/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-06-25 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Jun 25 00:00:01 2014
# Session Ident: #css
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# [02:29] * plinss changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jun/0350.html'
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# [17:59] <krit> plinss: thanks a lot!
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# [17:59] <SimonSapin> Is Zakim not on this channel?
# [17:59] <krit> SimonSapin: do you miss him?
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# [17:59] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-css-irc
# [17:59] <dael> It feels lonely without him. Who is going to tell me to use commas?
# [18:00] <fantasai> lol
# [18:00] <SimonSapin> krit: much sad
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# [18:00] <glenn> zakim, who's here?
# [18:00] <Zakim> sorry, glenn, I don't know what conference this is
# [18:00] <Zakim> On IRC I see bkardell_, RRSAgent, Zakim, glenn, gregwhitworth, lmclister, dael, abinader, adenilson, dauwhe, dbaron, plh, darktears, Liam, stryx`, dholbert, logbot, kangil,
# [18:00] <Zakim> ... pdurbin, krijnhoetmer, fantasai, plinss, astearns_, shepazu, gsnedders, CSSWG_LogBot, Bert, hober, birtles, abucur__, sylvaing__, amtiskaw, mihnea___, paul___irish, ed,
# [18:00] <Zakim> ... _martinwolf, SimonSapin, sylvaing, shans, leaverou_away, projector, alexmog, renoirb, Hixie, dfreedm, slightlyoff, cbiesinger__, achicu____, cabanier, jacobg____, TabAtkins,
# [18:00] <Zakim> ... Teoli__, lmclister___
# [18:00] <fantasai> Zakim, this is style
# [18:00] <Zakim> ok, fantasai; that matches Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
# [18:00] <plinss> zakim, this is style
# [18:00] <Zakim> plinss, this was already Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
# [18:00] <glenn> zakim, this is 78953
# [18:00] <Zakim> ok, plinss; that matches Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
# [18:00] <Zakim> glenn, this was already Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
# [18:00] <Zakim> ok, glenn; that matches Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
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# [18:01] * dbaron RRSAgent, make logs public
# [18:01] * RRSAgent I have made the request, dbaron
# [18:01] <fantasai> \o/
# [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aaaa
# [18:01] <Zakim> +SteveZ
# [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.281.305.aabb
# [18:01] <astearns_> zakim, aaaa is me
# [18:01] <Zakim> +astearns_; got it
# [18:01] <krit> Zakim, who is on the call?
# [18:01] <Zakim> On the phone I see dael, [IPcaller], glenn, ??P26, [Microsoft], ??P30, BrianKardell, astearns_, SteveZ, +1.281.305.aabb
# [18:01] <Zakim> +dauwhe
# [18:01] * Joins: koji (~koji@public.cloak)
# [18:01] <TabAtkins> zakim, aabb is me
# [18:01] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
# [18:01] <gregwhitworth> zakim, Microsoft has me
# [18:01] <Zakim> +gregwhitworth; got it
# [18:01] <krit> Zakim, IPcaller is me
# [18:01] <Zakim> +krit; got it
# [18:01] <Zakim> +smfr
# [18:01] <Zakim> +plinss
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# [18:02] <Zakim> +??P3
# [18:02] <Zakim> +dbaron
# [18:02] <Zakim> -??P26
# [18:03] <Zakim> +cabanier
# [18:03] <Zakim> +??P48
# [18:03] <Zakim> + +1.415.231.aacc
# [18:03] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P48 is me
# [18:03] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
# [18:03] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
# [18:03] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
# [18:03] <Zakim> +Plh
# [18:04] <koji> zakim, +1.415.231.aacc is me
# [18:04] <Zakim> +koji; got it
# [18:04] <Zakim> +fantasai
# [18:04] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:04] * Zakim sees on the phone: dael, krit, glenn, [Microsoft], ??P30, BrianKardell, astearns_, SteveZ, TabAtkins, dauwhe, smfr, plinss, ??P3, dbaron, cabanier, SimonSapin, koji, Plh, fantasai
