/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-05-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon May 12 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:14] * Joins: yash_ (uid13811@moz-E77DEB21.irccloud.com)
  4. # [00:15] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 1008583 from Tabbed Browser to Disability Access.
  5. # [00:15] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from edilee@mozilla.co m on bug 1008583.
  6. # [00:16] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1008583 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  7. # [00:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1008583 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [New Tab page] Invisible buttons with browser.display.use_document_colors=false
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  23. # [10:58] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
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  26. # [11:48] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com cancelled needinfo?(edilee@mozilla.co m) on bug 1008583.
  27. # [11:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1008583 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [New Tab page] Invisible buttons with browser.display.use_document_colors=false
  28. # [11:51] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested needinfo from edilee@mozilla.co m on bug 1008583.
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  41. # [15:03] <SteveF> MarcoZ: hi, so it looks like they are going to fix the clickable issue in polymer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2014May/0005.html
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  44. # [15:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox31 to fixed on bug 1001945.
  45. # [15:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001945 nor, --, mozilla32, yzenevich, RESO FIXED, Intermittent test_gesture_tracker.html | Test timed out | test_live_regions.html,test_pointer_relay.
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  48. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Very good! :-)
  49. # [15:41] <SteveF> anybody tell me if i want to file a CSS element styling related bug which component i should assign here https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Core
  50. # [15:42] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: Something under Core/DOM I'd say.
  51. # [15:42] <SteveF> MarcoZ: thanks
  52. # [15:43] <@davidb> heyo!
  53. # [15:43] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: If you didn't hit the right component, someone will soon triage and move it to the right one. So no worries, as long as the bug description is clear enough. ;-) Or it has a testcase.
  54. # [15:43] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  55. # [15:43] <@davidb> hi hi
  56. # [15:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ, I built and flashed ffos on the reference phone on Saturday
  57. # [15:44] * @davidb wonders if eeejay's pico fix landed
  58. # [15:45] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I don't think it has landed yet.
  59. # [15:45] <@davidb> ack
  60. # [15:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde you around?
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  63. # [15:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: 1:1 as usual in about 10?
  64. # [15:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ wfm
  65. # [15:52] <@MarcoZ> Cool!
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  68. # [16:00] <@davidb> MarcoZ, PMed ya
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  72. # [16:03] <@davidb> sorry wireless dropped
  73. # [16:03] <@davidb> MarcoZ, I PMed ya
  74. # [16:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I can hear you, but I cannot access that fucking door hanger to allow access to the mic!
  75. # [16:05] <@davidb> do we have a bug for that?
  76. # [16:05] <@MarcoZ> I have no idea
  77. # [16:05] <@davidb> sigh
  78. # [16:05] <@davidb> ok skype
  79. # [16:05] <@MarcoZ> These things are totally messed up through and through.
  80. # [16:05] <@MarcoZ> And yes I am pissed.
  81. # [16:05] <@davidb> MarcoZ, skype me at will
  82. # [16:06] <@MarcoZ> Fucking bullshit doorhangers
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  84. # [16:35] <@davidb> MarcoZ if you click on video here i think focus goes to the doorhanger? http://mozilla.github.io/webrtc-landing/gum_test.html
  85. # [16:35] <@davidb> (so why doesn't in on the other site)
  86. # [16:36] <@davidb> oh focus is going there for me on the other site too
  87. # [16:36] * @davidb scratches his head
  88. # [16:36] <@davidb> sorry i was confused... so this is an AT interaction specific problem?
  89. # [16:46] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I believe I'm onto something. Can you go back into your chat room where you invited me to?
  90. # [16:46] <@davidb> yes
  91. # [16:47] <@MarcoZ> OK, I just got there when you weren't there, and there, the doorhanger stayed. Now, I'll come back there, and let's see.
  92. # [16:47] <@davidb> MarcoZ, it seems to work when you reload?
  93. # [16:47] <@davidb> (focus on doorhanger)
  94. # [16:56] <@davidb> surkov, i think the a11y test added in bug 966166 isn't really an a11y test (misuse)?
