/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-01-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 24 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  4. # [00:02] <@tbsaunde> I can't see a fast way to do that, maybe just maybe layout can tell you when a frame changes from on screen to scrolled off, but otherwise you have to cache it and check all the time or something
  5. # [00:09] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, thats what i thought
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  21. # [02:11] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963373 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  22. # [02:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963373 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Update cursor position after a scroll
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  26. # [03:22] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 960267 from --- to FIXED.
  27. # [03:22] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 960267 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  28. # [03:22] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 960267 from --- to mozilla29.
  29. # [03:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960267 nor, --, mozilla29, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Add volume and rate speech settings.
  30. # [03:22] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 960257 from --- to FIXED.
  31. # [03:23] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 960257 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  32. # [03:23] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 960257 from --- to mozilla29.
  33. # [03:23] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 960248 from --- to FIXED.
  34. # [03:23] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 960248 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  35. # [03:23] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 960248 from --- to mozilla29.
  36. # [03:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960257 nor, --, mozilla29, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Introduce SettingCache in Utils
  37. # [03:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960248 nor, --, mozilla29, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Label-embedded range widgets don't get keyboard events from label.
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  73. # [13:09] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 963207 from --- to FIXED.
  74. # [13:09] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 963207 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  75. # [13:10] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 963207 from --- to mozilla29.
  76. # [13:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963207 nor, --, mozilla29, yzenevich, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] SettingCache will not call the callback when observing the change.
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  79. # [13:43] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Hi! Do you remember off the top of your head if we have a bug on the Thunderbird Subscribe dialog where we no longer correctly expose the XUL tree view and its children? NVDA only sees "unknown" accessibles.
  80. # [13:44] <@surkov> MarcoZ: hey, not really, I don't really track th bugs
  81. # [13:44] <@surkov> why do you need it?
  82. # [13:51] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I started using Thunderbird recently again, and I was contacted by another blind user.
  83. # [13:52] <@MarcoZ> So I was just wondering whether it's a bug in our APIs or in their XUL.
  84. # [13:52] <@MarcoZ> But I suspect it's more likely their XUL since we do have test for xul:tree items.
  85. # [13:52] <@surkov> MarcoZ: somewhere in the middle :) somebody needs to debug and investigate, a bad thing is nobody assigned to tb a11y
  86. # [13:53] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Right. I just now noticed that their code is still using NSIAccessibleProvider, so I created a patch to get rid of them.
  87. # [13:53] <@surkov> MarcoZ: that can be a problem btw
  88. # [13:54] <@surkov> it's cool you do taht
  89. # [13:54] <@MarcoZ> But the problems with those trees was from Thunderird 24.2.0, the current official release, when NSIAccessibleProvider was still there.
  90. # [13:54] <@surkov> it's our bad we forgot to change tb part
  91. # [13:54] <@surkov> I see
  92. # [13:54] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Yeah I also didn't think of it back then.
  93. # [13:55] <@surkov> personally I look at tb a11y when it's something really community wanted
  94. # [13:55] <@surkov> but now we have two more people on board so we might ask somebody else :)
  95. # [13:56] <@surkov> MarcoZ: is it something it's better if we looked at, right?
  96. # [13:59] <@MarcoZ> surkov: The tree and treeitem or treecol items simply no longer show up. I am currently building with my patch for bug 963506 to see if that fixes those problems, but otherwise am at a loss as to why this has broken so badly. The markup looks correct...
  97. # [13:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963506 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, NEW, Get rid of NSIAccessibleProvider references
  98. # [14:00] <@surkov> it should help I think
  99. # [14:04] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I believe it could be this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737101
  100. # [14:04] <@firebot> Bug 737101 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Broken accessible hierarchy in Thunderbird Message Filters dialog
  101. # [14:05] <@MarcoZ> It refers to the filter dialog, but the community member told me that the same symptom applies to both dialogs.
  102. # [14:07] <@surkov> I see
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  107. # Session Close: Fri Jan 24 14:37:31 2014
  108. #
  109. # Session Start: Fri Jan 24 14:37:31 2014
  110. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  114. # [14:41] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://is.gd/yqDl6M'
  115. # [14:41] * Set by davidb on Mon Jan 06 15:34:52
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  132. # [15:03] <@MarcoZ> The Windows build process is more a crashing pile of shit than anything else. Moreover, instead of just exiting, it runs into an endless loop where it crashes again and again.
  133. # [15:04] <@davidb> debug build?
  134. # [15:04] <@MarcoZ> No.
  135. # [15:04] <@davidb> oh right
  136. # [15:04] <@davidb> is it doing PGO
  137. # [15:06] <@MarcoZ> It is doing what a regular release build should be doing. It's a simple build without any fancy mozconfig options.
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  139. # [15:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: The culprit apparently is Python.
  140. # [15:08] <@MarcoZ> I closed the command prompt and had a cillion Python.exe processes still hanging in Task manager.
  141. # [15:08] <@davidb> woah
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  144. # [15:09] <yzen> morning davidb MarcoZ surkov tbsaunde
  145. # [15:10] <@surkov> morning
  146. # [15:10] <yzen> davidb i was curious about the marketplace and accessibility you brought up yesterday
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  148. # [15:11] <@davidb> hi hi hi
  149. # [15:11] <@davidb> yzen: yep
  150. # [15:11] <yzen> were you thinking of an app actually being able to specify the a11y when its published ?
  151. # [15:11] <@davidb> yeah
  152. # [15:11] <@davidb> so that users could search and filter for a11y
  153. # [15:12] <@davidb> also, asking might put it in mind
  154. # [15:12] <@davidb> (of app dev)
  155. # [15:12] <yzen> davidb that would be awesome , is it available from other marketplaces ?
