/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-12-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 05 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  8. # [00:44] <Hixie> SteveF: hidden="" works even when the browser has no CSS at all, in a compliant HTML UA.
  9. # [00:44] <Hixie> SteveF: that's basically the sense in which HTML is "semantics" and CSS is "style"
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  17. # [01:22] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 745601 on bug 868789.
  18. # [01:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868789 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Name computation for SVG is wrong
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  70. # [05:41] <Blind_Techie> Good morning/afternoon/evening/night everyone. Is this the proper place to discuss accessibility dev ides?
  71. # [05:41] <Blind_Techie> Ideas*
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  99. # [08:12] <SteveF> hixie: "hidden="" works even when the browser has no CSS at all, in a compliant HTML UA" so no compliant UAs = semantic fiction
  100. # [08:20] <SteveF> hixie: as hidden="" is reliant upon CSS to express its meaning
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  102. # [08:30] <@firebot> bbajaj@mozilla.com requested needinfo from twalker@mozilla.c om on bug 883059.
  103. # [08:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883059 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in mozilla::a11y::EventQueue::PushEvent
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  106. # [09:21] <SteveF> hixie: and on the more general topic of improving work relations on HTML development between W3C and WHATWG feel free to email me offlist or via www-archive
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  109. # [09:32] <@marcoz> Good morning all!
  110. # [09:36] <SteveF> marcoz: hi marco!
  111. # [09:46] <@marcoz> Hi SteveF! :)
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  113. # [09:55] <icaaq> wow, that Add accessibles bug really exploded yesterday :)
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  117. # [10:12] <Steves> icaaq: Yeah marcoz lit the fuse and walked away :)
  118. # [10:14] <Steves> marcoz: Seems like we are making some progress though despite the process arguments
  119. # [10:14] <icaaq> heh
  120. # [10:14] <icaaq> Steves === SteveF?
  121. # [10:16] <Steves> Yeah I am using an irc client from phone gave me new nick
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  125. # [10:27] <Steves> icaaq: There you go
  126. # [10:28] <Steves> Actually no thought I had changed nick
  127. # [10:30] <icaaq> :)
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  131. # [10:33] <@marcoz> Steves: I'm reading the bug closely. :)
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  133. # [10:34] <@marcoz> Steves: Yeah, but I'm reading the bug carefully. :)
  134. # [10:34] <@marcoz> And yeah we're finally getting aural stylesheets! LOL!
  135. # [10:35] * @marcoz is being cheeky.
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  137. # [10:37] <Steves> marcoz: Think that is somewhat pie and we are moving from setting an attribute to creating a separate style sheet, sounds like something that won't happen
  138. # [10:37] <Steves> "Pie in sky"
  139. # [10:40] <@marcoz> Steves: I also see this not happen. JAWS and others were not interested in aural stylesheets then, why should they suddenly start to care about the new media types?
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  146. # Session Close: Thu Dec 05 10:43:46 2013
  147. #
  148. # Session Start: Thu Dec 05 10:43:46 2013
  149. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  153. # [10:46] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://is.gd/DKG0d5'
  154. # [10:46] * Set by davidb on Wed Oct 02 18:28:53
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  168. # [11:27] <Steves> Yeah unfortunately we are somewhat constrained, we can get stuff implemented in browsers but... Hence "pie in sky" we must be careful not to run off trying to create the ideal solution that nobody implements/uses
  169. # [11:33] <@eeejay> Steves, marcoz, this is not aural stylesheets
  170. # [11:34] <@eeejay> and ATs would not need to implement anything
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  172. # [11:34] <@eeejay> marcoz, could you give me STR for the the keyboard issue in another app besides marketplace?
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  174. # [11:42] <@marcoz> eeejay: Sorry, was busy getting an Alcatel One Touch Fire flashed to yesterday's nightly build. :)
  175. # [11:42] <SteveF> eejay: how would the different styles be picked up by SR's?
  176. # [11:42] <@eeejay> marcoz, :)
  177. # [11:43] <@eeejay> SteveF, my nick has 3 e's in it :)
  178. # [11:43] <@marcoz> eeejay: I saw this in Market Place, and yesterday, with youra's Gaia branch for bug 923139, also when adding a contact: 1: Open Dialer. 2. Enter a phone number. 3. At the bottom left, hit Add To Contact. 4. Choose Create Contact. 5. Try to activate any of the text fields in that new panel.
