/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-04-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Apr 24 00:00:01 2014
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  56. # [07:54] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox29 to wontfix on bug 638465.
  57. # [07:54] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox30 to affected on bug 638465.
  58. # [07:54] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox31 to verified on bug 638465.
  59. # [07:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=638465 nor, --, mozilla31, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, We're not picking up the insertion into the newly created window of testcase for bug 637644
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  97. # [09:49] <@MarcoZ> Good morning!
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  269. # [12:48] <@MarcoZ> Back.
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  294. # [13:16] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1000500 from --- to FIXED.
  295. # [13:16] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1000500 from NEW to RESOLVED.
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  298. # [13:16] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1000500 from --- to mozilla31.
  299. # [13:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1000500 nor, --, mozilla31, yzenevich, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] When traversing to the link, prevent stepping into it.
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  337. # [13:49] <@MarcoZ> Good morning all! :-)
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  373. # [15:36] * @MarcoZ must re-do his work Windows machine and does it via BootCamp instead of a VM this time. Somehow working in Windows productivelyis anoylingly slow in a VM in the long run.
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  379. # [16:00] <@davidb> heyo!
  380. # [16:01] <@MarcoZ> Heyo davidb!
  381. # [16:01] <@davidb> MarcoZ, surkov, it will be interesting to see how we can best work with the W3C together as we go.
  382. # [16:02] <@MarcoZ> jwei: Hi! Just saw your comment in bug 1000465 about the zoom tests failing. I saw those recently, too, but ignored them because they were not in the field I was working in. Seems to have to do with High DPI screens.
  383. # [16:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1000465 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, fix bunch of warning in hypertext accessible class
  384. # [16:02] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Indeed!
  385. # [16:03] <@davidb> also, sometimes we won't agree, we'll have to decide whether to argue in public or try to keep the noise down and have a united voice.
  386. # [16:03] <jwei> MarcoZ: Yeah, there's a few tests that permanently fail on high DPI screens. The ones I'm mentioning were added with the type warning fixes, though.
  387. # [16:03] <@surkov> davidb, MarcoZ let’s schedule a chat, I will be in the office tomorrow
  388. # [16:03] <@davidb> surkov, great, how about 10am our time?
  389. # [16:03] <@surkov> davidb: sure, I arrive early
  390. # [16:03] <@davidb> MarcoZ?
  391. # [16:04] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  392. # [16:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: surkov: I'll be there!
  393. # [16:05] <@davidb> cool, I'll zimbra it up
  394. # [16:09] <tbsaunde> davidb: I can i take "not" for $500? ;)
  395. # [16:10] <@davidb> tbsaunde, heheh yes for this meeting.
  396. # [16:11] <tbsaunde> davidb: I meant for howt to work with the w3c
  397. # [16:11] <@davidb> oh
  398. # [16:11] <@davidb> well 'work with' can be quite a spectrum
  399. # [16:11] <@davidb> optimizing it is hard
  400. # [16:14] <tbsaunde> davidb: I was half joking
  401. # [16:14] <@MarcoZ> jwei: Question is if we have any idea how to fix these zoom-related bugs? But I realize you're nearing the end of your internship, so I won't bother you with this unless you want to voluntarily. :-)
  402. # [16:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde, right a joke with some truth
  403. # [16:15] <@davidb> MarcoZ: give him enough work that he can't go back to school
  404. # [16:16] <jwei> davidb MarcoZ: Not that I particularly want to go back to school. :P
  405. # [16:16] <@davidb> jwei, i'm with you.
  406. # [16:17] * @davidb has put his PhD off indefinitely
  407. # [16:19] <tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I though surkov had a patch?
  408. # [16:19] <@MarcoZ> Same here, i can totally understand how jwei feels! I made that same choice 15 years ago. :-)
  409. # [16:19] <@MarcoZ> But that was not meant as general encouragement, of course! :-)
  410. # [16:19] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Well, I've not seen one, that's why I'm asking.
  411. # [16:21] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: surkov: All I know is that, when i see these zoom-related test failures in local builds, I ignore them because they don't relate to the code I work on.
  412. # [16:21] <@yzen> MarcoZ hey
  413. # [16:26] <@surkov> MarcoZ: they are because of retina
  414. # [16:31] * @davidb hunts tylenol
  415. # [16:33] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I realize that. But there must be a way to fix them, no?
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  417. # [16:33] <@MarcoZ> Hi yzen!
  418. # [16:33] <@yzen> MarcoZ , i watned to ask about the entry role
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  420. # [16:33] <@surkov> MarcoZ: sure
  421. # [16:33] <@yzen> still thinking what the best semantics is for the statusbar and its components
  422. # [16:34] <@surkov> MarcoZ: wanna take it? :)
  423. # [16:35] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Nope. :-)
  424. # [16:35] <@surkov> sad :)
  425. # [16:35] <@MarcoZ> surkov: This visual stuff is the last thing *I* should be working on.
