/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-07-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jul 22 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  16. # [08:29] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 896326 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
  17. # [08:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896326 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Accessibility returns empty lines where there are embedded objects
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  28. # [11:22] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from eitan@monotonous.or g for attachment 779103 on bug 758675.
  29. # [11:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758675 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Speak accDescription if available
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  43. # [12:51] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 896400 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  44. # [12:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, ARIA role "tablist" is no longer an implicit live region
  45. # [12:55] <@marcoz> SteveF: Hi! Do you remember the history of why tablist was once considered an implicit live region, and when this was (rightfully) changed to be not one? We totally missed this change in Firefox until a community member found a problem with it.
  46. # [13:02] <SteveF> marcoz: hi, no idea see that in the ARIA ser agent implementation guide it says live region for tablist, but only in IA2 and ATK but not for others APIs
  47. # [13:02] <SteveF> seems silly anwyay
  48. # [13:06] <@marcoz> SteveF: Where does it say that explicitly? If you look in bug 896400, I linked to the roles model documentation, where it does not say that. And I think this should be correct. Also, if IA2 and ATK currently expect that, I'd lobby for not continuing that. Having all the tabs be babbled away by a screen reader just doesn't make sense.
  49. # [13:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, ARIA role "tablist" is no longer an implicit live region
  50. # [13:06] <@marcoz> (perhaps you could add that as a comment to that bug.)
  51. # [13:06] <SteveF> marcoz: sounds like one of dbolter's not so bright ideas :-)
  52. # [13:07] <SteveF> marcoz: in the role mapping table: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
  53. # [13:07] <SteveF> marcoz: sure will do
  54. # [13:07] <@marcoz> SteveF: Thanks!
  55. # [13:12] <SteveF> marcoz: done
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  57. # [13:20] <SteveF> marcoz: FYI looked back through mailing list discussion for tablist found no discussion on the live regions
  58. # [13:23] <@marcoz> SteveF: I have a feeling this is a very very old piece of documentation.
  59. # [13:24] <@marcoz> SteveF: Something that was added at a stage where we were all still finding our rhythm with this ARIA stuff.
  60. # [13:24] <SteveF> marcoz: right
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  78. # [15:15] <@marcoz> Holy cow! Already almost 840 people viewed my Firefox OS vide.
  79. # [15:15] <@marcoz> video.
  80. # [15:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: seems it was actually bug 882292 that broke orca, though I guess newer versions aren't effected since they don't use GetTextAfterOffset()
  81. # [15:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=882292 nor, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, getTextAfterOffset for line boundary on new rails
  82. # [15:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what should be simple test case is links just before comment box on bugs
  83. # [15:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: thank you, may I ask you to attach a small html page
  84. # [15:19] <@surkov> and it'd be great if you compare results :)
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  88. # [15:22] <@marcoz> Good morning yzen, maxli, surkov, tbsaunde, davidb__, eeejay! :)
  89. # [15:23] <yzen> marcoz: heya
  90. # [15:24] <davidb__> Heyo
  91. # [15:25] <@surkov> hey, marcoz
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  93. # [15:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: is there a way I can start domi with a given element focused?
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  97. # [15:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'm not aware of
  98. # [15:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: a11y tree has search function
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  100. # [15:33] <@tbsaunde> ugh
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  109. # [15:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, do you see a link need the comment field saying "expand all comments"?
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  113. # [16:07] <@marcoz> davidb: Ready?
  114. # [16:07] <@davidb> marcoz: yep
  115. # [16:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I do
  116. # [16:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that's the link I was talking about, but I don't see it in domi
  117. # [16:09] <@tbsaunde> I can find the div for adding comments I think but not that link
  118. # [16:09] <@surkov> hm
  119. # [16:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you don't see DOM node or accessible object?
  120. # [16:09] <@surkov> what tree do you use
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  124. # [16:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: is there a way to copy all the markup under a div?
  125. # [16:18] <@surkov> tbsaunde: context menu on selected item -> Copy XML
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  127. # [16:22] <@davidb> marcoz: resolved my distraction. want to chat again?
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  131. # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what if I want to get all the style stuff being applied?
  132. # [16:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: to see them?
