/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-05-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 21 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  33. # [01:25] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Status on bug 949518 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  34. # [01:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=949518 nor, --, mozilla32, jwei, VERI FIXED, Incorrect caret offset if queried while accessible tree is mutating (affects changing value with arr
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  42. # [03:41] <@firebot> jwei@jonathanwei.ca changed the Assignee on bug 1011736 from nobody@mozilla.org to jwei@jonathanwei.ca.
  43. # [03:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1011736 cri, --, ---, jwei, NEW, crash in mozilla::a11y::Accessible::Shutdown()
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  55. # [06:05] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 1013744 filed by cpeterson@mozilla.com.
  56. # [06:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1013744 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [e10s] Greasemonkey addon prevents CMD+OPT+K and CMD+OPT+I keyboard shortcuts from opening Web Conso
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  98. # [13:42] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
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  101. # [13:49] <@firebot> catalin.varga@softvision.ro changed the Status on bug 445461 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  102. # [13:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445461 nor, --, Firefox 30, dao, VERI FIXED, MRU tab order lost when restoring a session
  103. # [13:50] * agibson|afk is now known as agibson
  104. # [13:51] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1004294 from --- to FIXED.
  105. # [13:51] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1004294 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  106. # [13:51] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1004294 from --- to mozilla32.
  107. # [13:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1004294 nor, --, mozilla32, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Explore by touch in B2G is sluggish
  108. # [13:53] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1013006 from --- to FIXED.
  109. # [13:53] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1013006 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  110. # [13:53] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1013006 from --- to mozilla32.
  111. # [13:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1013006 nor, --, mozilla32, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] isFlatSubtree returns false when there is an ancestor with a click listener
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  123. # [15:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  124. # [15:27] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  125. # [15:33] * Joins: davidb (davidb@FCCEA34F.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
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  127. # [15:41] <@davidb> when it comes to patch reviews, when it rains it pours
  128. # [15:42] <@MarcoZ> Heyo davidb! :-)
  129. # [15:42] <@davidb> heyo!
  130. # [15:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Are you talking about surkov's cute little patch? :-D
  131. # [15:44] <@davidb> definitely included :)
  132. # [15:48] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Heh... I am just getting ready to put the latest m-c and Gaia onto my Flame. Lots of exciting stuff landed by yzen and eeejay last night!
  133. # [15:49] <@yzen> \o/
  134. # [15:49] <@MarcoZ> Like access to the status bar items, and an explore by touch speed improvement.
  135. # [15:49] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Care to answer the question regarding the "bluetootn on - active" string etc.?
  136. # [15:50] <@yzen> sure
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  138. # [16:01] <clown> hey davidb, FYI: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25851
  139. # [16:02] <@davidb> clown, thanks FYI https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25851#c3
  140. # [16:02] <@davidb> :)
  141. # [16:04] <@davidb> clown, BTW I spoke with Matt and ultimately we'd like to move the event removal ordering issue to ARIA 2.0
  142. # [16:04] <@davidb> (i can wait until next meeting if you'd rather discuss then)
  143. # [16:05] <clown> davidb, yes, let's take that up at the next meeting. Thanks for contacting Matt.
  144. # [16:05] <clown> Could you make a note in the issue/action about moving to the next version?
  145. # [16:05] <clown> Or, will you remember it for next week?
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  147. # [16:07] <@davidb> !seen surkov
  148. # [16:07] <@firebot> surkov was last seen 5 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes and 13 seconds ago, saying 'right' in #developers.
  149. # [16:07] <@davidb> clown, i'll remember
  150. # [16:08] <clown> cool, davidb
  151. # [16:15] * @davidb wishes he didn't look at the implementation of HyperTextAccessible::GetChildIndexAtOffset
  152. # [16:20] * clown waves at jhernandez (you're in this room too?)
  153. # [16:21] <tbsaunde> davidb: why? it looks like a fairly normal binary search
  154. # [16:22] <@davidb> tbsaunde, yes but not easy on my eyes
  155. # [16:23] * clown hands davidb a pair of sunglasses.
  156. # [16:25] <tbsaunde> davidb: try nsThreadUtils's nsRunnableMethod stuff then
  157. # [16:26] <tbsaunde> "deep in the heart of template land..."
  158. # [16:26] <@davidb> hate.
  159. # [16:27] <@davidb> we hang ourselves with lazy cleverness
  160. # [16:29] <@davidb> tbsaunde, i'm rusty, is it ok to static cast from unsigned to signed (of otherwise same type)?
  161. # [16:31] * @davidb hunts coffee
  162. # [16:33] <tbsaunde> davidb: I'd say its dubious / means there's a problem with your API somewhere
  163. # [16:34] <tbsaunde> but its kind of ok if you can prove the value is always in the range 0 INT32_MAX and not INT32_MAX UINT32_MAX
  164. # [16:34] <@davidb> yeah...
