/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-01-21 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Jan 21 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [07:30] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Hi! You still awake by chance?
- # [07:34] <maxli> MarcoZ: Hi, yes, for a little
- # [07:34] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Thank you so much for fixing bug 961612! I am just about to steal the review from eeejay so we can check this in right away.
- # [07:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=961612 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Explore by Touch uses wrong coordinates on HiDPI Android devices
- # [07:35] <@MarcoZ> We need to backport this to Aurora and Beta so it gets into 27.
- # [07:35] <@MarcoZ> maxli: I just wanted to check whether you are OK with this course of action. :)
- # [07:36] <maxli> MarcoZ: Sure, works for me
- # [07:36] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Cool!
- # [07:39] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Done. Do you want to land this on Inbound? I can watch the tree in case anything bad happens, which I don't foresee.
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- # [07:46] <maxli> MarcoZ: Could you do it for me? Don't have inbound checked out on this machine
- # [07:46] <@MarcoZ> maxli: Sure thing!
- # [07:47] <cabanier> tbsaunde: ping
- # [07:47] <cabanier> tbsaunde: were you able to look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958241?
- # [07:47] <@firebot> Bug 958241 nor, --, ---, cabanier, NEW, Update drawCustomFocusRing so it notifies the a11y code of the correct bounding rect
- # [07:55] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 961612 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [07:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=961612 nor, --, ---, maxli, ASSI, [AccessFu] Explore by Touch uses wrong coordinates on HiDPI Android devices
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- # [10:40] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 962007 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [10:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
- # [10:53] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from neil@httl.net on bug 962007.
- # [10:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
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- # [11:53] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 962022 filed by aharon@google.com.
- # [11:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962022 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Ctrl-Shift on Windows sets directionality for <input> and <textarea>, but not contenteditable
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- # [12:31] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Hi! I thought that ultimately, bug 940040 was about all menu bars, not just the ones on Linux. But I was confused by the back and forth a bit.
- # [12:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=940040 nor, --, mozilla29, neil, RESO FIXED, Pressing and releasing "Alt" opens the File menu, on Linux (when it should just reveal the menu bar)
- # [12:31] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I don't know if the fix only touched linux code
- # [12:32] <Gijs> MarcoZ: certainly the original issue was linux-only
- # [12:32] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but it's totally possible that the fix touched windows code and therefore broke stuff - that's why I needinfo'd :)
- # [12:32] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Well, we'll let Neil comment. Anyway this is quite annoying, I mean bug 962007.
- # [12:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
- # [12:32] <Gijs> Yeah, I can imagine...
- # [12:37] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: I have yet to encounter a password prompt or so, to see if other doorhangers are also affected. But somehow I believe they might.
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- # [12:38] <Gijs> MarcoZ: easy to check, go to any intranet site, like phonebook.m.o :(
- # [12:39] <@MarcoZ> Oh yeah, right.
- # [12:45] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Others seem to be fine.So, only Click To Play is affected. Might be unrelated to the menu bug after all.
- # [12:47] <Gijs> MarcoZ: huh, interesting. What's the regression range?
- # [12:47] <Gijs> MarcoZ: note that updates were disabled over the weekend until late yesterday
- # [12:48] <Gijs> MarcoZ: so even if this was the first nightly you saw it on, there might actually be 3-4 days that you'd need to bisect...
- # [12:48] <Gijs> (I would help but I'm in the London office today and my windows desktop machine is at home)
- # [12:48] <Gijs> (I have a VM, but I'm currently using the other linux VM to do a build, and don't fancy killing my laptop)
- # [12:53] <@firebot> neil@httl.net cancelled needinfo?(neil@httl.net) on bug 962007.
- # [12:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
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- # [13:18] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 961612 from --- to FIXED.
- # [13:18] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 961612 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [13:18] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 961612 from --- to mozilla29.
- # [13:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=961612 nor, --, mozilla29, maxli, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Explore by Touch uses wrong coordinates on HiDPI Android devices
- # [13:19] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 952782 from --- to FIXED.
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- # [13:19] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 952782 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [13:19] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 952782 from --- to mozilla29.
- # [13:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=952782 nor, --, mozilla29, dzbarsky, RESO FIXED, Use nsIDocument instead of nsIDOMDocument in accessible
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- # [14:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, is there a reason <input type=input readonly> is supposed to have the editable state?
- # [14:55] <@surkov> tbsaunde: readonly and editable are sort of opposite so I'd need to check, however iirc disabled input should expose editable state
- # [14:57] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so the answer is no since ATK deals with editable state only
- # [15:01] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why does atk matter here?
