/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-09-12 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Sep 12 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:10] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-B2092CB.dsl.bell.ca)
  4. # [00:10] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  5. # [00:20] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-B2092CB.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  6. # [00:42] * Quits: newtron (newtron@16CD1393.1DC31EC0.921B270C.IP) (Client exited)
  7. # [00:42] * Joins: newtron (newtron@16CD1393.1DC31EC0.921B270C.IP)
  8. # [00:44] * Quits: newtron (newtron@16CD1393.1DC31EC0.921B270C.IP) (Ping timeout)
  9. # [00:52] * Quits: khuey (khuey@moz-DB4A9C19.scl3.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
  10. # [00:53] * Joins: khuey (khuey@moz-DB4A9C19.scl3.mozilla.com)
  11. # [00:54] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-B2092CB.dsl.bell.ca)
  12. # [00:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  13. # [00:54] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-B2092CB.dsl.bell.ca) (Input/output error)
  14. # [01:12] * Joins: Jamie (Instantbir@moz-CA26021.jantrid.net)
  15. # [01:21] <joanie> Is Jamie James Teh perchance?
  16. # [01:22] <Jamie> joanie: the very same. :)
  17. # [01:22] <joanie> Yo /me grins
  18. # [01:22] <joanie> hey so check this out:
  19. # [01:22] <joanie> Because of the rewriting I needed to do anyway in ORca
  20. # [01:22] <joanie> I just looked at what it would take to implement oldschool jaws-style one-object per line navigation
  21. # [01:22] <joanie> 4 lines of code
  22. # [01:23] <joanie> I shit thee not
  23. # [01:23] * Jamie grins
  24. # [01:23] <joanie> so I'm going to push it
  25. # [01:23] <Jamie> Don't do it! Don't do it! <laughs>
  26. # [01:23] <joanie> What do you call this in NVDA?
  27. # [01:23] <joanie> one NVDA user called in layout mode
  28. # [01:23] <joanie> but I don't see that in your docs
  29. # [01:23] <Jamie> We call the reverse behaviour (hat NVDA and Orca do by default and JAWS doesn't) screen layout
  30. # [01:23] <joanie> right
  31. # [01:24] <Jamie> So when you're doing one object per line, we say the user has screen layout disabled
  32. # [01:24] <joanie> got it
  33. # [01:24] <joanie> you have a keyboard shortcut to toggle it?
  34. # [01:24] <Jamie> Err, yes. NVDA+v. No, I don't remember why it's v
  35. # [01:24] <joanie> v is now verbosity due to clickable hell
  36. # [01:24] <Jamie> I mean, NVDA+s is speech mode, so I understand why we couldn't use that, but I'm not sure who came up with "v"
  37. # [01:25] * joanie shrugs
  38. # [01:25] <Jamie> Just be careful of blank lines. Our users often complain about pointless blank lines in non-screen layout. You may not be hit by that in your implementation, though
  39. # [01:26] <joanie> well, I still need to refine this a bit
  40. # [01:26] <Jamie> classic example: <a href="#">Hello</a> <a href="#">world</a>
  41. # [01:26] <joanie> I currently have the radio button on one line label on the next
  42. # [01:26] <Jamie> if you're not careful, you'll get one line for hello, another line with just a space for the space, and another line for world
  43. # [01:26] <joanie> but yeah, I have means to filter that out
  44. # [01:27] <joanie> maybe I should do that first
  45. # [01:27] <joanie> but the thing is, we're nearly in code freeze
  46. # [01:27] <joanie> and already in string freeze and gui freeze
  47. # [01:27] * Jamie grins
  48. # [01:27] <joanie> so I can push this to master
  49. # [01:27] <Jamie> don't give in to the temptation
  50. # [01:27] <joanie> I need to beg teams to bless putting it into stable
  51. # [01:27] <joanie> and my argument will be: look just 4 lines of code!
  52. # [01:28] <joanie> Users have demanded it!!
  53. # [01:28] <Jamie> hahaha.
