/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2011-12-10 / end

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# Session Start: Sat Dec 10 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #developers
# [00:00] <edmorley> so basically we're on a one-in, one-out door policy, nice
# [00:00] <khuey> roc: well we'd have to change all the windows builders, no?
# [00:00] * philor is now known as philor|away
# [00:00] <mak> I can backout places and look for the old Mork code
# [00:00] <khuey> heh
# [00:00] * Joins: smooney (smooney@moz-3C7A0050.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [00:00] <jcranmer|away> I don't think the mork code is smaller
# [00:00] * Quits: tonymec|away (tonymec@F6247832.B37D948C.277517C1.IP) (Input/output error)
# [00:00] * Joins: erikvold (erikvold@84B8C786.B12AEDC0.6E712CE2.IP)
# [00:00] <roc> I assume all the hardware is x64 already ... you can't even buy 32-bit hardware these days,right?
# [00:00] * khuey wonders if we could remove rdf
# [00:00] <jcranmer|away> there are a few thousand lines of "unused" code in mork
# [00:00] * armenzg is now known as armenzg_away
# [00:00] <khuey> roc: I meant the software, not the hw
# [00:00] <mak> khuey: localstore.rdf
# [00:01] <mbrubeck> You guys should throw out XUL and rewrite the UI with native widgets
# [00:01] <roc> we already have 64-bit Windows builders, right?
# [00:01] <mbrubeck> If it works for fennec...
# [00:01] <khuey> roc: right ...
# [00:01] <edmorley> so to fix this short term, who gets to be backed out?
# [00:01] * Quits: armenzg_away (armenzg@moz-8555CE12.cable.teksavvy.com) (Input/output error)
# [00:01] <khuey> mbrubeck: don't say that in front of the wrong people
# [00:01] <khuey> they'll get bad ideas
# [00:02] <roc> so we need a new builder configuration, but it's a mix-and-match of stuff we already do
# [00:02] <khuey> right
# [00:02] <khuey> mak: what does localstore.rdf even do?
# [00:02] <IanN> is there a flag I can give that makes sure when I am building/linking that it does not try and use the system xulrunner SDK?
# [00:02] * bwinton is now known as bwinton_away
# [00:02] <mak> khuey: all the windows persisted attributes
# [00:02] <mak> for example
# [00:03] * Quits: demian (hashd@DD12015D.EBE2EE2B.C7CEC4ED.IP) (Quit: BitchX: double your pleasure, double your fun!)
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# [00:03] <khuey> I don't even know what those are :-P
# [00:03] <dolske> size and position
# [00:03] <Callek> 709193 scares me
# [00:03] <roc> do we need to back stuff out? How long will it take to update the Windows builders to 64-bit OS?
# [00:04] <Callek> since we can't boot at larger than /3G on windows
# [00:04] <dolske> but the better answer to your question is "kill ponies"
# [00:04] * Quits: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP) (Ping timeout)
# [00:04] <mak> Callek: yeah, everybody's talking about that
# [00:04] <bjacob> azakai: ping
# [00:04] <Callek> roc: I expect to get them upgraded/tested at least mid-january, and thats if releng does almost nothing else, imo. [I don't pretend to speak for them though, just my presumptions]
