/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-01-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 23 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  41. # [06:48] <@MarcoZ> Good morning all!
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  48. # [08:18] <icaaq> Morning MarcoZ, and congratulations on the wedding! a tad late maybe ;)
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  62. # [10:18] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963000 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  63. # [10:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963000 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Explore By Touch sometimes not working when Firefox is opened and automatically loads a w
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  69. # [11:44] <@firebot> paul.silaghi@softvision.ro requested needinfo from marco.zehe@google mail.com on bug 962007.
  70. # [11:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
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  74. # [12:16] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com cancelled needinfo?(marco.zehe@google mail.com) on bug 962007.
  75. # [12:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962007 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Trying to manipulate the Click-To-Play doorhanger no longer works with the keyboard
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  88. # [14:09] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Hi!
  89. # [14:09] <@surkov> hey, MarcoZ
  90. # [14:10] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Question: What is so difficult about fixing bug 961818? I mean conceptually, input @type="submit" or @type="button" is so much more closely related to a button element than an input @type="text", that I find it a bit hard to understand why an editable state could e applied to it in the first place.
  91. # [14:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=961818 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Every input type button or submit has a state of editable
  92. # [14:11] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it's not really hard to fix, we just didn't reach agreement with Trev about how to fix it
  93. # [14:18] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK... How did it come about in the first place? I mean which change prompted the bug?
  94. # [14:19] <@surkov> MarcoZ: current Trev's approach is partial backing out bug 733382, but it doesn't really necessary to do
  95. # [14:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733382 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, editable state bit should be presented on readonly inputs
  96. # [14:21] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I see. Phew, what a mess these old Windows APIs sometimes pose!
  97. # [14:34] <@surkov> right
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  103. # [14:45] <@MarcoZ> Heyo davidb!
  104. # [14:45] <@davidb> hi!
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  108. # [14:55] <yzen> morning:)
  109. # [14:55] <@surkov> 960228
  110. # [15:01] <@MarcoZ> Morning yzen! :)
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  131. # [17:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: doesn't the condition at HTMLFormAccessible.cpp:395 look wrong to you? it seems like it should always be false right?
  132. # [17:23] <@tbsaunde> err, only the first half should always be false I guess
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  135. # [17:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: perhaps it got out of sync with that readonly+editable bug
  136. # [17:25] <@surkov> probably it should be replaced on readonly state bit
  137. # [17:26] <@surkov> readonly+unavailable
  138. # [17:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: k, guess I'll just fix that now
  139. # [17:29] <@surkov> thx!
  140. # [17:29] <@davidb|w3cf2f> glad work is happening somewhere
  141. # [17:29] <@davidb|w3cf2f> :)
  142. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> davidb|w3cf2f: Heh!
  143. # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb|w3cf2f: lol
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  147. # [17:59] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963157 filed by jmathies@mozilla.com.
  148. # [17:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963157 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Enable soft keyboard support for the desktop support in Win8
  149. # [18:01] <@MarcoZ> surkov: bug 963157. :)
  150. # [18:01] <@surkov> I see
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  154. # [18:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: can you check please ATK part
  155. # [18:06] <@surkov> it doesn't look correct
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  160. # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: err, yeah guess that needs a ~
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  162. # [18:25] <@surkov> :)
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  164. # [18:27] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you want XOR?
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  166. # [18:30] <@eeejay> w3cwtf
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  168. # [18:30] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, guess that works
  169. # [18:31] <@surkov> ok, good
  170. # [18:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: actually isn't that wrong? if state & editable == 0 then that will set editable
  171. # [18:32] <@eeejay> surkov, it's *much* better than focus/blur
  172. # [18:34] <@firebot> bugs@pettay.fi requested needinfo from ehsan@mozilla.com on bug 959257.
  173. # [18:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=959257 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, google's search box may not emit caret move events
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  176. # [18:50] <@firebot> dveditz@mozilla.com set status-firefox-esr to wontfix on bug 881636.
  177. # [18:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881636 cri, --, mozilla27, trev.saunders, VERI FIXED, crash in mozilla::a11y::DocAccessible::UpdateTree
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  180. # [19:32] <@surkov> eeejay: agree
  181. # [19:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: in what case?
