/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-03-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Mar 12 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  36. # [06:56] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 982495 filed by cam@mcc.id.au.
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  48. # [11:13] <SteveF> html5accessibility.com/ updated (windows browsers only for now) Summary - @Firefox still rocks its #HTML5 ASS! (accessibility support score)
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  58. # [13:57] <@firebot> yzenevich@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 982326 from nobody@mozilla.org to yzenevich@mozilla.com.
  59. # [13:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982326 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, Intermittent jsat/test_touch_adapter.html | Test timed out | test_link.html | Test timed out (follow
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  62. # [13:58] <@davidb> heyo
  63. # [13:59] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  64. # [14:08] <SteveF> davidb: http://blog.paciellogroup.com/2014/03/html5accessibility-com-updated/
  65. # [14:08] <@davidb> SteveF: woot!
  66. # [14:09] <@davidb> !seen MarcoZ
  67. # [14:09] <@firebot> marcoz was last seen 21 hours, 30 minutes and 50 seconds ago, saying '"Wake me up when September ends"... ;)' in #accessibility.
  68. # [14:09] <@davidb> oh dear
  69. # [14:09] <@davidb> Marco is hibernating!
  70. # [14:10] <@firebot> ioana.budnar@softvision.ro requested in-testsuite from the wind on bug 926812.
  71. # [14:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926812 nor, --, mozilla28, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, State change event not fired when both disabled and aria-disabled are toggled on button
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  81. # [14:30] <@MarcoZ> Good day all!
  82. # [14:36] <@davidb> MarcoZ: hi!
  83. # [14:51] <@yzen> MarcoZ hi
  84. # [14:59] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  85. # [15:33] <@davidb> MarcoZ: can i forward your quote to dbaron?
  86. # [15:35] * Joins: mconley (mconley@moz-D640D16C.cable.teksavvy.com)
  87. # [15:36] <mconley> hey, #accessibility - congrats on the 88.5/100! (http://www.html5accessibility.com/)
  88. # [15:36] <mconley> keep up the great work!
  89. # [15:36] <mconley> (for those who are wondering, that's nearly twice the score of Webkit / Blink based browsers)
  90. # [15:37] <@davidb> mconley: thanks!
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  96. # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: By all means!
  97. # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> mconley: Thank you so much!
  98. # [15:56] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 982495 from nobody@mozilla.org to cam@mcc.id.au.
  99. # [15:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982495 nor, --, ---, cam, NEW, missing "break" in test_coalescence.html
  100. # [16:03] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  101. # [16:04] <@MarcoZ> Wow, that tweet about Firefox doing so great on HTML5 a11y is getting more retweets than most of my own blog post tweets. ;)
  102. # [16:06] <@davidb> I saw the BE retweeted it
  103. # [16:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah, me too! Went awe!
  104. # [16:07] <@MarcoZ> +I
  105. # [16:26] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  106. # [16:46] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 982495.
  107. # [16:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982495 nor, --, ---, cam, NEW, missing "break" in test_coalescence.html
  108. # [16:49] <SteveF> MarcoZ; you and the moz acc team deserve all the retweets you get :-)
  109. # [16:50] <@davidb> <3
  110. # [16:51] <SteveF> davidb: btw we haven't forgotten about the landmark nav keyboard stuff...
  111. # [16:51] <@davidb> lol
  112. # [16:51] <@davidb> i wish we had that
  113. # [16:51] * @davidb closes one eye, looks at todo list
  114. # [16:52] <@davidb> i'm hungry! :)
  115. # [16:52] <SteveF> matthew is beavering away at it, and we have internal signoff on resources to do it
  116. # [16:53] <@davidb> nice
  117. # [16:54] <@davidb> SteveF: is matthew on bug 670928?
  118. # [16:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928 enh, --, ---, eitan, REOP, HTML5 element and WAI-ARIA landmark roles easily navigable in Firefox
  119. # [16:55] <SteveF> davidb: question does it all have to be written in C++?
  120. # [16:55] <@davidb> yeah i think so
  121. # [16:55] <@davidb> yzen: when are you soccering?
  122. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> davidb: food sgtm
  123. # [16:56] <@yzen> at 1pm
  124. # [16:56] <@davidb> surkov: lunch ideas?
  125. # [16:56] <@surkov> davidb: same?
  126. # [16:57] <SteveF> davidb: ok thanks
  127. # [16:57] <@davidb> surkov: burrito? cc tbsaunde yzen jwei
  128. # [16:57] <@surkov> :)
  129. # [16:57] <@yzen> ill join at the table
  130. # [16:57] * @davidb puts boots on
  131. # [16:57] <@davidb> ok
  132. # [16:57] <jwei> davidb: Sure.
  133. # [16:57] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ack
  134. # [16:58] <@davidb> alons y
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  138. # [17:16] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Thanks for putting so much effort into this list! Must be quite tedeous work to gather all that info from the various browsers!
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  140. # [17:17] <SteveF> MarcoZ: yeah it can be arduous, but it is useful as it makes me file bugs!