# [00:05] <azakai> bjacob: pong
# [00:05] <mak> just to confuse things more, retrigger on mbrubeck's push is... purple!
# [00:05] <bjacob> azakai: are you in MV office now?
# [00:05] * Quits: beaufour (beaufour@18D5CC88.C7EE4FB2.ECED8BE3.IP) (Quit: beaufour)
# [00:05] <bjacob> jgilbert: ^
# [00:05] <azakai> bjacob: yeah
# [00:05] <bjacob> azakai: talk to jgilbert
# [00:05] <azakai> hi jgilbert :)
# [00:06] * mbrubeck votes for retriggering on bhackett's push rather than trying mine again
# [00:06] <bjacob> azakai: i think the google guys at webgl camp currently in MV office would like a chat with you
# [00:06] <jgilbert> azakai: ken russel is looking for you, are you around?
# [00:06] <azakai> jgilbert: yeah, where should I meet you?
# [00:06] * liuche is now known as liuche|dinner
# [00:06] <jgilbert> 10fwd entrance?
# [00:07] <azakai> jgilbert: sounds good, I am on my way now
# [00:07] * Quits: diogogmt (kvirc@F1451709.44D93D66.1139E686.IP) (Ping timeout)
# [00:07] <mak> well, at this point let's vote for closing the trees, adding more code is clearly not going to help.
# [00:08] <mak> who's against?
# [00:08] <edmorley> i agree
# [00:08] <khuey> well if it is what we think it is we've already lost, right?
# [00:08] <khuey> since it's on ux?
# [00:08] * Joins: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP)
# [00:08] <edmorley> ux tip is green
# [00:08] <mak> ux may just merge to current m-c
# [00:09] * Joins: demian (demian@DD12015D.EBE2EE2B.C7CEC4ED.IP)
# [00:09] <edmorley> ux doesn't merge to m-c
# [00:09] * Quits: azakai (alon@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
# [00:09] <mak> from
# [00:09] * Quits: demian (demian@DD12015D.EBE2EE2B.C7CEC4ED.IP) (Quit: No Reason)
# [00:09] <mak> I wrote to but I meant from
# [00:09] * Quits: mjschranz (mjschranz@D1606AB3.33EE9F8A.1139E686.IP) (Client exited)
# [00:09] * Joins: demian (demian@DD12015D.EBE2EE2B.C7CEC4ED.IP)
# [00:09] * philor|away is now known as philor
# [00:09] <khuey> the last ux nightly is read
# [00:09] <khuey> *red
# [00:10] <mak> merging m-c to UX may help, or not, depending on how much additional code UX has...
# [00:10] <edmorley> lol: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=583890 " This new version should show up in tomorrow's nightly build. I can't wait!" (UX build)
# [00:10] <edmorley> might be waiting a while
# [00:10] <khuey> my point is closing inbound won't help
# [00:10] <roc> we can ship non-PGO nightlies for a while
# [00:10] <khuey> because people will just push to m-c and push m-c over the edge
# [00:10] <Unfocused> those on Aurora get updates every day, right? (this shows how often i run aurora...)
# [00:10] <mak> khuey: I was saying to close all relevant trees
# [00:11] <khuey> we basically have to close everything :-(
# [00:11] <mbrubeck> My PGO trigger on UX doesn't seem to be building
# [00:11] <khuey> Unfocused: every day that something is checked in, yes
# [00:11] <mbrubeck> Is that because UX isn't configured for PGO builds?
# [00:11] <khuey> mbrubeck: maybe you can't trigger PGO builds on UX cause they don't run there?
# [00:11] <mbrubeck> I can trigger nightlies instead...
# [00:11] <Unfocused> khuey: close enough. thanks!
# [00:11] <khuey> right
# [00:11] <khuey> mak: yeah ...
# [00:11] * Quits: demian (demian@DD12015D.EBE2EE2B.C7CEC4ED.IP) (Quit: No Reason)
# [00:11] * mbrubeck triggers nightlies on UX
# [00:11] <khuey> roc: idk that we want to play that game
# [00:11] <khuey> for one, we'll have a big hole in our talos numbers
# [00:11] <khuey> while we're not doing pgo
# [00:11] <mak> for now let's close, then we can discuss to disable pgo on nibhtlies or whatever...
# [00:12] <roc> we have talos numbers for non-PGO
# [00:12] <Callek> khuey: sooooo btw....
# [00:12] <khuey> yeah
# [00:12] * Joins: hashd (demian@DD12015D.EBE2EE2B.C7CEC4ED.IP)
# [00:12] <Callek> khuey: SeaMonkey (of course non-pgo) is still green based on m-c
# [00:12] <Callek> http://build.mozillamessaging.com/tinderboxpushlog/?tree=SeaMonkey
# [00:12] <Callek> and we do add lots of mailnews/ code to libxul
# [00:12] * Quits: Sander (chatzilla@moz-B871F4D3.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
# [00:12] * khuey wishes he had built the big red close the tree button
# [00:12] <roc> Callek: this is a PGO-only issue
# [00:12] <khuey> SM should be unaffected, AIUI
# [00:13] <khuey> mak: are you closing?
# [00:13] <roc> I don't think we can just stop development until Releng has win64 32-bit builders
# [00:13] <Callek> roc: well the first time it was hit; it hit SeaMonkey/Thunderbird first, because of the libxul codesize increase
# [00:13] <mak> khuey: as you prefer, I can do that
# [00:13] <Callek> for the linker
# [00:13] * Joins: azakai (alon@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
# [00:13] <khuey> mak: ok, I'll update the bug
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# [00:13] * tonymec__ is now known as tonymec|away
# [00:13] <Callek> iirc
# [00:13] <mak> ok, closing
# [00:13] * Quits: ajuma (ajuma@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: ajuma)
# [00:14] <mbrubeck> khuey: http://www.thegreenhead.com/2007/05/big-red-button-doomsday-device-usb-hub.php
# [00:14] <roc> anyone tried doing a 32bit PGO build locally?
# [00:14] * jhopkins is now known as jhopkins|away
# [00:14] <mbrubeck> not clear whether it actually sends any input to the computer when you press it...
# [00:14] <jhammel> mbrubeck: friggin nice;
# [00:14] <khuey> jhford-buildduty: ping?
# [00:14] * Quits: stevee (Miranda@moz-BEBDF855.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Miranda IM - Multi protocol instant messenger @ www.miranda-im.org)
