/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-10-17 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  41. # [07:29] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 818246 on bug 924896.
  42. # [07:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
  43. # [07:29] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested review from eitan@monotonous.or g for attachment 818247 on bug 924896.
  44. # [07:29] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested feedback from marco.zehe@google mail.com for attachment 818247 on bug 924896.
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  68. # [10:53] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted feedback for attachment 818247 on bug 924896.
  69. # [10:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
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  94. # [13:52] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from jamie@nvaccess.or g on bug 924896.
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  96. # [13:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
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  100. # [14:02] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 917598 from --- to FIXED.
  101. # [14:02] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 917598 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  102. # [14:02] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 917598 from --- to mozilla27.
  103. # [14:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=917598 nor, --, mozilla27, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, ISimpleDOMNode::innerHTML does not work on math elements
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  114. # [15:10] <@davidb> heyo!
  115. # [15:10] * @davidb stalks caffeine
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  118. # [15:50] <@marcoz> Good morning davidb! :)
  119. # [15:50] <@davidb> hi marcoz :)
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  123. # [16:02] <@marcoz> yzen: If that one bug isn't enough fun, feel free to also grab bug 923139. I have a feeling our over-all support is still too unstable for me to accurately find the errors and not be fooled by stuff that is "available" when actually off-screen.
  124. # [16:02] <SteveF> davidb: why u afraid to put camel toe in water on bug 670928 ? ;-)
  125. # [16:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=923139 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make the phone app accessible
  126. # [16:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928 enh, --, ---, eitan, REOP, HTML5 element and WAI-ARIA landmark roles easily navigable in Firefox
  127. # [16:02] <@davidb> are you mixing metaphors? :)
  128. # [16:02] <SteveF> sure
  129. # [16:03] <yzen> marcoz: i can try :)
  130. # [16:03] <SteveF> i just found the juxtaposition of you and camel toe irresistible
  131. # [16:04] <@davidb> i'll admit i am curious why but will not ask.
  132. # [16:04] <yzen> marcoz: are you testing on the device ?
  133. # [16:05] * Tomcat|sheriffduty is now known as Tomcat
  134. # [16:05] <@davidb> SteveF: looks like the team suggested an add-on to start with.
  135. # [16:05] <@davidb> there are lots of comments on this bug
  136. # [16:05] <@davidb> so i call bankruptcy given my todo list this morning
  137. # [16:06] <@marcoz> yzen: Yes. There is no way for me within Desktop Firefox to simulate explore by touch with NVDA. You have to use a physical mouse to do that, so the only way I have is to test on a device.
  138. # [16:06] <SteveF> "looks like the team suggested an add-on to start with." we have that
  139. # [16:06] <@davidb> SteveF: is it linked in the bug?
  140. # [16:06] <@davidb> https://github.com/matatk/landmarks/blob/master/README.md
  141. # [16:06] <@davidb> ah ^
  142. # [16:07] <@marcoz> yzen: The problem is that the screen reader still often shows me stuff that isn't actually visible, but which *feels* visible. So, I'd constantly need someone sighted to tell me if what I'm feeling is actually accurate or bogus. And I don't have someone available to do that all the time.
  143. # [16:07] * Tomcat is now known as Tomcat|afk
  144. # [16:07] <@davidb> SteveF: so we need to get that on AMO
  145. # [16:08] <yzen> marcoz: right, ill try applying your patch and playing around with tit
  146. # [16:08] <yzen> it
  147. # [16:08] <SteveF> AMO?
  148. # [16:09] <@davidb> addons.mozilla.org - i commented in bug
  149. # [16:09] <yzen> surkov: so should i go ahead with xml-roles then ?
  150. # [16:10] <yzen> or marcoz do you have a comment re bug 924896
  151. # [16:10] <SteveF> davidb: am also waiting on response from boriss on why not add
  152. # [16:10] <@surkov> yzen: if it doesn't burn out then let's wait for jamie feedback
  153. # [16:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
  154. # [16:10] <@surkov> and marco
  155. # [16:11] <yzen> surkov: sounds good, i for some reason thought your last comment was from him :S
  156. # [16:12] <@surkov> ok :)
  157. # [16:13] <@surkov> also that should mean that my english is getting better :)
  158. # [16:14] <@davidb> your australian is improving
  159. # [16:14] <@davidb> mate
  160. # [16:14] <@davidb> probably hanging out with SteveF too much
  161. # [16:15] <SteveF> :-)
  162. # [16:29] <@marcoz> hahah!