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  167. # [16:35] <@davidb> i'm sort of surprised if the compiler is happy
  168. # [16:36] <@davidb> tbsaunde in this case it is the length of a parent chain so we are probably ok :)
  169. # [16:36] <@MarcoZ> yzen_: Niiiiiice stuff re the status bar!
  170. # [16:36] <yzen_> MarcoZ you like :) ?
  171. # [16:36] <yzen_> just wait for the utility tray :)
  172. # [16:36] <@MarcoZ> yzen_: I definitely do!
  173. # [16:37] <tbsaunde> davidb: well it only is because you put the cast there
  174. # [16:37] * yzen_ is now known as yzen
  175. # [16:37] <@MarcoZ> yzen_: Any idea what might be going on when trying to unlock the phone's SIM card? There are a lot of rapid focus/VC changes happening as soon as that screen appears.
  176. # [16:37] <@davidb> tbsaunde, i thought the compiler would still complain about dangerous C++ style casts (but not C)
  177. # [16:37] * @davidb shrugs
  178. # [16:38] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Bug 1010195.
  179. # [16:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1010195 maj, P1, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Not possible to enter a SIM PIN on a FF OS phone
  180. # [16:38] <yzen> MarcoZ i saw the bug, i think, you opened, haven't looked at it as with master you i can't even see the sim card :*
  181. # [16:38] <yzen> :(
  182. # [16:39] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yeah you might need to update gonk. At least I had to last week.
  183. # [16:39] <yzen> MarcoZ oh btw which device ?
  184. # [16:39] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Talk to gerard_whateverhisNickIs in #gaia about it.
  185. # [16:40] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I saw it on the Flame.
  186. # [16:40] <yzen> huh, and the screen reader actually talks to you
  187. # [16:40] <yzen> ?
  188. # [16:40] <@MarcoZ> yzen: After I got that update from and input the Pico files.
  189. # [16:40] <@MarcoZ> The latter part should be fixed in Gonk now.
  190. # [16:43] <@MarcoZ> yzen: The Pico files should again be copied to the Gonk layer, but there are some other problems with the Flame when one wants to locally build it.
  191. # [16:43] <@MarcoZ> esp the Gonk layer, see bug 1004195.
  192. # [16:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1004195 nor, --, ---, jld, NEW, [Flame] Allow building and flashing kernel / boot.img
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  195. # [16:51] <@davidb> surkov, I have some questions but they might be better asked with a whiteboard in front of us. are you in tomorrow?
  196. # [16:52] <@surkov> davidb: yep
  197. # [16:52] <@davidb> ok cool - can you wait for review? surkov
  198. # [16:52] <@surkov> sure
  199. # [16:52] <@davidb> perfect
  200. # [16:52] <@surkov> take your time
  201. # [16:53] <@davidb> yep
  202. # [16:54] <@davidb> i'll probably submit the comments/questions i have today at some point
  203. # [16:54] <@davidb> but we can go over tomorrow
  204. # [17:06] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I just went outside to test the status bar icons a bit. :-) The indicator for how many bars there are on the mobile network, changes nicely depending on the connection condition.
  205. # [17:07] <yzen> that's great to hear :)
  206. # [17:07] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Question: Does FF OS have an icon in the status bar indicating whether the connection is 3G or 2G? I currently only see the number of bars, but not which data connection type is being used.
  207. # [17:07] * yzen looking
  208. # [17:09] <yzen> MarcoZ so if it's available based on the operator data it will be presented
  209. # [17:09] <yzen> but i will double check on the device once i can
  210. # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> yzen: OK!
  211. # [17:10] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Also, the battery indicator seems to be stuck at 90% for me ATM, whereas in the Settings app it shows a different value.
  212. # [17:11] <yzen> interesting, that one is probably does not get updated for some reason... as i recall i would get charging status reported and such, but ill try
  213. # [17:21] <yzen> btw MarcoZ , have you tried status bar and notifications icons ? for example when you get a text
  214. # [17:26] <@davidb> I could eat a horse
  215. # [17:30] <tbsaunde> davidb: me too
  216. # [17:30] <@davidb> tbsaunde, where can we get one?
  217. # [17:30] <tbsaunde> not sure
  218. # [17:30] <tbsaunde> at least one that won't be missed ;)
  219. # [17:31] <@MarcoZ> LOL!
  220. # [17:31] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Not yet.
  221. # [17:31] <@davidb> tbsaunde, so an RCMP horse is out
  222. # [17:31] <@MarcoZ> yzen: BTW the icon just got updated a few minutes ago, to 80%. Looks like if it's just a general indicator, not the actual percentage value, it only gets updated when one bar drops.
