/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-07-24 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Jul 24 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:11] * Quits: Gijs (gijs@moz-C11B0461.dsl.alice.nl) (Quit: sleep)
  4. # [00:13] * Quits: fxa (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com) (Ping timeout)
  5. # [00:15] * Joins: maxli (maxli@B5559308.9C54E60.2FA4EA88.IP)
  6. # [00:16] * Joins: fxa90id_ (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com)
  7. # [00:16] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-48F8F110.tmodns.net)
  8. # [00:18] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted review for attachment 779986 on bug 886076.
  9. # [00:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
  10. # [00:18] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-48F8F110.tmodns.net) (Ping timeout)
  11. # [00:20] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 779986 on bug 886076.
  12. # [00:21] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@C594030C.7B78A399.55FFA9B4.IP) (Quit: Téléportation !)
  13. # [00:21] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  14. # [00:21] * fxa90id_ is now known as fxa
  15. # [00:28] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  16. # [00:28] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-B51E1692.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  17. # [00:29] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-B51E1692.austin.res.rr.com)
  18. # [00:47] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  19. # [00:51] * Quits: maxli (maxli@B5559308.9C54E60.2FA4EA88.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  20. # [00:52] * Quits: nhirata (anonymous@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Ping timeout)
  21. # [00:53] * Quits: fxa (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com) (Ping timeout)
  22. # [00:56] * khuey|mtg is now known as khuey
  23. # [00:59] * Joins: nhirata (anonymous@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  24. # [01:07] * Joins: maxli (maxli@B5559308.9C54E60.2FA4EA88.IP)
  25. # [01:19] * Quits: Mic (Mic@moz-DDC42322.superkabel.de) (Quit: Instantbird -- http://www.instantbird.com)
  26. # [01:45] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com)
  27. # [02:04] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net)
  28. # [02:12] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  29. # [02:19] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  30. # [02:37] * Quits: yzen (yzen@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP) (Ping timeout)
  31. # [02:37] * Joins: yzen (yzen@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP)
  32. # [02:40] * Quits: nhirata (anonymous@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  33. # [02:43] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 887250 from --- to FIXED.
  34. # [02:43] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 887250 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  35. # [02:43] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 887250 from --- to mozilla25.
  36. # [02:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887250 nor, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, ARIA textbox role doesn't expose value
  37. # [02:47] * Quits: maxli (maxli@B5559308.9C54E60.2FA4EA88.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  38. # [02:49] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net)
  39. # [03:21] * Quits: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com) (Ping timeout)
  40. # [03:30] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  41. # [03:45] * Joins: blackkbot (blackkbot@moz-C8D2E62B.austin.res.rr.com)
  42. # [03:46] * Parts: blackkbot (blackkbot@moz-C8D2E62B.austin.res.rr.com)
  43. # [03:51] * Quits: kborchers (kborchers@moz-ADF30951.nap.wideopenwest.com) (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
  44. # [03:52] * Joins: kborchers (kborchers@moz-ADF30951.nap.wideopenwest.com)
  45. # [04:03] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com)
  46. # [04:09] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  47. # [04:38] * Quits: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com) (Ping timeout)
  48. # [04:57] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com)
  49. # [05:01] * Quits: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  50. # [05:01] * Joins: fxa (fxa@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com)
  51. # [05:06] * Joins: nhirata (anonymous@moz-FFD0C11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  52. # [05:24] * Quits: fxa (fxa@moz-3DACD1A4.nvidia.com) (Ping timeout)
  53. # [05:26] * Quits: Jesse (jruderman@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
  54. # [05:58] * Joins: Jesse (jruderman@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  55. # [06:14] * Quits: Jesse (jruderman@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: Jesse)
  56. # [06:16] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  57. # [06:51] * Joins: Jesse (jruderman@moz-537BCF9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  58. # [07:11] * Joins: aja (Instantbir@CA596B.81FB346A.7880DB15.IP)
  59. # [07:44] * Quits: yzen (yzen@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP) (Quit: yzen)
  60. # [08:00] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  61. # [08:29] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@C594030C.7B78A399.55FFA9B4.IP)
  62. # [08:46] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@C594030C.7B78A399.55FFA9B4.IP) (Ping timeout)
  63. # [09:16] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  64. # [09:25] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  65. # [09:29] * Parts: aja (Instantbir@CA596B.81FB346A.7880DB15.IP)
  66. # [09:34] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  67. # [09:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +o marcoz
  68. # [09:56] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  69. # [09:59] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  70. # [10:00] * Quits: ivan (ivan@moz-531C3EC9.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout)
  71. # [10:17] * Joins: ivan (ivan@moz-531C3EC9.members.linode.com)
  72. # [10:35] * Joins: Gijs (gijs@moz-C11B0461.dsl.alice.nl)
  73. # [10:41] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@2BFFE0C9.74C6FD40.360EF119.IP)
  74. # [10:54] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@2BFFE0C9.74C6FD40.360EF119.IP) (Quit: Téléportation !)
