/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-12-02 / end

Options:

# Session Start: Wed Dec 02 00:00:00 2015
# Session Ident: #css
# [00:00] <cbiesinger> I dislike the inconsistency with flex items...
# [00:00] * Joins: sam (osamu@public.cloak)
# [00:00] <TabAtkins> Absposes don't have consistency with the surrounding context in any other layout mode, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
# [00:01] <TabAtkins> (Grid has the structure to allow them to hook into it somewhat, but Flexbox doesn't - it's got the same amount of structure as Block.)
# [00:01] <cbiesinger> TabAtkins: sure, but then why have justify-self/align-self affect the static position at all?
# [00:02] <TabAtkins> We don't have to, sure. Static pos computation is up to the parent's layout mode.
# [00:02] <TabAtkins> And *once Align is implemented*, we don't need it, because you can just do *non*-static positioning to get it centered or what-have-you.
# [00:03] <TabAtkins> Only reason to keep the staticpos rules now are because it gives the functionality that Align will offer when eventually implemented.
# [00:03] <TabAtkins> Which isn't a good reason.
# [00:03] <fantasai> I think the most important part of all this to keep is the fact that abspos don't affect layout of the in-flow contents.
# [00:03] <TabAtkins> That's handled separately, and not part of this discussion tho.
# [00:04] <fantasai> Not only is that annoying IMHO, there were a *lot* of duplicates against that bug complaining about the placeholder's affect on justification.
# [00:04] <TabAtkins> (That's just "placeholders aren't real".)
# [00:04] <TabAtkins> (Instead they're just a spec abstraction for computing staticpos in Block.)
# [00:04] <fantasai> But wrt how static position is computed... I don't think it matters terribly much, so long as we have interop
# [00:04] <TabAtkins> Yeah same.
# [00:05] <fantasai> Though I think MSFT's original proposal of having the top left corner of the abspos follow the alignment props
# [00:05] <fantasai> is very weird
# [00:05] <fantasai> and I don't like it. :)
# [00:05] <cbiesinger> that would be way easier to implement :) but yes, weird results...
# [00:05] <fantasai> The other option we were contemplating was always having the static position be the start start corner
# [00:05] <fantasai> of the flex container
# [00:06] <fantasai> i.e. make the static position rectangle the entire flex container
# [00:06] <cbiesinger> yes, that would also be very easy to implement
# [00:06] <TabAtkins> Yeah, the only two reasonable options imo are (a) staticpos and realpos are the same (pay attention to align/justify-self only), or (b) staticpos is start/start corner.
# [00:06] <cbiesinger> but certainly, allowing justify-self: center; to work without setting left/right is more convenient
# [00:07] <cbiesinger> I don't understand your a)?
# [00:09] <TabAtkins> a) is what you just said (allow justify-self:center to work without setting left/right)
# [00:09] <TabAtkins> I made up a new word "realpos".
# [00:09] <TabAtkins> For the real position.
# [00:09] <fantasai> ????
# [00:09] <TabAtkins> Non-static, that is.
# [00:09] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [00:09] <TabAtkins> I was tired of typing "non-static position"
# [00:10] <fantasai> ...
# [00:12] <cbiesinger> ah I see
# [00:13] <cbiesinger> (separately, I wonder if people will understand the behavior of css-align for a non-flexbox abspos item - that they have to set left/right to be able to center)
# [00:15] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
# [00:17] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [00:19] <TabAtkins> cbiesinger: We'd have made it work everywhere if we could, but for compat reasons it's not feasible.
# [00:19] <fantasai> well, actually it kindof is
# [00:19] <fantasai> the initial value *is* auto
# [00:20] <fantasai> we could make it mean "do alignment in my parent"
# [00:20] * fantasai thinks applying alignment to abspos is the most complicated part of the spec
# [00:22] <fantasai> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-flexbox/#intrinsic-sizes
# [00:22] <fantasai> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-flexbox/issues-lc-20150514#issue-12
# [00:24] <cbiesinger> At any rate - I agree with tab's option (a) as resolution
# [00:25] * Joins: lajava (~javi@public.cloak)
# [00:27] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
# [00:39] <fantasai> TabAtkins: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A%20body%20{%20width%3A%20.5em%3B%20border%3A%20solid%20red%3B%20}%0A%20div%20{%20display%3A%20flex%3B%20float%3A%20left%3B%20flex-flow%3A%20column%3B%20border%3A%20solid%3B%20align-items%3A%20center%3B%20}%0A%20p%20{%20background%3A%20orange%3B%20margin%3A%200%3B%20}%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Cdiv%3E%0A%20%20%3Cp%3Eabcde%0A%20%20%3Cp%3EA%20A%20A%20A%20A%0A%[CUT]
# [00:40] <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=3772
# [00:41] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [00:44] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
# [00:54] <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A%20body%20{%20width%3A%20.5em%3B%20border%3A%20solid%20red%3B%20}%0A%20div%20{%20display%3A%20flex%3B%20height%3A%2010em%3B%20float%3A%20left%3B%20flex-flow%3A%20column%20wrap%3B%20border%3A%20solid%3B%20align-items%3A%20center%3B%20}%0A%20p%20{%20background%3A%20orange%3B%20margin%3A%200%3B%20border%3A%20solid%20}%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Cdiv%3E%0A%20%20%3Cp%3Eabcd[CUT]
# [00:54] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [00:57] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [01:00] <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A%20body%20{%20width%3A%20.5em%3B%20border%3A%20solid%20red%3B%20}%0A%20div%20{%20display%3A%20flex%3B%20height%3A%2010em%3B%20float%3A%20left%3B%20flex-flow%3A%20column%20wrap%3B%20border%3A%20solid%3B%20align-items%3A%20center%3B%20}%0A%20p%20{%20background%3A%20orange%3B%20margin%3A%200%3B%20border%3A%20solid%20}%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Cdiv%3E%0A%20%20%3Cp%3Eabcd[CUT]
# [01:02] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
# [01:05] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
# [01:10] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [01:12] <cbiesinger> I feel like this is a backchannel to a discussion going on elsewhere :p
