/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-04-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 16 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  42. # [09:24] <krit> fantasai: Hi. I sent a couple of emails to www-style to solve open issues after LC. Could you take a look again and be specific if or what you think should be changed? Thanks a lot in advance!
  43. # [09:29] <krit> TabAtkins: by saying you don't want to fix RECs, you are actually an active participant on making the W3C look bad. Ditto with not wanting to leave CR.
  44. # [09:29] <krit> TabAtkins: implementations hold back on implementing image() because there isn't even a test suite
  45. # [09:30] <krit> TabAtkins: CR is just one step, but not the step where we should feel comfortable
  46. # [09:30] <krit> TabAtkins: (we never should)
  47. # [09:31] <krit> TabAtkins: If REC or not, fixing the spec is an ongoing process, if you think you are done once you have a REC you would do it wrong anyway
  48. # [09:32] <krit> TabAtkins: versioning a spec still is an important part of the industry which does not just consist out of browser implementers
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  53. # [10:07] <krit> plinss: the latest draft of the AB that I saw allowed normative references to texts that can be seen as specifications. It still requires the spec editor to judge if the referenced document is static and won't change. While the first point applies to WHATWG now, the later doesn't.
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  74. # [16:36] <TabAtkins> krit: Make REC less of a hellhole of slow progress and bureaucracy, and I'll care more.
  75. # [16:36] <TabAtkins> "Not wanting to leave CR" is not equal to "hates tests".
  76. # [16:39] <TabAtkins> It's equal to "I want to be able to update the spec as necessary and prudent over time, without having to deal with a lot of Process crap that doesn't help anyone".
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  78. # [16:52] <TabAtkins> I'm just super confused why you would possibly think that I think fixing the *isn't* an ongoing process. That's... pretty much my entire point in a nutshell, and precisely why I hold my stated position.
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  94. # [17:19] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  95. # [17:19] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 41 minutes
  96. # [17:19] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak)
  97. # [17:19] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-css-irc
  98. # [17:19] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  99. # [17:19] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  100. # [17:20] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Apr/0171.html'
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  102. # [17:25] <krit> TabAtkins: Scientific notations are not allowed in V&U while they are in CSS 2.2. Should that be fixed in V&U? http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/CR-css3-values-20130730/#numbers
  103. # [17:28] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  104. # [17:28] <SimonSapin> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-values/#numbers refers to Syntax which does have scinot
  105. # [17:28] <SimonSapin> but also defines "zero or more decimal digits ..."
  106. # [17:28] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but the informal definition doesn't mention that.
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  114. # [17:57] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  115. # [17:57] <Zakim> +dael
  116. # [17:57] <dael> ScibeNick: dael
  117. # [17:57] <Zakim> +??P3
  118. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, ??P3 is me
  119. # [17:58] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  120. # [17:58] <Zakim> + +1.720.897.aaaa
  121. # [17:58] <glenn> zakim, aaaa is me
  122. # [17:58] <Zakim> +glenn; got it
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  124. # [17:58] <Zakim> +dauwhe
  125. # [17:58] <Zakim> +Stearns
  126. # [17:59] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  127. # [17:59] <Zakim> +SGalineau
  128. # [17:59] <dauwhe> Zakim, IPcaller is AH_Miller
  129. # [17:59] <Zakim> +AH_Miller; got it
  130. # [18:00] * sylvaing_ wonders whose voice that was...
  131. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +1.281.305.aabb
  132. # [18:00] <TabAtkins> zakim, aabb is me
  133. # [18:00] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
  134. # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P5
  135. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Bert
  136. # [18:01] <Zakim> +fantasai
  137. # [18:01] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P5 is me
  138. # [18:01] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
  139. # [18:01] <SimonSapin> probably
  140. # [18:02] <Zakim> +??P31
  141. # [18:03] <gregwhitworth> Zakim ??P31 is me
  142. # [18:03] <glazou> Zakim, ??P31 is gregwhitworth
  143. # [18:03] <Zakim> +gregwhitworth; got it
  144. # [18:03] <Zakim> +ChrisL
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  147. # [18:03] * ChrisL zakim, mute me
  148. # [18:03] * Zakim ChrisL should now be muted
  149. # [18:03] * ChrisL coughs
  150. # [18:04] * glazou too but cannot mute himself eh
  151. # [18:04] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
  152. # [18:04] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  153. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Plh
  154. # [18:04] <dael> glazou:let's get started.
  155. # [18:04] <dael> glazou: plinss isn't going to be here today. Any extras? I saw TabAtkins's
  156. # [18:05] <dael> Topic: Tab's Extra Item
  157. # [18:05] <Zakim> +dbaron
  158. # [18:05] <Zakim> +??P39
  159. # [18:05] <dael> TabAtkins: The X unit says that if font metrics are impossible you can use a fallback, but ch doesn't have similar wording
  160. # [18:05] <SimonSapin> s/X unit/ex unit/
  161. # [18:05] <dael> ...: I jsut suggest we have similar wording that allows the fallback in the exact same cases
  162. # [18:05] <dael> TabAtkins: Any obj?
  163. # [18:05] <SimonSapin> s/fallback/fallback of 0.5em/
  164. # [18:05] <dael> glazou: I saw ChrisL say he's okay
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  166. # [18:06] <dael> glazou: Any other opinoins? Objections?
  167. # [18:06] <dael> glazou: No one cares?
  168. # [18:06] <fantasai> seems fine to me
  169. # [18:06] <dael> glazou: No obj?
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  171. # [18:06] <dbaron> I wouldn't want this fallback to happen too often, but it sounds ok
  172. # [18:06] <dael> plh: There was an IRC comment that said it would be easier to just register ???
  173. # [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: That seems inconcistant with the X unit
  174. # [18:06] <glazou> s/plh/SimonSapin
  175. # [18:07] <dael> plh: I don't really have an opinion
  176. # [18:07] <glazou> s/register/not support the ch unit
  177. # [18:07] <Zakim> + +1.206.992.aacc
  178. # [18:07] * glazou dael, that’s SimonSapin, not plh
  179. # [18:07] <MaRakow> zakim, aacc is me
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  181. # [18:07] <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
  182. # [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: If it means syntax error you won't know it's font sruff after parsing time. If it's something else you'll fail wierd so it may as well be as cose as possible
  183. # [18:07] <dael> SimonSapin: Okay
  184. # [18:07] <Zakim> +krit
  185. # [18:07] <dael> glazou: Any obj?
