/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-07-24 / end
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- # Session Start: Wed Jul 24 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [00:18] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted review for attachment 779986 on bug 886076.
- # [00:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
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- # [00:20] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 779986 on bug 886076.
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- # [02:43] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 887250 from --- to FIXED.
- # [02:43] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 887250 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [02:43] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 887250 from --- to mozilla25.
- # [02:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887250 nor, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, ARIA textbox role doesn't expose value
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- # [14:30] <SteveF> hey mozillians feedback on updated alt text advice in HTML appreciated http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt
- # [14:31] <SteveF> any comments please file a bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?comment=&product=HTML%20WG&component=HTML5%20spec
- # [14:36] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 896400 from --- to FIXED.
- # [14:36] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 896400 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [14:37] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 896400 from --- to mozilla25.
- # [14:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400 nor, --, mozilla25, marco.zehe, RESO FIXED, ARIA role "tablist" should no longer be an implicit live region
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- # [14:41] <@davidb> heyo
- # [14:41] <@davidb> i'm about to be away from irc for the day
- # [14:43] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
- # [14:45] <@tbsaunde> mjorning
- # [14:46] <@marcoz> Morning tbsaunde! :)
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- # [14:53] <Six> surkov: hi
- # [14:53] <Six> surkov: i might have found something
- # [14:53] <@surkov> hey, Six
- # [14:53] <@surkov> cool
- # [14:54] <Six> surkov: is <label id="lalbel">hello</label> equivalent to <label id="label" value="label" />
- # [14:54] <Six> surkov: ?
- # [14:54] <Six> sorry
- # [14:54] <Six> value="hello" />
- # [14:55] <@surkov> Six: sort of, depending how you define equivalence
- # [14:55] <@surkov> from implementation point of view they aren't equivalent
- # [15:00] <Six> surkov: because here: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_label.xul#166 if i put: <label id="label" value="hello"/> the test won't work...
- # [15:00] <Six> surkov: what is there impl difference? not the same object?
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- # [15:01] <@surkov> Six: whole XULLinkAccessible is supposed to handle label@value case, otherwise we wouldn't need this class in general
- # [15:03] <Six> surkov: so the behaviour in the test should be the same right?
- # [15:03] <@surkov> Six: I'm not sure, should be the same at some precision
- # [15:03] <@surkov> but mutations might be a bit different
- # [15:04] <Six> surkov: ok i will continue to investigate :)
- # [15:04] <@surkov> Six: you'd need to figure out which test doesn't work and why
- # [15:04] <Six> surkov: yup wiil do
- # [15:04] <@surkov> cool
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- # [15:23] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from enndeakin@gmail.c om on bug 782547.
- # [15:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782547 nor, --, ---, enndeakin, NEW, Accessible focus not fired after dismissing modal OS dialogs (e.g. file chooser and print dialogs)
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- # [15:30] <@marcoz> maxli: Hi! Cool patch in bug 886076! this should also be of great value to Firefox OS that Pivot can navigate the granularities. :)
- # [15:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
- # [15:31] <maxli> marcoz: Thanks!
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- # [16:03] <yzen> surkov: morning. while writing the tests for the hidden live region attrs, i realized i can't get hold of the accessible for the hidden element… does it mean it should be visible first so i could get a reference to it ?
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- # [16:04] <@surkov> yzen: you can hold a reference on accessible but when it's shutdown then it's defuct and basically all you have is its address
- # [16:04] <@surkov> not sure if I answered question though
- # [16:05] <yzen> surkov: ya that's what i was thinking, so in the live regions support for accessfu tests, it is available since i have the accessible event (hide)
- # [16:05] <yzen> surkov: by then it isn't, right?
- # [16:05] <yzen> isn't yet defunct that is
- # [16:07] <@surkov> yes, you get hide event right before the accessible is shtudown
- # [16:12] <yzen> surkov: so, perhaps I should test it as such: get hold of the accessible on hide event and verify that the live attributes are present ?
