/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-12-05 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu Dec 05 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [00:44] <Hixie> SteveF: hidden="" works even when the browser has no CSS at all, in a compliant HTML UA.
- # [00:44] <Hixie> SteveF: that's basically the sense in which HTML is "semantics" and CSS is "style"
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- # [01:22] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 745601 on bug 868789.
- # [01:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868789 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Name computation for SVG is wrong
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- # [05:41] <Blind_Techie> Good morning/afternoon/evening/night everyone. Is this the proper place to discuss accessibility dev ides?
- # [05:41] <Blind_Techie> Ideas*
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- # [08:12] <SteveF> hixie: "hidden="" works even when the browser has no CSS at all, in a compliant HTML UA" so no compliant UAs = semantic fiction
- # [08:20] <SteveF> hixie: as hidden="" is reliant upon CSS to express its meaning
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- # [08:30] <@firebot> bbajaj@mozilla.com requested needinfo from twalker@mozilla.c om on bug 883059.
- # [08:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883059 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in mozilla::a11y::EventQueue::PushEvent
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- # [09:21] <SteveF> hixie: and on the more general topic of improving work relations on HTML development between W3C and WHATWG feel free to email me offlist or via www-archive
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- # [09:32] <@marcoz> Good morning all!
- # [09:36] <SteveF> marcoz: hi marco!
- # [09:46] <@marcoz> Hi SteveF! :)
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- # [09:55] <icaaq> wow, that Add accessibles bug really exploded yesterday :)
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- # [10:12] <Steves> icaaq: Yeah marcoz lit the fuse and walked away :)
- # [10:14] <Steves> marcoz: Seems like we are making some progress though despite the process arguments
- # [10:14] <icaaq> heh
- # [10:14] <icaaq> Steves === SteveF?
- # [10:16] <Steves> Yeah I am using an irc client from phone gave me new nick
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- # [10:27] <Steves> icaaq: There you go
- # [10:28] <Steves> Actually no thought I had changed nick
- # [10:30] <icaaq> :)
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- # [10:33] <@marcoz> Steves: I'm reading the bug closely. :)
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- # [10:34] <@marcoz> Steves: Yeah, but I'm reading the bug carefully. :)
- # [10:34] <@marcoz> And yeah we're finally getting aural stylesheets! LOL!
- # [10:35] * @marcoz is being cheeky.
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- # [10:37] <Steves> marcoz: Think that is somewhat pie and we are moving from setting an attribute to creating a separate style sheet, sounds like something that won't happen
- # [10:37] <Steves> "Pie in sky"
- # [10:40] <@marcoz> Steves: I also see this not happen. JAWS and others were not interested in aural stylesheets then, why should they suddenly start to care about the new media types?
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- # Session Close: Thu Dec 05 10:43:46 2013
- #
- # Session Start: Thu Dec 05 10:43:46 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [10:46] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://is.gd/DKG0d5'
- # [10:46] * Set by davidb on Wed Oct 02 18:28:53
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- # [11:27] <Steves> Yeah unfortunately we are somewhat constrained, we can get stuff implemented in browsers but... Hence "pie in sky" we must be careful not to run off trying to create the ideal solution that nobody implements/uses
- # [11:33] <@eeejay> Steves, marcoz, this is not aural stylesheets
- # [11:34] <@eeejay> and ATs would not need to implement anything
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- # [11:34] <@eeejay> marcoz, could you give me STR for the the keyboard issue in another app besides marketplace?
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- # [11:42] <@marcoz> eeejay: Sorry, was busy getting an Alcatel One Touch Fire flashed to yesterday's nightly build. :)
- # [11:42] <SteveF> eejay: how would the different styles be picked up by SR's?
- # [11:42] <@eeejay> marcoz, :)
- # [11:43] <@eeejay> SteveF, my nick has 3 e's in it :)
- # [11:43] <@marcoz> eeejay: I saw this in Market Place, and yesterday, with youra's Gaia branch for bug 923139, also when adding a contact: 1: Open Dialer. 2. Enter a phone number. 3. At the bottom left, hit Add To Contact. 4. Choose Create Contact. 5. Try to activate any of the text fields in that new panel.