  75. # [11:02] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
  76. # [11:12] * Joins: Mic (Mic@moz-C3CB3403.superkabel.de)
  77. # [11:32] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  78. # [11:38] * Quits: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout)
  79. # [11:39] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@2BFFE0C9.74C6FD40.360EF119.IP)
  80. # [12:07] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  81. # [12:09] * Quits: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout)
  82. # [13:07] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  83. # [13:09] * Quits: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout)
  84. # [13:20] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net)
  85. # [13:21] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  86. # [13:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o marcoz
  87. # [13:44] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@2BFFE0C9.74C6FD40.360EF119.IP) (Quit: Téléportation !)
  88. # [13:56] * Joins: Six (Mibbit@4635A996.8273A320.BA2F4534.IP)
  89. # [13:57] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  90. # [14:03] * Quits: Six (Mibbit@4635A996.8273A320.BA2F4534.IP) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  91. # [14:05] * Joins: Six (Mibbit@A5E9A8DB.6FAE963A.BA2F4534.IP)
  92. # [14:08] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client exited)
  93. # [14:12] * Quits: brambles (xymox@moz-969AAE9B.barwen.ch) (Ping timeout)
  94. # [14:12] * Joins: brambles (xymox@moz-969AAE9B.barwen.ch)
  95. # [14:14] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
  96. # [14:16] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  97. # [14:18] * Joins: maxli (maxli@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  98. # [14:19] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  99. # [14:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o marcoz
  100. # [14:30] <SteveF> hey mozillians feedback on updated alt text advice in HTML appreciated http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt
  101. # [14:31] <SteveF> any comments please file a bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?comment=&product=HTML%20WG&component=HTML5%20spec
  102. # [14:36] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 896400 from --- to FIXED.
  103. # [14:36] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 896400 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  104. # [14:37] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 896400 from --- to mozilla25.
  105. # [14:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400 nor, --, mozilla25, marco.zehe, RESO FIXED, ARIA role "tablist" should no longer be an implicit live region
  106. # [14:38] * Joins: davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  107. # [14:38] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  108. # [14:40] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  109. # [14:41] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  110. # [14:41] <@davidb> heyo
  111. # [14:41] <@davidb> i'm about to be away from irc for the day
  112. # [14:43] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  113. # [14:45] <@tbsaunde> mjorning
  114. # [14:46] <@marcoz> Morning tbsaunde! :)
  115. # [14:48] * Joins: surkov (surkov@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  116. # [14:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  117. # [14:53] <Six> surkov: hi
  118. # [14:53] <Six> surkov: i might have found something
  119. # [14:53] <@surkov> hey, Six
  120. # [14:53] <@surkov> cool
  121. # [14:54] <Six> surkov: is <label id="lalbel">hello</label> equivalent to <label id="label" value="label" />
  122. # [14:54] <Six> surkov: ?
