/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-12-04 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 04 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:03] * Joins: yliao_ (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  4. # [00:04] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  5. # [00:05] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  6. # [00:06] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  7. # [00:06] * Quits: @yzen (uid14060@moz-huguk6.ealing.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  8. # [00:06] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  9. # [00:07] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  10. # [00:07] * Quits: yliao_ (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  11. # [00:11] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  12. # [00:14] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  13. # [00:14] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  14. # [00:16] <@firebot> sledru@mozilla.com requested needinfo from athena@fastmail.fm on bug 1105101.
  15. # [00:17] <@firebot> sledru@mozilla.com set status-firefox37 to fixed on bug 1105101.
  16. # [00:17] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1105101 — FIXED, athena@fastmail.fm — OS X CMD+Up and CMD+Down arrow key shortcuts no longer scroll web page
  17. # [00:19] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  18. # [00:27] * Quits: MrMazda (fmcz@moz-6psm3k.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.18/2009082712])
  19. # [00:29] <~davidb> tbsaunde, filing bugs?
  20. # [00:29] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  21. # [00:30] * Quits: agibson (agibson@moz-dhr.h1q.240.173.IP) (Quit: )
  22. # [00:39] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  23. # [00:39] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  24. # [00:41] * Joins: MrMazda (fmcz@moz-6psm3k.cable.mindspring.com)
  25. # [00:41] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  26. # [00:41] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  27. # [00:41] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  28. # [00:43] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-bb1p0n.ma.comcast.net)
  29. # [00:44] * Quits: webatou (Instantbird@moz-4dmpgt.b7kb.8e10.2788.2a02.IP) (Quit: Instantbird 1.5 -- http://www.instantbird.com)
  30. # [00:45] <joanie> surkov: Is it just me, or is role="text" a nightmare from which there is no escape?
  31. # [00:45] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  32. # [00:45] <@surkov> joanie: for it’s just one of ARIA stuff today ;)
  33. # [00:46] <~davidb> ?
  34. # [00:47] <tbsaunde> joanie: I haven't seen discussion from the last week or so, but it looks to me horrible and without good use cases
  35. # [00:47] <joanie> davidb: surkov and I have been going back and forth quite a bit on the mapping to ATK for ARIA's role="text"
  36. # [00:47] <~davidb> eeejay, yzen_, have a good workshop - sorry i can't make it, i have a conflicting meeting
  37. # [00:48] <@surkov> joanie: what you suggest is reasoable for use case they have
  38. # [00:48] <tbsaunde> davidb: what meeting?
  39. # [00:48] <@surkov> but then role is misnamed
  40. # [00:48] <joanie> surkov: yeah, I said that early on
  41. # [00:48] <~davidb> tbsaunde, admin meeting about immigration stuff
  42. # [00:48] <~davidb> (not yours)
  43. # [00:48] <tbsaunde> ah
  44. # [00:49] <joanie> surkov: anyhoo, I'm hoping my reply to you may help clarify things to others (like James Craig)
  45. # [00:49] <@surkov> yeah
  46. # [00:49] <joanie> because once we get an answer to "is this really text or not," I think the mappings will fall into place
  47. # [00:49] <joanie> for everyone; not just ATK
  48. # [00:49] <@surkov> agree
  49. # [00:50] <joanie> I mean for UIA, surely the text pattern wouldn't make sense
  50. # [00:50] <~davidb> joanie, i am so very pleased you are more involved in specs
  51. # [00:50] <joanie> whether or not James will also conclude "huh, maybe that 'text' name ain't such a hot idea after all." remains to be seen
  52. # [00:50] <joanie> davidb: I am too -- most days
  53. # [00:50] <joanie> ;)
  54. # [00:50] <~davidb> ehheh
  55. # [00:52] * Quits: @yzen_ (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  56. # [00:53] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  57. # [00:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  58. # [00:54] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  59. # [00:57] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  60. # [01:11] * Joins: yzen_ (uid14060@moz-huguk6.ealing.irccloud.com)
  61. # [01:11] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen_
  62. # [01:12] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  63. # [01:12] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  64. # [01:14] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-bb1p0n.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  65. # [01:24] * Joins: Gijs (gijs@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  66. # [01:29] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  67. # [01:38] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  68. # [01:38] * yzen_ is now known as yzen
  69. # [01:38] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  70. # [01:48] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  71. # [01:50] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1107334 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  72. # [01:50] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1107334 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — make GetChildCountCb deal with proxies
  73. # [01:57] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1107337 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  74. # [01:57] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1107337 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — refChildCB needs to deal with proxies
  75. # [01:59] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1107338 filed by tbsaunde+mozbugs@tbsaunde.org.
