/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-04-22 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Apr 22 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [09:26] <@MarcoZ> Morning!
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- # [10:20] <@firebot> manishearth@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 634827 from nobody@mozilla.org to singh.kushagra93@gmail.com.
- # [10:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634827 nor, --, ---, singh.kushagra93, NEW, don't set up selection listeners for controls other than text fields
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- # [10:48] <SteveF> Hi MarcoZ
- # [10:48] <SteveF> MarcoZ: thanks for the feedback on bug - helpful
- # [10:52] <SteveF> MarcoZ: unfortunately I don't think the outline changes were well thought out from an implementation perspective, and prematurely etched into author advice. I still think it is potentially useful, but implementation needs rethinking
- # [11:00] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Yes it could potentially be useful if h2 through h6 were removed and h1 was renamed to "heading" or something, and we had *one* heading element whoselevel depended on the section nesting depth, for example. That way we'd force everybody to decide for one *or* the other, but mixing old tags with new algorithm ideas is...not a good idea.
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- # [11:06] <SteveF> MarcoZ: yes i agree, that having h1-h6 in the DOM actually meaning <heading> with a level based on nesting is confusing, I also think that having the implementation of the outline ONLY in the acc layer is problematic, we should be striving for an implementation that is visible, usable and understandable to your average developer, but has benefits for AT users. That is why I have raised the...
- # [11:06] <SteveF> ...idea of the algorithm being implemented as a DOM method, after discussions with mike smith.
- # [11:20] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Yeah but that only helps the AT implementation side of things, it still doesn't solve the problem of web developers understanding how to code stuff to actually make it work right.
- # [11:21] <@MarcoZ> not+
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- # [11:51] <SteveF> MarcoZ: back to the drawing board :-(
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- # [12:45] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Threw my proposal of a new single heading element into the ring that is the only thing allowed, together with section, to participate in such an outline algorithm thing.
- # [12:46] <SteveF> MarcoZ: yeah thanks!!
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- # [14:10] <@MarcoZ> Good morning yzen! :-)
- # [14:10] <@yzen> MarcoZ hi there :)
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- # [14:24] <SteveF> MarcoZ: at least we are getting some discussion happening ;-)
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- # [15:02] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Yeah, curious where it will go. Certainly good to know that I'm not the only one with the idea that a new unique element is needed.
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- # [16:12] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Your last comment to W3C bug25003 confuses me.
- # [16:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25003 nor, P3, M17, serhunt, VERI WONTFIX, LiveConnect needs to allow for testing for NAV4 plugins
- # [16:13] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: I of course meant the bug we were discussed back and forth on all along. :)
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- # [16:13] <@MarcoZ> s/discussed/discussing/
- # [16:14] <@MarcoZ> yzen_: I really like the better responsiveness of the touch interface in Firefox for Android. :-)
- # [16:14] <SteveF> MarcoZ: what I am saying is don't have a strict requirement in 5.0 so if the the outline depth requirement is implemented it won't be a conflicting requirement
- # [16:14] <yzen_> nice :)
- # [16:15] <yzen_> MarcoZ i think eeejay will have some snappiness improvements too
- # [16:17] <@MarcoZ> yzen_: Oh, in what bug?
- # [16:17] <yzen_> MarcoZ not sure there's one atm
- # [16:17] <SteveF> MarcoZ: is a result of friendly banter over on whatwg IRC http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20140422#l-379
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- # [16:28] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: "Friendly banter" is certainly nicely put. But that's tone we're used to, isn't it?
- # [16:29] <SteveF> MarcoZ: yes people wonder why I don't venture in often
- # [16:34] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Oh I totally cannot imagine why you're not hanging out there all the time! :-D :-D :-D
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- # [16:38] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [16:38] * @davidb is back from his teeth scraping
- # [16:43] <@MarcoZ> Heyo davidb! :-)
- # [16:44] <@davidb> hi hi hi
- # [16:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ, did you have a nice week?
