/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-09-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 18 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  6. # [00:53] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 806313 on bug 687414.
  7. # [00:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687414 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, label_for relation is missed on label implicitly associated with control
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  10. # [01:42] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 917598 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
  11. # [01:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=917598 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, ISimpleDOMNode::innerHTML does not owrk on math elements
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  14. # [02:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 888981 from --- to FIXED.
  15. # [02:41] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 888981 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  16. # [02:41] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 888981 from --- to mozilla27.
  17. # [02:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888981 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, DownThemAll! causes browser to hang indefinitely
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  76. # [15:13] <@marcoz> Good morning yzen! :)
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  79. # [15:13] <yzen> marcoz: afternoon here (portugal) :)
  80. # [15:14] <@marcoz> yzen: Oh, right, you're still vacationing! :)
  81. # [15:15] <@marcoz> Good morning davidb! :)
  82. # [15:16] <yzen> marcoz: perhaps you might know, i m testing eeejay's mozSettings patch for accessfu, is the 'accessibility.screenreader' available in the UI somehow ?
  83. # [15:18] <@marcoz> yzen: This is Firefox OS specific I believe. And the patch for bug 916231 just now landed on Gaia last night, so one would only see the setting in the Developer options if running a local build on a device.
  84. # [15:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=916231 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, Add developer settings to enable the screen reader
  85. # [15:18] <yzen> marcoz: so not on a11y-devtool on firefox emulator ?
  86. # [15:18] <@marcoz> yzen: I believe the ScreenReader setting is similar to the AccessFu setting for Android, only that it is a toggle.
  87. # [15:19] <@marcoz> yzen: it might work.
  88. # [15:19] <yzen> ok, checking ...
  89. # [15:19] <@davidb> heyo!
  90. # [15:19] <@marcoz> yzen: But I am not a hundred percent positive on that. The setting itself has been there through a js or json preference/moz settings file for a while, but no UI in the regular simulator yet.
  91. # [15:20] <erkan^> hi (-:
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  93. # [15:27] <yzen> marcoz: would you know if it's possible to change the setting during the runtime?
  94. # [15:33] <@marcoz> yzen: The user/developer can always toggle the screen reader off again in the Settings -> Developer Settings added in the above quoted bug.
  95. # [15:34] <@marcoz> So yes, it can be turned on and off, thus the observer. if you look for the Settings API on MDN, it's all documented there.
  96. # [15:35] <@davidb> marcoz: did you hear anything about my demo?
  97. # [15:35] <@davidb> it was totally ad-lib
  98. # [15:35] <@davidb> but I think I touched the main pieces
  99. # [15:36] <@marcoz> davidb: Heh, no I actually have not. :( But I did not read all of last night's Twitter timeline.
  100. # [15:36] <@davidb> oh I'm not worried if it wasn't tweeted
  101. # [15:36] <@marcoz> davidb: What were the reactions during the demo itself?
  102. # [15:36] <@davidb> about half of the crowd payed a lot of attention which is more than usual for these kinds of things
  103. # [15:37] <@davidb> it could be because i promised to keep it short
  104. # [15:37] <@davidb> there were good questions
  105. # [15:37] <@davidb> do we have any bugs with navigating by character?
  106. # [15:37] <@davidb> it seemed to pop out of that mode
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  110. # [15:40] <@marcoz> davidb: Bug 899333 just landed which deals with granularity. This might help.
  111. # [15:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=899333 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, Pivot text traversal should traverse into the subtree
  112. # [15:40] <@davidb> ok i was using aurora
  113. # [15:41] <@davidb> oh this is fresh fresh
  114. # [15:41] <@davidb> marcoz: a couple of people asked how they could stop breaking us, and look a bit embarassed
  115. # [15:41] <@marcoz> davidb: And these granularity settings are a bit funky in any case: They seem to be changing whenever the element is changed, or at least often so. One of those inconsistencies of general Android a11y.
  116. # [15:41] <@davidb> marcoz: ah that is what i experiences
  117. # [15:41] <@davidb> d
  118. # [15:42] <@marcoz> davidb: Well, one thing they could try to make sure is always always always add contentDescription to image buttons or elements that have a graphical representation from within code. Example: The tabs button.
  119. # [15:43] <@marcoz> davidb: I also don't know if there is a compiler setting that flags missing contentDescription as errors, not warnings.
  120. # [15:43] <@davidb> would be nice
  121. # [15:43] <@marcoz> davidb: Other than that: Ping us ping us ping us test themselves test themselves test tehemselves ping us ping us ping us ;)
  122. # [15:44] <@davidb> I told them we try to do a lot of tests in our abstraction layer but for labels on buttons kind of things we need hands on for now. I showed them how to turn on and use talkback.