# [18:04] <SimonSapin> Is plh-mobile like the Batmobile?
# [18:04] * Zakim [Microsoft] has gregwhitworth
# [18:04] <plh> I wish :)
# [18:05] <Zakim> +hober
# [18:05] <dael> plinss: Let's get started
# [18:05] <dael> plinss: Anything to add?
# [18:05] <dael> plh: I can do a charter update
# [18:05] <dael> plinss: Okay
# [18:05] <dael> plh: I'veg ot allt he nes. stuff. I expect the charter to the CRs and approved no later than Fri. We're all good on that front
# [18:06] <dael> plinss: Cool. Be nice to be under a charter again.
# [18:06] <dael> Topic: Upcoming F2F location
# [18:06] <dael> plinss: we were looking in Zurich?
# [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.206.992.aadd
# [18:06] <MaRakow> Zakim, aadd is me
# [18:06] <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
# [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm in a resturant. Can you hear me?
# [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: I've not yet done so. Sorry.
# [18:06] <dael> plinss: ETA?
# [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: Next week if we don't decide prior
# [18:07] <Zakim> +??P58
# [18:07] <dael> SteveZ: I assumed that we were set for Sophia/Anti so I have reservations for those dates and would obj. changing
# [18:07] <dael> plinss: Is thata non-refundable situation?
# [18:07] <dael> SteveZ: It is.
# [18:07] <dael> plinss: Anyo ther input, or should we commit?
# [18:07] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
# [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: I have no problem with that.
# [18:07] <Zakim> -fantasai
# [18:08] <dael> plh: I don't know if we have approval to host in Antib Is W3C hosting there?
# [18:08] <dael> SteveZ: That was the proposal
# [18:08] <fantasai> Zakim,[IPcaller] is fantasai
# [18:08] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
# [18:08] <dael> plh: I won't obj, but I want people to realize we're not doing it in Zurich. I hope clilly and bert made sure we have the budget
# [18:08] <dael> plinss: clilly or bert are you there? Doesn't look like it. We need to do research
# [18:09] <dael> action plh to ping bert or clilly about budgeting for the Sept F2F
# [18:09] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [18:09] <trackbot> Created ACTION-633 - Ping bert or clilly about budgeting for the sept f2f [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2014-07-02].
# [18:09] <dael> plh: FYI for those on the call the next extensible web is in Berlin on Sept 11.
# [18:09] <dael> plinss: There's something else in Berlin too
# [18:09] <dael> plh: 12th there's a CSS conf. and 13th there's another conf.
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# [18:09] <tantek> Zakim, P58 is tantek
# [18:10] <Zakim> sorry, tantek, I do not recognize a party named 'P58'
# [18:10] <dael> SteveZ: If you fly on luftansa you can get to berlin easily from nice.
# [18:10] <dael> plh: Yes
# [18:10] <tantek> zakim, ??P58 is tantek
# [18:10] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
# [18:10] <dael> Topic: CSS Masking to CR
# [18:10] <krit> http://www.w3.org/TR/css-masking-1/
# [18:10] <tantek> zakim, mute tantek
# [18:10] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
# [18:10] <dael> krit: The LC period is over. I got a lot of positive feedback.
# [18:10] <krit> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/css-masking-1/issues-lc-2014.html
# [18:10] <dbaron> As I said before, I and other Mozilla folks probably won't be able to make the week of Sept 8-12
# [18:10] <dbaron> although I still don't know for sure.
# [18:10] <dael> krit: I got one feedback with one issue so there's a typo with bordor-box initial value. I changed it to border.
# [18:11] <fantasai> s/border/auto/
# [18:11] <fantasai> right?
# [18:11] <dael> krit: Other than that there were no change requests, so I'd like to go to CR
# [18:11] * krit fantasai right
# [18:11] <dael> plinss: Any objections?
# [18:11] * smfr who’s typing loudly?
# [18:11] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:11] <dael> TabAtkins: No
# [18:11] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (19%), fantasai (30%), Plh (14%)
# [18:11] <dael> fantasai: I didn't review, but I can't object because of that.
# [18:11] <dael> RESOLVED: CSS Masking to CR
# [18:11] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:12] <dael> plinss: How are the test suites? I see 53.
# [18:12] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Plh (41%)
# [18:12] * dbaron Zakim, mute plh
# [18:12] * Zakim Plh should now be muted
# [18:12] <dael> krit: It's particular to SVG, but I'll upload from webkit. For the new parts we need mroe tests for coverage since they're not in browsers yet.
