/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-08-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Aug 13 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  7. # [00:32] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1052866 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
  8. # [00:32] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052866 — NEW — Expose IAccessibleText on tables, rows, etc.
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  10. # [00:58] <guigs21> hey is this the right channel to ask about an accessibility bug: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1014398
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  14. # [01:18] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1052903 filed by rmcguigan@mozilla.com.
  15. # [01:18] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052903 — NEW — 4.2 and 4.4 Talkback does not work in dropdown html elements
  16. # [01:25] <@MarcoZ> guigs21: I just replied with a request for some more exact steps. :)
  17. # [01:26] <guigs21> awesome, I could not get it to work in a drop down element, but could in the suggestions from the url bar, I hope they have more info :-)
  18. # [01:26] <guigs21> thank you MarcoZ
  19. # [01:27] <@MarcoZ> guigs21: FYI, I'm part of "they", meaning the Moz accessibility team. ;)
  20. # [01:27] <@MarcoZ> guigs21: On the web, no autocomplete is like the other, so it is important to know which web site you went to, what you entered etc.
  21. # [01:28] <guigs21> MarcoZ, it is a pleasure to meet you. ah, I can understand the ambiguity there
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  30. # Session Close: Wed Aug 13 01:49:29 2014
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  32. # Session Start: Wed Aug 13 01:49:29 2014
  33. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  37. # [01:50] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://is.gd/93saA4'
  38. # [01:50] * Set by davidb on Tue Aug 05 15:36:31
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  63. # [05:51] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053021 filed by yzenevich@mozilla.com.
  64. # [05:51] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053021 — NEW, yzenevich — [AccessFu] Speed up gesture intervals. Enable a configurable responsiveness to user gestures.
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  133. # [15:44] <Jamie> eeejay: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/5961813
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  144. # [15:59] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Hi! Who is responsible for treeherder?
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  146. # [16:02] <@davidb> MarcoZ, oh good is treeherder on your list?
  147. # [16:02] <@davidb> for a11y review
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  149. # [16:13] <@davidb> Jamie, the meta bug is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=972117
  150. # [16:13] <@firebot> Bug 972117 — NEW — [Meta] Doorhangers: don't auto focus, include in f6 key order
  151. # [16:24] <Gijs> davidb: not sure, but jgraham might know?
  152. # [16:24] <Gijs> err
  153. # [16:24] <Gijs> MarcoZ: ^^
  154. # [16:24] <joanie> tbsaunde: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Tools/WebKitTestRunner/InjectedBundle?order=name
  155. # [16:25] <joanie> That will show you how WebKit handles the problem of testing the platform a11y APIs
  156. # [16:25] <joanie> but without having to create an AT
  157. # [16:31] <joanie> Also: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Tools/TestWebKitAPI?order=name
  158. # [16:32] <@davidb> Gijs: Jamie and MarcoZ are surrounding me about bug 653226... i hope you guys can fit it into the next iteration :)
  159. # [16:32] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/653226 — NEW — Improve keyboard accessibility of type="menu-button" buttons
  160. # [16:34] <joanie> Cross platform tests live here: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests/accessibility
  161. # [16:35] <joanie> Lastly, example of platform-specific a11y tests are here: http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests/platform/gtk/accessibility
  162. # [16:36] <Gijs> davidb: MarcoZ: requested info from the UX team
  163. # [16:37] <Gijs> davidb: MarcoZ: personally, I don't think the "pretend it's a menu button" suggestion is workable for mouse users, and I don't know how weird it is to do something else for keyboard users than for mouse users
  164. # [16:37] <Gijs> MarcoZ: for Neil's example in Windows, what do screenreaders do with that shutdown button? Is there no msaa role that covers those kinds of "split buttons" ?
  165. # [16:38] * Gijs kind of suspects screen readers just treat it as "special", also because it's the start menu and not an app? :(
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  167. # [16:43] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1016545 from --- to FIXED.
  168. # [16:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1016545 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  169. # [16:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1016545 from --- to mozilla34.