  186. # [18:07] <dbaron> s/X unit/ex unit/
  187. # [18:07] <dael> RESOLVED: Default for CH unit is 0.5EM
  188. # [18:07] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  189. # [18:08] <dael> Topic: Add -x/-y longhands to background-* properties
  190. # [18:08] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Apr/0085.html
  191. # [18:08] <dael> TabAtkins: So several browsers, webkit blink have suppored backgroud-position x/y
  192. # [18:08] <dael> TabAtkins: There's been some debate on this but I believe the plano n record is that we're going to add both varients of names and have a mechanisim to decide whigh
  193. # [18:09] <dael> TabAtkins: That allows us to add both background-position and background-repeat x/y
  194. # [18:09] <dael> TabAtkins: So I thinkw e should add because authors rely on it
  195. # [18:09] * glazou has sound issues with VOIP, please let me rejoin
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  197. # [18:09] <dael> TabAtkins: I think it gets odd with size, but we can make it work. I'm not sure if there are others that need to be split, position, size and repeat
  198. # [18:09] <Zakim> -glazou
  199. # [18:09] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  200. # [18:10] <dael> dbaron: I'm definitly in favor of it for background-position, but I'd like to see data on who supports the others, esp. size
  201. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.415.231.aadd
  202. # [18:10] <dbaron> dbaron: ... b/c of the difficulties with cover and contain
  203. # [18:10] <Zakim> +??P53
  204. # [18:10] * glazou is back
  205. # [18:10] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't know if anyone does size, but webkit for repeat with some odd work arounds. I'm not sure if anyone else does, though.
  206. # [18:10] <glazou> Zakim, ??P53 is me
  207. # [18:10] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  208. # [18:10] <plh> q+
  209. # [18:10] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
  210. # [18:10] <koji> zakim, +1.415.231.aadd is me
  211. # [18:10] <Zakim> +koji; got it
  212. # [18:10] <dael> ???: For IE we support it witht he value of repeat x and repeat y
  213. # [18:10] <dael> TabAtkins: They background repeat prop with those keywords?
  214. # [18:10] <gregwhitworth> Yeah I'm testing background-position-x and that doesn't work in IE
  215. # [18:10] <dael> ???: Right
  216. # [18:10] <gregwhitworth> So webkit only
  217. # [18:11] <plh> q-
  218. # [18:11] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  219. # [18:11] <dael> ???: We don't support individual prop, just the one property with those values
  220. # [18:11] <Zakim> +BrianKardell
  221. # [18:11] <MaRakow> s/???/MaRakow
  222. # [18:11] <Bert> q+ to say the reason for bg-x/bg--y was sprites, but that reason no longer exists.
  223. # [18:11] * Zakim sees Bert on the speaker queue
  224. # [18:11] <dael> koji: I think that esp. fantasai or someone from Mozilla was opposed in the past.
  225. # [18:11] <sylvaing_> Bert, why does it no longer exist?
  226. # [18:11] * glazou has a LOT of sound issues, sound goes to zero every 20 seconds
  227. # [18:11] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  228. # [18:11] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
  229. # [18:12] <dael> fantasai: It was largely b/c concern about interact with logical version of prop and if that's sorted, and I think it might be, than there's not reason not to
  230. # [18:12] <Zakim> + +33.1.34.51.aaee
  231. # [18:12] <Zakim> -glazou
  232. # [18:12] <dael> fantasai: It's a question of if this is compart with start and end keywords
  233. # [18:12] <glazou> Zakim, aaee is me
  234. # [18:12] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  235. # [18:12] <dael> TabAtkins: Plan is to support background position block and other features.
  236. # [18:12] <dael> koji: We had to use adjust position?
  237. # [18:12] <dael> TabAtkins: Right now position and repeat. Those are the two I'd like resolution on today
  238. # [18:13] <dael> fantasai: I think we want more data on repeat
  239. # [18:13] * sylvaing_ will offer beer for background-position-z
  240. # [18:13] <dael> ...: Let's just position now
  241. # [18:13] <TabAtkins> background-position-block/background-position-inline
  242. # [18:13] * bkardell_ makes a mental note that asking zakim for the code is super handy... just spent 10 minutes trying to get it via email account
  243. # [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: He asked who supported.
  244. # [18:13] <dael> dbaron: So what are the values of repeat x/y?
  245. # [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: yes/no?
  246. # [18:13] * glazou bkardell_ eheh
  247. # [18:13] <dael> dbaron: I'm okay with position and repeat
  248. # [18:13] <TabAtkins> s/yes\/no/repeat and no-repeat/
  249. # [18:13] <dael> SimonSapin: I'd liek aproposal on how we'll do logical directions
  250. # [18:14] <dael> fantasai: I think this should be B&B 4 along with the logical keyowrds
  251. # [18:14] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't want to delay to 4 since it's not real yet and both these prop have been supported for a long time
  252. # [18:14] <dael> ...: position can get into 3's CR and repeat could likely too
  253. # [18:14] <dael> dbaron: I'd rather not add to 3. We've done it too much.
  254. # [18:15] <dael> koji: So if we do 4 it should be in version 1
  255. # [18:15] <dael> fantasai: I think we should do this in 4 and people can support earlier.
  256. # [18:15] <koji> s/koji/???/
  257. # [18:15] <astearns> s/koji/krit/
  258. # [18:15] <dael> fantasai: x and y have been around for a long time.
  259. # [18:15] <dael> fantasai: We have a legacy prefix and clause
  260. # [18:15] * sylvaing_ suspects 1/4 of our CRs is B&B3
  261. # [18:15] <dael> TabAtkins: So add background position and background repleat x/y?
  262. # [18:16] <dael> plh: The reason to have these in the past was to quickly switch BG but now that we're using media segments, do we still need it?