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  183. # [19:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  184. # [19:36] * eeejay sets mode: +o yzen
  185. # [19:36] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, welcome! back to the wonky uppercase nick?
  186. # [19:37] <@yzen> eeejay hi
  187. # [19:37] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Oh well, I am just now configuring the Chat in a new Thunderbird instance. Will correct that ASAP. :)
  188. # [19:37] <@eeejay> :)
  189. # [19:37] <@eeejay> yzen, hey
  190. # [19:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MarcoZ
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  192. # [19:38] <@yzen> eeejay i think there might be a regression after bug 960257
  193. # [19:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960257 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Introduce SettingCache in Utils
  194. # [19:38] <@eeejay> uh oh
  195. # [19:38] <@eeejay> yzen, why?
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  197. # [19:40] <@yzen> eeejay i think runCallback will not run when observing because it always checks for aOptions.callbackNow
  198. # [19:40] <@eeejay> yzen, good point :)
  199. # [19:40] <@yzen> should i file it ?
  200. # [19:40] <@eeejay> yzen, sure
  201. # [19:41] <@yzen> ok
  202. # [19:41] <@eeejay> runCallback should maybe take that as an arg
  203. # [19:42] <@yzen> i was thinking just checking aOptions.callbackNow only in 2 cases where we need it and keep runCallback with just if (callback) check ?
  204. # [19:43] <@MarcoZ> How stupid is that? I cannot change the nick name in the Chat configuration once I have created the account. Meh...
  205. # [19:44] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963207 filed by yzenevich@mozilla.com.
  206. # [19:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963207 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] SettingCache will not call the callback when observing the change.
  207. # [19:44] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, secretly, i like the curious casing
  208. # [19:45] <@davidb|w3cf2f> Me Too
  209. # [19:45] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, but now that you are north of 40, i could see how that looks immature
  210. # [19:45] <@MarcoZ> Curious, where exactly do you see that casing? My nick seems to be OK.
  211. # [19:45] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, capital M and Z
  212. # [19:46] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I thought I had configured this always. At least that was my intention in ChatZilla, which I use on my dev machine in Firefox.
  213. # [19:47] <@MarcoZ> so not marcoz or Marcoz, but MarcoZ.
  214. # [19:47] <@tbsaunde> surkov: consider state set where EDITABLE is false and READONLY true then state ^ EDITABLE == state | EDITABLE no?
  215. # [19:47] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, oh. interesting. some time last year you were all lowercase
  216. # [19:48] <@MarcoZ> Hm, that may be when I use Adium. But even there it was unintentional. :)
  217. # [19:48] <@tbsaunde> surkov: or am I getting my boolean algebra wrong yet again?
  218. # [19:48] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it seems to be true
  219. # [19:49] <@surkov> the statement I mean
  220. # [19:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so &= ~EDITABLE good then?
  221. # [19:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: isn't it the same as ^= EDITABLE?
  222. # [19:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: not in the case I just described?
  223. # [19:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok
  224. # [19:53] <@tbsaunde> because that's 0 ^ 1 = 1 when we want 0 & ~1 = 0
  225. # [19:59] <@davidb|w3cf2f> tbsaunde: sorry i can't make time for a canvas chat today
  226. # [20:00] <@tbsaunde> no worries, I'm happy to do useful work
  227. # [20:00] <@davidb|w3cf2f> heh
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  234. # [20:23] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: So, any ideas on how we're going to turn the screen reader on and off in a reliable fashin on FF OS?
  235. # [20:23] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, you mean a quick toggle?
  236. # [20:24] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yup. "reliable" for blind users.
  237. # [20:25] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, i was thinking that if the power menu had a bit of haptic feedback when it comes up, we could have a special gesture that is available when it shows up
  238. # [20:25] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  239. # [20:25] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yeah, a slight vibration would do it maybe, but do tablets have vibration hardware?
  240. # [20:26] <@eeejay> Probably not
  241. # [20:26] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, so it would be a bit of a leap of faith, in that case. but still relatively reliable
  242. # [20:26] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Interestingly, Android went back to simply putting two fingers on the display and keeping them there in Android 4.4.