  141. # [17:24] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Yup, please also feel free to file bugs against Firefox about issues you find like the one with the placeholder.
  142. # [17:25] <@MarcoZ> This topic is a particularly difficult one, though, since there doesn't seem to be agreement on how to interpret the spec.
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  153. # [18:02] <@tbsaunde> man bug 407956 is the bug that keeps giving
  154. # [18:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=407956 nor, --, mozilla22, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, Remove nsISupportsArray usage from nsITreeView
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  163. # [18:40] <jwei> surkov: It seems that the differences between the identifier and number types are even less clear cut than I originally thought - compare http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#id.3.2.3.3 (<mi>) with http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter3.html#id.3.2.4.3 (<mn>).
  164. # [18:41] <@surkov> I see, so they have semantic meaning
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  166. # [18:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: is it thunderbird problems?
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  168. # [18:45] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have an update about AppendElement(&&)?
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  171. # [19:07] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  172. # [19:08] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  173. # [19:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: khuey is fixing it bug 982212 I think
  174. # [19:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982212 nor, --, ---, khuey, NEW, r-value references for nsTArray
  175. # [19:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: if you want to add copy ctor to TextRange and file bug to remove it that's fine by me
  176. # [19:11] <@tbsaunde> its not really bad design just shouldn't be needed
  177. # [19:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: copy ctor is worse than refptr imp
  178. # [19:11] <@surkov> imo
  179. # [19:12] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why?
  180. # [19:12] <@surkov> because copy takes more resources than ref counting
  181. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: only if you do lots of coppies and its temporary thing
  182. # [19:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: the object as you know has bunch of refptr, so copying those members have to be slower than daling with one refptr I don't miss anything
  183. # [19:16] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  184. # [19:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure, but if you never copy do a copy then there's no refptrs
  185. # [19:17] <@tbsaunde> so you win in case of say enclosing range
  186. # [19:18] <@surkov> I loose in development time :) that's what I wanted to avoid
  187. # [19:19] <@surkov> loose -> lose
  188. # [19:19] <@tbsaunde> by doing what?
  189. # [19:19] <@surkov> UIA impl
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  192. # [19:30] <@yzen> eeejay any time
  193. # [19:31] <@eeejay> yzen, awesome. firing up skype
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  199. # [19:56] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) on bug 743568.
  200. # [19:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743568 nor, --, ---, jwei, NEW, Thunderbird message list tree emitting incorrect focus signals after message deleted
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  207. # [20:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: any plans to fix all your unsigned vs sign warnings?
  208. # [20:16] <@surkov> tbsaunde: no nearest plans
  209. # [20:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: getting annoyed?
  210. # [20:26] <@firebot> jwei@mozilla.com granted in-testsuite on bug 743568.
  211. # [20:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743568 nor, --, ---, jwei, NEW, Thunderbird message list tree emitting incorrect focus signals after message deleted
  212. # [20:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: some ;)
  213. # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: esp since with unified builds you see them even if you don't change HyperTextAccessible.cpp
  214. # [20:29] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so am I :) not too exited to fix it? ;)
  215. # [20:29] <@surkov> right
  216. # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm not really sure how they should be fixed
  217. # [20:30] <@surkov> yep it's a good question, that's part of why I didn't do that yet
  218. # Session Close: Wed Mar 12 20:33:17 2014
  219. #
  220. # Session Start: Wed Mar 12 20:33:17 2014
  221. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  222. # [20:33] * Disconnected
  223. # [20:34] * Attempting to rejoin channel #accessibility
  224. # [20:34] * Rejoined channel #accessibility
  225. # [20:34] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://is.gd/yqDl6M'
  226. # [20:34] * Set by davidb on Mon Jan 06 15:34:52
  227. # [20:34] <@surkov> so am I, just not quite sure if it's worth of spending time
  228. # [20:43] * Joins: Mic (Mic@moz-8004DC83.superkabel.de)
  229. # [20:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: friendly ping to make sure patch of bug 844023 is on radar
  230. # [20:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=844023 nor, --, ---, jwei, NEW, group info might not be properly updated when flat trees mutate
  231. # [20:50] * Joins: Gijs (gijs@moz-E5F83CA.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl)
  232. # [20:56] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from marco.zehe@google mail.com on bug 775536.
  233. # [20:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=775536 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, If focus is set to a textarea by JS, NVDA often doesn't get the text interface correctly.
  234. # [20:56] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  235. # [20:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah I know :(
  236. # [20:59] <@surkov> ok, cool
  237. # [21:14] <@davidb> clown: has ARIA 1.1 started?
  238. # [21:15] <@davidb> I'm a bit worried that it'll be hard to get our voice in.
  239. # [21:18] <clown> davidb, yes it has.
  240. # [21:19] <clown> I've been bringing summaries of the Mon telecons to the UAIG meetings.
  241. # [21:19] <@davidb> ok i don't recall specifics last week
  242. # [21:19] <clown> I think it was the new table role, last week.
  243. # [21:20] <clown> the week before was the new name for the presentation role.
  244. # [21:20] * clown looks up minutes.