  263. # [18:16] * ChrisL hears breakup
  264. # [18:16] <plh> s/plh/Bert/
  265. # [18:16] <dael> s/plh/simonsapin
  266. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P2
  267. # [18:16] <fantasai> s/segments/fragments/
  268. # [18:16] <krit> s/o if we do 4 it should be in version 1/o if we do it in 3 it should be in version CSS Masking 1 as well?/
  269. # [18:16] <dael> TabAtkins: No one supports media fragments yet
  270. # [18:16] <fantasai> dbaron: Gecko supports it
  271. # [18:17] <dael> TabAtkins: They're used commonly
  272. # [18:17] <dael> glazou: dbaron did you say gecko supports?
  273. # [18:17] <dbaron> ... or we're very close to it
  274. # [18:17] <dael> dbaron: I'm not sure we're close
  275. # [18:17] * fantasai glazou, I have a follow-up to Bert's point
  276. # [18:17] <Zakim> +??P4
  277. # [18:17] <Zakim> -??P39
  278. # [18:17] <dael> MaRakow: It'll be a while before people can depend on it
  279. # [18:17] <glazou> q?
  280. # [18:17] * Zakim sees Bert on the speaker queue
  281. # [18:17] <Bert> q-
  282. # [18:17] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  283. # [18:17] <sylvaing_> s/MaRakow/sgalineau
  284. # [18:17] * Joins: Rossen_ (~Rossen@public.cloak)
  285. # [18:17] <dael> fantasai: So one of the...this is different but in the images 4 draft we have a function that takes comma seperated list, but no one supports it
  286. # [18:18] * Joins: kawabata (~uid24584@public.cloak)
  287. # [18:18] <dael> ...: But there were various reasons to support. We marked comma seperated as at-risk and I think we should drop that.
  288. # [18:18] <dael> ??: Webkit it is mostly the test suite that's missing.
  289. # [18:18] <glazou> s/??/krit
  290. # [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: I can work on that now that I know it's a thing
  291. # [18:18] <dael> fantasai: The test suite for what?
  292. # [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: Image function
  293. # [18:19] <dael> fantasai: I still think we should push comma to level 4 and figure out how it can interact
  294. # [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: Can we defer since that's tangential?
  295. # [18:19] <dael> fantasai: yes.
  296. # [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: So from before, are the obj to background position and background repeat x/y in Levl 4?
  297. # [18:19] <dael> fantasai: I'm okay if we add logical keywords
  298. # [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: Sure.
  299. # [18:19] <dael> glazou: Sounds like a compromise
  300. # [18:19] <fantasai> s/keywords/keywords at the same time so we can make sure they work out correctly/
  301. # [18:20] <dael> bert: I would like to have a follow-up resolution
  302. # [18:20] <dael> glazou: Okay
  303. # [18:20] <dael> glazou: Any obj to setting -x/-y to background-position?
  304. # [18:20] <fantasai> s/bert/krit/
  305. # [18:20] <dael> bert: I don't think we should add prop that make things confusiong for authors. They asked for position that's great, but if they don't want something else we shouldn't
  306. # [18:21] <dael> glazou: I think browsers are impl the longhands
  307. # [18:21] * Zakim dael, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  308. # [18:21] * krit is the perfect voice imitator
  309. # [18:21] <dael> ???: For the background repeat we support repeat-x repeat-y because we thought of those as mutually exclusing. What would the both specify to repeat
  310. # [18:21] <astearns> s/???/rossen/
  311. # [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: That's a longstanding part of BG. Those values for position translate into longhand values.
  312. # [18:21] * glazou thanks astearns
  313. # [18:21] <dael> ...: Balckgroun-repeat-x becomes background-repeat-x-repeat
  314. # [18:22] <dael> rossen: So when I spec that they both repeat, are you saying only one repeats?
  315. # [18:22] * Joins: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak)
  316. # [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: That'st he repeat value. it has four values, repeat on either end
  317. # [18:22] <Bert> s/ They asked for position that's great, but if they don't want something else we shouldn't/They can use position already, so unless there is a really strong use case, don't add more redundant properties/
  318. # [18:22] <dael> Rossen_: Okay, than it's fine.
  319. # [18:22] <dael> glazou: So any objection?
  320. # [18:22] * Joins: florian (~Adium@public.cloak)
  321. # [18:23] <Zakim> -??P2
  322. # [18:23] * Quits: florian (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  323. # [18:23] <dael> RESOLVED: background-position-x/y background-repeat-x/y approved
  324. # [18:23] <Zakim> +??P2
  325. # [18:23] * Joins: florian (~Adium@public.cloak)
  326. # [18:23] <dael> krit: Should we also do this for ???
  327. # [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm fine either way
  328. # [18:23] <astearns> s/???/masking/
  329. # [18:23] <ChrisL> s/???/masking
  330. # [18:23] <dael> glazou: Is there a use case?
  331. # [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't know
  332. # [18:23] <kawabata> zakim, ??P2 is kawabata
  333. # [18:23] <Zakim> +kawabata; got it
  334. # [18:23] <Bert> (Resolved to put a proposal in level 4, not to put it in the existing level 3, as far as I understood.)
  335. # [18:24] <Zakim> + +44.203.575.aaff
  336. # [18:24] <krit> s/???/masking level 1/
  337. # [18:24] <dael> krit: There's prefixing so perhaps we need it for alignment
  338. # [18:24] <glazou> Bert, correct /cc dael
  339. # [18:24] <dael> krit: It can wait for masking 2
  340. # [18:24] <florian> Zakim, I am aaff
  341. # [18:24] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  342. # [18:24] * MaRakow also expects this was approved for L4 not L3
  343. # [18:24] * astearns wanted Tab's "mnyeaugh" to be minuted
  344. # [18:24] <dael> bert, thanks
  345. # [18:24] <dael> Topic: Image Orientation for Backgrounds
  346. # [18:24] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Apr/0149.html
  347. # [18:24] <dael> glazou: This is something Boris posted
  348. # [18:24] <dael> TabAtkins: I'd prefer for that to stay on list. Well, not syntax, but we can discuss idea
  349. # [18:25] <SimonSapin> background-repeat/position: also, resolved to add logical directions at the same time
  350. # [18:25] * sylvaing_ in retrospect "mnyeaugh" would have been an excellent prefix for experimental features
  351. # [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: Does anyone need refreser on idea?
  352. # [18:25] * ChrisL this is the exif rotation thing?