# [18:12] <dael> plinss: You'll prep the draft and ping clilly or bert?
# [18:12] <dael> krit: Yes.
# [18:12] <dael> Topic: Explaining
# [18:12] <dael> plinss: TabAtkins?
# [18:13] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
# [18:13] <SimonSapin> (plh, was the september extensible web summit announced yet? I only find stuff about the one last April.)
# [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: At the last F2F we discussed def. the style of using display-box: content and other prop
# [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: Since there in the whatwg bug dbaron objected due to performance.
# [18:13] * tantek can't believe we're still discussing styling - must be a 15+ year old thread.
# [18:13] <plh> Simon, not yet, it will be announced before the end of the week. I'm working with Dan on this.
# [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: That's fine, but I want to define it some way. A way would be to create anew display value for new lines.
# [18:14] <SimonSapin> thanks plh
# [18:14] <dael> TabAtkins: Does dbaron thinks the performance concern is large enough to presue a new method?
# [18:14] <Zakim> +ChrisL
# [18:14] <dael> dbaron: I don't know off the top of my head Maybe we can special case the one thing.
# [18:14] * tantek would love to see a history of the proposals for styling
# [18:14] <dael> dbaron: If sommething is display-box: content and has this thing inside we don't take the normal code path,, but do this other thing.
# [18:15] <dael> TabAtkins: I would pref not odd speical cases if poss
# [18:15] <dael> dbaron: Special is in code
# [18:15] * astearns_ small man trapped in a box: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE5UktH4iYY
# [18:15] <ChrisL> I would prefer not having had a br element, but there we are
# [18:15] <dael> TabAtkins: If our rec. style for it requires wierd special cases, we should address it more directly
# [18:15] <dael> fantasai: I don't agree. I think if we have a special code path that construct a frame with eq. behaviour but if other prop are different you use the normal code path, that's fine.
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: As long as to the author it behaves in a consistant way that's good. If we create a dispaly value for new lines that's harder to understand for author
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: IN addition you have various code paths you have to write in the engine
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: If we're doing this for performance improvements, creating a hole new feature seems overkill and extra work for testing and impl. and esp. author
# [18:16] <ChrisL> agree with fantasai. This is a legacy special case that we can't get rid of
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: I think it's fine.
# [18:17] <dael> fantasai: We do something wierd and special because this is common, elsewise we do the normal path.
# [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: While I would agree in the past, as more impl experience, I think having these special paths slows things down
# [18:18] <dael> fantasai: You'd need one anyway for a new method
# [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: But specifically if you have this style as this way do something magic, that's different.
# [18:18] * astearns_ now Tab's under water
# [18:18] <fantasai> s/different/different from having a special display value/
# [18:18] * MaRakow #savetab
# [18:19] <SteveZ> Is the issue one of code path complexity and therefore maintenance?
# [18:19] * fantasai just got certified for rescue diving, but is on the wrong continent
# [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: Having the special case path where if something has part styles treat it different ends up being annoying for the code and slows everything down. Removing these helps performance. I'd pref. if we do weird special, I'd rather it being it's own case.
# [18:20] * tantek agrees with TabAtkins's dislike
# [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't like where if you make a small change it goes to hell because there's a specific optimized path
# [18:20] <tantek> yes that ^^^
# [18:20] <tantek> very bad for web authors
# [18:20] <gregwhitworth> Agreed
# [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: What were asking is if you do this in this particular way it's fast, but elsewise it goes slow
