/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-03-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Mar 27 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  44. # [04:58] <@firebot> tomoko@u-aizu.ac.jp changed the Component on bug 988701 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
  45. # [04:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=988701 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Firefox-24.3esr for OS X cannot browse Google .
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  56. # [07:53] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Component on bug 988701 from Disability Access to Search.
  57. # [07:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=988701 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Firefox-24.3esr for OS X cannot browse Google .
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  109. # [14:20] <@yzen> mornign MarcoZ, tbsaunde
  110. # [14:25] <@MarcoZ> Morning yzen! :)
  111. # [14:25] <@yzen> MarcoZ so it looks like it works now for eeejay on fxos and desktop, i still yet to try on android
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  114. # [14:29] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Cool! And you were almost there with bug 969553, too!
  115. # [14:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=969553 nor, --, 1.5 S1 (9may), yzenevich, REOP, Update shared tabs styling and markup to be screen reader accessible.
  116. # [14:30] <@MarcoZ> Good morning davidb!
  117. # [14:30] <@yzen> MarcoZ well yes, i still want to push to try but it's up for a re-review
  118. # [14:30] <@davidb> hey hi hi
  119. # [14:30] <@davidb> heyo
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  121. # [14:53] <@MarcoZ> If you're interested: http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/03/27/what-is-wai-aria-what-does-it-do-for-me-and-what-not/
  122. # [15:03] <@davidb> tbsaunde: have you looked at roc's rr?
  123. # [15:03] <@davidb> http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/03/introducing-rr.html
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  128. # [15:49] <icaaq> MarcoZ Hi! a small question for you my friend :)
  129. # [15:49] <icaaq> MarcoZ the long title-attributes on most of the links on MDN, like or dislike?
  130. # [15:51] <icaaq> MarcoZ for example the window-link here https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Reference/API#content
  131. # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Oh my goodness! I don't usually tab through pages, and screen readers don't usually read the title of a link when the normal text is available, so I hadn't even noticed these!
  132. # [15:56] <@MarcoZ> NVDA only read it to me as additional info after it read the link text. So it can be skipped. But Jesus, does this even look useful when you mouse over it?
  133. # [15:56] <icaaq> MarcoZ no
  134. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Ping scheppy on it, perhaps this wasn't even intentional.
  135. # [15:57] <icaaq> MarcoZ will do :) thanks
  136. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I'm always for avoiding title attributes whenever possible, unless they really add value. And this is ... umm... verbose, but nothing else. :)
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  140. # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I've been meaning to
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  142. # [16:23] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 988896 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  143. # [16:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=988896 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make it harder to detect that we're simulating mouse clicks or other means when performing a doActio
  144. # [16:26] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Resolution on bug 979298 from --- to FIXED.
  145. # [16:26] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 979298 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  146. # [16:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=979298 maj, --, ---, marco.zehe, RESO FIXED, Screen reader detection heuristics: Privacy review
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  148. # [16:30] <SteveF> MarcoZ: great post on ARIA! little dispaointed you didn't point to Using ARIA in HTML and in particular Rules of ARIA http://rawgithub.com/w3c/aria-in-html/master/index.html#notes-on-aria-use-in-html ;-)
  149. # [16:31] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Thanks! Ah, I knew there was one additional resource I wanted to add! I can still add it. Any preferred spot?
  150. # [16:32] <SteveF> wherever you think best the URL i provided takes you to rules of ARIA which re-inforce your points
  151. # [16:40] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Am editing it now. I will put the link right before the closing remarks heading.
  152. # [16:41] <SteveF> cool
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  154. # [16:45] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Done, it's in there twice now actually, once with the link to the rules section, once as a general link.
  155. # [16:45] <SteveF> MarcoZ - nice
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  157. # [16:55] <@yzen> eeejay ping
  158. # [16:55] <@yzen> MarcoZ have you ever tried cyanogen mode on android ?
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  161. # [16:58] <@eeejay> yzen, hey
  162. # [17:00] <@yzen> eeejay do you ever use git push-to-try?
  163. # [17:00] <@eeejay> yzen, yeah. i typically use git-push-to-tryserver
  164. # [17:00] <@eeejay> i mean trychooser
  165. # [17:00] <@eeejay> it does the flags for you
  166. # [17:01] <@eeejay> yzen, i do it with a synced mozilla-central hg repo
  167. # [17:01] <@yzen> ok so your eeejay what do you use is the path to the repo ?
  168. # [17:01] <@yzen> urgh
  169. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> yzen: No I haven't. Well not at least the one you could install from the Play Store. I used to put CyanogenMod on devices that didn't have an accessible Android on them before, such as a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 from 2011.