  95. # [16:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=966166 nor, --, ---, quanxunzhen, ASSI, Implement @counter-style rule
  96. # [16:56] <tbsaunde> davidb: am now
  97. # [16:56] <@davidb> tbsaunde, step into our office anytime
  98. # [16:57] <@surkov> davidb: why do you think so?
  99. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Ping?
  100. # [16:58] <Gijs> MarcoZ: pong
  101. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: What would it take to convince you to volunteer for doorhanger keyboard and focus accessibility? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=972117
  102. # [16:58] <@firebot> Bug 972117 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Meta] Doorhangers: don't auto focus, include in f6 key order
  103. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> ..and dependencies.
  104. # [16:59] <@davidb> surkov, he is just creating <li> with content and checking the accessible name.
  105. # [16:59] <@davidb> i mean i don't mind r+ing but it ... well.
  106. # [17:00] <Gijs> MarcoZ: time.
  107. # [17:00] <@surkov> davidb: I don’t follow what worries you
  108. # [17:00] <Gijs> MarcoZ: we're starting the new iteration thingy with all of fx-team tomorrow
  109. # [17:00] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I don't know how full my plate will be at the end of that.
  110. # [17:00] <@davidb> surkov, i'm not worried.
  111. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Sigh, and doorhangers, which are very much part of Firefox front-end, are not a part of that of course. :-(
  112. # [17:01] <@surkov> davidb: I meant I don’t understand your point
  113. # [17:01] <Gijs> MarcoZ: actually, they probably are.
  114. # [17:01] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but I don't know how these issues would be prioritized
  115. # [17:01] <Gijs> MarcoZ: equally, I'm not sure what the exact issues are without reading all the deps
  116. # [17:02] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: That would be extremely fortunate!
  117. # [17:02] <@davidb> surkov, give me 10 mins :)
  118. # [17:02] <Gijs> MarcoZ: briefly: adding noautofocus and so on isn't hard, and we should just do that.
  119. # [17:02] <@surkov> sure
  120. # [17:02] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: The issues are basically: 1. Always include them in F6 order.
  121. # [17:02] <Gijs> MarcoZ: Neil says F6 should already work, and he doesn't know why it doesn't
  122. # [17:02] <Gijs> MarcoZ: that isn't good news, because basically it means we don't know what's wrong :)
  123. # [17:03] <Gijs> MarcoZ: as for the menu-type toolbar buttons, I'm not sure why they're blocking this bug. :)
  124. # [17:03] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Yeah but he also didn't stay on it to follow through and investigate. :-(
  125. # [17:03] <Gijs> (menus != doorhangers)
  126. # [17:03] <Gijs> Neil is very busy
  127. # [17:03] <Gijs> he's basically one of 2 people who know toolkit/xul/panel/popup stuff really well
  128. # [17:03] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Issue 2: Be consistent with keyboard focus when inside. Like this double-button thing where one is a drop-down menu, the other is just a regular button.
  129. # [17:03] <Gijs> and the only employee
  130. # [17:03] <Gijs> AFAIK
  131. # [17:04] <Gijs> oh, I see, we use these buttons inside the panels?
  132. # [17:04] <Gijs> OK, yeah, that sounds problematic
  133. # [17:04] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Yeah well the thing is these buttons only appear in the door hangers, that's why they're a dependency.
  134. # [17:04] <Gijs> (well, in some cases.
  135. # [17:04] <Gijs> Well, they appear with add-ons as well.
  136. # [17:04] <Gijs> but sure
  137. # [17:04] <Gijs> I see why it's there now.
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  139. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: BTW I once tried looking into this noautofocus thing, but didn't even know where these doorhangers are being input or created, so didn't know where to put that attribute.
  140. # [17:05] <Gijs> MarcoZ: OK.