  54. # [01:28] <Jamie> I wouldn't allow it if I were your release manager :)
  55. # [01:28] <joanie> Free Software sucks (says they) because Orca lacks these
  56. # [01:28] <joanie> I can commit the funtionality already
  57. # [01:28] <joanie> but users will have to edit a config file to enable it
  58. # [01:28] <joanie> users who lack the skills to do so!!! oh noes!
  59. # [01:28] * joanie grins
  60. # [01:28] <Jamie> We've gotten tighter and tighter about what we allow ina fter a freeze. been bitten too many times
  61. # [01:29] <joanie> this is a dead simple patch
  62. # [01:29] <joanie> two lines are a setting
  63. # [01:29] <joanie> one line is checking a setting
  64. # [01:29] <joanie> one line is doing an early return if the setting is true
  65. # [01:29] <joanie> that's it
  66. # [01:29] <Jamie> to the point where even for translations, I won't allow anything but the tiniest of very carefully reviewed changes once we go to rc
  67. # [01:29] * joanie nods
  68. # [01:30] <Jamie> yeah, if it's a hidden setting, that mitigates the risk somewhat
  69. # [01:30] <Jamie> if you tweak it, well, your loss if it breaks
  70. # [01:30] <joanie> no, this is going to work
  71. # [01:30] * Jamie chuckles
  72. # [01:30] <Jamie> watch for those blank lines :)
  73. # [01:30] <joanie> I perhaps should eliminate the spaces
  74. # [01:30] <joanie> and put radio button labels on the same line
  75. # [01:30] <joanie> just to be better than you
  76. # [01:30] <tbsaunde> joanie: Jamie have either of you guys seen cases of missing show / hide events? I'm finding some in e10s stuff
  77. # [01:31] <joanie> :P
  78. # [01:31] <Jamie> joanie: we do put labels on the same line I believe
  79. # [01:31] <Jamie> joanie: I can't remember the algorithm we use now
  80. # [01:31] <joanie> you told me in Toronto users had problems with radio buttons
  81. # [01:31] <joanie> I can do that already
  82. # [01:31] <Jamie> tbsaunde: I'm not sure. we tend ot rely more on textInserted/textRemoved.
  83. # [01:32] <joanie> ok, I'm going back to refining that
  84. # [01:32] <joanie> I have users to inspire to worship me
  85. # [01:32] <joanie> bwuahahahahaa
  86. # [01:32] <Jamie> joanie: no, I mean we render the label separately from the radio button, but not on a different line
  87. # [01:32] <joanie> we render it on the same line in the new (old) layout mode
  88. # [01:32] <tbsaunde> Jamie: huh, ok
  89. # [01:32] <joanie> in my four line patch we don't
  90. # [01:32] <Jamie> tbsaunde: any test cases?
  91. # [01:32] <joanie> but we can
  92. # [01:33] <joanie> anyhoo, I'm going to hack some more. Thanks for the info and tips!
  93. # [01:33] <tbsaunde> Jamie: nothing visible just asserts tripping when I visit google with my e10s patches
  94. # [01:33] <Jamie> joanie: scrap that, we do render labels on separate lines in non-screen layout
  95. # [01:34] <Jamie> well, we do if they have a <label>. I believe we render *text* on the same line, but anything that has an actual element gets pushed to a separate line
  96. # [01:34] <joanie> ha
  97. # [01:34] <joanie> yup
  98. # [01:34] <joanie> I'm going to filter this stuff out
  99. # [01:34] <Jamie> so <input type="radio"><label>foo</label> is separate lines, but <input type="radio">foo is not
  100. # [02:13] <joanie> Jamie: what if you have, say, links separated by space middle dot space, do you land on the intervening space because there's something there, or do you skip it because it's similar to punctuation?
  101. # [02:14] <Jamie> joanie: right or wrong, our rule isn't specific to space. it's specific to text that isn't within another element
  102. # [02:14] <Jamie> well, another accessible
  103. # [02:14] <joanie> but you said to watch out for space
  104. # [02:14] <joanie> which makes good sense
  105. # [02:14] <joanie> now I just added a stupid crap character to the space
  106. # [02:15] <joanie> or another example
  107. # [02:15] <joanie> <p>(<a href="link1">link</a>)(<a href="link2">another link</a>)</p>
  108. # [02:15] <joanie> the parens are not part of the link
  109. # [02:16] <joanie> what happens with NVDA?
