/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-09-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 25 00:00:01 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:20] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org cancelled needinfo?(jamie@nvaccess.or g) on bug 900835.
  4. # [00:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=900835 cri, --, mozilla26, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash in nsEventStateManager::PreHandleEvent(nsPresContext*, nsEvent*, nsIFrame*, nsEventStatus*)
  5. # [00:21] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Status on bug 900835 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  6. # [00:22] <@firebot> anthony.s.hughes@gmail.com set status-firefox26 to verified on bug 900835.
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  24. # [03:29] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 920324 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  25. # [03:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920324 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Add spinbutton and slider to standard traversal rule
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  29. # [03:58] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 809593 on bug 920324.
  30. # [03:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920324 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Add spinbutton and slider to standard traversal rule
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  36. # [04:51] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 920033 from --- to FIXED.
  37. # [04:51] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 920033 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  38. # [04:51] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 920033 from --- to mozilla27.
  39. # [04:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920033 nor, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, shut up the over loaded virtual warning for Accessible::GroupPosition()
  40. # [04:56] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 881636 from --- to FIXED.
  41. # [04:57] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 881636 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  42. # [04:57] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 881636 from --- to mozilla27.
  43. # [04:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
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  45. # [06:52] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 809593 on bug 920324.
  46. # [06:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920324 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Add spinbutton and slider to standard traversal rule
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  49. # [07:01] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 920371 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  50. # [07:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920371 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] All combobox options are spoken when landing on a select item
  51. # [07:30] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 809657 on bug 920371.
  52. # [07:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920371 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] All combobox options are spoken when landing on a select item
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  54. # [07:36] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 920324 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  55. # [07:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920324 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Add spinbutton and slider to standard traversal rule
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  67. # [08:58] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 920371 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  68. # [08:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920371 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] All combobox options are spoken when landing on a select item
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  72. # [09:18] <@marcoz> Wow, eeejay, you're on fire tonight! ;) Lots of good stuff!
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  88. # [14:01] <SteveF> surkov: fixed bug script issue on api guide
  89. # [14:01] <@surkov> SteveF: yeah, I saw it, thank you
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  91. # [14:03] <SteveF> surkov: in firefox when a javascript alert() is displayed what state is the html content in the page in?
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  93. # [14:04] <@surkov> SteveF: in a11y?
  94. # [14:04] <@surkov> but honestly I don't know how alert() is implemented
  95. # [14:04] <SteveF> surkov:yes, i.e. how does it stop windows SR's from accessing the content in virtual mode
  96. # [14:05] <SteveF> surkov: am asking beacuse HTML5 has an inert attribute that is mapped to disabled state, but doesn't seem to stop SR's from accessing text content
  97. # [14:05] <@surkov> right
  98. # [14:06] <@surkov> perhaps it's separate modal window?
  99. # [14:06] <@surkov> wen need to ask jamie
  100. # [14:06] <marcoz> SteveF: "disabled" does not stop access to anything, it just prevents focusing elements. Stoping access to text would mean making stuff invisible/prune them from the accessibility tree.
  101. # [14:07] <marcoz> SteveF: surkov: A JS alert is definitely a modal window.
  102. # [14:08] <SteveF> marcoz: so it sounds like inert would be better mapped to hidden in acc layer
  103. # [14:09] <SteveF> marcoz: note when inert is enabled on a dom tree content is still visible, but you cannot interact with it, unable to select text for example
  104. # [14:09] <SteveF> marrcoz: its more like an image of the page
  105. # [14:10] <marcoz> SteveF: Yeah, screen readers would have to honor that. But because of virtual buffers being such a completely separated concept, selecting text within the virtual buffer would still work, undoubtedly. It would just say "grayed" or "disabled" to focusable elements.
  106. # [14:11] <marcoz> SteveF: The two screen readers which would notice the difference would be Orca and VoiceOver, because these have no virtual buffers. Oh and Firefox for Android + TalkBack of course, if this is also applicable to mobile.
  107. # [14:11] <SteveF> rmarcoz: right, but thats not what is needed for jaws/nvda etc. the page content needs to be hidden
  108. # [14:12] <marcoz> SteveF: Exactly.
  109. # [14:12] <SteveF> marcoz: thanks that's what I was thinking.
  110. # [14:26] <SteveF> marcoz:surkov: so if I am trying to define how inert should work in acc layer for MSAA\IA2 any ideas?
  111. # [14:27] <SteveF> marcoz: surkov: relevant definition of inert in spec http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/editing.html#inert
  112. # [14:31] <SteveF> marcoz: surkov: further reading indicates that display of a modal dialog is a special case of inert, so in this case only inert could map to aria-hidden (for html mapping purposes) and in other cases map to disabled
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  116. # [14:44] <@surkov> SteveF: I'd say we need special state for it
  117. # [14:44] <@surkov> SteveF: file Mozilla bug, we can get some discussion there?
  118. # [14:45] <@surkov> like see what Jamie thinks
  119. # [14:45] <SteveF> surkov: ok there is a special case defining it in html spec at moment in aria section will file bug
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  122. # [15:03] <SteveF> surkov: have updated spec and associated (HTML bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23321) for now, please review when you get a chance) will need to define in more granular way for API guide
  123. # [15:04] <@surkov> sure
  124. # [15:10] <@davidb> Heyo
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  126. # [15:25] <icaaq> Hi, a question I got from a designer at work today.. if I add text-shadow to a element, should I check the contrast against the text-shadow or the background-color?
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  130. # [15:31] <@davidb> icaaq: i can't think of an always correct answer to that
  131. # [15:32] <SteveF> davidb: fence sitter
  132. # [15:32] <@davidb> the view is nice up here
  133. # [15:39] <icaaq> davidb: no, me neither.
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  136. # [15:45] <zippo^> hello, has Firefox more accessibility as contrast (negative)?
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  144. # [16:27] <SteveF> surkov: see reply on bug, javscript alert() appears to hide document tree in firefox
  145. # [16:28] <@surkov> yep, interesting
  146. # [16:28] <@surkov> SteveF: you know what about other browser?
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  148. # [16:37] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 920547 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  149. # [16:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920547 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, create generic accessibles for mathml elements
  150. # [16:51] <SteveF> surkov: IE has state of doc set to unavailable [MSAA]
  151. # [16:52] <@surkov> hm
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  153. # [17:08] <SteveF> surkov: digging further document is available in firefox, but as i said before alert takes up viewport dimensions so doc underneath cannot be accessed with AT
  154. # [17:11] <@surkov> SteveF: right, just transparent window (just commented to the bug)
  155. # [17:11] <@surkov> few minutes ago
  156. # [17:11] <SteveF> ok thnks
  157. # [17:29] <SteveF> surkov: may be worth looking at the chrome bug that started this disussion http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=264959 see dominics comments towards bottom
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  159. # [17:32] <SteveF> surkov: be good if we could get implementation for it defined in AAPI in a form that at least firefox and chrome do interoperably
  160. # [17:41] <@marcoz> Right now, FF OS accessibility really still is a firehose and nothing for the faint of heart. A few weeks ago, the keyboard was working nicely, now, this: bug 919922.
  161. # [17:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=919922 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Keyboard does not come to the foreground in current Gaia master for accessibility
  162. # [17:42] <@davidb> i expect regressions
  163. # [17:43] <@marcoz> davidb: Me too. Only problem is if they block you from testing virtually *anything*. ;)
  164. # [17:43] <@davidb> oh. yeah.
  165. # [17:59] <@marcoz> Wonder if eeejay has any ideas about bug 919922 yet. Or if he is encountering it at all....
  166. # [17:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=919922 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Keyboard does not come to the foreground in current Gaia master for accessibility
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  168. # [18:15] <@marcoz> Come on, folks, uplift inbound to central! Pleeeeeeaaaaaaaase!
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  170. # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: have you tried to test for regressions from bug 881636 at all? (most likely problem would be stuff not updating)
  171. # [18:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
  172. # [18:33] <@surkov> SteveF: what browser do implement inert already?
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  174. # [18:43] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: Plan to do that tomorrow. I was waiting for a nightly build to have the fix. :)
  175. # [18:44] <@tbsaunde> I think it should be in todays but not sure
  176. # [18:44] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: Yeah probably, but I was focused on mobile today.
  177. # [18:44] <@marcoz> Am going off for the evening now. See you tomorrow!
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  189. # [19:20] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 809896 on bug 920547.
  190. # [19:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920547 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, create generic accessibles for mathml elements
  191. # [19:24] <@eeejay> yzen, howdy
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  199. # [20:16] <@firebot> anthony.s.hughes@gmail.com set status-firefox25 to verified on bug 900835.