# [18:20] <ChrisL> /* Don't change this code, it will */
# [18:20] <dael> fantasai: How many people will style ?
# [18:20] <tantek> zakim, unmute tantek
# [18:20] <Zakim> tantek should no longer be muted
# [18:20] <SteveZ> How much slower will this BR form be?
# [18:20] <dael> fantasai: I don't think it is worth a new feature that we have to work on and create a generic impl.
# [18:21] <dael> ??: Lots of style sheets do style with universal selector. There's lots out there and we don't know it.
# [18:21] <dael> dbaron: I think that lots of people will style is an arguement for not worrying
# [18:21] <tantek> s/??/tantek
# [18:21] <ChrisL> s/??/tantek
# [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: You mean we should make special magic?
# [18:21] <dael> dbaron: Yes.
# [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't like it,b ut I like it better than a weird special case.
# [18:22] <dael> plinss: Sounds like it's a special case one way or the other.
# [18:22] <dael> fantasai: Maybe your impl doesn't need that optimization
# [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: We almost certainly do. It's it's a prob for Mozilla, it's likely for us.
# [18:22] <dael> dbaron: I don't know it is, but I suspec it will be slower.
# [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: That's our expectationf or display-box. It'll be useful but slower
# [18:22] <dael> plinss: Sounds like this goes back on the shelf?
# [18:23] <tantek> zakim, mute tantek
# [18:23] <Zakim> tantek was already muted, tantek
# [18:23] * tantek whoa really? then how did dael hear me?
# [18:23] <dael> tantek: If we were to impl with display-content it would have perf implementaiton. For us now is line-layout without more drama. Anything more will add something to perf.
# [18:23] <tantek> s/tantek/rossen
# [18:24] <dael> fantasai: Would it be possible to define as rendered as CSS rule? Like non-overrideable? Tht was it's defined as how it's supposed to behave, but it's defined.
# [18:24] <dael> rossen: I think people mentioned that they do style a bit and i've seen evidence of it.
# [18:24] * tantek holy galloping horses!
# [18:24] <astearns_> zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:24] <dbaron> s/I think that lots of people will style/I think that authors not changing it much/
# [18:24] <fantasai> fantasai: Would it be possible to define as rendered equivalent to this CSS rule, except impl are allowed to make it non-overrideable
# [18:24] <Zakim> astearns_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P3 (19%), plinss (4%)
# [18:24] <dael> rossen: We'd take a compat hit with breaking styling and I'm not a fan of that.
# [18:25] <dael> rossen: If we end up breaking the content it'll likely be old legacy content and not likely to change. II'm not sure that's ag ood trade-off
# [18:25] <dbaron> s/arguement/argument/
# [18:25] <dael> plinss: My concern is we explicitly define it, it makes it harder to come up with a better approach later.
# [18:25] <fantasai> fantasai^: Then browsers can keep their current implementations, but at least the rendering is defined.
# [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: Another problem is that we're assuming we wont' have anything in the future that would over-ride that style. I don't think it's a stable solution overall
# [18:26] <dbaron> s/worrying/worrying about /
# [18:26] <dael> plinss: I think we need to let this percolate until we come up with something better.
# [18:26] <dael> fantasai: I thought the conclusion was we can't come up with something better because it involves makingt his a style-able box.
# [18:26] * tantek agrees with plinss
# [18:26] <dael> plinss: I'm saying one day someone might come up with another solution. I'm not willing to declare it forever unsolveable
# [18:26] <tantek> yes that ^^^
# [18:27] <dael> Topic: Flexbox percentage heights in column direction
# [18:27] <dael> TabAtkins: There is some disagreement between browsers about when a length is definate or indefenetant when it's the size of a flex-item
# [18:27] <dael> TabAtkins: Chrome says indefiniate unless there's a defined flex-basis
# [18:27] <gregwhitworth> my call just dropped
# [18:28] <dael> TabAtkins: Other browsres have different rules that I havent' been able to intuit. I'm not sure when they decide they're definite for purposes of inhereting to their children
# [18:28] <dael> TabAtkins: The things we defined as definite would say that things are definite when they have a defined flex-basis, but I'm not sure
# [18:28] <dael> fantasai: Even with a definite flex-basis, they're flexiable so should we be defining?
# [18:29] <dael> TabAtkins: With a definite flex-basis and they're flexible, it's at least theroritically okay to resolve perfentages. Firefox does. Chrome calls it indefinite
# [18:30] <dael> rossen: Question, what is the test case? You have a flex box will column directin and a flex item that's auto-suze and an item inside that is percent height?