  353. # [18:25] <gregwhitworth> yes it would
  354. # [18:25] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  355. # [18:25] <glazou> ChrisL, yes
  356. # [18:25] * sylvaing_ did we resolve the previous issue?
  357. # [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: If you're familial with excess metadata, orientation can be whatever and some camera will record that.
  358. # [18:25] <ChrisL> zakim, unmute me
  359. # [18:25] <Zakim> ChrisL should no longer be muted
  360. # [18:25] * sylvaing_ never mind
  361. # [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: So later it can be displayed however you held your camera
  362. # [18:25] <sylvaing_> s/excess/EXIF
  363. # [18:26] <dael> TabAtkins: The web doesn't normally care, it jsut displays the same as in image. This would allow you to display how you took it.
  364. # [18:26] <dael> TabAtkins: Boris brought up where people were asking to auto-apply the rotation in the background. So the suggestion was to add this ti image function either as auto or as a keyword you can opt into
  365. # [18:27] * Joins: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak)
  366. # [18:27] <dael> ChrisL: I think option 2 is better, first b/c some cameras get it wrong and sbecause some camera don't do it so people manually rotate.
  367. # [18:27] <gregwhitworth> Not to mention it's possibly creates a huge compat issue
  368. # [18:27] * Quits: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  369. # [18:27] <dael> dbaron: I actually disagree b/c vast majority of cases, they want axis to be honored
  370. # [18:27] <ChrisL> s/camera don/viewers don/
  371. # [18:27] <dael> ...: If image always honors axis people will see it's wronga nd fix first so when we build new things we should honor
  372. # [18:27] <dbaron> s/axis/exif/
  373. # [18:27] * Joins: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak)
  374. # [18:27] <dael> TabAtkins: IF we by default, should there be a way to turn it off?
  375. # [18:28] <dael> ChrisL: There's lots of content such as JPEG where it's not honored. So we'd change exisiting webpages.
  376. # [18:28] <dael> dbaron: We're not changing existing because it's only if people use this new feature
  377. # [18:28] <dael> ChrisL: That's what I mean by opt-in
  378. # [18:28] <dael> dbaron: We want to say all the features of this new thing rotate.
  379. # [18:28] <Bert> (url() contiunues to ignore EXIF, but image() honors it. Subtle, but might just work...)
  380. # [18:29] <dael> glazou: So the conclusion is this is a feature we want and want to continue tech on ML
  381. # [18:29] * ChrisL yay go for a resolution
  382. # [18:29] <dael> TabAtkins: We may have resolved. I'm okay if image() shoudl always respect axis metadata
  383. # [18:29] <dael> dbaron: That's fine
  384. # [18:29] <dbaron> that wasn't actually me, but I'm also fine with it
  385. # [18:29] <dael> Bert: I think that's okay
  386. # [18:29] <dael> florian: As long as it's contatined to image() it's fine
  387. # [18:29] <ChrisL> \o/
  388. # [18:29] * sylvaing_ RESOLVED: DO IT
  389. # [18:29] <Bert> s/okay/okay, given that we don't have tests for it yet, anyway./
  390. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Make the image() function always respect EXIF orientation metadata
  391. # [18:30] <Zakim> +BradK
  392. # [18:30] <sylvaing_> always or will we ever want an override in image()
  393. # [18:30] <dael> fantasai: On that topic can we have the image() function drop comma seperation and decide if we want that level 4?
  394. # [18:30] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm cool with that. I'd like fallback to interop better so let's do that
  395. # [18:31] <dael> bert: Wait, then youc an't extend image later and attach mediaquery liek features like adding images.
  396. # [18:31] <astearns> s/bert/krit/
  397. # [18:31] <dael> ...: Youc an't do that later w/o commas
  398. # [18:31] <BradK> Zakim, who is here?
  399. # [18:31] <Zakim> On the phone I see dael, glenn, dauwhe, Stearns, AH_Miller, SGalineau, TabAtkins, SimonSapin, Bert, fantasai, gregwhitworth, ChrisL, Plh, dbaron, MaRakow, krit, SteveZ, koji,
  400. # [18:31] <Zakim> ... BrianKardell, glazou, ??P4, kawabata, florian, BradK
  401. # [18:31] <Zakim> On IRC I see BradK, adenilson, florian, jet, kawabata, Rossen_, lmclister, SteveZ, koji, MaRakow, bkardell_, ChrisL, dael, glenn, dauwhe, gregwhitworth, Ms2ger, antonp, RRSAgent,
  402. # [18:31] <Zakim> ... Zakim, glazou, AH_Miller, gsnedders, dbaron, plh, rodneyrehm, abucur, Garbee, arronei, renoirb, Teoli_, krit, mvujovic__, jacobg__, lmclister___, achicu___, TabAtkins,
  403. # [18:31] <Zakim> ... cbiesinger_, dfreedm_, shepazu, liam, trackbot, Bert, ed, CSSWG_LogBot, Hixie, logbot, amtiskaw__, mihnea__, sylvaing_, heycam|away, decadance, SimonSapin, hober, cabanier__,
  404. # [18:31] <Zakim> ... slightlyoff
  405. # [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: We're not removing commas, just the list feature. We're recasting image() as petter url for images
  406. # [18:31] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-css3-images-20120417/#image-fallbacks
  407. # [18:31] <dael> fantasai: We're dropping this featuer, but keeping image framents and solid color images
  408. # [18:31] <dael> krit: But not comma sep. values, just one value, one string
  409. # [18:32] <dael> ...: That's a big step. Wasn't iamge supposed to allow fallback features.
  410. # [18:32] <dael> fantasai: That'st he internt, but we want to address in level 4.
  411. # [18:32] <dael> ...: You may want to change which image due to supported, size of screen, and viasbility and there's no coherent solution.
  412. # [18:33] <dael> fantasai: Since we have those requirements when we designed fallback, we want to come up with a soluttion that makes it work together.
  413. # [18:33] <dael> fantasai: For now we know for sure we want axis metadata and solid color images to work as well as mediaqueries
  414. # [18:33] <dael> fantasai: That's all straightforward and should stay in CR
  415. # [18:33] <dael> krit: Do we need to rush or can we stay on ML
  416. # [18:33] <dael> krit: You can get feedback so people that are interested can speak
  417. # [18:34] <dael> TabAtkins: Are you impl?