- # [11:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=923139 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, Make the phone app accessible
- # [11:43] <@eeejay> SteveF, the UA would do its media query magic, and apply the screen reader friendly style to the page
- # [11:43] <SteveF> eeejay:oh right yeah, trying to type with JAWS running...
- # [11:44] <@eeejay> SteveF, then when an AT interrogates the state of accessibles, it would see things like INVISIBLE. or it would be pruned from the a11y tree
- # [11:44] <SteveF> eeejay: but how would UA know?
- # [11:44] <@eeejay> SteveF, the browser's a11y API would show/hide the correct nodes
- # [11:45] <SteveF> eejay:ah right sounds good
- # [11:45] <SteveF> eeejay: that is
- # [11:46] <@eeejay> i wish aria could be done from css sometimes
- # [11:46] <SteveF> eeejay: others have wished the same
- # [11:46] <@eeejay> it would eliminate the need for js in many cases
- # [11:50] <@eeejay> marcoz, cool, thanks for the STR. will look at it now
- # [11:59] <@marcoz> eeejay: Cool! :)
- # [11:59] <@marcoz> eeejay: Any idea when you're going to land bug 920946?
- # [11:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920946 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Touch typing does not work when initially placing finger on a key
- # [11:59] <@eeejay> marcoz, oops!
- # [11:59] <@eeejay> marcoz, i'll get on that now-ish
- # [11:59] <@marcoz> eeejay: I didn't reproduce the problems I was seeing initially, so I believe it is safe to land, but we can then look at possible problems later.
- # [12:00] <SteveF> eeejay: i was somehwat confused bu surkov's comment about nahing to ask users if they want to use SR stylesheet when present
- # [12:01] <SteveF> nahing= having ;-0
- # [12:01] <@eeejay> SteveF, yeah. the browser would need to ask permission from the user whether they want to disclose to an untrusted site the fact that they are using a SR
- # [12:02] <@eeejay> SteveF, it is like the geolocation API, you can't just let any website know the exact coordinates of their visitors..
- # [12:02] <SteveF> eeejay: thats a sticking point
- # [12:02] <SteveF> eeejay: need to ask some users
- # [12:03] <@eeejay> SteveF, why?
- # [12:03] <SteveF> eeejay: i believe in general users don't want to provide such info
- # [12:04] <@eeejay> SteveF, right, that is why you need to prompt them
- # [12:04] <SteveF> eeejay: is that on a site by site basis?
- # [12:04] <@eeejay> SteveF, but lets say it is their web mail, that they use all day, every day. it would ask you once, you would ay yes, and it would save your preference
- # [12:04] <SteveF> eeejay: right and if they say no they won't get access to the content
- # [12:05] <@eeejay> SteveF, generally. but i also see a preference in a browser settings dialog like "disclose my use of an assistive technology: always/never/ask"
- # [12:05] <SteveF> eeejay: right
- # [12:07] <SteveF> eeejay: https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/408552226412445697
- # [12:08] <@eeejay> SteveF, wrong question. the right question is, would you allow your browser to tell websites you use a screen reader?"
- # [12:08] <SteveF> ok will modify
- # [12:09] <SteveF> https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/408552786331058176
- # [12:09] <@eeejay> SteveF, thanks :)
- # [12:23] <@marcoz> eeejay: Has bug 920946 potential to tell some other part a wrong screen coordinate? I am just wondering whether what I was seeing were really ghost glitches or real problems.
- # [12:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920946 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Touch typing does not work when initially placing finger on a key
- # [12:23] <@marcoz> s/has/does …. have/
- # [12:24] <@eeejay> marcoz, i don't think so
- # [12:24] <@marcoz> OK! I'll bang on it some more once it lands on Central and I can get it through the Nightly update channel.
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- # [13:34] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 945308 from --- to FIXED.
- # [13:35] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 945308 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [13:35] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 945308 from --- to mozilla28.
- # [13:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945308 cri, --, mozilla28, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::HyperTextAccessible::GetBoundsInFrame(nsIFrame*, unsigned int, unsigned int)
- # [13:37] <@marcoz> eeejay: So, anything conclusive about those text fields?