  123. # [15:44] <@davidb> and yes
  124. # [15:44] <@davidb> ping us and we are here in #accessibility
  125. # [15:44] <@davidb> i mentioned you eeejay and yzen of course.
  126. # [15:48] <@marcoz> davidb: Great!!!
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  129. # [16:01] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  130. # [16:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: albugo?
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  132. # [16:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it's a thing that makes callous my eyes :)
  133. # [16:12] <@tbsaunde> surkov: oic
  134. # [16:12] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd really like that binding to document just to make child id stuff work go away, its crazy we have all platforms keep hash table and all just for that
  135. # [16:13] <@surkov> yes, it'd be good but what's an alternative?
  136. # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> not sure yet
  137. # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what exactly needs to work? is it important that non child accessibles can be got?
  138. # [16:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde, do you mean when we answer WM_GETOBJECT message?
  139. # [16:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that or events are the other case right?
  140. # [16:16] <@surkov> which cache doe you want to get rid? bith?
  141. # [16:16] <@surkov> both?
  142. # [16:17] <@tbsaunde> DocAccessible::mAccessibleCache
  143. # [16:17] <@tbsaunde> the unique id stuff
  144. # [16:18] <@surkov> right, it's used on windows only to find an accessible fast
  145. # [16:19] <@surkov> the suggestion is to move this cache to windows part or get rid it at all?
  146. # [16:22] * davidb|mtg is now known as davidb
  147. # [16:22] <@tbsaunde> hm, moving it to windows part might actually be possible
  148. # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> getting rid of it would be nice if we can do it though
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  150. # [16:24] <@davidb> tbsaunde: how?
  151. # [16:24] <@davidb> (oh you were asked that)
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  153. # [16:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ideally by getting rid of a stupid API that has them
  154. # [16:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(jamie@nvaccess.or g) for attachment 804110 on bug 672717.
  155. # [16:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672717 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Broken caret when moving into/out of embedded objects with right arrow
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  157. # [16:35] <@davidb> tbsaunde: do we want to do telemetry on usage?
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  160. # [16:49] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com granted review for attachment 806145 on bug 917399.
  161. # [16:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=917399 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Remove mozContentEvent listener and listen for settings changes directly
  162. # [16:51] <@marcoz> yzen: Yay thanks!
  163. # [16:51] <yzen> :)
  164. # [16:53] <@marcoz> yzen: Out of curiosity, why is the code change you requested better than what was in the patch originally?
  165. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I get the impression its a kind of important part of how windows works
  166. # [16:56] <@davidb> tbsaunde: right… shattering your dream
  167. # [16:57] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well partially
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  169. # [16:57] <@davidb> right can still move to windows layer
  170. # [16:58] <yzen> marcoz: well addEventListener is not mentioned for some reason in the DOMRequest documentation, and onsuccess, onerror is used in all the examples
  171. # [16:58] <yzen> marcoz: i was just worried a little in case it deprecated
  172. # [16:58] <yzen> it's
  173. # [16:58] <yzen> or might get
  174. # [16:58] <@marcoz> yzen: OK! So the removeEventListener is then not needed, right? Or should onSuccess be nulled somehow?
  175. # [17:00] <yzen> marcoz, i think once we are done with req it will be cleared
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  177. # [17:06] <@marcoz> yzen: Oh nice!
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  179. # [17:23] <yzen> marcoz: my guess as long as nothing keeps a reference to it
  180. # [17:28] <@surkov> yzen: btw, any news about @ text problem?
  181. # [17:31] <yzen> surkov: not yet :( had a little time in the last couple of weeks, but it's at the top of my queue
  182. # [17:31] <@surkov> yzen: ok, that's fine, at least until it gets lost in your queue :)
  183. # [17:32] <yzen> surkov: never :)
  184. # [17:32] <@surkov> ok, great to hear :)
  185. # [17:57] <@davidb> eeejay: i'm needing to move our 1:1 next week, please decline if no good
  186. # [18:00] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 917598 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  187. # [18:00] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 806698 on bug 917598.
  188. # [18:00] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 917598 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  189. # [18:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=917598 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, ISimpleDOMNode::innerHTML does not owrk on math elements
  190. # [18:01] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 806698 on bug 917598.
  191. # [18:01] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 806700 on bug 917598.
  192. # [18:03] <@davidb> surkov, tbsaunde I'm going to try freshii today/now
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  196. # [18:30] <@eeejay> yzen, yo
  197. # [18:31] <yzen> eeejay: hi
  198. # [18:31] <@eeejay> yzen, i'm pretty sure that element.onfoo = function () {} is discouraged, no?