  76. # [01:59] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1107338 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Make getIndexInParentCB deal with proxies
  77. # [02:03] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  78. # [02:04] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net)
  79. # [02:04] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  80. # [02:21] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  81. # [02:34] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  82. # [02:40] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  83. # [02:53] * Joins: yzen_ (yzen@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net)
  84. # [02:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen_
  85. # [02:56] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  86. # [03:01] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  87. # [03:02] * Quits: Gijs (gijs@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  88. # [03:09] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-bb1p0n.ma.comcast.net)
  89. # [03:23] * Quits: @yzen_ (yzen@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  90. # [03:31] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  91. # [03:32] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  92. # [03:43] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP)
  93. # [03:43] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  94. # [03:44] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP)
  95. # [03:44] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  96. # [03:46] * Quits: @yzen (uid14060@moz-huguk6.ealing.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  97. # [03:54] <~davidb> firebot: fortune
  98. # [03:54] <@firebot> On the eighth day, God created FORTRAN.
  99. # [03:56] <&MarcoZ> *chuckles*
  100. # [03:57] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Would be fun to ask some of the young Mozillians if they still know what Fortran is. :)
  101. # [03:57] <~davidb> heh
  102. # [03:57] <~davidb> MarcoZ, the restaurant is about 1 min walk from the hotel
  103. # [03:57] <&MarcoZ> Heh nice!
  104. # [03:57] <~davidb> hehe
  105. # [04:13] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Should we meet at about 7:25?
  106. # [04:13] <&MarcoZ> Which is a little more than 10 minutes from now.
  107. # [04:13] <~davidb> MarcoZ, sure, your lobby
  108. # [04:13] * ~davidb goes to splash water on his face
  109. # [04:13] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  110. # [04:28] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP) (Client exited)
  111. # [04:38] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-bb1p0n.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  112. # [04:46] * Joins: MarcoZ_ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP)
  113. # [04:47] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  114. # [04:47] * MarcoZ_ is now known as MarcoZ
  115. # [05:35] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-bb1p0n.ma.comcast.net)
  116. # [06:07] * Quits: Justin_o (uid14648@moz-c6vipl.ealing.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  117. # [06:09] * Quits: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP) (Connection closed)
  118. # [06:10] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP)
  119. # [06:10] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  120. # [06:21] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  121. # [06:27] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-bb1p0n.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  122. # [06:45] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-fs8bmd.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  123. # [06:54] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net)
  124. # [06:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  125. # [06:56] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net)
  126. # [06:56] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  127. # [07:04] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP)
  128. # [07:04] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  129. # [07:19] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  130. # [07:22] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  131. # [07:23] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  132. # [07:23] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  133. # [07:23] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  134. # [07:25] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net) (Quit: peace out)
  135. # [07:28] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP) (Client exited)
  136. # [07:34] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  137. # [07:44] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net) (Connection closed)
  138. # [07:45] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net)
  139. # [07:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  140. # [08:10] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  141. # [08:12] * Tomcat|Afk is now known as Tomcat|sheriffduty
  142. # [08:16] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  143. # [08:33] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-fs8bmd.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Quit: Leaving.)
  144. # [08:35] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  145. # [08:39] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  146. # [08:43] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@moz-i4nh89.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  147. # [08:43] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  148. # [08:45] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  149. # [08:46] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  150. # [08:52] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  151. # [09:05] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  152. # [09:09] * Quits: @yzen_ (yzen@moz-dcpnm1.public.wayport.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  153. # [09:47] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  154. # [09:51] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  155. # [10:18] * Quits: kalli_ (fabian@moz-t4ph3v.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Quit: Leaving.)
  156. # [10:49] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  157. # [10:53] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  158. # [10:53] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net)
  159. # [11:26] * Joins: slee (chatzilla@moz-93hjmp.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)
  160. # [11:47] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-cn24r7.ffa0.hkcg.06a0.2001.IP)
  161. # [11:47] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  162. # [11:51] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  163. # [11:52] * Quits: askalski (akuda@moz-cn24r7.ffa0.hkcg.06a0.2001.IP) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  164. # [12:08] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  165. # [12:09] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net)
  166. # [12:47] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  167. # [12:51] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  168. # [12:51] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  169. # [13:02] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  170. # [13:06] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net)
  171. # [13:22] * Quits: slee (chatzilla@moz-93hjmp.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0/20141125180439])
  172. # [13:22] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  173. # [13:25] * Joins: slee (chatzilla@moz-93hjmp.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)
  174. # [13:29] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP)
  175. # [13:29] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  176. # [13:30] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP) (Client exited)
  177. # [13:47] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  178. # [13:51] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  179. # [14:42] * Joins: Justin_o (uid14648@moz-c6vipl.ealing.irccloud.com)
  180. # [14:45] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP)
  181. # [14:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  182. # [14:45] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP) (Client exited)
  183. # [14:45] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonza@moz-5t7jkp.fios.verizon.net)
  184. # [14:47] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP)
  185. # [14:47] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  186. # [14:47] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  187. # [14:51] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  188. # [14:52] * Joins: anvk (anovak@moz-871.mvk.11.204.IP)
  189. # [15:22] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP)
  190. # [15:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  191. # [15:36] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-c00.hak.245.50.IP)
  192. # [15:45] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-53grv0.public.wayport.net)
  193. # [15:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  194. # [15:47] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  195. # [15:48] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-53grv0.public.wayport.net)
  196. # [15:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  197. # [15:51] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  198. # [15:52] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  199. # [15:55] <~davidb> heyo
  200. # [15:57] * Quits: @yzen_ (yzen@moz-53grv0.public.wayport.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  201. # [15:58] <joanie> zomg surkov, there's a new and scary role="text" example. Example 15 is a serious wtfer. http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#text
  202. # [15:58] <@surkov> let me look
  203. # [15:58] <joanie> you'll wish you didn't but....