# [18:30] <gregwhitworth> Alright, I'm back
# [18:30] <fantasai> s/will/with/
# [18:30] <dael> TabAtkins: There's varitions. The flex item is always flexible but the basis is auto, % or fixed size. The three impl are different on every one of those cases.
# [18:30] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't know the correct answer.
# [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: The posting from gregwhitworth aren't loading for me. I'm having troble giving a sensible answer.
# [18:31] <dael> fantasai: If you resolve % against any of these things, you'd resolve against a hypotetical size that may or may not be the size of the flex item?
# [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: Why?
# [18:31] <dael> fantasai: It's flexible
# [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: When child % is resolved against flex, it's after flex sizing.
# [18:31] * ChrisL your flexible friend
# [18:31] <dael> rossen: Thta's our code.
# [18:32] <dael> TabAtkins: You run flex, lay out children, resolve %
# [18:32] <dael> rossen: I think we do the same for grid
# [18:32] <dael> rossen: This is the same arguement that was being made where with componants it is nice to resolve at the top and let grid take care of the inner layers and outer shape
# [18:32] * Joins: smfr_ (~smfr@public.cloak)
# [18:32] <dael> rossen: I think we resolved on this issue back in Leon TPAC.
# [18:33] <dael> rossen: We discussed allowing % inside auto-size
# [18:33] <dael> TabAtkins: You're thinking of the cross demension where what we have is mostly right and in the spec already. This is the main demension
# [18:33] <dael> dbaron: For what it's worth dholbert prefer IE where we treat it as definitie if ti's definite at the time that matters
# [18:34] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't know if that applies to flex items with a auto base size.
# [18:34] <plinss> s/Leon/Lyon/
# [18:34] <dael> TabAtkins: That should be fine for the other cases when you have a length, flex, and then lay out your children. Auto you count your children and then lay out and I'm not surei f that's definite
# [18:34] * Quits: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [18:34] * smfr_ is now known as smfr
# [18:35] <dael> rossen: Did we resolve that flex-basis is a use time value and defined as used not computed
# [18:35] <dbaron> s/prefer IE/prefers the Firefox\/IE behavior/
# [18:35] <dael> rossen: I think about a month ago we decided that flex-basis was a use value, not computed. It assumes that allt he flex items are already measured to their flexability and then we have a use size we can resolve % against
# [18:35] <dael> TabAtkins: Hmm.
# [18:35] <dael> TabAtkins: You may be right on that.
# [18:35] <dael> TabAtkins: Okay. I need to go and research that.
# [18:36] <dael> TabAtkins: I've been avoiding the thread, but I think I need ot load flex into my brain.
# [18:36] <dael> TabAtkins: Now that I have a grasp on the discussion, let's go back to the thread and sort out how our previous resolutions deal with this. I think I can be convinced Chrome is a bug with some or all of these.
# [18:37] <dael> rossen: I'm fine with that.
# [18:37] <dael> TabAtkins: Cool.
# [18:37] * TabAtkins "Chrome is a bug" lol
# [18:37] <fantasai> Tab, I don't think used vs. computed value of flex-basis is a relevant thing here
# [18:37] <dael> Topic: background-blend on the root element
# [18:37] <dael> TabAtkins: Is cabanier around?
# [18:38] <dael> cabanier: So it looks like there was feedback from Alan this morning. I'm not sure what's supposed to be happening, there's different Firefox and WebKit behaviour
# [18:38] <dael> cabanier: Firefox pulls up the background layer and draws. Webkit draws an external layer in white.
# [18:38] <dael> cabanier: now that we expect these layers to be in order, it's different. It's possible for others to work around it, but it's a bit wierd.