  418. # [18:34] <dael> krit: No, I know there's a patch.
  419. # [18:34] <dael> krit: In general I don't feel confident resolving. Can we talk next week?
  420. # [18:34] <ChrisL> zakim, mute me
  421. # [18:34] <Zakim> ChrisL should now be muted
  422. # [18:34] <dael> ???: Quick question, if you want to override you'd have to do it manually or is there override?
  423. # [18:34] <glazou> s//??/sgalineau
  424. # [18:34] <dael> TabAtkins: Right now you'd have to do URL, but I'm fine with a keyword
  425. # [18:35] * fantasai override what?
  426. # [18:35] * fantasai missed that
  427. # [18:35] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Mar/0603.html
  428. # [18:35] <SimonSapin> fantasai, EXIF orientation
  429. # [18:35] <dael> Topic: Changing MediaQueryList to use events
  430. # [18:35] * sylvaing_ override EXIF i.e. if you need to do that, do you use url() or would we some day add a flag to image()
  431. # [18:35] <dael> TabAtkins: The thing returned by the match function has a custom fallback for when they stop matching.
  432. # [18:35] * sylvaing_ was clarifying the resolution which said image() would *always* respect EXIF
  433. # [18:36] * fantasai ah, right. :) Yeah, i think just tossing in an <angle> into image() would do it
  434. # [18:36] <dael> ...: The suggestion is to switch to using the event listener.
  435. # [18:36] <dael> TabAtkins: This is a very minor behaviour change if you're depending on specifics on how events vs callbacks are registered.
  436. # [18:36] <dael> ...: I suspect that's rare
  437. # [18:36] * sylvaing_ fantasai, an angle, really? So I could set 31.7deg? there is a use-case for that?
  438. # [18:36] <dael> TabAtkins: The benefit is this makes us more standard event style and reduces special case code.
  439. # [18:36] * krit TabAtkins just to make sure, it is not an existing patch for WebKit that makes me careful on changing image() without thinking about it more.
  440. # [18:37] <dael> TabAtkins: Boris said there's no code, but Elliott from Blink said there's a lot of extra code to do this in Firefox, Webkit and Blink
  441. # [18:37] <dael> ...: We'd liket o drop and use standard event proess
  442. # [18:37] <dael> SimonSapin: If we're starting from scratch, sure, but this has been out
  443. # [18:37] <SimonSapin> s/SimonSapin/florian/
  444. # [18:37] <dbaron> I don't know where this extra code in Firefox is.
  445. # [18:37] <dael> TabAtkins: You can move cleanly to the event-base except for a few edge cases that are difficult anyway
  446. # [18:38] <dael> ...: Only change is timing and if you register the same function multiple times if it gets called once or twice
  447. # [18:38] <dael> florian: If it's that tiny, why is it so much code?
  448. # [18:38] <dael> TabAtkins: B/c it's re-impl a protion of what we do for events
  449. # [18:38] <Zakim> -kawabata
  450. # [18:38] <dael> TabAtkins: With events we do a few lines of hookup code which works.
  451. # [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: From the thread I don't believe there were strong obj. Boris had minor obj b/c he said it was easy in code, but Elliott pointed out it wasn't.
  452. # [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: Are there obj nw?
  453. # [18:39] <BradK> sylvaing: I also question the use case for angle (something like [vertical | horizontal] seems better to me), but that's a separate topic.
  454. # [18:39] <dael> dbaron: What are the rules?
  455. # [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't know if current spec defines, but event spec does
  456. # [18:39] <Zakim> +??P2
  457. # [18:39] <dael> dbaron: What does event spec define as?
  458. # [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't know
  459. # [18:40] <dael> dbaron: I'd like to know before I agree.
  460. # [18:40] <sylvaing_> BradK: yes. my understanding is that there is at most 4 angles here so <angle> seems odd
  461. # [18:40] <kawabata> zakim, ??P2 is kawabata
  462. # [18:40] <Zakim> +kawabata; got it
  463. # [18:40] <dael> dbaron: I want any added lsiteners to not effect...Like if you add a new listener in the middle I want the event not to fire.
  464. # [18:40] <dael> TabAtkins: Is that spec to mediaquery, or is this in general?
  465. # [18:40] <dael> dbaron: I don't know.
  466. # [18:41] <dael> dbaron: Part of the problem is you can fire the event on multiple lsiteners so multiple MQ change as a result of same thing. Event spec will define a single event, but not multiple
  467. # [18:41] <dael> TabAtkins: That's b/c it would be multiple callbacks
  468. # [18:41] * sylvaing_ actually, EXIF has 8 orientations but <angle> seems even odder here http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/exif-orientation.html
  469. # [18:41] * MaRakow sylvaing, agreed there doesn't seem to be a great use case for arbitrary angles, but seems difficult to put appropriate names on the orientations of an image where you don't really know which way is up
  470. # [18:41] <dael> dbaron: What we have to define is a simgle thing causes multiple thigns to change. The MQ change adds and event to another event that changed and does that event happen if it's fired later.
  471. # [18:42] <dael> TabAtkins: It seems like you just want this to be well defined in general, not just in this case
  472. # [18:42] <BradK> sylvaing: Spec has it rounding up to 90deg increments, but even so, seems to rely on knowledge of content of whatever page and image it is used on.
  473. # [18:42] <dael> dbaron: I think the problem is if we make the change we'd have to define order. IF you can define lsiteners that fire within eachother it matters what order they happen
  474. # [18:42] <dael> TabAtkins: And I think the callbacks don't handle order
  475. # [18:42] <dael> dbaron: Byt the callbacks don't effect eachother, at least not in Gecko
  476. # [18:43] <dael> ???: Is that gecko specific? B/c unless it's in spec we have the same problem
  477. # [18:43] <dael> dbaron: So I guess I'm okay with it
  478. # [18:43] <glazou> s/??/florian
  479. # [18:43] <dael> TabAtkins: I'll post to the thread to make sure we get some discussion about that.
  480. # [18:43] <sylvaing_> MaRakow: my initial suggestion was to have a flag that says 'behave like url()'. Specifying an orientation is something else...