  110. # [02:19] <Jamie> I just meant that spaces are the most obvious annoyance because it causes "blank" lines.
  111. # [02:20] <joanie> right, but as I'm testing in the wild, punctuation is annoying too
  112. # [02:20] <joanie> and I'm curious what you do.
  113. # [02:20] <Jamie> we read: (, link)(, another link)
  114. # [02:20] <Jamie> where commas are line breaks
  115. # [02:21] <joanie> so the right parens are part of the link "line" (object) in prsentation?
  116. # [02:21] <joanie> even though technically they are in the parent element?
  117. # [02:24] <Jamie> yes. what we promise is that each control that will be on a new line
  118. # [02:24] <Jamie> s/that //
  119. # [02:24] <Jamie> err, s/that will/will/
  120. # [02:24] <joanie> ok
  121. # [02:24] <joanie> makes sense
  122. # [02:24] <Jamie> well, it sort of makes sense
  123. # [02:24] <joanie> heh
  124. # [02:25] <Jamie> it's a bit of a hack really, but hey, it got rid of a lot of the blank lines users were complaining about (and trailing punctuation)
  125. # [02:25] * joanie nods
  126. # [02:25] <Jamie> and since I don't really care about non-screen layout, I'm happy if users are happy :)
  127. # [02:25] <joanie> that's why I'm doing it
  128. # [02:26] <joanie> one user said that in order to search for information about linux, he switches to windows
  129. # [02:26] <joanie> because you know orca only has layout mode
  130. # [02:26] <Jamie> btw, I think jaws would strip spaces but would render punctuation on separate lines, but I'm not certain of that; it's been a long time since I used JAWS
  131. # [02:26] <joanie> and that just sucks
  132. # [02:26] <joanie> Orca is currently doing something jawsy if my ancient memory is correct
  133. # [02:27] <joanie> I don't care enough to install windows though /me grins
  134. # [02:27] * Joins: Jamie1 (Instantbir@moz-CA26021.jantrid.net)
  135. # [02:28] * Quits: Jamie (Instantbir@moz-CA26021.jantrid.net) (Ping timeout)
  136. # [02:28] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  137. # [02:28] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  138. # [02:30] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-DF24A6EA.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: surkov)
  139. # [02:40] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-DF24A6EA.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  140. # [02:40] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  141. # [02:45] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout)
  142. # [02:52] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-DF24A6EA.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: surkov)
  143. # [03:27] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  144. # [03:33] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-DF24A6EA.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  145. # [03:33] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  146. # [03:37] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-99690620.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  147. # [03:42] * Quits: Gijs (chatzilla@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: sleep)
  148. # [03:54] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-DF24A6EA.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: surkov)
  149. # [03:55] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-DF24A6EA.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  150. # [03:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  151. # [04:29] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-DF24A6EA.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: surkov)
  152. # [04:47] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net) (Client exited)
  153. # [04:48] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  154. # [04:50] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net) (Ping timeout)
  155. # [05:15] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  156. # [05:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  157. # [05:16] * Quits: Bryen (Bryen@moz-97CDA41D.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) (Connection reset by peer)
  158. # [06:26] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-F47DD19B.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  159. # [06:29] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-F47DD19B.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Ping timeout)
  160. # [06:31] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-B19F68ED.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  161. # [07:10] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-396D494F.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  162. # [07:28] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-396D494F.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  163. # [07:28] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-396D494F.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  164. # [07:57] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-396D494F.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Quit: 10-79 Notify coroner, over and out)
  165. # [07:59] * Joins: dij (Mibbit@9B9315E1.A6025CA.1C37C358.IP)
  166. # [08:10] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-7AF1CB2A.cust.telenor.se)
  167. # [08:43] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-7AF1CB2A.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout)
  168. # [09:08] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  169. # [09:14] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  170. # [09:18] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout)
  171. # [09:19] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-ABCBD7A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  172. # [09:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  173. # [09:23] * Quits: mattur (sid16049@moz-A42E5B7B.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout)
  174. # [09:25] * Quits: ivan` (ivan@11E9065B.82B0558B.9510F13D.IP) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
  175. # [09:32] * Joins: ivan` (ivan@11E9065B.82B0558B.9510F13D.IP)
  176. # [09:33] * Joins: mattur (sid16049@moz-A42E5B7B.irccloud.com)
  177. # [09:45] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@D2069856.FE797095.222B27F0.IP)
  178. # [09:57] * Quits: mattur (sid16049@moz-A42E5B7B.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout)
  179. # [09:59] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-B19F68ED.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Quit: Leaving.)