- # [13:38] * Joins: stommepoes (stommepoes@1013F712.60B298BE.5B427D60.IP)
- # [13:40] <@marcoz> stommepoes: Welcome to #accessibility ! :)
- # [13:43] <stommepoes> hey, I was once on the irc.mozilla.org and never found this room, now clicked on it accidentally from Krijn's logs, and boom! it exists. Thought it was thuper thecret or something, marcoz
- # [13:43] <@marcoz> stommepoes: Not at all! We're just as open as the rest of Mozilla. :)
- # [13:43] <stommepoes> For some reason Opera only remember, on new start up, the html-wg room/server though.
- # [13:44] <stommepoes> There were indeed a bazillion mozilla rooms marcoz, but I used search I swear! :)
- # [13:45] * Joins: surkov (surkov@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
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- # [13:52] <SteveF> eeejay: early feedback suggests self identifying as an SR user is a non starter https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/408552786331058176
- # [13:53] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-4D28BA20.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
- # [13:54] <@eeejay> marcoz, not yet
- # [13:54] <@eeejay> SteveF, kind of a biased user research
- # [14:04] <@firebot> twalker@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(twalker@mozilla.c om) on bug 883059.
- # [14:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883059 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in mozilla::a11y::EventQueue::PushEvent
- # [14:04] <stommepoes> My comment mentioning cookie law was more from the suggestion I saw in the logs about the always/never/whatever asking of the user. I'm sure geoloc question is better implemented, but the cookie popup thing (implemented by authors under duress) is a disaster.
- # [14:05] <SteveF> eeejay: sure but what is needed from users is buy in otherwise the concept is not useful
- # [14:06] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr changed the Component on bug 946626 from Untriaged to Keyboard: Navigation.
- # [14:06] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr changed the Product on bug 946626 from Firefox to Core.
- # [14:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=946626 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Control + arrow keys shortcut not functioning
- # [14:08] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr requested needinfo from paul374@live.jp on bug 946626.
- # [14:14] * Quits: arky (arky@B9988FC3.C6021428.FA662B63.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [14:17] <@eeejay> SteveF, I'm also thinking about this from a perspective of firefox os certified apps that would have implicit permissions
- # [14:20] <@marcoz> eeejay: SteveF: I know this is only difficult to compare, but both iOS and Android have ways to detect whether VoiceOver/Talkback or other assistive technologies are being used. Apps can easily ask for this info on iOS. Android, I assume, is similarly easy. I know we detect different ATs in Firefox for Android.
- # [14:21] <@marcoz> Those would be comparable to Firefox OS privileged or system apps.
- # [14:21] <@eeejay> ah, i forgot about android :)
- # [14:22] <@marcoz> eeejay: I know the feeling, happens to me, too. :)
- # [14:22] <@eeejay> hehe
- # [14:22] <SteveF> marcoz: on the OS/browser level i think its acceptable, its informing sites that is a problem
- # [14:23] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
- # [14:23] <@marcoz> eeejay: Different topic: Does git pull without any arguments always pull in from the remote of the current branch, or from the remote named origin? So if I wanted to update whatever yzen has in his repos and then work with that, would I do git pull from one of his branches, or would I do git pull yzen while in one of his branches? (I mean one of his branches is checked out)
- # [14:24] <@marcoz> SteveF: I realize that, and I also agree with Jennifer and others that this is problematic info to share. In an ideal world, sites should not have to know a damn about what assistive technology is being used on the other side of the browser.
- # [14:25] <@eeejay> marcoz, finally reproduced something.. in the new contacts window, you could bring up the keyboard for one field, but the not the other?
- # [14:25] <@marcoz> SteveF: I think we should find a solution here that web developers can work with and browser vendors can implement, possibly also involving ATs, but without infringing on the privacy of our mutual users.