# [01:12] <fantasai> Yeah, Tab and I are trading testcases
# [01:13] * Joins: sam_ (osamu@public.cloak)
# [01:13] <fantasai> trying to figure out what the shrinkwrapped size of a multiline column flex container is
# [01:13] <fantasai> It's a lot of weird.
# [01:13] <fantasai> A *lot* of weird
# [01:13] * Quits: lajava (~javi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [01:17] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [01:17] * Quits: sam (osamu@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [01:21] <cbiesinger> yeah let me know once you find out coz I'd love to know :p
# [01:21] <cbiesinger> it's probably easier with an explicit max-height/height
# [01:21] <cbiesinger> (haven't looked at the testcases)
# [01:23] * Joins: sam (osamu@public.cloak)
# [01:25] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [01:27] * Quits: sam (osamu@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [01:29] * Quits: sam_ (osamu@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [01:33] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [01:44] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
# [01:49] <cbiesinger> fantasai: responded
# [01:51] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
# [01:52] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [01:55] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
# [01:59] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
# [02:00] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [02:00] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [02:11] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [02:15] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [02:16] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@public.cloak)
# [02:16] <TabAtkins> fantasai: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Sep/0297.html
# [02:18] <cbiesinger> TabAtkins: note my last response
# [02:18] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [02:21] <TabAtkins> fantasai:
# [02:21] <TabAtkins> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20class%3Dcontainer%3E%0A%20%3Cdiv%20class%3Done%3Efoo%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A%20%3Cdiv%20class%3Dtwo%3Ebar%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A.container%20%7B%20max-height%3A%2020px%3B%20%7D%0A.one%20%7B%20height%3A%2050%25%3B%20%7D%0A.two%20%7B%20height%3A%2050px%3B%20%7D%
# [02:21] <TabAtkins> 0Adiv%20%7B%20padding%3A%202px%3B%20margin%3A%202px%3B%20background%3A%20rgba(0%2C0%2C0%2C.2)%3B%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E
# [02:22] * Joins: sam (osamu@public.cloak)
# [02:29] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
# [02:36] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
# [02:38] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
# [03:11] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
# [03:11] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [03:12] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [03:19] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [03:29] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
# [03:47] * Quits: metasansana (~metasansana@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
# [03:48] * Quits: fwtnb (~fwtnb@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [04:01] * Joins: shepazu_ (schepers@public.cloak)
# [04:05] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [04:06] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [04:12] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [04:20] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [04:39] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
# [04:56] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
# [04:59] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [05:04] * Quits: myles (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [05:13] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [05:15] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
# [05:21] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [05:37] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
# [05:41] * Quits: rbyers (~sid31141@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [05:41] * Joins: rbyers (~sid31141@public.cloak)
# [05:42] * Quits: Teoli___ (~sid23960@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [05:42] * Joins: Teoli___ (~sid23960@public.cloak)
# [06:14] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [06:14] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [06:21] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [06:22] * Quits: decadance (~decadance@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [06:34] * Joins: decadance (~decadance@public.cloak)
# [06:56] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
# [07:07] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
# [07:15] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [07:22] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [08:03] * Quits: sam (osamu@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [08:09] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [08:31] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
# [08:37] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [08:37] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [08:38] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [08:38] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [08:40] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
# [08:45] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [08:51] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [08:54] * Joins: rego (~rego@public.cloak)
# [09:01] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
# [09:13] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [09:38] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [09:39] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [09:47] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [11:01] * Joins: sam (osamu@public.cloak)
# [11:07] * Disconnected
# [11:49] * Attempting to rejoin channel #css
# [11:49] * Rejoined channel #css
# [11:49] * Topic is '2015-11-25 conference call cancelled. https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2015OctDec/0124.html'
# [11:49] * Set by tantek on Wed Nov 25 18:02:43
# [11:50] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [11:57] * Quits: fwtnb (~fwtnb@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [12:04] * Quits: sam (osamu@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [12:46] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
# [13:06] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
# [13:43] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [13:51] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [14:00] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
# [14:57] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [14:59] * nvdbleek steven and all, sorry have to send regrets, again, debugging a production problem
# [15:01] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
# [15:21] * Joins: lajava (~javi@public.cloak)
# [15:22] * Quits: lajava (~javi@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
# [15:28] * Joins: fwtnb (~fwtnb@public.cloak)
# [15:31] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [15:34] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [15:44] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [15:47] * Quits: fwtnb (~fwtnb@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [15:52] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [16:20] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [16:20] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [16:20] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [16:35] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [16:36] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [16:38] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [16:39] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [16:40] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [16:46] * Joins: fwtnb (~fwtnb@public.cloak)
# [17:00] * shepazu_ is now known as shepazu
# [17:20] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
# [17:20] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
# [17:21] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
# [17:27] * Joins: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak)
# [17:28] * glazou changes topic to '2015-11-25 conference call https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Dec/0022.html'
# [17:28] * glazou changes topic to '2015-12-02 conference call https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Dec/0022.html'
# [17:31] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
# [17:49] * Joins: dael (~dael@public.cloak)
# [17:56] <TabAtkins> I'll be a few minutes late, had to catch a later bus than I wanted.
# [17:58] <dael> ScribeNick: dael
# [17:58] <glazou> TabAtkins: issues on TypedOM files on GH as requested
# [17:58] <TabAtkins> Yup, thank you. ^_^
# [17:58] <antonp> Present+
# [17:58] <glazou> Present+ glazou
# [17:58] <dael> Present+ dael
# [17:58] <antonp> Present+ antonp
# [17:58] <TabAtkins> present+ tabatkins
# [17:59] <astearns> TabAtkins: who was complaining about six extra characters, and what's happened to "less-typing-trumps-everything-Tab"?