  179. # [11:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=923139 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, Make the phone app accessible
  180. # [11:43] <@eeejay> SteveF, the UA would do its media query magic, and apply the screen reader friendly style to the page
  181. # [11:43] <SteveF> eeejay:oh right yeah, trying to type with JAWS running...
  182. # [11:44] <@eeejay> SteveF, then when an AT interrogates the state of accessibles, it would see things like INVISIBLE. or it would be pruned from the a11y tree
  183. # [11:44] <SteveF> eeejay: but how would UA know?
  184. # [11:44] <@eeejay> SteveF, the browser's a11y API would show/hide the correct nodes
  185. # [11:45] <SteveF> eejay:ah right sounds good
  186. # [11:45] <SteveF> eeejay: that is
  187. # [11:46] <@eeejay> i wish aria could be done from css sometimes
  188. # [11:46] <SteveF> eeejay: others have wished the same
  189. # [11:46] <@eeejay> it would eliminate the need for js in many cases
  190. # [11:50] <@eeejay> marcoz, cool, thanks for the STR. will look at it now
  191. # [11:59] <@marcoz> eeejay: Cool! :)
  192. # [11:59] <@marcoz> eeejay: Any idea when you're going to land bug 920946?
  193. # [11:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920946 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Touch typing does not work when initially placing finger on a key
  194. # [11:59] <@eeejay> marcoz, oops!
  195. # [11:59] <@eeejay> marcoz, i'll get on that now-ish
  196. # [11:59] <@marcoz> eeejay: I didn't reproduce the problems I was seeing initially, so I believe it is safe to land, but we can then look at possible problems later.
  197. # [12:00] <SteveF> eeejay: i was somehwat confused bu surkov's comment about nahing to ask users if they want to use SR stylesheet when present
  198. # [12:01] <SteveF> nahing= having ;-0
  199. # [12:01] <@eeejay> SteveF, yeah. the browser would need to ask permission from the user whether they want to disclose to an untrusted site the fact that they are using a SR
  200. # [12:02] <@eeejay> SteveF, it is like the geolocation API, you can't just let any website know the exact coordinates of their visitors..
  201. # [12:02] <SteveF> eeejay: thats a sticking point
  202. # [12:02] <SteveF> eeejay: need to ask some users
  203. # [12:03] <@eeejay> SteveF, why?
  204. # [12:03] <SteveF> eeejay: i believe in general users don't want to provide such info
  205. # [12:04] <@eeejay> SteveF, right, that is why you need to prompt them
  206. # [12:04] <SteveF> eeejay: is that on a site by site basis?
  207. # [12:04] <@eeejay> SteveF, but lets say it is their web mail, that they use all day, every day. it would ask you once, you would ay yes, and it would save your preference
  208. # [12:04] <SteveF> eeejay: right and if they say no they won't get access to the content
  209. # [12:05] <@eeejay> SteveF, generally. but i also see a preference in a browser settings dialog like "disclose my use of an assistive technology: always/never/ask"
  210. # [12:05] <SteveF> eeejay: right
  211. # [12:07] <SteveF> eeejay: https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/408552226412445697
  212. # [12:08] <@eeejay> SteveF, wrong question. the right question is, would you allow your browser to tell websites you use a screen reader?"
  213. # [12:08] <SteveF> ok will modify
  214. # [12:09] <SteveF> https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/408552786331058176
  215. # [12:09] <@eeejay> SteveF, thanks :)
  216. # [12:23] <@marcoz> eeejay: Has bug 920946 potential to tell some other part a wrong screen coordinate? I am just wondering whether what I was seeing were really ghost glitches or real problems.
  217. # [12:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920946 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Touch typing does not work when initially placing finger on a key
  218. # [12:23] <@marcoz> s/has/does …. have/
  219. # [12:24] <@eeejay> marcoz, i don't think so
  220. # [12:24] <@marcoz> OK! I'll bang on it some more once it lands on Central and I can get it through the Nightly update channel.
  221. # [12:30] * Gijs is now known as Gijs_away
  222. # [12:34] * Joins: erkan^ (Erkan@F6ECD9D5.12B21C4E.6BF415CA.IP)
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  226. # [13:34] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 945308 from --- to FIXED.
  227. # [13:35] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 945308 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  228. # [13:35] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 945308 from --- to mozilla28.