  141. # [17:06] <Gijs> MarcoZ: so our criterium for including stuff in the backlog is basically "needs to be actionable", and "needs to be something that we should arguably fix 'soon'"
  142. # [17:06] <Gijs> MarcoZ: unfortunately, right now it seems only the addition of noautofocus really meets those criteria
  143. # [17:06] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: A third issue is that sometimes, these doorhangers randomly disappear. I've had such a case with the WebRTC doorhanger earlier today, and I also saw that with the Social API doorhanger on getpocket.com yesterday. Really weird, and I didn't even click with the mouse. But after a second or two, the doorhangers were gone.
  144. # [17:06] <Gijs> MarcoZ: however, I can try and look into the bugs in general in the coming week, but I can't promise anything.
  145. # [17:07] <Gijs> MarcoZ: that sounds orthogonal, and not a11y-related per se... :)
  146. # [17:07] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Well that noautofocus would be a start. If you know where to put these...
  147. # [17:07] <Gijs> (and like something you should file! :) )
  148. # [17:07] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: In what component should this go?
  149. # [17:09] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com granted firefox-backlog on bug 990045.
  150. # [17:09] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from enndeakin@gmail.c om on bug 990045.
  151. # [17:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=990045 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Don't Auto-focus the Save Password prompt
  152. # [17:09] <Gijs> MarcoZ: probably untriaged until we figure out what's going on.
  153. # [17:09] <Gijs> MarcoZ: the best would be if you have reasonably solid STR...
  154. # [17:10] <Gijs> (but it should be filed either way)
  155. # [17:10] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Will do, but in case of WebRTC, I currently can no longer repro, but the Pocket case should be reproducible.
  156. # [17:19] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  157. # [17:20] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Filed, and CC'd you.
  158. # [17:20] <@davidb> surkov, back. so i'm fine with those tests, but all they do is test <li> name accessibility AFAICT
  159. # [17:21] <@davidb> they sort of use a11y to test the css rules functionality
  160. # [17:21] <@davidb> seems unusual to me
  161. # [17:21] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  162. # [17:22] <@surkov> davidb: things seems opposite for me :) it’s CSS affecting on a11y
  163. # [17:22] <@surkov> basically we get new CSS thing and we test how it’s exposed in a11y
  164. # [17:22] <@surkov> that should be normal
  165. # [17:23] <Gijs> MarcoZ: thanks!
  166. # [17:23] <@davidb> surkov, am i missing somethiing?
  167. # [17:23] <@surkov> davidb: perhaps not, I think you just looking from different angle
  168. # [17:23] <@surkov> davidb: CSS affects on accessible tree, right? so having a11y tests for that is ok
  169. # [17:24] <@davidb> i just don't see this testing how css affects the a11y tree
  170. # [17:24] <@davidb> surkov, he sets up the <li>'s here https://pastebin.mozilla.org/5139343
  171. # [17:24] <@surkov> davidb: that CSS thing affects on bullet of list item
  172. # [17:24] <@davidb> item.textContent = rule.name
  173. # [17:25] <@davidb> it seems we just test that works ^
  174. # [17:25] <@surkov> there’s no a11y bug and as long as they implement that CSS thing as other list style is implemented we won’t have a bug
  175. # [17:25] <@surkov> but if they would do a different implementation then we could have a problem I guess
  176. # [17:26] <@surkov> after all it’s just a test coverage
  177. # [17:26] <@davidb> no harm
  178. # [17:26] <@surkov> we have test coverage for some list style types so we just get more
  179. # [17:26] <@surkov> no harm but it’s useful
  180. # [17:27] <@surkov> you don’t need to worry whether this style is correctly exposed in a11y if you have those tests
  181. # [17:27] <@davidb> surkov, the testName tests?
  182. # [17:27] <@surkov> it’s one way how to test it I think
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  184. # [17:28] <@surkov> alternatively you could test a tree with names
  185. # [17:28] <@davidb> cssRules[i].name isn't an a11y name... it is just a value he uses to put in the <li> content
  186. # [17:29] <@davidb> i just don't see where we are actually testing the accessibility of these styles, other than they don't somehow break us
  187. # [17:29] * @davidb shrugs
  188. # [17:32] <@davidb> surkov ^
  189. # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: He just tests that the CSS rule transformation taking place also is correctly added to the a11y name of the list items, if I understand this test correctly.
