/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-01-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jan 21 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  28. # [07:30] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Hi! You still awake by chance?
  29. # [07:34] <maxli> MarcoZ: Hi, yes, for a little
  30. # [07:34] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Thank you so much for fixing bug 961612! I am just about to steal the review from eeejay so we can check this in right away.
  31. # [07:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=961612 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Explore by Touch uses wrong coordinates on HiDPI Android devices
  32. # [07:35] <@MarcoZ> We need to backport this to Aurora and Beta so it gets into 27.
  33. # [07:35] <@MarcoZ> maxli: I just wanted to check whether you are OK with this course of action. :)
  34. # [07:36] <maxli> MarcoZ: Sure, works for me
  35. # [07:36] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Cool!
  36. # [07:39] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Done. Do you want to land this on Inbound? I can watch the tree in case anything bad happens, which I don't foresee.
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  38. # [07:46] <maxli> MarcoZ: Could you do it for me? Don't have inbound checked out on this machine
  39. # [07:46] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Sure thing!
  40. # [07:47] <cabanier> tbsaunde: ping
  41. # [07:47] <cabanier> tbsaunde: were you able to look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958241?
  42. # [07:47] <@firebot> Bug 958241 nor, --, ---, cabanier, NEW, Update drawCustomFocusRing so it notifies the a11y code of the correct bounding rect
  43. # [07:55] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 961612 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  44. # [07:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=961612 nor, --, ---, maxli, ASSI, [AccessFu] Explore by Touch uses wrong coordinates on HiDPI Android devices
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  62. # [10:40] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 962007 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  63. # [10:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
  64. # [10:53] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from neil@httl.net on bug 962007.
  65. # [10:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
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  68. # [11:53] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 962022 filed by aharon@google.com.
  69. # [11:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962022 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Ctrl-Shift on Windows sets directionality for <input> and <textarea>, but not contenteditable
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  77. # [12:31] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Hi! I thought that ultimately, bug 940040 was about all menu bars, not just the ones on Linux. But I was confused by the back and forth a bit.
  78. # [12:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=940040 nor, --, mozilla29, neil, RESO FIXED, Pressing and releasing "Alt" opens the File menu, on Linux (when it should just reveal the menu bar)
  79. # [12:31] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I don't know if the fix only touched linux code
  80. # [12:32] <Gijs> MarcoZ: certainly the original issue was linux-only
  81. # [12:32] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but it's totally possible that the fix touched windows code and therefore broke stuff - that's why I needinfo'd :)
  82. # [12:32] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Well, we'll let Neil comment. Anyway this is quite annoying, I mean bug 962007.
  83. # [12:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
  84. # [12:32] <Gijs> Yeah, I can imagine...
  85. # [12:37] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: I have yet to encounter a password prompt or so, to see if other doorhangers are also affected. But somehow I believe they might.
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  87. # [12:38] <Gijs> MarcoZ: easy to check, go to any intranet site, like phonebook.m.o :(
  88. # [12:39] <@MarcoZ> Oh yeah, right.
  89. # [12:45] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Others seem to be fine.So, only Click To Play is affected. Might be unrelated to the menu bug after all.
  90. # [12:47] <Gijs> MarcoZ: huh, interesting. What's the regression range?
  91. # [12:47] <Gijs> MarcoZ: note that updates were disabled over the weekend until late yesterday
  92. # [12:48] <Gijs> MarcoZ: so even if this was the first nightly you saw it on, there might actually be 3-4 days that you'd need to bisect...
  93. # [12:48] <Gijs> (I would help but I'm in the London office today and my windows desktop machine is at home)
  94. # [12:48] <Gijs> (I have a VM, but I'm currently using the other linux VM to do a build, and don't fancy killing my laptop)
  95. # [12:53] <@firebot> neil@httl.net cancelled needinfo?(neil@httl.net) on bug 962007.
  96. # [12:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
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  98. # [13:18] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 961612 from --- to FIXED.