  229. # [13:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945308 cri, --, mozilla28, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::HyperTextAccessible::GetBoundsInFrame(nsIFrame*, unsigned int, unsigned int)
  230. # [13:37] <@marcoz> eeejay: So, anything conclusive about those text fields?
  231. # [13:38] * Joins: stommepoes (stommepoes@1013F712.60B298BE.5B427D60.IP)
  232. # [13:40] <@marcoz> stommepoes: Welcome to #accessibility ! :)
  233. # [13:43] <stommepoes> hey, I was once on the irc.mozilla.org and never found this room, now clicked on it accidentally from Krijn's logs, and boom! it exists. Thought it was thuper thecret or something, marcoz
  234. # [13:43] <@marcoz> stommepoes: Not at all! We're just as open as the rest of Mozilla. :)
  235. # [13:43] <stommepoes> For some reason Opera only remember, on new start up, the html-wg room/server though.
  236. # [13:44] <stommepoes> There were indeed a bazillion mozilla rooms marcoz, but I used search I swear! :)
  237. # [13:45] * Joins: surkov (surkov@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  238. # [13:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  239. # [13:52] <SteveF> eeejay: early feedback suggests self identifying as an SR user is a non starter https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/408552786331058176
  240. # [13:53] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-4D28BA20.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  241. # [13:54] <@eeejay> marcoz, not yet
  242. # [13:54] <@eeejay> SteveF, kind of a biased user research
  243. # [14:04] <@firebot> twalker@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(twalker@mozilla.c om) on bug 883059.
  244. # [14:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883059 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in mozilla::a11y::EventQueue::PushEvent
  245. # [14:04] <stommepoes> My comment mentioning cookie law was more from the suggestion I saw in the logs about the always/never/whatever asking of the user. I'm sure geoloc question is better implemented, but the cookie popup thing (implemented by authors under duress) is a disaster.
  246. # [14:05] <SteveF> eeejay: sure but what is needed from users is buy in otherwise the concept is not useful
  247. # [14:06] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr changed the Component on bug 946626 from Untriaged to Keyboard: Navigation.
  248. # [14:06] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr changed the Product on bug 946626 from Firefox to Core.
  249. # [14:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=946626 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Control + arrow keys shortcut not functioning
  250. # [14:08] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr requested needinfo from paul374@live.jp on bug 946626.
  251. # [14:14] * Quits: arky (arky@B9988FC3.C6021428.FA662B63.IP) (Ping timeout)
  252. # [14:17] <@eeejay> SteveF, I'm also thinking about this from a perspective of firefox os certified apps that would have implicit permissions
  253. # [14:20] <@marcoz> eeejay: SteveF: I know this is only difficult to compare, but both iOS and Android have ways to detect whether VoiceOver/Talkback or other assistive technologies are being used. Apps can easily ask for this info on iOS. Android, I assume, is similarly easy. I know we detect different ATs in Firefox for Android.
  254. # [14:21] <@marcoz> Those would be comparable to Firefox OS privileged or system apps.
  255. # [14:21] <@eeejay> ah, i forgot about android :)
  256. # [14:22] <@marcoz> eeejay: I know the feeling, happens to me, too. :)
  257. # [14:22] <@eeejay> hehe
  258. # [14:22] <SteveF> marcoz: on the OS/browser level i think its acceptable, its informing sites that is a problem
  259. # [14:23] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  260. # [14:23] <@marcoz> eeejay: Different topic: Does git pull without any arguments always pull in from the remote of the current branch, or from the remote named origin? So if I wanted to update whatever yzen has in his repos and then work with that, would I do git pull from one of his branches, or would I do git pull yzen while in one of his branches? (I mean one of his branches is checked out)
  261. # [14:24] <@marcoz> SteveF: I realize that, and I also agree with Jennifer and others that this is problematic info to share. In an ideal world, sites should not have to know a damn about what assistive technology is being used on the other side of the browser.
  262. # [14:25] <@eeejay> marcoz, finally reproduced something.. in the new contacts window, you could bring up the keyboard for one field, but the not the other?
  263. # [14:25] <@marcoz> SteveF: I think we should find a solution here that web developers can work with and browser vendors can implement, possibly also involving ATs, but without infringing on the privacy of our mutual users.
  264. # [14:26] <SteveF> marcoz: I am unclear why sites need to know
  265. # [14:26] <@eeejay> i think the line between an app and a website is very blurry here. it is legit for an app to know about an AT, but not a website
  266. # [14:26] <@marcoz> eeejay: Then you got further than I, I could not bring up the keyboard for any of them. :)
  267. # [14:26] <@eeejay> on the other hand, a native app is sometimes a glorified website that you would not want to share that info with either.