- # [16:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Absolutely gorgeous! :-) Nice weather most of the time, some really nice activities. :-)
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- # [16:54] <SteveF> davidb: where were you when i was getting excoriated? getting your arse scraped sheesh :-)
- # [16:55] <SteveF> arse/teeeth
- # [16:55] <@davidb> lol
- # [16:55] <@davidb> SteveF, excoriated again?
- # [16:56] <SteveF> yeah http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20140422#l-379
- # [16:56] <SteveF> par for the course
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- # [17:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I also couldn't keep my mouth shut and jumped into that outline algorithm discussion again. :-)
- # [17:07] <@MarcoZ> Hardly back from vacation and already in trouble again. ;-)
- # [17:08] <@davidb> a11y brats
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- # [17:34] <tbsaunde> food?
- # [17:37] <@firebot> New Core - Keyboard: Navigation bug 999481 filed by bug@reallymymail.com.
- # [17:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=999481 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Navigating back/fwd using the keyboard (Alt+Numpad Arrows) inserts a diamond/spade character into fo
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- # [17:55] <@davidb> jwei, tbsaunde, surkov: afghani? burrito? something?
- # [17:55] <@surkov> I’m good with burrito
- # [17:55] <@surkov> afghani was too big for me last time
- # [17:55] * @davidb nods
- # [17:57] <jwei> davidb: Good with whatever.
- # [17:59] <@davidb> hopefully tbsaunde chimes in
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- # [18:01] <tbsaunde> davidb: whatever
- # [18:01] <@surkov> move for burrito?
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- # [18:01] <@davidb> tbsaunde, jwei, surkov yep
- # [18:01] <@davidb> roll
- # [18:02] <@surkov> ok
- # [18:02] <@eeejay> morn
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- # [19:06] <@davidb> jwei: looks good? https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/2014-04-22#Accessibility_.28dbolter.29
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- # [19:20] <jwei> davidb: I'll actually be speaking specifically about the MathML stuff.
- # [19:20] <@davidb> jwei, ok i'll edit
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- # [19:23] <@davidb> jwei, is "pioneering" fair?
- # [19:25] <jwei> davidb: Probably not - there exists MathML accessibility work, just not for Firefox.
- # [19:25] <@davidb> ok
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- # [20:25] <@davidb> eeejay: ping me whenever :) I have another meeting in 35 mins
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- # [20:28] <@eeejay> davidb, ok, finding room
- # [20:28] <@davidb> ok me too
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- # [20:31] <@eeejay> davidb, on skype
- # [20:31] <@davidb> eeejay I PMed you
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- # [22:05] <@yzen> eeejay hi
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- # [22:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: is there standard like NAN constant for unsinged int? I think how to make ConvertMagicOffset turn into returning an int
- # [22:15] <@surkov> use an error value as out arg?
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- # [22:33] <tbsaunde> surkov: no, I guess the closest would be magically deciding UINT32_MAX or whatever the name is is failure
- # [22:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yeah, what about bool out arg aIsFailed? would it be nicer?
- # [22:34] <@surkov> I’m just curious if we can be sure that we never deal with MAX values as offsets
- # [22:34] <@surkov> if the text can be this long
- # [22:35] <tbsaunde> surkov: both seem kind of gross
- # [22:35] <@surkov> yeah, tbsaunde, do you have preferecnes?
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- # [22:35] <tbsaunde> well, it seems pretty unlikely you'd have a string that is 2^32 - 1 long
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- # [22:36] <tbsaunde> maybe uyou could use size_t instead of uint32_t and than the max value wouldn't be possible since then the whole address space would be the one string
- # [22:36] <@surkov> do you know if gecko allwos strings of this length theoretically?
- # [22:37] <tbsaunde> UINT32_MAX? I think so, but I wouldn't be at all suprised if there was bugs
- # [22:37] <tbsaunde> I guess I'd go for the size_t thing
- # [22:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what is size_t definition?