  99. # [13:18] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 961612 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  100. # [13:18] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 961612 from --- to mozilla29.
  101. # [13:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=961612 nor, --, mozilla29, maxli, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Explore by Touch uses wrong coordinates on HiDPI Android devices
  102. # [13:19] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 952782 from --- to FIXED.
  103. # [13:19] * agibson|afk is now known as agibson
  104. # [13:19] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 952782 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  105. # [13:19] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 952782 from --- to mozilla29.
  106. # [13:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=952782 nor, --, mozilla29, dzbarsky, RESO FIXED, Use nsIDocument instead of nsIDOMDocument in accessible
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  113. # [14:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, is there a reason <input type=input readonly> is supposed to have the editable state?
  114. # [14:55] <@surkov> tbsaunde: readonly and editable are sort of opposite so I'd need to check, however iirc disabled input should expose editable state
  115. # [14:57] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so the answer is no since ATK deals with editable state only
  116. # [15:01] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why does atk matter here?
  117. # [15:04] <@surkov> because logical conclusion can give you an opposite result here, ATK adds practical value for reasoning
  118. # [15:05] <@surkov> so that if we wanted to expose editable state on readonly inputs then ATK would expose editable state always (having no special state maps processing)
  119. # [15:05] <@surkov> and AT would think that readonly input is editable one
  120. # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that's a nice theory, but I just found bug 733382 :/
  121. # [15:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733382 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, editable state bit should be presented on readonly inputs
  122. # [15:06] <@MarcoZ> surkov: But can you honestly think of any situation where readonly and editable would be present simultaneously? IIRC, the fact that something is a textbox is determined by its role, not just the states.
  123. # [15:07] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Oh interesting...
  124. # [15:07] <@surkov> MarcoZ: the need of it? not sure
  125. # [15:09] <@surkov> that's interesting:
  126. # [15:09] <@surkov> 3. Unfortunately, to make things even more confusing, a control with ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT but STATE_SYSTEM_READONLY that isn't focusable is a text leaf node. So, if we have:
  127. # [15:09] <@surkov> <input type="text" readonly disabled>
  128. # [15:09] <@surkov> Now we can't tell that this is actually a disabled read-only editable text field instead of a disabled text leaf node.
  129. # [15:09] <@surkov> so tbsaunde the answer is yes :)
  130. # [15:09] <@surkov> ;)
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  134. # [15:12] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: After reading the bug again, esp Jamie's comment #8, I agree with surkov. :)
  135. # [15:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hm, that's kind of annoying
  136. # [15:13] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it's hard to be not agree with Jamie :)
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  138. # [15:13] <@MarcoZ> surkov: LOL you are right! :)
  139. # [15:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm still trying to understand what's meant by the a control is a text leaf node
  140. # [15:14] <@MarcoZ> surkov: But then, that's one reason our APIs are so good. Jamie has good arguments, and the experience from an AT vendor's perspective.
  141. # [15:14] <@tbsaunde> I guess he means it looks the same?
  142. # [15:14] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Exactly.
  143. # [15:15] <@surkov> нуз
  144. # [15:15] <@surkov> yep
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  146. # [15:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, why do you want to tell between those two things? it seems like they're fairly similar
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  148. # [15:17] <@tbsaunde> off hand I'm not really sure what it would mean for a text leaf to be disabled
  149. # [15:18] <@tbsaunde> but it seems pretty reasonable to me for <input type=input readonly> and <p. to look the same
  150. # [15:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: they look differently visually
  151. # [15:19] <@surkov> so AT wants to know difference due to some reason
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  153. # [15:20] <@tbsaunde> I guess that's fairish
  154. # [15:20] <@surkov> not sure why disabled is there but <input readonly> should be looking the same as text node
  155. # [15:20] <@surkov> if we have no editable state
  156. # [15:20] <@tbsaunde> it seems kind of unfortunate that atk will then think its editable though
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  158. # [15:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: on ark layer we should remove editable bit if readonly is presented
  159. # [15:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, or we could add editable bit in msaa / ia2 layer
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  161. # [15:33] <@surkov> that probably works too, we need to ask what jsat needs
  162. # [15:38] <@MarcoZ> surkov: eeejay has a final say on this, but I believe we do not look at the editable state, we look for read-only to check whether we should utter something specific for that.