  199. # [18:31] <yzen> i was looking at this https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/DOMRequest
  200. # [18:32] <yzen> eeejay: ^
  201. # [18:33] <@eeejay> yzen, in actual code, they mostly use addEventListener
  202. # [18:33] * @eeejay looks
  203. # [18:33] <yzen> hmm intersring
  204. # [18:34] <yzen> interesting*
  205. # [18:34] <@eeejay> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/b2g/chrome/content/settings.js#54
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  208. # [18:44] <@eeejay> yzen, ^
  209. # [18:44] <@eeejay> it doesn't matter actually
  210. # [18:44] <yzen> eeejay: interesting i guess this change is unnecessary i mean both work nicely
  211. # [18:45] <@eeejay> since it is a local scoped thing
  212. # [18:45] <@eeejay> on elements it is bad form becasue addEventListener adds the listener to a queue, an onfoo clobbers it
  213. # [18:45] <@eeejay> i'm going with what is there
  214. # [18:46] <yzen> eeejay: sounds good
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  220. # [18:58] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 917399 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  221. # [18:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=917399 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Remove mozContentEvent listener and listen for settings changes directly
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  228. # [19:46] <@tbsaunde> cd -
  229. # [19:46] <@tbsaunde> err, that wasn't a shell
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  233. # [20:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 806313 on bug 687414.
  234. # [20:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687414 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, label_for relation is missed on label implicitly associated with control
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  238. # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, for HyperTextAccessible::IsAcceptableChild are we fine always accepting br child if its parent content isn't the same as mContent of the HyperText?
  239. # [20:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: where the rule comes from?
  240. # [20:28] * Joins: richardschwerdtfeger (richardsch@moz-252B3541.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net)
  241. # [20:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't understand your question
  242. # [20:29] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I meant I don't understand why what you describe should work
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  244. # [20:29] <@surkov> br's parent != mContent under html:input and html:text areas because of anonymous div and under xul:textbox
  245. # [20:30] <@surkov> but it is under plain html:div
  246. # [20:30] <@surkov> so relying on parent doesn't look what we need
  247. # [20:30] <@surkov> if I don't miss anything
  248. # [20:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ^
  249. # [20:31] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 917973 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  250. # [20:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=917973 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, tear off ISimpleDOMDocument
  251. # [20:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, so then how does IsAcceptableChild tell if accessible is last br for hypertext?
  252. # [20:33] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  253. # [20:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: check next sibling element doesn't work?
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  255. # [20:34] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what if the br is under non accessible element, but after that element there's another accessible?
  256. # [20:35] <@surkov> it's like <span><br></span>
  257. # [20:35] <@surkov> good question
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  259. # [20:37] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com denied review for attachment 806313 on bug 687414.
  260. # [20:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687414 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, label_for relation is missed on label implicitly associated with control
  261. # [20:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, something like that
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  264. # [20:51] <@tbsaunde> surkov: idea?
  265. # [20:52] <@surkov> not yet
  266. # [20:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: frame tree should know, ask roc how to detect last br?
  267. # [21:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, do we only care about last br for document, or arbitrary hyper text?
  268. # [21:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: arbitrary
  269. # [21:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why would layout know?
  270. # [21:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it has lines so if br belongs to last line then if I understand right we should ignore it since it doesn't affect on layout
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  276. # [21:38] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 918014 filed by kwierso@gmail.com.
  277. # [21:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=918014 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | test_focus_browserui.xul | Exited with code 1 during test run |
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  282. # [22:30] * nhirata is now known as nhirata|meeting
  283. # [22:35] <@davidb> eeejay: nice (bug 904687)
  284. # [22:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=904687 nor, --, mozilla27, eitan, VERI FIXED, Introduce Pico speech synthesis service
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  286. # [22:50] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 806881 on bug 687414.
  287. # [22:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687414 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, label_for relation is missed on label implicitly associated with control
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  291. # [23:02] <sfoster> surkov, I tracked down the change that broke soft keyboard support and produces the "We must reach document accessible implementing nsIAccessibleText!" exception
  292. # [23:03] <@surkov> sfoster: yeah, I saw in the bug. but regardless the fix did you manage to find a minimal test case where the bug can be seen?
  293. # [23:03] <@surkov> until we have a problem in a11y tree update the bug can pop up in other place
  294. # [23:03] <sfoster> surkov, I think so, let me go back to the minimal chrome I had and check for you.
  295. # [23:04] <@surkov> cool, thank you
  296. # [23:04] <@surkov> sfoster: please attach the patch to the bug so I can try
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  301. # [23:59] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 806881 on bug 687414.
  302. # [23:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687414 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, label_for relation is missed on label implicitly associated with control
  303. # Session Close: Thu Sep 19 00:00:00 2013

The end :)