/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-06-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jun 06 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  18. # [06:05] <firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Component on bug 697836 from Disability Access to Theme.
  19. # [06:05] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=697836 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Contrast between links and background not great enough in high contrast mode on Windows
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  26. # [12:16] <firebot> madamezou@zouish.org changed the Component on bug 1021028 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
  27. # [12:16] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1021028 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Regression: Orca can't read correctly Firefox >= 25
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  63. # [16:20] <slee> MarcoZ: I read a bit of Heydon's book for lunch. Very good. He even picks up on the cognitive failings of flat design early on!
  64. # [16:24] <@MarcoZ> slee: Yup! :)
  65. # [16:25] * @davidb ponders how to pose a question humbly
  66. # [16:25] <@davidb> does this book give you new insights?
  67. # [16:25] <@davidb> or do you two already know the material
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  70. # [16:30] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I already know most of the material, but it is still good to know it in case I'm being asked by web developers.
  71. # [16:31] <@MarcoZ> Like our colleagues or ones from the outside.
  72. # [16:31] <@davidb> ok that goes into the maybe i'll buy it column
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  75. # [16:38] <slee> davidb: so far nothing new , but good to read to consolidate and find new ways to explain to peeps.
  76. # [16:38] <@davidb> also good.
  77. # [16:38] <@davidb> is it organized well? good index etc?
  78. # [16:38] <slee> I guess it nice o have a fresh perspective
  79. # [16:39] <@davidb> is this something we should recommend to web devs?
  80. # [16:39] <@davidb> to read cover to cover
  81. # [16:39] <slee> dunno I just opened at the start and stopped when I got of the loo :) Oh, er, whoops
  82. # [16:39] <@davidb> ha ok
  83. # [16:47] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I think Christie Koehler requested that this be made available through Safari books mozilla-wide.
  84. # [16:48] <@davidb> ok
  85. # [16:48] <@davidb> MarcoZ, i was thinking more radically
  86. # [16:48] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Such as?
  87. # [16:48] <@davidb> if we find the right resource, i would like to gift it directly to people
  88. # [16:49] <@davidb> mid air collision :)
  89. # [16:49] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You mean paid by Mozilla for Mozillians?
  90. # [16:50] <@davidb> MarcoZ, well my gut reaction was to put hard copies on desks... but i didn't think farther than that
  91. # [16:50] <@davidb> with a note saying 'You will be tested on this date yadda yadda' :)
  92. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I don't even know if this is, or will be, available in hard-copy format.
  93. # [16:51] <@davidb> yeah
  94. # [16:51] <@davidb> ideally one day we'll have a mozilla a11y BPG
  95. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Right now when you purchase it, it is in epub, mobi, and pdf formats (all in one).
  96. # [16:52] <@davidb> or maybe jennison will create the synthesized universal version
  97. # [16:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ, yes i realize it is not hard copy i'm thinking more abstractly... about some resource and gifting it somehow
  98. # [16:52] <@davidb> but actually i'm reading something completely different now :)
  99. # [16:52] <@davidb> https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2014/06/05/how-to-develop-firefox-extension/
  100. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I think having this would be cool, for new employees.
  101. # [16:53] <@davidb> sounds like i should read it
  102. # [16:56] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  103. # [16:59] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  104. # [17:17] <slee> davidb: what is BPG?
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  106. # [17:17] <slee> I also rad the extension post - new options look so much easier now than overlays as I used for Maavis
  107. # [17:18] <@davidb> best practices guide
  108. # [17:18] <@davidb> yes much better :)
  109. # [17:18] <slee> davidb: ah - good idea
  110. # [17:18] <@davidb> we shouldn't force people to see our hairy underbelly
  111. # [17:20] <slee> ugh!
  112. # [17:20] <slee> As it's friday and I'm winding down - this is worth a listen (flash) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151617868962827
  113. # [17:21] * agibson|brb is now known as agibson
  114. # [17:24] <@davidb> i'm guessing the punchline...
  115. # [17:24] <@davidb> upside down?
  116. # [17:24] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 1020548 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  117. # [17:24] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1020548 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  118. # [17:24] <@davidb> heh yeah
  119. # [17:24] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1020548 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, update aria-orientation impl to ARIA 1.1
  120. # [17:25] <@davidb> slee too easy to guess :)
  121. # [17:26] <slee> Yeah - prolly a prank call
  122. # [17:26] * @MarcoZ is not really getting into this day at all. The whole day feels like it has been used already, is second-hand.
  123. # [17:26] <@MarcoZ> And it's now almost weekend. Long weekend btw, Monday's a public holiday in Germany.
  124. # [17:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ, I PMed you a little while ago :)
  125. # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Oops sorry! Just replied. :)
  126. # [17:29] <@davidb> all godo
  127. # [17:29] <@davidb> good :)
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  130. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Did I just read this correctly? Vivien wants eeejay to review the Gaia a11y patch? Interesting...