  163. # [15:39] <@surkov> so they don't care
  164. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> Holy shit! I am just now looking at the MS Word in the web browser offering from Microsoft. Word is totally accessible in Firefox, using WAI-ARIA and stuff, and it works just nicely!
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  170. # [15:54] <@surkov> awesome
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  178. # [16:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: looks like jsat uses EDITABLE state in one place at EventManager.jsm:181
  179. # [16:20] <@tbsaunde> apparently they ignore caret moves in things that aren't editable, but only if they were also non editable previously??
  180. # [16:20] <@surkov> they should use editable state if they want to support contentEditable
  181. # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so what do you think makes more sense input readonly is editable or not?
  182. # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> for internal layer
  183. # [16:22] <@surkov> tbsaunde: keeping it closer to editable vs disabled might be nicer
  184. # [16:23] <@surkov> I'm curious if latest ark didn't introduce readonly state
  185. # [16:23] <@surkov> iirc we had some discussion with API and it was agreed that editable is rather permanent state
  186. # [16:24] <@surkov> tehy don't
  187. # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, not seeing any such state in master atk
  188. # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> I guess you could ask if you like
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  191. # [16:30] <@surkov> i don't see difference between readonly and editable controls on os x
  192. # [16:32] <@surkov> os x relies on editableInterface to create text accessible which has isReadonly method, so editable + readonly is not really needed for os x
  193. # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so how do you know you can't edit it?
  194. # [16:33] <@surkov> but since we fixed a bug readonly+editable already then I think atk needs a fix
  195. # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: by that isReadonly thing I guess
  196. # [16:33] <@surkov> it's from our sources, I didn't spot anything in accessibility inspector
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  198. # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't follow how this is an argument for states readonly and editable both being present
  199. # [16:36] <@tbsaunde> it seems to me if something is read only then its not editable ;)
  200. # [16:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: on cross platform layer we exposed readonly+editable for a while, it doesn't look we don't have a strong reason to change that now so if we get a fix on ATK then it's a smallest change to make things working
  201. # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> well, it doesn't make very much sense,
  202. # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> and I'm changing how we compute if something is editable again anyway
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  204. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> surkov: tbsaunde: We'll have to see if contentEditable works in JSAT or not. Jamie's argument in that bug's comment #8 may very well be valid for JSAT, too.
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  206. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I don't really buy jammie's point 2, istm "it may be editable in the future" is just as valid for <p> that could have conteditable set on it as when conteditable is set, but its disabled
  207. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> so I think this is basically just a hack because wndows uses the same role for text elements and inputs
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  209. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: OK, but at the end of the day, we definitely don't want those buttons to have the editable state. :)
  210. # [17:02] <@tbsaunde> sure
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  218. # [17:10] <@davidb> heyo!
  219. # [17:10] <@davidb> heyo!
  220. # [17:10] <@davidb> meeting in 15 :)
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  225. # [17:22] * @davidb heads to meeting room
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  230. # [17:29] <@davidb> surkov: we'll on in the accessibility vidyo room
  231. # [17:30] * Joins: askalski (akuda@2BA4E5A7.CC7751E8.6712E96B.IP)
  232. # [17:31] <@surkov> davidb: room status occupied
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  236. # [17:55] <eeejay> davidb, could you tell yzen about the gaia meeting in 2 minutes in the b2g vidyo room?
  237. # [17:55] * Joins: yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  238. # [17:56] <@davidb> "<eeejay> davidb, could you tell yzen about the gaia meeting in 2 minutes in the b2g vidyo room?"