  170. # [16:44] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1016545 — FIXED, trev.saunders — memory leak that kills Firefox in few seconds
  171. # [16:46] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: As I point out in the bug, the split button implementations at Microsoft's end are inconsistent, and that's the mildest description I can think of.
  172. # [16:46] <@MarcoZ> The least diplomatic is: They suck big deal.
  173. # [16:46] <Jamie> That said, there *is* a split button role
  174. # [16:47] <Jamie> I'm still not convinced we can't convince the world that split buttons aren't evil by doing it right (TM) :)
  175. # [16:47] <Jamie> Correction: there's a split button role in Windows, but probably not ATK (Linux) or Mac
  176. # [16:47] <Gijs> Jamie: NS_ERROR_NEGATIONS_OVERLOAD
  177. # [16:48] <Gijs> not convinced can't convince aren't evil?
  178. # [16:48] <Gijs> Jamie: what do you mean? :)
  179. # [16:48] <Jamie> Gijs: :) sorry
  180. # [16:48] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: For example: The one on the start menu is anounced as a Split Button sub menu. Problem is: Blind users probably will hardly see it since they always use Alt+F4 from the desktop and get a completely different UX.
  181. # [16:48] <Gijs> no worries, I just... tried to parse that and then my brain broke.
  182. # [16:48] <Jamie> Gijs: I disagree with this. I never use alt+f4 from the desktop
  183. # [16:48] <Jamie> err
  184. # [16:48] <Jamie> last was for Marco
  185. # [16:49] <Jamie> Gijs: I meant: I reckon it might be possible to convince the world that split buttons aren't so evil by doing it right (TM)
  186. # [16:49] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: OK, this was for Windows 7. Windows 8 gets rid of the announcement of role and sub menu status alltogether and just says "Shut down" or something.
  187. # [16:50] <Gijs> Jamie: I see. For Firefox, the lack of ATK and Mac support is going to be problematic...
  188. # [16:50] <Jamie> joanie: does ATK have a split button role?
  189. # [16:50] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: And there are split buttons in Windows Explorer which are announced completely differently than the one on the start menu. I am talking about the column headers.
  190. # [16:50] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I don't see any split buttons on Win8, so the announcement is correct, I think.
  191. # [16:50] <joanie> Jamie: I don't think so, but lemme look
  192. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> There is no split button in ARIA.
  193. # [16:51] <Gijs> (in fact, I don't see any start menu, so I'm not sure where you're looking - I was talking about the context menu on the windows icon on the bottom left)
  194. # [16:51] <Gijs> (and yes, I'm on Windows 8.1 - I don't really understand what people meant by "the start menu is back" :| )
  195. # [16:51] <joanie> Jamie: we do not
  196. # [16:52] <Gijs> MarcoZ: so how are the column headers announced in explorer?
  197. # [16:53] * Gijs kind of assumes 2 separate buttons
  198. # [16:53] <Gijs> (or elements, anyway)
  199. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> "Name split button collapsed". Gijs
  200. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> Whereas on the Windows 7 start menu, it's "Shutdown split button sub menu".
  201. # [16:54] <Gijs> MarcoZ: delightful.
  202. # [16:54] <Gijs> (when my British-induced sarcasm gets annoying, please let me know)
  203. # [16:54] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: No problem at all!
  204. # [16:54] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: I feel the same. I just think a menu button is the road of least resistance. ;)
  205. # [16:54] <Jamie> I think all accessibility people have a healthy dose of sarcasm. Mine's possibly unhlealthy...
  206. # [16:55] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Oh and we can do onclick and oncommand and stuff in XUL, can't we?
  207. # [16:55] <@MarcoZ> So we can have different mouse and keyboard behavior for these different things. We already have two click targets on that widget anyway.
  208. # [16:56] <Gijs> MarcoZ: sure, we can do different behaviour, but it'd be... unusual.
  209. # [16:57] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I'm not really sure how this compares to what Neil's patch implements, and what UX thinks of all this
  210. # [16:57] <Gijs> MarcoZ: just trying to mediate and keep this flowing/going so finally we agree on doing <whatever> and then implement it
  211. # [16:58] <Gijs> MarcoZ: afaict the only difference with what Neil is suggesting is that you don't want <space> to activate the default action, you want it to open the menu, is that right?