  133. # [16:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you can go computed styles in right panel
  134. # [16:27] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah!
  135. # [16:27] <@davidb> ok
  136. # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: this doesn't seem broken in exactly the same way, but its still kind of busted http://paste.debian.net/17800/
  137. # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: at which elm and offset?
  138. # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: or you run it under orca?
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  140. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> surkov: just tested under orca, but the links are what's funny
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  142. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> I wonder if its just a different version of jamie's bug
  143. # [16:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it could be
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  145. # [16:44] <@davidb> marcoz: oh i did watch the whole video afterall
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  149. # [16:56] <@davidb> tbsaunde: heyo. is now good?
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  151. # [16:57] <@tbsaunde> davidb: guess so
  152. # [17:02] <@tbsaunde> davidb: where are you?
  153. # [17:19] <yzen> hi yes
  154. # [17:21] <@marcoz> Meeting in 5!
  155. # [17:24] <@davidb> there is a team squatting in finch. head to spadina
  156. # [17:24] <@davidb> maxli, surkov, tbsaunde ^
  157. # [17:25] <@tbsaunde> which is spadina?
  158. # [17:25] <@davidb> i'll show ya
  159. # [17:25] <@surkov> davidb: where should I go?
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  162. # [17:30] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings/2013-07-22#Agenda
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  176. # [18:12] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 778715 on bug 894485.
  177. # [18:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=894485 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Don't rely on roles and click listeners for default doAction()
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  193. # [18:57] <@eeejay> funny to find this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUqMgFo8A6g
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  197. # [19:27] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 777757 on bug 891338.
  198. # [19:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=891338 maj, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Popup accessibility broken
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  204. # [19:59] <@davidb> neat - we have a portland office
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  214. # [20:44] <yzen> eeejay: hey, tried my patch on an android device :)
  215. # [20:45] <yzen> eeejay: it talks but, it feels like there is need for hide and then show as replace not both..
  216. # [20:54] <@eeejay> yzen, that makes sense..
  217. # [20:56] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted feedback for attachment 778320 on bug 795957.
  218. # [20:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795957 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Support live regions
  219. # [20:58] <yzen> eeejay: do you have any suggestions of how to handle request, i can think of having a short timeout and waiting for a possible complimentary event ?
  220. # [20:59] <@eeejay> yzen, yeah. that sounds right
  221. # [20:59] <yzen> urght replace not request :)
  222. # [21:00] <yzen> eeejay: ok ill try that, do the test looks adequate or perhaps you were thinking of some other ones?
  223. # [21:03] <@firebot> six.dsn@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 779322 on bug 883672.
  224. # [21:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883672 nor, --, ---, six.dsn, ASSI, XULLinkAccessible should implement text interface similar to XULLabelAccessible
  225. # [21:04] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 788389 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  226. # [21:04] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 779323 on bug 788389.
  227. # [21:04] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 788389 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  228. # [21:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788389 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, fire statechange event whenever checked state is changed not depending on focused state
  229. # [21:16] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
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  233. # [21:28] <@davidb> maxli: you should feel free to pick up the odd C++ bug if you like… surkov knows the right ones.
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  236. # [21:29] <@surkov> davidb: maxli: or stuff that needs some investigation like using tools or some debugging
  237. # [21:30] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@FE64C181.EE680557.55FFA9B4.IP)
  238. # [21:37] <@eeejay> yzen, same ^ C++ is fun :)
  239. # [21:38] <yzen> eeejay: i was thinking of that too :), surkov anything you can recommend that i can start looking at in the meanwhile ?
  240. # [21:39] <@surkov> yzen: do you like a concrete bug? or you want to check by tools/debug?
  241. # [21:40] <@davidb> i recommend concrete
  242. # [21:40] <@davidb> surkov: what tools did you have in mind?
  243. # [21:40] <@surkov> yzen: for 2nd I can forward you an email for 1nd I need to search our bugzilla
  244. # [21:40] <@surkov> davidb: DOMi and accProbe
  245. # [21:40] <@surkov> sometimes AViewer
  246. # [21:40] <@davidb> ah
  247. # [21:40] <@surkov> that's what I use
  248. # [21:40] <@davidb> accProbe is java right?