# [17:59] * Joins: tgraham (~user@public.cloak)
# [17:59] <astearns> present+ astearns
# [17:59] <TabAtkins> Someone asking for a new image-resolution keyword meaning "map 1 image pixel to 1 hardware pixel".
# [17:59] * Joins: alex_antennahouse (~605be456@public.cloak)
# [17:59] <glazou> astearns: when do you arrive in Paris?
# [17:59] <astearns> early morning Thurs
# [17:59] <TabAtkins> When the existing working solution is "image-resolution 999dppx snap;"
# [18:00] <glazou> ok
# [18:00] * Joins: myles (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [18:00] <TabAtkins> As long as your screen is less than 999x resolution, that does exactly what's requested. ^_^
# [18:00] * Joins: antenna (~antenna@public.cloak)
# [18:00] <TabAtkins> "existing" and "working" in quotes, obviously, pending implementations.
# [18:00] <glazou> astearns: I'll see you at the restaurant thursday evening
# [18:01] <tgraham> present+ tgraham
# [18:01] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
# [18:01] <astearns> that's one of the cases where if we see 999dppx used everywhere, we might come up with a shorter alternative (but not before we see data)
# [18:01] <antenna> present +antenna
# [18:01] <TabAtkins> Less typing doesn't trump everything, but it is important. But niche use-cases that are typed only once or twice in a stylesheet using them is fine.
# [18:01] <TabAtkins> astearns: Yeah, exactly.
# [18:01] * Joins: gregdavis (~udavig4@public.cloak)
# [18:01] * Joins: Rossen_web (~Rossen_web@public.cloak)
# [18:01] * dauwhe Call-in%20User_2 would be a good IRC nick
# [18:01] <smfr> present+ smfr
# [18:02] <gregdavis> present+ gregdavis
# [18:02] <Rossen_web> Present+ Rossen_web
# [18:02] <glazou> TabAtkins: what is "Novembercation" btw ?
# [18:02] <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
# [18:02] <TabAtkins> glazou: It was me taking November off.
# [18:02] <glazou> :)
# [18:02] <Bert> present+
# [18:02] * Joins: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak)
# [18:02] <TabAtkins> Between a conf, Thanksgiving, and the favorable positioning of weekends that month, it only cost me 14 vacation days.
# [18:03] * glazou wants a 2016cation
# [18:03] <TabAtkins> Because web confs are *technically* work days. ^_^
# [18:03] <plinss> present+
# [18:03] * Joins: jihye (~jihye@public.cloak)
# [18:03] * Joins: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
# [18:04] <myles> present+
# [18:04] <Florian> present+ Florian
# [18:04] <dael> Rossen_web: Good morning. Let's get going.
# [18:04] <MaRakow> present+ MaRakow
# [18:04] <dael> Rossen_web: Do we have any additional agenda items anyone wants to add?
# [18:05] <dael> Topic: Org. dev meetup at Sydney
# [18:05] <dael> Rossen_web: I saw that there was some chata bout it on the private list. TabAtkins was mentioned doing a talk on Houdini, Bert asked about CSS. Do we have a plan?
# [18:05] <dael> Bert: No plan. I think it got worse because TabAtkins isn't coming. So we need somebody for houdini.
# [18:05] <dael> Rossen_web: I can do that, yes.
# [18:05] * glazou Tab confirmed on w3c-css-wg
# [18:06] <dael> Rossen_web: TabAtkins are you not coming to Sydney?
# [18:06] * TabAtkins Whoops, yeah, what Bert said.
# [18:06] <jihye> present+ Jihye Hong
# [18:06] * TabAtkins read your email, Rossen_web ^_^
# [18:06] <dael> Rossen_web: We'll miss you.
# [18:06] <fantasai> present+ fantasai
# [18:06] * TabAtkins 💕💕💕
# [18:06] <dael> Bert: So Rossen_web would be good for Houdini. We can push some topics we want to push, select what we want to talk about with the devs. If people have ideas for speakers or topics let's hear them.
# [18:07] <astearns> dotCSS
# [18:07] * glazou someone is echoing
# [18:07] * Joins: bkardell_ (~uid10373@public.cloak)
# [18:07] <dael> Rossen_web: astearns is talking about CSS conf I think...what was it next week?
# [18:07] <dael> astearns: Getting some more participation in CSSWG and Houdini
# [18:07] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
# [18:07] * Joins: vollick (~vollick@public.cloak)
# [18:07] * glazou will speak there too, dotCSS on this friday in Paris
# [18:07] <astearns> yes
# [18:07] * TabAtkins Rossen_web I have a slide deck you can build from if you want. ^_^
# [18:07] <dael> Rossen_web: It was hard to hear, but you said testing and contributing to CSSWG?
# [18:07] <dael> Rossen_web: Okay, great.
# [18:08] <dael> Rossen_web: So if we have nothing else, astearns can reheash that topic. Or we can do different. Are there any members that express willingness to talk at that dev meetup?
