/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-10-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Oct 01 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  8. # [00:52] <cabanier> who here is familiar with canvas focus rings?
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  10. # [00:53] <cabanier> or has an opinion on them?
  11. # [00:54] <@tbsaunde> its kind of late for those people to around davidb and surkov are both in toronto
  12. # [00:57] <@surkov> cabanier: in what sense familiar? I read the proposed spec but I don't know the code
  13. # [01:02] <cabanier> surkov: do you think the API sounds reasonable?
  14. # [01:02] <cabanier> surkov: would you object if it was implemented in FF?
  15. # [01:03] <cabanier> surkov: FF has no implementation so I'm working on one
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  17. # [01:20] <@eeejay> surkov, ping?
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  20. # [01:56] <@eeejay> davidb, heyo
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  25. # [02:12] <@davidb> Howdy
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  31. # [02:50] <@surkov> cabanier: yes, I know, more or less reasonable, if I designed it then probably I would end up with something else, but it might be ok as the first approach
  32. # [02:50] <@surkov> cabanier: anyway you'd need to reach some content team guys
  33. # [02:50] <@surkov> for example smaug
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  35. # [02:59] <cabanier> surkov: Thanks!
  36. # [03:00] <@surkov> thanks to you
  37. # [03:00] <cabanier> surkov: do you know where he hangs out?
  38. # [03:00] <@surkov> #developers
  39. # [03:00] <@surkov> everybody there
  40. # [03:01] <cabanier> ok.
  41. # [03:01] <cabanier> going over there
  42. # [03:01] <@surkov> he's in europe so might be not there now
  43. # [03:01] <cabanier> yeah. I don't see him
  44. # [03:01] <cabanier> I'll ping him tomorrow
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  46. # [03:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 748639 from nishantg2108@gmail.com to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  47. # [03:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 812378 on bug 748639.
  48. # [03:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748639 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, add set of internal accessible relation types
  49. # [03:12] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(nishantg2108@gmai l.com) on bug 748639.
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  52. # [03:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hm, any reason not to use mfbt/TypedEnum.h stuff instead of typedef and namespace hacks?
  53. # [03:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: just following pattern
  54. # [03:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, I'd like to make Roles.h used TypedEnum.h at some point I htink just haven't had time / priorities
  55. # [03:27] <@surkov> I never used TypedEnum.h
  56. # [03:28] <@tbsaunde> well, you don't need it that often ;)
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  63. # [04:14] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Status on bug 920547 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  64. # [04:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920547 nor, --, mozilla27, surkov.alexander, VERI FIXED, create generic accessibles for mathml elements
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  88. # [12:01] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 922184 from --- to FIXED.
  89. # [12:01] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 922184 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  90. # [12:01] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 922184 from --- to mozilla27.
  91. # [12:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=922184 nor, --, mozilla27, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, move IAccessible2 implementation into separate class
  92. # [12:02] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 920738 from --- to FIXED.
  93. # [12:02] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 920738 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  94. # [12:02] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 920738 from --- to mozilla27.
  95. # [12:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920738 nor, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, don't unbind accessibles in XULTextfieldAccessible::CacheChildren()
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  102. # [14:29] * @davidb hunts bus
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  108. # [15:21] <davidb> heyo
  109. # [15:26] <@marcoz> Heyo davidb!
  110. # [15:26] <davidb> hi hi
  111. # [15:30] <@tbsaunde> davidb: with a spear?
  112. # [15:30] <davidb> tbsaunde: hmmm?
  113. # [15:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: just curious whatthe connical wapon to hunt a bus is
  114. # [15:31] <davidb> ahhh
  115. # [15:31] <davidb> sometimes i think a bicycle would be good bait
  116. # [15:35] <@tbsaunde> heh
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  125. # [16:37] <davidb> marcoz: do you mind taking a peek at bug 920120?
  126. # [16:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920120 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Starting with SM2.21, NVDA no longer sees graphic images when pressing G or shift-G to move to the n
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  128. # [16:43] <@marcoz> davidb: Just did. No idea what's going on at David's end. I cannot reproduce this in either SeaMonkey 2.21 or Firefox, both current release and Nightly.
  129. # [16:43] <davidb> ok
  130. # [16:44] <davidb> the test case seems fragile… since it involves a search
  131. # [16:44] <@marcoz> Yeah, but I get search results. I used the "little women" suggestion he provided. I get results, and also graphics like "Texts", "Movies" etc.