# [00:14] <jhammel> mbrubeck: it would be nice be be able to hook it up to something
# [00:15] <khuey> mbrubeck: awesome
# [00:15] <khuey> I've wanted to install something like this in the office
# [00:15] <khuey> and hook it up to close the tree
# [00:15] <khuey> for a while
# [00:15] <jhford-buildduty> khuey: pong
# [00:15] <khuey> jhford-buildduty: so, we have a bit of a problem
# [00:15] <jhford-buildduty> what's that
# [00:15] <khuey> we think we've run out of virtual address space during PGO builds again
# [00:15] * coop is now known as coop|away
# [00:16] * Joins: tonymec (tonymec@F6247832.B37D948C.277517C1.IP)
# [00:16] <khuey> we've got multiple internal compiler errors across branches :-(
# [00:16] <jhford-buildduty> sounds like a code issue
# [00:16] <jhford-buildduty> beyond us installing the 32bit tools on a 64bit install of windows
# [00:16] <jhford-buildduty> there isn't much we can do
# [00:16] <khuey> yeah ...
# [00:16] <khuey> I fear we may have to do that
# [00:16] <jhford-buildduty> as we already are running with /3
# [00:17] <mbrubeck> oh oh
# [00:17] <mbrubeck> look at inbound tip
# [00:17] <mbrubeck> oh, good, different error
# [00:17] * mak closed m-c, m-i, fx-team
# [00:17] * Quits: Mardak (Mardak@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: Mardak)
# [00:17] <mak> any other tree to close?
# [00:17] * mak changes topic to 'mozilla-central: CLOSED || mozilla-inbound: CLOSED || Next aurora uplift: 20th Dec || If you are new or want to help, see irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction'
# [00:18] * Quits: roc (chatzilla@C0ACF8B.5E1E9EEA.613E47D1.IP) (Ping timeout)
# [00:18] <mbrubeck> mak: We should probably let the services-central people know what's up.
# [00:18] <mbrubeck> philikon: ^
# [00:18] <mbrubeck> khuey can take care of b-s
# [00:18] <khuey> heh
# [00:18] <khuey> I'm the only one who checks in there
# [00:18] <mbrubeck> exactly :)
# [00:18] * Joins: roc (chatzilla@C0ACF8B.5E1E9EEA.613E47D1.IP)
# [00:18] <mak> well, someone may post to tree-management too
# [00:18] <philor> since that red on the tip had one of those what-happened? purples before it, it probably needs a clobber
# [00:18] <philor> as do all the rest, probably
# [00:19] <jesup> Ah fun, looks like I'm the source for an additional step in the "recover your imap email" instructions now: rename your old imap account (in thunderbird) *before* adding the new one. If not, they get the same name and somehow get semi-merged, and your old email gets deleted even though the server name was changed on the old account. Oh, and Thunderbird will crash on exit.
# [00:19] * mbrubeck starts loading clobberer
# [00:19] <Callek> philor: that purple was on a different slave
# [00:19] <khuey> mak: yeah, I'll do that
# [00:19] <philor> Callek: "that purple"?
# [00:19] * Quits: tonymec (tonymec@F6247832.B37D948C.277517C1.IP) (Input/output error)
# [00:19] <Callek> oooo actually yea, I see lots more purple
# [00:19] <philor> https://build.mozilla.org/buildapi/recent/mw32-ix-slave09
# [00:19] <Callek> and indeed there was a purple on slave09
# [00:19] <khuey> jhford-buildduty: what can we do to verify that we're running out of VM space?
# [00:20] * Callek suggests purging all ix win32 slave builders
# [00:20] * Quits: smaug (chatzilla@moz-BCF50CB2.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout)
# [00:20] <mbrubeck> khuey, jhford-buildduty: Do we have a way to test with MSVC2010 on the build slaves?
# [00:20] <jhford-buildduty> i dont know if we have 2010 on the slave off the top of my head
# [00:20] <khuey> we do
# [00:21] <khuey> rail++
# [00:21] * Quits: TheLink (TheLink@moz-4FAE5288.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Client exited)
# [00:21] <khuey> mbrubeck: we can drop the msvc2010 magic into the mozconfig
# [00:21] <mbrubeck> Firefox 11 could always just drop support for Windows...
# [00:21] <jhford-buildduty> well, that's a decision that I don't think can be made here or now
# [00:21] <edmorley> 2000; \o/ msvc2010
# [00:22] <mbrubeck> No, I mean "drop support for Windows."
# [00:22] <mbrubeck> :)
# [00:22] <jhford-buildduty> oh, hehe
# [00:22] <jhford-buildduty> r+
# [00:22] <edmorley> :P
# [00:22] <khuey> yeah, there are product considerations for switching the compiler
# [00:22] * mbrubeck reads bug 563318
# [00:22] <jhford-buildduty> khuey: beyond watching task manager while doing a build, i dunno
# [00:22] * Joins: tonymec (tonymec@F6247832.B37D948C.277517C1.IP)
# [00:22] <jhford-buildduty> (do we have /bin/free on widnows?)
# [00:23] * catlee is now known as catlee-away
# [00:23] <khuey> doubt it
# [00:23] <philor> so, about those purples...
# [00:24] * rail is now known as rail_away
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# [00:24] <jhford-buildduty> we probably need to bump the free space requirements
# [00:24] <khuey> how would that help?
# [00:24] <Callek> jhford-buildduty: well that would only cause RETRY's for this particular issue, aiui, (but yea thats better than this problem)
# [00:25] <khuey> and what is "the free space requirements"?
# [00:25] <mbrubeck> philor: just finished clobbering...
# [00:25] <Callek> jhford-buildduty: at least bear did kill off some extra hg-share dirs to make them free
# [00:25] * Quits: madhava (madhava@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: madhava)
# [00:25] <Callek> khuey: at the start of a build, clobberer tries to delete directories until it "meets the free space requirement" which is set with us in buildbot
# [00:26] <jhford-buildduty> if we are running out of space, deleting out of the share cache will free space but is a patchy solution
# [00:26] <Callek> khuey: if it can't meet that requirement it aborts and lets another machine handle it, if it can, it continues on