  123. # [14:54] <Six> sorry
  124. # [14:54] <Six> value="hello" />
  125. # [14:55] <@surkov> Six: sort of, depending how you define equivalence
  126. # [14:55] <@surkov> from implementation point of view they aren't equivalent
  127. # [15:00] <Six> surkov: because here: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_label.xul#166 if i put: <label id="label" value="hello"/> the test won't work...
  128. # [15:00] <Six> surkov: what is there impl difference? not the same object?
  129. # [15:00] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP)
  130. # [15:01] <@surkov> Six: whole XULLinkAccessible is supposed to handle label@value case, otherwise we wouldn't need this class in general
  131. # [15:03] <Six> surkov: so the behaviour in the test should be the same right?
  132. # [15:03] <@surkov> Six: I'm not sure, should be the same at some precision
  133. # [15:03] <@surkov> but mutations might be a bit different
  134. # [15:04] <Six> surkov: ok i will continue to investigate :)
  135. # [15:04] <@surkov> Six: you'd need to figure out which test doesn't work and why
  136. # [15:04] <Six> surkov: yup wiil do
  137. # [15:04] <@surkov> cool
  138. # [15:08] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP) (Ping timeout)
  139. # [15:17] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP)
  140. # [15:22] * Joins: yzen (yzen@C8A3A5EA.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP)
  141. # [15:23] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from enndeakin@gmail.c om on bug 782547.
  142. # [15:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782547 nor, --, ---, enndeakin, NEW, Accessible focus not fired after dismissing modal OS dialogs (e.g. file chooser and print dialogs)
  143. # [15:24] * Quits: yzen (yzen@C8A3A5EA.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  144. # [15:27] * Joins: yzen (yzen@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  145. # [15:30] <@marcoz> maxli: Hi! Cool patch in bug 886076! this should also be of great value to Firefox OS that Pivot can navigate the granularities. :)
  146. # [15:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
  147. # [15:31] <maxli> marcoz: Thanks!
  148. # [15:43] * Quits: nhirata (anonymous@moz-FFD0C11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  149. # [15:50] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  150. # [16:03] <yzen> surkov: morning. while writing the tests for the hidden live region attrs, i realized i can't get hold of the accessible for the hidden element… does it mean it should be visible first so i could get a reference to it ?
  151. # [16:03] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  152. # [16:04] <@surkov> yzen: you can hold a reference on accessible but when it's shutdown then it's defuct and basically all you have is its address
  153. # [16:04] <@surkov> not sure if I answered question though
  154. # [16:05] <yzen> surkov: ya that's what i was thinking, so in the live regions support for accessfu tests, it is available since i have the accessible event (hide)
  155. # [16:05] <yzen> surkov: by then it isn't, right?
  156. # [16:05] <yzen> isn't yet defunct that is
  157. # [16:07] <@surkov> yes, you get hide event right before the accessible is shtudown
  158. # [16:12] <yzen> surkov: so, perhaps I should test it as such: get hold of the accessible on hide event and verify that the live attributes are present ?
  159. # [16:12] <@surkov> yzen: right
  160. # [16:15] <yzen> surkov: sounds good, thanks
  161. # [16:35] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  162. # [16:51] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP) (Ping timeout)
  163. # [16:53] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  164. # [16:53] * khuey is now known as khuey|caltrain
  165. # [16:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 890353 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  166. # [16:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890353 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, move get text for line boundary tests into separate file
  167. # [16:59] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  168. # [17:10] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  169. # [17:12] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  170. # [17:13] * Quits: Mic (Mic@moz-C3CB3403.superkabel.de) (Quit: Instantbird -- http://www.instantbird.com)
  171. # [17:13] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  172. # [17:16] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 776654 on bug 894573.
  173. # [17:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=894573 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, ARIA state mapping should treat undefined value same way if value was missed
  174. # [17:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so option in select doesn't get checked state if its selected?
  175. # [17:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think it gets selected state, no?