  170. # [17:01] <@yzen> ok so your hg path is the path to the repo ?
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  172. # [17:02] <@eeejay> yzen, in git, i make a branch with the patches i want to test
  173. # [17:02] <@eeejay> then i do:
  174. # [17:02] <@eeejay> git push-to-trychooser ../mercurial/central
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  176. # [17:02] <@yzen> eeejay i m trying to figure out how to do it with gaia
  177. # [17:02] <@yzen> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/TBPL#Running_TBPL_Try_jobs_against_Gaia_builds
  178. # [17:03] <@yzen> eeejay i tried my gaia branch against /integration/gaia-central
  179. # [17:03] <@yzen> eeejay but it just stalls and i cant even interrupt it with keyboard
  180. # [17:05] <@eeejay> hm :(
  181. # [17:05] <@yzen> so this
  182. # [17:05] <@yzen> git push-to-try ../../hg/gaia-central -b o -p linux64_gecko,linux32_gecko,macosx64_gecko -u all -t none
  183. # [17:05] <@yzen> from my branch
  184. # [17:06] <@yzen> there's another way i guess with m-c where you modify b2g/config/gaia.json with the branch and remote but i m not sure i m doing it correctly
  185. # [17:06] <@yzen> eeejay ^
  186. # [17:08] <@yzen> eeejay would you say this looks correct to you ?
  187. # [17:08] <@yzen> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=0562128877c9
  188. # [17:09] <@eeejay> yzen, interesting, your guess is as good as mine. i guess you could review the logs later and see
  189. # [17:10] <slee> eeejay: hi
  190. # [17:10] <slee> i'm thinking of gettting a FFx OS phone and you mention S4/5 a while back
  191. # [17:10] <@eeejay> slee, yo
  192. # [17:10] <@eeejay> slee, correct
  193. # [17:10] <@yzen> eeejay alright thanks
  194. # [17:10] <@eeejay> slee, personally, i actually develop on a zte open
  195. # [17:11] <slee> any specific reason those and not a cheaper? Are you dog fooding?
  196. # [17:11] <@eeejay> slee, no. you could do a zte open
  197. # [17:11] <slee> AH. I like the look of that one
  198. # [17:11] <@eeejay> it is about $80
  199. # [17:11] <slee> yes price helps :)
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  202. # [17:12] <slee> eeejay: thnxs
  203. # [17:16] <@yzen> eeejay woohoo it passed and the logs show that it actually pulled my branch :)
  204. # [17:17] <@eeejay> yzen, neat :)
  205. # [17:17] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Umm, but that's not an automatic checkin, or is it?
  206. # [17:17] <@yzen> MarcoZ do you mean of the pull request ?
  207. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yup. :)
  208. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Anyway: Congratulations!
  209. # [17:18] <@yzen> MarcoZ well i asked for re-review of my additional commit for posterity
  210. # [17:18] <@yzen> :)
  211. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yeah saw that. Good thing.
  212. # [17:18] <@eeejay> yzen, nit - when you name branches as bug numbers alone, it looks a bit like the abreviated sha1s
  213. # [17:19] <@yzen> eeejay ill start using |Bug #number| :)
  214. # [17:19] <@eeejay> yzen, i typically do bug-12345
  215. # [17:19] <@yzen> will do
  216. # [17:19] <@eeejay> cool :)
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  218. # [17:38] <slee> yzen: - was that a 1st commit?
  219. # [17:38] <@yzen> slee no but a pretty big one :)
  220. # [17:39] <slee> ah. Still, congrats anyway :)
  221. # [17:39] <@yzen> thanks :)
  222. # [17:40] <slee> yzen: mind you youve been there ages now so should have millions by now! hehe
  223. # [17:40] <@yzen> hah
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  225. # [17:59] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-BC6E0179.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: See you tomorrow!)
  226. # [18:06] <@eeejay> yzen, you landed it?
  227. # [18:07] <@yzen> eeejay well i asked for re-review
  228. # [18:07] <@yzen> plus the gaia tree is closedm no ?
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  233. # [18:29] <jwei> surkov: ping
  234. # [18:29] <@surkov> jwei: pong
  235. # [18:29] <jwei> surkov: Just making sure we actually want this - the event propagation should also handle aria-labelledby, right?
  236. # [18:30] <@surkov> jwei: perhaps next time, it very complicates the code and we don't really have a good use case
  237. # [18:30] <@surkov> in the wild I mean
  238. # [18:30] <jwei> surkov: Oh, okay. So just the subtree name rules + aria-label?
