/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-04-10 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  61. # [11:21] <@MarcoZ> Good day all!
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  107. # [14:59] <@davidb> heyo!
  108. # [14:59] <@davidb> MarcoZ: hope you had a nice trip
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  117. # [15:18] <icaaq> MarcoZ: first to bad we couldn't meet when you were in stockholm :-(
  118. # [15:21] <icaaq> MarcoZ: second If I'm navigating thru a list of links in a <ul> is there a way to jump skip to the end of the list with a screenreader. I have never done it but it's possible right?
  119. # [15:22] <icaaq> MarcoZ right now I'm trying in VO
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  127. # [15:54] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  128. # [15:55] <@yzen> MarcoZ hi
  129. # [15:56] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Oh yes it was fantastic! Very good feedback on my presentation, and a lot of good talks, like from Bruce Lawson from Opera and Karl Groves from TPG.
  130. # [15:56] <@davidb> cool - i've been wanting to meet them
  131. # [15:56] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: JAWS and NVDA have commands to jump out of a current list, table etc. Don't think VO has that, though.
  132. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: What happens is the virtual cursor moves to the end of that "container".
  133. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> Hi yzen! I liked your latest patch to bug 981015! :)
  134. # [15:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981015 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Improve TouchAdapter.
  135. # [15:57] <icaaq> MarcoZ ahh just as I thought then
  136. # [15:58] <@yzen> MarcoZ great, i have now 2 versions based on eeejay's feedback. they differ slightly on how the android gestures are handled and neither are much too my liking :(
  137. # [15:58] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Next year at CSUN I'm sure TPG will be there with loads of people again. :) Brucel is a different story, though, since he's at Opera. The last a11y guy who stuck with them. ;)
  138. # [15:58] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Oh, that's sad! But it's software, so it can be fixed! :)
  139. # [16:00] <@yzen> MarcoZ ya, eeejay had a great idea of mutating the raw events on android to look like they are normal input to the gesture tracker, but the way i process them depends on the output of gesture resolution not the input so i probably can't decouple it completely. not sure if that makes sense
  140. # [16:02] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Heh, try it, and you'll see if it does! ;)
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  143. # [16:03] <@yzen> MarcoZ oh i meant if what i said makes sense :)
  144. # [16:08] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I think it does. Android is quite a bit complicated in that we have some gestures we do translate, and others we don't.
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  149. # [16:10] <@MarcoZ> Stupid connection...
  150. # [16:31] <@yzen> MarcoZ curious, the status bar for firefox os, would we be using aria-live stuff for that ?
  151. # [16:33] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Hmm, no, since that might frequently update. The clock every minute, for example.
  152. # [16:34] <@MarcoZ> This status bar stuff is something users typically ask for specifically. Like the time, battery status, whether there is WiFi connectivity etc.
  153. # [16:34] <@yzen> MarcoZ yes agreed in case of the clock, but i m more interested in things like text message alert, etc
  154. # [16:34] <@yzen> email notification
  155. # [16:35] <@yzen> debugger connected
  156. # [16:35] <@MarcoZ> Yeah, the alerts of push messages (or notifications as they are also called) would be live regions.
  157. # [16:35] <@yzen> MarcoZ cool
  158. # [16:35] <@MarcoZ> yzen: So have you found out why the lock screen is so completely broken? I can't even unlock my phone in current nightly builds.
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  160. # [16:36] <@yzen> MarcoZ from a quick look there's an overlay that has pointer-events suppressed
  161. # [16:36] <@yzen> eeejay mentioned he might look into it, but i can hijack it
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  163. # [16:36] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Sigh...And our tests again don't catch that. :(
  164. # [16:37] <@yzen> MarcoZ yes him and I talked about it, we currently test a11y clicks on elements directly but instead (or in addition) we need to test actual touch events on elements which I plan to add
  165. # [16:37] <@yzen> MarcoZ then regressions like that won't fly
  166. # [16:41] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yeah that's much needed I feel!
  167. # [16:42] <@MarcoZ> yzen: But from what I saw before I ran into this problem, e. g. directly after I set up my phone, I am really really happy with the improvements you made to tabs, the dialer etc. Very good job!
  168. # [16:43] <@yzen> MarcoZ sweet
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  170. # [16:43] <@yzen> hopefully the touch gestures stuff will feel like an improvement too, the 2 finger swipes i found work super nicely now on the device
  171. # [16:43] <@yzen> MarcoZ ^
  172. # [16:44] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I so look forward to that working better! :)
  173. # [16:45] <@MarcoZ> So let's hope this passes review with eeejay now and that it can land soon!
  174. # [16:48] <@yzen> yep
  175. # [16:50] <@yzen> MarcoZ another question, do you think there are aspects of the firefox os that go beyond a single app that would improve a11y greatly ?
  176. # [16:50] * @davidb perks up
  177. # [16:50] <@yzen> MarcoZ like the notification bar stuff
  178. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Basically anything that is shared between a lot of apps. Like if there are things that can be improved when editing lists etc.
  179. # [16:52] <@MarcoZ> But I think the visibility stuff, the tabs etc. are already a huge win across various apps and screens.
  180. # [16:53] <@yzen> MarcoZ what about things like voice notifications like screen off/on, other?
  181. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> Yeah those would be very useful, too. Also if pages are flipped, like when going from one home screen to the next etc.
  182. # [16:54] <@MarcoZ> But that's harder to do I think.
  183. # [16:54] <@yzen> MarcoZ well at least on android it was a dial sound that changes the tone, what's it on ios ?