- # [14:26] <SteveF> marcoz: I am unclear why sites need to know
- # [14:26] <@eeejay> i think the line between an app and a website is very blurry here. it is legit for an app to know about an AT, but not a website
- # [14:26] <@marcoz> eeejay: Then you got further than I, I could not bring up the keyboard for any of them. :)
- # [14:26] <@eeejay> on the other hand, a native app is sometimes a glorified website that you would not want to share that info with either.
- # [14:27] <@marcoz> eeejay: :) Well, in any case, the web content has no access to that info on either Android or iOS. Only real native apps do.
- # [14:27] <SteveF> eeejay: right but its about perception and there are/will be a significant group of users that won't allow it
- # [14:28] <@marcoz> SteveF: Exactly. And we should not implement something that has the potential to render two totally different things for two persons using the same version of a browser and an assistive technology, only the one has said yes to sharing AT info, the other has said no.
- # [14:28] <@marcoz> That would make web developers' lives even harder than it already is. And yes, I believe web accessibility, esp some advanced stuff, is really a difficult field to master.
- # [14:30] <SteveF> marcoz: thats why the imperfect but conceptually simple aria-hidden=false override of hidden is alluring (to me at least) :-)
- # [14:30] * Joins: arky (arky@E1EC2BCC.A02F62B6.FA662B63.IP)
- # [14:33] <SteveF> i also think if sites were able to gather SR usage data it would not be used for the benefit if the users
- # [14:38] <stommepoes> Regarding aria-hidden... I must implement icky popup modal thingie, a lightbox. I'm trying out aria-hidden on the page container (almost everything in the body except some jQ UI junk already display:none and the lightbox itself)...
- # [14:39] <stommepoes> One possible positive thing if sites could measure sr users, if every user agreed *and* was honest (lawlz) was we'd maybe finally have some numbers to give teh CEOs showing any increase/decrease ROI between accessible and inaccessible site ("accessible" meaning all the perfect stuff that doesn't exist, for sake of idea)
- # [14:41] <SteveF> what we need to do is force users to expose personal information to every site...
- # [14:42] <stommepoes> Merka's already been workin on that Steve-O
- # [14:42] <stommepoes> Let's get some Facebook guys in here...
- # [14:43] <@marcoz> LOL
- # [14:44] <stommepoes> meh, aria-hidden's a bit useless without hidden when it comes to keyboard... do I really need to manually check all focusables in a dialog and force each tab to loop back to the top of the dialog? There should be a one-command thing to do this.
- # [14:45] <stommepoes> better yet, it should be pre-built into all the jquery-whatever lightboxy/dialog plugins.
- # [14:47] <@eeejay> marcoz, could i mail you patch to test?
- # [14:49] <@marcoz> eeejay: Sure!
- # [14:50] <@eeejay> bah, the lockscreen is broken again??
- # [14:50] <@marcoz> eeejay: Oh no, why's that? I am using yesterday's build and it works fine there. At least I can unlock the phone.
- # [14:57] <@marcoz> eeejay: Building with your patch now. Haven't built in a few days, so will take a moment before I have results.
- # [15:03] <@marcoz> eeejay: Can we have tests for this lock screen thing somehow so it doesn't get re-broken every other day?
- # [15:04] <@eeejay> marcoz, yeah, fixed it, and now adding a test
- # [15:04] <@eeejay> marcoz, we had tests up for review a long time ago that bit rotted
- # [15:04] <@eeejay> before they merged repos
- # [15:06] <@marcoz> eeejay: Great that you could fix it so easily!
- # [15:06] <@eeejay> marcoz, i just re-added those 3 lines :P
- # [15:08] * Quits: arky (arky@E1EC2BCC.A02F62B6.FA662B63.IP) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [15:08] <@marcoz> eeejay: So hopefully the test will make sure they don't waltz over us again!
- # [15:17] <@marcoz> eeejay: Progress on that Add Contact panel: Focus goes to each of those entry fields now, but the keyboard does not come up at alll.
- # [15:18] <@eeejay> weird! i am sure i saw it here
- # [15:21] <@marcoz> eeejay: I hear the activation earcon on every field now, and I can activate items such as changing the e-mail type from "Personal" to "Home" or so, but none of the fields get a cursor and I don't get a keyboard.
