/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-09-09 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  24. # [01:34] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 1047428 from nobody@mozilla.org to maxli@maxli.ca.
  25. # [01:34] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 1047428.
  26. # [01:34] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1047428 from --- to FIXED.
  27. # [01:34] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1047428 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  28. # [01:34] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1047428 from --- to mozilla35.
  29. # [01:34] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1047428 — FIXED, maxli — [AccessFu] Report read only state for editables.
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  123. # [15:12] <@davidb> heyo!
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  125. # [15:14] <@firebot> florian@queze.net changed the Assignee on bug 1063957 from nobody@mozilla.org to florian@queze.net.
  126. # [15:14] <@firebot> florian@queze.net changed the Status on bug 1063957 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  127. # [15:14] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1063957 — ASSIGNED, florian — Menu listing device access by websites empty if string for device set missing
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  131. # [15:19] <@firebot> florian@queze.net granted firefox-backlog on bug 1063957.
  132. # [15:19] <@firebot> florian@queze.net granted qe-verify on bug 1063957.
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  141. # [15:46] <@MarcoZ> Hi there davidb and yzen!
  142. # [15:46] <@davidb> hi hi hi
  143. # [15:46] <@yzen> MarcoZ hi
  144. # [15:48] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1064877 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  145. # [15:49] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1064877 — NEW — dexpcomify Accessible
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  147. # [15:50] * @davidb giggles at 203.96 KB patch
  148. # [15:50] <@davidb> hmmm
  149. # [15:54] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1064879 filed by mzehe@mozilla.com.
  150. # [15:54] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1064879 — NEW — Edit fields not activated when braille routing key is pressed
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  153. # [16:00] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1064883 filed by mzehe@mozilla.com.
  154. # [16:00] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1064883 — NEW — Quick navigation letters sometimes don't work when entered on a braille display
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  157. # [16:07] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1064889 filed by mzehe@mozilla.com.
  158. # [16:07] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1064889 — NEW — Not able to move into the opened menu using BrailleBack commands
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  160. # [16:10] <@MarcoZ> Uh-Oh, surkov is back to writing big big patches... :D 203 KB... Holy smokes!
  161. # [16:11] <@surkov> MarcoZ: that’s just large bunch of changes, nothing special
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  181. # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> yzen: So, were you able to figure out something about those lost keyboard inputs?
  182. # [17:09] <@yzen> MarcoZ yeah, eeejay has a PR for me to review, we have some issues with edit mode and android interfering in accessfu
  183. # [17:10] <@yzen> davidb can i borrow your flame ?
  184. # [17:10] <@davidb> sure. in upper inside pocket of backpack
  185. # [17:10] <@yzen> davidb thanks
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  188. # [17:17] <@firebot> jaws@mozilla.com requested needinfo from l10n@mozilla.com on bug 1044214.
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  191. # [17:17] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1044214 — NEW — Restore access keys to new Context Menu
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  197. # [17:26] <@firebot> francesco.lodolo@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(l10n@mozilla.com) on bug 1044214.
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  240. # [18:52] <jamesn> surkov, has the logic for which divs end up as sections in the a11y tree changed anytime recently?
  241. # [18:55] <jamesn> I'm finding I have to code <div role="presentation"> to get the right structure. I don't think I should have to do this.
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  255. # [19:42] <@surkov> jamesn: I don’t think we changed anything div hierarchy related intentionally but we do make presentation handling changes from time to time as long as we get bug reports (regardless how easy this thing may look :) ). How recently that was?
  256. # [19:43] <@surkov> jamesn: do you have example for the problem?
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  266. # [20:07] <jamesn> surkov - sorry went away
  267. # [20:08] <jamesn> surkov: I will get an example to you in a bug report. The issue is for menus and tabs where we have intermediate div layers between the tablist or menu and the tabs or menuitems
  268. # [20:08] <jamesn> surkov: this causes the calculation of the number of items to go screwy as they are not direct siblings in the a11y if the divs get included as sections
  269. # [20:09] <jamesn> surkov: we can't get rid of the divs as they are used to control overflows and other styling requirements
  270. # [20:11] <jamesn> surkov: we are almost at the point of recommending people use <div role="presentation"> always to avoid this sort of issue. IMO you should only expose a div as a section if it has a text node child. If it only has child accessible nodes what is the point in exposing it to the a11y APIs?
  271. # [20:11] <@surkov> jamesn: in general <div role=“presentation”> should not be exposed
  272. # [20:12] <@surkov> jamesn: can you file a bug and attach test case pls?