  156. # [15:12] <yzen> MarcoZ ^
  157. # [15:12] <@davidb> MarcoZ and I discussed this a while back - probably his idea
  158. # [15:13] <@MarcoZ> davidb: yzen: Microsoft has such a flag in their Windows 8 App store, and the flag is pretty useless. Some developers say yes but aren't accessible, others say no but they are. Many people simply don't know what the term accessible means.
  159. # [15:15] <@MarcoZ> There are some website a11y checkers out there, but I don't know if this can be applied to mobile FF OS apps. Some techniques may, but apps are so complex nowadays, and I don't know if these tools were actually able to keep pace.
  160. # [15:16] <@davidb> that's sad
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  171. # [15:52] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://is.gd/yqDl6M'
  172. # [15:52] * Set by davidb on Mon Jan 06 15:34:52
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  187. # [16:52] <@tbsaunde> jwei: did you look at that treegrid thing yet?
  188. # [16:53] <jwei> tbsaunde: Yeah. As far as I can tell from the spec, it seems to be a legitimate use case. http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-level
  189. # [16:55] <jwei> tbsaunde: In addition, with regards to the XULTreeGrids, the TreeGrid and TreeGridRow use the implementation of RelationByType provided by XULTreeAccessible and XULTreeItemAccessibleBase, respectively.
  190. # [16:57] <@tbsaunde> jwei: oh, FML
  191. # [16:59] <jwei> tbsaunde: Also, is aria-level commonly used on rows in ARIA grids? I couldn't find any examples, but it would make this approach (overriding RelationByType for the grid rows) significantly more complicated.
  192. # [17:00] <@tbsaunde> jwei: honestly I not sure what to do now
  193. # [17:00] <@tbsaunde> give me some time to think maybe?
  194. # [17:00] <jwei> tbsaunde: Sure, no problem.
  195. # [17:01] <@davidb> surkov: run!
  196. # [17:01] <@davidb> :)
  197. # [17:01] <@surkov> where?
  198. # [17:01] <@davidb> away from tbsaunde
  199. # [17:02] * @tbsaunde is very confused
  200. # [17:03] <@tbsaunde> I'd love the spec to be sane here, but 1 that might not be something we can break, and two even if we could getting spec changed sounds unpleasent
  201. # [17:04] <@surkov> I hope I won't be punished publically :)
  202. # [17:04] <@surkov> but I'm not really guilty
  203. # [17:04] <@surkov> either way
  204. # [17:05] <@davidb> phew!
  205. # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> yeah, don't think there's anything here that's really your fault
  206. # [17:05] <@surkov> phew! :)
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  210. # [17:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: If you see bwinton, I have a really small review request for him. :) Bug 963506.
  211. # [17:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963506 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, NEW, Get rid of NSIAccessibleProvider references
  212. # [17:17] <@davidb> oh cool
  213. # [17:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb: That was also what I was trying to build earlier. I thought I had given this VM 4 GB of memory, but it still barfs.
  214. # [17:21] <@MarcoZ> (Thunderbird)
  215. # [17:21] * @davidb nods
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  218. # [17:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Wow, bwinton just r+'d.
  219. # [17:46] <@tbsaunde> jwei: I'm starting to think a modified version of your previous patch is the best we can do given this cray world
  220. # [17:49] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963607 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  221. # [17:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963607 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, add some consts, make caches mutable members
  222. # [17:49] <jwei> tbsaunde: Hmm, okay. What modifications would you suggest?
  223. # [17:53] <@tbsaunde> jwei: probably best I comment in bug
  224. # [17:53] <jwei> tbsaunde: Alright.
  225. # [17:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 963607 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
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  232. # [18:45] <@eeejay> yzen, you will be at that meeting?
  233. # [18:48] <@davidb> eeejay: he's probably lunching
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  236. # [18:59] <yzen> eeejay yes
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  247. # [19:59] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org cancelled needinfo?(jamie@nvaccess.or g) on bug 949518.
  248. # [19:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=949518 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, No ValueChangedEvent fired when changing the number in an input type="number" with the arrow keys
  249. # [20:03] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess those patches will make more sense if I do the second review first?
  250. # [20:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: probably yes, they are in stack
  251. # [20:05] <@surkov> I didn't finish top thing yet but actually they are supposed to be self-sufficient
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  256. # [20:32] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 963715 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  257. # [20:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=963715 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] [Meta] Proactive output
  258. # [20:36] <@eeejay> yzen, hey. a friendly reminder of bug 960255, it is from earlier so may have slipped through the cracks
  259. # [20:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960255 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Adjusting a range <input> does not dispatch a change event
  260. # [20:36] <yzen> eeejay thanks, i will deal with it shortly )
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  265. # [21:12] <yzen> eeejay hi
  266. # [21:13] <@eeejay> yzen, yo
  267. # [21:13] <yzen> eeejay would it be ok to pass your response to the marketplace list ?
  268. # [21:13] <@eeejay> yzen, sure. thanks for being on that list
  269. # [21:13] <yzen> thanks
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  277. # [22:16] <@tbsaunde> jwei: so how did you decide which bits of IsConceptualParent to remove?
  278. # [22:19] <jwei> tbsaunde: It turned out that in the two cases that IsConceptualParent is invoked, I had added calls to ShouldReportRelations anyway, and ShouldReportRelations is a subset of the functionality (returns true if it's a row in a treegrid or an item in a list or tree).
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  280. # [22:21] <@tbsaunde> jwei: so, its because you checked spec and in all other cases you can just use the tree accept for aria-owns?
  281. # [22:21] <@tbsaunde> looking again that doesn't seem to crazy
  282. # [22:22] <jwei> tbsaunde: Yeah. We determined that the structures we want to report the relations for were trees and lists, and we make sure we always report exceptions (aria-owns, aria-level).
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The end :)