/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2009-08-05 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Aug 05 00:00:00 2009
# Session Ident: #css
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# [11:18] <anne> fantasai, you around?
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# [17:49] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/08/05-CSS-irc
# [17:49] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
# [17:49] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
# [18:00] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@67.218.103.215)
# [18:00] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
# [18:01] <Zakim> +dsinger_
# [18:01] <dsinger> zakim, dsinger_ is dsinger
# [18:01] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
# [18:01] <dsinger> zakim, mute me
# [18:01] <Zakim> sorry, dsinger, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
# [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.650.766.aaaa
# [18:01] <dsinger> zakim, mute me
# [18:01] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
# [18:02] <dsinger> zakim, who is here?
# [18:02] <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), +1.650.766.aaaa
# [18:02] <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, bradk, shepazu, dbaron, MoZ, myakura, annevk, Lachy, jdaggett, plinss, anne, karl, krijnh, plinss_, Bert, Hixie, fantasai, trackbot
# [18:02] <Zakim> -dsinger
# [18:02] <Zakim> +dsinger
# [18:03] <dsinger> zakim, mute me
# [18:03] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
# [18:03] * dsinger gotta love at&t coverage
# [18:03] <Zakim> +plinss
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# [18:03] <Zakim> +Daniel_Glazman
# [18:03] * dsinger who is 650-756-aaaa?
# [18:04] * dbaron messes with his SIP client
# [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is Bradkemper
# [18:04] <Zakim> +Bradkemper; got it
# [18:04] * dsinger Brad's IRC is bradk?
# [18:04] <bradk> thanx
# [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is bradk
# [18:05] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
# [18:05] <glazou> sigh
# [18:05] <dbaron> Zakim, Bradkemper is bradk
# [18:05] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
# [18:05] <glazou> thx dbaron
# [18:06] * dsinger dbaron is having mucho SIP fun methinks
# [18:06] <dbaron> yes
# [18:06] <dbaron> the only sip client that works for me tends to only work once per time it's started
# [18:07] <Zakim> +Bert
# [18:07] <dbaron> and if you try to make a call before it's fully initialized (which takes more than a minute), you have to start all over
# [18:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
# [18:08] <Zakim> +??P10
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# [18:09] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
# [18:09] <sgalineau> Zakim, [Microsoft] has alexmog, arronei, sylvaing
# [18:09] <Zakim> +alexmog, arronei, sylvaing; got it
# [18:10] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
# [18:10] * dsinger yay!
# [18:10] <Zakim> +hyatt
# [18:10] <dbaron> Zakim, [Mozilla] has dbaron
# [18:10] <Zakim> +dbaron; got it
# [18:11] * Bert notices that Tab has been sending even more messages than Sylvain to www-font! :-)
# [18:12] <Zakim> -plinss
# [18:12] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-120
# [18:12] * sgalineau yes Bert, I would not invite myself....yet
# [18:13] * dbaron waits for the wiki to load
# [18:13] <Zakim> +plinss
# [18:14] <dbaron> this is issue 8 in the email
# [18:15] <fantasai> fantasai: I'm not suggesting we solve the issue on the call, but that we decide how to approach it
# [18:15] * Joins: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.30)
# [18:16] <fantasai> fantasai: whether we want to audit the entire spec to make sure the explicit lists are everywhere they need to be and in sync
# [18:16] <fantasai> fantasai: or whether we want to remove explicit lists and define special display types in terms of blocks
# [18:17] <Zakim> +ChrisL
# [18:17] <fantasai> Bert: I think it's easier to have explicit lists, make sure we think about where the exceptions are
# [18:17] <fantasai> Daniel: I think it's easier to have just a sentence saying table-captions are like blocks, much fewer edits
# [18:17] <fantasai> dbaron: Need to be careful, it's like a block inside but not outside
# [18:17] <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
# [18:17] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/08/05-CSS-irc#T16-13-06
# [18:18] <fantasai> fantasai: There are many places in the spec that mention blocks in passing, we can't have explicit lists everywhere