# [18:08] <astearns> happy to jump on stage and rehash
# [18:08] * Joins: arybka (~arybka@public.cloak)
# [18:08] <dael> fantasai: IN Sydney?
# [18:08] <bkardell_> present +bkardell_
# [18:08] <dael> Rossen_web: Yes.
# [18:08] <dael> fantasai: I can do a best practices thing.
# [18:08] <dael> Rossen_web: Great.
# [18:08] <dael> Rossen_web: Who is hosting this?
# [18:08] * bkardell_ is having network issues affecting my ability to webex atm
# [18:08] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
# [18:09] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
# [18:09] * TabAtkins http://www.xanthir.com/talks/2015-11-11/ is the 20m talk on Houdini I gave at SassConf last month.
# [18:09] * glazou ChrisL: lot of noise in your background
# [18:09] * bradk can hear someone eating breakfast
# [18:09] * dauwhe ChrisL, are you sharpening a sword?
# [18:09] <dael> Bert: Org mainly by Shane either at the Google place or at a nearby place. We're expecting 30-60 people. Local org is taken care of. My question is what do we want to talk about while we're there. That was the question for today. The rest is taken care of by Shane
# [18:09] <dael> ??: Is there a way to determine what level of developer we're getting?
# [18:09] <dael> Bert: Professional webdev.
# [18:09] <glazou> s/??/greg
# [18:10] <dael> hober: Ever sense modulaization devs level independantly. We'll have a mix.
# [18:10] * astearns :)
# [18:10] <dael> Bert: Yes, but we can assume they know quite a bit about CSS. Not everything we go but CSS in general yes.
# [18:10] <astearns> s/sense/since/
# [18:10] <fantasai> s/go/do
# [18:10] * astearns must have that line minuted correctly
# [18:10] <dael> Rossen_web: I'm still not hearing any takers becides fantasai doing a process talk. It would be good to have at least one or two.
# [18:10] <dael> fantasai: I said best practices.
# [18:10] <dael> Rossen_web: Yes, do that.
# [18:11] <dael> Rossen_web: Do we have anyone that wants to take the opportunity to talk about the more recent stuff or the things coming in? It would be good to have something more inspiring than come help us.
# [18:11] <dael> Rossen_web: I'll take that as a weak yes.
# [18:11] * glazou we can move to « hey come and feed us » ?
# [18:12] * Joins: AH_Miller (~AH_Miller@public.cloak)
# [18:12] * dauwhe a talk on "how to be nice to spec editors"
# [18:12] <dael> gregwhitworth: Can we do this on the list? I'm open to talking, but I'd like to figure out what would be beneficial. There's lots of buzz about round-display. I think we can find speakers, but it would be cool to figure out the subjects and then see who is best to speak to them. Is that alright?
# [18:12] <dbaron> Present+ dbaron
# [18:12] * glazou dauwhe MOJITOS
# [18:12] <dael> Rossen_web: That's true, but speakers come with their topics. But for example if you want to talk about grid and flexbox, that is pretty relevent and recent from a webdev POV.
# [18:13] <dael> gregwhitworth: I'm game, yeah.
# [18:13] <dael> Rossen_web: bert did you have anything in mind to talk about yourself?
# [18:13] <vollick> present +vollick
# [18:13] * TabAtkins People *love* hearing about Grid and Flexbox. Always blow people's minds every talk.
# [18:13] <dael> Bert: No, I haven't thought about that. Maybe I'll come up with something, but not at the moment.
# [18:14] <dael> Rossen_web: Let's leave it here. It sounds like we will have topics that will fill time. Between Houdini and fantasai and gregwhitworth's topics we'll have things. I'm also curious as to if SVG will join. That would take more time. I'll touch base with Shane.
# [18:14] <Rossen_web> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Nov/0277.html
# [18:14] <dael> Topic: round diplay- animating 2d rotation transform function for polar coordinates
# [18:14] <dael> jihye: We sent the extension of the 2d rotation as added to round display.
# [18:14] <jihye> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-round-display/#2d-rotation-transform-function
# [18:15] <dael> jihye: Keyword values polar-angle and polar-angle-reverse can be the value for the rotate function. There was discussion about animating this function. When polar angle property is inside an animation and 2d rotation transform function is given polar-angle the transform changes b/ animation
# [18:15] * glazou wishes all new members in this WG were fair players like LG ; super impressed again
# [18:16] <dael> jihye: Because polar-angle and -reverse are computed value of polar-angle prop the element revolves around the origin and the anchor point of the element.
# [18:16] <dael> jihye: It is dificult to design the element's behavior where there is animation forthe extended 2d transform. There can be a situation where polar-angle prop and the function are animated.
# [18:16] <smfr> q+
# [18:16] * Zakim sees smfr on the speaker queue
# [18:16] <dael> jihye: When the animation fo the function is defined with polar-angle or -reverse it means animating polar-angle porp is used for an animation.
# [18:17] <dael> jihye: It is possible, but I think it's wierd.
# [18:17] <Rossen_web> q
# [18:17] * Joins: tmichel (tmichel@public.cloak)
# [18:17] <dael> jihye: I think if you want to use the function witht he keyword value for an animation there should be a condition of not animating the polar-angle property. With that contition it's animated with computed value. Does this make sense
# [18:17] <smfr> transform: translateX(100px) rotate(polar-angle);
# [18:17] <dael> smfr: I have a question, image you have a transofrm that looks like:
# [18:18] <hober> s/Ever sense/Since/
# [18:18] <dael> smfr: It has a translate and than polar-angle. Is the expectation that the angle is computed after the translation? Does polar-angle get computed after other transforms?
# [18:18] <dael> fantasai: It's just a value of the polar-angle, it's not dependant on position.
# [18:18] <dael> smfr: I thought there was a value that computed relative to the origin of the containing box.
# [18:19] <tmichel> present+ tmichel
# [18:19] <hober> present+ hober
# [18:19] <dael> fantasai: no. it ends up working like that if you're doing a clock-face type layout, but if you position it using another property than polar-positioning, we would still take the value of the polar-angle.