  204. # [15:58] * joanie waits
  205. # [15:59] * &MarcoZ tears hair out. This role="text" thing is so utterly utterly unnecessary...
  206. # [15:59] <&MarcoZ> Having said that: Good morning!
  207. # [16:00] <joanie> the original use case and problem to solve ("don't say image, don't pause") is I think valid
  208. # [16:00] * Joins: slee_ (chatzilla@moz-93hjmp.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)
  209. # [16:00] <joanie> calling it role="text" is kinda sucky
  210. # [16:00] <joanie> but whatever
  211. # [16:00] <joanie> example 15 turns a div with three child elements into a single "static text" item
  212. # [16:01] * Joins: clown (clown@moz-v6m.c3o.211.205.IP)
  213. # [16:01] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  214. # [16:01] <&MarcoZ> joanie: Doesn't alt="" do the trick here? It is, after all, designed, and has been for years, to indicate an image as decorative. If an image is marked up as such, NVDA completely ignores it and moves to the next text node. Users don't even notice it's there.
  215. # [16:01] <joanie> btw three child paragraph elements
  216. # [16:01] * Quits: slee (chatzilla@moz-93hjmp.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  217. # [16:01] * slee_ is now known as slee
  218. # [16:02] <joanie> i have another meeting now
  219. # [16:02] <joanie> but zomg
  220. # [16:03] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Hi! What's the plan for this morning re the Platform team meeting with Mitchell at 9? Do you know where that is gonna happen?
  221. # [16:03] <@surkov> I just even lesser understand role=“text”
  222. # [16:04] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Welcome to the club! It sounds like this is some abstract construct that nobody needs because we've had alt="" for decorative images for *ages*.
  223. # [16:05] <@surkov> MarcoZ: @alt technique allows no pause reading?
  224. # [16:05] <~davidb> MarcoZ, are you hearing about that from somewhere? (the mitchell thing)
  225. # [16:05] * Joins: MarcoZ_ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP)
  226. # [16:06] <MarcoZ_> Crap, lost connection.
  227. # [16:07] <~davidb> MarcoZ, i see something scheduled with mitchell from 10-11 in ballroom F
  228. # [16:07] <MarcoZ_> surkov: davidb: If you just replied to me a minute ago or so, I didn't see it.
  229. # [16:07] <~davidb> ack
  230. # [16:07] <MarcoZ_> davidb: Oh from 10! That sounds good.
  231. # [16:07] <MarcoZ_> When are we having breakfast? I'm kinda starving. :)
  232. # [16:07] <MarcoZ_> And which building?
  233. # [16:08] <@surkov> joanie: I have next suggestion for ARIA, role=“html”, for example, <div role=“html” aria-label=“<button></button>”</div> and div becomes a button
  234. # [16:08] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  235. # [16:08] * MarcoZ_ is now known as MarcoZ
  236. # [16:08] <@surkov> surkov: MarcoZ: @alt technique allows no pause reading?
  237. # [16:08] <joanie> hahahahahaha
  238. # [16:08] <@surkov> that was my question, MarcoZ
  239. # [16:08] <~davidb> surkov, bsmedberg has a session on measuring memory, at 11am, Belmont Room.
  240. # [16:08] <MarcoZ> surkov: As far as I know, NVDA just skips over graphics with alt="", without pausing.
  241. # [16:08] <@surkov> ok, good, which hotel?
  242. # [16:09] <MarcoZ> JAWS does the same AFAIK.
  243. # [16:09] <@surkov> MarcoZ: how to add “love” text instead img?
  244. # [16:09] <MarcoZ> surkov: LOOOOOOOOL! I feel tempted to troll the WAI-PF list with that example! :)
  245. # [16:09] <~davidb> surkov, the same as our platform room i hope
  246. # [16:09] <@surkov> MarcoZ: :)
  247. # [16:09] <@surkov> davidb: got it
  248. # [16:10] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I afraid something like that will be suggested with no trolling :)
  249. # [16:10] <@surkov> and then accepted
  250. # [16:10] <MarcoZ> surkov: Hm, my initial thought was "why not put it into the alt text"? Oh right, because we want to strip the fact that it's a graphic.
  251. # [16:11] <MarcoZ> Sheesh this is such an utter mess...