# [18:18] <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
# [18:18] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, ChrisL
# [18:18] <dbaron> I think we should leave it to the editor to propose an appropriate fix.
# [18:18] <fantasai> fantasai: Maybe at the top of the section, "blocks in these cases means ..."
# [18:18] * glazou fantasai, please record decision to invite Tab Atkins Jr
# [18:18] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@131.107.0.103)
# [18:19] * fantasai thought we didn't record personnell stuff
# [18:19] <glazou> that's not personel, that's a decision
# [18:19] <fantasai> dbaron and Bert discuss lineboxes and baselines
# [18:19] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Invite Tab Atkins as Invited Expert
# [18:19] <glazou> thx
# [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: It's not as simple as a sentence fix here. Basically we need to audit the spec, because we have a lot of this kind of problem
# [18:21] * dbaron wonders if the VoIP artifacts are from Chris's connection or his own
# [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: Question here is which approach should the person auditing the spec
# [18:21] <fantasai> take
# [18:21] <dsinger> as long as it is, in fact, true everywhere...
# [18:21] <glazou> dbaron, I hear nothing special here
# [18:22] * dbaron notes that that means his connection got bad for exactly the time span when Chris was talking :-/
# [18:22] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@67.218.103.215) (Quit: dsinger)
# [18:23] * ChrisL has cursed dbarons internet connection
# [18:23] <fantasai> ChrisL asks what the proposals are
# [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: First is to audit the spec and make sure there explicit lists whereever we talk about blocks, and make sure those lists are in sync
# [18:24] <hyatt> same. up to the editor imo.
# [18:24] <fantasai> fantasai: Second is to audit the spec to just talk about blocks, and then in the definition for table-caption etc. define those to behave exactly like blocks except ... and list the exceptions
# [18:24] <dbaron> "letting the editor decide" == doesn't need to make the decision while we wait
# [18:25] <fantasai> Several in favor of second option, Bert in favor of first (?), dbaron and hyatt want editor to decide
# [18:26] <fantasai> dbaron: I think the solution here is to reword the sentence to define a block's baseline
# [18:27] <fantasai> dbaron: So maybe Bert's suggestion to rename to line box's baseline is good
# [18:27] <fantasai> ACTION: Bert and fantasai solve this issue
# [18:27] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
# [18:27] <trackbot> Created ACTION-171 - And fantasai solve this issue [on Bert Bos - due 2009-08-12].
# [18:27] <dbaron> (rename and make it a definition)
# [18:27] * RRSAgent records action 1
# [18:27] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-129
# [18:29] <fantasai> dbaron explains the issue
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# [18:29] <Zakim> +[Apple]
# [18:29] <Zakim> -dsinger
# [18:29] <fantasai> The way url() is defined in the tokenizer, if something starts to match url() but doesn't end
# [18:30] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
# [18:30] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
# [18:30] <fantasai> then the tokenizer has to go back and retokenize as something else
# [18:30] <fantasai> which is not what anyone does
# [18:30] <fantasai> dbaron: And we have prose that contradicts this, at least for the URL case
# [18:30] <dbaron> I think
# [18:31] <fantasai> Bert doesn't want to change the grammar
# [18:31] <fantasai> Others don't want to change implementations
# [18:31] <fantasai> dbaron: What the spec says is that given
# [18:31] <fantasai> <style>
# [18:31] <fantasai> p { color: red; }
# [18:31] <fantasai> h1 { color: red; }
# [18:32] <fantasai> </style>
# [18:32] <fantasai> (insert /* after <style>)
# [18:32] <Bert> Currently, "/*" is two DELIMs, we can still use it for something. After Zack's change, "/*" becomes reserved.