  180. # [10:16] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  181. # [10:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  182. # [10:18] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  183. # [10:18] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout)
  184. # [10:44] * Joins: agibson (agibson@moz-2C643250.gate.cable.virginm.net)
  185. # [11:04] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  186. # [11:31] * Joins: mattur (sid16049@moz-A42E5B7B.irccloud.com)
  187. # [11:54] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@D2069856.FE797095.222B27F0.IP) (Quit: 10-79 Notify coroner, over and out)
  188. # [11:57] * Quits: dij (Mibbit@9B9315E1.A6025CA.1C37C358.IP) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  189. # [12:00] * Joins: Gijs (chatzilla@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com)
  190. # [12:07] <@firebot> vseerror@lehigh.edu changed the Resolution on bug 857319 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  191. # [12:07] <@firebot> vseerror@lehigh.edu changed the Status on bug 857319 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  192. # [12:07] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/857319 — DUPLICATE — crash in mozilla::a11y::sdnAccessible::Release
  193. # [12:21] * Quits: Gijs (chatzilla@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) (Input/output error)
  194. # [12:23] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-99690620.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Client exited)
  195. # [12:24] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-E37F359D.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  196. # [12:24] * Joins: Gijs (chatzilla@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com)
  197. # [12:26] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-E37F359D.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  198. # [12:29] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-2401F758.cust.telenor.se)
  199. # [12:52] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-2401F758.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout)
  200. # [12:55] * Joins: surkov (surkov@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  201. # [12:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  202. # [12:57] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
  203. # [13:06] <@firebot> vseerror@lehigh.edu changed the Component on bug 1066539 from Disability Access to Disability Access APIs.
  204. # [13:06] <@firebot> vseerror@lehigh.edu changed the Product on bug 1066539 from Thunderbird to Core.
  205. # [13:06] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1066539 — NEW — crash in mozilla::a11y::DocManager::AddListeners(nsIDocument*, bool)
  206. # [14:18] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca)
  207. # [14:18] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  208. # [14:20] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-F62769B5.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout)
  209. # [14:33] * Joins: Justin_o (uid14648@moz-E77DEB21.irccloud.com)
  210. # [14:55] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  211. # [15:01] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net) (Client exited)
  212. # [15:01] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  213. # [15:01] * agibson|afk is now known as agibson
  214. # [15:03] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net) (Ping timeout)
  215. # [15:05] * Quits: Gijs (chatzilla@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) (Input/output error)
  216. # [15:12] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 1020039 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  217. # [15:12] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1020039 from --- to FIXED.
  218. # [15:12] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1020039 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  219. # [15:12] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1020039 from --- to mozilla35.
  220. # [15:12] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1020039 — FIXED, surkov.alexander — Intermittent relations/test_embeds.xul | Can't get accessible for [object XULElement]
  221. # [15:13] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 1020039 from FIXED to ---.
  222. # [15:13] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 1020039 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
  223. # [15:15] * Joins: Gijs (chatzilla@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com)
  224. # [15:26] * Quits: Jamie1 (Instantbir@moz-CA26021.jantrid.net) (Quit: Instantbird 1.6a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
  225. # [15:27] * Joins: dij (Mibbit@9B9315E1.A6025CA.1C37C358.IP)
  226. # [15:38] * Joins: davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  227. # [15:38] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  228. # [15:40] * Joins: yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  229. # [15:40] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  230. # [15:47] <tbsaunde> surkov: so why don't you want to debug bug 1020039?