  252. # [16:12] <MarcoZ> And that before breakfast....I'm too old for this shit. ;)
  253. # [16:14] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  254. # [16:15] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  255. # [16:18] * Quits: slee (chatzilla@moz-93hjmp.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  256. # [16:25] <&MarcoZ> davidb: What about breakfast?
  257. # [16:25] <~davidb> MarcoZ, i can't think about food :)
  258. # [16:25] <~davidb> what do you want to do?
  259. # [16:26] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Oh, why not? Upset stomach?
  260. # [16:26] <~davidb> still full
  261. # [16:27] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Breakfast over at your tower sounds fine to me. :) I think I could try to make my way over, the traffic lights sound logical.
  262. # [16:27] <&MarcoZ> So, meet in your lobby in about 10 mins?
  263. # [16:27] <~davidb> MarcoZ, i'm happy to meet you in your lobby too, just say the word.
  264. # [16:28] <&MarcoZ> Hm, no, I think I'll try my luck. :)
  265. # [16:28] <~davidb> ok i'll be down in 10
  266. # [16:28] <&MarcoZ> (famous last words ;) )
  267. # [16:28] <&MarcoZ> By me, not you.
  268. # [16:28] <~davidb> :)
  269. # [16:30] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-53grv0.public.wayport.net) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  270. # [16:33] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  271. # [16:48] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  272. # [16:48] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  273. # [16:50] <aaronlev> hi SteveF
  274. # [16:50] <SteveF> hi aaron
  275. # [16:51] <aaronlev> SteveF: we're getting farther with our accessible SVG UI for sitecues
  276. # [16:52] <SteveF> cool!
  277. # [16:58] <SteveF> aaonlev: any issues you have been coming against?
  278. # [16:59] <SteveF> aaronlev: ^^
  279. # [17:00] <aaronlev> yes definitely
  280. # [17:00] <aaronlev> but, it can be made to work if you put aria-activedescendant on an html element that parents the svg
  281. # [17:01] <aaronlev> right now having a hard time getting IE+JAWS working
  282. # [17:01] <aaronlev> actually the issue might only be that we're not triggering forms mode, i need to look at it again
  283. # [17:09] <aaronlev> is there any update to canvas accessibility since your last blog post on it?
  284. # [17:09] <aaronlev> like, would you consider it usable?
  285. # [17:10] <aaronlev> we're not planning to use it but i thought it would be nice to provide this info in our talk
  286. # [17:10] <aaronlev> (plus i'm really curious)
  287. # [17:25] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-ql8.f65.16.107.IP) (Client exited)
  288. # [17:29] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  289. # [17:47] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-fs8bmd.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  290. # [17:55] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  291. # [18:01] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  292. # [18:03] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  293. # [18:10] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-fs8bmd.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Quit: Leaving.)
  294. # [18:15] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  295. # [18:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  296. # [18:19] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  297. # [18:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  298. # [18:22] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Quit: Need to update Nightly.)
  299. # [18:25] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  300. # [18:25] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  301. # [18:26] * Joins: Gijs (gijs@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  302. # [18:34] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  303. # [18:42] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-c00.hak.245.50.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  304. # [18:43] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  305. # [18:46] * Quits: clown (clown@moz-v6m.c3o.211.205.IP) (Connection closed)
  306. # [18:46] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  307. # [18:46] * Joins: clown (clown@moz-v6m.c3o.211.205.IP)
  308. # [18:48] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  309. # [18:49] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  310. # [18:54] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  311. # [18:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  312. # [18:55] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Hi! Any new ideas on bug 1106942? Did my last comment make any sense? :)
  313. # [18:56] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1106942 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — New Search UI is inaccessible to screen readers
  314. # [18:56] <Gijs> MarcoZ: it makes sense, but I have no ideas
  315. # [18:56] <Gijs> MarcoZ: mostly because I don't have a windows machine with me and have been busy with other things
  316. # [18:56] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Where does the code live that creates this thing?
  317. # [18:56] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  318. # [18:56] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  319. # [18:56] <Gijs> MarcoZ: XBL binding in browser/base/content/urlbarbinding or whatever it's called.
  320. # [18:56] <Gijs> MarcoZ: we're extending the existing binding
  321. # [18:58] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Hm, maybe it makes more sense if I looked at the patch that made the specific changes. Can you get me either the bug or the changeset?
  322. # [18:58] <Gijs> MarcoZ: yes, sec
  323. # [18:58] <Gijs> MarcoZ: bug 1088660
  324. # [18:58] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1088660 — FIXED, florian@queze.net — Improve the search bar UI to support one-off searches
  325. # [18:58] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I actually don't know what's creating the accessibles here
  326. # [18:58] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I didn't see any role/nsIAcc* things
  327. # [18:59] <Gijs> (but that is true for the existing binding as well, I believe)
  328. # [18:59] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  329. # [18:59] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  330. # [18:59] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  331. # [19:00] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: We have many defaults for XUL/SBL bindings.
