/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-08-20 / end

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  77. # [12:30] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 907125 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  78. # [12:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=907125 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Impove output for ARIA tabs
  79. # [12:36] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from yura.zenevich@gmail .com for attachment 792740 on bug 907125.
  80. # [12:37] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Assignee on bug 907125 from nobody@mozilla.org to marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  81. # [12:37] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 907125 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
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  83. # [12:49] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 905215 from --- to FIXED.
  84. # [12:49] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 905215 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  85. # [12:49] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 905215 from --- to mozilla26.
  86. # [12:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=905215 nor, --, mozilla26, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Add a test sheet for HTML elements
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  97. # [14:38] <@marcoz> Morning maxli, surkov, davidb! :)
  98. # [14:39] <@davidb> heyo!
  99. # [14:39] <@surkov> guten tag, marcoz
  100. # [14:39] <@davidb> Watch out everyone. I got over 8 hours sleep!
  101. # [14:39] <maxli> Hi marcoz!
  102. # [14:39] * @marcoz ducks. ;)
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  104. # [14:43] <Gijs> davidb: excellent, wanna take some of my bugs?
  105. # [14:43] <@davidb> they would cower before me
  106. # [14:43] <@davidb> (lies)
  107. # [14:50] * @marcoz wrote another patch for AccessFu. Whoohoo! ;)
  108. # [15:00] <@davidb> yeah?
  109. # [15:00] <@davidb> surkov: regarding mapping guide… i can't keep track of the process… what is a heartbeat again?
  110. # [15:01] <tbsaunde> morning
  111. # [15:01] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
  112. # [15:01] <@davidb> surkov: it isn't that important btw - don't mean to distract you
  113. # [15:02] <@surkov> davidb: for a better terms treating it's worth to reach jason :)
  114. # [15:02] <@surkov> it's ok
  115. # [15:02] <@davidb> hahah
  116. # [15:02] <@davidb> ok
  117. # [15:02] <@davidb> jkiss is a good peep
  118. # [15:02] <@surkov> in my understanding, it means polish the things and send the spec outside
  119. # [15:02] <@surkov> outside the editors group
  120. # [15:04] * @davidb nods
  121. # [15:04] <@davidb> it is probably a mechanism to get activity happening
  122. # [15:06] <@marcoz> surkov: Regarding your question on the blog, if I remember correctly, we do have this feature implemented in Firefox a11y core in the sense that we make a distinction between alt="" and no alt at all. So screen readers can do their own determination of what to do with these.
  123. # [15:06] <@marcoz> surkov: JAWS has been making this distinction forever IIRC. In fact when I started at Mozilla, this was one of the things I tackled, so JAWS could work with these presentational images.
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  130. # [15:36] <@marcoz> Good morning yzen! :)
  131. # [15:44] <@marcoz> davidb: We still up for our 1:1 in 10?
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  133. # [15:58] <@davidb> marcoz: yep finding a room...
  134. # [16:00] <@surkov> marcoz: that's right, the question is do we need to incorporate that into core?
  135. # [16:01] <@surkov> if all AT are going to ignore it then probably it doesn't make sense to expose it
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  137. # [16:06] <yzen> marcoz: hi :) , will look at your patch today
  138. # [16:07] <gloob> ok
  139. # [16:07] <gloob> sorry wrong channel ;-)
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  142. # [16:35] <@marcoz> surkov: Well, I *feel* like it's spread knowledge around the web developer community that images with alt="" are decorative, and that they can use this technique to filter them out. Without using role="presentation". So the question would be: Should we treat alt="" as an implicit role "presentation"? That would take away the screen readers' choice.
  143. # [16:35] <@marcoz> yzen: Cool, thanks!
  144. # [16:36] <@surkov> marcoz: so you think that we need to let AT to decide, right?
  145. # [16:37] <@marcoz> surkov: I think some of the AT have treated it like this for so long that we'd probably break them if we changed the paradigm. I'm thinking JAWS and WE, for the most part. Not sure if NVDA has similar logic.
  146. # [16:38] <@marcoz> surkov: In the maze of JAWS configuration options, they probably have some toggle to also expose these kinds of images, and if we suddenly took them away without an explicit role "presentation", that would certainly break.
  147. # [16:38] <@surkov> marcoz: we shouldn't break them because no accessible means nothing to expose :)
  148. # [16:38] <@surkov> I see
  149. # [16:39] <@davidb> a maze of twisty passages, all alike.
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  154. # [17:07] <tbsaunde> surkov: looks like that assert is either unrelated or only part of the story, when I run the test it fails but I don't see that assert
  155. # [17:08] <@surkov> mm, bad, tbsaunde. probably it makes sense to get an attention of the assertion's authors?