  163. # [16:29] <@marcoz> yzen: surkov: I think xml-roles may not be accurate, since we are not talking about a new *role* here, as with landmarks whose xml-role is deduced by an actual role attribute.
  164. # [16:30] <@marcoz> yzen: surkov: I actually think "type" is more accurate here since the role is always the same, it's always an input. Only the type determines which kind. Is it a text input for an e-mail address, search term, URL, phone number, etc.? In all cases it is a text input.
  165. # [16:31] <@surkov> marcoz: role concept can be described input types I think
  166. # [16:31] <@surkov> marcoz: what about input@type="button"?
  167. # [16:32] <@marcoz> surkov: input @type="button" is its own widget. It is clearly defined in HTML as a widget that is very different from a text field.
  168. # [16:32] <@davidb> maybe marcoz would be more comfortable with something like computed-role
  169. # [16:32] <@surkov> but if would expose type="button" object attribute in current patch
  170. # [16:33] <@surkov> email, URL, phone are data types, search is rather landmark thing
  171. # [16:33] <@marcoz> The @type "email" etc. have more evaluation type meanings, the widget type is the same, it's an input. Merely, on soft keyboard devices, the keyboard shown differs, and the HTML 5 form validation rules apply. For example, an e-mail address without an @ sign and proper .tld will cause the input to go into an "invalid" state, whereas an input type "text" or "search" will not. But in all cases, it is a text input field.
  172. # [16:34] <@surkov> what password field make it special?
  173. # [16:34] <@surkov> it's also entry but have own role
  174. # [16:34] <@marcoz> surkov: Password is defined in a11y APIs as a separate widget. :)
  175. # [16:35] <@surkov> so it can be done the same for other input types
  176. # [16:35] <@marcoz> surkov: In theory, yes. However, password is distinctly different in that the text you type is not shown.
  177. # [16:35] <@marcoz> In all other cases, it is.
  178. # [16:35] <@surkov> davidb: do ARIA plans to have something similar to url, phone or search widgets?
  179. # [16:35] <@davidb> maybe
  180. # [16:36] <@surkov> if so then it would be mapped into xml-roles
  181. # [16:36] <@surkov> automatically if we won't prevent it by special checks
  182. # [16:36] <@marcoz> surkov: And an input @type="search" also brings up a special keyboard, one that has a "Search" button in the lower right corner rather than a simple "enter". So it is not a landmark like role="search", which would anyway encompass a whole region, not just a single widget.
  183. # [16:36] <@surkov> davidb: but all it suites the ARIA concept?
  184. # [16:37] <@surkov> marcoz: would AT need to differentiate input@type="search" from ARIA search landmark?
  185. # [16:38] <@surkov> or they rather need unique mechanism for this?
  186. # [16:38] <@davidb> i can only say we should avoid fragility
  187. # [16:40] <@marcoz> surkov: Like I said, "search" landmark can be on anything, even the input itself, but also on a containing form or div element.
  188. # [16:41] <@marcoz> surkov: So if there is a label or any other info before that input, which is part of the landmark region, we'd want the screen reader to land on that bit of info, and not make another stop at the input itself when the "go to next landmark" command is used.
  189. # [16:41] <@marcoz> surkov: So yes, screen readers need to differenciate between a search landmark and an input whose type is search.
  190. # [16:41] <@surkov> marcoz: does it mean AT would not really need an unique way to access this one?
  191. # [16:41] <@marcoz> surkov: Right.
  192. # [16:42] <@surkov> marcoz: so <input role="search" type="search"> is what AT need to differentiate?
  193. # [16:42] <@marcoz> surkov: In Mac land search is a different sub role to a role of text field.
  194. # [16:43] <@marcoz> surkov: *if* role="search" is on the input, the landmark navigation should land there. If it is on a form or text *before* the input type="search", AT should land on that other bit, and not again on the search input itself.