  273. # [20:12] <jamesn> surkov: I will do... I just don't think we should have to put role='presentation' on a div.
  274. # [20:12] <jamesn> surkov: it seems like it will add a lot of code bloat
  275. # [20:14] <@surkov> jamesn: oh, you talk about bug 646216 I guess
  276. # [20:14] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/646216 — NEW — Collapse a11y tree when possible
  277. # [20:14] <@surkov> jamesn: I agree we don’t need divs to have an accessible in most cases
  278. # [20:15] <@surkov> but detection when we don’t need might be tricky
  279. # [20:16] <@surkov> like if divs have different styling
  280. # [20:16] <jamesn> why does it need an accessible if it has different styling?
  281. # [20:17] <jamesn> i guess if it becomes scrollable
  282. # [20:17] <tbsaunde> or someone puts a text node under it
  283. # [20:17] <@surkov> different stylilng can be used for grouping things
  284. # [20:18] <@surkov> scrollable and text inside -> have to have accessible object
  285. # [20:18] <jamesn> hmmm - i see
  286. # [20:18] <eeejay> yzen, the screen reader is *so* much more usable now
  287. # [20:18] <@surkov> jamie had some examples for that iirc
  288. # [20:18] <@yzen> eeejay :) sweet
  289. # [20:18] <jamesn> what we really need if some sort of html element with no semantics ;)
  290. # [20:19] <@yzen> eeejay i meant to ask you, i m still not able to run all tests with my patch , but they run independently.. do you think it
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  292. # [20:20] <@surkov> jamesn: in Firefox this is span, until it has no block display style
  293. # [20:20] <@yzen> s a problem in jsatcommon, given that we have some intermittents? i was thinking of splitting the tests up into separate isolated ones, thoughts ?
  294. # [20:20] <jamesn> surkov: span is inline only - that is a problem
  295. # [20:20] <@surkov> I see
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  297. # [20:21] <@surkov> jamesn: do you know how other browsers do? do they follow the rule no text + no scrollable -> no accessible for div?
  298. # [20:21] <eeejay> yzen, could you post the patch somewhere? i could look into it too.
  299. # [20:21] <eeejay> yzen, the patch i put up for review changes how we do things in jsatcomon
  300. # [20:21] <@yzen> sure ill do shortly, want to finish the status bar ebt pull
  301. # [20:22] <@yzen> eeejay yeah next in my queue, sorry for the delay :)
  302. # [20:22] <jamesn> not sure... out test cases work out ok on IE. Haven't looked at the a11y interface though as it worked ok with the screen reader.
  303. # [20:22] <jamesn> we have the same issue as FF on Safari on iOS though but hard to look at the a11y tree there
  304. # [20:22] <@surkov> I see
  305. # [20:25] <jamesn> surkov: I see 2 ways to resolve for us. (1) use role=presentation liberally or (2) use aria-owns to parent the child nodes directly in the a11y tree. Aria-owns always seems really flakey though and I'm not sure it is a good idea when the node is already a dom descendatn (albeit not directly)
  306. # [20:25] <@surkov> role=“presentation” seems nicer
  307. # [20:26] <@surkov> if you don’t really need those accessible for helper div eleemnts
  308. # [20:26] <jamesn> our perfomance guys are resisting
  309. # [20:26] <jamesn> we have really deep div hierarchies too.... it is a ton of extra accessible objects that get created
  310. # [20:27] <tbsaunde> I forget if aria-owns even does what you want there it may just change relations and group but not tree, but anyway its horrible
  311. # [20:28] <jamesn> I agree... we need to look at that too though
  312. # [20:29] <jamesn> we have some grid cases where there is no other option
  313. # [20:29] <jamesn> where we have cells which have different row parents but form one logical row (this is to support frozen columns)
  314. # [20:30] <jamesn> we really need to be able to use aria-owns to parent a gridcell into a different row than its DOM hierarchy
  315. # [20:30] <jamesn> I can write up a use case for this if I knew someone would look at it!
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  321. # [20:34] <@surkov> jamesn: I can do that for you
  322. # [20:35] <jamesn> excellent... shall I log a bug or mail it to you?
  323. # [20:35] <@surkov> jamesn: bug is preferable
  324. # [20:35] <jamesn> np... look for it soon
  325. # [20:35] <@surkov> since everybody can join it
  326. # [20:35] <jamesn> this week hopefully
  327. # [20:36] <@surkov> about tons of div: I guess we could try to implement that simple rule and see if it breaks anybody
  328. # [20:36] <@surkov> I tend to think that those styling cases should use more ARIA
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  338. # [21:08] * @davidb is on a w3c call discussing how to clarify name calculation
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  341. # [21:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: how do you think we should separate xpcom from internals: aggregation and hash?