  212. # [16:58] <Gijs> (ditto for the access key)
  213. # [16:58] <Gijs> (and for this to work, you'd need to ensure the default action is also in the dropdown)
  214. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Right.
  215. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: And remove the extraneous tabstop.
  216. # [16:59] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I thought Neil's plan involved 1 tabstop, too?
  217. # [16:59] * Gijs looks again
  218. # [16:59] <Gijs> MarcoZ: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226#c14
  219. # [16:59] <@firebot> Bug 653226 — NEW — Improve keyboard accessibility of type="menu-button" buttons
  220. # [16:59] <Gijs> This patch: - removes the inner button from the tab order
  221. # [16:59] <Gijs> so I would assume there's only 1 tabstop left.
  222. # [17:00] <Jamie> davidb: any idea where the comment is concerning the fact that f6 works on Mac but not Windows?
  223. # [17:00] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Well, I guess the big question would be: How do we expose this as a split button, if we go that route, and not as a menu button? Because a menu button clearly indicates that any of space, enter, down arrow opens the menu and doesn't perform the default action when pressing the Space bar.
  224. # [17:01] <Gijs> Jamie: I think I wrote something like that... somewhere...
  225. # [17:01] <Gijs> Jamie: the meta bug should help you find it?
  226. # [17:02] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I think Neil might be on board with the plan to have different keyboard/mouse interaction, see his last comment just now. :)
  227. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: The problem with split buttons is not only that they're not available on Mac and Linux, but also that Windows alone has at least 3 different ways to open the menu. Start menu has Right Arrow, The Paste split button in WordPad has Alt+DownArrow, and I saw at least one other where it was only DownArrow.
  228. # [17:06] <Gijs> MarcoZ: the ribbon buttons are accessible?!
  229. # [17:06] * Gijs thought toolbar buttons generally weren't
  230. # [17:08] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Yes, they were made accessible in Office quite a while ago, and the Ribbons have always worked with the keyboard.
  231. # [17:08] <@MarcoZ> Microsoft even implements them using WAI-ARIA in their MS Office Online piece.
  232. # [17:09] <Jamie> davidb, MarcoZ, Gijs: Um... Davidb suggested I file a new bug for the f6 tab order thing, but that seems to be being discussed in bug 990045 and there's a need info request concerning it. Is opening a new bug just going to confuse things?
  233. # [17:09] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/990045 — NEW — Don't Auto-focus the Save Password prompt
  234. # [17:09] <@davidb> probably
  235. # [17:09] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  236. # [17:09] <Jamie> having said that, ribbons are different in every single application that implements them...
  237. # [17:09] <Gijs> Jamie: yeah, I'd leave that discussion in that bug, if that's OK.
  238. # [17:10] <Jamie> Gijs: sure. just confusing because the bug doesn't note that in its summary. I'll just comment on the metabug and reference the comments so we don't lose it
  239. # [17:10] <Gijs> Jamie: sounds good
  240. # [17:11] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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  244. # [17:20] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053247 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  245. # [17:20] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053247 — NEW — [AccessFu] content integration test does not fully run
  246. # [17:22] * Joins: guigs2 (Adium@moz-8C0B17A0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  247. # [17:24] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053248 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  248. # [17:24] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053248 — NEW — [AccessFu] Add new debug domain for gestures
  249. # [17:27] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053250 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  250. # [17:27] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053250 — NEW — [AccessFu] When automoving to a remote iframe, preserve its current vc position if it has one
  251. # [17:28] <@davidb> eeejay, surkov, MarcoZ, joanie, tbsaunde, yzen, Jamie, choose one of these and let me know https://pastebin.mozilla.org/5963048
  252. # [17:29] <@yzen> davidb white anchovy for me
  253. # [17:30] <@davidb> if you prefer html the menu is here ossington.pizzerialibretto.com/menu
  254. # [17:30] <@eeejay> davidb, marinara. thanks!
  255. # [17:30] <@surkov> davidb: any works for me
  256. # [17:31] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Cacciatore Salami, Tomato, Basil, Mozzarella, Herbs .....
