/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-08-20 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Aug 20 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [12:30] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 907125 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [12:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=907125 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Impove output for ARIA tabs
- # [12:36] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from yura.zenevich@gmail .com for attachment 792740 on bug 907125.
- # [12:37] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Assignee on bug 907125 from nobody@mozilla.org to marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [12:37] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 907125 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
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- # [12:49] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 905215 from --- to FIXED.
- # [12:49] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 905215 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [12:49] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 905215 from --- to mozilla26.
- # [12:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=905215 nor, --, mozilla26, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Add a test sheet for HTML elements
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- # [14:38] <@marcoz> Morning maxli, surkov, davidb! :)
- # [14:39] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [14:39] <@surkov> guten tag, marcoz
- # [14:39] <@davidb> Watch out everyone. I got over 8 hours sleep!
- # [14:39] <maxli> Hi marcoz!
- # [14:39] * @marcoz ducks. ;)
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- # [14:43] <Gijs> davidb: excellent, wanna take some of my bugs?
- # [14:43] <@davidb> they would cower before me
- # [14:43] <@davidb> (lies)
- # [14:50] * @marcoz wrote another patch for AccessFu. Whoohoo! ;)
- # [15:00] <@davidb> yeah?
- # [15:00] <@davidb> surkov: regarding mapping guide… i can't keep track of the process… what is a heartbeat again?
- # [15:01] <tbsaunde> morning
- # [15:01] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
- # [15:01] <@davidb> surkov: it isn't that important btw - don't mean to distract you
- # [15:02] <@surkov> davidb: for a better terms treating it's worth to reach jason :)
- # [15:02] <@surkov> it's ok
- # [15:02] <@davidb> hahah
- # [15:02] <@davidb> ok
- # [15:02] <@davidb> jkiss is a good peep
- # [15:02] <@surkov> in my understanding, it means polish the things and send the spec outside
- # [15:02] <@surkov> outside the editors group
- # [15:04] * @davidb nods
- # [15:04] <@davidb> it is probably a mechanism to get activity happening
- # [15:06] <@marcoz> surkov: Regarding your question on the blog, if I remember correctly, we do have this feature implemented in Firefox a11y core in the sense that we make a distinction between alt="" and no alt at all. So screen readers can do their own determination of what to do with these.
- # [15:06] <@marcoz> surkov: JAWS has been making this distinction forever IIRC. In fact when I started at Mozilla, this was one of the things I tackled, so JAWS could work with these presentational images.
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- # [15:36] <@marcoz> Good morning yzen! :)
- # [15:44] <@marcoz> davidb: We still up for our 1:1 in 10?
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- # [15:58] <@davidb> marcoz: yep finding a room...
- # [16:00] <@surkov> marcoz: that's right, the question is do we need to incorporate that into core?
- # [16:01] <@surkov> if all AT are going to ignore it then probably it doesn't make sense to expose it
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- # [16:06] <yzen> marcoz: hi :) , will look at your patch today
- # [16:07] <gloob> ok
- # [16:07] <gloob> sorry wrong channel ;-)
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- # [16:35] <@marcoz> surkov: Well, I *feel* like it's spread knowledge around the web developer community that images with alt="" are decorative, and that they can use this technique to filter them out. Without using role="presentation". So the question would be: Should we treat alt="" as an implicit role "presentation"? That would take away the screen readers' choice.
- # [16:35] <@marcoz> yzen: Cool, thanks!
- # [16:36] <@surkov> marcoz: so you think that we need to let AT to decide, right?
- # [16:37] <@marcoz> surkov: I think some of the AT have treated it like this for so long that we'd probably break them if we changed the paradigm. I'm thinking JAWS and WE, for the most part. Not sure if NVDA has similar logic.
- # [16:38] <@marcoz> surkov: In the maze of JAWS configuration options, they probably have some toggle to also expose these kinds of images, and if we suddenly took them away without an explicit role "presentation", that would certainly break.
- # [16:38] <@surkov> marcoz: we shouldn't break them because no accessible means nothing to expose :)
- # [16:38] <@surkov> I see
- # [16:39] <@davidb> a maze of twisty passages, all alike.
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- # [17:07] <tbsaunde> surkov: looks like that assert is either unrelated or only part of the story, when I run the test it fails but I don't see that assert
- # [17:08] <@surkov> mm, bad, tbsaunde. probably it makes sense to get an attention of the assertion's authors?