  245. # [21:21] <clown> davidb, from last week: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-aapi-minutes.html#item03
  246. # [21:21] <@davidb> clown: rings a bell. did you capture my concern about how silly it would be to map table to something not table, while grid maps to table?
  247. # [21:22] <@davidb> oh i see it is sort of there
  248. # [21:22] <clown> davidb, you were the scribe...
  249. # [21:22] <@davidb> lol
  250. # [21:22] <@davidb> clown: will all new roles for things like ePub and svg bubble up to the ARIA core document?
  251. # [21:22] <@davidb> are we going to see a role explosion?
  252. # [21:23] <clown> we might. You were at the face-to-face where we culled a bunch of issues/actions, right?
  253. # [21:23] <clown> A lot of those issues/actions were moved to 1.1.
  254. # [21:24] <@davidb> yes but some things are not clear to me (clearly)
  255. # [21:24] <clown> I know that jcraig wants explicit roles for things like <div>, and also for some of the new html inputs like datepicker and colourpicker.
  256. # [21:24] <clown> so, there will be some role explosion...
  257. # [21:25] <@davidb> my general reaction to this is to push more implementation to the AT side
  258. # [21:25] <@davidb> so we would continue to expose the role string via obj attr
  259. # [21:25] <clown> but, hey, we spent almost the entire time on last Mon's call discussion the addtion of a "role description" property. Things sometimes move slowly in that group.
  260. # [21:25] <@davidb> sometimes?
  261. # [21:25] <@davidb> it used to be excruciating
  262. # [21:25] <clown> :-=D
  263. # [21:26] <clown> so, why worry?
  264. # [21:26] <clown> or, if you have worries, come to the meeting, or send email to the appropriate issue/action.
  265. # [21:26] * clown looks up 1.1 issues/actions.
  266. # [21:26] <@davidb> because I worry that I, we, Mozilla, etc might let things get out of hand
  267. # [21:26] <@davidb> yeah ideas are cooking
  268. # [21:27] <@davidb> I would like to see some kind of extensibility (I think)
  269. # [21:27] <clown> here they all are: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/17
  270. # [21:27] <@davidb> not sure how to put it... less enums more traits
  271. # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I think I sort of agree with dbaron it shouldn't be its own spec in the first place
  272. # [21:28] <@davidb> tbsaunde: where did he say this
  273. # [21:28] <clown> well, unless the AAPIs invent new roles, they isn't anyplace to map a new aria role to except the "object property" route.
  274. # [21:28] <@davidb> tbsaunde: on the last call thread?
  275. # [21:28] <@tbsaunde> davidb: in the w3c recommonendation thread
  276. # [21:28] <@davidb> ok
  277. # [21:28] <@davidb> clown: true
  278. # [21:29] <clown> OTOH, joanie has said, she is prepared to recommend new ATK/AT-SPI roles where she is convinced that would be useful.
  279. # [21:29] <@davidb> good caveat
  280. # [21:29] <clown> and since she is one of the drivers behind ATK, it will happen there fairly quickly.
  281. # [21:30] <clown> similar things apply to new states and properties.
  282. # [21:30] <clown> where "things" == "considerations".
  283. # [21:30] <@davidb> I want to make sure we all do the right thing "for the web" and for "web accessibility" that's all. It isn't clear to me.
  284. # [21:31] <clown> I think we all want that. As well as making thing easier for webapp developers.
  285. # [21:31] <@tbsaunde> sounds massively over engineered at first glance, but hearing that from me shouldn't be suprising ;)
  286. # [21:32] <@davidb> tbsaunde: the web?
  287. # [21:32] <@davidb> clown: yeah I know, but we won't necessarily agree
  288. # [21:32] <@davidb> you and I usually do
  289. # [21:32] <clown> hah!
  290. # [21:32] <clown> there, I just disagreed. :-)
  291. # [21:33] <@davidb> clown: anyways... wanted to plant a seed and to think on it more
  292. # [21:33] <@davidb> (not for the first time I know)
  293. # [21:34] * @davidb has to catch an express bus
  294. # [21:34] <clown> okay. you might consider coming to the Mon call and expressing these considerations.
  295. # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I meant the aria stuff clown mentioned role description properties and stuff
  296. # [21:34] <@davidb> clown: for sure. sigh.
  297. # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> and the stuff for color / date picker
  298. # [21:35] <@davidb> fight!
  299. # [21:35] <@davidb> :)
  300. # [21:35] <@davidb> ok catch y'all later
  301. # [21:35] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  302. # [21:35] <clown> nah. I'll just suggest that tbsaunde join the meetings...
  303. # [21:39] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  304. # [21:49] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
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  309. # [22:05] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 982842 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  310. # [22:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=982842 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, implement very basic support of OOp accessible documents
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  328. # [23:54] <@firebot> wmccloskey@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 972501 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  329. # [23:55] <@firebot> wmccloskey@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 972501 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  330. # [23:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=972501 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, [e10s] In Gmail and etherpad editor, ⌘B shortcut opens Bookmarks sidebar instead of bolding text
  331. # Session Close: Thu Mar 13 00:00:00 2014

The end :)