/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-06-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 12 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:00] * Joins: satdav (David@moz-286C7472.cable.virginm.net)
  4. # [00:03] <satdav> tbsaunde, Hi I was wondering if you can tell me if the new etherpad is easier for ally
  5. # [00:03] <satdav> http://pad.paas.allizom.org/
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  13. # [01:04] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com requested needinfo from eitan@monotonous. org on bug 1021874.
  14. # [01:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1021874 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] B2G keyboard does not work when entry in same process is focused
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  20. # [01:13] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled needinfo?(eitan@monotonous. org) on bug 1021874.
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  24. # [03:49] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1021874 from --- to FIXED.
  25. # [03:49] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1021874 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  26. # [03:49] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1021874 from --- to mozilla33.
  27. # [03:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1021874 nor, --, mozilla33, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] B2G keyboard does not work when entry in same process is focused
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  89. # [14:55] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Hi!
  90. # [14:55] <@surkov> hey, MarcoZ!
  91. # [14:56] <@MarcoZ> I don't quite understand your last comment in bug 670083. I thought I had explained why I changed the approach, since I needed to compare the name to the description anyway. So I decided to not go with that new eName flag after all.
  92. # [14:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670083 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, expose placeholder as description if wasn't used as name
  93. # [14:56] <@surkov> ah, then I misread you
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  95. # [14:56] <@surkov> MarcoZ: so you can do ignore nameFlag at all (even in case of tooltip)
  96. # [14:56] <@MarcoZ> surkov: This patch makes sure that current behavior is not changed, e. g. placeholder will be compared and not used for descriptio if it is already used as the label. Same for eNameFromTooltip as before.
  97. # [14:57] <@MarcoZ> But other scenarios remain unchanged.
  98. # [14:57] <@surkov> so all you do is Description() { bla bla; if (aDescr.Equals(Name)) then reutnr empty string
  99. # [14:57] <@MarcoZ> surkov: So should I get rid of the name flags alltogether?
  100. # [14:57] <@surkov> nah, your patch doesn’t make sure that placeholder was used because it filters the case <input aria-label=“hello” placeholder=“hello”>
  101. # [14:58] <@surkov> MarcoZ: first of all let’s figure out if we need description duping name?
  102. # [14:58] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Yikes...This is so complicated...
  103. # [14:58] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I think description shold never duplicate the name.
  104. # [14:59] <@surkov> that’s my feeling as well
  105. # [14:59] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Because if it does, screen readers will read it twice upon focus.
  106. # [15:00] <@surkov> then it makes sense to fit our alg
  107. # [15:02] <@MarcoZ> surkov: So what do I do?
  108. # [15:03] <@surkov> I think we can go with comparing name and description
  109. # [15:03] <@MarcoZ> surkov: And what about the flags?
  110. # [15:03] <@surkov> and then we should try to get some public feedback
  111. # [15:03] <@surkov> if we don’t need them then we can get rid them
  112. # [15:04] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I will play around with this some more, then. And add some more tests to cover the scenarios.
  113. # [15:04] <@surkov> ok
  114. # [15:04] <@surkov> cool
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  121. # [15:46] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it seems like we shouldn’t go with string comparing approach
  122. # [15:46] <@surkov> since it’s different issue and it’s not so unambigious and evident
  123. # [15:47] <@surkov> at least SteveF doesn’t support that
  124. # [15:49] <SteveF> i would support supression of duplicate strings though :-) example <img alt="xy" title="xy">
  125. # [15:51] <@surkov> SteveF: then I misread you
  126. # [15:51] <SteveF> surkov: maybe i misread you
  127. # [15:51] <SteveF> or we both misread
  128. # [15:51] <@surkov> yeah
  129. # [15:52] <@surkov> I meant if description equals to name then expose description as empty string
  130. # [15:52] <@surkov> equals as string
  131. # [15:52] <SteveF> yes i agree with that
  132. # [15:52] <@surkov> ok
  133. # [15:52] <SteveF> FWIW :-)
  134. # [15:53] <SteveF> some AT do this
  135. # [15:55] <@surkov> SteveF: how should make sure that ARIA spec address that
  136. # [15:55] <@surkov> that is part of ARIA, no?
  137. # [15:56] <SteveF> could be, file bug to get it added to name calc algorithm i guess
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  141. # [16:08] <@surkov> SteveF: do you have a link on hand?
  142. # [16:10] <SteveF> surkov: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=ARIA
  143. # [16:11] <@surkov> thx!