- # [15:04] <@surkov> because logical conclusion can give you an opposite result here, ATK adds practical value for reasoning
- # [15:05] <@surkov> so that if we wanted to expose editable state on readonly inputs then ATK would expose editable state always (having no special state maps processing)
- # [15:05] <@surkov> and AT would think that readonly input is editable one
- # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that's a nice theory, but I just found bug 733382 :/
- # [15:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733382 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, editable state bit should be presented on readonly inputs
- # [15:06] <@MarcoZ> surkov: But can you honestly think of any situation where readonly and editable would be present simultaneously? IIRC, the fact that something is a textbox is determined by its role, not just the states.
- # [15:07] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Oh interesting...
- # [15:07] <@surkov> MarcoZ: the need of it? not sure
- # [15:09] <@surkov> that's interesting:
- # [15:09] <@surkov> 3. Unfortunately, to make things even more confusing, a control with ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT but STATE_SYSTEM_READONLY that isn't focusable is a text leaf node. So, if we have:
- # [15:09] <@surkov> <input type="text" readonly disabled>
- # [15:09] <@surkov> Now we can't tell that this is actually a disabled read-only editable text field instead of a disabled text leaf node.
- # [15:09] <@surkov> so tbsaunde the answer is yes :)
- # [15:09] <@surkov> ;)
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- # [15:12] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: After reading the bug again, esp Jamie's comment #8, I agree with surkov. :)
- # [15:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hm, that's kind of annoying
- # [15:13] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it's hard to be not agree with Jamie :)
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- # [15:13] <@MarcoZ> surkov: LOL you are right! :)
- # [15:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm still trying to understand what's meant by the a control is a text leaf node
- # [15:14] <@MarcoZ> surkov: But then, that's one reason our APIs are so good. Jamie has good arguments, and the experience from an AT vendor's perspective.
- # [15:14] <@tbsaunde> I guess he means it looks the same?
- # [15:14] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Exactly.
- # [15:15] <@surkov> нуз
- # [15:15] <@surkov> yep
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- # [15:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, why do you want to tell between those two things? it seems like they're fairly similar
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- # [15:17] <@tbsaunde> off hand I'm not really sure what it would mean for a text leaf to be disabled
- # [15:18] <@tbsaunde> but it seems pretty reasonable to me for <input type=input readonly> and <p. to look the same
- # [15:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: they look differently visually
- # [15:19] <@surkov> so AT wants to know difference due to some reason
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- # [15:20] <@tbsaunde> I guess that's fairish
- # [15:20] <@surkov> not sure why disabled is there but <input readonly> should be looking the same as text node
- # [15:20] <@surkov> if we have no editable state
- # [15:20] <@tbsaunde> it seems kind of unfortunate that atk will then think its editable though
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- # [15:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: on ark layer we should remove editable bit if readonly is presented
- # [15:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, or we could add editable bit in msaa / ia2 layer
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- # [15:33] <@surkov> that probably works too, we need to ask what jsat needs
- # [15:38] <@MarcoZ> surkov: eeejay has a final say on this, but I believe we do not look at the editable state, we look for read-only to check whether we should utter something specific for that.
- # [15:39] <@surkov> so they don't care
- # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> Holy shit! I am just now looking at the MS Word in the web browser offering from Microsoft. Word is totally accessible in Firefox, using WAI-ARIA and stuff, and it works just nicely!
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- # [15:54] <@surkov> awesome
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- # [16:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: looks like jsat uses EDITABLE state in one place at EventManager.jsm:181
- # [16:20] <@tbsaunde> apparently they ignore caret moves in things that aren't editable, but only if they were also non editable previously??
- # [16:20] <@surkov> they should use editable state if they want to support contentEditable
- # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so what do you think makes more sense input readonly is editable or not?
- # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> for internal layer
- # [16:22] <@surkov> tbsaunde: keeping it closer to editable vs disabled might be nicer
- # [16:23] <@surkov> I'm curious if latest ark didn't introduce readonly state
- # [16:23] <@surkov> iirc we had some discussion with API and it was agreed that editable is rather permanent state
- # [16:24] <@surkov> tehy don't
- # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, not seeing any such state in master atk
- # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> I guess you could ask if you like
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- # [16:30] <@surkov> i don't see difference between readonly and editable controls on os x
- # [16:32] <@surkov> os x relies on editableInterface to create text accessible which has isReadonly method, so editable + readonly is not really needed for os x
- # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so how do you know you can't edit it?
- # [16:33] <@surkov> but since we fixed a bug readonly+editable already then I think atk needs a fix
- # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: by that isReadonly thing I guess
- # [16:33] <@surkov> it's from our sources, I didn't spot anything in accessibility inspector
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- # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't follow how this is an argument for states readonly and editable both being present
- # [16:36] <@tbsaunde> it seems to me if something is read only then its not editable ;)
- # [16:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: on cross platform layer we exposed readonly+editable for a while, it doesn't look we don't have a strong reason to change that now so if we get a fix on ATK then it's a smallest change to make things working
- # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> well, it doesn't make very much sense,
- # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> and I'm changing how we compute if something is editable again anyway
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- # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> surkov: tbsaunde: We'll have to see if contentEditable works in JSAT or not. Jamie's argument in that bug's comment #8 may very well be valid for JSAT, too.