  426. # [16:36] <@surkov> it’s rather failing test than visual stuff
  427. # [16:36] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  428. # [16:37] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  429. # [16:38] <@yzen> MarcoZ ^
  430. # [16:40] <@MarcoZ> surkov: But the tests that are failing have to do with a very visual feature. :-)
  431. # [16:40] <@MarcoZ> yzen: So what's the question?
  432. # [16:41] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it’s true but probably less important than it’s a failure :)
  433. # [16:41] <@yzen> MarcoZ so you suggested group for the status bar itself which makes sense, what'd be the best role for the actual statusbar icon/element ?
  434. # [16:42] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  435. # [16:43] <@MarcoZ> yzen: That depends on the items. In iOS, all those items are just separate touchable text items that have labels such as "3 of 5 bars" "Telekom.de network" "3 of 3 WiFi-bars", "16:45" "Bluetooth on" "Location services on" "Battery 75 percent".
  436. # [16:44] <@MarcoZ> And if a new notification appears, it is put over the top of these and becomes the touchable item. It also gets spoken automatically and interrupts other speech, much like an assertive live region, so one can react to it immediately.
  437. # [16:44] <@yzen> MarcoZ interesting so no particular role announced
  438. # [16:44] <@MarcoZ> the other items are not spoken when they update.
  439. # [16:44] <@yzen> makes sense\
  440. # [16:46] <@MarcoZ> yzen: When such a notification appears that gets spoken, touching, then double-tapping it will automatically bring up the application which sent the notification.
  441. # [16:47] <@yzen> right
  442. # [16:47] <@MarcoZ> This works similarly in Android, although the standard Nexus launcher mashes the notifications all together in one big chunk rather than separate items. But there are other status bar widgets on Android that do a better job at separating things.
  443. # [16:48] <@yzen> thanks MarcoZ
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  448. # [16:50] <@MarcoZ> surkov: My problem is also that these screen calculations confuse me, probably because I have a hard time visualizing what is happening, or transfering numbers into happenings in screen cords. So I'd appreciate it if someone better suited for these kinds of calculations and such could take this.
  449. # [16:51] <@surkov> MarcoZ: that’s easy, you just need to multiply numbers at 2
  450. # [16:52] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Well from the stuff we had to deal with in Android, it sure looked more complicated to me than that.
  451. # [16:53] <@surkov> ok, I don’t know about android failures
  452. # [16:53] <@surkov> I just saw tehm on os x
  453. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> There are none AFAIK.
  454. # [16:54] <@MarcoZ> I saw them on OS X and Windows. But not all of them, and not always. And that alone gave me a headache.
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  464. # [17:33] <@yzen> MarcoZ in terms of elements such as status bar entries, would a note role be appropriate? i am looking for a role that would have the announcement and traversal rules that would satisfy both text icons and image icons..
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  468. # [17:48] <jwei> surkov: ping
  469. # [17:48] <@surkov> jwei: pong
  470. # [17:49] <jwei> surkov: In https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=916419#c26, point number 3 suggests that mfenced elements have the open/close operators and separators exposed in the tree.
  471. # [17:49] <@firebot> Bug 916419 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Expose MathML as a hierarchical accessible tree
  472. # [17:49] <jwei> surkov: Is it the TreeWalker that determines what is put into the accessible tree or not?
  473. # [17:50] * Parts: jlin (jlin@moz-615916EF.x.rootbsd.net)
  474. # [17:50] <@surkov> jwei: not really, TreeWalker determines the order of DOM tree traversal
  475. # [17:50] <@surkov> jwei: AccessibilityService decides what is accessible
  476. # [17:53] <@surkov> jwei: not sure about mfenced, but it looks like we don’t really need to have an accessible for it, if we had text leaf accessibles for braces then it mgiht be enough. on the another hand having mfenced as accessible would let AT to find braced statement more easily
  477. # [17:53] <@surkov> jwei: what is your current approach?
  478. # [17:54] <jwei> surkov: Currently, mfenced is an accessible, but its children is only the content. An example is (x, y) where mfenced contains two children, mi x and mi y. There's no information for (, ',', and ).
  479. # [17:54] <@surkov> jwei: did you check the accessible tree actually? TreeWalker might find something from frame tree
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  481. # [17:55] <jwei> surkov: There's nothing there in the finished accessible tree (DOM inspector) on both current Firefox as well as with the MathML patches applied, but I'll take a look at when we build the tree.
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  483. # [17:56] <@surkov> jwei: ok, I see, I think it can be dealt separately
  484. # [17:57] <jwei> surkov: I took a look at the nsMathMLmfencedFrame, and it looks like the operators are rendered separately from the content, so it's possible that it's because they're not explicitly in the MathML namespace (content->IsMathML returns false).
  485. # [17:58] <@surkov> jwei: perhaps it can be changed to nsIAnonymousTreeCreator approach
  486. # [18:01] <@davidb> jwei, tbsaunde, i'm hankering for food
  487. # [18:01] <@davidb> maybe pamier kebab?