- # [15:21] <@marcoz> eeejay: I also now can activate the Exit button at the top left, couldn't do that yesterday.
- # [15:22] <@eeejay> marcoz, the vc was being held hostage by the focused entry before this patch
- # [15:23] <@marcoz> eeejay: Interesting!
- # [15:23] <@marcoz> Well at least that is fixed now! :-)
- # [15:25] * Joins: yzen (yzen@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
- # [15:25] <yzen> eeejay: hi
- # [15:25] <@eeejay> yzen, yo!
- # [15:27] * Joins: davidb|afk (uid12418@moz-31ABA2C0.irccloud.com)
- # [15:28] <yzen> eeejay: i had a question about the screen reader generated event. i found some issues in the diaper app where click event listeners use evt.target.dataset and then act on that
- # [15:29] <@eeejay> ok
- # [15:29] <yzen> eeejay: does it mean i need to add a touch related event listener?
- # [15:29] <@eeejay> yzen, in addition to the click listener?
- # [15:29] <yzen> ya
- # [15:29] <@eeejay> yzen, have lines of code?
- # [15:29] <yzen> ya one sec
- # [15:30] <yzen> eeejay: https://github.com/mozilla-b2g/gaia/blob/master/apps/communications/dialer/js/call_log.js#L591-L606
- # [15:30] <@marcoz> "diaper" is a nice auto-correct for dialer. :)
- # [15:30] <@marcoz> Hi yzen! :)
- # [15:30] <yzen> marcoz: hi :)
- # [15:30] <yzen> haha
- # [15:30] * @eeejay is sitting in a cafe listening to someone doing jazz covers of cyndi lauper songs
- # [15:31] <yzen> sweet )
- # [15:31] <@marcoz> eeejay: Sounds nice! And weird! And interesting! :)
- # [15:31] <@eeejay> yah :)
- # [15:31] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr changed the Component on bug 946258 from Untriaged to Keyboard Navigation.
- # [15:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=946258 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, From the add-on bar, an add-on's user interface cannot be opened using the keyboard
- # [15:32] <@eeejay> yzen, i don't see an issue here, the dataset is the data associated with that element
- # [15:32] <yzen> eeejay: yes
- # [15:32] <@eeejay> yzen, and for the record, we prefer click events, but we handle both fine
- # [15:32] <yzen> however i found that it is simply not doing anything
- # [15:32] <yzen> i would assume that the click bubbles
- # [15:32] <@eeejay> yzen, if the browser has touch events enabled we bookend mousedown/mouseup with toushstart/touchend
- # [15:33] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [15:33] <@eeejay> yzen, are you sure that accessfu is activating the right element, not a child or parent?
- # [15:33] <yzen> eeejay: so what's going on here is that the listener is on the container for the list of previous calls, so when you click on the list item the handler for the container deals with it, not the list item
- # [15:34] <yzen> that's the thing
- # [15:34] <@eeejay> yzen, in this case a bubbling event is not good enough, since it checks the target
- # [15:34] <@eeejay> the target will not be the container, but the deepest child in propogation, afaik
- # [15:35] <@eeejay> yzen, the homescreen icon grid is very similar
- # [15:36] <yzen> eeejay: alright ill take a look, other than that i updated the pull with yours and marcoz's comments, tested on call finally too :) it works pretty well
- # [15:38] <@eeejay> yzen, awesome!
- # [15:38] <@eeejay> yzen, with what device?
- # [15:42] <yzen> inari
- # [15:43] <@eeejay> cool
- # [15:43] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
- # [15:43] <@eeejay> okay, i'm outta here. i'll check in with y'all later
- # [15:43] <@eeejay> marcoz, waiting for travis success with my new lockscreen test:
- # [15:43] <@eeejay> https://travis-ci.org/mozilla-b2g/gaia/builds/14984863
- # [15:43] <@marcoz> yzen: eeejay: So what's the correct command to pull in the updated stuff? git pull yzen so it pulls the stuff directly into the local files while I have yzen's branch checked out?