  132. # [16:45] <davidb> ok
  133. # [16:45] <davidb> i did the search too and got results...
  134. # [16:45] <davidb> didn't try nvda though
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  138. # [17:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: surkov I'm thinking of heading over to mmystic muffin for lunch so I can grab a apple cake for this evening fwiw
  139. # [17:45] <@surkov> I'm home today
  140. # [17:46] <davidb> that's probably about a 30 min walk
  141. # [17:46] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, was planning on street caring it
  142. # [17:47] <@marcoz> Fun! Dear colleagues, if I shout out a cry for help on the B2G list, can't just *someone* step up and say clearly that the ZTE phones currently aren't compatible with Central or even Aurora code? Do I have to find out myself by digging in the virtually hundreds of RIL builds! Grrrrrrrrrrr!
  143. # [17:47] <davidb> maybe not many people know
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  145. # [17:49] <davidb> eeejay: you awake?
  146. # [17:54] <@marcoz> davidb: That's certainly possible, but I thought at least *someone* would. ;)
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  149. # [18:00] <davidb> eeeeeeeeejay!
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  153. # [18:27] <davidb> eeejay: oh let's stay on
  154. # [18:27] <@eeejay> davidb, still there
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  156. # [18:42] <@eeejay> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869280
  157. # [18:42] <@firebot> Bug 869280 nor, --, mozilla24, eitan, RESO FIXED, Add temporary modal subtree to pivot API
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  162. # [19:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so are you convinced to used TypedEnum.h for relations?
  163. # [19:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what is a background of it?
  164. # [19:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: please rephrase?
  165. # [19:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I mean what is idea of TypedEnum?
  166. # [19:37] <@surkov> what benefits are?
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  168. # [19:50] <@tbsaunde> surkov: gets you the namespaceing without typedef and namespace weirdness
  169. # [19:53] <@surkov> having namespaces, I have things like RelType (a type) and rels::LABEL_FOR what looks nice. What will I have using TypedEnum?
  170. # [19:55] <@tbsaunde> I think the only change should be RelType::LABEL_FOR instead of rels::LABEL_FOR which I'd say you should do anyway
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  172. # [20:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why?
  173. # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: because what does "rels" mean its really odd
  174. # [20:07] <@surkov> just a namespace for constants
  175. # [20:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'd safe this change for a next time because 1) rels namespace doesn't look really bad 2) it's consistent with roles and states 3) the change will require some merging in my patch queue
  176. # [20:10] <@tbsaunde> how is it consistant? roles and states are english words, rels is very much not
  177. # [20:10] <@tbsaunde> is running sed really that hard?
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  182. # [20:24] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 922751 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  183. # [20:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=922751 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide a state or method to distinguish obscured elements
  184. # [20:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: consistent in terms they are in lowercase, merging is not really hard, just might be time consuming since you need to del with rejected and then rebuild to make it's working
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  186. # [20:25] <@eeejay> davidb, surkov, tbsaunde, i'm curious what you guys think about the bug above ^
  187. # [20:25] <@surkov> eeejay: isn't it covered by invisible?
  188. # [20:26] <@surkov> state
  189. # [20:26] <@eeejay> surkov, not currently
  190. # [20:26] * @eeejay triple checks
  191. # [20:26] <@surkov> eeejay: I'd say it should be (iirc we had a bug)
  192. # [20:26] <@surkov> and if not then I've been asked to file it but I didn't
  193. # [20:27] <@eeejay> surkov, i am afraid of false positives if we suddenly change the behavior of invisible
  194. # [20:27] <@eeejay> ah, ok
  195. # [20:27] <@surkov> eeejay: do you need a separate state or invisible works for you?
  196. # [20:27] <@surkov> yeah, it could be
  197. # [20:27] <@surkov> but other APIs don't have obscured state
  198. # [20:27] <@eeejay> surkov, for my issues, invisible is perfect. but i am afraid it would break things on desktop
  199. # [20:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: just ignore the rejected hunks and run sed s/rels::/RelationType/g again
  200. # [20:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that works if nothing around was rejected
  201. # [20:29] <@surkov> anyway, it could survive merging if I was sure I like the change
  202. # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> oh, because mercurial forces you to through away one side not the other
  203. # [20:31] * @tbsaunde really dislikes rels::
  204. # [20:32] <@davidb> eeejay: I'll mull it over soon. (In transit)
  205. # [20:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we have role:: and states::
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  207. # [20:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes, and those are words and so make sense
  208. # [20:35] <@eeejay> surkov, yeah. it is not the case today. http://people.mozilla.org/~eisaacson/obscured_objects.html
  209. # [20:35] <@eeejay> Red should be invisible
  210. # [20:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but rels is short version of relations
  211. # [20:35] <@surkov> I could do relations:: but it's longer
  212. # [20:36] <@tbsaunde> relation::
  213. # [20:36] <@tbsaunde> ?