  223. # [17:32] <yzen> MarcoZ good to know, ya there's a custom event that the label and image updates with, i guess it has a 10% granularity
  224. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yeah and there was a setting in Battery settings that allows one to switch whether one wants to see percentages or graphical bars.
  225. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> And by default it's bars.
  226. # [17:39] <@davidb> tbsaunde, i'm thinking the afghan place, for non-horse.
  227. # [17:40] <@davidb> but i'm not really hankering for anything specific
  228. # [17:42] <tbsaunde> davidb: I could do that I guess
  229. # [17:43] <yzen> MarcoZ quick question, for form inputs when the actual label is non-desirable, aria-label should be fine, right ?
  230. # [17:44] <tbsaunde> davidb: now?
  231. # [17:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde i'll swing by in 2 mins
  232. # [17:47] * @davidb stands
  233. # [17:47] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  234. # [17:50] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yes.
  235. # [17:50] <yzen> MarcoZ cool
  236. # [17:50] <@MarcoZ> yzen: But what are the situations where an actual label is not provided? I mean how does a sighted person then know what to enter?
  237. # [17:50] <yzen> MarcoZ so in case where it looks like a search toolbar
  238. # [17:50] <yzen> so there's enough affordance
  239. # [17:51] <@MarcoZ> yzen: OK. Just thinking out loud here that not everybody might have the same idea what a search tool bar might look like. But yeah aria-label should be fine.
  240. # [17:52] <yzen> MarcoZ agree, there's also a placeholder that might be helpful
  241. # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yeah the placeholder is used if no other label is provided.
  242. # [17:56] * Quits: ioanachiorean (ioanachior@6DC7A5F5.AA1FA0D2.6A4F8DA2.IP) (Ping timeout)
  243. # [17:58] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  244. # [18:00] <yzen> MarcoZ so if there's already a place holder and it's input type search, the screen reader will say "search entry {placeholder value}", the label is still necessary you think ?
  245. # [18:00] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I don't think it is.
  246. # [18:00] <yzen> ok
  247. # [18:01] <@MarcoZ> yzen: BTW if I have an unread message, I get an icon label that says "1 unread notification".
  248. # [18:01] <yzen> \o/ sweeet
  249. # [18:01] <@MarcoZ> yzen: But I cannot do anything with it yet. neither double-tapping nor swiping down with 2 fingers does anything.
  250. # [18:01] <yzen> ya you would need an accessible utility tray for taht
  251. # [18:01] <yzen> that's coming :)
  252. # [18:01] <@MarcoZ> Yay!
  253. # [18:02] <yzen> btw MarcoZ , i was talking to eeejay about some swipe interactions (2 finger)
  254. # [18:02] <yzen> how would you know if you need to swipe at all?
  255. # [18:02] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I'm listening.
  256. # [18:02] <yzen> unless you hear an instruction
  257. # [18:03] <yzen> so for example
  258. # [18:03] <yzen> im adding a wheel event listener on status bar , so if you are focused on it or its icons and 2 finger swipe down you ll open a utility tray, but how would you know you can do that i dont know
  259. # [18:04] <yzen> and this is similar to a little hanger thingy at the bottom of utility tray that you need to double finger swipe up to close the tray
  260. # [18:04] <yzen> and same goes for sideway swipes to dismiss things in the utility tray
  261. # [18:05] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@D2069856.FE797095.222B27F0.IP) (Quit: 10-79 Notify coroner, over and out)
  262. # [18:07] <@MarcoZ> yzen: On iOS, you know how to do this because VoiceOver tells you so. On an iOS device, touch any status bar icon and wait a few seconds for the tutor message. It'll tell you to swipe down with 3 fingers to open notifications, and swipe up with 3 fingers to open Control center.
  263. # [18:07] <@MarcoZ> yzen: So we'd need something like accessibleDescription, but spoken at a bit of a delay.
  264. # [18:08] <@MarcoZ> yzen: That would be the hints that I'd prefer. Not directl connected to the chunk that speaks name and role etc., but something that speaks at a bit of a delay so you don't need to hear it if you don't want to.
  265. # [18:08] <@MarcoZ> I don't know if we have such an alternative accDescription thing in our NSIAccessible interface yet.
  266. # [18:10] <yzen> MarcoZ so in other words without it it's inaccessible
  267. # [18:12] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I wouldn't say so, just not documented.
  268. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Because it *works*, users just need to be made aware of it somehow.
  269. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> s/it/how it works/
  270. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> yzen: So if we put this out to beta testers and instruct them how to swipe with 2 fingers, they'll be able to use it.
  271. # [18:14] <@MarcoZ> yzen: But this kind of tutorial messages would be good to have anyway, since this will ease quick starters' entry point, they won't have to read much documentation to find their way around.
  272. # [18:15] <yzen> MarcoZ i wonder if there's an attribute or role missing like "swipeable"
  273. # [18:15] <yzen> brb
  274. # [18:16] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Heh, we already invented the "key" role for Firefox OS. Nothing to prevent us from inventing another one.
  275. # [18:17] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Or this could just be another aria state similar to aria-expanded. That would allow for the role of this thing to be whatever it needs to be.
  276. # [18:18] <@MarcoZ> Just aria-swipeable="true", and aria-swpiedirection="left, right, up, down" (an atomic list of directions) should do it.
  277. # [18:18] <@MarcoZ> aria-swipedirection
  278. # [18:27] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  282. # [18:41] <@yzen> MarcoZ ya exactly what i was thinking
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  284. # [18:48] <eeejay> hiya
  285. # [18:49] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  286. # [18:50] <@davidb> hi hi
  287. # [18:59] <@MarcoZ> Hi eeejay!
  288. # [18:59] <eeejay> MarcoZ, yo
  289. # [18:59] <@MarcoZ> LOL! The ZTE Open C is again a not-so-open ZTE.
  290. # [19:00] <@MarcoZ> Again a closed boot loader and you cannot execute adb root "on a production build".
  291. # [19:03] <tbsaunde> "where there's one way to run arbitrary code there's probably another" -- mjg59
  292. # [19:05] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Ping timeout)
  293. # [19:05] <eeejay> MarcoZ, did you get one?
  294. # [19:06] <@MarcoZ> yzYup. Figured out I'd support them and also get what devs and potential users are likely to get.
  295. # [19:06] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: ^
  296. # [19:06] <eeejay> MarcoZ, neat
  297. # [19:06] <eeejay> MarcoZ, is the hardware as nice as the flame?
  298. # [19:07] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yup it's much much better than the original ZTE Open hardware-wise.
  299. # [19:07] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: But the Flame is way better still.
  300. # [19:07] <eeejay> MarcoZ, i see
  301. # [19:07] <@MarcoZ> In terms of casing and screen etc.
  302. # [19:30] <@davidb> MarcoZ, long day? :)
  303. # [19:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah a bit.
  304. # [19:35] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
  305. # [19:38] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Thinking of making another video and show some of the nice things that recently landed in FF OS. Like the perf improvement, the status bar being accessible now etc.
  306. # [19:38] <@MarcoZ> Man I wish we had public nightlies, some of the power users could already play with this now!
  307. # [19:38] <eeejay> MarcoZ, sweet
  308. # [19:39] <eeejay> MarcoZ, I as well, want to make a very clean demo similar to apple's original video when voiceover came out
  309. # [19:40] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yeah. We still have some ways to go, primarily SMS, Contacts and E-Mail aren't working great yet, but I see you're already on top of this.
  310. # [19:42] <eeejay> MarcoZ, i am!
  311. # [19:50] <@davidb> this pleases me greatly.
  312. # [19:53] <@MarcoZ> OK, just flashed newest stuff onto the ZTE Open. Let's see if I can set up.
  313. # [20:01] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  314. # [20:06] * Quits: agibson|afk (agibson@moz-2C643250.gate.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: )
  315. # [20:17] <@MarcoZ> OK, off for the night. :-)
  316. # [20:17] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-81A8FDF7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Night!)
  317. # [20:17] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-C3EA2B28.cable.teksavvy.com)
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  319. # [20:18] <@yzen> eeejay any time now
  320. # [20:22] <eeejay> yzen, oops forgot
  321. # [20:22] * Joins: jnurthen (jnurthen@moz-15DF0CD.oracle.com)
  322. # [20:22] <eeejay> yzen, in a coffee shop. stepping out.
  323. # [20:23] * Quits: jamesn (jnurthen@moz-A29E5249.oracle.com) (Ping timeout)
  324. # [20:23] <eeejay> yzen, skype?
  325. # [20:23] <@yzen> sure
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  328. # [20:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde, you might have left the patch on bug 1011736 in limbo?
  329. # [20:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1011736 cri, --, ---, jwei, NEW, crash in mozilla::a11y::Accessible::Shutdown()
  330. # [20:52] <tbsaunde> davidb: not sure, sorted wanted to wait a little bit and see if Jonathan responds today
  331. # [20:52] <@davidb> ah ok
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  350. # [23:10] <@davidb> ok laters
  351. # [23:10] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-45E695EB.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
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  354. # Session Close: Thu May 22 00:00:00 2014

The end :)