/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-07-24 / end

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  64. # [11:15] <@firebot> evilpies@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 1013744 from mconley@mozilla.com to evilpies@gmail.com.
  65. # [11:15] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1013744 — FIXED, evilpies — [e10s] Can't open Web Console using CMD+OPT+K and CMD+OPT+I keyboard shortcuts in e10s
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  81. # [14:39] <@davidb> Gijs, I don't really have context for bug 1042163, where do these indicators appear?
  82. # [14:39] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1042163 — ASSIGNED, florian — Visual issues with the global indicator for screen/device sharing
  83. # [14:39] <Gijs> davidb: right, so
  84. # [14:40] <Gijs> davidb: because we're working on adding screen sharing capabilities to webrtc (in addition to the existing microphone/camera sharing) we needed a way to show the user that their screen/microphone/camera are being shared that was outside the Firefox window
  85. # [14:40] <Gijs> (currently it's just a doorhanger off the URL bar)
  86. # [14:41] <@davidb> I want webrtc to be super accessibility obviously
  87. # [14:41] <Gijs> davidb: so now we open this small (roughly 30x120) always-on-top indicator window
  88. # [14:41] <Gijs> right
  89. # [14:41] <@davidb> I see.
  90. # [14:41] <Gijs> it's basically centered at the top of the screen, although we're meant to make it draggable across the top of the screen only
  91. # [14:42] <Gijs> it's window-frame-less, and doesn't show up in the alt-tab order on Windows
  92. # [14:42] <Gijs> which is, um, great for mouse users!
  93. # [14:42] <Gijs> :(
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  95. # [14:44] <@davidb> ok, supposing we absolutely have to put something on the screen that sighted keyboard users can only look at longingly, what is the way a sighted keyboard user accesses the same functionality?
  96. # [14:44] <Gijs> davidb: what do keyboard users currently do for the webrtc button?
  97. # [14:44] <Gijs> that's a toolbar button
  98. # [14:44] <Gijs> so also not keyboard focusable, I don't think
  99. # [14:45] * Gijs hadn't really looked at webrtc before being pulled into this project :(
  100. # [14:45] <@davidb> it didn't occur to me that we were building UI in-house already
  101. # [14:45] <Gijs> davidb: or, to ask another question, how do keyboard users use any of the URL bar doorhangers?
  102. # [14:45] <@davidb> it's complicated
  103. # [14:45] * Gijs seems to recall they have been a thorn in our side for a while now
  104. # [14:45] <Gijs> :(
  105. # [14:46] <@davidb> e.g. bug 972117
  106. # [14:46] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/972117 — NEW — [Meta] Doorhangers: don't auto focus, include in f6 key order
  107. # [14:46] <Gijs> yeah
  108. # [14:46] <@davidb> Will be at a meetup with Jamie in Aug.
  109. # [14:46] <Gijs> davidb: is there a way to manually open/focus them once they're closed?
  110. # [14:46] <Gijs> Good.
  111. # [14:46] <@davidb> i don't know of one
  112. # [14:47] <Gijs> davidb: AFAIK the "regular" in-Firefox doorhangers are currently the only way of controlling webrtc
  113. # [14:47] <Gijs> the global indicator just focuses the Firefox window and drops down the doorhanger
  114. # [14:47] <Gijs> if you're sharing on multiple tabs, it has a dropdown with all the tabs that you're sharing on, and clicking an item does ^^
  115. # [14:48] <Gijs> (dropdown as in regular old menupopup)
  116. # [14:48] <@davidb> could we have a hot key
  117. # [14:48] <@davidb> ?
  118. # [14:48] <Gijs> for opening the doorhanger?
