/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-09-14 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 14 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@216.1.177.100) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  4. # [00:16] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  5. # [00:37] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Ping timeout)
  6. # [00:45] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  7. # [01:09] * Joins: homata (homata@58.158.182.50)
  8. # [01:44] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Quit: Leaving.)
  9. # [02:07] * Joins: murakami (murakami@118.154.209.3)
  10. # [02:15] * Joins: jdaggett (jdaggett@202.221.217.73)
  11. # [02:17] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@24.120.36.131)
  12. # [02:26] * Joins: vhardy (vhardy@98.234.217.184)
  13. # [02:28] * Quits: vhardy (vhardy@98.234.217.184) (Client exited)
  14. # [02:39] * Joins: vhardy (vhardy@192.150.10.200)
  15. # [02:40] * Quits: homata (homata@58.158.182.50) (Quit: Leaving...)
  16. # [02:55] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@192.150.22.5) (Ping timeout)
  17. # [03:01] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  18. # [03:16] * Quits: vhardy (vhardy@192.150.10.200) (Connection reset by peer)
  19. # [03:29] * Joins: stearns (anonymous@50.132.9.217)
  20. # [03:36] * Joins: homata (homata@58.158.182.50)
  21. # [04:07] * Quits: murakami (murakami@118.154.209.3) (Quit: Leaving...)
  22. # [04:56] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58)
  23. # [05:09] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
  24. # [06:45] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@50.132.9.217) (Client exited)
  25. #
  26. # Session Start: Wed Sep 14 12:21:13 2011
  27. # Session Ident: #css
  28. # [12:21] * Now talking in #css
  29. # [12:27] * Quits: Florian (Florian@58.1.224.28) (Quit: Leaving.)
  30. # [13:20] * Quits: plinss_ (plinss@129.215.5.255) (Quit: plinss_)
  31. # [13:29] * Quits: homata (homata@58.158.182.50) (Quit: Leaving...)
  32. # [14:02] * Quits: Bert (bbos@mcclure.w3.org) (Client exited)
  33. # [14:19] * Joins: plinss_ (plinss@129.215.5.255)
  34. # [14:43] * Joins: myakura (myakura@203.136.181.177)
  35. # [15:04] * Joins: Bert (bbos@mcclure.w3.org)
  36. # [15:09] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  37. # [15:43] * Joins: stearns (anonymous@50.132.9.217)
  38. # [16:54] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@24.120.36.131) (Quit: Leaving.)
  39. # [17:10] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@50.132.9.217) (Ping timeout)
  40. # [17:10] * Joins: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129)
  41. # [17:11] * Joins: stearns (anonymous@50.132.9.217)
  42. # [17:30] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  43. # [17:38] * Joins: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19)
  44. # [17:38] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  45. # [17:39] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  46. # [17:39] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-css-irc
  47. # [17:39] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  48. # [17:39] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
  49. # [17:39] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  50. # [17:39] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  51. # [17:48] * Joins: florian (florianr@114.181.159.79)
  52. # [17:52] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Quit: Leaving.)
  53. # [17:55] <glazou> if I understood correctly, all mozillians are at the Mozilla AllHands and Microsofties at BUILD...
  54. # [17:55] <glazou> arronei: are you MSFTies going to attend today's call?
  55. # [17:55] <glazou> or are you at BUILD?
  56. # [17:56] <florian> I have understood the same about mozz, but I didn't see anything about BUILD in the regrets mail. I am just late on catching up with my mail, or did you hear this in another channel?
  57. # [17:57] <glazou> well, the whole twitter universe is about the BUILD announcements
  58. # [17:58] <florian> I see. I don't use twitter all that much
  59. # [17:58] * Joins: dsinger_ (dsinger@65.50.217.177)
  60. # [18:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  61. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  62. # [18:01] * Joins: danielweck (danielweck@86.158.24.42)
  63. # [18:01] <florian> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
  64. # [18:01] <Zakim> ok, florian, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
  65. # [18:02] <Zakim> +??P13
  66. # [18:02] <Zakim> +dsinger
  67. # [18:02] * dsinger_ zakim, mute dsinger
  68. # [18:02] * Zakim dsinger should now be muted
  69. # [18:02] <danielweck> Zakim, ??P13 is me
  70. # [18:02] <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
  71. # [18:03] <glazou> grrr zakim does not me in
  72. # [18:03] * dsinger_ changes topic to 'cool synchronized swimming'
  73. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P15
  74. # [18:03] <glazou> Zakim, ??P15 is me
  75. # [18:03] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  76. # [18:03] * dsinger_ yes
  77. # [18:04] * dsinger_ hi, muted
  78. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.206.550.aaaa
  79. # [18:04] * dsinger_ ok, a bit noisy/quiet
  80. # [18:05] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  81. # [18:05] <stearns> Zakim, aaaa is me
  82. # [18:05] <Zakim> +stearns; got it
  83. # [18:05] <dsinger_> Zakim, who is making noise?