# [18:32] <glazou> fantasai: with a comment start before 1st rule
# [18:32] <fantasai> implementations should treat /* as an invalid selector
# [18:32] <dbaron> Bert, we can't use it for something, since it starts a comment
# [18:32] <fantasai> glazou, yes, it got eaten by my IRC client :)
# [18:32] <glazou> oh ok :)
# [18:32] <dbaron> Bert, if we used it, we wouldn't be able to have comments anywhere later in the style sheet
# [18:33] <fantasai> Peter: I think it's extremely dangerous to use /* as a delimiter for anything other than comments
# [18:33] * ChrisL aw, no "conditional comments" down the line? (grins)
# [18:34] <fantasai> Bert: The grammar is the most stable part of the spec, we should not touch that
# [18:34] * sgalineau ChrisL: whoa...comment media queries !
# [18:34] <dbaron> "User agents must close all open constructs (for example: blocks, parentheses, brackets, rules, strings, and comments) at the end of the style sheet. For example: "
# [18:34] <fantasai> ChrisL: If the grammar is stable, but a portion of it has not been implemented and nobody wants to implement it, then it may be stable but it's wrong
# [18:34] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:35] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
# [18:35] <fantasai> dbaron: We also have prose that contradicts the grammar very clearly
# [18:35] * dbaron notes the noise was probably me
# [18:35] <fantasai> fantasai: Prose trumps grammar. I think we should fix the grammar.
# [18:36] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Jun/att-0164/unterm-css.html
# [18:36] * fantasai thinks that's a very clever testcase
# [18:37] <dbaron> I think we've already fixed Firefox on the trunk
# [18:38] <fantasai> Sylvain: We backtrack the first and last, but not the middle two
# [18:38] <hyatt> lol
# [18:38] <fantasai> Firefox backtracks the middle two, but not the first and the last
# [18:38] * ChrisL sees the basis for another conditional hack
# [18:38] <fantasai> Glazou: We should fix this
# [18:39] <plinss> Safari does not backtrack for any
# [18:39] <sgalineau> IE7 did not backtrack anywhere
# [18:39] <fantasai> Opera?
# [18:39] <oyvinds> 9.64 backtracks the last three, but my internal build none
# [18:40] <dbaron> I guess I have a fix to fix the backtracking in my own tree that's not checked in yet.
# [18:40] <dbaron> I'll have to figure out which patch that is. :-)
# [18:40] <fantasai> Brad: No sense in keeping it inconsistent among UAs
# [18:40] <sgalineau> Opera 10 Beta is same as 9.64
# [18:40] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the call?
# [18:40] <Zakim> On the phone I see bradk, Daniel_Glazman, Bert, [Microsoft], ??P10, [Mozilla], hyatt, plinss, ChrisL, [Apple]
# [18:40] <Zakim> [Apple] has dsinger
# [18:40] <Zakim> [Mozilla] has dbaron
# [18:40] <fantasai> Daniel: I'm happy with the proposal
# [18:40] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has alexmog, arronei, sylvaing
# [18:40] <fantasai> Bert doesn't have a problem with the proposal itself, just doesn't want to change the grammar
# [18:41] <fantasai> Daniel: yes
# [18:41] <fantasai> Bert: No, but won't block
# [18:41] <fantasai> Brad: fix it, dont' care how
# [18:41] <fantasai> Sylvain: change it
# [18:41] <hyatt> yup
# [18:41] <fantasai> Alex, Arron: change
# [18:41] <fantasai> fantasai: in favor
# [18:41] <hyatt> in favor yes
# [18:41] <fantasai> dbaron: in favor
# [18:41] <fantasai> Peter: yes
# [18:41] <ChrisL> fix as proposed
# [18:41] <dbaron> Ah, yes, I've had this patch to rewrite url() parsing in my tree for ages that I should really do something about...
# [18:42] <fantasai> dsinger: whatever hyatt says :)
# [18:42] <fantasai> Daniel: Vast majority for yes.
# [18:42] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted for CSS 2.1 issue 129
# [18:42] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-130
# [18:43] <fantasai> dbaron: I think this is as intended
# [18:44] <fantasai> fantasai: No, it's a problem. The example lists keywords that don't exist. So the example is inconsistent with the normative prose
# [18:44] <fantasai> Sylvain: We're just reserving them for future use
# [18:44] * glazou has a massive headache
# [18:44] <fantasai> fantasai: But if we want to do that, we have to do it normatively, not in an example
# [18:46] <fantasai> Bert: We edited the spec to include those keywords because we noticed they're defined in later specs, but not listed