  176. # [17:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: presumably
  177. # [17:31] * Quits: Six (Mibbit@A5E9A8DB.6FAE963A.BA2F4534.IP) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  178. # [17:34] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 779323 on bug 788389.
  179. # [17:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788389 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, fire statechange event whenever checked state is changed not depending on focused state
  180. # [17:36] * khuey|caltrain is now known as khuey
  181. # [17:36] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  182. # [17:44] <@marcoz> eeejay: Hi there! :)
  183. # [17:44] <@marcoz> eeejay: Was my reply in bug 895711 OK?
  184. # [17:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=895711 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Sending NS_TOUCH_START events through HandleEventWithTarget silently fails to reach content
  185. # [17:54] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-673CB498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
  186. # [17:58] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  187. # [18:00] * Joins: nhirata (anonymous@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  188. # [18:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: say again how do you build mozilla?
  189. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: usually run autoconf then configure then make, but I'm kind of weird :)
  190. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what's up?
  191. # [18:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I want to try go away from 'mach' command
  192. # [18:08] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, what's usual way via make?
  193. # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: make -f client.mk?
  194. # [18:08] <@surkov> so it sill works then
  195. # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> I haven't tried but I believe so
  196. # [18:09] <@surkov> ok
  197. # [18:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it doesn't
  198. # [18:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how does it fail?
  199. # [18:09] <@surkov> it says to use 'mach build' :)
  200. # [18:09] <@surkov> it says that pymake is required on windows
  201. # [18:10] <@surkov> and I need to use mach
  202. # [18:10] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  203. # [18:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: oh, I guess on windows you need python build/pymake/make.py -f client.mk maybe?
  204. # [18:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: seems so
  205. # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: thinking about lunch?
  206. # [18:16] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it'd be good
  207. # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ideas where you want to eat?
  208. # [18:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think I'm flexible
  209. # [18:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: until you have options with buckwheat :)
  210. # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> how is pasta? I want something that doesn't require much chewing
  211. # [18:18] <@surkov> tbsaunde: sounds good
  212. # [18:18] <@surkov> when you want to go?
  213. # [18:18] <@tbsaunde> soonish, I'm ready whenever
  214. # [18:18] <@surkov> do you know a place to go?
  215. # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> yeah, there's a place a little up spadina
  216. # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> just past richmond
  217. # [18:26] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP)
  218. # [18:28] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5A4BE8E8.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  219. # [18:31] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 897533 filed by emorley@mozilla.com.
  220. # [18:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=897533 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent hittest/test_zoom.html | application timed out after 330 seconds with no output
  221. # [18:32] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP) (Ping timeout)
  222. # [18:52] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP)
  223. # [18:53] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  224. # [18:54] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP) (Ping timeout)
  225. # [19:00] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP)
  226. # [19:12] * Quits: rednaks (rednaks@84B70D91.CFC45698.6D8B4AB5.IP) (Ping timeout)
  227. # [19:14] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  228. # [19:18] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  229. # [19:31] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  230. # [19:37] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  231. # [19:39] <@firebot> enndeakin@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(enndeakin@gmail.c om) on bug 782547.
  232. # [19:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782547 nor, --, ---, enndeakin, NEW, Accessible focus not fired after dismissing modal OS dialogs (e.g. file chooser and print dialogs)
  233. # [19:45] * Quits: yzen (yzen@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: yzen)
  234. # [19:46] * Quits: Jesse (jruderman@moz-537BCF9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
  235. # [19:47] * Joins: Jesse_ (jruderman@moz-537BCF9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  236. # [19:54] * Quits: maxli (maxli@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  237. # [19:55] * Joins: maxli (maxli@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  238. # [19:55] * Quits: maxli (maxli@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  239. # [19:56] * Joins: maxli (maxli@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  240. # [20:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 893812 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  241. # [20:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 780519 on bug 893812.