  84. # [18:05] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  85. # [18:05] <Zakim> dsinger_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danielweck (85%)
  86. # [18:05] <hober> Zakim, Apple has me
  87. # [18:05] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  88. # [18:05] <glazou> Zakim, mute danielweck
  89. # [18:05] <Zakim> danielweck should now be muted
  90. # [18:06] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  91. # [18:06] <arronei> zakim, microsoft is me
  92. # [18:06] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  93. # [18:06] * Joins: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117)
  94. # [18:06] * dsinger_ not in Iceland?
  95. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aabb
  96. # [18:06] <bradk> zakim, aabb is me
  97. # [18:06] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  98. # [18:07] <Zakim> +smfr
  99. # [18:07] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.11)
  100. # [18:07] <Zakim> +fantasai
  101. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aacc
  102. # [18:08] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Quit: Leaving.)
  103. # [18:09] <dsinger_> zakim, who is here?
  104. # [18:09] <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], danielweck (muted), dsinger (muted), glazou, stearns, [Apple], arronei, bradk, smfr, fantasai, +47.23.69.aacc
  105. # [18:09] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
  106. # [18:09] <Zakim> On IRC I see smfr, bradk, danielweck, dsinger_, florian, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, stearns, kojiishi, miketaylr, Bert, myakura, plinss_, krijnh, anne, Martijnc, karl, arronei, lhnz,
  107. # [18:09] <Zakim> ... plinss, gsnedders, TabAtkins, CSSWG_LogBot, hober, ed, fantasai, trackbot, shepazu, Hixie
  108. # [18:09] * dsinger_ assumes 47 is Haakon
  109. # [18:09] <glazou> Zakim, aacc is howcome
  110. # [18:09] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
  111. # [18:10] * bradk is muted so you can't hear him coughing
  112. # [18:10] <glazou> bradk: sick?
  113. # [18:10] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  114. # [18:10] <bradk> yeah, gettinh over bad cold
  115. # [18:10] * glazou is back in a second, needs a glass to drink some water
  116. # [18:10] * Bert not having much luck with zakim today :-(
  117. # [18:10] <Zakim> +??P6
  118. # [18:10] <glazou> back
  119. # [18:11] <kojiishi> zakim, ??p6 is me
  120. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Bert
  121. # [18:11] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  122. # [18:11] * Joins: howcome (howcome@213.236.208.247)
  123. # [18:12] <glazou> ScribeNick: arronei
  124. # [18:12] <glazou> http://www.doodle.com/7r9kee8rt5sqwqfv#table
  125. # [18:12] <arronei> glazou: f2f meeting in paris
  126. # [18:13] <arronei> glazou: please fill in the doodle
  127. # [18:13] * Joins: cesar (acebal@85.152.178.139)
  128. # [18:13] <arronei> glazou: need a good head count
  129. # [18:13] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35)
  130. # [18:13] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  131. # [18:14] <Zakim> + +569003aadd
  132. # [18:14] <arronei> glazou: the best date for the f2f in Paris is between the 6th and 8th of Feb
  133. # [18:15] <dsinger_> Week if 23rd is out I assume?
  134. # [18:15] <glazou> yes
  135. # [18:15] <Zakim> -arronei
  136. # [18:15] <dsinger_> S/if/of/
  137. # [18:16] <arronei> ack I just lost my phone
  138. # [18:16] <Bert> (Doodle's interface used to be fine, but they seem to have changed. I can't see the results :-( I *think* I filled the survey last week... Time to switch to Dudle?)