  268. # [14:27] <@marcoz> eeejay: :) Well, in any case, the web content has no access to that info on either Android or iOS. Only real native apps do.
  269. # [14:27] <SteveF> eeejay: right but its about perception and there are/will be a significant group of users that won't allow it
  270. # [14:28] <@marcoz> SteveF: Exactly. And we should not implement something that has the potential to render two totally different things for two persons using the same version of a browser and an assistive technology, only the one has said yes to sharing AT info, the other has said no.
  271. # [14:28] <@marcoz> That would make web developers' lives even harder than it already is. And yes, I believe web accessibility, esp some advanced stuff, is really a difficult field to master.
  272. # [14:30] <SteveF> marcoz: thats why the imperfect but conceptually simple aria-hidden=false override of hidden is alluring (to me at least) :-)
  273. # [14:30] * Joins: arky (arky@E1EC2BCC.A02F62B6.FA662B63.IP)
  274. # [14:33] <SteveF> i also think if sites were able to gather SR usage data it would not be used for the benefit if the users
  275. # [14:38] <stommepoes> Regarding aria-hidden... I must implement icky popup modal thingie, a lightbox. I'm trying out aria-hidden on the page container (almost everything in the body except some jQ UI junk already display:none and the lightbox itself)...
  276. # [14:39] <stommepoes> One possible positive thing if sites could measure sr users, if every user agreed *and* was honest (lawlz) was we'd maybe finally have some numbers to give teh CEOs showing any increase/decrease ROI between accessible and inaccessible site ("accessible" meaning all the perfect stuff that doesn't exist, for sake of idea)
  277. # [14:41] <SteveF> what we need to do is force users to expose personal information to every site...
  278. # [14:42] <stommepoes> Merka's already been workin on that Steve-O
  279. # [14:42] <stommepoes> Let's get some Facebook guys in here...
  280. # [14:43] <@marcoz> LOL
  281. # [14:44] <stommepoes> meh, aria-hidden's a bit useless without hidden when it comes to keyboard... do I really need to manually check all focusables in a dialog and force each tab to loop back to the top of the dialog? There should be a one-command thing to do this.
  282. # [14:45] <stommepoes> better yet, it should be pre-built into all the jquery-whatever lightboxy/dialog plugins.
  283. # [14:47] <@eeejay> marcoz, could i mail you patch to test?
  284. # [14:49] <@marcoz> eeejay: Sure!
  285. # [14:50] <@eeejay> bah, the lockscreen is broken again??
  286. # [14:50] <@marcoz> eeejay: Oh no, why's that? I am using yesterday's build and it works fine there. At least I can unlock the phone.
  287. # [14:57] <@marcoz> eeejay: Building with your patch now. Haven't built in a few days, so will take a moment before I have results.
  288. # [15:03] <@marcoz> eeejay: Can we have tests for this lock screen thing somehow so it doesn't get re-broken every other day?
  289. # [15:04] <@eeejay> marcoz, yeah, fixed it, and now adding a test
  290. # [15:04] <@eeejay> marcoz, we had tests up for review a long time ago that bit rotted
  291. # [15:04] <@eeejay> before they merged repos
  292. # [15:06] <@marcoz> eeejay: Great that you could fix it so easily!
  293. # [15:06] <@eeejay> marcoz, i just re-added those 3 lines :P
  294. # [15:08] * Quits: arky (arky@E1EC2BCC.A02F62B6.FA662B63.IP) (Quit: Leaving)
  295. # [15:08] <@marcoz> eeejay: So hopefully the test will make sure they don't waltz over us again!
  296. # [15:17] <@marcoz> eeejay: Progress on that Add Contact panel: Focus goes to each of those entry fields now, but the keyboard does not come up at alll.
  297. # [15:18] <@eeejay> weird! i am sure i saw it here
  298. # [15:21] <@marcoz> eeejay: I hear the activation earcon on every field now, and I can activate items such as changing the e-mail type from "Personal" to "Home" or so, but none of the fields get a cursor and I don't get a keyboard.
  299. # [15:21] <@marcoz> eeejay: I also now can activate the Exit button at the top left, couldn't do that yesterday.
  300. # [15:22] <@eeejay> marcoz, the vc was being held hostage by the focused entry before this patch
  301. # [15:23] <@marcoz> eeejay: Interesting!