  332. # [19:00] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  333. # [19:00] <&MarcoZ> XBL
  334. # [19:02] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  335. # [19:02] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  336. # [19:03] <Gijs> MarcoZ: where do those live?
  337. # [19:03] <Gijs> MarcoZ: we inserted a header before the list of items, which I think is the only thing I can think of that would have broken this
  338. # [19:05] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: In toolkit and in accessible/.
  339. # [19:05] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but it's a pain to inspect all this stuff because the popup gets hidden and then everything goes away and no inspection and sadness
  340. # [19:05] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: I know. That's why I wanna look at the patch. :)
  341. # [19:05] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  342. # [19:06] <Gijs> MarcoZ: anything more specific, esp. in toolkit? Is this stuff meant to live in the binding itself?
  343. # [19:09] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Part of it, yes.
  344. # [19:10] <Gijs> MarcoZ: so AIUI this should be using (and was using) nsIAccessibleTable ?
  345. # [19:10] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: The XBL bindings tell the Accessible/ code what accessibles it should create.
  346. # [19:10] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Yes, in theory.
  347. # [19:10] <Gijs> MarcoZ: this is odd though because the binding we were using before now *also* wasn't saying anything, AFAICT
  348. # [19:11] <Gijs> MarcoZ: fwiw, you can turn this feature off with a pref
  349. # [19:11] <Gijs> MarcoZ: particularly browser.search.showOneOffButtons
  350. # [19:13] <Gijs> MarcoZ: so the old binding was browser-autocomplete-result-popup, ie http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/urlbarBindings.xml#899
  351. # [19:13] <Gijs> MarcoZ: which extends http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/content/widgets/autocomplete.xml#602
  352. # [19:13] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-c00.hak.245.50.IP)
  353. # [19:16] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: This all looks correct.
  354. # [19:16] <Gijs> MarcoZ: right, which is why I'm so surprised at how broken it is :(
  355. # [19:17] <&MarcoZ> Yeah, me too. And I definitely saw the old one working. And the Awesomebar autocomplete still works fine, so there doesn't seem to be general breakage.
  356. # [19:17] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: ^
  357. # [19:18] <Gijs> right
  358. # [19:19] <Gijs> MarcoZ: do you have a build?
  359. # [19:19] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  360. # [19:20] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I wonder if this starts working if you remove the stuff here: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/urlbarBindings.xml#998
  361. # [19:20] <Gijs> that toggles between the "reduced" and non-reduced popup
  362. # [19:20] <Gijs> MarcoZ: iow the collapsed changing in the popupshowing handler might be... interesting... for a11y
  363. # [19:21] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: I currently do not have an up to date build, and am only running on battery ATM.
  364. # [19:21] <Gijs> ok
  365. # [19:21] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I can see if I can look at this when jaws is around...
  366. # [19:22] <&MarcoZ> OK!
  367. # [19:22] * &MarcoZ still finds it irritating that one Mozillian uses the same nick name as the product name of a particular screen reader. ;)
  368. # [19:25] <Gijs> I thought we only really cared about NVDA now? :P
  369. # [19:25] <&MarcoZ> :D
  370. # [19:26] <&MarcoZ> I'm really baffled. It is hard to tell apart which of this is about the new search buttons and which is about the search terms/suggestions/history. Like what are the one-off thingies, are those the buttons?
  371. # [19:26] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  372. # [19:27] <Gijs> MarcoZ: they're buttons that let you search with an arbitrary opensearch provider you have installed without changing the default
  373. # [19:28] <Gijs> MarcoZ: this makes it easier to e.g. do a one-off search on amazon/ebay/wikipedia without changing the default search away from whatever it is set to
  374. # [19:32] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Yeah OK. They have some other problem, which we can deal with separately, in that the buttons are all children of a label. Which is kind of odd.
  375. # [19:32] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: So, the search autocomplete list is a tree with class "autocomplete-tree plain search-panel-tree"
  376. # [19:32] <Gijs> MarcoZ: right
  377. # [19:33] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: It looks to me like whenever keyboard focus changes upon the press of down arrow, the accessibles get destroyed and recreated.
  378. # [19:34] <&MarcoZ> In essence, keyboard focus lands on something that gets defunct. However, if I then search for the accessibles with NVDA's navigator, which always give me a current snapshot, I find the search history popup.
  379. # [19:34] <&MarcoZ> That also shows me which item is selected. So somehow maybe the tree gets re-drawn or some other thing that causes the accessibles to get defunct, but *after* keyboard focus lands on the item.
  380. # [19:36] <Gijs> MarcoZ: what does "defunct" mean in this context?
  381. # [19:36] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: The accessible simply goes away.
  382. # [19:37] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: It is no longer valid. All calls to what NVDA thinks has received keyboard focus lead to an error. So that's where the "Unknown" you heard of came from.
  383. # [19:37] <Gijs> MarcoZ: OK.
