/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-08-29 / end
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- # Session Start: Fri Aug 29 00:00:01 2014
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [07:50] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca changed the Assignee on bug 980510 from nobody@mozilla.org to maxli@maxli.ca.
- # [07:50] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/980510 — NEW, maxli — [AccessFu] After moving by granularity, swiping to next object brings up current object.
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- # [09:44] <@MarcoZ> Morning!
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- # [15:01] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1059020 from --- to FIXED.
- # [15:01] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1059020 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [15:01] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1059020 from --- to mozilla34.
- # [15:01] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1059020 — FIXED, jruderman — "ASSERTION: bad size recorded" with accessibility, Notification
- # [15:03] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1052122 from --- to FIXED.
- # [15:03] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1052122 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [15:03] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1052122 from --- to mozilla34.
- # [15:03] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052122 — FIXED, trev.saunders — derecursify TreeWalker::NextChild
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- # [15:33] <@davidb> heyo
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- # [15:47] <francisATgwn> where can I find documentation of any accessibility APIs that are exposed to extension javascript?
- # [15:48] <francisATgwn> searching the mdn isn't turning up much except how to make UIs accessible
- # [15:50] <@davidb> francisATgwn, what is the extension's purpose?
- # [15:52] <francisATgwn> davidb: shifting focus within the document in response to arrow keys
- # [15:52] <francisATgwn> we install firefox on a kiosk-like device with an input device that only has directional arrows and an enter key. we've forked spatial navigation from the core product into an extension that we can maintain and improve more easily. I'm looking for a better way to determine what is "to the left/right/up/down of" the currently focused element than by using a tree walker and doing my own geometric calculations from bounding boxes
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- # [15:53] <@davidb> francisATgwn, I'd try really hard not to use the a11y scripted interfaces if possible because using the a11y interface invokes our big heavyweight a11y engine and would be overkill.
- # [15:53] <@davidb> (nsIAccessibleRetrieval)
- # [15:54] * @davidb thinks about an alternative
- # [15:54] <francisATgwn> ok. I'm finding that calculating the geometry and computed styles of all elements on a page (especially pages like cnn.com) is very processor intensive. some of our devices have atom processors and it's just a very poor experience in terms of responsiveness
- # [15:54] * @davidb nods
- # [15:55] <@davidb> francisATgwn, i wonder if you could utilize caret navigation mode somehow
- # [15:56] <@davidb> (F7)
- # [15:57] <@davidb> probably not really
- # [15:57] <icaaq> davidb do you have a minute and just look at my comment here https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1056933#3 does it make sense?
- # [15:57] <@firebot> Bug 1056933 — NEW — Move Submenu close button to be first item in submenu and expose on focus
- # [15:57] <francisATgwn> the few times I've turned it on, it seemed like it had insufficient granularity. but maybe I just couldn't see where the caret was (part of our extension injects CSS so the currently focused element has a nice big, yellow focus ring around it)
- # [15:58] <francisATgwn> seems like, at least in the default implementation, I can't escape from form elements using caret navigation
- # [15:59] <@davidb> icaaq, i feel like there must be a keyboard model designed for this already... that said nothing jumps out as not making sense
- # [15:59] <@davidb> francisATgwn, yeah it isn't exactly what you want...
- # [16:01] <@davidb> not sure
- # [16:02] <icaaq> davidb yes, probably. havent found anything yet. will have another look
- # [16:02] <francisATgwn> davidb: I see the API is doing caching (invalidateSubtreeFor). I've gone down that road with my code and it causes as many headaches as it solves problems
- # [16:02] <@davidb> icaaq, does http://access.aol.com/dhtml-style-guide-working-group/#menu help?
- # [16:03] <@davidb> francisATgwn, we really have no choice
- # [16:03] <@davidb> and yes, headaches
- # [16:04] <francisATgwn> how do you get at the geometry information, does the c++ code have more direct access to the layout engine?
- # [16:04] <@davidb> yes
- # [16:04] <@davidb> we can look at the frame tree
- # [16:05] <@davidb> since a decision was made long ago to try to stay true to what is visually true.
- # [16:05] <@davidb> so we do.
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- # [16:07] <@davidb> (you can think of the frame tree as our layout/render tree)
- # [16:09] <francisATgwn> so what would it take to spin up the accessible engine and start using it on a content document? is it not as simple as instantiating an nsIAccessible for an interesting node? Is there some example javascript code I can start from as a reference?
- # [16:09] <@davidb> yeah 1 sec
- # [16:10] <icaaq> davidb found this http://terrillthompson.com/tests/menus/accessible-mega-menu/test.html
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- # [16:15] <@davidb> francisATgwn, i seem to have blown away my sample code
- # [16:15] <@davidb> it was probably slightly old anyway
- # [16:16] <francisATgwn> do you know of an extension that I can crack open?
- # [16:17] <@davidb> dom inspector comes to mind, but that is huge
- # [16:18] <francisATgwn> interesting. I woudn't have guessed it would use an accessibility api
- # [16:18] <@davidb> yeah we have an a11y tree view option there
- # [16:18] <@davidb> plus event monitoring
- # [16:20] <francisATgwn> so how do I get from an element to an nsIAccessible? is there boilerplate required to enable the engine?
- # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: there should be code for that in dom inspectors support for looking at accessibility stuff
- # [16:21] <francisATgwn> ok
- # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: basically once you have the nsIAcessibleRetrieval component I think you can just call getAccessibleFor on it with a node
- # [16:26] <francisATgwn> tbsaunde: are we talking about this dom inspector? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dom-inspector-6622/?src=search
- # [16:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde is correct
- # [16:27] <francisATgwn> tbsaunde: nevermind! I figured it out! it helps to unzip the jar
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- # [16:40] <francisATgwn> tbsaunde: OK. I've got an accessible from a node, very cool. I can get its bounds with getBounds. However, it doesn't implement the four directional methods I'm most interested in (getAccessibleAbove, getAccessibleToRight, etc) as documented here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/nsIAccessible Any idea why that might be?
- # [16:43] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: other nobody ever needed them no
- # [16:44] <francisATgwn> tbsaunde: so the methods were never implemented?
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- # [16:46] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: as far as I'm aware
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- # [16:49] <@davidb> i guess that's that then
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- # [16:50] <@MarcoZ> Hi there!
- # [16:51] <francisATgwn> nsIAccessible.parent gives me the ability to walk up the tree across security boundaries, from the content node right to the main browser window, so that's a huge improvement
- # [16:52] <@davidb> hi MarcoZ
- # [16:52] <francisATgwn> can the accessibility API give me computed css information or otherwise determine if an element is not visible to the user, more efficiently that document.getComputedStyle?
- # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: its probably faster but I never really tested
- # [16:59] <francisATgwn> tbsaunde: what is the "it" that you refer to as being faster?
- # [17:01] <@davidb> MarcoZ, i guess you are holding the fort Monday :)
- # [17:18] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: accessibility stuff
- # [17:18] <francisATgwn> tbsaunde: I'm new here, I'm not sure what accessibility API is available that can give me visibility information for a particular node, what am I looking for?
- # [17:21] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: what do you want to know?
- # [17:21] <francisATgwn> I want to know whether or not a node is visible to the user. a node would not be visible if it were hidden via CSS visibility or if it or one of its ancestors were removed from the layout via display: none;
- # [17:23] <francisATgwn> I currently use getComputedStyle for that. In combination with a TreeWalker where I can cut off an entire subtree at the ancestor where display:none takes effect, this works well. However, it's slow enough that on a larger page the tree walking process is user perceptible, measured in seconds
- # [17:24] <francisATgwn> I'm looking for an alternative approach that could be more efficient
- # [17:27] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: I don't think you'll get accessible objects for display: none elements
- # [17:27] <@tbsaunde> for display: hidden you can do accessible.getState() and see if it has the visible or offscreen state
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- # [17:28] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: there's probably examples of checking this sort of thing in accessible/src/jsat/
- # [17:28] <francisATgwn> you are correct, getAccessibleFor returns null
- # [17:30] <francisATgwn> that's excellent!
- # [17:30] <francisATgwn> can I get access to mozilla::a11y::TreeWalker from javascript?
- # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: no
- # [17:37] <francisATgwn> ok. it looks like it would be sufficient for me to use a traditional tree walker, filter out any nodes for which getAccessibleFor returns null as well as checking the state. perhaps I should filter out States.UNAVAILABLE, .OFFSCREEN, and .INVISIBLE
- # [17:38] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I expect a quiet day without any incidents. ;)
- # [17:38] <@davidb> heh yeah
- # [17:43] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: offscreen and unavailablbe depend on exact needs but something like that
- # [17:45] <francisATgwn> alright then, is there anything in the accessibility API that can tell me if a node is scrollable, taking into account the overflow CSS property?