  131. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> (sneaky comment: One way to avoid having to learn a bit more about a11y.) :)
  132. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> s/sneaky/cheeky/
  133. # [17:33] <@yzen> MarcoZ yes , if it only touches markup though
  134. # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> yzen: This landing of the vertical home screen seems to really be causing some headaches, not just in a11y land. The Gaia mailing list thread is quite busy.
  135. # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> yzen: What is your general feeling, are Gaia devs more conscious about common a11y problems now, or is the work for you and eeejay still the same load with new stuff as it has always been?
  136. # [17:35] <@yzen> MarcoZ i think i will say that they are once i see at least one a11y review/feedback request
  137. # [17:36] <@MarcoZ> yzen: That was very diplomatic. :) So we're not yet pinged on new stuff that gets implemented yet. :(
  138. # [17:36] <@davidb> we could ask rob that whenever Ux is asked for sign off, to suggest us as well
  139. # [17:36] <@yzen> MarcoZ which brings me back to something eeejay mentioned - an a11y-review flag in bugzilla
  140. # [17:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes, we should be much more integrated than we are. Still feels like we're cleaning up after everybody else.
  141. # [17:36] <@davidb> yzen, for patches?
  142. # [17:37] <@davidb> the bug level one isn't used much
  143. # [17:37] <@yzen> davidb ya
  144. # [17:37] <@davidb> maybe we should ask to remove the bug level one at the same time then
  145. # [17:37] <@MarcoZ> davidb: The bug level one is hidden away quite nicely in the project flags. There must be one at patch level that stares people in the face I think.
  146. # [17:37] * @davidb nods
  147. # [17:37] <@yzen> MarcoZ yes
  148. # [17:37] <@yzen> MarcoZ but it is getting better
  149. # [17:38] <@yzen> at least people reviewing stuff get it on their radar
  150. # [17:38] <slee> MarcoZ: Add a11y audit into the work flow like other tests?
  151. # [17:38] <@MarcoZ> yzen: That's good to hear. I think especially Kevin is becoming quite receptive.
  152. # [17:38] <@davidb> yzen, want to file it? (you could clone bug 932857)
  153. # [17:38] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=932857 nor, --, ---, dkl, RESO FIXED, Create 'a11y-review' per-bug flag
  154. # [17:38] <@yzen> MarcoZ ya keving, alive, zac are very responsive
  155. # [17:38] <@yzen> s/keving/kevin
  156. # [17:38] <@MarcoZ> yzen: True!
  157. # [17:39] <@MarcoZ> slee: Yes. And feature-signoff only after it has been cleared by us.
  158. # [17:39] <slee> mwaahhahahaha!
  159. # [17:39] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Oh btw, any more thoughts about the dev tools question I raised last week?
  160. # [17:39] <slee> Seriously, +1
  161. # [17:39] <@davidb> MarcoZ, not yet.
  162. # [17:40] <@davidb> MarcoZ, don't let me slow you down though if you want to ask robcee about the bugs and if they are in some roadmap
  163. # [17:40] <@davidb> i've been waiting to bump into him
  164. # [17:40] <@yzen> davidb ok
  165. # [17:40] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You asked the question of the week...I think this is one of the things we really *need* to tackle. We could get an edge here that proves very valuable. And it would only be appropriate.
  166. # [17:41] <@davidb> MarcoZ, an email discussion would be great, b/c surkov may be interested in discussing
  167. # [17:41] <@davidb> get agreement on priorities
  168. # [17:43] <@davidb> my preference is for devtools to own those bugs
  169. # [17:43] * slee waves
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  171. # [17:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I just sent Rob mail, will loop you in once I get a reply.
  172. # [17:43] <@davidb> groovy
  173. # [17:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And yes, I think Dev Tools should own the bugs, and I'd be happy to provide feedback and suggested fixes. But like I did with mconnor the other week, they should own and implement the stuff.
  174. # [17:44] <@davidb> yes.
  175. # [17:47] <@yzen> davidb should i just ask for the flag for gaia ?
  176. # [17:48] <@davidb> you could say 'if easier just add for gaia for now, otherwise we could mirror the list in 932857'
  177. # [18:01] <@MarcoZ> Ah, should have looked here first, I just suggested on the bug to expand this to more products that have user-facing features.
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  179. # [18:04] <@MarcoZ> OK, off for the weekend. See you on Tuesday!
  180. # [18:05] <@davidb> yzen, we should probably fix the grammar 'This flag used' -> 'This flag is used'
  181. # [18:05] <@davidb> MarcoZ, enjoy!
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  183. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> Thanks, you too!
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  185. # [18:05] <@yzen> davidb yep
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  193. # [19:56] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 1020603 from Layout: Tables to Disability Access APIs.