  302. # [15:23] <@marcoz> Well at least that is fixed now! :-)
  303. # [15:25] * Joins: yzen (yzen@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  304. # [15:25] <yzen> eeejay: hi
  305. # [15:25] <@eeejay> yzen, yo!
  306. # [15:27] * Joins: davidb|afk (uid12418@moz-31ABA2C0.irccloud.com)
  307. # [15:28] <yzen> eeejay: i had a question about the screen reader generated event. i found some issues in the diaper app where click event listeners use evt.target.dataset and then act on that
  308. # [15:29] <@eeejay> ok
  309. # [15:29] <yzen> eeejay: does it mean i need to add a touch related event listener?
  310. # [15:29] <@eeejay> yzen, in addition to the click listener?
  311. # [15:29] <yzen> ya
  312. # [15:29] <@eeejay> yzen, have lines of code?
  313. # [15:29] <yzen> ya one sec
  314. # [15:30] <yzen> eeejay: https://github.com/mozilla-b2g/gaia/blob/master/apps/communications/dialer/js/call_log.js#L591-L606
  315. # [15:30] <@marcoz> "diaper" is a nice auto-correct for dialer. :)
  316. # [15:30] <@marcoz> Hi yzen! :)
  317. # [15:30] <yzen> marcoz: hi :)
  318. # [15:30] <yzen> haha
  319. # [15:30] * @eeejay is sitting in a cafe listening to someone doing jazz covers of cyndi lauper songs
  320. # [15:31] <yzen> sweet )
  321. # [15:31] <@marcoz> eeejay: Sounds nice! And weird! And interesting! :)
  322. # [15:31] <@eeejay> yah :)
  323. # [15:31] <@firebot> epinal99-bugzilla@yahoo.fr changed the Component on bug 946258 from Untriaged to Keyboard Navigation.
  324. # [15:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=946258 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, From the add-on bar, an add-on's user interface cannot be opened using the keyboard
  325. # [15:32] <@eeejay> yzen, i don't see an issue here, the dataset is the data associated with that element
  326. # [15:32] <yzen> eeejay: yes
  327. # [15:32] <@eeejay> yzen, and for the record, we prefer click events, but we handle both fine
  328. # [15:32] <yzen> however i found that it is simply not doing anything
  329. # [15:32] <yzen> i would assume that the click bubbles
  330. # [15:32] <@eeejay> yzen, if the browser has touch events enabled we bookend mousedown/mouseup with toushstart/touchend
  331. # [15:33] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  332. # [15:33] <@eeejay> yzen, are you sure that accessfu is activating the right element, not a child or parent?
  333. # [15:33] <yzen> eeejay: so what's going on here is that the listener is on the container for the list of previous calls, so when you click on the list item the handler for the container deals with it, not the list item
  334. # [15:34] <yzen> that's the thing
  335. # [15:34] <@eeejay> yzen, in this case a bubbling event is not good enough, since it checks the target
  336. # [15:34] <@eeejay> the target will not be the container, but the deepest child in propogation, afaik
  337. # [15:35] <@eeejay> yzen, the homescreen icon grid is very similar
  338. # [15:36] <yzen> eeejay: alright ill take a look, other than that i updated the pull with yours and marcoz's comments, tested on call finally too :) it works pretty well
  339. # [15:38] <@eeejay> yzen, awesome!
  340. # [15:38] <@eeejay> yzen, with what device?
  341. # [15:42] <yzen> inari
  342. # [15:43] <@eeejay> cool
  343. # [15:43] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  344. # [15:43] <@eeejay> okay, i'm outta here. i'll check in with y'all later
  345. # [15:43] <@eeejay> marcoz, waiting for travis success with my new lockscreen test:
  346. # [15:43] <@eeejay> https://travis-ci.org/mozilla-b2g/gaia/builds/14984863
  347. # [15:43] <@marcoz> yzen: eeejay: So what's the correct command to pull in the updated stuff? git pull yzen so it pulls the stuff directly into the local files while I have yzen's branch checked out?
  348. # [15:43] * Quits: davidb|afk (uid12418@moz-31ABA2C0.irccloud.com) (Quit: )
  349. # [15:44] <@eeejay> marcoz, i'm assuming yzen squashed/rebased stuff, so maybe pull -f
  350. # [15:44] <@eeejay> but ask him, adios!