  195. # [16:43] <@surkov> ok, at least search sometimes is mapped to role mechanism, what about url,emails, phones?
  196. # [16:44] <@surkov> I see, that complicates things
  197. # [16:44] <@davidb> marcoz: just curious what 'land' means in this context
  198. # [16:44] <@marcoz> surkov: Mac land does not know about these. Only iOS does, and they have different mechanisms alltogether. They do it by AccessibilityTraits to an input widget.
  199. # [16:44] <@marcoz> davidb: "land" means "virtual cursor moves to".
  200. # [16:45] <@davidb> ok
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  217. # [17:54] <SteveF> so mozillians feedback on this bug would be helpful: section should only map to region if the section has an accessible name https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23545
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  219. # [17:57] <@davidb> SteveF: are you implying you are not a mozillian?
  220. # [17:58] <SteveF> davidb: no sorry forgot to say "My fellow..."
  221. # [17:58] <@davidb> very well.
  222. # [17:59] <@davidb> marco may have thought about this the most
  223. # [17:59] <@davidb> it seems reasonable but maybe not obvious… as in it will need to be a learned thing
  224. # [17:59] <@davidb> for web devs who care
  225. # [18:00] <@davidb> all 9 of them
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  227. # [18:03] <SteveF> there is a reason for it, also i would suggest that there needs to be in browser or AT a labeledby relationship with first heading in section
  228. # [18:04] <SteveF> so not need to be learned, sections have become an annoyance (so users say) due to misuse
  229. # [18:06] <@davidb> ah ok
  230. # [18:06] <@davidb> so actively filter out in a sense
  231. # [18:06] <@davidb> unless has a name
  232. # [18:06] <@davidb> seems ok
  233. # [18:07] <@davidb> whether the filtering happens in browser or AT is not described i suppose
  234. # [18:07] <@davidb> prescribed
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  236. # [18:10] <SteveF> davidb: well it may be a browser requirement thats why I was asking for feedback
  237. # [18:10] <SteveF> currently section is mapped to region role in html5
  238. # [18:11] <SteveF> suggesting that mapping it to region only if it has a name
  239. # [18:12] <SteveF> otherwise could be mapped to generic container rather than generic landmark
  240. # [18:12] <@davidb> commented
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  252. # [19:18] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  253. # [19:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ping on bug 748639
  254. # [19:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748639 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, add set of internal accessible relation types
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  265. # [19:42] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-beta for attachment 807875 on bug 881636.
  266. # [19:42] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 807875 on bug 881636.
  267. # [19:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, VERI FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
  268. # [19:44] * Joins: rednaks (rednaks@BFC23663.6CAC82C1.55FFA9B4.IP)
  269. # [19:48] <@surkov> tbsaunde: are you sure that TypedEnum adds a namespace?
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  271. # [19:48] <@surkov> for example http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/events/src/nsEventStateManager.h#384
  272. # [19:48] <@surkov> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/ident?i=ACTION_HISTORY
  273. # [19:48] <@surkov> there's no Action namespace
  274. # [19:49] <@surkov> so it seems all constants goes into its scope
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  278. # [20:01] <tbsaunde> surkov: I think you're looking at the wrong macro
  279. # [20:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, which one?
  280. # [20:01] <@surkov> should I look at
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  282. # [20:02] <tbsaunde> surkov: *ENUM_CLASS_*
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  284. # [20:02] <@surkov> ok ,thanks
  285. # [20:04] <tbsaunde> np
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  312. # [21:51] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  313. # [22:01] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox-esr to affected on bug 881636.
  314. # [22:01] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox24 to wontfix on bug 881636.
  315. # [22:02] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox25 to fixed on bug 881636.
  316. # [22:02] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox26 to fixed on bug 881636.
  317. # [22:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, VERI FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
  318. # [22:04] * Quits: jwatt (roslea@jwatt.irc.users.mozilla.org) (Ping timeout)
  319. # [22:09] <tbsaunde> davidb: around still by any chance?
  320. # [22:09] * Joins: jwatt (roslea@jwatt.irc.users.mozilla.org)
  321. # [22:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: online but from home
  322. # [22:10] <@davidb> will be onsite again tomorrow morning
  323. # [22:10] <tbsaunde> ok
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The end :)