# [18:19] <dael> smfr: So if there's a transform does it effec thte value?
# [18:20] <dael> fantasai: No, just like margins or it being a flex box don't. It's just the value of the polar-angle property. It's a good point and we should make sure it's clear in the spec.
# [18:20] <Rossen_web> q?
# [18:20] * Zakim sees smfr on the speaker queue
# [18:20] <dael> myles: Am I right that the proposal is to make polar-angle not animatable?
# [18:20] <dael> fantasai: It should be.
# [18:20] <dael> myles: Then I'm confused.
# [18:21] <dbaron> So when determining the computed value of 'transform', does polar-angle turn into an angle, or remain as a keyword?
# [18:21] <dael> jihye: I think polar-angle is animatable and when 2d rotation transform with polar-angle or -reverse we have to have a condition that not using polar-angle as animation. Is it possible to have this kind of limitation?
# [18:21] <smfr> q-
# [18:21] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
# [18:21] <dael> dbaron: One thing I don't understand is if when you fiugre out the computed value of transform, does polar-angle turn into an angle or stay a keyword
# [18:21] <dael> fantasai: That's the fundimental question
# [18:21] <dael> jihye: I think computed value.
# [18:22] <dael> Rossen_web: what do you mean computed vale? Is it an angle or a keyword? Both could be computed
# [18:22] <dael> jihye: An angle, not a keyword
# [18:22] <dael> myles: So it's well defined to have animations on both properties. The element will just look like it's swimming when you animate.
# [18:22] <dbaron> s/So it's/So if that's true it's/
# [18:22] <bradk> Swimming?
# [18:23] <dael> myles: When I brought this up a couple weeks ago, I wasn't sure if we've had anything where one animation depends on the result of another one.
# [18:23] <dael> fantasai: Same situation as border color.
# [18:23] <dael> myles: If there's precident, it sounds fine.
# [18:23] <dbaron> s/precident/precedent/
# [18:23] <dael> Rossen_web: Okay. So does that sound like a good outcome?
# [18:23] <myles> rossen: who is "you"
# [18:24] <dael> Rossen_web: For you, jihye?
# [18:24] <dael> jihye: Is it okay that polar-angle property is animatable and the function is used in animation? Both are okay?
# [18:24] <bradk> Yes
# [18:25] <dael> dbaron: I think it is. I think one other thing is that the animation behavior basically can be derrived from what the computed value is, essentially. It maybe is worth thinking more about which computed value and animation behavior you want. That's not clear to me.
# [18:25] <dael> dbaron: In other words, the decision about if polar angle turns into an angle or is a keyword inthe computed value it determines what the animation is.
# [18:26] <dael> fantasai: If it stays as a keyword you can't animate between polar-angle and any other angle. If it turns into a value at computed value time then you can animate between polar-angle and a different angle. But if you animate polar-angle and the rotation, the rotation animation will not track the changes in polar-angle
# [18:26] <fantasai> s/any other angle/, but as polar-angle animates, the rotation will also animate/
# [18:26] <dael> Florian: I think we need to look at a number of examples that would try to do this and pick what makes sense. In theory it could be both, but it depends in practice what people what.
# [18:27] <dael> Rossen_web: jihye do you have examples or preference for one or the other? Or are you looking for feedback?
# [18:27] <dael> jihye: Maybe I can...I will write down the examples/use case in mailing list and discussion can continue later.
# [18:28] <dael> Rossen_web: That sounds fair. It would be good to see examples for that. I'm also having a hard time to wrap my head around which makes more sense.
# [18:28] <dael> Rossen_web: Did youw ant to move on?
# [18:28] <dael> jihye: Let's move on
# [18:28] <Rossen_web> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Nov/0253.html
# [18:28] <dael> Topic: using polar positioning as part of abspos
# [18:29] <dael> jihye: Whent he element is positioned with polar-coordinates, the position property has to be polar. But there had been an opinion for using polar positioning as part of abspos.
# [18:30] <dael> jihye: bradk suggested instead of having position position, poar distance activates polar positioning. When the element is abspos it can have top right etc. combine with polar positioning. I think it's unreasonable because top, right, bottom, left indicates how far the padding edge is from the containing block's edge in abspos.
# [18:30] <dael> jihye: With top right bottom left it is postioned based on contiaing block edge. Polar-distance and -angle are relative to polar coordinates. So they cannot combine, I think.
# [18:30] <ChrisL> q+
# [18:30] * Zakim sees ChrisL on the speaker queue
# [18:31] <dael> Florian: They could if we gave a different meaning to top, bottom, left right when polar positioning is activated.
# [18:31] <bradk> I don't think my microphone is working
# [18:31] <dael> ChrisL: You could combine, but it's awk. You'd have to treat polar-positioning as a transform and change your coordinate system and push around matrixes. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it's possible.
# [18:32] * Joins: Rossen_web_ (~Rossen_web@public.cloak)
# [18:32] <dael> fantasai: Or have the offsets represent changes to the contianing block area so it would change the meaning of 100%
# [18:32] <dael> ChrisL: That's true.
# [18:32] <dael> fantasai: We might need an initial value for polar-disance. You could have abspos change what the offset is and if you polar position it's in that new box. Similar to grid layout.
# [18:33] <dael> Florian: Wouldn't that be super counter-intutive? If you put 10px left it would move it by 5px.
# [18:33] <dael> fantasai: It looks like bradk mic is broken. We may want ot revisit when he can participate.
# [18:34] <bradk> Yes. I don't understand the arguments against, which were not on the mailing list.
# [18:34] <dael> Florian: To add a point, one aspect I found itneresting in that proposal is that it could also work with relative positioning. Because as currently prop. position polar is a kind of abspos. If we do something along bradk proposal it would work in other positioning modes.
