/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-07-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jul 08 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  37. # [10:45] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  38. # [10:46] <@MarcoZ> Hi athena! Congratulations on the landed patches! Great work! :)
  39. # [10:53] <athena> thanks! and thanks for all your advice :)
  40. # [10:54] <@MarcoZ> athena: You're very welcome! Looking at your patch for bug 977262 now.
  41. # [10:54] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/977262 — ASSIGNED, athena — [a11y] Toolbox toolbar tabs showing as text
  42. # [11:07] <athena> thanks!
  43. # [11:08] <athena> I haven't been able to figure out why aria-selected isn't doing anything when I test. another voiceover + firefox thing?
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  47. # [11:16] <@MarcoZ> athena: Again, this may be due to the incomplete implementation of NSAccessibility in Firefox for Mac, or an incomplete support of aria-selected on the VoiceOver end, or both. Most likely the former.
  48. # [11:16] <@MarcoZ> athena: What's the use case?
  49. # [11:17] <athena> MarcoZ: thanks. In this case, I was just trying to confirm the behavior in the patch before I sent it in
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  51. # [11:18] <@MarcoZ> athena: Yeah I know, the incomplete support doesn't make debugging easier.
  52. # [11:19] <@MarcoZ> However, if you inspect the element and find that aria-selected was set with the correct value, you can be pretty sure it will work. Or use the DOM Inspector extension to verify, too.
  53. # [11:19] <athena> MarcoZ: hehe no. I'm glad it's much better on Windows at least
  54. # [11:20] <@MarcoZ> athena: Yup! :) Mac is just so completely different from Windows and Linux accessibility APIs that a lot of extra work is required, and someone who is very knowledgeable and skilled in Mac programming. We currently lack the resources in this area to do it ourselves.
  55. # [11:20] <athena> MarcoZ: good point. it'll at least catch cases where nothing's being set because of a typo
  56. # [11:20] <@MarcoZ> Yup :)
  57. # [11:21] <athena> MarcoZ: I'm actually very curious to see what needs to be done. I doubt that I have the skills to be useful for that right now, but it's something I've been thinking about
  58. # [11:27] <@MarcoZ> athena: Well if you know Objective-C, you're already a good portion there.
  59. # [11:28] <@MarcoZ> The work consists mostly of a) interpreting Apple's NSAccessibility protocol right, b) sniffing out what Safari exposes in certain circumstances using Accessibility Inspector, because Apple hardly document it all, and c) reimplementing and rebuilding that in the OS X platform layer for accessibility.
  60. # [11:33] <athena> why would you need to know objective-C? is that only to be able to poke through Apple's NSAccessibility protocol and documentation properly?
  61. # [11:37] <@MarcoZ> athena: No, the platform layer this low level is implemented in C++, and the Mac bits are in Objective-C.
  62. # [11:38] <athena> MarcoZ: ahhh that makes sense. I knew about C++ for the rest of the system, but I hadn't realized how separate the mac bits are
  63. # [11:43] <@MarcoZ> athena: It's all in the folder Accessible/Mac if you're interested. ;)
  64. # [11:44] <athena> MarcoZ: hah thanks ;) I'm still doing dayjob stuff, but I've got that folder marked now to look at later
  65. # [11:45] <@MarcoZ> athena: In terms of impact, the contributions you're making to the Firefox dev tools accessibility have the higher impact. There are more users of Firefox on Windows and Linux who rely on screen readers than there are on OS X. So these improvements you're making will help these people a lot!
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  80. # [15:12] <@MarcoZ> Morning yzen!
  81. # [15:12] <@yzen> MarcoZ hi
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  83. # [15:33] <@yzen> MarcoZ have you seen isfirefoxosaccessibleyet.com ? we are getting there :)
  84. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Haven't looked lately.
  85. # [15:37] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Ouch, what markup are you inserting there? These things that count the bugs are showing up as select size greater than 1 items! This is not good.
  86. # [15:37] <@MarcoZ> So, they are listboxes, not actual ol or ul lists.
  87. # [15:38] <@yzen> MarcoZ hmm i tried with accessfu
  88. # [15:38] <@MarcoZ> yzen: On the desktop, these don't look right.
  89. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> yzen: And this is what people will most likely use to look at the page.
  90. # [15:39] <@yzen> MarcoZ ya i guess this shoudl not be listbox but it will probably change as eeejay added some stuff
  91. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Noooo, listbox is definitely not the right way to go here. :)
  92. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> An ul or ol, but not a select, and notht eh ARIA equivalents of those either.
  93. # [15:40] <@MarcoZ> so if ARIA, list, not listbox.
  94. # [15:40] <@yzen> MarcoZ roger
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  102. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> Heyo davidb!
