/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-10-17 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu Oct 17 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [07:29] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 818246 on bug 924896.
- # [07:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
- # [07:29] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested review from eitan@monotonous.or g for attachment 818247 on bug 924896.
- # [07:29] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested feedback from marco.zehe@google mail.com for attachment 818247 on bug 924896.
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- # [10:53] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted feedback for attachment 818247 on bug 924896.
- # [10:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
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- # [13:52] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from jamie@nvaccess.or g on bug 924896.
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- # [13:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
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- # [14:02] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 917598 from --- to FIXED.
- # [14:02] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 917598 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [14:02] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 917598 from --- to mozilla27.
- # [14:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=917598 nor, --, mozilla27, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, ISimpleDOMNode::innerHTML does not work on math elements
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- # [15:10] <@davidb> heyo!
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- # [15:50] <@marcoz> Good morning davidb! :)
- # [15:50] <@davidb> hi marcoz :)
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- # [16:02] <@marcoz> yzen: If that one bug isn't enough fun, feel free to also grab bug 923139. I have a feeling our over-all support is still too unstable for me to accurately find the errors and not be fooled by stuff that is "available" when actually off-screen.
- # [16:02] <SteveF> davidb: why u afraid to put camel toe in water on bug 670928 ? ;-)
- # [16:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=923139 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make the phone app accessible
- # [16:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928 enh, --, ---, eitan, REOP, HTML5 element and WAI-ARIA landmark roles easily navigable in Firefox
- # [16:02] <@davidb> are you mixing metaphors? :)
- # [16:02] <SteveF> sure
- # [16:03] <yzen> marcoz: i can try :)
- # [16:03] <SteveF> i just found the juxtaposition of you and camel toe irresistible
- # [16:04] <@davidb> i'll admit i am curious why but will not ask.
- # [16:04] <yzen> marcoz: are you testing on the device ?
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- # [16:05] <@davidb> SteveF: looks like the team suggested an add-on to start with.
- # [16:05] <@davidb> there are lots of comments on this bug
- # [16:05] <@davidb> so i call bankruptcy given my todo list this morning
- # [16:06] <@marcoz> yzen: Yes. There is no way for me within Desktop Firefox to simulate explore by touch with NVDA. You have to use a physical mouse to do that, so the only way I have is to test on a device.
- # [16:06] <SteveF> "looks like the team suggested an add-on to start with." we have that
- # [16:06] <@davidb> SteveF: is it linked in the bug?
- # [16:06] <@davidb> https://github.com/matatk/landmarks/blob/master/README.md
- # [16:06] <@davidb> ah ^
- # [16:07] <@marcoz> yzen: The problem is that the screen reader still often shows me stuff that isn't actually visible, but which *feels* visible. So, I'd constantly need someone sighted to tell me if what I'm feeling is actually accurate or bogus. And I don't have someone available to do that all the time.
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- # [16:07] <@davidb> SteveF: so we need to get that on AMO
- # [16:08] <yzen> marcoz: right, ill try applying your patch and playing around with tit
- # [16:08] <yzen> it
- # [16:08] <SteveF> AMO?
- # [16:09] <@davidb> addons.mozilla.org - i commented in bug
- # [16:09] <yzen> surkov: so should i go ahead with xml-roles then ?
- # [16:10] <yzen> or marcoz do you have a comment re bug 924896
- # [16:10] <SteveF> davidb: am also waiting on response from boriss on why not add
- # [16:10] <@surkov> yzen: if it doesn't burn out then let's wait for jamie feedback
- # [16:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924896 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Expose whether the input is a search, url, tel, etc.
- # [16:10] <@surkov> and marco
- # [16:11] <yzen> surkov: sounds good, i for some reason thought your last comment was from him :S
- # [16:12] <@surkov> ok :)
- # [16:13] <@surkov> also that should mean that my english is getting better :)
- # [16:14] <@davidb> your australian is improving
- # [16:14] <@davidb> mate
- # [16:14] <@davidb> probably hanging out with SteveF too much
- # [16:15] <SteveF> :-)
- # [16:29] <@marcoz> hahah!