# [00:26] <jhford-buildduty> bumping the free space requirement is much more important
# [00:26] <khuey> this is a separate problem then?
# [00:26] * philor scratches his head
# [00:26] * khuey doesn't see how this is relevant to VM space exhaustion
# [00:26] <jgilbert> azakai: next gap is the end at about 4:45
# [00:27] * philor doesn't see how it is relevant to having just had an unexamined huge rash of windows builders disconnect in mid-job
# [00:27] <mak> hm interesting on edmorley push, we have one green and one red
# [00:27] <Callek> its a different issue to the Virtual Memory space, this is a Virtual Machine HD Space issue
# [00:27] <mak> so there's some randomness here
# [00:28] <khuey> well pgo is non-deterministic to begin with
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# [00:30] <mak> this log is strange lots of stuff regarding D2D and exceptions https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=7862251&tree=Mozilla-Inbound
# [00:30] * Quits: Boriss (FlyingToas@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Ping timeout)
# [00:30] * Boriss_ is now known as Boriss
# [00:30] <mak> warning C4275: non dll-interface class 'stdext::exception' used as base for dll-interface class 'std::bad_cast'
# [00:30] <mak> FoDrawTargetD2D.obj
# [00:31] * Quits: dRdR (dRdR@moz-7B0110AD.mv.mozilla.com) (Client exited)
# [00:31] <mak> and a bunch of others... maybe it's usual, unsure
# [00:32] * mbrubeck triggers PGO on bhackett's push, just to finish the job...
# [00:32] <khuey> mak: did you close central?
# [00:32] * Quits: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP) (Ping timeout)
# [00:32] <mak> I did
# [00:32] <khuey> tbpl seems to think it's open
# [00:32] <edmorley> refresh
# [00:33] <khuey> aha
# [00:33] <jhford-buildduty> mc is closed for me
# [00:34] <mak> hm ah btw, the error on mbrubeck's build is a network loss
# [00:34] <mak> but the build seems fine
# [00:34] <mbrubeck> oh good, maybe the datacenter will go down again and we can all mfbt...
# [00:34] <khuey> heh
# [00:35] <khuey> so do we have a single cset that the compiler reliably fails on?
# [00:36] <jhford-buildduty> khuey: i don't think that bug should be under release engineering yet
# [00:36] <edmorley> on the plus side no merging to be done, so i might actually get some patches written over the weekend
# [00:36] <jhford-buildduty> until we figure out what's going on, there isn't anything we can do about it
# [00:38] <khuey> well is there a way to verify what we think is happening without VNCing into a machine and watching task manager?
# [00:38] <edmorley> how about we push inbound tip + force PGO mozconfig to try + then a variation that uses msvc2010 + a variation that disables some random --disable-webm etc
# [00:38] <edmorley> to test the theory
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# [00:39] <khuey> edmorley: do we have a cset that we know fails repeatedly?
# [00:39] <jhford-buildduty> khuey: not that i know of
# [00:39] <edmorley> almost all of them https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&jobname=WINNT%205.2%20mozilla-inbound%20pgo-build
# [00:39] <jhford-buildduty> and its not because of an error with the pgo process?
# [00:40] <khuey> edmorley: ok, lets do that
# [00:40] <khuey> are you going to do that?
# [00:40] <edmorley> yes
# [00:40] <khuey> awesome, thanks
# [00:40] * Quits: ahal (ahal@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Client exited)
# [00:40] <khuey> jhford-buildduty: well it's an internal compiler error, so it's kind of an error with the pgo process by definition
# [00:40] <khuey> the question is what we can do to fix it
# [00:41] <khuey> if you want to punt it back until we've verified what's happening that's fine, I don't mind
# [00:41] <jhford-buildduty> http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/101287/fatal-error-lnk1000-internal-error-during-image-buildimage-for-large-projects-with-nested-exceptions
# [00:41] <jhford-buildduty> ok, i'll do that
# [00:41] * bear is now known as bear-afk
# [00:41] * Quits: kaie (kaie@moz-FCA4070.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving)
# [00:41] <jhford-buildduty> but that could just be a generic error message. thankfully i dont know much about the windows linker
# [00:42] <mak> as I said before, I see a lots of exceptions related warnings in the build log
# [00:42] <mak> related to D2D
# [00:42] <khuey> if it was a code problem I wouldn't expect it to be intermittent
# [00:43] <mak> it depends on what causes the image::BuildImage error internally...
# [00:43] <mak> but we can't know
# [00:43] <mak> looks like msvc is closed source :p
# [00:43] <jhford-buildduty> if its PGO, there is non-deterministic behaviour introduced
# [00:44] <khuey> what are these warnings?
# [00:44] <philikon> mbrubeck: what's up?
# [00:44] <jhford-buildduty> so even with the same code, the linker won't react the same way
# [00:44] <jhford-buildduty> should we be printing verbose linker output
# [00:44] <mak> khuey: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=7862251&tree=Mozilla-Inbound look for FoDrawTargetD2D.obj and scroll down
# [00:44] <edmorley> khuey: what would you suggest --disable-foo'ing?
# [00:44] <mbrubeck> philikon: m-c and inbound are closed because of bug 709193
# [00:44] <jhford-buildduty> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/wdsk6as6%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
# [00:44] <mbrubeck> philikon: Just wanted to let you know since it may impact s-c merges
# [00:45] <khuey> edmorley: good q
# [00:45] <philikon> rnewman: ^^^
# [00:45] <rnewman> thanks
# [00:45] <mak> khuey: scroll down a lot, there's more below
# [00:45] <edmorley> btw are we supposed to still have --enable-js-diagnostics in win32 nightly mozconfig? it's been removed in other places...
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# [00:46] <edmorley> (unrelated I know, but I had the mozconfig open for MOZ_PGO=1)
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# [00:47] <khuey> edmorley: maybe --disable-accessibility and --disable-webm?
