/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-10-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 31 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  5. # [00:19] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-syntax/#serialization is wrong, I’ll figure out how tomorrow
  6. # [00:19] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Interesting. Test case?
  7. # [00:19] <SimonSapin> red-->
  8. # [00:21] <SimonSapin> that’s the first failing 'assert parse(serialize(parse(input))) == parse(input)' for https://github.com/SimonSapin/css-parsing-tests/blob/master/component_value_list.json
  9. # [00:21] <SimonSapin> there is probably more
  10. # [00:21] <TabAtkins> That parses as IDENT(red--) DELIM (>), and serializes back out as "red--/**/>". Interesting.
  11. # [00:21] <TabAtkins> It's because I purposely simplified the DELIM rules.
  12. # [00:22] <SimonSapin> wait, no, red/**/--> is the first one failing
  13. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> Oh, that makes more sense.
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  15. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> Because I dont' mention CDC in the serialization rules.
  16. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> I can fix that.
  17. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> I'll add it to "an <ident-token> followed by a <(-token>;"
  18. # [00:24] <SimonSapin> that’s just one case, but there may be more
  19. # [00:24] <SimonSapin> I’ll draw a big table tomorrow
  20. # [00:24] <SimonSapin> but now, time to go home :)
  21. # [00:24] <TabAtkins> Yeah, checking if there are more manually.
  22. # [00:24] <SimonSapin> check all combinations
  23. # [00:24] <TabAtkins> A big table would be good. You're just checking some canon instance of each token against each other?
  24. # [00:25] <SimonSapin> I have these tests that are originally for parsing
  25. # [00:25] <SimonSapin> see link above
  26. # [00:25] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I see.
  27. # [00:25] <SimonSapin> I’ll need to add more to trigger serialization corner cases
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  29. # [00:27] <SimonSapin> I wonder if we should make that list a non-normative note, and have the normative requirement be "parse(serialize(parse(text))) == parse(text)" for any sequence of Unicode text
  30. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> At least, we should include that as a normative req, and have a note that any discrepancy between this req and the results of the list shoudl be considered a standards bug and reported.
  31. # [00:28] <SimonSapin> yeah, but until that bug is reported the general requirements wins
  32. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> I've got one or two other places in my specs where I state a normative req in two ways and say that they should match.
  33. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  34. # [00:28] <SimonSapin> meaning the table doesn’t need to be normative :)
  35. # [00:29] <SimonSapin> also, tweaking a note as we find issues is less likely to set us back in W3C process :)
  36. # [00:30] <TabAtkins> Whatevs, bugfixing is fine. It's not like we're changing anything normative, since the other line'll already be covering the error. ^_^
  37. # [00:30] <SimonSapin> anyway, tomorrow.
  38. # [00:30] <SimonSapin> bye
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  219. # [18:42] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: This is what I have so far http://result.dabblet.com/gist/7253925/2fa9fc52072dd639dd0e4e657e6b68ad1ae6f726
  220. # [18:42] <SimonSapin> Except for '(' single characters mean delim
  221. # [18:43] <SimonSapin> I’m wondering if the spec should have a table like this prose that says the same
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  225. # [18:50] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: Also, I’d rather avoid Delim(\) entirely
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  227. # [18:50] <SimonSapin> right now it only exists when \ is followed by a newline
  228. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> What do you mean by that?
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  230. # [18:52] <SimonSapin> Not sure how to avoid it, but it’s a pain
  231. # [18:52] <SimonSapin> also, serializing bad-string and bad-url
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  235. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> Ah, you want to avoid the parser ever emitting a Delim(\), I see.
  236. # [18:58] <SimonSapin> yes
  237. # [18:59] <TabAtkins> Well, we could just eat it in that one situation.
  238. # [18:59] <SimonSapin> hum, it’s followed by a newline, so we’ll have a whitespace token
  239. # [19:00] <SimonSapin> meaning that stuff that was previously invalid becomes valid
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  241. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but likely in a case that no one cares about.
  242. # [19:01] <SimonSapin> you mean it’s unlikely enough to appear on the web that the compat risk is low enough?
  243. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  244. # [19:04] <SimonSapin> should I try and sneak in serialization changes in the LC publication?
  245. # [19:04] <SimonSapin> I already sent a zip file, but it’s scheduled for tuesday
  246. # [19:06] <TabAtkins> Yeah, do it. You still planning on making "must roundtrip" the actual normative requirement, and putting in that table as an informative note?
  247. # [19:07] <SimonSapin> yes
  248. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> Cool, go for it.
  249. # [19:07] <SimonSapin> table or prose?
  250. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> I like the table.
  251. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> Assuming you fill it out enough that the rows dont' look all haggard and dumb.
  252. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> ^_^
  253. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> The tables, that is.
  254. # [19:07] <SimonSapin> yeah, I need empty <td>s
  255. # [19:08] <TabAtkins> And you're pretty sure this is exhaustive?
  256. # [19:08] <SimonSapin> I may have made mistakes, but I started with a full table of all token pairs
  257. # [19:09] <astearns> zip files - I've never zipped anything up for publication. I've just pointed to the current ED in the repository
  258. # [19:09] <SimonSapin> and split delim into the various cases where it’s emitted
  259. # [19:09] <Ms2ger> astearns, I guess you aren't fantasai :)
  260. # [19:09] <astearns> are zip files actually needed?