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- # [17:09] <@surkov> I still hope that the assertion is a part of the story
- # [17:09] <@surkov> if not a whole story :)
- # [17:10] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, I guess to talk to someone who knows about autocomplete in any case
- # [17:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: awesome
- # [17:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you know when it started to fail often?
- # [17:10] <@surkov> what fx verison
- # [17:12] <tbsaunde> no, but you should be able to tell by looking at comments in bug
- # [17:13] <tbsaunde> but I think its fairly recent
- # [17:27] <@marcoz> Good morning eeejay! :)
- # [17:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we probably should nominate it to q3 community work, it seems like AT users should hit this pretty often
- # [17:35] <@surkov> in the wild
- # [17:39] <@marcoz> maxli: Have you ever seen this error message? I'm getting it in my test run log files before each of the JSAT test files finishes:
- # [17:39] <@marcoz> 0:59.32 System JS : ERROR resource://gre/modules/accessibility/Utils.jsm:711
- # [17:39] <@marcoz> 0:59.32 NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED: Component returned failure code: 0x8000ffff (NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED) [nsIPrefBranch.getIntPref]
- # [17:40] <maxli> marcoz: don't think I've ever seen that
- # [17:41] <maxli> marcoz: just trying it out now, I do see it when running the tests
- # [17:41] <@marcoz> maxli: I saw this first time today. I built Firefox for Mac to run the tests. Really weird.
- # [17:42] <@marcoz> maxli: OK, filing a bug.
- # [17:44] <tbsaunde> surkov: I have no idea how commmmmon that sort of xul autocomplete is, but feel free if you like
- # [17:44] <@surkov> ok
- # [17:44] <@surkov> marcoz: didn't you see anything weird with address bar on nightlies?
- # [17:46] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 907216 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [17:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=907216 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, When running the AccessFu tests on Mac, getting component error on getIntPref
- # [17:47] <@marcoz> surkov: No, not off-hand. I just did a search and selected an item from the list. Why?
- # [17:48] <@surkov> marcoz: we have intermittent failure for autocompletes, missed focus event when you open autocompelte
- # [17:48] <@surkov> marcoz: pls ping me if you see this in the wild or if somebody says you about it
- # [17:49] <@marcoz> surkov: Will pay attention and let you know. is this about bug 890795?
- # [17:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890795 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | /accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul |
- # [17:50] <@surkov> marcoz: that's right
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- # [18:09] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com granted review for attachment 792740 on bug 907125.
- # [18:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=907125 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Impove output for ARIA tabs
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- # [18:50] <@firebot> nfroyd@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 872031 from --- to WORKSFORME.
- # [18:50] <@firebot> nfroyd@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 872031 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [18:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872031 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, clang 3.3 compile errors in accessible/src/mac/AccessibleWrap.mm
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- # [19:16] <@davidb> maxli tbsaunde surkov: if you get too hot you might want to find an empty desk or couch in the northwest wing
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- # [19:16] <@surkov> davidb: I assume you are hiding somewhere there?
- # [19:17] <@davidb> yeah
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- # [19:19] <tbsaunde> davidb: ok, was sort of thinking about just heading home, but guess I'll take a look first
- # [19:19] <@davidb> home is also an option
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- # [20:50] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, is that test just busted or should a11y focus select the items do you think?
- # [20:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think it should select items
- # [20:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: all we do is just send keyboard events, so the user should be able to reproduce
- # [20:51] <@surkov> what means if press arrow key but item is not selected
- # [20:51] <@surkov> (on accessibility level I assume only)
- # [20:52] <tbsaunde> surkov: so you think a11y and dom focus should be different in this case/
- # [20:52] <@surkov> tbsaunde: absolutely, DOM always stays on entry
- # [20:53] <@surkov> as Neil said
- # [20:54] <tbsaunde> ok, well you want to fix it? since you know focus stuff beter?
- # [20:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I don't really burn out wishing it to fix :)
- # [20:56] <@surkov> what do you think about having one more focus professional ;)
- # [20:56] <@surkov> btw, did you find somebody who knows about assertion?
- # [20:58] <tbsaunde> I don't go looking for one
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- # [20:59] <tbsaunde> err, I mean I didn't get around to it yet, I'd rather fix the focus stuff and see what happens
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- # [21:06] <@surkov> the assertion might point that sighted users have a problem too
- # [21:06] <@surkov> that's why I wanted to check it
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- # [21:20] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure, its probably a problem of some sort but I want to deal with one bit of this at a time if I'm dealing with it at all
- # [21:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if you fix focus a11y issue then I assume the UI problem if it exists will be hidden
- # [21:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I guess the a11y fix may be nearly simple (http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/generic/DocAccessible.cpp#1902)
- # [21:25] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, the assert won't go away
- # [21:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok
- # [21:25] <tbsaunde> surkov: what are you suggesting the fix is?
