/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-07-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jul 19 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  34. # [02:57] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 882767 from --- to FIXED.
  35. # [02:57] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 882767 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  36. # [02:57] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 882767 from --- to mozilla25.
  37. # [02:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=882767 nor, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, don't expose whitespace accessibles in context of grids
  38. # [03:01] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 890940 from --- to FIXED.
  39. # [03:01] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 890940 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  40. # [03:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890940 nor, --, mozilla25, maxli, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Visual bounds box is very wrong
  41. # [03:06] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 894844 from --- to FIXED.
  42. # [03:07] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 894844 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  43. # [03:07] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 894844 from --- to mozilla25.
  44. # [03:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=894844 nor, --, mozilla25, francesco.lodolo, RESO FIXED, Add localization comment to plural forms in AccessFu.properties
  45. # [03:08] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 882647.
  46. # [03:08] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 882647 from --- to FIXED.
  47. # [03:08] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 882647 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  48. # [03:08] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 882647 from --- to mozilla25.
  49. # [03:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=882647 nor, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, get rid of BOUNDARY_ATTRIBUTE_RANGE
  50. # [03:25] <@firebot> almasry.mina@gmail.com cancelled review?(neil@httl.net) for attachment 772725 on bug 291082.
  51. # [03:25] <@firebot> almasry.mina@gmail.com requested review from neil@httl.net for attachment 778198 on bug 291082.
  52. # [03:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, almasry.mina, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
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  77. # [08:35] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(eitan@monotonous. org) for attachment 777743 on bug 795957.
  78. # [08:35] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested feedback from eitan@monotonous. org for attachment 778320 on bug 795957.
  79. # [08:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795957 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Support live regions
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  97. # [11:09] <pvagner> eeejay: As Marco published the Firefox OS accessibility sneak peak video on youtube we non english speaking people started to wonder why eSpeak is not included. According to Marco there are legal issues. Do you know if there is something we might do about it?
  98. # [11:10] <pvagner> eeejay: I *think* Jonathan Duddington would be happy to see it usefull even running on Firefox OS. Perhaps there is a chance for some exclusive licencing to Firefox OS or a way for a compromise.
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  104. # [12:25] <Gijs> pvagner: you might want to talk to marcoz when he's back.
  105. # [12:25] <Gijs> (don't know if he knows more or not, but you could give it a shot, seeing as he made the video... :) )
  106. # [12:33] <marcoz> Gijs: pvagner: What was the question?
  107. # [12:33] <Gijs> <pvagner> eeejay: As Marco published the Firefox OS accessibility sneak peak video on youtube we non english speaking people started to wonder why eSpeak is not included. According to Marco there are legal issues. Do you know if there is something we might do about it?
  108. # [12:34] <Gijs> <pvagner> eejay: I *think* Jonathan Duddington would be happy to see it usefull even running on Firefox OS. Perhaps there is a chance for some exclusive licencing to Firefox OS or a way for a compromise.
  109. # [12:36] <Gijs> marcoz: ^^
  110. # [12:38] <marcoz> Gijs: Oh yeah, pvagner and I went over this on Twitter, too. AFAIK, there is a more involved problem with GPL-licensed components running with mozilla components in Firefox OS and otherwise, so a simple permission might not be sufficient. But since I'm not involved in these legal matters directly, I don't know more than that we evaluated it and had to shelve the idea.
  111. # [12:38] <marcoz> (I wish I found the bug again where this was all discussed.)
  112. # [12:38] <marcoz> But Bugzilla's search facilities fail me again.
  113. # [12:39] <Gijs> marcoz, pvagner: if this is important for non-English-speakers then it might be worth talking with gerv and mr. Duddington, if you didn't involve them already... :)
  114. # [12:39] * Gijs pokes for a bug
  115. # [12:39] * Gijs fails too
  116. # [12:39] <Gijs> gah, bugzilla, you suck
  117. # [12:40] <marcoz> Gijs: gerv was definitely involved. And Harvey Andersson, too IIRC.
  118. # [12:40] <Gijs> OK, well, then short of getting the owner of espeak to relicense, I suspect we might not be able to do much. :(
  119. # [12:41] <Gijs> And I think because of how MPL / free software works, it's not really possible to have some kind of "exclusive but more permissive license"; if it's free, it's free for everyone.