  261. # [19:09] <plh> nope
  262. # [19:09] <SimonSapin> astearns, I suppose zip files are a tiny bit less work for the webmaster
  263. # [19:10] <plh> whatever you have and is good enough for us to understand
  264. # [19:10] <astearns> ok, thanks :)
  265. # [19:10] <SimonSapin> but Bikeshed should generate them :)
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  267. # [19:14] <TabAtkins> astearns: Actually delivering the zips is good, because it means you can make the necessary tweaks, like moving default.css into the folder and adjusting the <link> for it.
  268. # [19:14] <TabAtkins> But yeah, generating that is something on my todo list for Bikeshed.
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  272. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: The railroad bug was a remnant from you. ^_^
  273. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> You tried to pull a calculation out of a loop when generating Choice, but accidentally messed up one of the references.
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  279. # [19:55] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Welp, never mind, the document is already in place. Bert moved fast.
  280. # [19:55] <TabAtkins> Oh well, we'll just put it into the ED and have the changes there in a few weeks.
  281. # [19:58] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Well, we need to correct the railroad diagram anyway, so I guess sending an additional version to copy up is necessary in any case.
  282. # [19:59] <TabAtkins> So we can still fix the serialization bit too.
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  302. # [21:30] <krit> TabAtkins: Bikeshed ping
  303. # [21:33] <Ms2ger> Call it 'box'
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  306. # [22:00] <TabAtkins> krit: pong
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  310. # [22:08] <fantasai> astearns, plh, TabAtkins, SimonSapin: I've had the webmaster refuse to publish unless either Bert set things up or I gave him a zipfile
  311. # [22:09] <fantasai> s/unless/until/
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  313. # [22:10] <fantasai> astearns: I have no idea how you get things published, the only method I've had work is to ask Bert, failing that ask plh, or zip things up myself
  314. # [22:10] <astearns> fantasai: FYI: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Oct/0074.html
  315. # [22:11] <astearns> the digipub interest group is collecting feedback on CSS3Text
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  317. # [22:11] <astearns> I expect Bert has been helping me out without mentioning the steps he has to go through
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  321. # [22:26] <fantasai> astearns: Yeah, if Bert does it, everything just works out :)
  322. # [22:26] <fantasai> astearns: I just seem to have trouble catching his attention half the time :/
  323. # [22:27] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  324. # [22:27] <fantasai> astearns: Thanks for the link
  325. # [22:29] <fantasai> astearns: I'm glad to see people reviewing the spec :)
  326. # [22:31] * Ms2ger wonders why this isn't automated
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  331. # [22:49] <fantasai> Ms2ger: Historical reasons, I think. :)
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  345. # [23:42] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: I’m sure the railroad bug was my fault, but having worked on it more recently it was probably easier for you to fix it :)
  346. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> Yeah, it was fine. All fixed.
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  348. # [23:46] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: for zip files, (and conformance to pubrule about stylesheet order), should Bikeshed know about default.css?
  349. # [23:46] <TabAtkins> It's gonna need to, yeah.
  350. # [23:46] <TabAtkins> The option'll need to be specific to the CSSWG, so it knows to look upwards and copy default.css from the repo.
  351. # [23:47] <SimonSapin> how about a Stylesheet metadata?
  352. # [23:47] <TabAtkins> Like a url?
  353. # [23:49] <SimonSapin> Stylesheet: ../default.css
  354. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> Problem is that we have to modify the margin thing anyway for publishing. Though I guess I can handle that by manually adding another stylesheet that fixes the body margins.
  355. # [23:49] <SimonSapin> it would have to be both a URL and a filename, for copying into the zip
  356. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> /width
  357. # [23:50] <fantasai> You could just generically shift any CSS files that are not in the spec's own directory
  358. # [23:50] <fantasai> and modify the links accordingly
  359. # [23:50] <TabAtkins> Yeah, probably doable.
  360. # [23:51] <fantasai> Since that needs to be done for any spec, no matter what the CSS or where it lives
  361. # [23:51] <fantasai> if it's not on www.w3.org or in the directory itself
  362. # [23:51] <fantasai> Still need to special case the max-width thing
  363. # [23:51] <TabAtkins> I need to grab all the externals, actually. Styles and scripts.
  364. # [23:51] <fantasai> Oh
  365. # [23:51] <SimonSapin> max-width could be in an ED-specific stylesheet
  366. # [23:51] <fantasai> You have to remove all the scripts
  367. # [23:51] <TabAtkins> What?
  368. # [23:51] <fantasai> SimonSapin: That's a good idea
  369. # [23:52] <fantasai> The scripts that aren't hosted by the document itself
  370. # [23:52] <fantasai> like the ones that pull from the test suite data
  371. # [23:52] <fantasai> Those have to be removed currently :(
  372. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> But things like, say, doing syntax highlighting of code blocks.
  373. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> Those are useful to maintain.
  374. # [23:52] <fantasai> Yeah, those are useful
  375. # [23:52] <fantasai> but ideally, shouldn't we be generating static output for that?
  376. # [23:52] <SimonSapin> syntax highlighting can be done in Python by bikeshed
  377. # [23:53] <TabAtkins> I guess, yeah.
  378. # [23:53] <fantasai> It's not really something that needs to be dynamic
  379. # [23:53] <SimonSapin> http://pygments.org/
  380. # [23:53] <TabAtkins> But someone else already did the work for me. :/
  381. # Session Close: Fri Nov 01 00:00:00 2013

The end :)