# [00:47] <khuey> those ought to be a fair amount of code
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# [00:47] <khuey> mak: I don't think those are related
# [00:47] <felipe> note that there are various reports on the web about the same bug
# [00:47] <jhford-buildduty> edmorley: you're looking at the in-tree mozconfigs right?
# [00:47] <edmorley> jhford-buildduty: yeah
# [00:47] <jhford-buildduty> ok
# [00:48] <felipe> and the patch for 703444 has compiler specific code which is more likely to trigger these bugs
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# [00:48] <felipe> I already dealt with 2 other msvc2005 bugs that it was triggering on regular builds
# [00:48] <felipe> before landing
# [00:48] <khuey> felipe: the compiler error showed up on a branch that doesn't have that patch
# [00:48] <edmorley> tryserver is being slow today
# [00:49] <philor> s/ today//
# [00:49] <edmorley> slower
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# [00:49] <mak> there has been a blog post from catlee about making try faster
# [00:49] <mak> by upgrading to hg 1.9.1
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# [00:49] <edmorley> yeah can't wait
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# [00:50] <felipe> khuey: did it? ok. but still, it could be triggering it more easily
# [00:50] <khuey> felipe: ux branch nightlies have been failing with this error for a couple days
# [00:50] <mak> well after that bug it happens more often, but may even be just a concidence
# [00:50] <khuey> nobody noticed :-P
# [00:51] <khuey> well, or that bug could have added more code which pushes us over the limit more often
# [00:51] <khuey> anyways, lets see how edmorley's try pushes go
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# [00:51] <felipe> ok
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# [00:51] <edmorley> khuey: what's msvc2010 mozconfig lines?
# [00:53] <khuey> . $topsrcdir/browser/config/mozconfigs/win32/vs2010-mozconfig
# [00:53] <roc> none of the code around DrawTargetD2D actually uses exceptions
# [00:54] <jdm> what's the secret to get a build that reports filenames?
# [00:54] <jdm> has that landed?
# [00:54] <jdm> *filenames only?
# [00:54] <edmorley> and now tortoiseHg has jammed up again, at 1.1GB private working set and counting :-/
# [00:54] <mak> roc: yeah, I just noticed a gigantic waterfall of msvc warnings, likely unrelated, thanks for confirming
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# [00:55] <edmorley> jdm: it's merged to m-c as of early today
# [00:56] <jhford-buildduty> khuey: my understanding of how inbound works is that bustage is backed out immediately
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# [00:56] <khuey> jhford-buildduty: the bustage is not localized to inbound ...
# [00:56] <jdm> edmorley: and the way to obtain the behaviour is...
# [00:56] <jhford-buildduty> which other branches are showing it?
# [00:56] <khuey> ux branch nightlies
# [00:56] <edmorley> jdm: make -s (ie the behaviour has returned to how it used to be)
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# [00:57] <jdm> oh
# [00:57] <philor> and I backed out two patches for this same problem already, both of which relanded because they weren't at fault
# [00:57] <jdm> ok, then I guess I pulled before it landed
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# [00:57] <philor> so we could back out bustage immediately, by just backing out every single patch which lands which adds more lines of code than it removes, I guess
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# [00:57] <jhford-buildduty> can we still build without libxul?
# [00:57] <philor> might have a teeny tiny impact on our forward progress
# [00:58] <jdm> jhford-buildduty: nope
# [00:58] <mwu> pretty much impossible, really
# [00:58] <jhford-buildduty> ok
# [00:58] <mak> we may start a large rewrite-in-js effort
# [00:58] <jhford-buildduty> rewrite what?
# [00:58] <mak> everything!
# [00:58] <jhford-buildduty> haha
# [00:58] <mak> mostly cpp components
# [00:58] <mak> would take just some months...
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# [00:59] <jhford-buildduty> yes, i would think many :)
# [00:59] <mak> btw, in many cases it's feasible
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# [00:59] <jhford-buildduty> i don't doubt
# [00:59] <mbrubeck> what about splitting some stuff out into a separate library?
# [00:59] * mbrubeck asks, without knowing what he's talking about
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# [00:59] <mak> I think many components already broke the possibility to be built apart, using internal references
# [01:00] <khuey> dflanagan is doing dom.js
# [01:00] <khuey> we should just take that
# [01:00] <mak> to jsapi and similar
# [01:00] <jhford-buildduty> more conjecture: would splitting things like codecs into another library that's only loaded on the first attempt to use it be useful?
# [01:00] <khuey> mbrubeck: that is an option
# [01:00] <khuey> the question is what
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# [01:00] <khuey> yeah, third party libs like video codecs are a decent idea
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# [01:01] <mak> since the problem is Windows, may be worth to first look at Windows only stuff?
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# [01:01] <mak> even if again, the question is what...
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# [01:02] <gps> jdm: for bug 463122 the error will need to be *actionable* to collect the bounty. e.g. for syntax failure the filename and line of the error should be printed. I can't tell if the existing patch accomplishes this
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# [01:02] <jdm> gps: I know. I think the patch I put up is better than the current status quo, in that it should be less misleading.