# [18:39] * ChrisL :) :) go Tab
# [18:39] * tantek hesitates to say anything about compositing from now on.
# [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: I completely agree with your q on the thread. We should say the root element blends and then transposes. It's odd that the final background is white and that's an odd detail we shouldn't expose
# [18:39] <dael> dbaron: I don't think the final is white in iFrames.
# [18:40] <dael> cabanier: It seems it's only the root elements. There's something going on
# [18:40] <dbaron> s/iFrames/iframes, in some cases/
# [18:40] <dael> TabAtkins: It may be an impl bug.
# [18:40] <dael> cabanier: Firefox sometimes draws differently. That's a bug. Should it be fixed in blending or color?
# [18:40] <dael> cabanier: We need to define that the root element is different.
# [18:40] <dael> krit: Does it apply to SVG as wel?
# [18:41] <dael> cabanier: I think it would apply there, I haven't tried it because there isn't blending in SVG
# [18:41] <dael> TabAtkins: If you're doing background blending in SVG you wouldn't sure white, yuo'd do transparent.
# [18:41] <dael> TabAtkins: Likely we want to do it in colors so that if we want anything that goes uses root it blends against hte transparent and untouchable background
# [18:42] <dael> TabAtkins: The backdrop color if untouchable and you can't do anything with it except map your page.
# [18:42] <dael> cabanier: I think that's the behaviour most would expect.
# [18:42] <dael> plinss: I think that's correct. I don't want to bake an opaque background into the platform.
# [18:43] <dael> cabanier: That CSS Colors needs to define this
# [18:43] <dael> TabAtkins: That whatever browsers do for the backdrop, the page maps against that.
# [18:43] <dael> TabAtkins: I'll wordsmith.
# [18:43] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jun/0280.html
# [18:43] <dael> RESOLVED: Solve as Rik requests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jun/0280.html
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# [18:44] <TabAtkins> s/maps/mattes/g
# [18:44] <dael> plinss: I think that's it. WE had Animations issues from sylvain, but he sent his regrets.
# [18:44] <dael> plinss: Anything else?
# [18:44] <dael> plinss: Talk to everyone next week
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# [18:45] * dbaron wonders if the Zakim bot disappeared or crashed
# [18:45] <tantek> Zakim, are you here?
# [18:45] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, tantek.
# [18:46] <ChrisL> turing test failed, zakim
# [18:46] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:46] * Zakim sees on the phone: dael, krit, glenn, [Microsoft], ??P30, BrianKardell, astearns_, SteveZ, TabAtkins, dauwhe, smfr, plinss, ??P3, dbaron, cabanier, SimonSapin, koji, Plh (muted),
# [18:46] * Zakim ... hober, MaRakow, tantek (muted), fantasai, ChrisL
# [18:46] * Zakim [Microsoft] has gregwhitworth
# [18:46] <Rossen_> he is here but he is not with us
# [18:46] * dbaron hung up a minute ago
# [18:46] <tantek> lol so did I
# [18:46] <tantek> Zakim, disconnect tantek
# [18:46] <Zakim> tantek is being disconnected
# [18:47] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:47] * Zakim sees on the phone: dael, krit, glenn, [Microsoft], ??P30, BrianKardell, astearns_, SteveZ, TabAtkins, dauwhe, smfr, plinss, ??P3, dbaron, cabanier, SimonSapin, koji, Plh (muted),
# [18:47] * Zakim ... hober, MaRakow, tantek (muted), fantasai, ChrisL
# [18:47] * Zakim [Microsoft] has gregwhitworth
# [18:47] * astearns_ zakim can now listen in even after you hang up the phone
# [18:47] * astearns_ is now known as astearns
# [18:47] <tantek> new Zakim feature for the NSA
# [18:47] * ChrisL "for security"
# [18:47] <tantek> "for transparency"
# [18:48] <ChrisL> “War is peace.
# [18:48] <ChrisL> Freedom is slavery.
# [18:48] <ChrisL> Ignorance is strength.”
# [18:48] <plinss> actually, it looks like zakim thinks there are two css meetings, one where everyone hung up, the other where everyone is still around: https://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html
# [18:49] <ChrisL> omg I bet the alternate meeting was solved the break issue. Causing a bifurcation of the space time continuum
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# [18:55] <fantasai> alright, bedtime!
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# Session Close: Thu Jun 26 00:00:00 2014

The end :)