  200. # [20:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=900835 cri, --, mozilla26, surkov.alexander, VERI FIXED, crash in nsEventStateManager::PreHandleEvent(nsPresContext*, nsEvent*, nsIFrame*, nsEventStatus*)
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  214. # [20:34] <@firebot> anthony.s.hughes@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 881636 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  215. # [20:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, VERI FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
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  219. # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, it seems layout doesn't really keep track of brs so we'd need to do something O(N) in IsAcceptableChild() for HyperTextAccessible, so I'm tempted to leave that particular cacheChildren() I guess...
  220. # [20:56] <@surkov> ok
  221. # [21:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: on the other hand maybe we should just think about how brs are represented more
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  223. # [21:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what do you mean?
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  226. # [21:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, isn't it kind of funny usually you get accessible for br but not in special case
  227. # [21:02] <@tbsaunde> also do they get embedded object treatment, or we include there text in the parent hyper text?
  228. # [21:03] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 920371 from --- to FIXED.
  229. # [21:03] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 920371 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  230. # [21:03] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 920371 from --- to mozilla27.
  231. # [21:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920371 nor, --, mozilla27, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] All combobox options are spoken when landing on a select item
  232. # [21:04] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 920324 from --- to FIXED.
  233. # [21:04] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 920324 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  234. # [21:04] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 920324 from --- to mozilla27.
  235. # [21:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920324 nor, --, mozilla27, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Add spinbutton and slider to standard traversal rule
  236. # [21:04] <@tbsaunde> I guess they don't actually
  237. # [21:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because layout treats \n char in a bit strange way imo, if line has then it doesn't mean there's new line
  238. # [21:04] <@tbsaunde> it doesn't feel that strange to me
  239. # [21:04] <@surkov> so we just ignore it last br in accessible tree and accessible text
  240. # [21:05] <@tbsaunde> yeah, but isn't that kind of funny?
  241. # [21:05] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  242. # [21:05] <@surkov> mm, then probably we should change the text iface logic
  243. # [21:05] <@tbsaunde> so, what if instead what we do is say HTMLBRAccessible has empty text if it has no next sibling?
  244. # [21:06] <@surkov> I considered \n as a line break, not matter whether the next line has something or not
  245. # [21:06] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I think br is wrong model for what br does
  246. # [21:06] <@surkov> perhaps we could do that, not sure how we handle empty text accessible text though
  247. # [21:07] <@tbsaunde> I guess we'd need to check, but it feels like its inline with what layout does
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  252. # [21:24] <SteveF> surkov: still not clear on screen mag argument , when you have a modal dialog it is meant to capture focus and interrupt the users interaction with the rest of the doc until they have responded or dismissed the modal, why would hiding the rest of the doc in the acc tree negatively effect users?
  253. # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> SteveF: its still actually on screen?
  254. # [21:27] <@surkov> SteveF: probably not really negatively, just visible thing for sighted users not visible for AT users
  255. # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> so if say a screen mag asks what's at something outside of the modal window what do you tell it?
  256. # [21:27] <@surkov> they probably wont' need it agree
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  258. # [21:29] <@surkov> also modal probably wont'/shoudln't stop things like video/audio running and it makes sense to expose thme
  259. # [21:30] <SteveF> surkov: is that not the same for other AT such as SR's also in the case of the firefox modal alert, there is an overlay that makes it very difficult to read for a user with average vision...
  260. # [21:31] <SteveF> surkov: but i think thats ok because its not meant to be read when the modal is present
  261. # [21:33] <SteveF> surkov: will check with screen mag with the various browsers to check behaviour when a modal is dislplayed
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  263. # [21:34] <SteveF> surkov: FYI not against exposing underlying content, but would like to get method implemented that does not allow SR readers to just fall out of the modal into disabled content, that is one of the main issues with custom dialogs on the web
  264. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> iirc windows screen readers generally let you review what's outside a native modal window too...
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  271. # [22:16] <@surkov> SteveF: sure, so am I :) just want to be careful about cutting the tree apporach
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  275. # [22:33] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from bugs@pettay.fi for attachment 810106 on bug 915558.
  276. # [22:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=915558 cri, P1, ---, nobody, REOP, XUL UI completely broken in Windows: Tabs, menus, etc.
  277. # [22:38] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 920738 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  278. # [22:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920738 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, don't unbind accessibles in XULTextfieldAccessible::CacheChildren()
  279. # [22:40] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 810109 on bug 920738.
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  283. # [23:35] <@firebot> bugs@pettay.fi denied review for attachment 810106 on bug 915558.
  284. # [23:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=915558 cri, P1, ---, nobody, REOP, XUL UI completely broken in Windows: Tabs, menus, etc.
  285. # Session Close: Thu Sep 26 00:00:00 2013

The end :)