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# [01:03] <jdm> gps: I've forgotten a lot of my original investigation details, but I definitely convinced myself that there was no simple way to bubble the original exception up
# [01:03] <gps> OK. I don't want you thinking you will be collecting my bounty for a trivial error constant change ;)
# [01:03] <jdm> and that the existing behaviour was not incorrect
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# [01:03] <jdm> ie. there were no exceptions being lost unintenionally
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# [01:03] <jdm> heh
# [01:04] <gps> yeah. it's really a feature enhancement, not a bug. hence the bounty for encouragement :)
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# [01:06] <mak> edmorley: another interesting push to try you may do, push central tip + ehsan's sps patch
# [01:06] <edmorley> ah
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# [01:10] <edmorley> mak: 3rd try run searching for changesets
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# [01:10] <mak> :(
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# [01:16] <taras> jaws: you rule
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# [01:30] <jhford-buildduty> edmorley: those look like great things to run through try :D
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# [01:34] <Jesse> jesup: sounds like our zimbra implosion brought out all kinds of edge cases in email/calendar apps
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# [01:39] <Jesse> my dom fuzzer is enjoying the tree closure. it's finding bugs faster than usual.
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# [01:40] <lurking> hey guru's - non-coder question - but- pgo builds I know make two passes , one build then followed by another - I'm assuming then that the pgo optimization takes place between those two builds - where is the 1st build ? is it showved off somewhere, held in memory , or just a compare off disk/cache ? Could it be that build machines just can't hold two builds ?
# [01:40] <JonathanS> Did anyone see this chart? http://blogs-images.forbes.com/andygreenberg/files/2011/12/chromefirefox2.jpg
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# [01:41] <biesi> lurking, in between the build is run, the pgo optimization as such happens during the second compile
# [01:41] <biesi> not that this answers your question
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# [01:41] <lurking> close, but is it doing something with the 1st pass build ? or does it even need the 1st pass
# [01:42] <biesi> lurking, yes, it runs the build
# [01:42] <biesi> to get the profile
# [01:42] <biesi> to use for the profile-guided optimization
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# [01:42] <Jesse> JonathanS: yes, i read part of the Accuvant paper the chart is from
# [01:42] <lurking> ok, is that intensive to memory use - maybe leading the issues your fighting with pgo builds ?
# [01:43] <Jesse> JonathanS: http://www.accuvant.com/capability/accuvant-labs/security-research/browser-security-comparison-quantitative-approach
# [01:43] <JonathanS> Jesse, how does JIT Hardening and plugin security would work as effective?
# [01:43] <Jesse> JonathanS: i couldn't figure out what they meant by "plug-in security", or what they wanted browsers to do in place of "URL blacklisting"
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# [01:44] <Jesse> JonathanS: cdleary has a JIT hardening patch ready, we just didn't want it and TI to land too close to each other
# [01:44] <JonathanS> ah, you are looking a time frame to land it,
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# [01:45] <edmorley> Jesse: why faster/
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# [01:45] <edmorley> s_/_?_
# [01:45] <Jesse> edmorley: presumably, there are more machines free to run the fuzzer, since nobody is checking in :)
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# [01:45] <oneman> I have arrived
# [01:46] <edmorley> Jesse: ah sorry I thought you ran it locally on a bunch of machines
# [01:46] <rillian> hi oneman!
# [01:46] <Jesse> edmorley: i do that too, but our datacenters hold more machines than my desk :)
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# [01:47] <edmorley> good idea to use slack time
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# [01:47] <Jesse> i'm not slacking, my fuzzer is running
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# [01:48] <edmorley> yet another variation on 303
# [01:48] <edmorley> :-)
# [01:49] <Jesse> think i'll get in trouble if i make a t-shirt with http://www.squarefree.com/temp2/not-slacking-3.png
# [01:49] <Jesse> ?
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# [01:49] <jhammel> Jesse: nice :)
# [01:49] <edmorley> hehe :-)
# [01:49] <edmorley> one to wear to the next moz event
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# [01:51] <jaws> thanks taras :)
# [01:51] <Jesse> edmorley: first time i've heard an xkcd other than http://xkcd.com/386/ referenced by number alone
# [01:52] <edmorley> I figured it would be fresh enough, given the bmo outage :-)
# [01:53] <edmorley> and the variations created for that
# [01:54] <Jesse> just need to give one of the swordsmen a fro
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# [01:54] <Jesse> "I'm not slacking, the tree is closed"
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# [01:59] <JonathanS> Jesse, it should have afroswdlish picture with it
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# [02:00] <JonathanS> sandboxing is now industry standard?
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# [02:02] <lurking> probably since industry refuses to upgrade past IE6 :P
# [02:02] <lurking> well, some of it anyway
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# [02:03] <Jesse> "industry standard" is a bs phrase, like "best practice". it's not worth arguing over.
# [02:03] * lurking nods - for sure!
# [02:03] <JonathanS> heh, implement sandbox is about timing.
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# [02:04] <JonathanS> request network and system resources load first then sandbox -.-
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# [02:07] <Callek> Jesse: "industry standards" exist in manufacturing too, fwiw :-P and at least that sector have proven legit and helpful
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# [02:08] <Callek> without it you wouldn't have screws you could use multiple places, even when bought from other vendors :-0
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# [02:08] <JonathanS> Callek, is that pack up and leave and move to China?
# [02:09] <Callek> Jesse: ha, no. I was in college for mechanical engineering, until I decided the demand for that field in the US was too low for me to justify those college fee's
# [02:09] <Jesse> the last time i encountered the phrase "industry software" outside of software was also bullshit, fwiw. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/11/28/maximizing-shareholder-value-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world/)
# [02:09] <Callek> :-)
# [02:09] <Callek> ooo I read that too :-)
# [02:09] * jhammel can only guess what Jesse thinks about web 2.0
# [02:10] <Jesse> Callek: that's a totally different meaning of the word "standard"
# [02:10] <JonathanS> shareholder doesn't understand about technology and doesn't have very sharp mind
# [02:10] <Callek> jhammel: old news, now is Web3.0
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# [02:10] <Callek> Jesse: well those standards erupted only out of "industry standards" to begin with, fwiw.