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  121. # [12:41] <Gijs> (free as in free software, not beer)
  122. # [12:41] <Gijs> (although, mmmmm, beer...)
  123. # [12:43] <Gijs> marcoz: bug 864984
  124. # [12:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=864984 is not accessible
  125. # [12:43] <Gijs> (but that's not accessible, sadly)
  126. # [12:43] <Gijs> dependent on bug 863174 which just has conclusions and lead-in
  127. # [12:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=863174 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add speech synthesis libraries to Gonk
  128. # [12:43] <Gijs> s/dependent on/blocks/
  129. # [12:47] <marcoz> Gijs: Thanks, I have access to that bug. Reading.
  130. # [12:55] <marcoz> Gijs: Oh yeah, shot off mail to Gerv cc'ing davidb and eeejay to see where we can take this, if at all. Prospects look rather pessimistic though. CC pvagner
  131. # [12:56] <Gijs> marcoz: well, I mean, if espeak would relicense to MIT, we'd all be sorted. ;)
  132. # [12:56] <Gijs> I doubt that'll actually happen though...
  133. # [13:10] <marcoz> Gijs: Yeah, usually the GPLV3 is chosen very consciously of the consequences, so re-licensing might indeed not be wanted.
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  141. # [14:19] <@davidb> heyo
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  144. # [14:29] <marcoz> Heyo davidb, yzen, maxli!
  145. # [14:29] <maxli> Hi marcoz!
  146. # [14:30] <@davidb> hey hi
  147. # [14:32] <yzen> marcoz: hi
  148. # [14:34] <yzen> marcoz: about to test my patch on the phone :)
  149. # [14:34] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted feedback for attachment 778320 on bug 795957.
  150. # [14:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795957 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Support live regions
  151. # [14:35] <marcoz> yzen: Nice!
  152. # [14:46] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted review for attachment 778198 on bug 291082.
  153. # [14:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, almasry.mina, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
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  156. # [15:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hey, how many text patches did you land in last couple days? orca really doesn't like the latest update :(
  157. # [15:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: almost everything
  158. # [15:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: investigate pls?
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  161. # [15:24] <marcoz> yzen: What's the current best way to compare tow strings? !(str1 === str2" or (str1 != str2) ?
  162. # [15:26] <yzen> marcoz: str1 !== str2 should work well
  163. # [15:27] <marcoz> yzen: Thanks!
  164. # [15:29] <yzen> marcoz: my android build failed for the 3rd time :(
  165. # [15:30] <yzen> can't test it just yet
  166. # [15:31] <marcoz> yzen: rm -rf objdir (whatever the name of your objdir is) and do an all-clean build. I had it happen to me this morning, too.
  167. # [15:32] <yzen> marcoz: ok giving it a try
  168. # [15:32] <yzen> thanks
  169. # [15:32] <Gijs> marcoz: so... is there a good mechanism in XUL to sort of "contain" the tab cycle?
  170. # [15:33] <Gijs> marcoz: so if you're tabbing around, I essentially want to say "constrain the set of focusable elements to descendants of this node", or, if that's simpler, "don't tab to any of the descendants of this other node"
  171. # [15:33] <Gijs> I know I could add manual keydown event handlers but that would make me sad.
  172. # [15:34] <Gijs> :)
  173. # [15:35] <marcoz> Gijs: Honestly, I have no idea.
  174. # [15:36] <marcoz> Gijs: Never had to deal with this question before.
  175. # [15:36] <Gijs> marcoz: OK. Do you know who I could ask/
  176. # [15:36] <Gijs> * ?
  177. # [15:36] <marcoz> Gijs: No, not really. Gavin might know.
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  183. # [15:49] <@firebot> almasry.mina@gmail.com requested review from neil@httl.net for attachment 778457 on bug 291082.
  184. # [15:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, almasry.mina, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
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  187. # [15:53] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted review for attachment 778457 on bug 291082.
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  190. # [16:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: btw, jamie said he observes line getting problems on nightly too, might be related
  191. # [16:21] <@marcoz> yzen: Do you have any idea, why the following JS snippet, added to the _addName function of outputGenerator, might cause an "* undefined " to be added to the string before the opening parenthesis and the contents of description?