- # [16:29] <@marcoz> yzen: surkov: I think xml-roles may not be accurate, since we are not talking about a new *role* here, as with landmarks whose xml-role is deduced by an actual role attribute.
- # [16:30] <@marcoz> yzen: surkov: I actually think "type" is more accurate here since the role is always the same, it's always an input. Only the type determines which kind. Is it a text input for an e-mail address, search term, URL, phone number, etc.? In all cases it is a text input.
- # [16:31] <@surkov> marcoz: role concept can be described input types I think
- # [16:31] <@surkov> marcoz: what about input@type="button"?
- # [16:32] <@marcoz> surkov: input @type="button" is its own widget. It is clearly defined in HTML as a widget that is very different from a text field.
- # [16:32] <@davidb> maybe marcoz would be more comfortable with something like computed-role
- # [16:32] <@surkov> but if would expose type="button" object attribute in current patch
- # [16:33] <@surkov> email, URL, phone are data types, search is rather landmark thing
- # [16:33] <@marcoz> The @type "email" etc. have more evaluation type meanings, the widget type is the same, it's an input. Merely, on soft keyboard devices, the keyboard shown differs, and the HTML 5 form validation rules apply. For example, an e-mail address without an @ sign and proper .tld will cause the input to go into an "invalid" state, whereas an input type "text" or "search" will not. But in all cases, it is a text input field.
- # [16:34] <@surkov> what password field make it special?
- # [16:34] <@surkov> it's also entry but have own role
- # [16:34] <@marcoz> surkov: Password is defined in a11y APIs as a separate widget. :)
- # [16:35] <@surkov> so it can be done the same for other input types
- # [16:35] <@marcoz> surkov: In theory, yes. However, password is distinctly different in that the text you type is not shown.
- # [16:35] <@marcoz> In all other cases, it is.
- # [16:35] <@surkov> davidb: do ARIA plans to have something similar to url, phone or search widgets?
- # [16:35] <@davidb> maybe
- # [16:36] <@surkov> if so then it would be mapped into xml-roles
- # [16:36] <@surkov> automatically if we won't prevent it by special checks
- # [16:36] <@marcoz> surkov: And an input @type="search" also brings up a special keyboard, one that has a "Search" button in the lower right corner rather than a simple "enter". So it is not a landmark like role="search", which would anyway encompass a whole region, not just a single widget.
- # [16:36] <@surkov> davidb: but all it suites the ARIA concept?
- # [16:37] <@surkov> marcoz: would AT need to differentiate input@type="search" from ARIA search landmark?
- # [16:38] <@surkov> or they rather need unique mechanism for this?
- # [16:38] <@davidb> i can only say we should avoid fragility
- # [16:40] <@marcoz> surkov: Like I said, "search" landmark can be on anything, even the input itself, but also on a containing form or div element.
- # [16:41] <@marcoz> surkov: So if there is a label or any other info before that input, which is part of the landmark region, we'd want the screen reader to land on that bit of info, and not make another stop at the input itself when the "go to next landmark" command is used.
- # [16:41] <@marcoz> surkov: So yes, screen readers need to differenciate between a search landmark and an input whose type is search.
- # [16:41] <@surkov> marcoz: does it mean AT would not really need an unique way to access this one?
- # [16:41] <@marcoz> surkov: Right.
- # [16:42] <@surkov> marcoz: so <input role="search" type="search"> is what AT need to differentiate?
- # [16:42] <@marcoz> surkov: In Mac land search is a different sub role to a role of text field.
- # [16:43] <@marcoz> surkov: *if* role="search" is on the input, the landmark navigation should land there. If it is on a form or text *before* the input type="search", AT should land on that other bit, and not again on the search input itself.