  184. # [16:55] <@MarcoZ> yzen: A generic slightly high-pitched sound that just indicates a page flip. Not something ascending or descending like on Android. And VoiceOver says "Page 3 of 5", for example, in parallel to that tone.
  185. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Also a sort of error tone if you have no next or previous item to swipe to would be good. VoiceOver and TalkBack both have that.
  186. # [16:57] <@yzen> oh ya that'd be super helpful
  187. # [16:58] <@yzen> MarcoZ i ll open a meta bug for that :)
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  189. # [17:11] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 994721 filed by yzenevich@mozilla.com.
  190. # [17:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=994721 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Add an error tone if you have no next or previous item to swipe to.
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  192. # [17:18] <@yzen> MarcoZ do triple swipes do anything on fxos?
  193. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> Nope.
  194. # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Nope.
  195. # [17:25] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Or...Hmm, the three finger swipes would be useful for the same functionality as on Android I think, but the devices are so small that three finger swipes are hard to master.
  196. # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> Esp left and right.
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  204. # [18:11] <@eeejay> yzen, good sound bugs
  205. # [18:14] <@eeejay> yzen, when you say "triple swipes" in the android patch. you mean 3 finger swipes?
  206. # [18:24] <@yzen> eeejay yes :)
  207. # [18:24] <@yzen> eeejay btw when do you want to meet ?
  208. # [18:24] <@eeejay> yzen, ok. lets call it that. in my mind triple swipe is 3 consecutive swipes, like double tap
  209. # [18:25] <@yzen> eeejay ok
  210. # [18:25] <@eeejay> yzen, in 2 minutes?
  211. # [18:25] <@yzen> hah sounds good
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  214. # [18:33] <satdav> eeejay, or yzen is any of you free
  215. # [18:33] <satdav> https://beta.etherpad.org does that work better now for screen readers
  216. # [18:33] <satdav> tbsaunde, ^
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  218. # [18:36] <satdav> davidb|afk, ^ is that something you can look at
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  221. # [19:11] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  222. # [19:18] <@davidb> jwei: can you answer Becky?
  223. # [19:19] <jwei> davidb: Answer what where?
  224. # [19:19] <@davidb> jwei: toronto-all
  225. # [19:19] <jwei> davidb: Didn't get an email yet, let me force refresh.
  226. # [19:20] <@davidb> jwei: well, i think i know why! she didn't reply all :) nevermind
  227. # [19:24] <jwei> davidb: Well, I had some awkward email timing there.
  228. # [19:24] <@davidb> s'fine
  229. # [19:29] <satdav> jwei, is that working for you that beta for etherpad
  230. # [19:30] <satdav> if you use a screen reader
  231. # [19:36] <jwei> satdav: Unfortunately, I'm an extremely novice screen reader user, so I wouldn't really have any useful feedback.
  232. # [19:38] <satdav> I dont use one
  233. # [19:39] <satdav> davidb, can you do any tests with it
  234. # [19:39] <satdav> as soon as we get the OK from you guys about the code we can then do the next update to etherpad
  235. # [19:39] <@davidb> not currently
  236. # [19:39] <@davidb> satdav what about that mailing list you started? could you ask there?
  237. # [19:40] <satdav> true
  238. # [19:40] <satdav> davidb, I dont think many is on it
  239. # [19:55] <satdav> jwei, you on the ally mailing list
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  243. # [20:04] <jwei> satdav: If you mean mozilla dev-accessibility, then yes.
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  245. # [20:05] <satdav> no mozilla accessibility
  246. # [20:06] <satdav> jwei, https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/accessibility
  247. # [20:06] <satdav> its one what i run
  248. # [20:06] <satdav> well moderate
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  264. # [21:59] <jwei> surkov: For the first part of the comment, would the following event handler for text caret moved in DOMi work? var offset = event.accessible.QueryInterface(nsIAccessibleHyperText).caretOffset;
  265. # [21:59] <jwei> output(offset);
  266. # [21:59] <@surkov> jwei: it should
  267. # [22:00] <@surkov> btw, in DOMi you can do 'target' iirc
  268. # [22:00] <jwei> surkov: Okay. The caretOffset is updated as you go (0 at the start, 1 when moving 1 step to right, etc.), so it should be fine.
  269. # [22:01] <@surkov> jwei: how does it work?
  270. # [22:01] <@surkov> if you don't update the caret
  271. # [22:09] <jwei> surkov: Oh, that's what you meant. Well, maybe the cached value shouldn't be based on the focused accessible, then, haha. It just calculates the offset every single time you ask for it since the cached value is never set.
  272. # [22:10] <@surkov> I see
  273. # [22:12] <satdav> did you sign on the list jwei
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  278. # [22:46] <jwei> satdav: Yes, I have. Thanks.
  279. # [22:47] <satdav> :)
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  290. # [23:35] <@davidb> eeejay: should we cc l10n on bug 981015] ?
  291. # [23:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981015 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Improve TouchAdapter.
  292. # [23:35] <@davidb> ;)
  293. # [23:36] <@eeejay> hah!
  294. # [23:36] <@eeejay> davidb, 1:1?
  295. # [23:36] <@davidb> eeejay, i should have pinged you earlier, the family dinner chaos is full bore right now
  296. # [23:36] <@davidb> eeejay, tomorrow?
  297. # [23:36] <@eeejay> davidb, sounds good.
  298. # [23:36] <@davidb> thanks
  299. # [23:37] <satdav> yes I would
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  309. # Session Close: Fri Apr 11 00:00:00 2014

The end :)