  194. # [19:56] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1020603 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsIAccessibleTable::GetCellAt is broken for tables having display:block tbody
  195. # [19:59] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) on bug 1016545.
  196. # [19:59] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1016545 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, memory leak that kills Firefox in few seconds
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  201. # [20:44] <@yzen> eeejay re bug 1021708 - are you not able to bring up the keyboard or press on its keys ?
  202. # [20:44] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1021708 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, [Home2] Make search entry screen reader accessible.
  203. # [20:44] <eeejay> yzen, i type, but nothing happens in the search bar
  204. # [20:44] <eeejay> trying without screenreader
  205. # [20:45] <@yzen> simulator or device ?
  206. # [20:45] <eeejay> device
  207. # [20:45] <@yzen> are you connected to internets ?
  208. # [20:45] <eeejay> no :)
  209. # [20:46] <eeejay> yzen, but without the screenreader it works
  210. # [20:46] <eeejay> investigating further..
  211. # [20:46] <eeejay> rebased on a more recent master
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  213. # [20:47] <@yzen> eeejay for some reason i can't use the keyboard with screen reader
  214. # [20:49] <eeejay> yzen, just tested on a random input and it worked
  215. # [20:50] <@yzen> cool
  216. # [20:50] <eeejay> yzen, but what do you mean, "can't use the keyboard"? just with the search bar, or in general?
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  218. # [20:54] <@yzen> eeejay not all inputs , but sometimes (like in search) by keyboard keys dont get entered
  219. # [20:55] <eeejay> we should figure that out! perhaps a separate bug
  220. # [20:57] <eeejay> yzen, your search aria solution looks apt
  221. # [20:57] <@yzen> eeejay cool, it's only until the rocket bar though
  222. # [20:57] <@yzen> then it'll go away
  223. # [20:58] <eeejay> yeah, i like it
  224. # [20:59] <@yzen> cool
  225. # [21:04] <@yzen> eeejay bug 1021874 based on my issue ?
  226. # [21:04] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1021874 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Entering text in search entry does not work with screen reader
  227. # [21:04] <eeejay> yzen, yeah. you could reproduce that. no?
  228. # [21:05] <@yzen> ya
  229. # [21:05] <@yzen> thanks!
  230. # [21:11] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
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  236. # [21:44] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  237. # [21:45] <@yzen> davidb, eeejay so ill ask to not have any cc and same components as the per-bug flag ? ok with you ?
  238. # [21:47] <@davidb> i'm not sure what that means
  239. # [21:50] <@yzen> davidb for the per-attachement a11y-review flag, i want to re-confirm on the bug: the list of components that have that flag - same as for per-bug flag; list of cc'ed people: 0 (as per eeejay's comment)
  240. # [21:51] <@davidb> ah ok sure
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  247. # [22:24] <@yzen> eeejay
  248. # [22:25] <@yzen> im a little worried, i see an increasing number of a11y gaiaui tests failures that happen when we make a call to accessibility.click . My guess is that we can't retrieve an accessible in time..
  249. # [22:25] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  250. # [22:26] <@yzen> first bug 1021710 and now i even see failures on Travis, for unlock to homescreen tests
  251. # [22:26] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1021710 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, [UITests] Intermittent Failure on Travis: TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | test_a11y_utility_tray_notification
  252. # [22:27] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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  257. # [23:03] <eeejay> yzen, yeah. that sucks
  258. # [23:03] <eeejay> the whole getAccessible routine is ridiculous.
  259. # [23:05] <@yzen> eeejay right, what i did in the failing tests is I m using wait for condition for the element to be a11y visible, before i click on it, but I m guessing it might still fail with after marionette's default timeout
  260. # [23:05] <eeejay> yeah
  261. # [23:05] * Quits: scottgonzalez (scott_gonz@8E9F6B58.CC0B5A80.814EB5F8.IP) (Quit: scottgonzalez)
  262. # [23:06] <@yzen> eeejay so i started looking at the keyboard issue and it looks like im only getting mousemove events in the keyboard.js , i dont actually get the starting touch event :(
  263. # [23:06] <@yzen> that's one the phone btw
  264. # [23:06] <@yzen> but then i m trying other inputs (in contacts for example) and they seem to work
  265. # [23:07] <eeejay> yzen, hm
  266. # [23:07] * eeejay compiles b2g gecko
  267. # [23:09] <@yzen> eeejay yeah i should update too
  268. # [23:12] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Ping timeout)
  269. # [23:26] <firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 1020510.
  270. # [23:26] <firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1020510 from --- to FIXED.
  271. # [23:26] <firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1020510 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  272. # [23:26] <firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1020510 from --- to mozilla32.
  273. # [23:27] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1020510 nor, --, mozilla32, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, let tbody/etc accessible in table hierarchy
  274. # [23:30] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net)
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  277. # Session Close: Sat Jun 07 00:00:00 2014

The end :)