- # [16:12] <@surkov> yzen: right
- # [16:15] <yzen> surkov: sounds good, thanks
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- # [16:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 890353 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [16:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890353 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, move get text for line boundary tests into separate file
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- # [17:16] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 776654 on bug 894573.
- # [17:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=894573 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, ARIA state mapping should treat undefined value same way if value was missed
- # [17:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so option in select doesn't get checked state if its selected?
- # [17:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think it gets selected state, no?
- # [17:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: presumably
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- # [17:34] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 779323 on bug 788389.
- # [17:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788389 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, fire statechange event whenever checked state is changed not depending on focused state
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- # [17:44] <@marcoz> eeejay: Hi there! :)
- # [17:44] <@marcoz> eeejay: Was my reply in bug 895711 OK?
- # [17:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=895711 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Sending NS_TOUCH_START events through HandleEventWithTarget silently fails to reach content
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- # [18:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: say again how do you build mozilla?
- # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: usually run autoconf then configure then make, but I'm kind of weird :)
- # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what's up?
- # [18:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I want to try go away from 'mach' command
- # [18:08] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, what's usual way via make?
- # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: make -f client.mk?
- # [18:08] <@surkov> so it sill works then
- # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> I haven't tried but I believe so
- # [18:09] <@surkov> ok
- # [18:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it doesn't
- # [18:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how does it fail?
- # [18:09] <@surkov> it says to use 'mach build' :)
- # [18:09] <@surkov> it says that pymake is required on windows
- # [18:10] <@surkov> and I need to use mach
- # [18:10] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
- # [18:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: oh, I guess on windows you need python build/pymake/make.py -f client.mk maybe?
- # [18:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: seems so
- # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: thinking about lunch?
- # [18:16] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it'd be good
- # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ideas where you want to eat?
- # [18:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think I'm flexible
- # [18:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: until you have options with buckwheat :)
- # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> how is pasta? I want something that doesn't require much chewing
- # [18:18] <@surkov> tbsaunde: sounds good
- # [18:18] <@surkov> when you want to go?
- # [18:18] <@tbsaunde> soonish, I'm ready whenever
- # [18:18] <@surkov> do you know a place to go?
- # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> yeah, there's a place a little up spadina
- # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> just past richmond
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- # [18:31] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 897533 filed by emorley@mozilla.com.
- # [18:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=897533 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent hittest/test_zoom.html | application timed out after 330 seconds with no output
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- # [19:39] <@firebot> enndeakin@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(enndeakin@gmail.c om) on bug 782547.
- # [19:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782547 nor, --, ---, enndeakin, NEW, Accessible focus not fired after dismissing modal OS dialogs (e.g. file chooser and print dialogs)
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- # [20:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 893812 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [20:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 780519 on bug 893812.
- # [20:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=893812 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, tweak document shutdown order
- # [20:25] <@tbsaunde> u should change ProcessInvalidationList() to also fire focus events
- # [20:26] <@tbsaunde> err, I wonder if you should
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- # [20:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: invalidation list shouldn't have focus
- # [20:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hm, why are you so sure?
- # [20:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because it contains originally inaccessible nodes
- # [20:31] <@surkov> all focusable are accessible
- # [20:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I thought it also had things that were accessible but need new type of accessible
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- # [20:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: these are proceeded as remove/insert pair
- # [20:33] <@surkov> iirc
- # [20:33] <@surkov> :)
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- # [21:06] <maxli> surkov: ping
- # [21:06] <@surkov> maxli: pong
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- # [21:08] <maxli> surkov: with respect to bug 690199, if the roles should always have focusable state, why can't I add the state to ARIAMap instead of doing what you said in the comment?