- # [16:43] <@surkov> ok, at least search sometimes is mapped to role mechanism, what about url,emails, phones?
- # [16:44] <@surkov> I see, that complicates things
- # [16:44] <@davidb> marcoz: just curious what 'land' means in this context
- # [16:44] <@marcoz> surkov: Mac land does not know about these. Only iOS does, and they have different mechanisms alltogether. They do it by AccessibilityTraits to an input widget.
- # [16:44] <@marcoz> davidb: "land" means "virtual cursor moves to".
- # [16:45] <@davidb> ok
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- # [17:54] <SteveF> so mozillians feedback on this bug would be helpful: section should only map to region if the section has an accessible name https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23545
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- # [17:57] <@davidb> SteveF: are you implying you are not a mozillian?
- # [17:58] <SteveF> davidb: no sorry forgot to say "My fellow..."
- # [17:58] <@davidb> very well.
- # [17:59] <@davidb> marco may have thought about this the most
- # [17:59] <@davidb> it seems reasonable but maybe not obvious… as in it will need to be a learned thing
- # [17:59] <@davidb> for web devs who care
- # [18:00] <@davidb> all 9 of them
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- # [18:03] <SteveF> there is a reason for it, also i would suggest that there needs to be in browser or AT a labeledby relationship with first heading in section
- # [18:04] <SteveF> so not need to be learned, sections have become an annoyance (so users say) due to misuse
- # [18:06] <@davidb> ah ok
- # [18:06] <@davidb> so actively filter out in a sense
- # [18:06] <@davidb> unless has a name
- # [18:06] <@davidb> seems ok
- # [18:07] <@davidb> whether the filtering happens in browser or AT is not described i suppose
- # [18:07] <@davidb> prescribed
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- # [18:10] <SteveF> davidb: well it may be a browser requirement thats why I was asking for feedback
- # [18:10] <SteveF> currently section is mapped to region role in html5
- # [18:11] <SteveF> suggesting that mapping it to region only if it has a name
- # [18:12] <SteveF> otherwise could be mapped to generic container rather than generic landmark
- # [18:12] <@davidb> commented
- # [18:12] * @davidb hunts lunch
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- # [19:18] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
- # [19:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ping on bug 748639
- # [19:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748639 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, add set of internal accessible relation types
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- # [19:42] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-beta for attachment 807875 on bug 881636.
- # [19:42] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 807875 on bug 881636.
- # [19:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, VERI FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
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- # [19:48] <@surkov> tbsaunde: are you sure that TypedEnum adds a namespace?
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- # [19:48] <@surkov> for example http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/events/src/nsEventStateManager.h#384
- # [19:48] <@surkov> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/ident?i=ACTION_HISTORY
- # [19:48] <@surkov> there's no Action namespace
- # [19:49] <@surkov> so it seems all constants goes into its scope
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- # [20:01] <tbsaunde> surkov: I think you're looking at the wrong macro
- # [20:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, which one?
- # [20:01] <@surkov> should I look at
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- # [20:02] <tbsaunde> surkov: *ENUM_CLASS_*
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- # [20:02] <@surkov> ok ,thanks
- # [20:04] <tbsaunde> np
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- # [21:51] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
- # [22:01] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox-esr to affected on bug 881636.
- # [22:01] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox24 to wontfix on bug 881636.
- # [22:02] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox25 to fixed on bug 881636.
- # [22:02] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox26 to fixed on bug 881636.
- # [22:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, VERI FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
- # [22:04] * Quits: jwatt (roslea@jwatt.irc.users.mozilla.org) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:09] <tbsaunde> davidb: around still by any chance?
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- # [22:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: online but from home
- # [22:10] <@davidb> will be onsite again tomorrow morning
- # [22:10] <tbsaunde> ok
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- # Session Close: Fri Oct 18 00:00:00 2013
The end :)