  192. # [16:21] <@marcoz> let description = aAccessible.description;
  193. # [16:21] <@marcoz> if (description && (description !== name)) {
  194. # [16:21] <@marcoz> name = name + ' (' + description + ')';
  195. # [16:21] <@marcoz> }
  196. # [16:21] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  197. # [16:22] <yzen> looking
  198. # [16:22] <@marcoz> yzen: Oh, wait, I know why.
  199. # [16:22] <@marcoz> yzen: The link I was trying this with actually didn't get its name from the name, but from the sub tree.
  200. # [16:23] <@marcoz> yzen: So name *is* undefined in this case.
  201. # [16:24] <@marcoz> (but that means that my logic also falls over, because even though the name from sub tree and the description match, it'll not work. But I know how to fix this. :)
  202. # [16:25] <yzen> marcoz: cool :), are you adding support for descriptions ?
  203. # [16:33] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 291082.
  204. # [16:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, almasry.mina, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
  205. # [16:34] <@marcoz> yzen: I am. :)
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  207. # [16:50] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested feedback from yura.zenevich@gma il.com for attachment 778472 on bug 758675.
  208. # [16:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758675 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Speak accDescription if available
  209. # [16:58] <yzen> marcoz: still getting the same error on build :( even after removing objdir
  210. # [17:00] <@marcoz> yzen: Have you pulled inbound again? Perhaps the changeset you are at has a breakage.
  211. # [17:00] <yzen> marcoz: that's my last resort :)
  212. # [17:05] <@marcoz> eeejay: davidb|afk: yzen: maxli: Bwahaha, a German user on Twitter just thought our screen reader for Firefox OS was called Sneak Peak. He mistook the phrase for a name. And now that I come to think of it, Sneak Peak sounds kinda cool as a name for the screen reader, don't you think? :)
  213. # [17:06] <yzen> :)
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  217. # [17:17] <@marcoz> And I was just rightfully made aware that it should have been Sneak Peek in my video description, since to peek is what I wanted to say, not the peak of something. :)
  218. # [17:17] <@marcoz> Geez.
  219. # [17:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 888247.
  220. # [17:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888247 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, ARIA columnheader/rowheader shouldn't be selectable by default
  221. # [17:20] <yzen> marcoz: so in your description patch, if aAccessible.name is not there, description should not be added either?
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  223. # [17:24] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested feedback from eitan@monotonous. org for attachment 778487 on bug 886076.
  224. # [17:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
  225. # [17:27] <@marcoz> yzen: Right. It is more likely to have a name than a description anyway.
  226. # [17:28] <yzen> marcoz: ok got it
  227. # [17:28] <@marcoz> So if a description is present, but a name is not, something is very wrong, so we shouldn't try to confuse users by speaking the description.
  228. # [17:37] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 778472 on bug 758675.
  229. # [17:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758675 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Speak accDescription if available
  230. # [17:49] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  231. # [17:50] <@marcoz> yzen: I think your proposal actually does not do the same as my patch.
  232. # [17:50] <@marcoz> yzen: If I do as you suggest, and I have a link that has the name from sub tree, the name will be duplicated.
  233. # [17:51] <@marcoz> In my patch, I use the name only if it is actually being provided by the name. In the other cases, I add only the description and let the utterance be completed by the name from sub tree.
  234. # [17:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I suspect it was bug 882602 at fault, but finding regression ranges is tedious and annoying as usual
  235. # [17:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=882602 nor, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, clean up getText* line boundary code
  236. # [17:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it looked so innocent
  237. # [17:53] <@surkov> all tests passes
  238. # [17:53] <yzen> marcoz: interesting, i see what you're saying
  239. # [17:55] <@marcoz> yzen: I think I will keep the patch as I had it, add tests, and then ask for review. But that won't happen before Monday. :) Almost ready for the weekend.
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  242. # [18:01] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, who knows
  243. # [18:02] <yzen> marcoz: I added a a couple more comments, also, do we need to take INCLUDE_DESC flag into consideration?
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  245. # [18:06] <@marcoz> yzen: No, the description of acc.description and what we see as a description in the utterances are two different things. If I could, I would call accessible.description accessible.addendum instead.
  246. # [18:06] <yzen> marcoz: good to konw
  247. # [18:08] <@marcoz> OK, off for the weekend now. See you on Monday!
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  274. # [22:20] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled feedback?(eitan@monotonous. org) for attachment 778487 on bug 886076.
  275. # [22:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
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The end :)