  351. # [15:44] <yzen> marcoz: you can also try git fetch yzen first
  352. # [15:44] <yzen> it will get the latest source
  353. # [15:45] <yzen> and then you should be able to merge with the latest version of my branch
  354. # [15:45] <@marcoz> yzen: OK, but not have your branch checked out at that time, right?
  355. # [15:45] <@marcoz> eeejay: Thanks for everything! Will see how the build goes!
  356. # [15:45] * Joins: davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  357. # [15:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  358. # [15:46] <@marcoz> yzen: I added your gaia fork as a remote on my end.
  359. # [15:46] <@davidb> heyo!
  360. # [15:47] <@davidb> http://billmccloskey.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/multiprocess-firefox/
  361. # [15:49] <@marcoz> Hi davidb! :)
  362. # [15:49] <@marcoz> yzen: So git fetch yzen gave me: + 79ed346...ff5f6ec 923139 -> yzen/923139 (forced update)
  363. # [15:49] <@marcoz> yzen: Among others. So I suppose it did give me the latest source. I was having my master, matched to origin/master, checked out at the time.
  364. # [15:55] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-B51E1692.austin.res.rr.com)
  365. # [16:02] <@davidb> hi hi
  366. # [16:02] <yzen> marcoz: so until you pull or merge it will not get into your current brach
  367. # [16:08] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
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  370. # [16:19] <yzen> hey marcoz , so you think dialer will not get in in time for dec 9 ?
  371. # [16:23] * Parts: stommepoes (stommepoes@1013F712.60B298BE.5B427D60.IP)
  372. # [16:28] <@marcoz> yzen: I don't know! Ask for review and we'll see!
  373. # [16:28] <yzen> :) ok
  374. # [16:28] <@marcoz> yzen: I would love for it to get in! I just don't know if they'll let us! :)
  375. # [16:36] <@marcoz> OK, https://travis-ci.org/mozilla-b2g/gaia/builds/14984863 said the build failed, but at least I cannot identify which job failed.
  376. # [16:38] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@D2069856.FE797095.222B27F0.IP)
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  379. # [16:54] <@marcoz> Gijs: Hi! Could you take a quick look at bug 942650's dependency and possible tagging? This is an Australlis specific fix, so should probably be marked as such somehow.
  380. # [16:56] <Gijs> ugh
  381. # [16:57] <Gijs> that fix will break stuff
  382. # [16:57] <Gijs> and isn't marked as Australis-specific
  383. # [16:57] <Gijs> which will break more stuff when moving to holly
  384. # [16:57] <Gijs> marcoz: thanks for bringing it to my attention
  385. # [16:57] <@firebot> ioana.budnar@softvision.ro changed the Component on bug 639824 from General to Keyboard Navigation.
  386. # [16:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=639824 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, I dont like using mouse/trackpad while browsing web. So there should be a key on pressing which i sh
  387. # [17:01] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com on bug 942650.
  388. # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942650 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Some toolbars have unknown accessible role or worse
  389. # [17:05] <tbsaunde> Gijs: how? the old code is a nop
  390. # [17:06] <Gijs> tbsaunde: because the patch didn't make it clear the old nsIAccessibleProvider stuff has already been removed, just without removing the other stuff this code touched (why?)
  391. # [17:06] <Gijs> tbsaunde: I guess it won't break stuff right now, but the landing not having 'Australis' will break the merge
  392. # [17:06] * Joins: erkan^ (Erkan@moz-3085934C.adsl.online.nl)
  393. # [17:06] <Gijs> tbsaunde: anyway, which was the bug that caused this?
  394. # [17:06] <Gijs> where did nsIAccessibleProvider get removed?
  395. # [17:07] <tbsaunde> Gijs: it got removed a couple months ago iirc bug 846185
  396. # [17:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=846185 nor, --, mozilla26, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, don't call into nsIAccessibleProviders during a11y tree update
  397. # [17:08] <tbsaunde> Gijs: why does the commit message matter to merging?
  398. # [17:08] <tbsaunde> I don't get why anything else should have been removed the rest of the patch is unrelated comment fix up
  399. # [17:09] <Gijs> tbsaunde: because merging that patch to holly (m-c-without-australis) will not work, because the touched file doesn't exist there
  400. # [17:09] <Gijs> tbsaunde: so it'll need to be backed out
  401. # [17:09] <Gijs> before merging
  402. # [17:09] <Gijs> and so we ask everyone to mark their patches so that we know what to back out when merging
  403. # [17:09] <tbsaunde> yeah, but that should be trivial to resolve or do you try and automate the merge somehow
  404. # [17:09] <Gijs> Kind of says so on the TBPL page
  405. # [17:09] <@firebot> ioana.budnar@softvision.ro changed the Component on bug 672987 from General to Keyboard Navigation.