# [18:35] <dael> jihye: I have a question for bradk. He suggested center property, but I don't think that is different from polar-origin property and the center property he suggested. Can I get an answer to that?
# [18:35] <bradk> Center prop would be usable in other situations
# [18:35] * Quits: Rossen_web (~Rossen_web@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [18:35] <dael> Rossen_web: Since bradk can't talk without a mic, we can wait to see if he can type a reply.
# [18:35] <dael> Rossen_away: Or we can move the topic to the ML
# [18:35] <bradk> Could take other percentage values
# [18:36] <bradk> Could be center-x and center-y also
# [18:36] <dael> jihye: Yeah. The discussion should be in the ML. It's better there, I think.
# [18:36] <dael> Rossen_away: Let's pause on this for now and move it to the ML.
# [18:36] <bradk> Please present all arguments again in ML
# [18:36] <bradk> Against
# [18:36] <dael> Topc: Dealing with pull request pile ups in our test repo
# [18:37] <Florian> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-test/pulls
# [18:37] <dael> Rossen_away: Florian brought this up as a frustration and it's a good topic for us to bring up for discussion and viability. As stands the test repo pull requests are piled up a bit. There's a few questions. How and who should deal with this?
# [18:37] <dael> Rossen_away: The presence of volunteers to deal with this. And in the future how to move forward so there's more test coverage in the repo.
# [18:38] <dael> Florian: I don't know if everyone has opened the link, but there's 28 pull requests, most of which are months old. Only 6 are mine.
# [18:38] <dael> Florian: It's not nec. all things get stuck, but depending on which spec and area, some topics have a hard time getting review and that's bad.
# [18:38] <dael> Rossen_away: So that is the problem.
# [18:38] <dael> Rossen_away: Do you have a proposed way forward?
# [18:39] <dael> Florian: one would be, since now everything is piled up, but once that's done go through every spec effected by a pull request ask who feels responsible and if yes why it didn't happen and if no who is responsible for that.
# [18:39] <dael> Rossen_away: Okay. So I'm not hearing anyone...
# [18:39] <dael> Florian: Not hearing anyone rush to the rescue.
# [18:40] <dael> Rossen_away: No and historically editors are willing to jump on test coverage, but specs are different in their velocity of being worked on. If editors aren't paying attention to one area I can see how it piles up.
# [18:41] <dael> Florian: I thinkt he problem is worse than thte queue. When I have something like a few test cases submitted and waiting, I don't submit more, and I don't think I'm alone in that. So there's tests in people's head or computer because something isn't moving.
# [18:41] <dael> Rossen_away: That's a fair point. Especially with TTWF events where we try and get attention. If the response from our side is silence and sitting on reviews, it's going to discourage.
# [18:42] <dael> Rossen_away: I'm not going to push for immediate action or having to have a process in place, but I wanted to bring this on everyone's radar for awareness. If people have ideas it would be great to discuss those on the list. We can revist in week or two
# [18:42] <dael> Rossen_away: We'll have to make more decisions with no movement.
# [18:42] <dael> fantasai: We in the WG it's largely people in a PM role. We have dev on the list, but we don't have QA people across the WG.
# [18:43] <dael> fantasai: QA people do their own thing. Maybe we create a community there and maybe have them talk about how to make their jobs easier in a community. But we don't have that now. Jeffery s. is the only QA person we have now and that's new. The people working on testing need to get involved.
# [18:44] <dael> Florian: Producing the test suite is in the charter of this group. People int he group should care.
# [18:44] * glazou forever...
# [18:44] <dael> fantasai: But this has been a problem for how many years? Whatever we have in terms of structure isn't working.
# [18:44] <dael> Florian: I think what you're suggesting would help. but also name who is in charge of test suite.
# [18:44] <dbaron> Didn't we do that before?
# [18:44] <dael> ChrisL: I think that's a good idea.
# [18:45] <dael> fantasai: I'd like that. We've tried and it varies on the person named. I think we should do that and have a strong ownership model of the tests. Then the question is who will work on tests and who cares.
# [18:45] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
# [18:45] <dael> Florian: I'm willing to review tests submitted against specs, but can't review my own.
# [18:45] <dael> Florian: Naming isn't just ownershipt, but visibility for when someone isn't doing it we know we need someone else.
# [18:46] <fantasai> We don't have sufficient people to replace people who aren't doing their job.
# [18:46] <dael> Rossen_away: Submitting tests shouldn't be different than code changes. You write code, submit it, and someone reviews your changes. Testing shouldn't be different, it isn't on our end.
# [18:46] * astearns can't publish a new draft until the spec's test review queue is cleared...
# [18:46] <dael> Rossen_away: Having people that are reviewers for an area, spec editor or not, has to be determined. In the end someone has to own the test side of something like, say, flexbox. When tests come that person should be expected to review.
# [18:47] <dael> Rossen_away: There there is a thing where someone dumps hundreds of tests and that's a bottleneck.
# [18:47] <dael> Florian: That's okay. If that happens it needs to clear eventually.
# [18:47] <dael> Florian: I think we need two people for each area since the person in charge couldn't submit tests themselves.
# [18:47] <dbaron> I tend to think tests shouldn't have as high a standard of review as code; there are many categories of tests where mistakes will be caught as a result of seeing failures and saying "but that behavior is correct"
# [18:47] <dael> Rossen_away: Certainly.
# [18:47] <astearns> +1 to dbaron's comment
# [18:48] <dael> Florian: So do we name people today? prob not. The other question is do we go through specs in the queue today and see if people will react.
# [18:48] <dael> Rossen_away: I don't think we could get anywhere actionable today. We have 13 minutes and more topics. We brought awareness. It would be good for use to discuss this on the ML and move forward both witht he current queue and get the process forward for the future.