  242. # [20:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=893812 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, tweak document shutdown order
  243. # [20:25] <@tbsaunde> u should change ProcessInvalidationList() to also fire focus events
  244. # [20:26] <@tbsaunde> err, I wonder if you should
  245. # [20:27] * Joins: yzen (yzen@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP)
  246. # [20:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: invalidation list shouldn't have focus
  247. # [20:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hm, why are you so sure?
  248. # [20:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because it contains originally inaccessible nodes
  249. # [20:31] <@surkov> all focusable are accessible
  250. # [20:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I thought it also had things that were accessible but need new type of accessible
  251. # [20:33] * Quits: maxli (maxli@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  252. # [20:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: these are proceeded as remove/insert pair
  253. # [20:33] <@surkov> iirc
  254. # [20:33] <@surkov> :)
  255. # [20:34] * Joins: maxli (maxli@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  256. # [20:47] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@7EA800E4.67625325.D111398B.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  257. # [20:52] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  258. # [20:53] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  259. # [20:53] * Quits: Gijs (gijs@moz-C11B0461.dsl.alice.nl) (Quit: poof)
  260. # [20:58] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5A4BE8E8.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: lizzard)
  261. # [20:59] * Quits: a-865 (fmcz@moz-8F21088B.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.20/20130708004437])
  262. # [21:06] <maxli> surkov: ping
  263. # [21:06] <@surkov> maxli: pong
  264. # [21:08] * Joins: a-865 (fmcz@moz-8F21088B.cable.mindspring.com)
  265. # [21:08] <maxli> surkov: with respect to bug 690199, if the roles should always have focusable state, why can't I add the state to ARIAMap instead of doing what you said in the comment?
  266. # [21:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690199 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, ARIA select widget should expose focusable state regardless the way they manage its children
  267. # [21:09] <@surkov> maxli: I think if they are disabled then they shouldn't be really focusable
  268. # [21:10] <@surkov> so it was just criteria to detect whether it needs to be focusable
  269. # [21:13] <@surkov> it's longer in implementation but it's simpler to estimate an effect of the change
  270. # [21:13] <@surkov> since we fix exactly what we were asked for
  271. # [21:16] <@surkov> maxli: but probably you're right
  272. # [21:17] <@surkov> we may keep faceable and disabled states both
  273. # [21:18] <@surkov> so the idea to turn focusable state into permanent state
  274. # [21:18] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have opinion? ^
  275. # [21:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: not off hand
  276. # [21:20] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@7EA800E4.67625325.D111398B.IP)
  277. # [21:20] <@tbsaunde> I'm not sure what exxactly say <input disabled> dos without checking the spec
  278. # [21:20] <@surkov> SteveF: ? ^
  279. # [21:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I can go read the spec myself just being lazy and need to read bug too since haven't been paying atention
  280. # [21:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: which spec?
  281. # [21:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: html
  282. # [21:24] <@surkov> a11y is a bit different matter
  283. # [21:24] <@surkov> in case of focusability
  284. # [21:25] <@surkov> I'm just thinking if we were exposed focusable state on all ARIA listboxes then would it harm AT if say it's a broken listobx or having no items or disabled listbox
  285. # [21:26] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  286. # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so I'm a little confused what the problem with what we do today is
  287. # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> or atleast if I was going to fix it I think I would make widget with active descendant not focusable maybe
  288. # [21:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: AT ignores not focusable list boxes, if you manage the focus on items directly then AT won't see your listbox
  289. # [21:30] <@tbsaunde> so they assume things that aren't focusable themselves can't have focus inside them?
  290. # [21:30] <@tbsaunde> that seems kind of broken
  291. # [21:31] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  292. # [21:31] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  293. # [21:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: given html 4.10.19.4 if you can't click on it or its descendants then you probably shouldn't be able to focus it or its kid either
  294. # [21:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: only in case of some widgets list listbox
  295. # [21:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why do screen readers do that? as in why shouldn't they change what they do?