# [02:10] <jhammel> Callek: what happened to 2.1? is Web on rapid release too? :P
# [02:10] <Callek> jhammel: well I know some are calling it web5 already (b/c of html5)
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# [02:11] <jhammel> hah!
# [02:11] <Callek> I shudder everytime I hear that
# [02:11] <JonathanS> Callek, maximining shareholder value is sounds like excuses for a company to get bailout, taxcut and move their labour to China
# [02:11] * jhammel prefers "The Cloud" :P
# [02:11] <JonathanS> jhammel, how about Information Superhighway?
# [02:11] * Callek loves it when PR and HR folk get their hands on technical terms/descriptions
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# [02:11] <Callek> make updating your resume "fun"
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# [02:12] <Callek> "what is teh current term that HR notice???? O right, Web2.0, or is it Developing in the Cloud, no wait its AJAX!
# [02:12] <JonathanS> Callek, it is like Cloud Specalists, it made you go "huh?"
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# [02:12] <Jesse> i'm halfway through the article. most of it is interesting, but the paragraph that contained the sentence "industry standard" pissed me off. not because of the phrase, but because "tamper-proof" is bullshit security theater that never should have been foisted on us
# [02:13] <JonathanS> Callek http://www.winergyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ajax.jpg is this AJAX your looking for?
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# [02:14] * jhammel prefers comet
# [02:14] <Callek> JonathanS: nope this one: http://www.pinoyshopnsave.com/images/items/95010001.gif
# [02:14] <JonathanS> windows cleaner?
# [02:15] <Callek> edmorley++
# [02:15] <Callek> edmorley: are those try pushes reporting to the bug, or only to you?
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# [02:16] <Callek> (looking at the pushes helps, and no)
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# [02:18] <JonathanS> Callek, why it called cloud? it doesn't make much sense
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# [02:18] <edmorley> Callek: i thought it would spam the bug too much, given the retiggers
# [02:18] <Callek> edmorley: fair enough
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# [02:19] <Callek> edmorley: how many times are you expecting these to build per each push?
# [02:19] <Callek> 6 seems like your current total for the control
# [02:19] <jgilbert> why it's called the cloud actually makes sense
# [02:20] <edmorley> Callek: yeah roughly, but unfortunately for the last push, i can't retrigger until the first one goes from pending to running
# [02:20] <edmorley> \o/
# [02:20] <Callek> yea, I know :/
# [02:21] <jgilbert> network flowcharts often have servers that are network-distant having connections going through a little cloud image
# [02:21] <JonathanS> jgilbert, meh
# [02:21] <JonathanS> Internet is Cloud?
# [02:21] <jgilbert> yep
# [02:22] <Callek> JonathanS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
# [02:22] <JonathanS> it seems Internet has a lot of buzzword
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# [02:34] <philor> good thing we never break the mobile desktop builds, so it was okay to switch them to nightly-only
# [02:34] <philor> mwu: did you see that you broke mobile desktop on aurora?
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# [02:35] <mwu> oh, not so surprising
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# [02:35] <philor> huh, we do nightly-only mobile desktop on beta, too?
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# [02:35] <philor> but we don't do nightlies on beta?
# [02:36] <mwu> since beta users don't like to be updated all the time, I guess
# [02:36] <mwu> hmm I wonder why aurora broke and m-c didn't
# [02:36] * philor tries to imagine a tier low enough to describe that state
# [02:36] <mwu> we still have mobile desktop builds, right
# [02:37] <mwu> on m-c
# [02:37] <philor> are we actually running the nightlies on m-c?
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# [02:37] <mwu> a good question
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# [02:37] <philor> yup, there's a Win Nm
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# [02:39] <lurking> the other question is anybody actually using them ?
# [02:39] <lurking> or is it just a sanity check build ?>
# [02:40] <mwu> I think we're gonna stop supporting them anyway due to the move to native UI..
# [02:40] <mwu> ah crap
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# [02:40] <mwu> I didn't land a follow up fix
# [02:41] <mwu> alright that's easy
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# [02:42] <philor> gotta love lowered expectations - I thought something must be broken, since &onlyunstarred=1 wasn't showing me anything for one push
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# [02:49] <mwu> philor: should be fixed now. though I guess we won't know for a bit
# [02:49] <mwu> but it's a well baked bustage fix.
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# [02:50] <mwu> also starred.
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# [03:31] <Unfocused> i assume that the current tree closures don't apply to Aurora?
# [03:31] <edmorley> no
# [03:32] <Unfocused> no as in "you're correct" or no as in "no you're wrong"? :)
# [03:32] <edmorley> sorry!
# [03:32] <edmorley> no as in aurora is fine to land on
# [03:32] <Unfocused> ah, thanks!
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# [03:33] * Unfocused mumbles about english ambiguities
# [03:33] <doublec> english, the language where "no" can mean "yes"
# [03:33] <edmorley> lol
# [03:34] <edmorley> time for sleep, hopefully tomorrow's try results will bring better news
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# [03:39] <Jesse> do other languages do better somehow?