  119. # [14:48] <@davidb> yes
  120. # [14:48] <Gijs> sure, although you'd have to fight for 33 uplift with the l10n people. :(
  121. # [14:49] <@davidb> well let's figure out the right solution and figure out the branch stuff later
  122. # [14:49] <Gijs> davidb: sounds good. Keep in mind that the hot key would be only inside Firefox
  123. # [14:49] <Gijs> as I just noted on the bug, I don't think we can do global hotkeys anywhere
  124. # [14:49] <@davidb> Gijs http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-ca/library/windows/desktop/ms646309%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
  125. # [14:50] <Gijs> davidb: yes, but http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=registerhotkey
  126. # [14:50] <@davidb> heh
  127. # [14:50] <Gijs> davidb: I think we should file 2 followup bugs for a11y
  128. # [14:51] <Gijs> (for the general project here, not this specific bug)
  129. # [14:51] <Gijs> 1) make those doorhangers keyboard-openable in some way
  130. # [14:51] <Gijs> (which really should have been done a long time ago)
  131. # [14:51] <@davidb> how does a mouse user open a doorhanger?
  132. # [14:51] <Gijs> 2) offer some keyboard-accessible alternative for the global indicator's list/focusing/selecting of tabs which share "stuff"
  133. # [14:52] <Gijs> (or a way to just use the indicator, I don't mind)
  134. # [14:52] <Gijs> click the video/microphone/screen icon that shows in the location bar
  135. # [14:52] <Gijs> davidb: you can do a quick test on current nightly with e.g. http://queze.net/goinfre/ff_gum_test.html
  136. # [14:53] <@davidb> so this would be specific to webrtc doorhangers right?
  137. # [14:53] <@davidb> Gijs, looks kb accessible to me
  138. # [14:54] <Gijs> davidb: oh, really? So how do I focus those things with the keyboard?
  139. # [14:54] <@davidb> Gijs, tab navigation
  140. # [14:54] <Gijs> oh, hm, I can shift-tab to them?
  141. # [14:54] <Gijs> from the location bar?
  142. # [14:54] <@davidb> Gijs, what OS are you on?
  143. # [14:54] <Gijs> OK.
  144. # [14:55] <Gijs> Mac, but yeah, wfm
  145. # [14:55] <Gijs> OK
  146. # [14:55] <@davidb> ok
  147. # [14:55] <Gijs> so we have (1) fixed (disregarding the general malaise with these doorhangers for now)
  148. # [14:55] <Gijs> the only thing the global indicator adds here is a persistent notification, even if you're currently on another tab or in another program/window
  149. # [14:56] <@davidb> ok
  150. # [14:56] <@davidb> that is better than nothing
  151. # [14:57] <@davidb> so where are we?
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  154. # [14:57] <@davidb> all i've ever tested is in-page demos
  155. # [15:03] <@davidb> Gijs, do we know those indicators are not in the tab order?
  156. # [15:05] <Gijs> davidb: not sure what you mean... which indicators?
  157. # [15:05] <@davidb> Gijs, the ones in the bug
  158. # [15:05] <Gijs> davidb: it's a separate always-on-top frameless window
  159. # [15:05] <@davidb> ah right ok
  160. # [15:05] <Gijs> davidb: so the question is not so much the tab order as to "how do I even focus this window"
  161. # [15:06] <@davidb> Gijs, so I think I can + this bug with a note about you filing follow ups. Does that sound reasonable?
  162. # [15:06] <Gijs> davidb: it might be interesting to see what happens in other such cases, like toast notifications with links, or the global indicator used by other programs like Skype
  163. # [15:06] * @davidb nods
  164. # [15:06] <Gijs> davidb: plural still? I thought we decided we didn't need the first of my proposals, just the second :)
  165. # [15:07] <Gijs> but yes, I can file a followup.
  166. # [15:07] <@davidb> one thing i've had trouble accessing is Mac's full screen yes/no dialog
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  168. # [15:07] <@davidb> ok
  169. # [15:09] <@davidb> and thanks.
  170. # [15:10] <@davidb> for thinking of us and reaching out. always appreciated.
  171. # [15:10] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  172. # [15:13] <Gijs> welcome - just wish I'd flagged this up earlier... :(
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  178. # [15:50] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 1043372 filed by gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com.