  296. # [21:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: the problem goes that UL and select@size>1 has the same MSAA role and thus AT used focusble state to determ whether this is a listbox or plain list
  297. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but couldn't ul be focusable but not acting as select?
  298. # [21:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: probably you could
  299. # [21:39] <@surkov> I don't really know how AT work
  300. # [21:39] <@surkov> I think they build from if/elses
  301. # [21:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: besides if web author wants to simulate select shouldn't they make ul focusable and then use aria-selected on children to manage which element of "select" is selected?
  302. # [21:41] <@tbsaunde> because iirc that would be way to get same events / states
  303. # [21:41] <@tbsaunde> otherwise you would get children being focused, but select uses selected state not focused I thought
  304. # [21:41] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  305. # [22:00] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 780559 on bug 886076.
  306. # [22:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
  307. # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, if you want to talk I can come over, but I guess fixing this is sort of reasonable, but I think I'd rather do it in Accessible class than have aria state map also invloved in focus, we already have too much stuff that effects focus
  308. # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> (maybe it would be nice to have function FOcusMgr::IsFocusable(Accessssible*) but I'm not sure
  309. # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> might be hard to make that not slow
  310. # [22:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why to not apply a permanent state in aria map?
  311. # [22:03] <@surkov> if we talk about permanent state approach?
  312. # [22:04] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well I think thinks that have disabled or aria-disabled attribute shouldn't be focusable
  313. # [22:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: like ARIA role list that has permeant linked state
  314. # [22:05] <@surkov> that'd be consistent to HTML widgets I think but
  315. # [22:05] <@surkov> look at Accessible::ApplyARIAState
  316. # [22:05] <@surkov> if state is focusable and its container has aria-disabled then we just add unavailable state
  317. # [22:05] <@surkov> so focusable and unavailable may go together
  318. # [22:06] <@surkov> which is probably weird
  319. # [22:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think the aria spec is fairly clear that aria-disabled things and they're descendants aren't interactible and don't need to be focusable
  320. # [22:06] <@surkov> probably we have a bug
  321. # [22:07] <@surkov> or probably we don't want to override native focusable state
  322. # [22:07] <@surkov> by aria-disabled
  323. # [22:07] <@surkov> in either case tbsaunde we could have FocusableUntilDisabled in ARIA state map
  324. # [22:07] <@surkov> why would we move that into Accessible class
  325. # [22:07] <@surkov> (because it seems we tried to do oppsite thing)
  326. # [22:08] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  327. # [22:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd claim if you make something aria-disabled but it can still get focus that's an author
  328. # [22:09] <@surkov> I
  329. # [22:09] <@surkov> I'd agree :)
  330. # [22:10] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  331. # [22:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess ARIAStateMap stuff is fine, focusability is too spread out already, whatever
  332. # [22:10] <@tbsaunde> *but whatever
  333. # [22:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so focusable until disabled approach?
  334. # [22:12] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  335. # [22:12] <@tbsaunde> I guess
  336. # [22:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how exactly would it work?
  337. # [22:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: add FocusableUntilDisabled ARIA state, then check aria-disabled if not presented then expose focusable
  338. # [22:13] <@surkov> good?
  339. # [22:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, aria-descendant makes kids aria-disabled so you need to climb tree which APLyARIAState() already does...
  340. # [22:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so what is suggestion?
  341. # [22:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: maybe stick more crap in ApplyARIAState()
  342. # [22:17] <@tbsaunde> or maybe we could always rm focusable state if aria-disabled and then do perminant state thing
  343. # [22:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: like roles comparions?
  344. # [22:18] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  345. # [22:18] <@surkov> maxli: how did you want to fix it?
  346. # [22:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think I like perminant state and then change ApplyARIAState() to rm focusable if aria-disabled
  347. # [22:19] <@tbsaunde> oh, arg I've been thiking about kids not widget itself
  348. # [22:20] <@tbsaunde> then I guess we don't have this problem and focusable until unavialable is fine
  349. # [22:20] <@tbsaunde> unless you care about <div aria-disabled=true><ul><li tabindex=x>... which assert is stupid
  350. # [22:22] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-F671A243.tmodns.net)
  351. # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so the other thing is that focusable until editable has to look over entire subtree right? isn't that going to be slow?