  384. # [19:38] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  385. # [19:38] <Gijs> MarcoZ: can you identify accessibles in any way beyond the label, using accinspect or whatever?
  386. # [19:38] <Gijs> MarcoZ: in particular, I suspect that trees doing that is as old as the world
  387. # [19:39] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but whatever we're doing now means that the focus changes at a different point in time and so stuff breaks
  388. # [19:39] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Yes. I find a list with the class I mentioned above, which is created from a xul:tree, and children of that. One is a list with column headers, and the other children are current history items. However, they get created *after* keyboard focus is set, which makes me think the tree gets redrawn/recreated somehow after keyboard focus has changed.
  389. # [19:39] <Gijs> MarcoZ: in other words, I would like to know if you can check whether the accessibles were permanent in 33
  390. # [19:40] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  391. # [19:41] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Let me check. Need to log off, don't have -no-remote set up atm.
  392. # [19:42] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Quit: Checking...)
  393. # [19:44] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  394. # [19:44] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  395. # [19:48] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  396. # [19:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  397. # [20:01] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  398. # [20:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  399. # [20:02] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Definitely confirmed the regression range. Good build 2014-11-27, bad build 2014-11-28 nightly.
  400. # [20:04] <Gijs> MarcoZ: yeah, but that a11y info is weird
  401. # [20:04] <Gijs> MarcoZ: clearly focus is broken in both cases
  402. # [20:04] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but in one the role is different from the other
  403. # [20:05] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  404. # [20:05] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Oh, this was not the focused child of that tree, but rather the root of the tree.
  405. # [20:05] <~davidb> eeejay, i already talked to dcamp :)
  406. # [20:05] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: I did that on purpose since that is the mostobvious difference from the top level of that sub tree.
  407. # [20:06] * icaaq is now known as icaaq|afk
  408. # [20:06] <~davidb> eeejay, he has some guys who will add any API you ask for, with priority.
  409. # [20:06] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I would still like to know what the item looks like
  410. # [20:06] <@eeejay> davidb: sweet :)
  411. # [20:06] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but the toplevel difference is also weird
  412. # [20:06] <~davidb> eeejay, for now dcamp is your first point of contact.
  413. # [20:07] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Let me get that for you.
  414. # [20:08] * icaaq|afk is now known as icaaq
  415. # [20:09] <Gijs> I've just doublechecked and the tree info hasn't changed at all
  416. # [20:09] <Gijs> I mean
  417. # [20:10] <Gijs> the a11y info has clearly changed
  418. # [20:10] <Gijs> but the tree hasn't
  419. # [20:10] <Gijs> which is super weird
  420. # [20:10] <Gijs> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/xul/XULTreeAccessible.cpp#169
  421. # [20:10] <Gijs> that seems vaguely suspect
  422. # [20:11] <Gijs> MarcoZ: so that has role LIST_ITEM
  423. # [20:12] <Gijs> MarcoZ: but in the working 33 version, the role of the outer grid/tree/thing is ROLE_TABLE
  424. # [20:13] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Yes. I don't know what causes the tree frame not to be created. But I suspect it is something in the CSS. The class is different in the two trees.
  425. # [20:13] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Perhaps surkov can speak to what may cause the above to not create a tree frame.
  426. # [20:13] <@surkov> what’s up?
  427. # [20:13] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  428. # [20:14] <&MarcoZ> surkov: bug 1106942.
  429. # [20:14] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1106942 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — New Search UI is inaccessible to screen readers
  430. # [20:14] <@surkov> lemme look
  431. # [20:14] <&MarcoZ> surkov: For some reason, the tree table that is generated for the search history items is different starting in the 2014-11-28 build, as you can see in the NVDA object info I posted.
  432. # [20:15] <@surkov> looks like the event is fired for something that dies shortly after?
  433. # [20:16] <&MarcoZ> surkov: That is my suspicion, too. The question is: Why?
  434. # [20:16] <&MarcoZ> I mean, why does it die?
  435. # [20:16] <@surkov> I guess sowething changes the tree
  436. # [20:16] <@surkov> like style stuff
  437. # [20:16] <@surkov> would be great if somebody check out that in DOMi
  438. # [20:17] <@surkov> it can print accessible tree shanhots for events
  439. # [20:17] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Yes, CSS changes affect accessible (re)creation. So if gijs can figure out what changes were made to the CSS of that thing, it may get us closer to a reason.
  440. # [20:17] <Gijs> surkov: can you reproduce this and do you have a build? :)
  441. # [20:17] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  442. # [20:17] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  443. # [20:17] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Yes, but only with e10s turned off. :)
  444. # [20:18] * Quits: @yzen_ (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  445. # [20:18] <Gijs> surkov: I suspect the collapsed settings at the top of the binding
  446. # [20:18] <@surkov> I have fresh build fx on mac
  447. # [20:18] <@surkov> not sure if it has working DOMi
  448. # [20:20] <@surkov> yeah, DOMi doesn’t work
  449. # [20:21] <@surkov> how to make sure firefox is not in e10s, MarcoZ
  450. # [20:25] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Toggle browser.tabs.remote.autostart.disabled-because-using-a11y in about:config.