  179. # [15:50] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1043372 — NEW — Figure out keyboard-accessible alternative for the webrtc global indicator
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  183. # [16:11] <@davidb> Gijs, next time.
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  211. # [19:06] <athena> is there anything similar to OSX's Accessibility Inspector on Windows?
  212. # [19:07] <@davidb> yes... links coming
  213. # [19:07] <@davidb> athena, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd318521%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
  214. # [19:08] <@davidb> and http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yweb/util/accprobe/
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  216. # [19:08] <athena> fantastic, thank yo!
  217. # [19:08] <@davidb> you're welcome
  218. # [19:08] <@davidb> athena, oh and http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/aviewer/
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  220. # [19:09] <@davidb> the author of the last one is usually in channel here
  221. # [19:09] <@davidb> (stevef)
  222. # [19:10] <athena> haha I should have just looked right ath the paciello group first -- thansk
  223. # [19:10] <@davidb> :)
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  226. # [19:16] <@davidb> eeejay, yzen, ever seen this before? http://patrickhlauke.github.io/touch/tests/results/
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  229. # [19:19] <@davidb> i guess i'm curious if patrick ever contacted you/us
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  233. # [19:40] <@yzen> davidb interesting haven't seen it, reading now
  234. # [19:41] <@yzen> but i see similar things :)
  235. # [19:41] <@davidb> heh
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  240. # [20:02] <eeejay> yzen, joining?
  241. # [20:02] <@yzen> eeejay there
  242. # [20:02] <eeejay> yzen, were are in peter's room
  243. # [20:02] <@yzen> oh ok i m in a11y one sec
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  250. # [20:14] <yash_> firebot: !seen eeejay
  251. # [20:14] <@firebot> eeejay was last seen 11 minutes and 50 seconds ago, saying 'yzen, were are in peter's room' in #accessibility.
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  255. # [20:44] <eeejay> yash_, whats up?
  256. # [20:44] <yash_> eeejay: Hey
  257. # [20:44] <yash_> I just submitted the new patch, rebased on the head
  258. # [20:44] <eeejay> yash_, did you figure out the build warnings?
  259. # [20:45] <yash_> I didn't get those warnings on my system, but I think were due to extra some headers being included in sapiservice.h, due to which some macros were being redefined
  260. # [20:46] <yash_> I have removed them
  261. # [20:46] <yash_> the warnings should be gone now
  262. # [20:47] <yash_> eeejay: when would you try the new patch?
  263. # [20:48] <eeejay> yash_, i'm going to apply it, and sent it to try
  264. # [20:49] <yash_> eeejay: ok
  265. # [20:50] <yash_> eeejay: I tested chrome also, as we discussed, its not concurrent, you can start in one window and cancel/pause that from the other,
  266. # [20:51] <eeejay> yeah
  267. # [20:52] <eeejay> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=feb4887d6df2
  268. # [20:52] <eeejay> lunch
  269. # [20:52] <yash_> eeejay: ok
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  279. # [21:35] <yash_> eeejay: I can't figure out, why it's giving the same error on try
  280. # [21:36] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  281. # [21:44] <yash_> eeejay: btw, which windows do you have ?
  282. # [21:46] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
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  284. # [22:01] <eeejay> yash_, why don't you ask on #windev what is going on with that..
  285. # [22:01] <yash_> eeejay: sure
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  291. # [22:19] <eeejay> yzen, yo?
  292. # [22:19] <@yzen> eeejay hi
  293. # [22:19] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  294. # [22:19] <eeejay> yzen, so the sounds still happen on the gecko end?
  295. # [22:20] <@yzen> eeejay yes. i m not sure if it's necessary on android
  296. # [22:20] <@yzen> eeejay also i will open a follow up to move sounds to gaia anyways
  297. # [22:20] <@yzen> eeejay since then it should be possible to handle the volume correctly in gaia
  298. # [22:21] <eeejay> yzen, so there would be to separate chrome events? one for earcons and one for speech?