# [18:46] <fantasai> dbaron: I don't think it should be an example, it should just be that list
# [18:47] <fantasai> (because for font-family, it's exhaustive)
# [18:47] * dsinger why don't we recommend quoting font names?
# [18:47] * dsinger like always
# [18:48] * fantasai too late
# [18:48] <dbaron> font shorthand requires size and family, and only lh and family after size, because the syntax for family is so broad
# [18:48] <fantasai> ChrisL: Making the list normative is good, but should probably also call those keywords out explicitly
# [18:49] * dsinger can we reserve a form that cannot possibly be (part of) a font-name, for future keywords?
# [18:49] <fantasai> I suggest removing those keywords from the example list, removing 'e.g.', and adding a sentence that says "'initial' and 'default' are reserved as keywords for future use and must also be quoted"
# [18:50] <dsinger> and if a font with that name is desired, they must be quoted. yes.
# [18:50] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted with "when used as font names" appended
# [18:50] * Bert to dsinger: we would probably have to use a functional notation foo() in that case...
# [18:51] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-133
# [18:51] * dbaron notes we don't need ten people to write five words :-)
# [18:52] <glazou> dbaron: lol
# [18:52] <fantasai> dbaron: this is only one out of many issues for table heights/widths and we wanted to postpone them
# [18:55] * glazou already needed aspirin before the call and the topics discussed did not help :-)
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# [18:55] <fantasai> fantasai: If it's not defined, we should say it's not defined
# [18:55] <fantasai> fantasai: we don't say that row-group heights are undefined, just tables and rows
# [18:57] <fantasai> Bert: Add a sentence in 17.5.3 saying that height is undefined for row groups
# [18:57] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accepted, Bert to word and edit
# [18:57] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-134
# [18:58] <dbaron> the first issue 134! :-)
# [19:01] <fantasai> Brad: Is there any reason why we can't use percentage offsets on relpos children of an auto-height block?
# [19:02] <fantasai> dbaron: It's probably ok, though I'm a little concerned if there's overflow set... though I guess it's not a problem even then, just weird behavior
# [19:02] <fantasai> Brad: Is it going to break anything if people implement it this way?
# [19:02] <fantasai> fantasai: Apparently IE6 did it, so probably not
# [19:03] <fantasai> Brad: unless they're doing two things and assuming IE does it but others dont'
# [19:03] <fantasai> Bert: I don't see why it can't work
# [19:04] <hyatt> seems fine
# [19:04] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Close no change
# [19:04] * oyvinds notes that hyatt mentioned a cyclic situation related to showing of scrollbars in that thread, might need to specify what happens at least?
# [19:04] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Jul/0025.html
# [19:05] <Zakim> -hyatt
# [19:05] <Zakim> -ChrisL
# [19:05] <Zakim> -[Apple]
# [19:05] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
# [19:05] <Zakim> -Daniel_Glazman
# [19:05] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
# [19:05] <Zakim> -bradk
# [19:05] <Zakim> -plinss
# [19:05] <Zakim> -??P10
# [19:05] <Zakim> -Bert
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# [19:05] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
# [19:05] <Zakim> Attendees were dsinger, +1.650.766.aaaa, plinss, Daniel_Glazman, bradk, Bert, alexmog, arronei, sylvaing, hyatt, dbaron, ChrisL
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# [20:08] <fantasai> RRSAgent: make logs public
# [20:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, fantasai
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# [21:48] <dbaron> anne, annevk, I have references for the css3-namespace test suite, if you're interested... I could easily check them (and the reftest.list) into CVS.
# [21:53] <fantasai> dbaron: sure, go ahead
# [22:34] * annevk finally gets "references"
# [22:40] <dbaron> annevk, reftest references :-)
# [22:44] <dbaron> hmm, if I dump them in the same directory, will it mess up the script that generates the index?
# [22:44] <annevk> fantasai might know; I haven't done anything with that
# [22:45] <fantasai> dbaron, yes
# [22:45] <fantasai> dbaron, but the script that generates the index needs help currently anyway
# [22:45] <fantasai> dbaron, if the references can handle a separate directory, that might make it easier
# [22:45] <dbaron> they can
# [22:46] <fantasai> dbaron, but the scripts need to be updated for a lot of things and namespaces currently needs hand-tweaking anyway