# [18:49] <dael> Rossen_away: Let's stop here and Florian if you want to ping people for your areas I would start witht he spec editor and if you happen to be the spec editor ping someone else and see if they can help. Otherwise ping me.
# [18:49] <dael> Florian: I've done that already.
# [18:49] * fantasai notes that we don't seem to have anyone in charge of testing overall, either
# [18:49] <dael> Rossen_away: I see. We have a problem and as fantasai pointed out it's not new.
# [18:49] <dael> Topic: Progress report on snap points
# [18:49] <dbaron> Not sure the will-change ones need group discussion rather than just an editor response.
# [18:50] <dael> Rossen_away: It's a status update we're looking for from MaRakow
# [18:50] <dael> MaRakow: I'm working on merging in the snap, adding area nad align first and those are mostly merged in. Once those are in and i update the definitions I think it'll be a coherent set I can push up.
# [18:50] <dael> MaRakow: Right now it has references to other items that need to be merged, but it should be a reasonable intermediate.
# [18:51] <fantasai> 1. Replacing scroll-snap-destination with scroll-snap-padding
# [18:51] <fantasai> 2. Replacing scroll-snap-coordinate with scroll-snap-align
# [18:51] <fantasai> and scroll-snap-area
# [18:51] <fantasai> 3. Adding axis keywords to scroll-snap-type
# [18:51] <dael> fantasai: While you work on this we should have resolutions on the specific technical things that we're changing. [lists them]
# [18:51] <dael> fantasai: These are the things you're working on. If there's no reason to disagree and you're doing the editing, it would be good to have a resolution from the WG on the books since we didn't get there at TPAC
# [18:52] <dael> MaRakow: For 1 and 2 that makes sense but there may be some small changes. #3 we discussed if axis was going to be its own prop and that's still ont he ML.
# [18:52] <dael> fantasai: Yes and we can have an issue on that. I would take that ML discussion as a seperate issue and have the resolutions as the changes we're making.
# [18:52] <fantasai> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Nov/0328.html
# [18:52] <Florian> Just for the record, some of the specs in the test case PR queue: css-page, css-ui, selectors, css-cascade, css-flexbox, css-variables, css21, css-transforms, css-shapes, css-fonts, css-masking, clip-path
# [18:52] <dael> MaRakow: Would it make sense to resolve the issue before the resolution?
# [18:53] <dael> fantasai: I want to give impl a clear direction where we're going.
# [18:53] <dael> fantasai: So, we can make te resolution be have axis keywords on a scroll container, TBD which property. That's what's up in the air.
# [18:53] <dael> fantasai: I want to make sure the things we agreed on are recorded as agreed on.
# [18:54] <dael> fantasai: So for #3 we would resolve "Add axis keywords to a property applied to the scroll container."
# [18:54] <dael> MaRakow: Yeah. I think that makes sense.
# [18:54] <dael> fantasai: So we're in agreement. Does the rest of the WG want to object?
# [18:55] * bradk has to leave a little early. Bye.
# [18:55] <fantasai> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Nov/0328.html
# [18:55] <dael> Rossen_away: So you agree on points 1 and 2. Right now you also agree on the axis keyword pending some open issues.
# [18:55] <dael> fantasai: Open issue^
# [18:55] <dael> Rossen_away: Okay, anyone object?
# [18:55] <fantasai> "Add axis keywords, pending issue, per [message above]"
# [18:55] <dael> RESOLVED: Replacing scroll-snap-destination with scroll-snap-padding
# [18:55] <fantasai> s/issue/shorthanding issue/
# [18:55] <dael> RESOLVED: Replacing scroll-snap-coordinate with scroll-snap-align and scroll-snap-area
# [18:56] <dael> RESOLVED: Add axis keywords to a property applied to the scroll container with added issues
# [18:56] <dael> Rossen_away: Okay. We're looking forward to more edits and the spec coming out soon.
# [18:56] <dael> fantasai: We are looking for comments on that issue.
# [18:56] <dael> Rossen_away: dbaron preference on will change topics?
# [18:56] <dael> dbaron: It's okay to let the editor deal with these.
# [18:57] <Rossen_web_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Nov/0334.html
# [18:57] <dael> Rossen_away: First one is estabilishing containing block for fixe elements.
# [18:57] <Rossen_web_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Nov/0332.html
# [18:57] <dael> dbaron: They're both wording details. I don't think there's big issues to discuss. As long as the editor agrees that what was ment by the spec is what I think, we don't need discussion.
# [18:57] <dael> Rossen_web_: Okay.
# [18:57] <dael> Rossen_web_: Sounds good.
# [18:58] <dael> Rossen_web_: If this is something that can be taken care of by TabAtkins let's leave it.
# [18:58] <dael> Rossen_web_: We have 3 minutes. Any topics or do we end early?
# [18:58] * Quits: AH_Miller (~AH_Miller@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [18:58] <dael> dbaron: One comment on the testing issue. I tend to think the standard of review for tests shouldn't be as strict as code. If a test is testing something that a dev later concludes isn't what the spec calls for that gets caught later in the process.
# [18:59] * Quits: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak) ("Signing Off. Buh-bye.")
# [18:59] <astearns> tests have long-term continuous review by getting in the test suite and getting run
# [18:59] <dael> dbaron: Basically I think tests shouldn't need a huge amount of review. They should be reviewed...at least for contributers proven somewhat competent, they should jsut be reviewed for is this testing the thing it says it's testing. Rather that then set up a comprehensive process.
# [19:00] <dael> fantasai: I think that is the key issue. As long as a test is testing for what it says it should be accepted.
# [19:00] <fantasai> Review requirements:
# [19:00] <fantasai> 1. Does this pass when it should pass?
# [19:00] <fantasai> 2. Does this fail when it should fail?
# [19:00] <dael> Florian: There's a higher risk for tests that pass when it shouldn't, but given the lack of review we have that's a lesser evil.