  239. # [18:30] <@surkov> jwei: not really ara-label but Name()
  240. # [18:31] <@surkov> jwei: it'd be good to have smart Name() which doesn't calculate name but says who name is calculated
  241. # [18:32] <@surkov> who -> how
  242. # [18:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well at that point you've almost calculated the name anyway
  243. # [18:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it might be not 100% precise
  244. # [18:33] <@surkov> but also we would win if we saved some strings copies
  245. # [18:34] <@tbsaunde> surkov: at the cost of a lot of dupplication
  246. # [18:38] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  247. # [18:39] <@surkov> perhaps
  248. # [18:43] <@davidb> should we prank anyone on april 1?
  249. # [18:43] * Joins: kushagra (kushagra@C2E5A5F.579EB575.520CDC98.IP)
  250. # [18:44] <@davidb> maybe we should submit a proposal for a new aria attribute
  251. # [18:44] <@davidb> aria-partlyhidden
  252. # [18:45] <@davidb> aria-omg
  253. # [18:45] <@davidb> aria-longdesc
  254. # [18:46] <jwei> surkov: I guess a better question than the one I asked is what the scope of this event propagation should be. Am I just adding name change events where necessary, ignoring parents which have aria-label, aria-labelledby, or explicit <label for='parent'>? And leaving proper name change event firing on the elements who have the label for relationship or are a <label> until later?
  255. # [18:46] <jwei> And whatever edge cases I've missed for that matter, heh.
  256. # [18:49] <@tbsaunde> jwei: I'd probably say just use the tree, and don't worry about false positives or negatives, people have had to deal with false negatives forever, and we can't really prevent false positives so they need to handle those anyway
  257. # [18:55] <jwei> tbsaunde: Okay. It's just that surkov explicitly mentioned the aria-label case not having a name change event fired in a comment, so I was wondering if we should cover all the false positive cases, and false negatives, for that matter.
  258. # [18:57] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
  259. # [18:59] <@davidb> what a pickle
  260. # [18:59] <@surkov> jwei: maybe we should restrict the logic to list items only and then crawl in parent chain chcking how Name() was calcualted
  261. # [19:02] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  262. # [19:05] <jwei> surkov: Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean determining if the name of a given parent that has eNameFromSubtreeRule is obtained from aria-label/aria-labelledby, from a native attribute, from a label element, from its children, or whatever else?
  263. # [19:16] <@surkov> jwei: I suggested to set eHasNameDependentParent flag for children of list items only and then if we hit tree/text change under list item then we crawl the hierarchy to top checking Name()
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  269. # [19:25] <jwei> surkov: Okay. So basically only handle the reported case for now?
  270. # [19:25] <@surkov> jwei: yeah, that would be the safest thing we can do
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  274. # [20:01] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  275. # [20:02] <@firebot> mhoye@mozilla.com requested needinfo from trev.saunders@gma il.com on bug 738221.
  276. # [20:02] <@firebot> mhoye@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 738221 from REOPENED to NEW.
  277. # [20:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738221 nor, --, mozilla14, nobody, NEW, get rid nsIAccessibilityService
  278. # [20:02] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  279. # [20:12] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) on bug 738221.
  280. # [20:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738221 nor, --, mozilla14, nobody, NEW, get rid nsIAccessibilityService
  281. # [20:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: arg can't you configer your mail client to quote properly?
  282. # [20:27] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  283. # [20:30] <Gijs> do we have existing CSS media queries for high contrast mode?
  284. # [20:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not sure
  285. # [20:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what's wrong with it?
  286. # [20:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: doesn't add > infront of stuff other people said like every other mail client known to man accept gnus
  287. # [20:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: did it happen before?
  288. # [20:40] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  289. # [20:41] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  290. # [20:42] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  291. # [20:44] <@tbsaunde> surkov: huh?
  292. # [20:45] <@surkov> tbsaunde: is it the first time when something wrong with > stuff?
  293. # [20:45] <@tbsaunde> surkov: no, always been that way iirc
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  295. # [20:47] <@davidb> there are definitely a few email clients that much things up and in different ways
  296. # [20:47] <@davidb> much/muck
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  301. # [21:11] <jwei> tbsaunde: Hmm. I don't suppose you remember why we settled on flagging the AccGroupInfo recursively when the bug was first worked on? I agree that it doesn't seem necessary, but then why did I write it that way?
  302. # [21:13] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  303. # [21:16] <@tbsaunde> jwei: iirc you seemed to think there was a case where it was needed
  304. # [21:16] <@tbsaunde> I don't really care if its expensive someone will file a bug and we'll do something about it if you take it out and its broken someone will file a bug and we'll fix that too
  305. # [21:17] <jwei> tbsaunde: Okay.
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The end :)