# [22:46] <dbaron> I could do a reftest/ subdirectory or a references/ subdirectory.
# [22:46] <dbaron> and it could be a subdirectory of src/ or next to src/
# [22:46] <dbaron> any preference?
# [22:46] <fantasai> how about a reftest/ subdirectory of the src directory
# [22:46] <fantasai> and put the manifest in there?
# [22:46] <dbaron> ok
# [22:46] <fantasai> Then we can add an explanation, too
# [22:46] <dbaron> was planning to put the manifest there too
# [22:49] <dbaron> ok, done
# [22:49] <fantasai> cool
# [22:50] * fantasai needs to spend a few months on test suite stuff after this
# [22:51] <annevk> btw, some guys at Opera would really like some guidance on how the vertical text overflow ellipsis needs to be done instead
# [22:52] <annevk> also, I don't think I ever got a reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Jun/0112.html
# [22:55] <fantasai> annevk: make a pseudo-element, that should handle all use cases
# [22:56] * fantasai reads your email
# [22:56] <fantasai> anne: You mean that if I scroll, the content is still cut off and I just get blank space?
# [22:56] <fantasai> that doesn't eem right
# [23:07] <annevk> a pseudo-element?!
# [23:08] <annevk> well "right" depends on the definition I suppose
# [23:08] <annevk> I assume that what we have is more trivial than what you seem to want
# [23:08] <fantasai> the main use case is for text input fields, right?
# [23:08] <fantasai> that was the original one anyway
# [23:08] <annevk> was that why IE added it?
# [23:09] <annevk> i somehow doubt it
# [23:09] <fantasai> if they're scrollable, I don't want to see an ellipsis as I scroll through
# [23:09] <fantasai> I want to see the actual content
# [23:11] <annevk> the typical case is for overflow:hidden afaict
# [23:11] <annevk> we haven't heard any authors complain about our impl anyway
# [23:11] <annevk> apart from not having it applied vertically
# [23:12] <fantasai> do Safari and IE apply it vertically?
# [23:13] * fantasai thinks it would be weird for the ellipsis to apply horizontally only until there's vertical overflow, and then apply vertically and not horizontally
# [23:13] <fantasai> both is also weird
# [23:17] <fantasai> *sigh*
# [23:17] <fantasai> What do you want it to do for "vertically", anne?
# [23:18] <fantasai> it has to be a separate syntax, but we could use the same property if it's close enough
# [23:19] <fantasai> Send a proposal to www-style for the behavior, catalog what you want to happen for various values of overflow and what happens when they trigger
# [23:19] <fantasai> we'll discuss the syntax based on that
# [23:20] <fantasai> also, what happens when the overflow is not text
# [23:20] <fantasai> etc
# [23:28] <annevk> well, with vertically I mean that if you have three lines and room for two you show an ellipsis at the end of the second line
# [23:28] <annevk> I already made a proposal once and it was rejected
# [23:28] <annevk> so I guess now I'm asking for answers to my questions to figure out what a good alternative would be
# [23:36] <fantasai> your proposal was to make the same syntax affect "vertical overflow"
# [23:36] <fantasai> in cases where there's vertical overflow instead of horizontal overflow
# [23:36] <fantasai> that was rejected
# [23:37] <fantasai> The concept of having a control for ellipsis on vertical overflow was not rejected
# [23:37] <fantasai> But the whole thing is very vaguely defined
# [23:37] <fantasai> and I don't really understand what behavior you want anyway
# [23:48] <hyatt> we've had to invent so much ellipsis crap
# [23:48] <hyatt> you know what people really want
# [23:48] <hyatt> is to define how overflow looks on the last line onlyl
# [23:48] <fantasai> no, what
# [23:48] <hyatt> and have a pseudo element
# [23:49] <hyatt> for control of what to do
# [23:49] <hyatt> safari rss we had to do something like that
# [23:49] <hyatt> we have ellipses on the last line of an article
# [23:49] <hyatt> and we have a Read More link
# [23:49] <hyatt> and that has to just