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  157. # [17:09] <@surkov> I still hope that the assertion is a part of the story
  158. # [17:09] <@surkov> if not a whole story :)
  159. # [17:10] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, I guess to talk to someone who knows about autocomplete in any case
  160. # [17:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: awesome
  161. # [17:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you know when it started to fail often?
  162. # [17:10] <@surkov> what fx verison
  163. # [17:12] <tbsaunde> no, but you should be able to tell by looking at comments in bug
  164. # [17:13] <tbsaunde> but I think its fairly recent
  165. # [17:27] <@marcoz> Good morning eeejay! :)
  166. # [17:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we probably should nominate it to q3 community work, it seems like AT users should hit this pretty often
  167. # [17:35] <@surkov> in the wild
  168. # [17:39] <@marcoz> maxli: Have you ever seen this error message? I'm getting it in my test run log files before each of the JSAT test files finishes:
  169. # [17:39] <@marcoz> 0:59.32 System JS : ERROR resource://gre/modules/accessibility/Utils.jsm:711
  170. # [17:39] <@marcoz> 0:59.32 NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED: Component returned failure code: 0x8000ffff (NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED) [nsIPrefBranch.getIntPref]
  171. # [17:40] <maxli> marcoz: don't think I've ever seen that
  172. # [17:41] <maxli> marcoz: just trying it out now, I do see it when running the tests
  173. # [17:41] <@marcoz> maxli: I saw this first time today. I built Firefox for Mac to run the tests. Really weird.
  174. # [17:42] <@marcoz> maxli: OK, filing a bug.
  175. # [17:44] <tbsaunde> surkov: I have no idea how commmmmon that sort of xul autocomplete is, but feel free if you like
  176. # [17:44] <@surkov> ok
  177. # [17:44] <@surkov> marcoz: didn't you see anything weird with address bar on nightlies?
  178. # [17:46] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 907216 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  179. # [17:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=907216 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, When running the AccessFu tests on Mac, getting component error on getIntPref
  180. # [17:47] <@marcoz> surkov: No, not off-hand. I just did a search and selected an item from the list. Why?
  181. # [17:48] <@surkov> marcoz: we have intermittent failure for autocompletes, missed focus event when you open autocompelte
  182. # [17:48] <@surkov> marcoz: pls ping me if you see this in the wild or if somebody says you about it
  183. # [17:49] <@marcoz> surkov: Will pay attention and let you know. is this about bug 890795?
  184. # [17:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890795 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | /accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul |
  185. # [17:50] <@surkov> marcoz: that's right
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  187. # [18:09] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com granted review for attachment 792740 on bug 907125.
  188. # [18:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=907125 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Impove output for ARIA tabs
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  193. # [18:50] <@firebot> nfroyd@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 872031 from --- to WORKSFORME.
  194. # [18:50] <@firebot> nfroyd@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 872031 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  195. # [18:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872031 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, clang 3.3 compile errors in accessible/src/mac/AccessibleWrap.mm
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  202. # [19:16] <@davidb> maxli tbsaunde surkov: if you get too hot you might want to find an empty desk or couch in the northwest wing
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  204. # [19:16] <@surkov> davidb: I assume you are hiding somewhere there?
  205. # [19:17] <@davidb> yeah
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  207. # [19:19] <tbsaunde> davidb: ok, was sort of thinking about just heading home, but guess I'll take a look first
  208. # [19:19] <@davidb> home is also an option
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  221. # [20:50] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, is that test just busted or should a11y focus select the items do you think?
  222. # [20:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think it should select items
  223. # [20:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: all we do is just send keyboard events, so the user should be able to reproduce
  224. # [20:51] <@surkov> what means if press arrow key but item is not selected
  225. # [20:51] <@surkov> (on accessibility level I assume only)
  226. # [20:52] <tbsaunde> surkov: so you think a11y and dom focus should be different in this case/
  227. # [20:52] <@surkov> tbsaunde: absolutely, DOM always stays on entry
  228. # [20:53] <@surkov> as Neil said
  229. # [20:54] <tbsaunde> ok, well you want to fix it? since you know focus stuff beter?
  230. # [20:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I don't really burn out wishing it to fix :)
  231. # [20:56] <@surkov> what do you think about having one more focus professional ;)
  232. # [20:56] <@surkov> btw, did you find somebody who knows about assertion?
  233. # [20:58] <tbsaunde> I don't go looking for one
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  235. # [20:59] <tbsaunde> err, I mean I didn't get around to it yet, I'd rather fix the focus stuff and see what happens
  236. # [21:01] * Joins: yzen (yzen@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP)
  237. # [21:06] <@surkov> the assertion might point that sighted users have a problem too
  238. # [21:06] <@surkov> that's why I wanted to check it
  239. # [21:18] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@69BF4ADB.B434C58E.9B1E38F4.IP) (Ping timeout)
  240. # [21:20] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure, its probably a problem of some sort but I want to deal with one bit of this at a time if I'm dealing with it at all
  241. # [21:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if you fix focus a11y issue then I assume the UI problem if it exists will be hidden
  242. # [21:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I guess the a11y fix may be nearly simple (http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/generic/DocAccessible.cpp#1902)
  243. # [21:25] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, the assert won't go away
  244. # [21:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok
  245. # [21:25] <tbsaunde> surkov: what are you suggesting the fix is?