  190. # [17:35] <@surkov> davidb: not sure I got it, they test list style type, right?
  191. # [17:35] <@MarcoZ> In essence, that the screen reader gets the same as the display does, and he iterates over the CSS rules he sets up at the top of the file.
  192. # [17:35] * @davidb rereads
  193. # [17:35] <@surkov> created with help of tricky @counter-style
  194. # [17:36] <@MarcoZ> Exactly.
  195. # [17:36] <@MarcoZ> But this makes for some cool list styling. Didn't know you can do that with CSS.
  196. # [17:36] <@davidb> Oh!
  197. # [17:36] <@surkov> right, like if you don’t want to be restricted by predefined list style types then you create your own ones
  198. # [17:37] <@davidb> i knew i missed something :)
  199. # [17:37] <@surkov> and that’s they test
  200. # [17:37] <@surkov> ok
  201. # [17:37] <@davidb> thanks both
  202. # [17:37] <@MarcoZ> YW!
  203. # [17:38] * @MarcoZ likes the fact that these a11y tests are included by the original patch author right from the start. :-)
  204. # [17:41] <@davidb> MarcoZ, we should publicize this http://webcompat.com/
  205. # [17:42] <@davidb> I hope it is accessible.
  206. # [17:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: It is, well at least the normal front page is.
  207. # [17:43] <@MarcoZ> Let me look at the bug form.
  208. # [17:43] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  209. # [17:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ, also, here is that GAAD Paris thing http://www.eventbrite.com/e/billets-journee-mondiale-de-la-sensibilisation-a-laccessibilite-web-11526573291
  210. # [17:48] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  211. # [17:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb|afk: The list of experts is nice, I know at least three names on there. This is a great event!
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  220. # [19:55] <@firebot> enndeakin@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(enndeakin@gmail.c om) on bug 990045.
  221. # [19:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=990045 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Don't Auto-focus the Save Password prompt
  222. # [19:58] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from marco.zehe@google mail.com on bug 990045.
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  226. # [20:18] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com cancelled needinfo?(marco.zehe@google mail.com) on bug 990045.
  227. # [20:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=990045 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Don't Auto-focus the Save Password prompt
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  238. # [20:56] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1009143 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  239. # [20:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1009143 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add option to match containers in pivot API
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  246. # [21:39] <@davidb> tbsaunde: PM ping
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  252. # [22:39] <tbsaunde> surkov: can AT get at hanging docs?
  253. # [22:41] <@surkov> tbsaunde: normally they shoudln’t but I don’t recall if they are available in hierarchy early
  254. # [22:42] <tbsaunde> surkov: then I think I won't tell main process about them and hope nobody minds
  255. # [22:43] <@surkov> it should be ok
  256. # [22:52] <yash_> !seen eeejay
  257. # [22:52] <@firebot> eeejay was last seen 3 days, 8 minutes and 48 seconds ago, saying 'yzen, i am worried that gecko is simply unlocalized because it is chromeless' in #accessibility.
  258. # [22:52] <eeejay> yash_, hey
  259. # [22:52] <yash_> hi
  260. # [22:53] <yash_> How do I go about providing a test link for the bug. -> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1007834#c2
  261. # [22:53] <@firebot> Bug 1007834 nor, --, ---, yash.girdhar, ASSI, boolean preference to enable speech synthesis should be present by default in the browser
  262. # [22:53] <yash_> eeejay: ^
  263. # [22:54] <eeejay> yash_, i'll commit to try
  264. # [22:54] <eeejay> in 5 minutes, finishinga build here
  265. # [22:55] <yash_> eeejay: sure. Thanks :)
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  275. # Session Close: Tue May 13 00:00:00 2014

The end :)