  231. # [15:47] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1020039 — REOPENED, surkov.alexander — Intermittent relations/test_embeds.xul | Can't get accessible for [object XULElement]
  232. # [15:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: how?
  233. # [15:48] <@davidb> tbsaunde, don't fall for it :)
  234. # [15:48] <tbsaunde> surkov: depends on what the issue
  235. # [15:48] <tbsaunde> is
  236. # [15:48] <tbsaunde> davidb: I'm not going to I just want surkov to
  237. # [15:49] <@davidb> surkov, what does "opa opa sralslasya" mean?
  238. # [15:49] <@surkov> just phrase for some song
  239. # [15:49] <@davidb> heh
  240. # [15:50] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  241. # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> Hi yzen! Any signs of when the patches will be aproved for 2.1? Any backchannel talk? :)
  242. # [15:55] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from dbolter@mozilla.com on bug 1064877.
  243. # [15:55] <@yzen> MarcoZ no, my guess is that most of the approvers/reviewers where in SF this week and are now or about to travel back home
  244. # [15:55] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1064877 — ASSIGNED, surkov.alexander — dexpcomify Accessible
  245. # [15:55] <@yzen> so it's slow a little
  246. # [15:57] <@yzen> MarcoZ btw i have 1 more bug that will need to be uplifted, cards view went through a refresh and regressed so that
  247. # [15:57] <tbsaunde> davidb: what's needinfo about?
  248. # [15:58] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Understood! :)
  249. # [15:58] <@davidb> tbsaunde, was just thinking it would be nice to take this review off your hands, but i don't know who yet.
  250. # [15:58] <@yzen> MarcoZ that's what we get for not having ui tests, my fault
  251. # [15:58] <@davidb> tbsaunde, have you begun it?
  252. # [15:58] <tbsaunde> davidb: meh, its fine, I'm maybe half done now
  253. # [15:58] <@davidb> oh cool i'll remove the NI then thanks
  254. # [15:58] <tbsaunde> just as I wait for builds and stuff
  255. # [15:59] <@davidb> ack
  256. # [15:59] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(dbolter@mozilla.com) on bug 1064877.
  257. # [16:03] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Quit: peace out)
  258. # [16:05] * Joins: davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  259. # [16:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  260. # [16:06] <@MarcoZ> davidb: y: tbsaunde: surkov: eeejay: Meeting on Monday at the usual time. Invitation sent. Current agenda https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings/2014-09-15
  261. # [16:07] <@MarcoZ> + yzen! ^
  262. # [16:07] <@MarcoZ> Dang tab key
  263. # [16:07] <@davidb> great
  264. # [16:07] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from georg.fritzsche@googlemail.com on bug 930005.
  265. # [16:07] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/930005 — NEW — Intermittent TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/tests/mochitest/even
  266. # [16:11] <@davidb> MarcoZ thanks, added e10s topic.
  267. # [16:11] * Joins: slee (chatzilla@moz-44F81FFB.range86-152.btcentralplus.com)
  268. # [16:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: kewl! :)
  269. # [16:17] <@yzen> MarcoZ this one bug 1010195 is still broken ?
  270. # [16:18] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1010195 — REOPENED — [AccessFu] Not possible to enter a SIM PIN on a FF OS phone
  271. # [16:20] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Connection reset by peer)
  272. # [16:20] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  273. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> yzen: No, this works now with the various keyboard and editing mode fixes. :)
  274. # [16:23] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1010195 from --- to WORKSFORME.
  275. # [16:23] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1010195 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  276. # [16:25] <@davidb> surkov, when is there no window?
  277. # [16:26] <@firebot> georg.fritzsche@googlemail.com cancelled needinfo?(georg.fritzsche@googlemail.com) on bug 930005.