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  104. # [15:59] <@davidb> hi hi
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  118. # [17:48] <@eeejay> yzen, what do you think?
  119. # [17:48] <@eeejay> yzen, MarcoZ, yeah. i have been romving aria roles from the site, and trying to stick to a regular document structure.
  120. # [17:49] <@yzen> eeejay pretty good, i was wondering about the rank number?
  121. # [17:49] <@eeejay> It would be given by MarcoZ, or whoever tests it
  122. # [17:49] <@eeejay> we could come up with a criteria
  123. # [17:50] <@yzen> oh ok
  124. # [17:50] <@eeejay> yzen, the comment section should be a verbal comment about the accessibility state, right?
  125. # [17:50] <@yzen> yes, that's the idea
  126. # [17:51] <@eeejay> yzen, the overview section could have a condensed list of components/scores
  127. # [17:52] <@eeejay> yzen, the component sections should get an id of the component (ie. #homescreen instead og .homescreen
  128. # [17:52] <@yzen> eeejay ya ill change that
  129. # [17:52] <@eeejay> and then the list in the overview could be links to each section
  130. # [17:53] <@yzen> we should probably open some issues in the repo
  131. # [17:53] <@eeejay> yzen, should i merge my changes?
  132. # [17:53] <@eeejay> ok
  133. # [17:55] <@davidb> surkov, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1454, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1455, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1456
  134. # [17:55] <@yzen> eeejay maybe a pull and we ll cherry pick things out of it ?
  135. # [17:56] <@yzen> eeejay i just wanted to clean up some styling if that's ok ?
  136. # [17:56] <@eeejay> yzen, sure, go ahead
  137. # [17:56] <@yzen> ok ill grab your branch then
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  144. # [18:15] <@tbsaunde> davidb: surkov lunch?
  145. # [18:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde, i saw surkov go already. i'm skipping lunch today.
  146. # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> ack
  147. # [18:18] <@davidb> well i might go for carrots and celery or something
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  151. # [18:35] <@eeejay> yzen, also, i think with desktop it should be fixed width columns, and have it be responsive for mobile and be 100% for it
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  168. # [20:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde, e10s is targeting FF34 which will be trunk on July 21
  169. # [20:14] <@davidb> we'll need some way of buying time
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  171. # [20:16] * @davidb emails blassey
  172. # [20:30] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh huh
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  177. # [21:18] <@davidb> surkov, what do you think of the "MUST NOT" in 5.4.5 rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html
  178. # [21:19] <@surkov> davidb: I don’t see anything bad in it. Should I?
  179. # [21:19] <@davidb> surkov, well we'd need to remove our BSTR hack
  180. # [21:19] <@surkov> but it’s not MUST NOT
  181. # [21:20] <@surkov> it’s MUST
  182. # [21:20] <@davidb> surkov, lol
  183. # [21:20] <@surkov> you’re about MSAA
  184. # [21:20] <@davidb> yes
  185. # [21:20] <@surkov> I would replace it on should not
  186. # [21:20] <@surkov> since at least one implementation does so :)
  187. # [21:21] <@davidb> surkov, you'd be okay with "SHOULD NOT" then?
  188. # [21:21] <@davidb> (i have a patch to remove the BSTR hack)
  189. # [21:21] <@surkov> davidb: yep
  190. # [21:21] <@davidb> ok thanks
  191. # [21:21] <@surkov> davidb: I know :)
  192. # [21:21] <@davidb> :)
  193. # [21:22] <@surkov> that BSTR thing is like longdesc stuff :)
  194. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> I haven't read sb yet, but I'm pretty sure bjacob's geomtry lesson was more interesting ;)
  195. # [21:40] <@tbsaunde> well, I guess longdesc was actually the worst of it so not too bad
  196. # [21:41] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  197. # [21:42] <@davidb> bug 1034640 has a testcase
  198. # [21:42] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1034640 — NEW — crash in nsAccessibilityService::CreateAccessibleByFrameType(nsIFrame*, nsIContent*, mozilla::a11y::
  199. # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah I've been meaning to look, but its probably just some of the table stuff not thinking about some crazy edge case
  200. # [21:54] <@davidb> tbsaunde, please do assign yourself if you dig in
  201. # [21:59] <@tbsaunde> I haven't yet, the OOM thing seems more important
  202. # [22:01] <@davidb> ok
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  210. # [22:21] <@davidb> surkov, janina sent along her congrast on your IA2 role
  211. # [22:21] <@davidb> "congrats"
  212. # [22:22] <@surkov> thanks
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  214. # [22:50] * clown also congrats to surkov
  215. # [22:50] <@surkov> thanks!
  216. # [22:50] <clown> and perhaps sympathy?
  217. # [22:50] <@surkov> :)
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The end :)