appear at the end of the line
# [23:49] <hyatt> we had ot just make up custom garbage to do it :)
# [23:49] <fantasai> you want display: run-out for that kind of stuff :)
# [23:50] <fantasai> but, yeah, I agree we need a pseudo-element for vertical overflow
# [23:50] <hyatt> it's probably too specializd
# [23:50] <hyatt> the safari rss stuff
# [23:50] <fantasai> people want to put different kinds of text, styling, icons, whatever
# [23:50] <hyatt> to ever be specified
# [23:50] <fantasai> yeah
# [23:50] <fantasai> but display: run-out would be useful for other things too
# [23:51] <fantasai> I've seen it used to give the author of an article
# [23:51] <hyatt> this article annoys me
# [23:51] <hyatt> https://developer.mozilla.org/web-tech/2009/08/04/background-images-no-longer-restricted-to-original-size-explore-the-space-with-background-size/
# [23:51] <hyatt> "A note to would-be early adopters: this is one reason why Mozilla sometimes holds off on implementing features that are part of a working draft; implement it when it’s too new and you’ll find the carpet pulled out from underneath you"
# [23:51] <hyatt> eh
# [23:52] <hyatt> it was hardly "too new" when webkit implemented it
# [23:52] <hyatt> </rant>
# [23:53] <fantasai> heh
# [23:53] <hyatt> we'll just stop implementing stuff and let mozilla tell us when we should.
# [23:53] <hyatt> </okreallyendrant>
# [23:53] <fantasai> lol
# [23:53] <fantasai> roc's got a good point about text-overflow, though
# [23:53] <fantasai> it is /so/ poorly defined
# [23:53] <hyatt> i hate it
# [23:53] * fantasai just ripped out the previous definition, it was so useless
# [23:54] <hyatt> it's so weird
# [23:54] <hyatt> having to specify overflow:hidden (and usually white-space:nowrap)
# [23:54] <hyatt> just to get text to truncate
# [23:54] <fantasai> yeah, I thought we were going to get rid of that requirement
# [23:54] <fantasai> you suggested it a long time ago, and I was going to put it in the spec
# [23:54] <hyatt> and the fact that it can apply to lines in the middle of your block
# [23:54] <hyatt> i don't really get
# [23:55] <fantasai> I would be happy with a definition that only applies to the last line
# [23:55] <hyatt> the way people seem to always use this stuff is for single lines of text
# [23:55] <fantasai> but not with one that applies to lines in the middle of the block sometimes
# [23:55] <fantasai> and only the last line other times
# [23:55] <hyatt> it's mostly for controls and things
# [23:55] <hyatt> or lines in a tree/table
# [23:55] <hyatt> etc
# [23:55] <hyatt> and people want middle and left truncation too obviously
# [23:55] <fantasai> ?
# [23:56] <hyatt> which may be there
# [23:56] <hyatt> i haven't read the definition lately
# [23:56] <hyatt> middle truncation is common for URLs
# [23:56] <fantasai> ah
# [23:56] <hyatt> where you wan t to be able to see the host name and the page you're on
# [23:56] <hyatt> and the middle stuff tends to be less relevant
# [23:56] <fantasai> that's gotta be customized
# [23:56] <hyatt> you see that in tree controls of bookmarks etc.
# [23:56] <fantasai> because for URLs you want some intelligent matching
# [23:56] <hyatt> well XUL just does its own truncation stuff in mozilla
# [23:56] <hyatt> outside of CSS
# [23:57] <fantasai> to keep the relevant stuff, and not clip out e.g. half the hostname
# [23:58] <fantasai> hyatt, if you think we can revamp the definition for text-overflow without breaking things significantly, I'm happy to help spec it out.
# [23:58] <hyatt> mostly we'd need to look at IE
# [23:58] <fantasai> but I don't want to sit here trying to reverse-engineer all the junk
# [23:58] <hyatt> sounds like roc has done more testing than i have
# [23:58] <hyatt> so maybe he could help explain what he noticed
# [23:58] <fantasai> yeah, we have a bug open on it and someone ran a lot of tests
# [23:58] <fantasai> the results were posted to www-style
# [23:59] <fantasai> and they were still incomplete
# Session Close: Thu Aug 06 00:00:00 2009

The end :)