  278. # [16:26] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/930005 — NEW — Intermittent TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/tests/mochitest/even
  279. # [16:27] <@surkov> davidb: when it crashes, that’s basically all I know, all methods having Get prefix don’t guarantee you to return not null result. I don’t have clue what TB makes speical to create a document with no window and don’t have good ideas how to figure that out
  280. # [16:28] <@surkov> what we get here with the patch: no crash and possibly some prolbems with a11y scrolling handling
  281. # [16:28] <@surkov> if we have a problme then we will figure that out I think
  282. # [16:28] <@davidb> ok
  283. # [16:29] <tbsaunde> surkov: it seems to happen in firefox too according to comments
  284. # [16:30] <@surkov> ok
  285. # [16:30] <tbsaunde> you should at least look at addons and stuff and see if there's some sort of corrilation
  286. # [16:30] <tbsaunde> but I'd really rather you tried to figure out what's happening
  287. # [16:30] <@surkov> I know
  288. # [16:31] <@davidb> yeah there is always cost in wallpapering
  289. # [16:32] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@50807EE2.7DCD925.CE255B90.IP)
  290. # [16:32] <@yzen> MarcoZ a ux question for you
  291. # [16:32] <@yzen> MarcoZ not sure if you noticed, but there is no more notifications icon/icon-count in the status bar anymore
  292. # [16:33] <@yzen> it was replaced with an ambient notification bar above the status bar (about 1-2px wide) that indicates that the's a notification
  293. # [16:33] <@yzen> so the issue is, it's a super small target for EBT
  294. # [16:34] <tbsaunde> surkov: so why don't you investigate?
  295. # [16:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think I have too much on my plate
  296. # [16:35] <@davidb> are you guys talking about 1066539 ?
  297. # [16:35] <@davidb> (i was)
  298. # [16:35] <tbsaunde> davidb: yes
  299. # [16:35] <tbsaunde> surkov: like what?
  300. # [16:36] <@surkov> davidb: yep
  301. # [16:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: like bug 1066539
  302. # [16:36] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1066539 — NEW — crash in mozilla::a11y::DocManager::AddListeners(nsIDocument*, bool)
  303. # [16:37] <@davidb> surkov that is the same bug :)
  304. # [16:37] <@surkov> I know but it is
  305. # [16:37] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yes, but it would still be accessible via swipe order.
  306. # [16:37] * Parts: @yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (leaving... bye!)
  307. # [16:38] <@MarcoZ> yzen: We should definitely indicate that there is a notification.
  308. # [16:38] * Joins: yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  309. # [16:38] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  310. # [16:38] <@yzen> MarcoZ yes
  311. # [16:38] <@MarcoZ> yzen: We should definitely indicate that there are notifications, if there are any.
  312. # [16:38] <@yzen> MarcoZ it is also a first item that the screen reader focuses on usually
  313. # [16:38] * @MarcoZ nods.
  314. # [16:39] <@yzen> MarcoZ we can only access them via the utility tray afaik
  315. # [16:41] <tbsaunde> surkov: huh?
  316. # [16:43] <@yzen> MarcoZ so my thinking was to describeby the status bar with the notification indicator and actually hide it ?
  317. # [16:43] <@yzen> like hide it from the screen reader
  318. # [16:44] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  319. # [16:45] <@MarcoZ> yzen: How would you describe it in the status bar?
  320. # [16:46] <@yzen> well the statusbar is a list of icons, if it was describedby notification indicator it would sound like : "battery 90% lastitem Statusbar one notification available"
  321. # [16:47] <@yzen> or "battery 90% lastitem Statusbar one update available"
  322. # [16:50] <tbsaunde> surkov: I still don't see what's so important
  323. # [16:54] <@yzen> MarcoZ thoughts ^ ?
  324. # [16:54] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I don’t really want to argue on bug priorites now but if you think this is something we need to discuss then we can do that on ongoing team meeting or in other format. Also I think you are always free to investigate this bug more if you want.
  325. # [16:55] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Sorry, was busy filing another bug I just found. Yes, this sounds OK to me!
