/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-09-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 10 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:01] <@firebot> roc@ocallahan.org cancelled needinfo?(roc@ocallahan.org ) on bug 905909.
  4. # [00:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=905909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, test_tree.xul causes infinite recursion
  5. # [00:38] <@firebot> bobbyholley+bmo@gmail.com requested review from roc@ocallahan.org for attachment 801861 on bug 905909.
  6. # [00:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=905909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, test_tree.xul causes infinite recursion
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  13. # [01:39] <@firebot> roc@ocallahan.org granted review for attachment 801861 on bug 905909.
  14. # [01:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=905909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, test_tree.xul causes infinite recursion
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  46. # [07:44] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 914498 filed by ehsan@mozilla.com.
  47. # [07:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=914498 nor, --, ---, ehsan, NEW, Minimize the #includes in accessible/src/base
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  57. # [11:18] <@marcoz> I really don't get why everyone is making such a fuzz about SVG. Isn't that just a markup language for some more complex graphic displaying?
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  59. # [12:33] <Gijs> marcoz: yes, but they can be resized arbitrarily, which you can't do with raster-based image formats
  60. # [12:34] <Gijs> marcoz: if you make a png/gif/jpg/whatever 10 times its size, it will quickly look like crap. Not so with an SVG. Hence it being useful for e.g. having icons that work in multiple sizes, which is especially useful now that mobile has such a variety of screen sizes and corresponding DPIs
  61. # [12:35] <Gijs> (and desktop is getting there, too, but just taking a bit longer)
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  63. # [12:45] <Tomcat|sheriff> oh hai
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  81. # [15:14] <@marcoz> Hi all!
  82. # [15:15] <@marcoz> Gijs: Interesting. Feels a bit wild, and kinda cool, to describe images or icons in markup,and I can see the need to make these accessible, too. It's still weird somehow, though. :)
  83. # [15:18] <Gijs> marcoz: hmm, well, depends
  84. # [15:19] <Gijs> marcoz: so SVG is different from e.g. PNG in two ways. One, it's a vector (rather than raster) format. Two, it's an XML-as-text format, rather than a binary format. The points I made were about 1, and 2 is more of an accident than a requirement for the uses we put it to, AFAIK
  85. # [15:20] <@marcoz> Gijs: Ah OK… :)
  86. # [15:20] <Gijs> marcoz: in a vector format, you essentially define shapes/"paths" (essentially freeform shapes). As for accessibility... yes, maybe. It's not always a given that shapes naturally map to meaning
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  88. # [15:21] <@marcoz> Gijs: That's what I thought. :)
  89. # [15:21] <Gijs> marcoz: e.g. I could have svg that creates a "house" icon that draws a triangle above a square.
  90. # [15:22] <Gijs> marcoz: I would not necessarily think it a good idea to then label the triangle "roof" and the square "bottom" (or something?), especially if they are visually continuous (i.e. same color, no borders)
  91. # [15:22] <Gijs> marcoz: I don't know if SVG has a kind of "grouping" thing that can then describe a group of shapes/paths as something cohesive. In which case, maybe that could make sense.
  92. # [15:22] <@marcoz> Gijs: No, it would make more sense to describe the shape as a whole.
  93. # [15:23] <@marcoz> Gijs: I don't know, either. I am not fluent in SVG.
  94. # [15:23] <Gijs> marcoz: OTOH, for icons, usually the icon is anyway a symbol for a more complicated thing. For instance, in Firefox, the downloads button has a big arrow pointing down. This makes visual sense, but the button label should still be "Downloads", and adding a label to a hypothetical SVG icon that says "down arrow" is more likely to be confusing than actually helpful, I'd imagine :)
  95. # [15:24] <@marcoz> Gijs: It definitely would be confusing!
  96. # [15:25] <@marcoz> Gijs: A lot of visual indicators don't translate for blind people. For example, I had been using Windows and related OS for over 15 years before I realized, by experimenting with a braille graphic tablet, that a pair of scissors is being used to symbolize the act of cutting text out of a document.
  97. # [15:25] <Gijs> marcoz: :D
  98. # [15:25] <@marcoz> Had I not known Windows that well, I would not have known what that symbol stood for.
  99. # [15:26] <Gijs> marcoz: we still use floppy disks for 'save' in some applications... imagine how that'll go down. ;)
  100. # [15:26] <@marcoz> Gijs: Yeah, I was just told recently that that is still the case! Many people, even your age, probably don't even know any more what floppy discs are! :)
  101. # [15:26] <@marcoz> Hell, many teenagers barely know what CDs are.
  102. # [15:27] <Gijs> marcoz: don't exaggerate, please... I still played shareware games off floppy disks when I was a kid :P
  103. # [15:27] <Gijs> marcoz: I'm not *that* young anymore
  104. # [15:27] <Gijs> ;)
  105. # [15:27] <@marcoz> Gijs: Yeah, you were lucky! :)
  106. # [15:28] <@marcoz> Gijs: Compared to me, you are. Believe me. :) But don't let that worry you! :)
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  112. # [15:40] <@davidb> heyo
  113. # [15:48] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  114. # [15:48] <@davidb> hi!