  352. # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> can we cache kids being focusable?
  353. # [22:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we should be smart and do not start processing if listbox is already focusable
  354. # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> true
  355. # [22:25] <@surkov> and then perhaps we should rely on widget interface?
  356. # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how?
  357. # [22:25] <@surkov> good question :)
  358. # [22:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: CurrentItem() would be good if it we make it working
  359. # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but what if there is no current item because widget isn't focused?
  360. # [22:27] <@surkov> tbsaunde: CurrentItem() is supposed to return an item which will be focused if the widget receive focus
  361. # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> I suspect the case it should be focusable won't be bad we'll find a focusable kid quickly, but the no focusable kid case worries me
  362. # [22:27] <@surkov> at least that's what comment says
  363. # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> ah, guess I should learn to go read docs :p
  364. # [22:28] <@surkov> but can't we just apply focusable state if there's no aria-disabled?
  365. # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: does that make sense?
  366. # [22:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: seems so, why not?
  367. # [22:30] <@surkov> at least it's simple
  368. # [22:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: let me check meaning of roles
  369. # [22:33] <@surkov> ok
  370. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I guess always focusable unless disabled makes sense for those roles
  371. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> sorry that took so long :(
  372. # [22:36] <@surkov> ok, cool
  373. # [22:37] <@surkov> maxli: are you fine with that?
  374. # [22:38] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  375. # [22:40] <maxli> surkov: looks ok
  376. # [22:40] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-F671A243.tmodns.net) (Quit: lizzard)
  377. # [22:41] <@surkov> cool
  378. # [22:44] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  379. # [22:48] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  380. # [22:50] * Joins: Mic (Mic@moz-C3CB3403.superkabel.de)
  381. # [22:51] <maxli> surkov: what's a case where both a node and its parent aren't hypertexts?
  382. # [22:51] * Quits: Jesse_ (jruderman@moz-537BCF9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Jesse_)
  383. # [22:51] <@surkov> maxli: tr and table
  384. # [23:04] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  385. # [23:12] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-3F778890.cable.virginmedia.com)
  386. # [23:16] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  387. # [23:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think I'm getting close to xbl stuff working
  388. # [23:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: awesome
  389. # [23:20] <@tbsaunde> turns out one binding does quiet just return a constnat, but I think pulling the logic for image binding into a11y code to give it tooltip accessible will be fine
  390. # [23:20] <@surkov> you hate xbl already, right? :)
  391. # [23:21] <@tbsaunde> well I wouldn't say I like it :)
  392. # [23:22] * Joins: Jesse (jruderman@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  393. # [23:23] <@surkov> ok, going home
  394. # [23:24] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  395. # [23:28] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-B51E1692.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  396. # [23:29] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@A2D3E7B.CC2C261C.2B38BDEE.IP)
  397. # [23:33] * Joins: satdav (Davidw@moz-2B0F19ED.cable.virginmedia.com)
  398. # [23:33] <satdav> davidb|pto, it was for the people who dont know about accessibility
  399. # [23:34] <satdav> can you or marco please do a accessibility brown bag
  400. # [23:35] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-F671A243.tmodns.net)
  401. # [23:38] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-F671A243.tmodns.net) (Quit: lizzard)
  402. # [23:52] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 780559 on bug 886076.
  403. # [23:52] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 780611 on bug 886076.
  404. # [23:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886076 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Support movement by granularity
  405. # [23:53] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@A2D3E7B.CC2C261C.2B38BDEE.IP) (Ping timeout)
  406. # [23:56] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-B51E1692.austin.res.rr.com)
  407. # Session Close: Thu Jul 25 00:00:00 2013

The end :)