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- # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I don't really buy jammie's point 2, istm "it may be editable in the future" is just as valid for <p> that could have conteditable set on it as when conteditable is set, but its disabled
- # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> so I think this is basically just a hack because wndows uses the same role for text elements and inputs
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- # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: OK, but at the end of the day, we definitely don't want those buttons to have the editable state. :)
- # [17:02] <@tbsaunde> sure
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- # [17:10] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [17:10] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [17:10] <@davidb> meeting in 15 :)
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- # [17:22] * @davidb heads to meeting room
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- # [17:29] <@davidb> surkov: we'll on in the accessibility vidyo room
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- # [17:31] <@surkov> davidb: room status occupied
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- # [17:55] <eeejay> davidb, could you tell yzen about the gaia meeting in 2 minutes in the b2g vidyo room?
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- # [17:56] <@davidb> "<eeejay> davidb, could you tell yzen about the gaia meeting in 2 minutes in the b2g vidyo room?"
- # [17:56] <eeejay> yzen, yo! in the don mills room in toronto
- # [17:56] <eeejay> yzen, i don't have anything to say in this meeting, but we should get a permanent accessibility section here
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- # [18:19] * eeejay sets mode: +o yzen
- # [18:19] <@eeejay> yzen, welcome!
- # [18:20] <@yzen> eeejay thanks :)
- # [18:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from the wind on bug 960228.
- # [18:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960228 nor, --, ---, jwei, NEW, Lists with selectable children should have ATK_ROLE_LIST_BOX
- # [18:21] <@eeejay> yzen, we should probably meet, and have a regular thing going as well. but to spare us both from another meeting today (and i am sure you overwhelmed), we could do it tomorrow?
- # [18:21] <@yzen> eeejay: sounds good, anytime works for me i guess
- # [18:22] <@eeejay> cool. i'll send an invite
- # [18:23] <@yzen> thanks
- # [18:27] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [18:38] <@firebot> jdiggs@igalia.com cancelled needinfo? on bug 960228.
- # [18:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960228 nor, --, ---, jwei, NEW, Lists with selectable children should have ATK_ROLE_LIST_BOX
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- # [19:14] <bermea> Hi all. We got a question on the forum about Firefox ESR 24 not meeting the 508 compliance. And need someone to actually give a response that'll help the user. Here's the thread https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/984004
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- # [19:49] <@davidb> i
- # [19:49] <@davidb> i
- # [19:49] <@davidb> i'll email marco on that one
- # [19:55] <@davidb> ok going afk for 2 hours
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- # [20:02] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 962167 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
- # [20:02] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from dbolter@mozilla.c om on bug 962167.
- # [20:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962167 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, 508 Compliance for Firefox ESR 24.2.0
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- # [21:44] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from marco.zehe@google mail.com on bug 962167.
- # [21:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962167 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, 508 Compliance for Firefox ESR 24.2.0
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- # [22:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from bugs@pettay.fi on bug 959257.
- # [22:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=959257 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, google's search box may not emit caret move events
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- # [22:34] <icaaq> davidb is the native datepicker accessible? and do you know of any accessible fallback?
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- # [22:36] <@davidb> icaaq: desktop native or browser native?
- # [22:36] <icaaq> davidb browser
- # [22:36] <@davidb> wow didn't know we had one
- # [22:37] <@davidb> let me shake some fuzz out of my brain
- # [22:37] <icaaq> ahh, maybe we dont, i was thinking of input="date"
- # [22:37] <@davidb> yeah don't think we implemented a picker yet
- # [22:37] <@davidb> to do calendars right (i18n) is hard
- # [22:38] * icaaq on my way home from customer event with to much beer
- # [22:38] <@davidb> hehe
- # [22:38] <@davidb> hopefully not driving
- # [22:39] <icaaq> no, by train :)
- # [22:39] <@davidb> nice
- # [22:39] <icaaq> not driving
- # [22:39] <icaaq> the tarin
- # [22:39] <icaaq> train
- # [22:40] <@davidb> :)
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- # [23:04] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from bugs@pettay.fi on bug 956032.
- # [23:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=956032 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Accessible object:text-selection-changed event missing when all selected text becomes unselected
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- # [23:10] <@firebot> bugs@pettay.fi cancelled needinfo?(bugs@pettay.fi) on bug 956032.
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- # [23:57] <cabanier> tbsaunde: ping
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- # Session Close: Wed Jan 22 00:00:00 2014
The end :)