  249. # [21:40] <@surkov> yes
  250. # [21:40] <@surkov> sometimes Rich observes different results than I
  251. # [21:40] <@davidb> aViewer is from TPG?
  252. # [21:40] <@surkov> right
  253. # [21:41] <@davidb> from SteveF I should say :)
  254. # [21:41] <@surkov> yep :)
  255. # [21:43] <yzen> surkov: i m fine with either, but perhaps davidb has a good point, concrete might be a good place to start
  256. # [21:43] <@surkov> yzen: btw, I have few layout text bugs that needs some debugging old code, might have not trivial fix. If you want it then I can drop you a link
  257. # [21:44] * @davidb giggles
  258. # [21:44] <@davidb> surkov: are you sending him somewhere to die?
  259. # [21:44] <@eeejay> maxli, has some motivation and understanding behind the text iface too
  260. # [21:44] <@surkov> yzen: ok, let me look (I get them a lot last time but usually I try to fix them fast so the queue is likely empty)
  261. # [21:44] <@eeejay> surkov, he is still young with a whole lifetime ahead of him :)
  262. # [21:44] <@surkov> davidb: yoda practiced a same thing ;)
  263. # [21:44] <@davidb> lol
  264. # [21:44] <yzen> lol
  265. # [21:45] <@surkov> all that don't kill us makes us stronger :)
  266. # [21:45] <@davidb> the force is strong with this one
  267. # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: itym full of fresh tender meat
  268. # [21:45] <@davidb> now i'm hungry
  269. # [21:45] <@eeejay> heh
  270. # [21:50] <@surkov> davidb: what do you want to do about bug 734983? it seems it's good and simple enough and needed for ARIA
  271. # [21:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734983 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Use element for mapping when ARIA role is abstract.
  272. # [21:50] <yzen> surkov: i can take a look at the layout text bug if that's ok
  273. # [21:51] <@surkov> yzen: this one (bug 872397) doesn't make me sleep at nights
  274. # [21:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872397 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, moving by words having @ char is inconsistent
  275. # [21:52] <@davidb> surkov: i wish we could wont fix it
  276. # [21:53] <@davidb> surkov: do you know how the group (rich) feels about it these days?
  277. # [21:53] <@surkov> davidb: I wish too, but up to you. I don't mind if we won't expose ARIA roles through MSAA role mechanism
  278. # [21:53] <@surkov> iirc everybody said they don't rely on it
  279. # [21:53] <@davidb> the bstr hack? yeah i can finish that off.
  280. # [21:53] <@surkov> davidb: they stopped pinging me but I thought because you agreed to fix it
  281. # [21:53] <@davidb> heh hmm
  282. # [21:54] <@davidb> ok i'll keep owning these for now
  283. # [21:54] <@surkov> ok
  284. # [21:54] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from dbolter@mozilla.c om on bug 734983.
  285. # [21:54] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  286. # [21:54] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from dbolter@mozilla.c om on bug 798492.
  287. # [21:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798492 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Deprecate/Remove our Windows MSAA BSTR accRole hack
  288. # [21:59] <@surkov> yzen: maxli the bug 690199) is a good one. If you want to pick up then go ahead. If you need ideas how to fix it then ping me
  289. # [21:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690199 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, ARIA select widget should expose focusable state regardless the way they manage its children
  290. # [22:00] <@surkov> yzen: I see you took that layout bug, thank you!
  291. # [22:00] <yzen> surkov: :)
  292. # [22:01] * @davidb needs to step out
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  296. # [22:04] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so we only get dom events for focused accessibles?
  297. # [22:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yes
  298. # [22:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'd say for user interactions only
  299. # [22:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: oh, huh, I would have thought thing.checked = true would fire a checkbox state changed event but whatever I guess
  300. # [22:08] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we listen different kind of DOM events
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  306. # [22:27] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted review for attachment 779103 on bug 758675.
  307. # [22:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758675 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Speak accDescription if available
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  310. # [22:28] <mib_qqdu5h> Anybody here have a guess as to why Firefox (22) isn't working with the JAWS (13) screen reader? None of the basic navigation keyboard commands are working for me.
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The end :)