  139. # [18:16] <glazou> arronei: waiting for you
  140. # [18:16] <Zakim> -dsinger
  141. # [18:16] <arronei> Trying to dail in again
  142. # [18:16] <dsinger_> Bother. 3gpp and mpeg the two doodle weeks
  143. # [18:16] <Zakim> + +1.425.246.aaee
  144. # [18:16] * Quits: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.72) (Quit: arronei)
  145. # [18:16] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  146. # [18:17] <glazou> Zakim, aaee is alexmog
  147. # [18:17] <Zakim> +alexmog; got it
  148. # [18:17] <Zakim> +dsinger
  149. # [18:17] * dsinger_ zakim, mute dsinger
  150. # [18:17] * Zakim dsinger should now be muted
  151. # [18:17] <glazou> ScribeNick: glazou
  152. # [18:17] * dsinger_ thanks AT&T
  153. # [18:17] <glazou> howcome: issue is how margin collapsing works on spanner
  154. # [18:17] <Zakim> +Andrew_Kirkpatrick
  155. # [18:17] <glazou> … current spec in CR does not say anything about that
  156. # [18:17] <glazou> … I suggest to add language for that
  157. # [18:18] <glazou> … it should happen if two consecutive spanning elements but not with other elements
  158. # [18:18] <glazou> … spanning lets are usually wider
  159. # [18:18] <glazou> … collapsing should be messy
  160. # [18:18] * Joins: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.118)
  161. # [18:18] <glazou> … http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Aug/0457.html
  162. # [18:18] <glazou> arronei: I'm minuting
  163. # [18:19] <glazou> fantasai: please read it
  164. # [18:19] <glazou> howcome reads
  165. # [18:19] <arronei> well I was my machine rebooted on me
  166. # [18:19] <glazou> fantasai: seems ok
  167. # [18:20] <glazou> howcome: two h elements, they should collapse
  168. # [18:20] <glazou> alexmog: spanning elements are kind of like floats
  169. # [18:20] <glazou> alexmog: floats don't collapse margins
  170. # [18:20] <glazou> florian: I see it differently
  171. # [18:20] <glazou> florian: you intend things to collapse when there is only 1 column
  172. # [18:20] * Quits: anne (annevk@213.236.208.22) (Quit: anne)
  173. # [18:21] <glazou> florian: they should collapse then
  174. # [18:21] <glazou> howcome: yep, least surprise
  175. # [18:21] <glazou> howcome: but what will happen column-span integer value
  176. # [18:22] <glazou> alexmog: we are trying to optimize for cases that are rare
  177. # [18:22] * Quits: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.118) (Quit: arronei)
  178. # [18:22] <glazou> alexmog: use cases that don't really exist
  179. # [18:22] <Zakim> -bradk
  180. # [18:22] <glazou> alexmog: make sure elements don't have margins ?
  181. # [18:23] * bradk pressed the wrong button on his phone
  182. # [18:23] <glazou> howcome: what if you column span all and margin 10em, does not look like it multicolor at all ; no collapsing then?
  183. # [18:23] <glazou> howcome: very natural to have collapsing happen then
  184. # [18:23] <glazou> … not really insisting on this edge case
  185. # [18:23] <Bert> (Typical case in favor of collapsing: <div><h1><h2.subtitle><p>...</div> with 'div {columns: 20em} h1, h2 {span: all}')
  186. # [18:23] <glazou> fantasai: I agree with howcome but would make more sense to have them collapse
  187. # [18:23] <glazou> … two things make sense to me
  188. # [18:24] <Zakim> +bradk
  189. # [18:24] <glazou> … be a formatting context root
  190. # [18:24] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172) (Ping timeout)
  191. # [18:24] <glazou> … take all consecutive lets that have same column span value and wrap them in anon formatting context root and in that margins collapse
  192. # [18:25] <Bert> s/lets/elements/
  193. # [18:25] <glazou> .. children would collapse margin with column spanning parent
  194. # [18:26] <glazou> howcome: reasonable but what if column span all or one let and 2 on next
  195. # [18:26] <Bert> s/column-span integer/if column-span has integer/
  196. # [18:26] <glazou> howcome: fine solution to the problem
  197. # [18:26] <glazou> … but I would like to have alexmog with me on that
  198. # [18:26] <glazou> … msft has not done it that way
  199. # [18:27] * Quits: dsinger_ (dsinger@65.50.217.177) (Ping timeout)
  200. # [18:27] <glazou> alexmog: I did not have a chance to think about it before
  201. # [18:27] <glazou> … if we can avoid margin collapsing it would be nice here
  202. # [18:27] <Zakim> -bradk
  203. # [18:27] <glazou> … no decision yet
  204. # [18:27] <glazou> howcome: need a week to review it?
  205. # [18:27] <glazou> alexmog: need to get in touch with implementors
  206. # [18:27] <glazou> howcome: fine
  207. # [18:28] <glazou> glazou: next week's agenda?
  208. # [18:28] <glazou> stevez: technical question
  209. # [18:28] <Zakim> +bradk
  210. # [18:28] * glazou this discussion is hard to minute
  211. # [18:29] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11)
  212. # [18:29] <glazou> fantasai: default value of column-span?
  213. # [18:29] <glazou> Bert: none
  214. # [18:29] <glazou> howcome: yeah
  215. # [18:29] <glazou> howcome: used to be 1 but changed
  216. # [18:29] <Zakim> -dsinger
  217. # [18:29] <Zakim> +[Apple.a]
  218. # [18:29] <dsinger> zakim, [apple.a] has dsinger
  219. # [18:29] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  220. # [18:30] <florian> steve's question was: where there is only 1 column, do spaning elements' margin collapse with non spanning ones? answer was no.
  221. # [18:30] <Zakim> -fantasai
  222. # [18:30] <glazou> glazou: Shepherd, please send feedback
  223. # [18:30] <glazou> glazou: checklist for WD publications
  224. # [18:30] <glazou> glazou: comments?