  481. # [18:43] <dael> glazou: Okay. So discussion continues on ML
  482. # [18:43] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Apr/0112.html
  483. # [18:43] <dael> Topic: Scrollbar Tracking Control
  484. # [18:44] <dael> TabAtkins: This is an issue that i've been trying to bring up for a year.
  485. # [18:44] * MaRakow ah, I see -- yeah, that sounds simpler
  486. # [18:44] <Zakim> -??P4
  487. # [18:44] <dael> TabAtkins: It would be conventiant if CSS could declare a scrollbar in an element once it's close to the bottom attaches to the bottom
  488. # [18:44] <dael> TabAtkins: This is common in chat windows and things were you continually add content to the bottomo f the list.
  489. # [18:44] <sylvaing_> MaRakow: yeah, the idea was there is a feature of image() you want to use but you want the EXIF metadata ignored. not sure it matters. we'll see...
  490. # [18:44] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  491. # [18:44] <Rossen_> zakim, microsoft has me
  492. # [18:44] <Zakim> +Rossen_; got it
  493. # [18:45] <dael> TabAtkins: It's quite had to get this to work well. Gmail has a constant fight witht he chat windows getting them to stick when the height can change unpredictably
  494. # [18:45] <dael> TabAtkins: So have something where if a user scrolls a certain distance from the bottom it stays?
  495. # [18:45] <dael> ???: Do we need a distance or can we say distance zero?
  496. # [18:45] <florian> s/???/florian
  497. # [18:45] <dael> dbaron: I was trying to find my objections and I think I've found them
  498. # [18:46] <dael> dbaron: I think my biggest is that I think it's not particularly related to distance form edge
  499. # [18:46] <dael> ...: it's more to which end the content shoulds tck to no matter where you are relative to the edge
  500. # [18:46] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  501. # [18:46] <Zakim> -BrianKardell
  502. # [18:46] <dael> dbaron: There's cases wehre people will add to top and you want to maintain scroll relative to top IE twitter
  503. # [18:46] <dael> dbaron: So you want to hold scroll close to bottom
  504. # [18:47] <dael> TabAtkins: Twitter adds content on both sides. So that would be if you're sufficently far from the content added so you adjust your scroll so the content doesn't move
  505. # [18:47] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0077.html
  506. # [18:47] <dael> ??: So you may not what to maintain because if you scroll up to read more, you want to stay there unless you're at the bottom.
  507. # [18:48] <astearns> s/??/florian/
  508. # [18:48] <dael> florian: I think I'm with TabAtkins, but with that user case
  509. # [18:48] <dael> TabAtkins: I think that's interesting and useful, but different. I'd be willing to look into it
  510. # [18:48] <dael> dbaron: But I think what I'm objecting to is that it should be two prop, not one.
  511. # [18:48] <dael> TabAtkins: Can you elaborate?
  512. # [18:48] <dael> dbaron: It's too long ago
  513. # [18:49] <dael> TabAtkins: Maybe it was semantic where it should be about any edge?
  514. # [18:49] <BradK> When you are at the bottom of twitter, you do NOT want to stay at the bottom when new content is added to the bottom. You want to stay on the tweet you are on.
  515. # [18:49] <dael> TabAtkins: That way you could add to either side and it would stick?
  516. # [18:49] <dael> TabAtkins: Is this something you'd like to discuss on thread?
  517. # [18:49] <dael> dbaron: One this was which end the content was coming from and the other was how different you are from the edge
  518. # [18:50] <dael> florian: I'm not sure that would work in twitter. Content can add from both sides
  519. # [18:50] <dael> TabAtkins: If you're willing to discuss on list, that's okay. I've brought it up and got crickets and I want to make progress
  520. # [18:50] <dael> dbaron: You should go ahead
  521. # [18:50] <dbaron> ... I don't have time to discuss it
  522. # [18:50] <dael> florian: If we get snapping is scroll would that fix it?
  523. # [18:51] <dael> TabAtkins: Current proposal is that the user agent defines. There may be cases where youw ant to say exactly how far you are from edge
  524. # [18:51] <dael> florian: Where would you want to not be at the edge?
  525. # [18:51] * sylvaing_ hasn't noticed that in Aurora fwiw
  526. # [18:51] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  527. # [18:51] * sylvaing_ uses IRCCloud
  528. # [18:51] <dael> TabAtkins: IRC cloud does only at edge and it messes up b/c you can't scroll through the edge. I'm not sure where the bug is, but you can be 2px from the edge and can't get all down
  529. # [18:51] <dael> florian: But if you do scroll snapping, you can do it.
  530. # [18:52] * krit sylvaing_ me neither in Safari
  531. # [18:52] * sylvaing_ agrees; hasn't seen it in Safari either
  532. # [18:52] <dael> ???: I think if you have milt snap points and the content changes enough you may snap to a point that's futher away and snap to the middle. But that would happen here too if you can define multiple
  533. # [18:52] <glazou> not sure who is speaking
  534. # [18:52] <dael> TabAtkins: This is justtop bottom left or right. And if you define distance from edge you stay the same distance.
  535. # [18:52] <sylvaing_> s/???/MaRakow
  536. # [18:52] <glazou> ok
  537. # [18:52] <dael> ???: So this is on the scroller?
  538. # [18:53] <glazou> s/???/MaRakow
  539. # [18:53] <dael> MaRakow: So when you're resizing and want to keep your content it would be off?
  540. # [18:53] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  541. # [18:53] <dael> TabAtkins: That's part encoumpassed by twitter case, but it's beyond what I'm asking for. It's interesting, but doens't tie in
  542. # [18:53] <dael> ??: Your 2px thing sounds like a bug not a use case.
  543. # [18:54] <glazou> s/??/florian
  544. # [18:54] <dael> TabAtkins: Could be, but sometimes I don't scroll all the way down and it doesn't recover.
  545. # [18:54] * sylvaing_ thinks we should define that this is a reproducible cross-browser issue that derives from CSS
  546. # [18:54] <sylvaing_> s/define/establish
  547. # [18:54] <dael> florian: If you scroll clsoe the the edge but not quite with this new prop, the person that designed the thing with incorporate scroll snapping, take you to the edge, and have you stick there.