  451. # [20:26] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I don’t have this pref
  452. # [20:26] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Meaning set to true.
  453. # [20:26] <@surkov> ok
  454. # [20:26] <&MarcoZ> Just add it, then.
  455. # [20:28] <@surkov> MarcoZ: where is that broken UI?
  456. # [20:28] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Search field at top right, enter something and press downarrow.
  457. # [20:28] <@surkov> cmd+K field?
  458. # [20:28] <&MarcoZ> Yup.
  459. # [20:29] <@surkov> and that dropdown list is supposed to be accessible?
  460. # [20:29] <&MarcoZ> surkov: Yes. And it is in the 2014-11-27 nightly build, but not in the 2014-11-28 one.
  461. # [20:31] <~davidb> tbsaunde, here is the current plan. 12-1 Mitchell in Ballroom F, 1pm e10s (I'll find room), 4pm e10s Q&A (I'll find out if we should attend this)
  462. # [20:31] <~davidb> surkov, did you go to the memory measuring thing?
  463. # [20:32] <@surkov> nope
  464. # [20:32] <@surkov> is it still running?
  465. # [20:33] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  466. # [20:33] <@surkov> MarcoZ, I don’t see any suspicious, no descruction/construction of the tree
  467. # [20:34] <&MarcoZ> surkov: That is...weird...
  468. # [20:34] <~davidb> (e10s probably in Belmont room)
  469. # [20:34] <@surkov> XUL:tree gets focus when I move through the list and that’s it
  470. # [20:34] <&MarcoZ> surkov: it is definitely broken on Windows it appears.
  471. # [20:34] <@surkov> MarcoZ: did you ping Jamie?
  472. # [20:34] <~davidb> surkov, not still running
  473. # [20:35] <&MarcoZ> surkov: No, not yet, since I thought this was in the UI code, not ours, since it is directly related to the new search UI additions.
  474. # [20:36] <@surkov> btw, I don’t see focus event when I arrow through search engine buttons
  475. # [20:36] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  476. # [20:36] <@surkov> Gijs might have ideas on it
  477. # [20:42] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  478. # [20:42] * Gijs reads scrollback
  479. # [20:43] <Gijs> the buttons are a separate issue
  480. # [20:44] <&MarcoZ> Right.
  481. # [20:44] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: You said you had already filed a bug on the buttons issue. Can you give me the bug number or CC me to it?
  482. # [20:44] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net)
  483. # [20:50] <Gijs> MarcoZ: I don't think there is?
  484. # [20:50] <Gijs> MarcoZ: about the buttons not being accessible, I mean
  485. # [20:52] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  486. # [20:52] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  487. # [20:53] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: Oh! Oh wait, you mentioned something the other day. Was this about the tab order?
  488. # [20:53] <Gijs> MarcoZ: yes
  489. # [20:53] <Gijs> MarcoZ: bug 1104142
  490. # [20:53] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1104142 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Shift-tab doesn't go back to location bar if there is text in the search field
  491. # [20:53] <&MarcoZ> Gijs: OK, going to file another bug for the buttons.
  492. # [20:53] <Gijs> MarcoZ: yes please.
  493. # [20:54] <&MarcoZ> After the upcoming event...
  494. # [20:58] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  495. # [20:59] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  496. # [21:03] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  497. # [21:12] * Quits: Gijs (gijs@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  498. # [21:12] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  499. # [21:12] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  500. # [21:12] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  501. # [21:12] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  502. # [21:13] * Joins: Gijs (gijs@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  503. # [21:13] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  504. # [21:13] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  505. # [21:21] <SteveF> aaronlev: canvas sub dom is available in all major browsers
  506. # [21:22] <aaronlev> cool
  507. # [21:22] <aaronlev> our SVG+ARIA isn't working very well except for in firefox
  508. # [21:22] <aaronlev> you can see it here
  509. # [21:22] <aaronlev> http://ts.dev.sitecues.com/bp2/
  510. # [21:23] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  511. # [21:23] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  512. # [21:24] <SteveF> aaronlev: will check it out video here on current state of canvas accessibility https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbiYLbnWjxg
  513. # [21:25] <aaronlev> thanks
  514. # [21:25] <SteveF> aaronlev: some testing I did late last year on SVG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/SVG/index.html may have something useful in there
  515. # [21:26] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  516. # [21:27] <aaronlev> SteveF: we did find some of that info
  517. # [21:27] <aaronlev> i guess what we're doing is more of an SVG based dialog
  518. # [21:27] <aaronlev> with sub-elements that are interactive
  519. # [21:27] <aaronlev> e.g. a slider
  520. # [21:28] <SteveF> aaronlev:right interesting problem space :-)
  521. # [21:30] <SteveF> aaronlev: i believe tabinde can now be used on svg elements (as in its supported in some browsers
  522. # [21:30] <SteveF> tabindex
  523. # [21:30] <aaronlev> yeah not in firefox
  524. # [21:30] <aaronlev> we could use tabindex in the other browsers and aria-activedescendant in ours
  525. # [21:30] <aaronlev> we could use tabindex in the other browsers and aria-activedescendant in firefox
  526. # [21:31] <aaronlev> "ours" :)
  527. # [21:31] <aaronlev> firefox = our browser in my head
  528. # [21:35] <~davidb> (radio silence here is because mitchell is talking to us IRL)
  529. # [21:37] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  530. # [21:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  531. # [21:41] <aaronlev> hi mitchell!
