/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-09-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Sep 15 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  55. # [13:21] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 1067053 from Untriaged to Keyboard Navigation.
  56. # [13:21] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from masayuki@d-toybox.com on bug 1067053.
  57. # [13:21] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1067053 — UNCONFIRMED — Tab switching shortcuts not processed correctly with Programmer Dvorak keyboard layout on OS X 10.6.
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  74. # [15:08] <@davidb> heyo
  75. # [15:11] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  76. # [15:12] <@davidb> hi hi
  77. # [15:16] <Gijs> MarcoZ: hey!
  78. # [15:17] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I have a question about bug 990045
  79. # [15:17] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/990045 — NEW — Don't Auto-focus the Save Password prompt
  80. # [15:17] <Gijs> MarcoZ: am I right in thinking none of the doorhangers should auto-focus?
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  84. # [15:29] <@davidb> Gijs, i think jamie would argue but i wouldn't
  85. # [15:29] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  86. # [15:31] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: I think they should not autofocus, no.
  87. # [15:31] <@MarcoZ> But they should be easily reachable with the keyboard once they pop up.
  88. # [15:32] <@MarcoZ> For example, the new doorhanger that asks whether one wants to participate in the Electrolysis test cannot be reached via F6 or Tab.
  89. # [15:33] <Gijs> MarcoZ: right. Would you expect the access keys in there to work before you navigate into the popup? :)
  90. # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> And this also seems to depend on whether another doorhanger is already displaying, for example I currently get frequent Sync error doorhangers that I don't act upon.
  91. # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Yes, I would.
  92. # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> They would be a quick way to enter the doorhanger, for example the password prompt menu button thingie.
  93. # [15:34] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I'm not sure they would/should...
  94. # [15:34] <Gijs> also because of potential conflicts with the top-level menu
  95. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Then what's the point of having an access key on them?
  96. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> On the buttons I mean?
  97. # [15:34] <Gijs> MarcoZ: much like the point of having them on the items inside menus... you can access them when the panel is active.
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  99. # [15:35] <@MarcoZ> Hm OK.
  100. # [15:35] <Gijs> MarcoZ: mind you, I've not tested this yet because I wrote my patch on OS X and I need a clobber on Windows.
  101. # [15:35] <@MarcoZ> Understood! :)
  102. # [15:35] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I can see what happens in 20-25 minutes.
  103. # [15:35] * Gijs is just worried it might not work
  104. # [15:36] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: First revisions of patches rarely do. :)
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  107. # [15:47] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: BTW I feel your pain re clobbers on Windows. Seems to be a hobby of M-C lately to require a clobber virtually every day.
  108. # [15:54] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  109. # [15:56] <@davidb> MarcoZ, did Marc Mulcahy's project ever take off? http://www.levelstar.com/
  110. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I never heard of it ever since aaronlev talked about it once, and never saw a device anywhere, neither mentioned nor shown at an exhibition.
  111. # [15:58] <@davidb> k
  112. # [15:58] <@MarcoZ> Or was it you who brought this to my attention years ago? Don't even recall.
  113. # [15:58] <@davidb> heh maybe
  114. # [15:58] <@davidb> but i think aaronlev pinged me about it back in 2011
  115. # [15:58] <@davidb> IIRC Janina had one for a while
  116. # [15:58] <@MarcoZ> She may have been the only one. ;)
  117. # [16:00] <@davidb> MarcoZ, chat in 3?
  118. # [16:00] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ready whenever you are!
  119. # [16:01] <@davidb> MarcoZ, ditto
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  123. # [16:09] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 990045 from nobody@mozilla.org to gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com.
  124. # [16:09] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 990045 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  125. # [16:09] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/990045 — ASSIGNED, gijskruitbosch+bugs — Don't Auto-focus the Save Password prompt
  126. # [16:11] <Gijs> MarcoZ: seems like the shortcut works in the e10s prompt at least
  127. # [16:11] <Gijs> MarcoZ: that ends up focusing the menu-button
  128. # [16:12] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I've added f?you on the bug, let me know if this does what you want. :)
  129. # [16:12] <@firebot> mmucci@mozilla.com requested qe-verify from the wind on bug 990045.
  130. # [16:13] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com granted qe-verify on bug 990045.
  131. # [16:14] * Joins: newtron (newtron@B24807A2.173A0FBA.35182819.IP)
  132. # [16:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from mzehe@mozilla.com on bug 1031188.
  133. # [16:22] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1031188 — NEW, eric — Ensure that accDescription never duplicates AccessibleName
  134. # [16:30] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(ryanvm@gmail.com) on bug 1020039.