- # [21:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690199 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, ARIA select widget should expose focusable state regardless the way they manage its children
- # [21:09] <@surkov> maxli: I think if they are disabled then they shouldn't be really focusable
- # [21:10] <@surkov> so it was just criteria to detect whether it needs to be focusable
- # [21:13] <@surkov> it's longer in implementation but it's simpler to estimate an effect of the change
- # [21:13] <@surkov> since we fix exactly what we were asked for
- # [21:16] <@surkov> maxli: but probably you're right
- # [21:17] <@surkov> we may keep faceable and disabled states both
- # [21:18] <@surkov> so the idea to turn focusable state into permanent state
- # [21:18] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have opinion? ^
- # [21:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: not off hand
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- # [21:20] <@tbsaunde> I'm not sure what exxactly say <input disabled> dos without checking the spec
- # [21:20] <@surkov> SteveF: ? ^
- # [21:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I can go read the spec myself just being lazy and need to read bug too since haven't been paying atention
- # [21:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: which spec?
- # [21:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: html
- # [21:24] <@surkov> a11y is a bit different matter
- # [21:24] <@surkov> in case of focusability
- # [21:25] <@surkov> I'm just thinking if we were exposed focusable state on all ARIA listboxes then would it harm AT if say it's a broken listobx or having no items or disabled listbox
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- # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so I'm a little confused what the problem with what we do today is
- # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> or atleast if I was going to fix it I think I would make widget with active descendant not focusable maybe
- # [21:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: AT ignores not focusable list boxes, if you manage the focus on items directly then AT won't see your listbox
- # [21:30] <@tbsaunde> so they assume things that aren't focusable themselves can't have focus inside them?
- # [21:30] <@tbsaunde> that seems kind of broken
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- # [21:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: given html 4.10.19.4 if you can't click on it or its descendants then you probably shouldn't be able to focus it or its kid either
- # [21:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: only in case of some widgets list listbox
- # [21:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why do screen readers do that? as in why shouldn't they change what they do?
- # [21:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: the problem goes that UL and select@size>1 has the same MSAA role and thus AT used focusble state to determ whether this is a listbox or plain list
- # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but couldn't ul be focusable but not acting as select?
- # [21:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: probably you could
- # [21:39] <@surkov> I don't really know how AT work
- # [21:39] <@surkov> I think they build from if/elses
- # [21:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: besides if web author wants to simulate select shouldn't they make ul focusable and then use aria-selected on children to manage which element of "select" is selected?
- # [21:41] <@tbsaunde> because iirc that would be way to get same events / states
- # [21:41] <@tbsaunde> otherwise you would get children being focused, but select uses selected state not focused I thought
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- # [22:00] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 780559 on bug 886076.
- # [22:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
- # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, if you want to talk I can come over, but I guess fixing this is sort of reasonable, but I think I'd rather do it in Accessible class than have aria state map also invloved in focus, we already have too much stuff that effects focus
- # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> (maybe it would be nice to have function FOcusMgr::IsFocusable(Accessssible*) but I'm not sure
- # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> might be hard to make that not slow
- # [22:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why to not apply a permanent state in aria map?
- # [22:03] <@surkov> if we talk about permanent state approach?
- # [22:04] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well I think thinks that have disabled or aria-disabled attribute shouldn't be focusable
- # [22:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: like ARIA role list that has permeant linked state
- # [22:05] <@surkov> that'd be consistent to HTML widgets I think but
- # [22:05] <@surkov> look at Accessible::ApplyARIAState
- # [22:05] <@surkov> if state is focusable and its container has aria-disabled then we just add unavailable state
- # [22:05] <@surkov> so focusable and unavailable may go together
- # [22:06] <@surkov> which is probably weird
- # [22:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think the aria spec is fairly clear that aria-disabled things and they're descendants aren't interactible and don't need to be focusable
- # [22:06] <@surkov> probably we have a bug
- # [22:07] <@surkov> or probably we don't want to override native focusable state
- # [22:07] <@surkov> by aria-disabled
- # [22:07] <@surkov> in either case tbsaunde we could have FocusableUntilDisabled in ARIA state map
- # [22:07] <@surkov> why would we move that into Accessible class
- # [22:07] <@surkov> (because it seems we tried to do oppsite thing)
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- # [22:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd claim if you make something aria-disabled but it can still get focus that's an author
- # [22:09] <@surkov> I
- # [22:09] <@surkov> I'd agree :)
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- # [22:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess ARIAStateMap stuff is fine, focusability is too spread out already, whatever
- # [22:10] <@tbsaunde> *but whatever
- # [22:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so focusable until disabled approach?