  239. # [17:56] <eeejay> yzen, yo! in the don mills room in toronto
  240. # [17:56] <eeejay> yzen, i don't have anything to say in this meeting, but we should get a permanent accessibility section here
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  247. # [18:19] * Parts: eeejay (eeejay@moz-B3973587.xen.prgmr.com) (Ex-Chat)
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  249. # [18:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +o eeejay
  250. # [18:19] * eeejay sets mode: +o yzen
  251. # [18:19] <@eeejay> yzen, welcome!
  252. # [18:20] <@yzen> eeejay thanks :)
  253. # [18:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from the wind on bug 960228.
  254. # [18:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960228 nor, --, ---, jwei, NEW, Lists with selectable children should have ATK_ROLE_LIST_BOX
  255. # [18:21] <@eeejay> yzen, we should probably meet, and have a regular thing going as well. but to spare us both from another meeting today (and i am sure you overwhelmed), we could do it tomorrow?
  256. # [18:21] <@yzen> eeejay: sounds good, anytime works for me i guess
  257. # [18:22] <@eeejay> cool. i'll send an invite
  258. # [18:23] <@yzen> thanks
  259. # [18:27] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  260. # [18:38] <@firebot> jdiggs@igalia.com cancelled needinfo? on bug 960228.
  261. # [18:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960228 nor, --, ---, jwei, NEW, Lists with selectable children should have ATK_ROLE_LIST_BOX
  262. # [18:42] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Ping timeout)
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  267. # [19:14] <bermea> Hi all. We got a question on the forum about Firefox ESR 24 not meeting the 508 compliance. And need someone to actually give a response that'll help the user. Here's the thread https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/984004
  268. # [19:16] * Joins: yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  269. # [19:20] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
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  272. # [19:49] <@davidb> i
  273. # [19:49] <@davidb> i
  274. # [19:49] <@davidb> i'll email marco on that one
  275. # [19:55] <@davidb> ok going afk for 2 hours
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  278. # [20:02] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 962167 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
  279. # [20:02] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from dbolter@mozilla.c om on bug 962167.
  280. # [20:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962167 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, 508 Compliance for Firefox ESR 24.2.0
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  299. # [21:44] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from marco.zehe@google mail.com on bug 962167.
  300. # [21:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962167 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, 508 Compliance for Firefox ESR 24.2.0
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  305. # [22:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from bugs@pettay.fi on bug 959257.
  306. # [22:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=959257 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, google's search box may not emit caret move events
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  308. # [22:34] <icaaq> davidb is the native datepicker accessible? and do you know of any accessible fallback?
  309. # [22:35] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-B19F68ED.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  310. # [22:36] <@davidb> icaaq: desktop native or browser native?
  311. # [22:36] <icaaq> davidb browser
  312. # [22:36] <@davidb> wow didn't know we had one
  313. # [22:37] <@davidb> let me shake some fuzz out of my brain
  314. # [22:37] <icaaq> ahh, maybe we dont, i was thinking of input="date"
  315. # [22:37] <@davidb> yeah don't think we implemented a picker yet
  316. # [22:37] <@davidb> to do calendars right (i18n) is hard
  317. # [22:38] * icaaq on my way home from customer event with to much beer
  318. # [22:38] <@davidb> hehe
  319. # [22:38] <@davidb> hopefully not driving
  320. # [22:39] <icaaq> no, by train :)
  321. # [22:39] <@davidb> nice
  322. # [22:39] <icaaq> not driving
  323. # [22:39] <icaaq> the tarin
  324. # [22:39] <icaaq> train
  325. # [22:40] <@davidb> :)
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  331. # [23:04] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from bugs@pettay.fi on bug 956032.
  332. # [23:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=956032 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Accessible object:text-selection-changed event missing when all selected text becomes unselected
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  336. # [23:10] <@firebot> bugs@pettay.fi cancelled needinfo?(bugs@pettay.fi) on bug 956032.
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  341. # [23:57] <cabanier> tbsaunde: ping
  342. # [23:57] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-B19F68ED.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Quit: Leaving.)
  343. # Session Close: Wed Jan 22 00:00:00 2014

The end :)