- # [15:43] * Quits: davidb|afk (uid12418@moz-31ABA2C0.irccloud.com) (Quit: )
- # [15:44] <@eeejay> marcoz, i'm assuming yzen squashed/rebased stuff, so maybe pull -f
- # [15:44] <@eeejay> but ask him, adios!
- # [15:44] <yzen> marcoz: you can also try git fetch yzen first
- # [15:44] <yzen> it will get the latest source
- # [15:45] <yzen> and then you should be able to merge with the latest version of my branch
- # [15:45] <@marcoz> yzen: OK, but not have your branch checked out at that time, right?
- # [15:45] <@marcoz> eeejay: Thanks for everything! Will see how the build goes!
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- # [15:46] <@marcoz> yzen: I added your gaia fork as a remote on my end.
- # [15:46] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [15:47] <@davidb> http://billmccloskey.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/multiprocess-firefox/
- # [15:49] <@marcoz> Hi davidb! :)
- # [15:49] <@marcoz> yzen: So git fetch yzen gave me: + 79ed346...ff5f6ec 923139 -> yzen/923139 (forced update)
- # [15:49] <@marcoz> yzen: Among others. So I suppose it did give me the latest source. I was having my master, matched to origin/master, checked out at the time.
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- # [16:02] <@davidb> hi hi
- # [16:02] <yzen> marcoz: so until you pull or merge it will not get into your current brach
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- # [16:19] <yzen> hey marcoz , so you think dialer will not get in in time for dec 9 ?
- # [16:23] * Parts: stommepoes (stommepoes@1013F712.60B298BE.5B427D60.IP)
- # [16:28] <@marcoz> yzen: I don't know! Ask for review and we'll see!
- # [16:28] <yzen> :) ok
- # [16:28] <@marcoz> yzen: I would love for it to get in! I just don't know if they'll let us! :)
- # [16:36] <@marcoz> OK, https://travis-ci.org/mozilla-b2g/gaia/builds/14984863 said the build failed, but at least I cannot identify which job failed.
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- # [16:54] <@marcoz> Gijs: Hi! Could you take a quick look at bug 942650's dependency and possible tagging? This is an Australlis specific fix, so should probably be marked as such somehow.
- # [16:56] <Gijs> ugh
- # [16:57] <Gijs> that fix will break stuff
- # [16:57] <Gijs> and isn't marked as Australis-specific
- # [16:57] <Gijs> which will break more stuff when moving to holly
- # [16:57] <Gijs> marcoz: thanks for bringing it to my attention
- # [16:57] <@firebot> ioana.budnar@softvision.ro changed the Component on bug 639824 from General to Keyboard Navigation.
- # [16:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=639824 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, I dont like using mouse/trackpad while browsing web. So there should be a key on pressing which i sh
- # [17:01] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com on bug 942650.
- # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942650 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Some toolbars have unknown accessible role or worse
- # [17:05] <tbsaunde> Gijs: how? the old code is a nop
- # [17:06] <Gijs> tbsaunde: because the patch didn't make it clear the old nsIAccessibleProvider stuff has already been removed, just without removing the other stuff this code touched (why?)
- # [17:06] <Gijs> tbsaunde: I guess it won't break stuff right now, but the landing not having 'Australis' will break the merge
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- # [17:06] <Gijs> tbsaunde: anyway, which was the bug that caused this?
- # [17:06] <Gijs> where did nsIAccessibleProvider get removed?
- # [17:07] <tbsaunde> Gijs: it got removed a couple months ago iirc bug 846185
- # [17:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=846185 nor, --, mozilla26, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, don't call into nsIAccessibleProviders during a11y tree update
- # [17:08] <tbsaunde> Gijs: why does the commit message matter to merging?
- # [17:08] <tbsaunde> I don't get why anything else should have been removed the rest of the patch is unrelated comment fix up
- # [17:09] <Gijs> tbsaunde: because merging that patch to holly (m-c-without-australis) will not work, because the touched file doesn't exist there
- # [17:09] <Gijs> tbsaunde: so it'll need to be backed out
- # [17:09] <Gijs> before merging
- # [17:09] <Gijs> and so we ask everyone to mark their patches so that we know what to back out when merging
- # [17:09] <tbsaunde> yeah, but that should be trivial to resolve or do you try and automate the merge somehow
- # [17:09] <Gijs> Kind of says so on the TBPL page
- # [17:09] <@firebot> ioana.budnar@softvision.ro changed the Component on bug 672987 from General to Keyboard Navigation.
- # [17:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672987 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Apple Left (Command Left) fails to go back.
- # [17:10] <Gijs> It wouldn't be trivial if nobody marked their patches, and so we ask everyone to do it.
- # [17:10] <Gijs> irrespective of how trivial or otherwise the patch is
- # [17:10] <Gijs> doesn't seem that unreasonable to me
- # [17:10] <Gijs> there'll be a push hook soon
- # [17:10] <tbsaunde> who looks at tbpl anymore? ;)
- # [17:10] <Gijs> ...
- # [17:11] <tbsaunde> seriously I basically never look at anything but try
- # [17:11] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) on bug 942650.
- # [17:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942650 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Some toolbars have unknown accessible role or worse
- # [17:11] <tbsaunde> its pretty unclear to me that read commit log back stuff out merge is easier than merge and resolve conflicts but *shrug* I guess
- # [17:12] <SteveF> surkov: thanks, thats the right place to get changes made to the html spec :-)
- # [17:12] <Gijs> tbsaunde: hg log -k can automate the commit log stuff :)
- # [17:12] <Gijs> (ie figuring out what needs to be backed out)
- # [17:12] <@surkov> SteveF: agree
- # [17:12] <Gijs> resolving the conflicts in messed up browser.css files is very much not trivial
- # [17:12] <SteveF> surkov: it will also be less volatile for discussion
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- # [17:49] <SteveF> surkov: its the HTML WG members such as yourself who are the final arbiters of what goes into the HTML spec, not the editors :-)
- # [17:49] <SteveF> surkov: we just use a commit then review model
- # [17:50] <@davidb> so we need to be watchful i guess
- # [17:50] <SteveF> davidb: exactly, and I usally try to pull you guys into any bugs that are relevant
- # [17:51] <SteveF> usually
- # [17:51] <@davidb> good
- # [17:51] <@davidb> that didn't happen with aria so much - when i stopped attending the main calls
- # [17:52] <@davidb> i can only stab myself in the face so much
- # [17:52] <@surkov> thank you, SteveF :)
- # [17:52] <@davidb> yes, thanks SteveF :)
- # [17:55] <@surkov> davidb: btw, why did you stopped?
- # [17:55] <SteveF> davidb: well hopefully going forward aria 1.1 will have an open bug tracker and bugzilla component please add your voices to this bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23803 and see related thread on wai-xtech http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Nov/0013.html
- # [17:55] <SteveF> what seems like a simple request....
- # [17:55] <@davidb> surkov: the 2 hour monday call became very very very slow
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- # [17:56] <@surkov> davidb: don't we lose some control in this field by means of that?
- # [17:56] <@davidb> surkov: yes.
- # [17:57] <@davidb> control/voice
- # [17:57] <@surkov> it's sad
- # [17:57] <SteveF> davidb: you can always fund me to sit on the calls on your behalf :-)
- # [17:57] <@davidb> can discuss at lunch :)
- # [17:57] <@surkov> right
- # [17:57] <@davidb> SteveF: interesting
- # [17:58] <@davidb> clown became an excellent proxy of sorts... since he and I almost always agree
- # [17:58] <SteveF> davidb: thanks for responding on bug!
- # [17:58] <@davidb> i'm not good with things that drag on for years being 'almost done'
- # [17:58] <@davidb> SteveF: my pleasure
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- # [17:59] <clown> davidb, no we don't. ;-)
- # [17:59] <@davidb> clown: you're right.
- # [17:59] <@davidb> ;)
- # [18:00] <clown> davidb: no I'm not.