  135. # [16:31] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox-esr to unaffected on bug 1020039.
  136. # [16:31] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox33 to fixed on bug 1020039.
  137. # [16:31] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox34 to fixed on bug 1020039.
  138. # [16:31] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox35 to fixed on bug 1020039.
  139. # [16:31] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1020039 — FIXED, surkov.alexander — Intermittent relations/test_embeds.xul | Can't get accessible for [object XULElement]
  140. # [16:33] <@davidb> surkov, i don't see patches on that bug? ^
  141. # [16:33] <@davidb> (just landings)
  142. # [16:34] <@surkov> davidb: that was minor changes to the test
  143. # [16:34] <@davidb> k
  144. # [16:37] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  145. # [16:37] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: Taking a look now and getting my own build clobbered so I can build and test.
  146. # [16:40] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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  150. # [16:49] <@davidb> surkov, who are you asking to use the profiler in bug 1066165?
  151. # [16:49] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1066165 — UNCONFIRMED — After using accessibility tool FF31 freezes while modifying the DOM with huge elements
  152. # [16:50] <@surkov> davidb: not anybody specific
  153. # [16:50] <@surkov> to anybody who can reproduce it
  154. # [16:52] <@firebot> mzehe@mozilla.com cancelled needinfo?(mzehe@mozilla.com) on bug 1031188.
  155. # [16:52] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1031188 — NEW, eric — Ensure that accDescription never duplicates AccessibleName
  156. # [16:53] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  157. # [17:11] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: So, I just completed the build with your patch, and I have a doorhanger right on the first-run page when I run this build with ./mach run.
  158. # [17:11] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: It asks me to set this copy of Firefox as my default browser.
  159. # [17:11] <Gijs> MarcoZ: that's an infobar
  160. # [17:11] <@MarcoZ> Gijs: F6, however, only toggles betwen the awesome bar and the page content.
  161. # [17:11] <Gijs> MarcoZ: not a doorhanger
  162. # [17:12] <@MarcoZ> WTF?
  163. # [17:12] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I don't know whose idea it was to have two types of UI for this with the same role
  164. # [17:12] <Gijs> but, one problem at a time, please :)
  165. # [17:12] <@MarcoZ> It sounds and behaves just like one. It's an alert, it has buttons with shortcuts, and it has a Close this Message button...
  166. # [17:12] <Gijs> yes, yes, and yes.
  167. # [17:12] <Gijs> it just goes to show that there's really very little point in having two UI implementations of what is really exactly the same thing
  168. # [17:13] <Gijs> but you can talk to the UX team about that
  169. # [17:13] <@MarcoZ> So up to now, I never knew that we actually have two UIs that sound and behave the same, but apparently look completely differently. What the hell???
  170. # [17:13] <Gijs> (from a visual perspective, they have different levels of "how much are we interrupting")
  171. # [17:13] <Gijs> MarcoZ: well, one of them you can choose not to interact with and it'll stay (the infobar)
  172. # [17:14] <Gijs> MarcoZ: the doorhanger will go away on a variety of user actions
  173. # [17:14] <Gijs> MarcoZ: in particular, clicking *anywhere* outside the doorhangers will close the doorhanger
  174. # [17:14] <Gijs> whereas the infobar will only go away if you tell it to
  175. # [17:14] <@MarcoZ> OK...And I just took those differences in behavior as annoying UI bugs/inconsistencies that nobody bothered to fix.
  176. # [17:14] <Gijs> otherwise it's going to sit there and take up ~20 pixels of space
  177. # [17:14] <Gijs> nope
  178. # [17:15] <Gijs> they're actually fairly deliberate!
  179. # [17:15] <@MarcoZ> Well no wonder I am having so much trouble communicating those interaction problems we're having to you guys! I never knew we could be talking about two completely different things here. :(
  180. # [17:15] * Gijs hugs MarcoZ
  181. # [17:16] <Gijs> it's OK!
  182. # [17:16] <Gijs> we'll get there in the end ;)
  183. # [17:16] <Gijs> I think none of us had realized that the difference wasn't obvious for non-sighted users
  184. # [17:16] <Gijs> which is interesting in and of itself for a whole host of reasons
  185. # [17:16] <@MarcoZ> Well from the markup, they certainly act exactly the same. They're both alert panels with buttons and alert text.
  186. # [17:16] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  187. # [17:16] <Gijs> right
  188. # [17:17] <Gijs> visually, the bar just stretches, so you always have a single line of text, and you generally only get about 2 buttons plus the (x) close me thingy on it
  189. # [17:17] <Gijs> the doorhanger has more room for text because the text wraps
  190. # [17:17] <Gijs> and in some cases ends up having multiple buttons on it
  191. # [17:17] <Gijs> we're going that way for webrtc stuff and tracking / mixed content protection
  192. # [17:18] <Gijs> those (will) have multiple controls
  193. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> Or a menu button and such.