  488. # [18:01] <jwei> davidb: Sure.
  489. # [18:01] <@davidb> we'd have to roll now
  490. # [18:02] * @davidb stands
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  505. # [19:45] * tbsaunde just got a palindrome bug number 1001001
  506. # [19:47] <@davidb> heh
  507. # [19:48] <@yzen> i had one too the other day 997799
  508. # [19:48] <@davidb> amazingnizama
  509. # [19:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 1000465 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  510. # [19:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1000465 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, fix bunch of warning in hypertext accessible class
  511. # [19:58] <@davidb> that review? (me) sometimes fools me :)
  512. # [19:59] <jwei> davidb: Hmm. Is there a way to alias it?
  513. # [19:59] <@davidb> s'ok, not sure.
  514. # [19:59] <jwei> davidb: Apart from changing the e-mail address, anyway.
  515. # [19:59] * @davidb shrugs
  516. # [20:00] <tbsaunde> davidb: ?
  517. # [20:01] <@davidb> tbsaunde, when jwei is requested for review it shortens his email address to "me" and displays that as the requestee
  518. # [20:01] <@davidb> no biggie
  519. # [20:03] <jwei> davidb: …it also appears I lost all permissions after changing the e-mail.
  520. # [20:04] <@davidb> jwei: ha! i can add those
  521. # [20:04] <@davidb> jwei, address?
  522. # [20:05] <jwei> davidb: me@jonathanwei.ca
  523. # [20:05] <@davidb> errr
  524. # [20:05] <@davidb> you didn't change the email
  525. # [20:05] * @davidb is confused
  526. # [20:06] <@davidb> anyways, i see you and will add back
  527. # [20:06] <jwei> davidb: After switching my Bugzilla account from jwei@mozilla.com to me@jonathanwei.ca, I now have no permission bits.
  528. # [20:06] <@davidb> ahhh
  529. # [20:06] <@davidb> jwei, before i do this then... do you have a jwei@jonathanwei.ca?
  530. # [20:07] <jwei> davidb: I can go activate it.
  531. # [20:07] <jwei> davidb: And use that for Bugzilla to reduce confusion.
  532. # [20:07] <@davidb> ok cool and i'll get you your permissions when i'm back online at 3:30
  533. # [20:07] <@davidb> 3:45
  534. # [20:07] <@davidb> ttfn
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  540. # [20:53] <@davidb> jwei, done.
  541. # [20:53] <jwei> davidb: Cool, thanks.
  542. # [20:53] <@davidb> np thanks for the change
  543. # [20:56] <@firebot> jmathies@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 722178 from jmathies@mozilla.com to nobody@mozilla.org.
  544. # [20:56] <@firebot> jmathies@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 722178 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  545. # [20:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722178 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Microsoft Magnifier tool does not focus (follow) text editing cursor properly when the cursor is not
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  555. # [21:40] <icaaq> Hi, what would you say about adding a webaccess or weba11y keyword in bugzilla.
  556. # [21:40] <@davidb> icaaq, we have "access"
  557. # [21:41] <@davidb> and sec508
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  559. # [21:41] <icaaq> davidb yes, i know. but that is more of what you guys are doing :)
  560. # [21:42] <icaaq> ohh, sec508 i didn't know about that
  561. # [21:49] <icaaq> davidb i still think a weba11y keyword would be handy. now there are different ways of describing a bug eg. [a11y] in the summary
  562. # [21:50] <icaaq> or access keyword that will send out lots of mail to people that maybe not are interested in webdev a11y
  563. # [21:54] <@davidb> icaaq, i'd use access until you hear grumping
  564. # [21:54] <@davidb> that said, i have nothing against adding weba11y
  565. # [21:54] <@davidb> or similar
  566. # [21:54] <icaaq> davidb ok
  567. # [21:56] <@davidb> icaaq... if we add a few related keywords like this... maybe we should have a common prefix...
  568. # [21:57] <@davidb> access, access-web, access-infra, access-foo
  569. # [21:57] <@davidb> seems to be the way things go
  570. # [21:57] <icaaq> davidb +1
  571. # [21:58] <icaaq> access-web would be good I think
  572. # [21:58] <@davidb> ok so if down the road you see the need, file the bug request and ping me
  573. # [21:58] <icaaq> will do :)
  574. # [21:58] <@davidb> icaaq, thanks for all that you do.
  575. # [21:59] * @davidb -->meeting
  576. # [21:59] <icaaq> davidb :)
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  578. # [22:15] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox30 to fixed on bug 638465.
  579. # [22:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=638465 nor, --, mozilla31, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, We're not picking up the insertion into the newly created window of testcase for bug 637644
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  593. # [23:34] <tbsaunde> jwei: you heading out soon? I have no clue how far this palce is
  594. # [23:34] <jwei> tbsaunde: I don't even know where we're going, haha.
  595. # [23:34] <jwei> tbsaunde: I'll grab you when we're leaving.
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  600. # Session Close: Fri Apr 25 00:00:00 2014

The end :)