  257. # [17:32] <@davidb> surkov, duck?
  258. # [17:32] <@surkov> davidb: yep, never tried it in pizza
  259. # [17:32] <@davidb> ok
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  262. # [17:39] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  263. # [17:46] <Jamie> davidb: Cacciatore Salami
  264. # [17:46] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  265. # [17:57] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
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  267. # [18:00] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  268. # [18:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You were asking about treeherder earlier. I just tried this with a try push I saw in bug 1043372. And I see it uses belovid clickables that could just as well be buttons, but aren't. CC Gijs
  269. # [18:04] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1043372 — ASSIGNED, gijskruitbosch+bugs — Figure out keyboard-accessible alternative for the webrtc global indicator
  270. # [18:05] <@davidb> MarcoZ, yeah it looks like someone wanted a lot of control of the visuals... aria likely needed
  271. # [18:07] <@davidb> MarcoZ, i think it is clint's group but not sure who specifically
  272. # [18:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So yeah that's what I think, too. I just wanna know who I can send http://www.marcozehe.de/2013/04/24/easy-aria-tip-6-making-clickables-accessible/
  273. # [18:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Clint Talbert?
  274. # [18:07] <@davidb> yeah
  275. # [18:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Cool!
  276. # [18:08] <@davidb> MarcoZ, if filing use https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Tree%20Management&component=Treeherder
  277. # [18:10] <joanie> Jamie: https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkText.html#AtkTextAttribute
  278. # [18:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Done, cc'd you.
  279. # [18:12] <@davidb> woot!
  280. # [18:12] <@davidb> MarcoZ, 44 seconds later it is marked P1
  281. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> Wow!
  282. # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> joanie: tbpl.mozilla.org and I'll come explain what to look at
  283. # [18:18] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  284. # [18:21] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  285. # [18:23] <Jamie> MarcoZ: http://community.nvda-project.org/log?rev=next&verbose=full
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  287. # [18:29] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  288. # [18:33] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: The "Font fix" sub chapter on https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/Flame
  289. # [18:48] <@tbsaunde> joanie: actually the text attribute patch I mentioned is in the tree bug 938197
  290. # [18:48] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/938197 — FIXED, trev.saunders — [ATK Accessibility] AtkTextAttributes derived names should be used on AtkText methods get_run/defaul
  291. # [18:57] * Quits: ioanachiorean_ (ioanachior@6DC7A5F5.AA1FA0D2.6A4F8DA2.IP) (Ping timeout)
  292. # [19:08] <joanie> ok, this pizza is doubleplus awesome. I'm glad I'm having lunch. Thanks mozilla and davidb. :)
  293. # [19:08] <@davidb> yay!
  294. # [19:08] * Quits: slee (chatzilla@moz-F3E9DB28.gotadsl.co.uk) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0/20140731191115])
  295. # [19:10] <@davidb> thank yzen for choosing the place
  296. # [19:10] <@davidb> and biking couriering
  297. # [19:10] <@yzen> :)
  298. # [19:12] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  299. # [19:13] <@firebot> rmcguigan@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1052903 from --- to INVALID.
  300. # [19:13] <@firebot> rmcguigan@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1052903 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  301. # [19:13] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052903 — INVALID — 4.2 and 4.4 Talkback does not work in dropdown html elements
  302. # [19:25] <@davidb> MarcoZ, want to meet with me at 2?
  303. # [19:25] <@davidb> (this morning escaped us)
  304. # [19:28] * Quits: jongund (chatzilla@moz-FE12876D.dres.uiuc.edu) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446])
  305. # [19:31] <Jamie> The pizza was indeed awesome. :)
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  307. # [20:00] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
  308. # [20:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: have you started looking at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1052525 ?
  309. # [20:02] <@firebot> Bug 1052525 — NEW — atk_text_get_text_at_offset sometimes returns the previous line instead of the line at offset
  310. # [20:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not yet but it looks close to bug 1052504
  311. # [20:03] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052504 — NEW — atk_text_get_text_at_offset sometimes returns an empty line instead of the line at offset
  312. # [20:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: there problem was is TreeWalker navigates into container while it should start navigation after container
  313. # [20:04] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ah, working on fixing it?