- # [22:40] <tbsaunde> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cstring/size_t/
- # [22:40] <tbsaunde> not really great, but it contains the important bit
- # [22:42] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why it can’t represent MAX value?
- # [22:43] <tbsaunde> surkov: what do you mean?
- # [22:43] <@eeejay> yzen, hey
- # [22:44] <@surkov> perhaps wrong question, I still not sure I see a differentce between size_t and uint32_t as return value
- # [22:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ^
- # [22:44] <@yzen> eeejay hi, forgot what i wanted to ask :)
- # [22:45] <tbsaunde> surkov: on x86_64 size_t will be 64 bits, so you can't have string of length SIE_MAX
- # [22:45] <@eeejay> yzen, i'll be here when you remember :)
- # [22:46] <@surkov> tbsaunde: either way int32_t value can be MAX of uint32_t, no?
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- # [22:53] <@yzen> eeejay i think it was something related to search app, but i asked for f? on bugzilla anyways ..
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- # [22:57] <@eeejay> yzen, checking it out
- # [22:57] <@yzen> cool
- # [22:59] <tbsaunde> surkov: I don't understand
- # [23:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: say I have void Check(int32_t aValue_ { aValue == MAX of uint23_t; } can it ever return true?
- # [23:01] <tbsaunde> surkov: yes
- # [23:02] <tbsaunde> now if that number came from the length of a string it can only be yes on x86_64
- # [23:02] <tbsaunde> and if you use a 64 bit type on x86-64 it will never be true
- # [23:02] <@surkov> I thought int32_t need to store negative bit somewhere so unit32_t is larger, no?
- # [23:03] <tbsaunde> surkov: no, they just have different ranges
- # [23:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what different ranges is and does it affect on max value?
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- # [23:05] <tbsaunde> surkov: int32_t has range { - 2^31 2^31 - 1 } and uint32_t has range { 0 2^32 - 1 }
- # [23:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so MAX of unin32_t is bigger than any of int32_t, no?
- # [23:06] <tbsaunde> surkov: yes
- # [23:06] <@surkov> so int32_t == MAX of uint32_t is always false?
- # [23:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ^
- # [23:07] <tbsaunde> surkov: in bits or in math?
- # [23:08] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what’s difference, when I gave you an example with function you said the expression can be true, how is it comes?
- # [23:08] <tbsaunde> surkov: err, I was thinking of bool foo(uint32_t x) { return x == UINT32_MAX; }
- # [23:09] <@surkov> got it
- # [23:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so if we the method takes int32_t then I can go with uint32_t as return value
- # [23:09] <@surkov> right?
- # [23:09] <tbsaunde> surkov: though int32_t(-1) == UINT32_MAX if you just look at the bits and ignore the type (atleast on all reasonable aka two's complement machines)
- # [23:10] <tbsaunde> surkov: yes
- # [23:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: will any negative value of int32_t be casted to UINT32_MAX?
- # [23:10] <tbsaunde> surkov: note the whole thing is broken for strings longer than 2^31 - 1 though
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- # [23:11] <tbsaunde> surkov: implicitly?
- # [23:11] <@surkov> yes
- # [23:11] <@surkov> API doesn’t let us to deal with larger strings
- # [23:11] <@surkov> or via static_cast<>
- # [23:11] <@surkov> does it matter? tbsaunde
- # [23:12] <tbsaunde> I can never remember C's rules about if you can implicitly convert back and forth between signed and unsigned types
- # [23:12] <tbsaunde> surkov: well I'm not really sure what your asking
- # [23:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I meant if I return negative value from function that has uint32_t return value
- # [23:12] <@surkov> what the result will be?
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- # [23:13] <@surkov> should I have checks like if (aValue < 0) return UINT32_MAX; or I can do return aValue;
- # [23:13] <tbsaunde> surkov: I'd hope the compiler would yell at you and then your probably invoking undefined behavior
- # [23:13] <tbsaunde> you should have a check
- # [23:14] <@surkov> ok
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- # Session Close: Wed Apr 23 00:00:01 2014
The end :)