  246. # [21:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you said that the problem is kids are not created when we need to focus them, right?
  247. # [21:27] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, they don't exist when the input gets focused again
  248. # [21:27] <@surkov> I guess we receive activeItemChanged event but no kids and no pending tree updates so we ignore it, yep?
  249. # [21:27] <tbsaunde> maybe, I haven't checked
  250. # [21:31] <@surkov> I don't see activeItemChanged events in the log
  251. # [21:32] <@surkov> but as you say focus is sent to entry
  252. # [21:32] <@surkov> which is probably ok
  253. # [21:32] <@surkov> but test fails at
  254. # [21:32] <@surkov> 19 ERROR TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | uncaught exception - NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE: Component returned failure code: 0x80070057 (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE) [nsIAccessible.getChildAt] at chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/tests/mochitest/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul:274
  255. # [21:33] <@surkov> it seems like it needs to be fixed to be more peaceful
  256. # [21:33] <@surkov> but when you fix this then get test hanging
  257. # [21:34] <@surkov> in that case you may still need to hack on DocAccessible to make sure we fire focus event when active descendants are created
  258. # [21:37] <tbsaunde> surkov: I'm confused what are you saying the input getting focused may be fine?
  259. # [21:39] <tbsaunde> surkov: and how should test be changed to allow input to get focused?
  260. # [21:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because we get a focus event and it seems we can't do nothing about it
  261. # [21:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: by scenarios
  262. # [21:40] <@surkov> event scenarios
  263. # [21:40] <@surkov> tbsaunde: look for defineScenario function
  264. # [21:40] <tbsaunde> ok
  265. # [21:44] <yzen> eeejay: hi
  266. # [21:44] <eeejay> yzen, yo
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  268. # [21:45] <@davidb> surkov: do you recall why #7 is a must here http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex
  269. # [21:46] <yzen> eeejay: i was going through your comments for bug 795957, one were you mentioned optimization though using Set, could you expand on what you meant?
  270. # [21:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795957 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Support live regions
  271. # [21:46] <eeejay> Set() is optimizaed for determining if something is in a set
  272. # [21:46] <eeejay> more than an array
  273. # [21:47] <eeejay> it does hashing
  274. # [21:47] <@surkov> davidb: I don't know but actually I'm surprised that ARIA says what DOM events should be fired (btw, I thought DOMFocusIn/Out eventually died)
  275. # [21:47] <yzen> eeejay: right, the only thing is that the first arg is the string with space separated attrs, which means i have to split it first
  276. # [21:47] <yzen> eeejay: would that be ok ?
  277. # [21:50] <eeejay> yzen, aRelevant could be turned into a set
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  279. # [21:52] <yzen> eeejay: right but we check for each value in aRelevant it is present in relevant string indexOf there is a string operation
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  281. # [21:52] <eeejay> yzen, oh, yeah. i thought the other string could be a list, no?
  282. # [21:52] <eeejay> yzen, might be a stupid idea
  283. # [21:53] <yzen> eeejay: yep , i think it might still be a little faster
  284. # [21:54] <yzen> eeejay: btw also tried requestAnimationFrame and it didn't seem to work, i was getting some errors trying to look up fields of the live region accessible, so the timing didn't seem right, but ill push to try to see how it looks
  285. # [21:55] <eeejay> yzen, so maybe a timeout that is longer than 20ms?
  286. # [21:55] <eeejay> i mean longer than 1ms
  287. # [21:55] <eeejay> maybe 20ms
  288. # [21:55] <yzen> eeejay: sounds good
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  290. # [22:11] <@firebot> stefanh@inbox.com requested needinfo from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com on bug 883672.
  291. # [22:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883672 nor, --, ---, six.dsn, ASSI, XULLinkAccessible should implement text interface similar to XULLabelAccessible
  292. # [22:12] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) on bug 883672.
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  296. # [22:19] <SteveF> surkov: hi, how does firefox expose the lang attribute on html element to acc layer?
  297. # [22:20] <@surkov> SteveF: right, I think it's exposed as IAccessible2::locale
  298. # [22:20] <SteveF> surkov:ok thanks
  299. # [22:21] <@surkov> SteveF: I think I didn't specified that in the spec
  300. # [22:21] <SteveF> surkov: another bug...
  301. # [22:22] <@surkov> :)
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  305. # [22:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 883672.
  306. # [22:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883672 nor, --, ---, six.dsn, ASSI, XULLinkAccessible should implement text interface similar to XULLabelAccessible
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The end :)