  144. # [16:15] <@MarcoZ> SteveF: surkov: Yes we would do that "heavy-lifting" for the assistive technologies, AccessFu among others, since we deal with that stuff anyway.
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  146. # [16:26] <SteveF> marco 'heavy lifter' zehe
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  148. # [16:49] <@davidb> heyo
  149. # [16:49] * @davidb waves to SteveF
  150. # [16:50] * SteveF hey davo
  151. # [17:02] <@davidb> MarcoZ, what can you tell me about the control based new mac a11y API?
  152. # [17:02] <@davidb> or is there a blog brewing
  153. # [17:02] <@davidb> RTFM is an acceptable response here
  154. # [17:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: No, there is not. Basically, what Apple do in Yosemite is require a control's class to implement certain methods, and each control has its own protocol, AKA, interface.
  155. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: For example, a button must implement the method that returns the label, and implement a method that performs the button's Press action.
  156. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: A checkbox has a press action method, too, a label, the states property etc.
  157. # [17:05] <@davidb> this doesn't sound... groundbreaking
  158. # [17:05] <@davidb> is there some new way of enforcing proper implementation?
  159. # [17:06] <@MarcoZ> davidb: With standard controls that are already using the new Cocoa kit, only a few properties need be implemented.
  160. # [17:06] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  161. # [17:06] <@MarcoZ> davidb: The compiler warns the developer which of the methods for any given sub class are missing, if any.
  162. # [17:06] <@davidb> ah hmm i don't think MS went that far
  163. # [17:07] <@davidb> so stubs are not available
  164. # [17:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: It's not in that sense groundbreaking, but in the past, you only had the NSAccessibility protocl., and you could virtually implement all or any or none of properties/methods for a view sub class, and the compiler would not complain. And it would also not complain if something essential for a specific type was missing.
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  166. # [17:08] <@MarcoZ> davidb: They greatly simplified everything for Yosemite. Much closer to what iOS has in fact.
  167. # [17:08] <@MarcoZ> Oh, stubs are available, basically if you just sub class a button, you just need to implement its label property for VoiceOver, all the rest is done for you.
  168. # [17:09] <@davidb> well i mean no-op stubs but i get you
  169. # [17:09] <@davidb> ok thanks
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  172. # [17:15] <@davidb> firebot, you awake?
  173. # [17:15] <@firebot> davidb: Sorry, I've no idea what 'you awake' might be.
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  176. # [17:36] <@tbsaunde> davidb: are you suprised Apple is try to sell old things as new?
  177. # [17:37] <@davidb> ha! no kidding.
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  179. # [17:42] <@davidb> bug 12345
  180. # [17:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12345 nor, P1, M11, jefft, VERI FIXED, [DOGFOOD] Unable to Forward a message received as an Inline page or an attachment
  181. # [17:42] <@davidb> so that works
  182. # [17:44] <@tbsaunde> I could eat a moose
  183. # [17:44] <@davidb> mmmm moose
  184. # [17:44] <@davidb> i have a lunch date
  185. # [17:45] <@davidb> MarcoZ, surkov, tbsaunde, eeejay, yzen, etc do we want firebot to send bug updates into this channel again? like new bugs etc?
  186. # [17:45] <@davidb> anyone know why he stopped?
  187. # [17:45] <@yzen> i like that yeah
  188. # [17:45] <@davidb> review requests etc
  189. # [17:45] <@surkov> that was good feature
  190. # [17:47] <@davidb> oh
  191. # [17:47] <@davidb> maybe i am expecting gaia a11y bug updates but the bot only know about core->Disability Access APIs
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  193. # [17:48] <@davidb> hmmm yeah
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  196. # [17:53] * @davidb files bug 1024544
  197. # [17:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1024544 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, expand firebot accessibility related bug notifications in #accessibility
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  207. # [19:11] <@firebot> wjohnston@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 1019432 from nobody@mozilla.org to wjohnston@mozilla.com.
  208. # [19:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1019432 nor, --, ---, wjohnston, NEW, [AccessFu] Zooming doesn't work with TalkBack enabled
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  229. # [21:35] <@firebot> New Core - Keyboard: Navigation bug 1024684 filed by archaeopteryx@coole-files.de.
  230. # [21:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1024684 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Inconsistent accelerators for keyboard shortcuts in content preferences (Shift vs. Shift + Alt)
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  255. # Session Close: Fri Jun 13 00:00:00 2014

The end :)