  194. # [17:18] <Gijs> right
  195. # [17:18] <Gijs> I guess we get menu buttons on both
  196. # [17:18] <Gijs> although menu buttons on the infobar are... well
  197. # [17:18] <Gijs> they're not very sensibly implemented atm
  198. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> OK OK OK...We've got to clean up this mess. :)
  199. # [17:18] <Gijs> but that's not relevant :)
  200. # [17:18] <Gijs> well
  201. # [17:19] <Gijs> like I said, because of the difference persistence and so on, I expect UX will want to keep both forms
  202. # [17:19] <Gijs> if there is a more appropriate role we should use for either of them, I'm all ears
  203. # [17:19] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  204. # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> Yes, I am not suggesting we get rid of these. I just suggest we make it plain that these are two different things for screen reader users.
  205. # [17:20] * @MarcoZ scratches head.
  206. # [17:21] <@MarcoZ> No, both should be spoken when they appear. But they should say something like "Info bar" and something else sensible for door hangers. Not sure yet, since "door hanger" is only the code name, nothing a user would know the meaning of.
  207. # [17:22] <@MarcoZ> OK, let me deal with the bug at hand first and find a real doorhanger that I can focus.
  208. # [17:22] <Gijs> MarcoZ: there's a testcase in the bug :)
  209. # [17:29] <@davidb> MarcoZ, surkov, eeejay, tbsaunde, yzen, i'm in finch, ready when you are
  210. # [17:30] <@surkov> davidb: where is it?
  211. # [17:30] <@davidb> surkov, north east corner
  212. # [17:31] <@surkov> ok, will try to find :)
  213. # [17:31] * @MarcoZ fires up his Vidyo.
  214. # [17:34] <@davidb> MarcoZ, we're in accessibility
  215. # [17:35] <@firebot> mmucci@mozilla.com requested needinfo from gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com on bug 990045.
  216. # [17:35] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/990045 — ASSIGNED, gijskruitbosch+bugs — Don't Auto-focus the Save Password prompt
  217. # [17:39] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com) on bug 990045.
  218. # [17:41] * Gijs is now known as Gijs_away
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  221. # [18:21] <@firebot> New Firefox - Disability Access bug 1067446 filed by mzehe@mozilla.com.
  222. # [18:21] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1067446 — NEW — Make info bar and doorhangers distinguishable for screen readers
  223. # [18:21] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-ABCBD7A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: G'night all! Will be dreaming of doorhangers and info bars tonight. Yikes!)
  224. # [18:36] <@davidb> tbsaunde, i think we fire 'a11y-init-or-shutdown' for all platforms right?
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  226. # [18:44] <tbsaunde> davidb: I think so
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  228. # [18:45] <@davidb> will this effect android?
  229. # [18:46] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  230. # [18:46] <@davidb> affect
  231. # [18:47] <tbsaunde> davidb: if they turn on e10s there I guess so, but the e10s thing is in browser/ so I guess not?
  232. # [18:47] <@davidb> yeah
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  242. # [19:58] <tbsaunde> davidb: so, when are you going to review my patch?
  243. # [20:00] <@davidb> tbsaunde, i don't currently have any requests
  244. # [20:03] <tbsaunde> davidb: oh, hm
  245. # [20:04] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@13F2CEC5.7672369.D8E68FF6.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  246. # [20:04] <tbsaunde> I though I made you review something on friday
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  253. # [20:33] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1067509 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  254. # [20:33] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1067509 — NEW — [AccessFu] Refactor content tests.
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  256. # [20:49] <@davidb> tbsaunde, what patch are you talking about?
  257. # [20:59] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  258. # [21:22] <@davidb> eeejay, has seattle had any snow yet?
  259. # [21:22] <@davidb> i think some if forcast for wednesday
  260. # [21:23] <eeejay> wut??
  261. # [21:24] <eeejay> you are pulling my leg.
  262. # [21:24] <@davidb> 10-20% chance
  263. # [21:24] <@davidb> oh
  264. # [21:24] <@davidb> eeejay, nevermind - PEBKAC
  265. # [21:24] <eeejay> PEBKAC?
  266. # [21:25] <eeejay> i see 19 degrees and sunny
  267. # [21:25] <eeejay> you guys should enjoy this
  268. # [21:25] <@davidb> eeejay, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pebcak&l=1
  269. # [21:25] <eeejay> hm, i see.
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The end :)