  548. # [18:55] <Zakim> -kawabata
  549. # [18:55] <MaRakow> MaRakow: Also, I feel like this is similar to the use case for keeping the same content in view while resizing responsive web pages
  550. # [18:55] <dbaron> I think this design isn't great for extending to say whether it's distance-from-top or distance-from-bottom that you want to hold constant when the current scroll position is in the middle
  551. # [18:55] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  552. # [18:55] * sylvaing_ specifically, some simple repro of the Gmail chat logic may help here...
  553. # [18:55] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't think this links to snapping. b/c having something that moves you allt he way is sometimes useful, sometimes annoying.
  554. # [18:55] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  555. # [18:55] <dael> TabAtkins: They work well together, but shouldn't be tied together explicitly
  556. # [18:55] <dael> glazou: So any obj to continue discussion in email and, once stable, TabAtkins requests and ED?
  557. # [18:55] <dael> glazou: I think this is interesting and want to see a proposal
  558. # [18:56] <dael> TabAtkins: The proposal is in the e-mails, but we can disucss.
  559. # [18:56] <dael> glazou: I'm going to contibute too. Let me think about it
  560. # [18:56] <dael> TabAtkins: Contibution is what I need
  561. # [18:56] * Quits: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  562. # [18:56] <dael> RESOLVED: Discussion continues over e-mail
  563. # [18:56] <dael> glazou: Any remaning items that can be done in 4 minutes?
  564. # [18:56] <dael> Topic: Subgird
  565. # [18:56] * Joins: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak)
  566. # [18:57] <dael> fantasai: There was no discussion on ML
  567. # [18:57] <dael> TabAtkins: Yeah, not in 4 minutes
  568. # [18:57] <dael> glazou: Okay
  569. # [18:57] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Apr/0057.html
  570. # [18:57] <dael> TabAtkins: I think the pow operator?
  571. # [18:57] * sylvaing_ thinks subgrid is ideal for the f2f. With shots.
  572. # [18:57] <dael> Topic: calc() pow operator
  573. # [18:57] <Zakim> +??P10
  574. # [18:58] <dael> TabAtkins: So it was suggested to add pow operator to calc. There's a unit as the base on one side and the expoent ont he other.
  575. # [18:58] <BradK> Argh. What is the URL for the IRC transcript? My IRC client just crashed.
  576. # [18:58] * ChrisL hopes for the zok and bam keywords in level 5
  577. # [18:58] <dael> TabAtkins: Seems reasonable and no odd problems as long as we keep the exponent non-negative
  578. # [18:58] * sylvaing_ thinks of this every time he sees 'pow' http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101121041503/uncyclopedia/images/9/96/Pow.gif
  579. # [18:58] <dael> TabAtkins: Only issues is presidence. You'd have to use parens for anything more than a single digit.
  580. # [18:58] <fantasai> s/presidence/precedence/
  581. # [18:58] <glazou> s/presidence/precedence
  582. # [18:59] <fantasai> s/digit/number/
  583. # [18:59] <dael> TabAtkins: Presumably this is only when both are unitless
  584. # [18:59] * Quits: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  585. # [18:59] * sylvaing_ hereby proposes POW! as an alias for !important
  586. # [18:59] <dael> TabAtkins: Given that we're not using unit alg. both things need to be a number, but you can multi by 1px to convert to px
  587. # [18:59] <dael> fantasai: I missed the use case
  588. # [18:59] <dael> glazou: me too.
  589. # [18:59] <dael> glazou: I wonder if it's worth the impl. Of course the browser vendors get final word
  590. # [19:00] * MaRakow calc(1px pow 2) --> the only way to get truly square pixels
  591. # [19:00] <dael> TabAtkins: The use case was in the link. It's for mathmatically pleasing things
  592. # [19:00] <dael> glazou: I have no real opinion. I think we can, but don't see the interest
  593. # [19:00] * krit MaRakow +1
  594. # [19:00] <dael> TabAtkins: It's low value, but simple and does have cases.
  595. # [19:00] <dael> glazou: If we follow that path we'll need sin etc. because that's what we do with complex animations
  596. # [19:00] * dauwhe I'm skeptical about the use case
  597. # [19:01] <ChrisL> yay for sin/cos
  598. # [19:01] <dael> glazou: I'm not sure if we want CSS to have a full calculator
  599. # [19:01] <dael> florian: Could it be custom properties?
  600. # [19:01] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm not sure it's slippery slope, but I can understand it's not important enough.
  601. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> --pow(5, 2)
  602. # [19:01] * florian dael, that was sort of a joke, not really needed to be minuted. Sorry for poor humor
  603. # [19:02] <dael> fantasai: I think we don't have to address this. We can do vaiables so you can do variable constants. This can be a preprocessor
  604. # [19:02] <dael> SimonSapin: Did I miss the use case?
  605. # [19:02] <dael> TabAtkins: It's the link in the agenda.
  606. # [19:02] * astearns florian for the use case in the link, a custom property would work fine
  607. # [19:02] <dael> glazou: I'm not hearing consensus. I think we can do this in the future, but it's not high priority.
  608. # [19:02] <dael> ChrisL: I think the common opinion is we're unsure what it's for
  609. # [19:02] <sylvaing_> s/ChrisL/sgalineau
  610. # [19:03] <dael> glazou: So I think we won't resolve for the time being.
  611. # [19:03] * florian I am not surprised, these custom properties are actually pretty powerfull
  612. # [19:03] <Zakim> -dbaron
  613. # [19:03] * ChrisL resolved: add calc function, don't allow calculations
  614. # [19:03] <Zakim> -SGalineau
  615. # [19:03] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  616. # [19:03] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  617. # [19:03] <Zakim> -glenn
  618. # [19:03] <Zakim> -dauwhe
  619. # [19:03] <dael> glazou: So we're 2 minutes past the hour. The two remaing items for next week. Talk to you next week!