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- # [22:12] <@tbsaunde> I guess
- # [22:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how exactly would it work?
- # [22:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: add FocusableUntilDisabled ARIA state, then check aria-disabled if not presented then expose focusable
- # [22:13] <@surkov> good?
- # [22:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, aria-descendant makes kids aria-disabled so you need to climb tree which APLyARIAState() already does...
- # [22:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so what is suggestion?
- # [22:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: maybe stick more crap in ApplyARIAState()
- # [22:17] <@tbsaunde> or maybe we could always rm focusable state if aria-disabled and then do perminant state thing
- # [22:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: like roles comparions?
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- # [22:18] <@surkov> maxli: how did you want to fix it?
- # [22:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think I like perminant state and then change ApplyARIAState() to rm focusable if aria-disabled
- # [22:19] <@tbsaunde> oh, arg I've been thiking about kids not widget itself
- # [22:20] <@tbsaunde> then I guess we don't have this problem and focusable until unavialable is fine
- # [22:20] <@tbsaunde> unless you care about <div aria-disabled=true><ul><li tabindex=x>... which assert is stupid
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- # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so the other thing is that focusable until editable has to look over entire subtree right? isn't that going to be slow?
- # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> can we cache kids being focusable?
- # [22:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we should be smart and do not start processing if listbox is already focusable
- # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> true
- # [22:25] <@surkov> and then perhaps we should rely on widget interface?
- # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how?
- # [22:25] <@surkov> good question :)
- # [22:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: CurrentItem() would be good if it we make it working
- # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but what if there is no current item because widget isn't focused?
- # [22:27] <@surkov> tbsaunde: CurrentItem() is supposed to return an item which will be focused if the widget receive focus
- # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> I suspect the case it should be focusable won't be bad we'll find a focusable kid quickly, but the no focusable kid case worries me
- # [22:27] <@surkov> at least that's what comment says
- # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> ah, guess I should learn to go read docs :p
- # [22:28] <@surkov> but can't we just apply focusable state if there's no aria-disabled?
- # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: does that make sense?
- # [22:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: seems so, why not?
- # [22:30] <@surkov> at least it's simple
- # [22:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: let me check meaning of roles
- # [22:33] <@surkov> ok
- # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I guess always focusable unless disabled makes sense for those roles
- # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> sorry that took so long :(
- # [22:36] <@surkov> ok, cool
- # [22:37] <@surkov> maxli: are you fine with that?
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- # [22:40] <maxli> surkov: looks ok
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- # [22:41] <@surkov> cool
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- # [22:51] <maxli> surkov: what's a case where both a node and its parent aren't hypertexts?
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- # [22:51] <@surkov> maxli: tr and table
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- # [23:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think I'm getting close to xbl stuff working
- # [23:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: awesome
- # [23:20] <@tbsaunde> turns out one binding does quiet just return a constnat, but I think pulling the logic for image binding into a11y code to give it tooltip accessible will be fine
- # [23:20] <@surkov> you hate xbl already, right? :)
- # [23:21] <@tbsaunde> well I wouldn't say I like it :)
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- # [23:23] <@surkov> ok, going home
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- # [23:33] <satdav> davidb|pto, it was for the people who dont know about accessibility
- # [23:34] <satdav> can you or marco please do a accessibility brown bag
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- # [23:52] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 780559 on bug 886076.
- # [23:52] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 780611 on bug 886076.
- # [23:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
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- # Session Close: Thu Jul 25 00:00:00 2013
The end :)