  243. # [20:26] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@E55FB5BC.20287B6C.D111398B.IP) (Ping timeout)
  244. # [20:26] <@eeejay> o rly?
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  246. # [20:27] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, doesn't work for me here
  247. # [20:27] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yup I just set up a new Nexus 7 on Monday.
  248. # [20:27] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Have you enabled the quick toggle in Accessibility settings?
  249. # [20:27] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, when i do that, i just get the homescreen edit mode
  250. # [20:27] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, no
  251. # [20:28] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, i guess quick toggle and bootstrap are two different things
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  253. # [20:28] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, I want something that works regardless of some setting
  254. # [20:29] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(ehsan@mozilla.com ) on bug 959257.
  255. # [20:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=959257 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, google's search box may not emit caret move events
  256. # [20:29] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I agree!
  257. # [20:29] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Like I said, let's be smarter than Android.
  258. # [20:30] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, ah. their gesture is also available in the power menu only
  259. # [20:30] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, and i thought it was my own brilliant idea!
  260. # [20:30] <@eeejay> should have patented taht
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  262. # [20:31] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, curiously you can't disable it in android in the same fashion
  263. # [20:33] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, which renders that feature useless
  264. # [20:34] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, for one, it doesn't allow a blind user to start the screen reader unassisted because you need to enable the quick toggle
  265. # [20:35] <@eeejay> and second, it confuses sighted users because you could turn it on, but not off
  266. # [20:36] <@eeejay> ..and now i am trying to do it again, and it won't let me
  267. # [20:36] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yup, I remember now what was so annoying about this feature. :)
  268. # [20:36] <@MarcoZ> Thanks! :)
  269. # [20:39] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yes we definitely want to be smarter than that!
  270. # [20:40] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, but i like the holding two fingers down for a long time. better than drawing a square
  271. # [20:41] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yes me too. Drawing a square was a pain in the neck.
  272. # [20:41] <@MarcoZ> on Android.
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  276. # [21:06] <@MarcoZ> OK, good night everyone! See you tomorrow!
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  296. # [23:16] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963298 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  297. # [23:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963298 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Add states to Constants module
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  301. # [23:26] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963302 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  302. # [23:26] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 925734 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  303. # [23:26] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 925734 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  304. # [23:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963302 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Error logged when launching app from homescreen
  305. # [23:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=925734 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Remove Cmd-Left Arrow mapping on OSX
  306. # [23:27] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 963302 from eitan@monotonous.org to nobody@mozilla.org.
  307. # [23:31] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963303 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  308. # [23:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963303 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, aria-level etc shouldn't be applied to any element
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  314. # [23:49] <@eeejay> surkov, is there ever a chance in the world that we would have a state change event for OFFSCREEN?
  315. # [23:50] <@surkov> technically it should be possible, not sure what exactly question is though :)
  316. # [23:52] <@eeejay> surkov, if it is something you would consider. or if it is crazy
  317. # [23:53] <@surkov> eeejay: if change is fired on focus out then it'd be strange
  318. # [23:53] <@surkov> but otherwise why not
  319. # [23:53] <@eeejay> why would it fire on focus out?
  320. # [23:54] <@eeejay> surkov, it would mean, for every scroll event, check every accessible to see if it is still in the viewport. that is kind of crazy..
  321. # [23:55] <@surkov> eeejay: isn't change event related with focusin/focusout stuff?
  322. # [23:55] <@surkov> I don't see a point to check offscreen state before firing events
  323. # [23:56] <@eeejay> surkov, a state change event
  324. # [23:56] <@surkov> ah
  325. # [23:56] <@surkov> no, I'd say it should be fired
  326. # [23:56] <@eeejay> surkov, you think it is something that is possible to implement reasonably?
  327. # [23:57] <@surkov> I'm not sure I see how state change depends on offscreen feature
  328. # [23:57] <@surkov> usually when we get content state change then we transform it into a11y event
  329. # [23:58] <@eeejay> yeah. but i don't think there is a dom event that is fired when an element gets scrolled off the screen
  330. # [23:59] <@eeejay> in DOM-land, you would need to listen for the scroll event and calculate if the element is still visible
  331. # Session Close: Fri Jan 24 00:00:00 2014

The end :)