- # [17:45] <@tbsaunde> francisATgwn: I'm not actually sure
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- # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> !summan surkov
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- # [19:03] <@davidb> tbsaunde, FWIW I pinged surkov and he said he'd out but home later, email him in the meantime if you like
- # [19:03] <@davidb> he'd/he's
- # [19:09] <@tbsaunde> davidb: it can wait
- # [19:09] <@davidb> ack
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- # [19:24] <@tbsaunde> joanie: ping
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- # [19:56] <joanie> tbsaunde: pong
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- # [19:58] <@tbsaunde> joanie: how do you feel about getting caret events if fo.html#bar gets openned in a background tab?
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- # [19:59] <joanie> hmmmm
- # [19:59] <@tbsaunde> Gecko seems to think the caret is per doc or per tab or something like that
- # [19:59] <joanie> what Orca would do even given events, I'm not entirely sure. Having said that....
- # [19:59] <joanie> Due to some magic somewhere, when the user switches to the tab, Orca should present the correct thing
- # [19:59] <@tbsaunde> which I guess is kind of reasonable
- # [20:00] <joanie> ultimately, if we get that "where's the caret-containing child?" stuff in ATK and then implemented, Orca could ask.
- # [20:00] <joanie> in the meantime, I think my answer is: We want the event.
- # [20:00] <joanie> But we might not be handling it -- yet.
- # [20:00] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, and I think that's the part where you really want accessible with caret, though maybe events and tracking more than one caret works too
- # [20:00] * joanie smiles
- # [20:01] <joanie> Orca manages multiple document frames and caret offsets within them
- # [20:01] <@tbsaunde> joanie: great, makes my life easy
- # [20:01] <joanie> but I do not think that if a page is loaded in a non-active tab, Orca listens to the caret moved events
- # [20:01] <joanie> clearly in this use case it should
- # [20:01] <joanie> but if you give me the event, I can start paying attention to it
- # [20:02] <@tbsaunde> joanie: yeah, just need to make sure Alex is ok with it then I'll check it in
- # [20:02] <joanie> yay! thanks!!
- # [20:02] <@tbsaunde> turned out to be an easy fix so np
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- # [21:03] <dj_dij> hii can anybody help me with this bug? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737766#c35 this would be my first bug and its marked as a good first bug
- # [21:03] <@firebot> Bug 737766 — NEW — Firefox can't save the homepage.
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- # [21:06] <@tbsaunde> dj_dij: depends what you want to know
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- # [21:09] * @davidb wonders if this is a good first bug
- # [21:14] <dj_dij> tbsaunde: i have been trying to understand the solution through comments for sometime, i could reproduce the problem through accerciser then via comment 15 i understood that an input event is to fired for HyperTextAccessible methods. i found the HyperTextAccessible class but don't know how to fire the event now
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- # [21:20] <@tbsaunde> dj_dij: start with this comment https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737766#c15 if that doesn't help ask smaug I guess
- # [21:20] <@firebot> Bug 737766 — NEW — Firefox can't save the homepage.
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- # [22:43] <dj_dij> tbsaunde: is it possible that the bug is already fixed because i am doing the same steps on my machine as stated in description https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737766#c0 but it is working correctly
- # [22:43] <@firebot> Bug 737766 — NEW — Firefox can't save the homepage.
- # [22:44] <@firebot> tabraldes@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 1041070 from tabraldes@mozilla.com to trev.saunders@gmail.com.
- # [22:44] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1041070 — ASSIGNED, trev.saunders — Update `CacheChildren` and `ShutdownChildrenInSubtree` to avoid locking up main thread
- # [22:48] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
- # [22:52] <@tbsaunde> dj_dij: yeah, that's possible
- # [22:54] <dj_dij> tbsaunde: k thanks i guess i must look for some other first bug then
- # [23:04] <@tbsaunde> dj_dij: yeah, please comment in the bug and say you can't reporduce
- # [23:06] <dj_dij> tbsaunde: ok done that
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- # Session Close: Sat Aug 30 00:00:00 2014
The end :)