  314. # [20:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde, not yet
  315. # [20:04] <@surkov> probably I should
  316. # [20:05] <@surkov> I need to finish review of your patch about treeWalker
  317. # [20:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov: you can now review my patch first ;)
  318. # [20:05] <@surkov> yeah :)
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  326. # [21:16] <@MarcoZ> yzen: https://intranet.mozilla.org/QA/B2G_Tips_and_Tricks#Flashing_PVT_Builds
  327. # [21:16] <@MarcoZ> LDAP credentials.
  328. # [21:17] * Joins: slee (chatzilla@moz-F3E9DB28.gotadsl.co.uk)
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  331. # [21:39] <@davidb> eeejay, moztrap seems to be the new litmus
  332. # [21:39] <@davidb> (... https://moztrap.mozilla.org/manage/cases/?)
  333. # [21:39] <@eeejay> yeah, saw that
  334. # [21:39] <@davidb> takes a lot of drilling down to actually see a test
  335. # [21:39] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: bug 924915
  336. # [21:39] <@eeejay> funny how we didn't know that
  337. # [21:39] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/924915 — NEW — Significant lag with high cpu changing selection when arrowing over mail folders with many messages
  338. # [21:39] <@davidb> eeejay, oh i knew it and forgot
  339. # [21:39] <@davidb> it has actually become a thing since i first looked into it
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  342. # [21:43] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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  349. # [21:49] <Jamie> MarcoZ: bug 648504
  350. # [21:49] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/648504 — NEW — Alt-key access to pull-down Menu Bar menus does not work in full-screen mode
  351. # [21:49] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  352. # [21:52] <Jamie> MarcoZ: bug 563909
  353. # [21:52] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/563909 — NEW — [meta] Add-Ons Manager redesign keyboard navigation bugs
  354. # [21:54] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested needinfo from gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com on bug 648504.
  355. # [21:59] <@davidb> eeejay, MarcoZ, surkov, tbsaunde, yzen, Jamie, joanie, so to recap from earlier chat, tonight is free for whatever, no formal plan... i'll probably stick around and grab a smallish dinner and a beer or two. not necessarily in that order.
  356. # [21:59] <joanie> :)
  357. # [21:59] * Jamie nods
  358. # [21:59] <joanie> I'm uber full, but my kidneys may have room ;)
  359. # [21:59] <@eeejay> davidb, you may do a small beer, and then dinner
  360. # [22:00] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested needinfo from bmcbride@mozilla.com on bug 580537.
  361. # [22:00] <@davidb> eeejay, not likely
  362. # [22:00] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 580537 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  363. # [22:00] <Jamie> davidb: err, oops, weren't we going to do the aria 1.1 talk after lunch?
  364. # [22:00] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/580537 — NEW — Set useful initial focus in Add-ons Manager
  365. # [22:00] <@davidb> Jamie, yes but more important conversations seemed to be happening
  366. # [22:00] <Jamie> :)
  367. # [22:01] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com granted firefox-backlog on bug 648504.
  368. # [22:01] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com) on bug 648504.
  369. # [22:02] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/648504 — NEW — Alt-key access to pull-down Menu Bar menus does not work in full-screen mode
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  377. # [22:35] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 1053430 filed by giles@mozilla.com.
  378. # [22:35] * Parts: @yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (leaving... bye!)
  379. # [22:35] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053430 — NEW — Twitter breaks cmd-t to open a new tab
  380. # [22:36] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
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  382. # [22:42] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  383. # [22:42] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  384. # [22:43] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  385. # [23:04] <@davidb> oh good
  386. # [23:04] <@davidb> i hit that bug today ^
  387. # [23:06] * Gijs goes to dupe
  388. # [23:08] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1053430 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  389. # [23:08] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1053430 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  390. # [23:08] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053430 — DUPLICATE — Twitter breaks cmd-t to open a new tab
  391. # [23:09] <Gijs> (it is a sad old bug)
  392. # [23:18] <@davidb> oh
  393. # [23:19] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053462 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  394. # [23:19] * Quits: Justin_o (uid14648@moz-E77DEB21.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  395. # [23:19] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053462 — NEW — Add fromUserInput field to pivot move events and move methods
  396. # [23:24] <Jamie> surkov, joanie, tbsaunde: Updated text interface change proposal: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/TextInterface.Next
  397. # [23:24] <@surkov> thanks!