  299. # [22:22] <@yzen> eeejay no i was thinking it will all be part of the smae event
  300. # [22:22] <eeejay> yzen, but you made them separate presenters
  301. # [22:25] <@yzen> eeejay oh right, well i guess it could be (specifically in terms of android). i guess i would have to change the stuff is presented for gaia
  302. # [22:31] <eeejay> yzen, i see some parity now between android and b2g
  303. # [22:31] <eeejay> yzen, both need their "platform presenters"
  304. # [22:31] <eeejay> yzen, in android you send some random data that talkback makes sense of
  305. # [22:32] <eeejay> yzen, here we would send data that gaia makes sense of
  306. # [22:32] <eeejay> yzen, some stuff is common (at least for now) like the highlight presenter
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  312. # [22:42] <eeejay> yzen, yo
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  316. # [22:54] <@yzen> eeejay right so should we do it as a follow up or as part of the l10n bug ?
  317. # [22:55] <eeejay> eeejay, i think as part of this.
  318. # [22:55] <eeejay> yzen, i have 3 thoughts about this patch
  319. # [22:55] <eeejay> 1. it is hard to read with the jslint :P could you make that a preliminary patch?
  320. # [22:56] <@yzen> ya i can do that
  321. # [22:57] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  322. # [22:58] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  323. # [22:59] <eeejay> 2. i think localization should get out of OutputGenerator entirely, it is confusing to have it both there and in presenter
  324. # [22:59] <eeejay> 3. yeah, sorry i said otherwise before, but i think we need to think of a "protocol" format of the data we throw at gaia
  325. # [22:59] <eeejay> and gaia should do speech/earcon/haptic and do a native gaia toaster for announcements
  326. # [22:59] <eeejay> i think the fields would be:
  327. # [22:59] <eeejay> 1. output-type: that would be things like vc-change, state-change, text-change, announcement, etc
  328. # [22:59] <eeejay> and then gaia would determine what earcon it gets, if it gets haptic, etc.
  329. # [23:00] <eeejay> the special case would be announcement, it would trigger a toaster, which in turn would send another liveregion change event
  330. # [23:04] <@yzen> eeejay right so that's the idea
  331. # [23:04] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  332. # [23:04] <@yzen> im a little confused what you mean about l10n in OutputGenerator, afaik, there's nothing there any more
  333. # [23:08] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  334. # [23:08] <eeejay> hm
  335. # [23:12] <@yzen> eeejay ok let me split the patch from linting , it will be easier to read
  336. # [23:12] <eeejay> yzen, also. i have second thoughts about the data format..
  337. # [23:13] <eeejay> yzen, meybe it is worth having the gaia end as dumb as possible so that we have more control in our own module
  338. # [23:13] <eeejay> yzen, don't want to ask for review from gaia devs when we want to change the haptic feedback
  339. # [23:14] <eeejay> yzen, the l10n in the generator is the _addLocalized{State,Role}
  340. # [23:15] <eeejay> yzen, at the end of the day (this could be done in one patch), we should have 3 presenters: Visual, Android, B2G
  341. # [23:15] <eeejay> And the Visual could one day go away
  342. # [23:15] <@yzen> eeejay right that's an old name, ill update
  343. # [23:16] <@yzen> eeejay ok ill update the pr with more changes
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  345. # [23:18] <eeejay> pr, haha
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  350. # [23:43] <yash_> eeejay: I have added fixes for the windows and b2g, should I upload the new version?
  351. # [23:45] * Quits: Justin_o (uid14648@moz-E77DEB21.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  352. # [23:45] <eeejay> yash_, yes
  353. # [23:46] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-2459255C.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  354. # [23:54] <yash_> eeejay: done
  355. # [23:58] <eeejay> yash_, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=8a3d81f703fa
  356. # Session Close: Fri Jul 25 00:00:00 2014

The end :)