  225. # [18:30] <Bert> (I wonder if that means that we can replace 'overflow: auto' with 'column-span: all' now in order to contain child floats in the element's height...)
  226. # [18:31] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/publish
  227. # [18:31] <glazou> Bert: comment about the blog
  228. # [18:31] <glazou> Bert: some people don't have a blog account
  229. # [18:31] * Joins: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.118)
  230. # [18:31] <glazou> Bert: new blog system next week, all accounts will be renewed
  231. # [18:31] <glazou> Bert: if you don't have an account now, you'll have one next week
  232. # [18:32] <Zakim> +fantasai
  233. # [18:32] <glazou> Bert: if you have no account and have something to blog about, please wait until next week and the new system
  234. # [18:32] <glazou> Bert: termporary state...
  235. # [18:32] * arronei whew IRC is at least running on my other computer
  236. # [18:33] <glazou> fantasai: Anton as IE?
  237. # [18:33] <glazou> glazou: Anton joined a few days ago as IE
  238. # [18:34] <Zakim> -[Apple.a]
  239. # [18:34] <Zakim> -danielweck
  240. # [18:34] <Zakim> -glazou
  241. # [18:34] <Zakim> -howcome
  242. # [18:34] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  243. # [18:34] <Zakim> -fantasai
  244. # [18:34] <Zakim> -stearns
  245. # [18:34] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  246. # [18:34] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
  247. # [18:34] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11) (Quit: dsinger)
  248. # [18:34] <Zakim> - +569003aadd
  249. # [18:34] <glazou> short meeting, fantasai to release the minutes
  250. # [18:34] <Zakim> -Andrew_Kirkpatrick
  251. # [18:34] <Zakim> -alexmog
  252. # [18:34] <Zakim> -smfr
  253. # [18:34] <Zakim> -bradk
  254. # [18:34] <Zakim> -Bert
  255. # [18:34] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Quit: Leaving.)
  256. # [18:34] <cesar> zakim, aadd is me
  257. # [18:34] <Zakim> sorry, cesar, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
  258. # [18:34] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  259. # [18:34] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  260. # [18:34] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  261. # [18:34] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
  262. # [18:34] <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], dsinger, danielweck, glazou, +1.206.550.aaaa, stearns, hober, arronei, +1.650.275.aabb, bradk, smfr, fantasai, +47.23.69.aacc, howcome, Bert, kojiishi,
  263. # [18:34] <Zakim> ... SteveZ, +569003aadd, +1.425.246.aaee, alexmog, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, [Apple]
  264. # [18:35] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  265. # [18:35] * Parts: florian (florianr@114.181.159.79)
  266. # [18:35] * Quits: danielweck (danielweck@86.158.24.42) (Quit: danielweck)
  267. # [18:35] <cesar> zakim, +569003aadd is me
  268. # [18:35] <Zakim> sorry, cesar, I do not recognize a party named '+569003aadd'
  269. # [18:37] * Quits: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.11) (Quit: smfr)
  270. # [18:38] * Quits: myakura (myakura@203.136.181.177) (Client exited)
  271. # [18:39] * Quits: plinss_ (plinss@129.215.5.255) (Quit: plinss_)
  272. # [18:40] * Quits: howcome (howcome@213.236.208.247) (Ping timeout)
  273. # [18:51] <karl> Have you compiled a timeline of the CSS properties across spec versions
  274. # [18:59] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35) (Ping timeout)
  275. # [19:10] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  276. # [19:11] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35)
  277. # [19:18] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  278. # [19:34] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  279. # [19:37] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172) (Ping timeout)
  280. # [19:44] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Quit: Leaving.)
  281. # [19:56] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  282. # [20:26] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@50.132.9.217) (Quit: stearns)
  283. # [20:36] * Quits: cesar (acebal@85.152.178.139) (Quit: cesar)
  284. # [20:46] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  285. # [20:49] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172) (Ping timeout)
  286. # [20:56] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35) (Quit: alexmog)
  287. # [20:58] * Joins: stearns (anonymous@192.150.22.5)
  288. # [21:00] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  289. # [21:00] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  290. # [21:12] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58)
  291. # [21:30] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Quit: Leaving.)
  292. # [21:38] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  293. # [21:58] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  294. # [22:03] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214])
  295. # [23:18] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Quit: Leaving.)
  296. # [23:20] * Joins: tantek (tantek@76.105.159.199)
  297. # [23:23] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  298. # [23:26] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  299. # [23:41] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
  300. # [23:41] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19) (Ping timeout)
  301. # [23:42] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@69.162.16.19)
  302. # [23:44] * Joins: anne (annevk@84.208.65.156)
  303. # Session Close: Thu Sep 15 00:00:00 2011

The end :)