/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-01-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 09 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  19. # [02:20] <@firebot> Ken@klbproductions.com changed the Resolution on bug 572626 from --- to WORKSFORME.
  20. # [02:20] <@firebot> Ken@klbproductions.com changed the Status on bug 572626 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  21. # [02:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=572626 cri, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Java applet which has a login dialog and i can not put the focus on password field to enter password
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  37. # [11:26] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 886208 from nobody@mozilla.org to trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  38. # [11:26] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 886208 from --- to FIXED.
  39. # [11:26] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 886208 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  40. # [11:27] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 886208 from --- to mozilla29.
  41. # [11:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886208 nor, --, mozilla29, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, "ASSERTION: No accessible parent" emptying a textbox
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  49. # [13:15] <@firebot> jdiggs@igalia.com changed the Resolution on bug 957306 from --- to INVALID.
  50. # [13:15] <@firebot> jdiggs@igalia.com changed the Status on bug 957306 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  51. # [13:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=957306 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, atk_text_get_text() should return an empty string when the start and end offsets are the same
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  55. # [14:00] <@marcoz> Good day all!
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  59. # [14:21] <@davidb> heyo!
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  62. # [14:55] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(dbolter@mozilla.c om) on bug 845134.
  63. # [14:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=845134 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent content/a11y/accessible/focus/test_focusedChild.html | Test timed out.
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  78. # [15:46] <@marcoz> Whoohoo, nothing seems to be broken in Gaia at the moment. Unlocking the phone etc. all still work. :)
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  81. # [16:03] <@davidb> excellent news
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  84. # [16:09] <icaaq> I've been testing the new australis tour think today. marcoz do you want to give it a go? you need to install a custom build of nighty.
  85. # [16:10] <icaaq> thing*
  86. # [16:11] <icaaq> it doesn't work well for me when using nvda though :(
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  95. # [16:53] <@marcoz> icaaq: The thing with Australis is that blind users will barely notice it, since the regular menus and keyboard behaviour is still working as it always has.
  96. # [16:54] <@marcoz> icaaq: So, the new fancy menu panel is currently something mostly for mouse users. So I'm currently not particularly worried if the tour doesn't work right yet. But by all means, feel free to file bugs. And talk to gijs, he is working on Australis (among other things).
  97. # [16:55] <Gijs> for the tour, it's better to talk to MattN and Unfocused, I think
  98. # [16:56] <Gijs> and yeah, the keyboard accessibility in the menu panel is very far from perfect
  99. # [16:56] <Gijs> to the point that people have suggested we should back out the minimal set of things I added because having nothing is less confusing than the current state
  100. # [16:56] <icaaq> marcoz Gijs ok, that's what I experienced as well
  101. # [16:56] <Gijs> I don't know if/how that works wrt the tour
  102. # [16:58] <MattN> icaaq: hey, you can file bugs blocking 862998 for issues with the tour
  103. # [17:02] <@marcoz> Gijs: Out of curiosity: What's blocking you from completing keyboard support for the menu panel? Anything I can help with?
  104. # [17:02] <Gijs> marcoz: far too many higher prio bugs, and keyboard support for that thing is a nightmare
  105. # [17:03] <Gijs> marcoz: basically, there's no limit to what could be in that panel
  106. # [17:03] <Gijs> marcoz: it's much more complex than a 'regular' menu
  107. # [17:03] <Gijs> marcoz: and on top of that, regular menus don't affect focus
  108. # [17:03] <Gijs> (this is how copy/paste can work from menus, for instance)
  109. # [17:03] <Gijs> marcoz: emulating all of that in a XUL-provided panel is a lot of work
  110. # [17:04] * @marcoz is wondering if the term "menu" would even be accurate. :) Perhaps this should be treated more like a dialog panel or so, allowing more unconventional keyboard paradigms. :) Menus are kind of limited.
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  112. # [17:05] <@marcoz> Gijs: Yeah, I can imagine. Almost sounds like the complex ribbon controls in MS Office which also go way beyond being menus or toolbars.
  113. # [17:05] <Gijs> marcoz: well, right, but for it to be effective for keyboard users and other non-mouse-users, you need something better to navigate than just tab/shift-tab, which is what people currently use, or even access keys (which in menus don't need <alt>, and currently would need that in the panel menu), etc. etc.
  114. # [17:06] <@marcoz> Gijs: I get it! :) I think we even touched on the Copy & Paste problem briefly in this channel a few weeks before Xmas.
  115. # [17:07] <Gijs> yeah
  116. # [17:07] <Gijs> marcoz: and then if you start doing arrow focus, what happens if you move e.g. the search box to the panel, should the up/down arrow keys move inside the box, or move to a different item? etc. etc.
  117. # [17:07] <Gijs> ok, I'll stop ranting now :P
  118. # [17:07] <Gijs> but it's hard
  119. # [17:08] <Gijs> and so far, lots of much higher prio work, so I haven't looked at it again
  120. # [17:09] <@marcoz> Gijs: Yeah, if the search box showed autocomplete selection items, you will definitely want arrow keys to stay inside it. Oh yeah, I feel your pain! I sometimes feel that we'd all be better-off using touch screens only and get away with keyboards alltogether. :)
  121. # [17:14] <icaaq> ok, now I'm back, a problem with the tour is that " Take the tour, it all starts with our redesigned firefox menu, learn more button, not now button" is announced as an alert when you first load the page. but then it's like impossible to activate the buttons
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  123. # [17:16] <icaaq> MattN: should i file a bug for that you think? :)
  124. # [17:17] <MattN> yeah, we should probably make sure the focus goes to that panel
  125. # [17:17] <MattN> that would fix it, right?
  126. # [17:17] * clown_meeting is now known as clown
  127. # [17:20] <icaaq> yes, sort of
  128. # [17:24] <icaaq> the problem is that when the actual html-tour begins… when should the focus be moved to the right spot? maybe the tour should be one big aria-live :)
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  130. # [17:30] <@marcoz> icaaq: Careful with aria-live, that can quickly become overwhelming. And moreover, it is fleeing. Once spoken, the information cannot be easily be repeated. So we have to have a means to focus it properly.
  131. # [17:34] <icaaq> marcoz: yes. i know. tricky…
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  140. # [18:51] <SteveF> "After a little while, I stopped using Chrome on the Nexus/7 and installed Mozilla FireFox." http://chrishofstader.com/testing-android-accessibility-i-give-up/
  141. # [18:52] <SteveF> "Mozilla’s team has demonstrated that it is possible to make a browser on Android profoundly more accessible than Google attempted with Chrome."
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  143. # [19:02] <@davidb> SteveF: can you repost that for eeejay?
  144. # [19:02] <eeejay> :)
  145. # [19:02] <@davidb> although I'm sure he has seen it
  146. # [19:03] <eeejay> copy/paste?
  147. # [19:03] <@davidb> <SteveF> "After a little while, I stopped using Chrome on the Nexus/7 and installed Mozilla FireFox." http://chrishofstader.com/testing-android-accessibility-i-give-up/
  148. # [19:03] <@davidb> <SteveF> "Mozilla’s team has demonstrated that it is possible to make a browser on Android profoundly more accessible than Google attempted with Chrome."
  149. # [19:03] <@davidb> [1:04pm] eeejay joined the chat room.
  150. # [19:03] <eeejay> neat
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  175. # [22:50] * @davidb marvels at the talent that hangs out in this channel
  176. # [22:51] <@davidb> gotta run
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  187. # Session Close: Fri Jan 10 00:00:00 2014

The end :)