  532. # [21:41] <aaronlev> :)
  533. # [21:46] <SteveF> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778654
  534. # [21:46] <@firebot> Bug 778654 — NEW, cabanier@adobe.com — implement tabindex attribute for SVG content
  535. # [21:47] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox36 to fixed on bug 1105101.
  536. # [21:48] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1105101 — FIXED, athena@fastmail.fm — OS X CMD+Up and CMD+Down arrow key shortcuts no longer scroll web page
  537. # [21:50] * Quits: Gijs (gijs@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  538. # [21:53] <aaronlev> SteveF: yeah, not implemented yet
  539. # [21:53] <aaronlev> so we manage our own tabbing and focus outline, and use aria-activedescendant
  540. # [21:53] * SteveF close though
  541. # [21:54] <aaronlev> simple in theory
  542. # [21:54] <aaronlev> maybe
  543. # [21:54] <aaronlev> i'm not sure does @tabindex work in IE SVG?
  544. # [21:54] <aaronlev> i mean JS + aria seemed like the only thing that could give us results across browsers
  545. # [21:54] <aaronlev> for the forseeable future
  546. # [21:55] <~davidb> (aaronlev, i would say hi from you but this is a room of hundreds :) )
  547. # [21:55] <aaronlev> haha :)
  548. # [21:56] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  549. # [21:57] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  550. # [21:58] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  551. # [22:00] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  552. # [22:00] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  553. # [22:02] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  554. # [22:02] * Joins: Gijs (gijs@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  555. # [22:04] * yzen_ is now known as yzen
  556. # [22:04] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  557. # [22:04] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  558. # [22:08] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  559. # [22:10] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  560. # [22:14] * Quits: anvk (anovak@moz-871.mvk.11.204.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  561. # [22:17] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  562. # [22:22] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  563. # [22:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  564. # [22:24] <&MarcoZ> eeejay: Do you happen to know if there is any desert?
  565. # [22:25] <@eeejay> MarcoZ: I'll check!
  566. # [22:25] <&MarcoZ> eeejay: Thank you!
  567. # [22:36] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  568. # [22:37] * Quits: icaaq (icaaq@moz-i4nh89.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: 10-79 Notify coroner, over and out)
  569. # [22:39] <@firebot> gijskruitbosch+bugs@gmail.com requested needinfo from philipp@mozilla.com on bug 1052569.
  570. # [22:39] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1052569 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Prevent web pages from overriding core tab/window-management and clipboard shortcuts
  571. # [22:43] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  572. # [22:43] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  573. # [22:56] * Parts: clown (clown@moz-v6m.c3o.211.205.IP)
  574. # [22:56] * Joins: MarcoZ_ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  575. # [22:57] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  576. # [22:59] * Quits: &MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  577. # [23:00] * Quits: MarcoZ_ (marco.zehe@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  578. # [23:02] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  579. # [23:03] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  580. # [23:05] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Client exited)
  581. # [23:08] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  582. # [23:20] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-c00.hak.245.50.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
  583. # [23:25] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  584. # [23:31] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  585. # [23:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  586. # [23:35] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6q3.8hn.240.173.IP)
  587. # [23:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  588. # [23:37] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  589. # [23:40] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Made it to the Hilton perfectly OK! :) And made a connection to the WebMaker team along the way.
  590. # [23:43] <~davidb> sweet
  591. # [23:46] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  592. # [23:46] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  593. # [23:52] * Joins: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-80j6qs.cable.virginm.net)
  594. # [23:54] * Quits: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  595. # [23:55] * yzen is now known as yzen_
  596. # [23:57] * Joins: yzen (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  597. # [23:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +o yzen
  598. # [23:57] * Quits: @yzen_ (yzen@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Connection closed)
  599. # [23:57] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  600. # [23:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  601. # [23:58] * Joins: yliao (yliao@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP)
  602. # [23:58] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Dinner plan works for me.
  603. # [23:59] <~davidb> ok
  604. # [00:00] * Quits: ~davidb (davidb@moz-v9u.2j8.216.12.IP) (Quit: Blah blah blah)
  605. # Session Close: Fri Dec 05 00:00:00 2014

The end :)