/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-02-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Feb 15 00:00:01 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:01] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@118.243.227.145) (Quit: jdaggett)
  4. # [00:22] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Is white-space:plaintext defined anywhere? Hixie needs it for speccing [dir=auto] behavior.
  5. # [00:22] * Joins: homata (homata@58.158.182.50)
  6. # [00:29] <fantasai> TabAtkins: um, no?
  7. # [00:29] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Oh, you mean unicode-bidi: plaintext
  8. # [00:30] <fantasai> TabAtkins: yeah, it's in CSS3 Writing Modes
  9. # [00:30] <fantasai> Hixie: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-writing-modes/#unicode-bidi
  10. # [00:31] <Hixie> thanks
  11. # [00:31] <fantasai> np
  12. # [00:31] <Hixie> what does |"paragraph"| mean?
  13. # [00:31] <Hixie> and how does it apply to replaced element content like <textarea>?
  14. # [00:32] <TabAtkins> I'm guessing "by magic" isn't an acceptable answer?
  15. # [00:32] <Hixie> not if you want interop :-)
  16. # [00:33] <fantasai> Hixie: The term is taken from UAX14
  17. # [00:33] <fantasai> er
  18. # [00:33] <fantasai> UAX9
  19. # [00:33] <Hixie> yeah but UAX9 relies on us to define it, no?
  20. # [00:34] <Hixie> isn't that one of the things we're supposed to give it as a higher-level protocol?
  21. # [00:34] <fantasai> Hixie: See above the 2.1 header
  22. # [00:34] * fantasai looks for the nachor
  23. # [00:35] <fantasai> anchor
  24. # [00:35] <Hixie> 2.1 anchor in uax9?
  25. # [00:35] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-writing-modes/#text-direction
  26. # [00:35] <Hixie> OH IN CSS3
  27. # [00:35] <Hixie> er
  28. # [00:35] <Hixie> miscaps
  29. # [00:35] <fantasai> "This sequence forms the "paragraph" unit in the bidirectional algorithm."
  30. # [00:36] <Hixie> ah so "line" then?
  31. # [00:36] <fantasai> Not exactly
  32. # [00:36] <Hixie> for <pre> and <textarea>
  33. # [00:36] <Hixie> and ignoring wrapped lines
  34. # [00:36] <fantasai> LS breaks the line
  35. # [00:36] <fantasai> but does not break the bidi paragraph
  36. # [00:36] <Hixie> LS breaks line boxes in CSS now?
  37. # [00:36] <fantasai> It's undefined right now
  38. # [00:36] <fantasai> But that's the expectation in CSS3 Text
  39. # [00:37] <fantasai> There's no other way to break the line without breaking the bidi paragraph
  40. # [00:37] <fantasai> which is a valid use case we should support
  41. # [00:37] <fantasai> That's what <br> was supposed to do, IYRC
  42. # [00:37] <fantasai> before the definition changed to match PS :)
  43. # [00:37] <Hixie> yeah, i tried to fight that
  44. # [00:37] <Hixie> basically <Br> is useless in a bidi context now
  45. # [00:38] <fantasai> Well, you have updated test data that'll allow you to reverse that decision, if you think that's better
  46. # [00:38] <fantasai> <br> isn't useless in bidi, it just may or may not be what was intended
  47. # [00:38] <Hixie> <br> is useless in bidi for any valid use case
  48. # [00:39] <Hixie> what's the updated test data?
  49. # [00:39] <Hixie> i thought we established this couldn't change
  50. # [00:39] <fantasai> IE actually behaves as LS in standards mode :)
  51. # [00:39] <fantasai> so you have enough implementation support for that now
  52. # [00:39] <fantasai> (Aharon's testcases were triggering quirks mode)
  53. # [00:40] <fantasai> smontagu and I realized that when we were creating a bunch of tests for some related changes to Gecko
  54. # [00:40] <fantasai> I think Aharon did post that update to the bug
  55. # [00:40] <Hixie> ah, yes
  56. # [00:40] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10828
  57. # [00:40] <Hixie> i asked microsoft for feedback and got nothing
  58. # [00:40] <Hixie> as usual
  59. # [00:40] <fantasai> heh
  60. # [00:41] <fantasai> you could try poking sylvain
  61. # [00:42] <fantasai> our reps are pretty good about being responsive :D
  62. # [00:42] <Hixie> looking over the bug, i guess we know what they'd say: "we're not changing our quirks mode"
  63. # [00:43] <fantasai> which indeed they shouldn't
  64. # [00:43] * fantasai looks for the CSS2.1 testcase
  65. # [00:44] <fantasai> http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110111/html4/bidi-breaking-002.htm
  66. # [00:44] <fantasai> it's written in <br> as PS to match the HTML5 spec atm
  67. # [00:46] <Hixie> well i dunno what to do. compat with IE quirks is probably more important though.
  68. # [00:46] <Hixie> so i guess it's going to remain PS.
  69. # [00:48] <Hixie> oh hey, i already had this requirement for <pre>
  70. # [00:48] <Hixie> that makes my life simpler
  71. # [00:49] <fantasai> ?
  72. # [00:50] <fantasai> CR/LF is treated as PS per UAX14 already...
  73. # [00:50] * Quits: plinss (plinss@68.107.116.23) (Quit: plinss)
  74. # [00:53] <Hixie> uax14 isn't normatively referenced by anything that applies here, is it?
  75. # [01:00] <fantasai> by CSS
  76. # [01:00] <fantasai> yes
  77. # [01:08] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Are we expecting any more edits for css3-images, or should I put it in the publication queue?
  78. # [01:27] <Hixie> oops, didn't realise that thread wasn't public
  79. # [01:27] <Hixie> please feel free to forward my e-mails wherever
  80. # [01:34] <Hixie> (fantasai ^ the :active thread)
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  83. # [03:23] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I poked Brad on Friday, and still haven't gotten anything. So put it in the publication queue, and he'll just have to give his feedback on the ED for the next WD.
  84. # [06:14] <fantasai> TabAtkins: OK. I'll regenerate it for WD and ask Bert to set it up
  85. # [06:14] <fantasai> TabAtkins: btw, I removed your paragraph styling just for consistency
  86. # [06:15] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I see what problems you're trying to fix there, and I agree we should do something about them
  87. # [06:15] <fantasai> TabAtkins: But preferably do that CSSWG-wide, since it's kindof a global change to the style
  88. # [07:17] <fantasai> Hixie: forwarded
  89. # [07:18] <fantasai> Hixie: And looks like MS did respond to your LS bug, asking, in fact, to revert the spec to make <br> as LS :)
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  105. # [18:13] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Okay. How should I pursue a styling change here?
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The end :)