- # [21:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you said that the problem is kids are not created when we need to focus them, right?
- # [21:27] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, they don't exist when the input gets focused again
- # [21:27] <@surkov> I guess we receive activeItemChanged event but no kids and no pending tree updates so we ignore it, yep?
- # [21:27] <tbsaunde> maybe, I haven't checked
- # [21:31] <@surkov> I don't see activeItemChanged events in the log
- # [21:32] <@surkov> but as you say focus is sent to entry
- # [21:32] <@surkov> which is probably ok
- # [21:32] <@surkov> but test fails at
- # [21:32] <@surkov> 19 ERROR TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | uncaught exception - NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE: Component returned failure code: 0x80070057 (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE) [nsIAccessible.getChildAt] at chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul:274
- # [21:33] <@surkov> it seems like it needs to be fixed to be more peaceful
- # [21:33] <@surkov> but when you fix this then get test hanging
- # [21:34] <@surkov> in that case you may still need to hack on DocAccessible to make sure we fire focus event when active descendants are created
- # [21:37] <tbsaunde> surkov: I'm confused what are you saying the input getting focused may be fine?
- # [21:39] <tbsaunde> surkov: and how should test be changed to allow input to get focused?
- # [21:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because we get a focus event and it seems we can't do nothing about it
- # [21:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: by scenarios
- # [21:40] <@surkov> event scenarios
- # [21:40] <@surkov> tbsaunde: look for defineScenario function
- # [21:40] <tbsaunde> ok
- # [21:44] <yzen> eeejay: hi
- # [21:44] <eeejay> yzen, yo
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- # [21:45] <@davidb> surkov: do you recall why #7 is a must here http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex
- # [21:46] <yzen> eeejay: i was going through your comments for bug 795957, one were you mentioned optimization though using Set, could you expand on what you meant?
- # [21:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795957 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Support live regions
- # [21:46] <eeejay> Set() is optimizaed for determining if something is in a set
- # [21:46] <eeejay> more than an array
- # [21:47] <eeejay> it does hashing
- # [21:47] <@surkov> davidb: I don't know but actually I'm surprised that ARIA says what DOM events should be fired (btw, I thought DOMFocusIn/Out eventually died)
- # [21:47] <yzen> eeejay: right, the only thing is that the first arg is the string with space separated attrs, which means i have to split it first
- # [21:47] <yzen> eeejay: would that be ok ?
- # [21:50] <eeejay> yzen, aRelevant could be turned into a set
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- # [21:52] <yzen> eeejay: right but we check for each value in aRelevant it is present in relevant string indexOf there is a string operation
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- # [21:52] <eeejay> yzen, oh, yeah. i thought the other string could be a list, no?
- # [21:52] <eeejay> yzen, might be a stupid idea
- # [21:53] <yzen> eeejay: yep , i think it might still be a little faster
- # [21:54] <yzen> eeejay: btw also tried requestAnimationFrame and it didn't seem to work, i was getting some errors trying to look up fields of the live region accessible, so the timing didn't seem right, but ill push to try to see how it looks
- # [21:55] <eeejay> yzen, so maybe a timeout that is longer than 20ms?
- # [21:55] <eeejay> i mean longer than 1ms
- # [21:55] <eeejay> maybe 20ms
- # [21:55] <yzen> eeejay: sounds good
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- # [22:11] <@firebot> stefanh@inbox.com requested needinfo from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com on bug 883672.
- # [22:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883672 nor, --, ---, six.dsn, ASSI, XULLinkAccessible should implement text interface similar to XULLabelAccessible
- # [22:12] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) on bug 883672.
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- # [22:19] <SteveF> surkov: hi, how does firefox expose the lang attribute on html element to acc layer?
- # [22:20] <@surkov> SteveF: right, I think it's exposed as IAccessible2::locale
- # [22:20] <SteveF> surkov:ok thanks
- # [22:21] <@surkov> SteveF: I think I didn't specified that in the spec
- # [22:21] <SteveF> surkov: another bug...
- # [22:22] <@surkov> :)
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- # [22:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 883672.
- # [22:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883672 nor, --, ---, six.dsn, ASSI, XULLinkAccessible should implement text interface similar to XULLabelAccessible
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- # Session Close: Wed Aug 21 00:00:00 2013
The end :)