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  136. # [17:12] <@marcoz> Yay! bug 911714 will enable me to test all things GAIA without having to apply any additional patches.
  137. # [17:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=911714 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Backgrounded apps remain visible to screen reader
  138. # [17:13] <@marcoz> Now smaug just needs to get rollin' on eeejay's latest TTS patch again.
  139. # [17:15] <@davidb> marcoz: very handy for your Q3 goal
  140. # [17:16] <@marcoz> davidb: Indeed!
  141. # [17:16] <@davidb> heheh
  142. # [17:17] <@marcoz> davidb: If you're interested in the Pico TTS status: Bug 903687 is where the action is happening.
  143. # [17:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=903687 nor, --, ---, rsilveira, ASSI, Work - NewUI - Implement some visual tweaks to the urlbar for when appbar buttons are hidden.
  144. # [17:17] <@marcoz> No, apparently not.
  145. # [17:17] <@davidb> ha
  146. # [17:18] <@davidb> bug 904687
  147. # [17:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=904687 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Introduce Pico speech synthesis service
  148. # [17:19] <@marcoz> davidb: Yup, :)
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  160. # [18:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 834138 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  161. # [18:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 802430 on bug 834138.
  162. # [18:51] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 834138 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  163. # [18:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=834138 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Intermittent states/test_doc_busy.html | Test timed out. (followed by many more)
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  168. # [19:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: plans for bug 899433 review?
  169. # [19:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=899433 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Accessibility returns empty line for last line in certain cases
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  171. # [19:07] <tbsaunde> surkov: I looked through it once, I'll do a bunch of reviews today
  172. # [19:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: cool, thank you
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  182. # [20:08] <tbsaunde> surkov: some reason bug 834138 patch doesn't have commit message? I'd rather not figure out what you try to fix by reading the patch
  183. # [20:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=834138 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Intermittent states/test_doc_busy.html | Test timed out. (followed by many more)
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  194. # [20:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: usually commit messages I do match to bug summary
  195. # [20:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so the problem was as I wrote we waited for another event to finish it, i.e. we cancelled scheduled next invoker and when all expected events were handled we didn't scheduled a new one
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  198. # [20:41] <@surkov> tbsaunde: does it makes sense?
  199. # [20:43] <tbsaunde> surkov: I guess
  200. # [20:44] <@surkov> ok, most of the patch is just more logging
  201. # [20:44] <@surkov> and one logic change
  202. # [20:44] <@surkov> it sounds like: if we canceled the next invoker but we are done then reschedule it again
  203. # [20:45] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ^
  204. # [20:47] <tbsaunde> surkov: why do we cancel invokers in the first place?
  205. # [20:48] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because we've got the first match and we need to make sure we finish all matches before next invoker is processed
  206. # [20:48] <@surkov> in that case we have two scenarios: all expected events and all unexpected events
  207. # [20:48] <@surkov> since we have all unexpected events scenario then we start next invoker (in case if we won't hit any event)
  208. # [20:49] <@surkov> but since we get first expected event then we cancel scheduled next invoker to wait until we finsih
  209. # [20:51] * victorporof_ is now known as victorporof
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  211. # [20:55] <tbsaunde> surkov: why do we cancel instead of just schedule the next invoker?
  212. # [20:58] <@surkov> tbsaunde: this approach probably would be more friendly since it wouldn't lead to hangs, iirc we did it before, but one day bz said it'd be good to make current way because it's timing friendly
  213. # [20:58] <@surkov> so you never start new test before the previous one had a chance to complete because you were running on slow machnie
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  215. # [21:01] <@davidb> i thought it was because events could get misidentified
  216. # [21:01] <@davidb> and the states would be wrong
  217. # [21:01] <@davidb> etc
  218. # [21:02] <@davidb> the general idea was to keep it simple - easier to debug
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  221. # [21:03] <@davidb> not misidentified… but ...
  222. # [21:03] <@davidb> sigh
  223. # [21:03] <@davidb> meeting time
  224. # [21:04] <tbsaunde> surkov: but doesn't having matched the event mean that part of the test is done
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  226. # [21:32] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 802430 on bug 834138.
  227. # [21:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=834138 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Intermittent states/test_doc_busy.html | Test timed out. (followed by many more)
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  231. # [22:00] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 801722 on bug 899433.
  232. # [22:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=899433 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Accessibility returns empty line for last line in certain cases
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  246. # [22:42] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 802060 on bug 914498.
  247. # [22:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=914498 nor, --, ---, ehsan, NEW, Minimize the #includes in accessible/src/base
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  263. # Session Close: Wed Sep 11 00:00:00 2013

The end :)