  326. # [16:55] <@MarcoZ> If we don't know what kind of notification, keep it general, e. g. say "notification", not "update".
  327. # [16:55] <@yzen> ok ill try it out and see if it feels right, MarcoZ
  328. # [16:55] <@yzen> MarcoZ ack
  329. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Fantastic! Also, the keyboard collected bug 1066654 some time ago. Don't know exactly when, but should be easy to find.
  330. # [16:56] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1066654 — NEW — Accessibility: Shift key is always indicated as pressed to the screen reader even when it isn't
  331. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> yzen: BTW I have Master on my ZTE Open C, and 2.1 on my Flame, and the status bar again works great on Master! Can't wait till this lands! Good job!
  332. # [17:05] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, I'm being to not do that, but I'd probably not take that patch without more investigation
  333. # [17:10] <@davidb> tbsaunde, do you think bz could tell us when we can't expect a window?
  334. # [17:11] <@davidb> i'm really rusty here
  335. # [17:11] <@yzen> MarcoZ \o/
  336. # [17:12] <tbsaunde> davidb: maybe?
  337. # [17:12] <@davidb> i'll ask him
  338. # [17:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we have a crash, that’s a worse thing that can be. I’m pretty fine to keep that bug open if you want but I’d like to have null check landed (having assertion is also fine), at least until the bug has assignee who will to find correct solution. I hope that’s fair.
  339. # [17:15] <tbsaunde> I'm saying you should try and figure out why it crashes before preposing any fix
  340. # [17:16] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-EE42E0E.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  341. # [17:18] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from bzbarsky@mit.edu on bug 1066539.
  342. # [17:18] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1066539 — NEW — crash in mozilla::a11y::DocManager::AddListeners(nsIDocument*, bool)
  343. # [17:20] <@firebot> ehsan.akhgari@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(bzbarsky@mit.edu) on bug 1066539.
  344. # [17:26] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  345. # [17:29] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  346. # [17:29] * Joins: davidb_ (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  347. # [17:31] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net) (Ping timeout)
  348. # [17:31] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  349. # [17:32] * Quits: davidb_ (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  350. # [17:34] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  351. # [17:36] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  352. # [17:42] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  353. # [17:43] * Quits: Gijs (chatzilla@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: reboot time)
  354. # [17:44] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Client exited)
  355. # [17:44] * Joins: Gijs (gijs@moz-D2B81DF.range86-173.btcentralplus.com)
  356. # [17:47] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  357. # [17:50] * Joins: yliao_ (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  358. # [17:50] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  359. # [17:52] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-ABCBD7A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Weekend!)
  360. # [17:52] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  361. # [17:52] * Quits: yliao_ (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  362. # [17:54] * Gijs is now known as Gijs_away
  363. # [17:55] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  364. # [18:07] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  365. # [18:10] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  366. # [18:10] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  367. # [18:12] * Joins: yliao_ (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
  368. # [18:13] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  369. # [18:14] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@50807EE2.7DCD925.CE255B90.IP) (Ping timeout)
  370. # [18:14] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-D74C3E9A.cust.telenor.se)
  371. # [18:17] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-D74C3E9A.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout)
  372. # [18:20] * Joins: anvk (anovak@C141829F.3923648E.6468E038.IP)
  373. # [18:21] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-D74C3E9A.cust.telenor.se)
  374. # [18:22] * Quits: slee (chatzilla@moz-44F81FFB.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout)
  375. # [18:28] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-EE42E0E.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Quit: Leaving.)
  376. # [18:30] * Quits: yliao_ (yliao@moz-A6EFB7B1.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout)
  377. # [18:37] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  378. # [18:58] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-D74C3E9A.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout)
  379. # [18:58] * Joins: davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP)
  380. # [18:58] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  381. # [18:59] <@firebot> cpeterson@mozilla.com requested needinfo from felipc@gmail.com on bug 1047076.
  382. # [18:59] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1047076 — NEW, wmccloskey — Disable e10s on Nightly if Accessibility is enabled
  383. # [19:11] <@firebot> felipc@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(felipc@gmail.com) on bug 1047076.