  406. # [17:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672987 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Apple Left (Command Left) fails to go back.
  407. # [17:10] <Gijs> It wouldn't be trivial if nobody marked their patches, and so we ask everyone to do it.
  408. # [17:10] <Gijs> irrespective of how trivial or otherwise the patch is
  409. # [17:10] <Gijs> doesn't seem that unreasonable to me
  410. # [17:10] <Gijs> there'll be a push hook soon
  411. # [17:10] <tbsaunde> who looks at tbpl anymore? ;)
  412. # [17:10] <Gijs> ...
  413. # [17:11] <tbsaunde> seriously I basically never look at anything but try
  414. # [17:11] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) on bug 942650.
  415. # [17:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942650 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Some toolbars have unknown accessible role or worse
  416. # [17:11] <tbsaunde> its pretty unclear to me that read commit log back stuff out merge is easier than merge and resolve conflicts but *shrug* I guess
  417. # [17:12] <SteveF> surkov: thanks, thats the right place to get changes made to the html spec :-)
  418. # [17:12] <Gijs> tbsaunde: hg log -k can automate the commit log stuff :)
  419. # [17:12] <Gijs> (ie figuring out what needs to be backed out)
  420. # [17:12] <@surkov> SteveF: agree
  421. # [17:12] <Gijs> resolving the conflicts in messed up browser.css files is very much not trivial
  422. # [17:12] <SteveF> surkov: it will also be less volatile for discussion
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  431. # [17:49] <SteveF> surkov: its the HTML WG members such as yourself who are the final arbiters of what goes into the HTML spec, not the editors :-)
  432. # [17:49] <SteveF> surkov: we just use a commit then review model
  433. # [17:50] <@davidb> so we need to be watchful i guess
  434. # [17:50] <SteveF> davidb: exactly, and I usally try to pull you guys into any bugs that are relevant
  435. # [17:51] <SteveF> usually
  436. # [17:51] <@davidb> good
  437. # [17:51] <@davidb> that didn't happen with aria so much - when i stopped attending the main calls
  438. # [17:52] <@davidb> i can only stab myself in the face so much
  439. # [17:52] <@surkov> thank you, SteveF :)
  440. # [17:52] <@davidb> yes, thanks SteveF :)
  441. # [17:55] <@surkov> davidb: btw, why did you stopped?
  442. # [17:55] <SteveF> davidb: well hopefully going forward aria 1.1 will have an open bug tracker and bugzilla component please add your voices to this bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23803 and see related thread on wai-xtech http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Nov/0013.html
  443. # [17:55] <SteveF> what seems like a simple request....
  444. # [17:55] <@davidb> surkov: the 2 hour monday call became very very very slow
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  446. # [17:56] <@surkov> davidb: don't we lose some control in this field by means of that?
  447. # [17:56] <@davidb> surkov: yes.
  448. # [17:57] <@davidb> control/voice
  449. # [17:57] <@surkov> it's sad
  450. # [17:57] <SteveF> davidb: you can always fund me to sit on the calls on your behalf :-)
  451. # [17:57] <@davidb> can discuss at lunch :)
  452. # [17:57] <@surkov> right
  453. # [17:57] <@davidb> SteveF: interesting
  454. # [17:58] <@davidb> clown became an excellent proxy of sorts... since he and I almost always agree
  455. # [17:58] <SteveF> davidb: thanks for responding on bug!
  456. # [17:58] <@davidb> i'm not good with things that drag on for years being 'almost done'
  457. # [17:58] <@davidb> SteveF: my pleasure
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  459. # [17:59] <clown> davidb, no we don't. ;-)
  460. # [17:59] <@davidb> clown: you're right.
  461. # [17:59] <@davidb> ;)
  462. # [18:00] <clown> davidb: no I'm not.