  342. # [21:39] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 1064877 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  343. # [21:39] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1064877 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  344. # [21:39] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1064877 — ASSIGNED, surkov.alexander — dexpcomify Accessible
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  346. # [21:41] <tbsaunde> surkov: can I think about that some other time?
  347. # [21:42] <@surkov> tbsaunde: sure if you need, take your time, I guessed that was something more or less agreed
  348. # [21:42] <@surkov> it looks like after that patch there’s no much work left on that way
  349. # [21:43] <@surkov> and thus it’s tempting to get free some memory from dexpcomination
  350. # [21:47] <tbsaunde> surkov: what do you mean agrigation?
  351. # [21:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: keep reference to internal Accessible object and redirect all calls to it
  352. # [21:48] <tbsaunde> surkov: I guess that's fine
  353. # [21:48] <tbsaunde> btw how is that random orange test going?
  354. # [21:48] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, what about hash?
  355. # [21:49] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I didn’t spot anything suspicios from logging, need to look at it in details
  356. # [21:49] <@surkov> but it sounds it doesn’t hit so often as it was
  357. # [21:51] <tbsaunde> surkov: I guess that's fine too
  358. # [21:51] <@surkov> ok, thx!
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  360. # [21:55] * @davidb glazes on https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#WAIARIAAttributes
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  363. # [22:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: minor thing: do you prefer to have bulky stuff like static_cast<HyperTextAccessible*>(this) in xpc classes or have some short inline like HTAcc()?
  364. # [22:15] <tbsaunde> surkov: whatever
  365. # [22:15] * @davidb prefers long form
  366. # [22:16] <@surkov> davidb: why?
  367. # [22:16] <@davidb> i like to see exactly what is happening
  368. # [22:16] <@davidb> but don't fret on me :)
  369. # [22:16] <@surkov> I see, I’m not sure which way I like more
  370. # [22:17] <@surkov> I can see we have local variables for static_cast result which is mostly about savving code lines
  371. # [22:19] <@davidb> what is common practice in other modules?
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  374. # [22:33] <@surkov> I didn’t see huge amount of these thigns in other modules
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  376. # [22:33] <@davidb> ok gotta shuffle
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  379. # [22:45] <@yzen> eeejay ping
  380. # [22:45] <eeejay> yzen, het
  381. # [22:45] <@yzen> eeejay so i m testing your patch, my issues is gone but your STR does not work
  382. # [22:45] <@yzen> woops one sec
  383. # [22:45] <eeejay> flash it?
  384. # [22:45] <@yzen> :)
  385. # [22:46] <@yzen> duh
  386. # [22:46] <eeejay> yzen, i'm refactoring out pump/receivemessage stuffin jsat
  387. # [22:46] <eeejay> jsatcommon
  388. # [22:46] <@yzen> eeejay that's awesome :)
  389. # [22:46] <eeejay> yzen, hopefully it will make it better and less error prone
  390. # [22:47] <@yzen> i've been quietly crying in the corner the last couple of days :)
  391. # [22:47] <eeejay> sorry..
  392. # [22:48] <@yzen> eeejay no worries, i was just wondering what could cause the inconsistency between all tests and individual tests, i guess there are some races with even handling
  393. # [22:48] <eeejay> yes
  394. # [22:48] <eeejay> focus is a b
  395. # [22:50] <@yzen> eeejay looks like we are getting a status bar back if bug 1057457 lands
  396. # [22:51] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1057457 — NEW, yzenevich — [AccessFu] Improve the behavior of the auto move.
  397. # [22:51] <@yzen> sorry bug 1045017
  398. # [22:51] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1045017 — NEW, yzenevich — Can no longer touch status bar icons with the screen reader
  399. # [22:51] <eeejay> cool
  400. # [22:52] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1065100 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  401. # [22:52] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1065100 — NEW — hide bulky static_cast stuff in xpc classes
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  407. # [22:58] <@yzen> eeejay so it works great, sorry for the panic :)
  408. # [22:58] <eeejay> yzen, awesome!
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  410. # [22:59] <eeejay> yzen, don't want to put that in the try block because i don't want the try to catch things it shouldn't
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  412. # [22:59] <@yzen> eeejay sure, just the comment should work then
  413. # [23:00] <eeejay> cool
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  419. # Session Close: Wed Sep 10 00:00:01 2014

The end :)