  384. # [19:11] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1047076 — NEW, wmccloskey — Disable e10s on Nightly if Accessibility is enabled
  385. # [19:23] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
  386. # [19:28] <tbsaunde> surkov: is there some reason for where you add MOZ_OVERRIDE?
  387. # [19:29] <@surkov> tbsaunde: finally just clean up as I go, it was a part of some const changes I reverted
  388. # [19:37] * Joins: SteveF_ (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  389. # [19:37] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  390. # [19:37] <tbsaunde> surkov: ah
  391. # [19:37] <tbsaunde> just funny some thing become override and looks sort of random
  392. # [19:38] <@surkov> yeah
  393. # [19:38] <tbsaunde> it'd be nice if someone went around marking stuff final too
  394. # [19:38] <@surkov> at some point I just released the patch is getting too large
  395. # [19:38] <@surkov> yeah, one day I think we’ll do that
  396. # [19:38] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  397. # [19:38] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  398. # [19:39] <tbsaunde> yeah, I'd prefer this patch was broken up
  399. # [19:39] <@surkov> I bet
  400. # [19:39] * Quits: SteveF_ (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  401. # [19:40] <@surkov> I don’t like large patches also but during cleaning up it’s hard to find stop point sometimes
  402. # [19:40] <@surkov> becuase things goes in circle
  403. # [19:41] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  404. # [19:52] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  405. # [19:56] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  406. # [19:59] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net) (Client exited)
  407. # [19:59] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  408. # [20:01] * Quits: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net) (Ping timeout)
  409. # [20:13] * Quits: agibson|afk (agibson@moz-2C643250.gate.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: )
  410. # [20:30] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-2852E47C.dsl.bell.ca)
  411. # [20:30] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  412. # [20:33] * Quits: funnel (hegel@DEB31F3E.28CFCE3E.FC69BED9.IP) (Ping timeout)
  413. # [20:33] * Joins: funnel (hegel@DEB31F3E.28CFCE3E.FC69BED9.IP)
  414. # [20:37] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from wchen@mozilla.com on bug 1040735.
  415. # [20:37] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1040735 — ASSIGNED, surkov.alexander — crash in mozilla::a11y::Accessible::BindToParent(mozilla::a11y::Accessible*, unsigned int)
  416. # [21:00] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  417. # [21:01] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  418. # [21:01] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  419. # [21:24] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  420. # [21:26] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  421. # [21:43] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  422. # [21:56] <tbsaunde> surkov: we should finish making xpidl interfaces builtinclass someday
  423. # [21:59] * Joins: newtron (newtron@moz-8A56CC3B.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  424. # [22:00] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  425. # [22:14] * Quits: anvk (anovak@C141829F.3923648E.6468E038.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  426. # [22:31] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  427. # [22:35] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Ping timeout)
  428. # [22:36] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  429. # [22:37] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  430. # [22:39] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net)
  431. # [22:43] * Quits: khuey (khuey@moz-DB4A9C19.scl3.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
  432. # [22:45] * Joins: khuey (khuey@moz-DB4A9C19.scl3.mozilla.com)
  433. # Session Close: Fri Sep 12 22:53:52 2014
  434. #
  435. # Session Start: Fri Sep 12 22:53:53 2014
  436. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  437. # [22:53] * Disconnected
  438. # [22:54] * Attempting to rejoin channel #accessibility
  439. # [22:54] * Rejoined channel #accessibility
  440. # [22:54] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | http://is.gd/93saA4'
  441. # [22:54] * Set by davidb on Tue Aug 05 15:36:31
  442. # [23:05] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-6F24D0BD.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout)
  443. # [23:15] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-2852E47C.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  444. # [23:40] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 1066165 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
  445. # [23:40] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from dbolter@mozilla.com on bug 1066165.
  446. # [23:40] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1066165 — UNCONFIRMED — After using accessibility tool FF31 freezes while modifying the DOM with huge elements
  447. # Session Close: Sat Sep 13 00:00:00 2014

The end :)