# [19:00] <fantasai> 3. Does this test what it thinks its testing?
# [19:01] <dael> Rossen_web_: These are all fair points. I wasn't suggesting a level of rigor. If they're going through a short list and later let them be rejuested that's fine. Or we can do detailed reviews and only accept tests that we think will pass. It's a long topic, but something we should keep discussing and come up with solutions.
# [19:01] <fantasai> I don't think anything else is necessary, though more detailed comments might be nice in some cases.
# [19:01] <dael> Rossen_web_: Especially while we have tests. We don't want to stop that.
# [19:01] * Quits: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
# [19:01] * Quits: jihye (~jihye@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [19:01] <dael> Rossen_web_: We're at the top of the hour. That's everyone and see you next week.
# [19:02] * Quits: alex_antennahouse (~605be456@public.cloak) ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
# [19:02] * Quits: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [19:04] * Quits: vollick (~vollick@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [19:08] * Quits: dael (~dael@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [19:09] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [19:09] * Quits: myles (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [19:10] * Quits: Rossen_web_ (~Rossen_web@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [19:15] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
# [19:16] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
# [19:19] * Quits: arybka (~arybka@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [19:22] * Quits: antenna (~antenna@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
# [19:24] * Joins: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak)
# [19:27] * Quits: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak) ("Signing Off. Buh-bye.")
# [19:28] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
# [19:29] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [19:32] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [19:32] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [19:41] * Quits: mmun (~sid13585@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [19:41] * Quits: ElijahLynn (~sid21431@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [19:41] * Quits: astearns (~sid15080@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [19:41] * Quits: koji (~sid53200@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [19:52] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
# [19:52] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [19:54] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
# [19:58] * Joins: mmun (~sid13585@public.cloak)
# [19:58] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [19:59] * Joins: astearns (~sid15080@public.cloak)
# [19:59] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [20:01] * Joins: ElijahLynn (~sid21431@public.cloak)
# [20:02] * Joins: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak)
# [20:06] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:06] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [20:06] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
# [20:06] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:07] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [20:14] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [20:15] * Joins: koji (~sid53200@public.cloak)
# [20:27] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
# [20:29] * plinss is now known as plinss_away
# [20:29] * plinss_away is now known as plinss
# [20:33] * Quits: amtiskaw (~sid19262@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:33] * Quits: birtles (~sid16523@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:33] * Quits: robertknight_clo (~sid15951@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:33] * Quits: iank (~sid43239@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:33] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [20:54] * Quits: shane (~sid61558@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: Teoli___ (~sid23960@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: esprehn (~sid10445@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: dwim_ (~sid10661@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: rbyers (~sid31141@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: bkardell_ (~uid10373@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: dstockwell (~sid40369@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: ppk___ (~sid6313@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:54] * Quits: krit (~sid15081@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:55] * Quits: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:58] * Joins: robertknight_clo (~sid15951@public.cloak)
# [20:59] * Quits: majidvp (~sid96638@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:59] * Quits: timeless (~sid4015@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:59] * Quits: TabAtkins (~sid11559@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:59] * Quits: JonathanNeal_ (~sid5831@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:59] * Quits: nikos (~sid28403@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:59] * Quits: lmclister______ (~sid13822@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [20:59] * Quits: cbiesinger (~sid8099@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [21:00] * Joins: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak)
# [21:01] * Joins: birtles (~sid16523@public.cloak)
# [21:02] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [21:05] * Joins: ppk___ (~sid6313@public.cloak)
# [21:05] * Joins: timeless (~sid4015@public.cloak)
# [21:06] * Joins: amtiskaw (~sid19262@public.cloak)
# [21:07] * Joins: JonathanNeal_ (~sid5831@public.cloak)
# [21:07] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
# [21:08] * Joins: esprehn (~sid10445@public.cloak)
# [21:08] * Joins: bkardell_ (~uid10373@public.cloak)
# [21:09] * Joins: cbiesinger (~sid8099@public.cloak)
# [21:09] * Joins: dwim_ (~sid10661@public.cloak)
# [21:09] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@public.cloak) ("Bye")
# [21:09] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@public.cloak)
# [21:10] * Joins: TabAtkins (~sid11559@public.cloak)
# [21:12] * Joins: lmclister______ (~sid13822@public.cloak)
# [21:16] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [21:18] * Joins: krit (~sid15081@public.cloak)
# [21:19] * Joins: nikos (~sid28403@public.cloak)
# [21:20] * Joins: iank (~sid43239@public.cloak)
# [21:21] * Joins: myles (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [21:25] * Quits: rego (~rego@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [21:27] * Quits: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [21:27] * Joins: Teoli___ (~sid23960@public.cloak)
# [21:33] * Joins: lajava (~javi@public.cloak)
# [21:35] * Joins: rbyers (~sid31141@public.cloak)
# [21:35] * Joins: rego (~rego@public.cloak)
# [21:41] * Joins: dstockwell (~sid40369@public.cloak)
# [21:52] * Joins: majidvp (~sid96638@public.cloak)
# [21:54] * Joins: shane (~sid61558@public.cloak)
# [21:58] * Quits: rego (~rego@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
# [22:07] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
# [22:10] * Disconnected
# [23:19] * Attempting to rejoin channel #css
# [23:19] * Rejoined channel #css
# [23:19] * Topic is '2015-12-02 conference call https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Dec/0022.html'
# [23:19] * Set by glazou on Wed Dec 02 17:28:25
# [23:19] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
# [23:32] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
# [23:54] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
# Session Close: Thu Dec 03 00:00:00 2015

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn