/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-08-14 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu Aug 14 00:00:01 2014
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [00:15] <@davidb> eeejay, do we have a user guide for the FFOS screenreader?
- # [00:16] <@eeejay> davidb, we should do it this weekk
- # [00:16] <@davidb> heh
- # [00:18] <@eeejay> davidb, that is kind of what we were thinking for comms talk
- # [00:18] * @davidb nods
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- # [03:22] <Jamie> joanie: haha. still hacking?
- # [03:26] <joanie> sorta
- # [03:26] <joanie> about to get booze
- # [03:26] <joanie> showing Trev the holy hand grenade of antioch on youtube first
- # [03:26] <joanie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk
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- # [03:34] <Jamie> hahaha
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- # [05:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hey :)
- # [05:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hey :)
- # [05:19] <@surkov> karaoke? :)
- # [05:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: nah, just doing a little more work
- # [05:20] <@surkov> I see
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- # [06:48] <@firebot> lmandel@mozilla.com requested needinfo from marco.zehe@googlemail.com on bug 1045518.
- # [06:48] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1045518 — NEW — Bad performance degradation with NVDA under Windows XP in FF 32
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- # [09:43] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1053021 from --- to FIXED.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1053021 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1053021 from --- to mozilla34.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053021 — FIXED, yzenevich — [AccessFu] Speed up gesture intervals. Enable a configurable responsiveness to user gestures.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 1052000 from nobody@mozilla.org to trev.saunders@gmail.com.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1052000 from --- to FIXED.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1052000 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1052000 from --- to mozilla34.
- # [09:44] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052000 — FIXED, trev.saunders — atk_text_get_text_at_offset sometimes returns more than one line when asking for the line at offset
- # [09:58] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1043372 from --- to FIXED.
- # [09:58] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1043372 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [09:58] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1043372 from --- to Firefox 34.
- # [09:58] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1043372 — FIXED, gijskruitbosch+bugs — Figure out keyboard-accessible alternative for the webrtc global indicator
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- # [15:12] <Jamie> MarcoZ: mention
- # [15:12] <@yzen> MarcoZ
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- # [15:13] <Jamie> yzen: ha ha, beat you
- # [15:13] <@yzen> :)
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- # [15:20] <@MarcoZ> Jamie2: Seeing you!
- # [15:27] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053765 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [15:27] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053765 — NEW — Putting role="log" on a table tag breaks row and cell accessibles.
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- # [15:30] <@davidb> surkov, are you sort of driving bug 1001634?
- # [15:30] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1001634 — NEW, jwei — Add MathMLAccessible class
- # [15:30] <@surkov> I”m trying
- # [15:30] <@surkov> but don’t spend much time on it
- # [15:30] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com cancelled needinfo?(marco.zehe@googlemail.com) on bug 1045518.
- # [15:31] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1045518 — NEW — Bad performance degradation with NVDA under Windows XP in FF 32
- # [15:31] * @davidb nods
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- # [15:35] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 1053248 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [15:35] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053248 — NEW, eitan — [AccessFu] Add new debug domain for gestures
- # [15:35] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 1053247 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [15:35] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053247 — NEW, eitan — [AccessFu] content integration test does not fully run
- # [15:36] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 1053250 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [15:36] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053250 — NEW, eitan — [AccessFu] When automoving to a remote iframe, preserve its current vc position if it has one
- # [15:43] <@firebot> lmandel@mozilla.com requested needinfo from marco.zehe@googlemail.com on bug 1045518.
- # [15:43] <@firebot> lmandel@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1045518 from --- to FIXED.
- # [15:43] <@firebot> lmandel@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1045518 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [15:43] <@firebot> lmandel@mozilla.com set status-firefox32 to wontfix on bug 1045518.
- # [15:43] <@firebot> lmandel@mozilla.com set status-firefox33 to fixed on bug 1045518.
- # [15:43] <@firebot> lmandel@mozilla.com set status-firefox34 to fixed on bug 1045518.
- # [15:43] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1045518 — FIXED — Bad performance degradation with NVDA under Windows XP in FF 32
- # [15:44] <@yzen> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/gPp0mS1XV0
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- # [16:41] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com cancelled needinfo?(marco.zehe@googlemail.com) on bug 1045518.
- # [16:41] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1045518 — FIXED — Bad performance degradation with NVDA under Windows XP in FF 32
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- # [17:09] <@davidb> thoughts on lunch (for later)?
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- # [17:15] <Jamie> davidb: food of some description?
- # [17:15] * Jamie is just so helpful
- # [17:15] <@davidb> oh, good idea
- # [17:18] <@davidb> maybe http://www.pamier-kabob.com/menu.php ?
- # [17:18] <@davidb> or banh mi again
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- # [17:18] <@davidb> or people could venture out
- # [17:19] <@davidb> together or fractured
- # [17:19] <@davidb> something tells me i shouldn't suggest too many options to this group
- # [17:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: there's the middle easern place just past ban mi
- # [17:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde, the pita place?
- # [17:23] <@tbsaunde> ya
- # [17:23] <@davidb> do you recall the name?
- # [17:23] <@tbsaunde> nack
- # [17:24] <@davidb> well how about pamier kabob?
- # [17:24] <@davidb> people want to throw me orders?
- # [17:25] <@davidb> oh wait a minute!
- # [17:25] <@surkov> davidb: http://www.ambereuropeanrestaurant.com/ :)
- # [17:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not really excited, but if its what people want I'll deal
- # [17:26] <@davidb> lunch is rarely exciting
- # [17:27] <@tbsaunde> you know what I mean ;p
- # [17:30] <@davidb> surkov: http://www.hungarythai.com/hungarian_main_courses.php
- # [17:30] <@surkov> davidb: yeah, hungarian must be pretty close too
- # [17:31] <@surkov> other option http://kavkaz.ca/ (pretty close to my home :) )
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- # [17:32] <@surkov> but that hungarian is walkable which is good
- # [17:32] <@davidb> yum
- # [17:32] <@surkov> just sort of bit strange to see hungarian and tai in one box :)
- # [17:32] <@davidb> the hungarian place gets mixed reviews
- # [17:33] <@davidb> we could try it for lunch one day
- # [17:33] <@davidb> (not this week necessarily)
- # [17:34] <@surkov> yeah
- # [17:34] <@surkov> for today there’s a season hit http://pravdavodkabar.com/ :)
- # [17:35] <@surkov> it’s even enough to read teh site name
- # [17:35] <@davidb> heheh
- # [17:35] <@davidb> this is really close right?
- # [17:38] <@davidb> http://www.banhmiboys.com/menu.htm
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- # [17:40] <@surkov> yeah, that one is close
- # [17:40] <@davidb> https://pastebin.mozilla.org/5979073
- # [17:44] <Jamie> davidb: pork belly please
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- # [17:46] <@davidb> MarcoZ https://pastebin.mozilla.org/5979073
- # [17:47] <@MarcoZ> davidb: five spice pork belly.
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- # [18:02] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16572338/accessing-nsiaccessibletext-xpcom-interface
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- # [18:18] <Jamie> MarcoZ: This is pretty much what they're doing: data:text/html,<body role="application"><div contentEditable="true" role="textbox"><p>asdf</p></div></body>
- # [18:18] <Jamie> MarcoZ: Notice that the focus according to Firefox never hits the paragraph, which is correct behaviour according to Firefox. NVDA does fake the focus when you move the caret, though.
- # [18:18] <Jamie> MarcoZ: However, in this case, for some reason, caret events are fired just fine
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- # [19:03] <Jamie> MarcoZ: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/5979984
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- # [19:27] <@eeejay> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Mobile/ScreenReader
- # [19:27] <@eeejay> davidb, ^
- # [19:28] <@davidb> holy crap - with movies
- # [19:28] <@davidb> \o/
- # [19:30] <@MarcoZ> :)
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- # [19:54] <@davidb> joanie http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-accessibility-tf
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- # [20:13] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 1052122 from nobody@mozilla.org to trev.saunders@gmail.com.
- # [20:13] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1052122 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [20:13] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052122 — ASSIGNED, trev.saunders — derecursify TreeWalker::NextChild
- # [20:15] <Jamie> joanie: so longdesc on img and iframe is under this section: "Some attributes from HTML4 are no longer allowed in HTML. The specification defines how user agents should process them in legacy documents, but Web developers are not allowed use them and they will not validate."
- # [20:15] <Jamie> also note the typo in the spec :)
- # [20:16] <Jamie> joanie: see also http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/809 and bug 1996 for rather extended arguments about why it should be supported and how many use cases there are in the wild
- # [20:16] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1996 — WONTFIX — Support LONGDESC for IMG
- # [20:17] <Jamie> joanie: and see also http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/#absent-attributes
- # [20:17] <Jamie> is that enough links to make you want to die?
- # [20:21] * @davidb mumbles about aria-hidden also lurking
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- # [20:45] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053942 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [20:45] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053942 — NEW — document accessible may never quite busy state
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- # [20:58] <@surkov> I wrote a small tool to visualize a11y doc loading logs, what is a good place to keep it?
- # [20:59] <@davidb> like a repo?
- # [20:59] <@surkov> yeah
- # [20:59] <@davidb> github?
- # [20:59] <@surkov> where there?
- # [21:01] <@surkov> Marco, did you hear any JAWS page loading problems in Firefox 30+
- # [21:01] <@surkov> MarcoZ: ^
- # [21:02] <@davidb> the bug table at pomegranate was taken so i booked http://queenmothercafe.ca/menu.htm#dinner
- # [21:02] <@davidb> we can cancel if that is horrible to anyone :)
- # [21:02] <@davidb> bug/big :)
- # [21:03] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Nope, hadn't heard anything re JAWS document loading problems.
- # [21:03] <@surkov> ok
- # [21:03] <@yzen> davidb what time ?
- # [21:03] <@surkov> MarcoZ: please keep an eye on that, people complain
- # [21:04] <@surkov> a bad thing we don’t have steps to reproduce
- # [21:04] <@davidb> yzen 7
- # [21:04] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Any exact steps? I just recently ran Firefox and JAWS and didn't notice anything unusual.
- # [21:04] <@surkov> yeah, no steps
- # [21:04] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK.
- # [21:04] <@davidb> surkov, did bret report this?
- # [21:04] <@surkov> yes
- # [21:04] <@surkov> he saw it once and some people also saw it
- # [21:05] <@davidb> yzen, does that work for you?
- # [21:05] <@yzen> yeah totes
- # [21:06] <@davidb> i'm looking forward to it... good food
- # [21:07] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053953 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
- # [21:07] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053953 — NEW — No caret events fired on unclosed iframe document with javascript: URL
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- # [21:18] <Jamie> So anyone still interested in a math ramble/demo?
- # [21:18] <Jamie> and when?
- # [21:18] <@surkov> that’d be good
- # [21:19] <@surkov> I can do anytime
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- # [21:19] <@surkov> davidb: what about repo ideas?
- # [21:20] <@davidb> surkov, i'd ask yzen or eeejay. probably simplest to use a personal git repo
- # [21:20] <@davidb> on github
- # [21:21] <@eeejay> for ia2? sure. janina will probably not like that
- # [21:22] <Jamie> surkov: in the test case, there's a line taht says: iframe.src = "javascript:undefined";
- # [21:24] <@surkov> eeejay: no internal gecko stuff, it’s visualizer for A11YLOG enviropment variable
- # [21:24] <@surkov> it’s just bunch of JS
- # [21:24] <@eeejay> surkov, awesome. can't wait to try it
- # [21:25] <Jamie> NV Access has a Git repo for IA2 already
- # [21:25] <Jamie> http://bitbucket.org/nvaccess/ia2
- # [21:26] <Jamie> You're welcome to fork it or whatever
- # [21:29] <@surkov> it’s not IA2 related, it’s just for easier understanding a11y gecko logging
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- # [21:55] <@davidb> Jamie, "If not already excluded from the accessibility tree per the above rules, user agents SHOULD NOT include the following elements in the accessibility tree: Elements, including their descendents, that have a WAI-ARIA global attribute of aria-hidden="true"
- # [21:55] <@davidb> from http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/
- # [21:55] <@davidb> originally it was MUST NOT, but I asked for the change to SHOULD NOT for now
- # [21:56] <Jamie> joanie: <span onClick="foo">blah</span>
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- # [21:59] <Jamie> joanie: data:text/html,<ul role="listbox"><li role="option" tabindex="-1" onClick="foo()">l</li></ul>
- # [21:59] <Jamie> davidb: right, so that seems pretty clear
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- # [22:12] <@davidb> bug 780888
- # [22:12] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/780888 — WONTFIX — Actually prune the aria-hidden tree
- # [22:13] <Jamie> aria-hidden bug 972845
- # [22:13] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/972845 — NEW — Do not expose elements with aria-hidden="true" via ATK
- # [22:22] <Jamie> inherit aria-hidden: bug 786143
- # [22:22] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/786143 — REOPENED — inherit aria-hidden through subtree
- # [22:24] <Jamie> surkov: David's going to write a patch for bug 972845. will you r+ or r-?
- # [22:24] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/972845 — NEW — Do not expose elements with aria-hidden="true"
- # [22:25] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1053998 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [22:25] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053998 — NEW — add few bits for doclifecycle logging
- # [22:25] <@surkov> Jamie: it’d be good to get an agreement before doing actual work
- # [22:25] <@surkov> Jamie: what’s about that google’s example?
- # [22:26] <@surkov> in general I’m ok with aria-hidden but the spec should be cleared
- # [22:26] <Jamie> surkov: Google do stuff like this: <div><textarea aria-hidden="true"></textarea></div>. the textarea gets focus, but it's not really visible; it's just a way to handle clipboard, etc.</div>
- # [22:27] <@surkov> in that case I’d say AIRA has to provide a way to specify a11y focus
- # [22:27] <Jamie> surkov: so, in that case, focus would need to be "faked" on the nearest ancestor; this is what Chrome does
- # [22:27] <@surkov> the browser shouldn’t get in that case
- # [22:27] <@davidb> yeah error handling should be interoperable
- # [22:27] <Jamie> surkov: but what will the browser do if the tree is pruned and something inside it gets focus?