- # [18:00] * tbsaunde gets his dead fish out
- # [18:01] * clown sounds like a monty python routine
- # [18:01] <SteveF> davidb: but i think if you keep an eye on bugs and tracker and attend selectively when issues of importance arise you should be OK with aria 1.1
- # [18:02] <@davidb> SteveF: yes. although that was roughly my plan with the latter years of aria 1.0
- # [18:02] <@davidb> i failed
- # [18:02] <SteveF> davidb: only yourself to blame then... ;-)
- # [18:02] <@davidb> +1
- # [18:03] <SteveF> davidb: i plan to be more active in 1.1 which may help
- # [18:03] <@davidb> yes and surkov is more directly involved now
- # [18:03] <SteveF> davidb: ahh surkov the trouble maker
- # [18:04] <@davidb> surkov has a keen eye for details and complex considerations
- # [18:04] <SteveF> problem with surkov is he has views, need to beat that out of him
- # [18:04] <@surkov> :)
- # [18:04] <@davidb> yes very frustrating, he has strong positions on things that are usually correct
- # [18:04] <@davidb> :)
- # [18:05] <@davidb> man i'm hungry
- # [18:06] <@davidb> clown: what do you think about https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23803
- # [18:06] <@davidb> i know you are used to the IRC bot things now...
- # [18:06] * clown looks, but is very busy with last minute UAIG edits...
- # [18:06] <@davidb> as you will.
- # [18:06] <@davidb> of course.
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- # [18:08] * clown and is actually thinking seriously about lunch.
- # [18:08] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you following the problems with FF 25 + orca?
- # [18:08] <@davidb> (I think Alex is assigned the main bug)
- # [18:09] <@davidb> but folks I know have had to revert to FF 24
- # [18:09] <@davidb> and to get a fix in... and ride the trains... is worrisome
- # [18:09] <@davidb> in terms of length of time they must use 24
- # [18:10] <@marcoz> SteveF: Added my +1 as well.
- # [18:10] <@marcoz> And am now going offline for the evening. :) See you all tomorrow!
- # [18:10] <@davidb> ciao!
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- # [18:12] <@surkov> I need to check whether there's a quick fix for that orca thing
- # [18:13] <@davidb> would be great
- # [18:13] <@davidb> joanie probably has insight
- # [18:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde, surkov roll in about 5-10?
- # [18:17] <@surkov> good
- # [18:18] <@davidb> surkov, tbsaunde roll!
- # [18:18] <@surkov> ok
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- # [20:18] <tbsaunde> davidb|afk: not really, haven't had time to read orca email list much recently :(
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- # [21:31] <erkan^> is orca a accessibilty software, tbsaunde ?
- # [21:31] <tbsaunde> why don't you ask google that?
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- # [22:02] <tbsaunde> hey, centos6 has new enough atk we can remove the dlsym stuff for atk socket as well as the hyperlink stuff \O/
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- # [22:52] <@davidb> tbsaunde: sounds good
- # [22:53] <tbsaunde> davidb: I guess you mena the dlsym thing not ignoring the orca list?
- # [22:54] <@davidb> i was thinking more it sounded like we can remove kruft
- # [22:54] <@davidb> but i'm not really sure i have full context
- # [22:55] <tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, just wasn't sure which comment you were refering too
- # [22:55] <@davidb> ah
- # [22:55] <@davidb> yes i don't like the sound of ignoring the orca list :)
- # [22:56] <tbsaunde> I don't either, but so much noise so little time
- # [22:56] <tbsaunde> :(
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- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 868789 from nobody@mozilla.org to taken.spc@gmail.com.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 868789.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 868789 from --- to FIXED.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 868789 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 868789 from --- to mozilla28.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868789 nor, --, mozilla28, taken.spc, RESO FIXED, Name computation for SVG is wrong
- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 942650 from --- to FIXED.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 942650 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 942650 from --- to mozilla28.
- # [23:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942650 nor, --, mozilla28, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Some toolbars have unknown accessible role or worse
- # [23:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 920946 from --- to FIXED.
- # [23:41] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 920946 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [23:41] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 920946 from --- to mozilla28.
- # [23:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920946 nor, --, mozilla28, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Touch typing does not work when initially placing finger on a key
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- # Session Close: Fri Dec 06 00:00:00 2013
The end :)