  214. # [20:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: plural is in use
  215. # [20:37] <@surkov> roles and states
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  217. # [20:38] * @tbsaunde tends to think not plural makes more sense
  218. # [20:38] * @eeejay -> lunch
  219. # [20:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if you dislike these states:: and roles:: then it makes file a bug
  220. # [20:40] <@surkov> and I would keep that rels:: for that bug :)
  221. # [20:41] <@tbsaunde> and I just do what makes sense for new things and change old things later
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  232. # [21:13] <@surkov> that later never gets closer
  233. # [21:15] <@tbsaunde> you're free to make it if you care enough
  234. # [21:49] <@davidb|afk> eeejay: and what state does red have currently? non invisible i presume?
  235. # [21:50] <@eeejay> davidb|afk, correct
  236. # [21:50] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  237. # [21:50] <@davidb> hmm
  238. # [21:50] <@davidb> eeejay: what if red was in tab order?
  239. # [21:50] <@davidb> i guess that is moot
  240. # [21:51] <@eeejay> not really
  241. # [21:51] * @eeejay tests with thickbox
  242. # [21:51] <@davidb> eeejay: what if red was there and the blue square slid animated over it?
  243. # [21:51] <@davidb> should it become invisible?
  244. # [21:51] <@davidb> should there be a state change?
  245. # [21:51] <@davidb> event
  246. # [21:52] <@davidb> (just probing here)
  247. # [21:52] <@davidb> what if the red box was hidden only because the screen was pinched?
  248. # [21:52] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah, i am looking into a state change event
  249. # [21:52] <@eeejay> davidb, it may not be worth it
  250. # [21:52] <@davidb> right
  251. # [21:53] <@davidb> some cases yes some cases no
  252. # [21:53] <@davidb> i think what really matters is web dev intention.
  253. # [21:53] <@davidb> (and we can't guess that in all cases)
  254. # [21:54] * @davidb sighs
  255. # [21:55] <@eeejay> davidb, that is a good argument for another state, and not to fold this in to invisible
  256. # [21:55] <@eeejay> we do the same thing with the opaque state
  257. # [21:56] <@davidb> i'm okay with another state - especially if we are sure what we want doesn't match with the msdn docs for the MSAA states
  258. # [21:57] <@davidb> it would be good to ask other AT
  259. # [21:57] <@davidb> but you are a good AT resource now :)
  260. # [21:59] <@davidb> eeejay: i see what you meant by making sure pointer events are not handled in the obscured area… that is critical.
  261. # [21:59] <@davidb> i think i grok you
  262. # [21:59] <@eeejay> cool :)
  263. # [22:00] <@eeejay> the tab order is tricky. that is also why it shouldn't be invisible
  264. # [22:01] <@davidb> right
  265. # [22:02] <@davidb> (i think)
  266. # [22:02] <@davidb> then there is offscreen.
  267. # [22:02] <@davidb> eeejay: did you consider offscreen?
  268. # [22:03] <@eeejay> davidb, possibly. although i think offscreen is already tricky
  269. # [22:04] <@eeejay> davidb, for example, offscreen signifies that you could scroll to it. or not.
  270. # [22:04] <@eeejay> ie. negative coordinates
  271. # [22:04] * @davidb nods
  272. # [22:04] <@eeejay> this would add another case
  273. # [22:05] <@davidb> offscreen seems like it *should* work though
  274. # [22:05] <@davidb> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vsaccessibility/archive/2004/09/20/232157.aspx
  275. # [22:05] <@davidb> bbiab
  276. # [22:05] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  277. # [22:12] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  278. # [22:16] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  279. # [22:18] * Quits: @davidb|afk (davidb@moz-DD8B18E3.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: davidb|afk)
  280. # [22:23] * Quits: clown_mtg (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  281. # [22:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 843926 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  282. # [22:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 812812 on bug 843926.
  283. # [22:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=843926 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Update ATK headers
  284. # [22:35] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@74F7CB6C.E80E6317.6BEEAEBD.IP) (Quit: surkov)
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  290. # Session Close: Wed Oct 02 00:00:00 2013

The end :)