- # [22:28] <@surkov> to filter out author errors from legal usage
- # [22:28] <@surkov> I wanted to not hide focus but that doesn’t go with google example
- # [22:28] <@surkov> so in this case I would suggset to introduce new ARIA attribute to specify a11y focus
- # [22:29] <@surkov> like <textarea aria-hidden=“true” aria-focus=“fakefocus”></textarea>
- # [22:30] <Jamie> surkov: that doesn't fix the problem *now*, though
- # [22:30] <@surkov> but that’s crazy, I guess they could support clipboard otherwise
- # [22:31] <Jamie> surkov: let me put it another way: if we prune the tree, what will you do if the textarea gets focus? will you just expose the textarea or will you expose the whole tree? e.g. <div aria-hidden="true"><div><textarea></textarea></div></div>
- # [22:31] <Jamie> surkov: do you expose just the div or do you just expose the textarea?
- # [22:31] <Jamie> err
- # [22:31] <Jamie> do you expose the top div and all descendants or just the textarea
- # [22:31] <@surkov> let me check
- # [22:32] <@surkov> but in general we can implement any behavior
- # [22:32] <@surkov> so not sure I follow the question
- # [22:32] <Jamie> mm, I mean... in the absence of aria-focus, what do you propose firefox should do?
- # [22:33] <Jamie> davidb wants interoperability and i tend to agree, which means focus should be faked to the nearest non-hidden ancestor
- # [22:33] <@surkov> ah, expose textarea
- # [22:33] <@surkov> because I would consider that as author error
- # [22:34] <@surkov> Jamie: well, that’s not super easy
- # [22:34] <@surkov> we could fire focus event but then we should support things like foucsed event
- # [22:35] <@surkov> I meant focused state
- # [22:35] <@surkov> and that should be tricky part
- # [22:35] <@surkov> or add some complexity
- # [22:35] <@surkov> :)
- # [22:35] <Jamie> surkov: so you don't expose the divs above the textarea, though?
- # [22:35] <Jamie> surkov: so the textarea sort of just magically pops into existence in the tree?
- # [22:35] <Jamie> when it gets focus
- # [22:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 1053250.
- # [22:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1053250 from --- to FIXED.
- # [22:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1053250 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [22:36] <@surkov> I don’t really have solution
- # [22:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1053250 from --- to mozilla34.
- # [22:36] <@surkov> that depends on what we want
- # [22:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 1053247.
- # [22:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1053247 from --- to FIXED.
- # [22:36] <@surkov> if we want to make that google testcase working at any means then we should follow google
- # [22:36] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1053247 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [22:37] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1053247 from --- to mozilla34.
- # [22:37] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053250 — FIXED, eitan — [AccessFu] When automoving to a remote iframe, preserve its current vc position if it has one
- # [22:37] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053247 — FIXED, eitan — [AccessFu] content integration test does not fully run
- # [22:37] <@surkov> if we think about web then perhaps we should do something different
- # [22:37] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1053248 from --- to FIXED.
- # [22:37] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1053248 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [22:37] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1053248 from --- to mozilla34.
- # [22:37] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1053248 — FIXED, eitan — [AccessFu] Add new debug domain for gestures
- # [22:38] <@surkov> if you mean unattached tree idea then it doesn’t popup when focused, it’s just unattached from main tree
- # [22:38] <@surkov> when you get an event then you can get that example and crawl the tree
- # [22:38] <@surkov> but you cannot find that accessible if you traverse main tree
- # [22:41] <@surkov> anyway it sounds like we started from wrong side. First of all we need to figure out if that google example is valid one, i.e. goes with the spec
- # [22:42] <@surkov> and if it’s valid and good use case but spec is ambigious then we need to fix the spec
- # [22:42] <Jamie> spec does not sate what should happen to focus if this occurs
- # [22:42] <Jamie> just another example of how badly aria-hidden is specified
- # [22:42] <@surkov> yeah then we have to fix the spec
- # [22:43] <@surkov> it is specified badly
- # [22:43] <Jamie> sure, but again, that doesn't help us now
- # [22:43] <@surkov> I don’t have magic pill :)
- # [22:44] * Jamie grins
- # [22:44] <@surkov> if we just follow chrome then we don’t really need a spec
- # [22:44] <Jamie> haha
- # [22:53] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1010195 from --- to WORKSFORME.
- # [22:53] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 1010195 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [22:53] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1010195 — WORKSFORME — [AccessFu] Not possible to enter a SIM PIN on a FF OS phone
- # [22:54] <@davidb> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2dk60t/we_build_internet_explorer_i_know_right_ask_us/
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- # [23:24] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Resolution on bug 972845 from --- to WONTFIX.
- # [23:24] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Status on bug 972845 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [23:25] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/972845 — WONTFIX — Do not expose elements with aria-hidden="true"
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The end :)