  620. # [19:03] <Zakim> -krit
  621. # [19:03] <Zakim> -MaRakow
  622. # [19:03] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  623. # [19:03] <Zakim> -fantasai
  624. # [19:03] <Zakim> -glazou
  625. # [19:03] <Zakim> -BradK
  626. # [19:03] <Zakim> -gregwhitworth
  627. # [19:03] <Zakim> -Bert
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  629. # [19:03] <Zakim> -koji
  630. # [19:03] <Zakim> -AH_Miller
  631. # [19:03] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  632. # [19:03] <Zakim> -florian
  633. # [19:03] <Zakim> -ChrisL
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  635. # [19:03] <Zakim> -dael
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  637. # [19:03] <Zakim> -Stearns
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  639. # [19:03] <Zakim> -Plh
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  641. # [19:03] * Rossen_ glazou used his pow to kill the discussion about pow!
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  650. # [19:08] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ??P10, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  651. # [19:08] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  652. # [19:08] <Zakim> Attendees were dael, glazou, +1.720.897.aaaa, glenn, dauwhe, Stearns, SGalineau, AH_Miller, +1.281.305.aabb, TabAtkins, Bert, fantasai, SimonSapin, gregwhitworth, ChrisL, Plh,
  653. # [19:08] <Zakim> ... dbaron, +1.206.992.aacc, MaRakow, krit, SteveZ, koji, BrianKardell, +33.1.34.51.aaee, kawabata, +44.203.575.aaff, florian, BradK, Rossen_
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  693. # [22:37] <krit> plinss: ping
  694. # [22:38] <plinss> krit: pong
  695. # [22:39] <krit> plinss: Hi. Does Shepherd parse WebIDL?
  696. # [22:39] <plinss> yep
  697. # [22:39] <krit> plinss: things like DOMString have no representation
  698. # [22:39] <krit> plinss: but are defined by WebIDL
  699. # [22:39] <krit> plinss: http://www.w3.org/TR/WebIDL/#idl-DOMString
  700. # [22:40] <plinss> ah, you were asking if it’s parsing the WebIDL spec, as opposed to WebIDL in other specs…
  701. # [22:40] <plinss> no, it’s not parsing that spec, but I can add it easily enough
  702. # [22:40] <krit> plinss: hahah, yes
  703. # [22:40] <krit> plinss: that is what I meant
  704. # [22:41] <plinss> ok, give me a minute
  705. # [22:41] <krit> plinss: it might be that it recognizes float, double and all these things as well, would it?
  706. # [22:41] <krit> plinss: so might create a bit of noise
  707. # [22:43] <plinss> Well, Shepherd would find all the anchors in the WebIDL spec, and classify the types of the <dfn> anchors, it depends on if there are <dfn>s for all the other types
  708. # [22:44] <krit> plinss: ah right
  709. # [22:44] <krit> plinss: even for IDLs in specs?
  710. # [22:44] <krit> plinss: doesn't bikeshed use your IDL parser?
  711. # [22:44] <plinss> yes, it does
  712. # [22:45] <krit> plinss: so it might create a lot of links after adding the WebIDL spec.
  713. # [22:45] <krit> plinss: Am I wrong?
  714. # [22:45] <plinss> hang on, I have to look at the bikeshed code to remember what it does exactly
  715. # [22:49] <plinss> I think it will only markup non-webidl native types, so we should be ok
  716. # [22:50] <krit> cool
  717. # [22:50] <plinss> I can always remove the spec if it causes a lot of noise
  718. # [22:51] <plinss> though I’m not sure the WebIDL spec actually has a <dfn> for DOMString
  719. # [22:51] <plinss> but I’ll add it to Shepherd anyway, and we can fix it if we need to
  720. # [23:01] <plinss> ok, it’s added, but fwfw, the webidl parser treats DOMString as a webdil-native type so it doesn’t get markup in bikeshed anyway…
  721. # [23:03] <krit> plinss: oh, ok
  722. # [23:03] <krit> plinss: probably makes sense
  723. # [23:03] <krit> plinss: thanks for adding
  724. # [23:03] <plinss> are you trying to get all the DOMString types in other spec’s IDL to link to the WebIDL spec?
  725. # [23:03] <krit> plinss: I think so
  726. # [23:04] <krit> plinss: I just checked... so far I had to make bikeshed ignore DOMString
  727. # [23:04] <krit> plinss: because it couldn't find a reference
  728. # [23:04] <plinss> hmm, was bikeshed adding the link to DOMString itself?
  729. # [23:09] <krit> plinss: I think it relied on the webidl output
  730. # [23:09] <krit> plinss: but not entirely sure
  731. # [23:09] <krit> plinss: maybe i have <a>DOMString</a> somewher
  732. # [23:09] <krit> e
  733. # [23:10] <krit> plinss: ok, <a interface>DOMString</a> is in the code, see it now
  734. # [23:10] <plinss> maybe, because it doens’t seem to cause an issue in other specs
  735. # [23:11] <plinss> ah, well in order to get _that_ to work, we have to update the WebIDL spec to actually include a <dfn> for DOMString with an ‘interface’ type, it doesn’t have that now...
  736. # [23:11] <plinss> there doesn’t appear to ba a <dfn> for it at all at this point
  737. # [23:12] <krit> plinss: We need to republish WebIDL anyway. Shall I ask Cameron to update the spec, or isn't it worth it?
  738. # [23:12] <krit> heycam|away: --^
  739. # [23:12] <plinss> yeah, it’s probably worth it
  740. # [23:13] <krit> plinss: <dfn dfn-type=interface>DOMString</dfn> it would be?
  741. # [23:13] <plinss> yes
  742. # [23:13] <krit> plinss: cool, thanks!
  743. # [23:14] <plinss> and it also needs an id or to be in an element with an anchor
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  746. # [23:14] <plinss> e.g. the <dfn> could be in the section header
  747. # [23:18] <krit> plinss: I hope heycam|away reads the comments :)
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  749. # [23:30] <plinss> krit: fwiw, it would be a fairly simple change to the WebIDL parser that bikeshed uses to make it turn DOMString in IDL uses to links
  750. # [23:31] <krit> plinss: I think it would be useful... but WebIDL spec still needs to change
  751. # [23:31] <plinss> but it would also want to turn ByteString, object, Date and RegExp into links too, so they’d all need the proper <dfn> markup in the WebIDL spec
  752. # [23:31] <krit> plinss: ah understand...
  753. # [23:31] * krit is going offline now
  754. # [23:32] <krit> plinss: thanks for your help again
  755. # [23:32] <plinss> np
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  764. # Session Close: Thu Apr 17 00:00:00 2014

The end :)