  463. # [18:00] * tbsaunde gets his dead fish out
  464. # [18:01] * clown sounds like a monty python routine
  465. # [18:01] <SteveF> davidb: but i think if you keep an eye on bugs and tracker and attend selectively when issues of importance arise you should be OK with aria 1.1
  466. # [18:02] <@davidb> SteveF: yes. although that was roughly my plan with the latter years of aria 1.0
  467. # [18:02] <@davidb> i failed
  468. # [18:02] <SteveF> davidb: only yourself to blame then... ;-)
  469. # [18:02] <@davidb> +1
  470. # [18:03] <SteveF> davidb: i plan to be more active in 1.1 which may help
  471. # [18:03] <@davidb> yes and surkov is more directly involved now
  472. # [18:03] <SteveF> davidb: ahh surkov the trouble maker
  473. # [18:04] <@davidb> surkov has a keen eye for details and complex considerations
  474. # [18:04] <SteveF> problem with surkov is he has views, need to beat that out of him
  475. # [18:04] <@surkov> :)
  476. # [18:04] <@davidb> yes very frustrating, he has strong positions on things that are usually correct
  477. # [18:04] <@davidb> :)
  478. # [18:05] <@davidb> man i'm hungry
  479. # [18:06] <@davidb> clown: what do you think about https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23803
  480. # [18:06] <@davidb> i know you are used to the IRC bot things now...
  481. # [18:06] * clown looks, but is very busy with last minute UAIG edits...
  482. # [18:06] <@davidb> as you will.
  483. # [18:06] <@davidb> of course.
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  485. # [18:08] * clown and is actually thinking seriously about lunch.
  486. # [18:08] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you following the problems with FF 25 + orca?
  487. # [18:08] <@davidb> (I think Alex is assigned the main bug)
  488. # [18:09] <@davidb> but folks I know have had to revert to FF 24
  489. # [18:09] <@davidb> and to get a fix in... and ride the trains... is worrisome
  490. # [18:09] <@davidb> in terms of length of time they must use 24
  491. # [18:10] <@marcoz> SteveF: Added my +1 as well.
  492. # [18:10] <@marcoz> And am now going offline for the evening. :) See you all tomorrow!
  493. # [18:10] <@davidb> ciao!
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  496. # [18:12] <@surkov> I need to check whether there's a quick fix for that orca thing
  497. # [18:13] <@davidb> would be great
  498. # [18:13] <@davidb> joanie probably has insight
  499. # [18:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde, surkov roll in about 5-10?
  500. # [18:17] <@surkov> good
  501. # [18:18] <@davidb> surkov, tbsaunde roll!
  502. # [18:18] <@surkov> ok
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  515. # [20:18] <tbsaunde> davidb|afk: not really, haven't had time to read orca email list much recently :(
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  520. # [21:31] <erkan^> is orca a accessibilty software, tbsaunde ?
  521. # [21:31] <tbsaunde> why don't you ask google that?
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  526. # [22:02] <tbsaunde> hey, centos6 has new enough atk we can remove the dlsym stuff for atk socket as well as the hyperlink stuff \O/
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  531. # [22:52] <@davidb> tbsaunde: sounds good
  532. # [22:53] <tbsaunde> davidb: I guess you mena the dlsym thing not ignoring the orca list?
  533. # [22:54] <@davidb> i was thinking more it sounded like we can remove kruft
  534. # [22:54] <@davidb> but i'm not really sure i have full context
  535. # [22:55] <tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, just wasn't sure which comment you were refering too
  536. # [22:55] <@davidb> ah
  537. # [22:55] <@davidb> yes i don't like the sound of ignoring the orca list :)
  538. # [22:56] <tbsaunde> I don't either, but so much noise so little time
  539. # [22:56] <tbsaunde> :(
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  550. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 868789 from nobody@mozilla.org to taken.spc@gmail.com.
  551. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 868789.
  552. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 868789 from --- to FIXED.
  553. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 868789 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  554. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 868789 from --- to mozilla28.
  555. # [23:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868789 nor, --, mozilla28, taken.spc, RESO FIXED, Name computation for SVG is wrong
  556. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 942650 from --- to FIXED.
  557. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 942650 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  558. # [23:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 942650 from --- to mozilla28.
  559. # [23:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=942650 nor, --, mozilla28, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Some toolbars have unknown accessible role or worse
  560. # [23:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 920946 from --- to FIXED.
  561. # [23:41] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 920946 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  562. # [23:41] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 920946 from --- to mozilla28.
  563. # [23:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920946 nor, --, mozilla28, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Touch typing does not work when initially placing finger on a key
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  568. # Session Close: Fri Dec 06 00:00:00 2013

The end :)