  398. # [23:25] <@surkov> i’ve got some beer though ;)
  399. # [23:26] <@davidb> that will help
  400. # [23:26] <Jamie> oops, just made one more tiny (but significant) update
  401. # [23:27] <Jamie> and, uh, I forgot something else... damn it
  402. # [23:28] <@surkov> Jamie: what for are compare methods()?
  403. # [23:30] <Jamie> surkov: Many use cases; e.g. working out whether the caret has moved when events aren't being used for some reason, working out whether one is at the start or the document/line/paragraph, ...
  404. # [23:30] <Jamie> surkov: working out whether the selection has grown larger or smaller and in which direction
  405. # [23:30] <Jamie> surkov: possibly need to update use cases :)
  406. # [23:31] <@surkov> Jamie, yeah, please :) something that’s evident for you not really evident for me :)
  407. # [23:31] <Jamie> surkov: right now, we do this by just comparing offsets and, if necessary, indexAtParent and ancestor traversal (ugly)
  408. # [23:31] <@surkov> especially when I’m accompanied by beer :)
  409. # [23:31] * Jamie grins
  410. # [23:33] <@surkov> Jamie: same about setEndPoint, btw, when I get text range for selection and then change it then should selection be chagned too?
  411. # [23:34] <@surkov> or textRange is unrelated concept
  412. # [23:34] <@surkov> and you should do something like setSelection(textRange)
  413. # [23:34] <Jamie> TextRAnges should be independent unless select() is called
  414. # [23:34] <@surkov> I see
  415. # [23:34] <@davidb> surkov, beer doesn't help? http://xkcd.com/323/
  416. # [23:34] <Jamie> this allows me to walk around the document without affecting caret/selection
  417. # [23:35] <@surkov> davidb: maybe I passed the top already or it’s still ahead :)
  418. # [23:35] <Jamie> I'll add this as a use case too; i.e. review of the document without affecting the caret/selection
  419. # [23:35] <@davidb> surkov, yeah, takes practice to get it right
  420. # [23:35] <@surkov> :)
  421. # [23:35] <@surkov> maybe I need mentor here :)
  422. # [23:36] <Jamie> tbsaunde: surkov: btw, we were talking about IAccessibleEditableText the other day. Gecko does indeed implement this... but at least right now, copyToClipboard, etc. do... a whole load of nothing
  423. # [23:36] <@davidb> :)
  424. # [23:36] <@surkov> Jamie: really? I supposed it’s working
  425. # [23:37] <@surkov> :)
  426. # [23:37] <@surkov> but I’ve got impression that editableText is sort of mistake
  427. # [23:37] <@davidb> yeah the copy stuff never worked IIRC
  428. # [23:37] <Jamie> Mick is pretty sure he recalls that Aaron said it was only implemented to satisfy some check or other, but that it actually didn't do anything useful. Of course, a lot ahs changed since Aaron left
  429. # [23:37] <@surkov> hm, I missed that somehow
  430. # [23:37] <@surkov> yeah but probably not in this area
  431. # [23:38] <@surkov> I didn’t really touch it beucase I believed nobody uses it
  432. # [23:38] <Jamie> And really important point... Sider is good
  433. # [23:38] <@surkov> except some orca bugs of course
  434. # [23:39] <Jamie> Well, it might actually be useful, e.g. to copy text including formatting to the clipboard. It's very difficult for a blind user to select text unless they use... hahaha... caret navigation (eh eh Joanie)?
  435. # [23:40] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: yeah we certainly have code that tries to do something, and istr a test
  436. # [23:41] <@davidb> hmm yeah http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/tests/mochitest/editabletext/test_2.html?force=1#26
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  441. # Session Close: Thu Aug 14 00:00:01 2014

The end :)