/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-12-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Dec 07 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  62. # [19:42] <joanie> tbsaunde: Yo. By which I mean, ping.
  63. # [20:04] <tbsaunde> joanie: heya
  64. # [20:08] <joanie> tbsaunde: you're going to hate me but.... How hard is it to add a fake accessible into the tree?
  65. # [20:08] <joanie> (and give it children)
  66. # [20:11] <tbsaunde> joanie: I think depends
  67. # [20:11] <tbsaunde> erg, I think it depends
  68. # [20:12] <joanie> hmmmm
  69. # [20:12] <tbsaunde> joanie: details?
  70. # [20:12] <joanie> the problem to be solved is mathml accessibility, in particular for the mmultiscripts element
  71. # [20:12] <joanie> mathml spec relies on child position
  72. # [20:12] <joanie> base is the first child
  73. # [20:12] <joanie> then a series of sub scripts and super scripts
  74. # [20:13] <tbsaunde> ok
  75. # [20:13] <joanie> then (here comes the actual use case)
  76. # [20:13] <joanie> an mprescripts element
  77. # [20:13] <joanie> which has no children
  78. # [20:13] <joanie> and is followed by the functional children, namely the pre subs and post subs
  79. # [20:13] <joanie> apparently there is (in gecko) an accessible object for <mprescripts />
  80. # [20:14] <joanie> it makes it very very yucky to even use the yucky child position solution to identify the pre scripts
  81. # [20:14] <tbsaunde> surkov looked at some mathml patches last week I don't know what they do, but that sounds kind of expected
  82. # [20:14] <joanie> so if we pruned the <mprescripts />
  83. # [20:15] <joanie> put in a fake accessible for the mprescripts
  84. # [20:15] <joanie> and then made the children of the fake accessible all the pre subs and pre sups
  85. # [20:15] <joanie> life would be way better
  86. # [20:16] <tbsaunde> ah, that doesn't seem too terrible to do
  87. # [20:16] <joanie> wooo hoo!!!!
  88. # [20:16] <joanie> fredw: is here with me in a coruña
  89. # [20:16] <joanie> and we were wondering if this would solve our problem
  90. # [20:17] <joanie> going the relation route (in one of the patches) seems less than desirable
  91. # [20:17] <joanie> and I think this would eliminate the need for accessible relations -- I already don't think we need them
  92. # [20:17] <joanie> UNTIL
  93. # [20:17] <joanie> all this subsup bla bla bla
  94. # [20:17] <joanie> but the fake accessible would solve that
  95. # [20:17] <joanie> (I think)
  96. # [20:19] <tbsaunde> I'm curious how multiple superscripts say work with any approach btw
  97. # [20:20] <joanie> my understanding is everyone is rolling their own solution
  98. # [20:20] <joanie> in particular
  99. # [20:20] <joanie> in windows they are not using the a11y tree for this at all
  100. # [20:20] <tbsaunde> its not even really fake though, your just putting the stuff after the mprescripts element underneath it
  101. # [20:20] <joanie> from what fredw and I saw in webkit, apple exposes this stuff via accesible attributes
  102. # [20:21] <joanie> tbsaunde: yeah, that is what I thought originally re not really fake
  103. # [20:21] <tbsaunde> yeah, that's what I saw with a quick read of webkit
  104. # [20:21] <joanie> the reason for making it fake is ....
  105. # [20:22] <joanie> if we're already making up a fake accessible (or really a fake parent) for prescripts
  106. # [20:22] <joanie> why not also do it for postscripts
  107. # [20:22] <joanie> then everything is delightfully parallel
  108. # [20:22] <joanie> but there is no mposcripts element
  109. # [20:23] <tbsaunde> implementation wise it seems easier to not do it for post scripts
  110. # [20:23] <joanie> fair enough
  111. # [20:23] <joanie> doing it just for prescripts would be helpful regardless
  112. # [20:24] <tbsaunde> well, what do you want to happen if there is only pre / post scripts?
  113. # [20:24] <joanie> i don't follow
  114. # [20:25] <tbsaunde> if there's only post scripts should there be a fake accessible, or not?
  115. # [20:25] <joanie> a fake accessible for pre?
  116. # [20:25] <tbsaunde> for either really
  117. # [20:25] <joanie> not for pre if there are no pre
  118. # [20:25] <joanie> not sure about post
  119. # [20:26] <tbsaunde> well, if you don't have it for post scripts only then you need to check if there is any pre before building the tree which sounds wasteful
  120. # [20:27] <tbsaunde> and if you only have pre scripts is an empty post script accessible ok?
  121. # [20:27] <joanie> if you only have prescripts, you'd have a base followed by the prescript fake parent
  122. # [20:27] <joanie> which I think would be clear enough
  123. # [20:28] <joanie> but this is all just in my head thinking out loud stuff
  124. # [20:29] <tbsaunde> I guess it probably doesn't matterthat much, either way they all probably can be done
  125. # [20:29] <joanie> cool
  126. # [20:30] <joanie> thanks
  127. # [20:30] <joanie> is surkov working tomorrow (does anyone know)?
  128. # [20:30] <joanie> if so, perhaps he can remotely attend the webengines hackfest and work with me and fredw
  129. # [20:31] <tbsaunde> I haven't seen him take pto so I guess so
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The end :)