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# [03:40] <doublec> lojban probably does a good job
# [03:40] <doublec> otherwise, no idea :)
# [03:41] <Jesse> Some languages have different particles (for example the French "si", the German "doch" or the Danish "jo") to answer negative questions (or negative statements) in an affirmative way; they provide a means to express contradiction.
# [03:41] <Jesse> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question#Grammar
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# [03:45] <Callek> gotta love edmorely using up almost all of win try builders with his PGO runs attempt :-)
# [03:46] <Callek> but either way, its a smart move :-)
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# [03:53] <Callek> umm wth edmorleys first push seems to be missing a result
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# [03:58] <Callek> ahhh theres our control first red ;-)
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# [04:02] <jcranmer> sigh
# [04:02] <jcranmer> I should write down for "Steps to reproduce"
# [04:02] <jcranmer> "Do <action> without intending to trigger the bug"
# [04:02] <Callek> jcranmer: what bug?
# [04:03] <jcranmer> Callek: the newsgroup all-marked-as-unread bug
# [04:03] <jcranmer> every time I try to intentionally invoke it
# [04:03] <Callek> ahhh
# [04:03] <jcranmer> it doesn't happen
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# [04:05] <jdm> gerv: ping
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# [04:19] <philor> ouch, 1.27e+03% tp5 regression
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# [04:20] <Waldo> jdm: it's like 3am on Saturday where gerv is, you know...
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# [04:22] <Callek> Waldo: thats not really all that late :-P
# [04:23] <Waldo> come January 2012 I might say that, but not now :-)
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# [04:25] <Waldo> hmm, did gerv disappear from my feeds when his blog moved? :-\
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# [04:26] <Waldo> bleh, his feed's still there, but the last thing I saw was the 700k sweepstakes announcement
# [04:26] <Callek> Waldo: probably, since he didn't do a redirect of the feed, only of the inidividual articles
# [04:26] <Waldo> and I guess no planet blog post noting the move, I see :-\
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# [04:28] <Waldo> dangit
# [04:28] * Waldo used to read the planet component bugmail closely enough to see this stuff
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# [04:34] * Waldo catches up on three months of gerv's posts :-\
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# [04:36] <khuey> !seen bjacob
# [04:36] <firebot> bjacob was last seen 4 hours, 30 minutes and 19 seconds ago, saying 'azakai: i think the google guys at webgl camp currently in MV office would like a chat with you' in #developers.
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# [04:55] <Callek> well on the bright side, if we want to disable a11y and webM we can get green builds
# [04:55] <Callek> :-)
# [04:56] <Unfocused> funny, the a11y guys are arguing we disable font rendering instead
# [04:56] <Unfocused> ;)
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# [04:58] <jcranmer> disable necko?
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# [05:03] <khuey> nah
# [05:03] <khuey> disable xpconnect
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# [05:10] <mbrubeck> MathML? SMIL? XTF? WAVE? RAW? zipwriter?
# [05:10] <mbrubeck> SPDY?
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# [05:11] <khuey> heh
# [05:11] <khuey> so much to choose frome!
# [05:12] <khuey> *from
# [05:12] <khuey> we could even just --disable-compile-environment and save us all the trouble
# [05:12] <philor> oddly, the exact spot in configure.in where I was sitting
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# [05:22] <@bz> so we finally crossed the too much code line into the singularity?
# [05:22] <@bz> the obvious solution is to do unto another module like we did unto js and unlink it from libxul
# [05:22] <@bz> or move to 64-bit builders
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# [05:24] <Unfocused> or rewrite everything in JS
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# [05:25] <Unfocused> ... not that i'm volunteering...
# [05:25] <@bz> by tonight?
# [05:25] <@bz> seems ambitious
# [05:25] <pcwalton> is there an event like pagehide that actually fires when the page is visually hidden?
# [05:25] <@bz> define "visually hidden"?
# [05:26] <jcranmer> I'm doing a really good job
# [05:26] <jcranmer> of finding bugs
# [05:26] <jcranmer> except for the one I'm trying to fix
# [05:26] <pcwalton> such that dispatching a draw event after the event will result in either a blank screen or (part of) the DOM of the page being navigated to
# [05:27] <pcwalton> but never the page being navigated from
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# [05:28] <pcwalton> I have chrome privs here and an nsIWebProgressListener hooked up the browser, so an nsIWebProgress event will work too
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# [05:30] <pcwalton> my use case here is that, upon navigation in Fennec, I'd like to suppress all draw events (perhaps by making the browser element invisible) until we've processed the MobileSafari-style <meta viewport> tag, if there is one
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# [05:30] <pcwalton> currently we get jumpiness because we start rendering before <meta viewport> is processed
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# [05:31] <pcwalton> I could blank out the browser between pagehide and processing of the meta tag, but that would be showing more of a blank screen than necessary to the user
# [05:31] <pcwalton> because it seems that the navigated-from page remains on the screen for some time after pagehide
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# [05:47] <khuey> bz: it appears that way
# [05:47] <Callek> khuey: hrm, interesting data point!!!! MSVC2010 actually lets us compile!!!
# [05:47] <khuey> and yes, those are the solutions
# [05:47] <khuey> bz: or we could upgrade the compiler ;-)
# [05:47] <khuey> Callek: w00t
# [05:48] <Callek> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&pusher=bmo@edmorley.co.uk
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# [05:48] <Callek> khuey: I think thats a good sign of a "we'll convince Product that the benefits are very very tangible for Fx11
# [05:48] <Callek> :-)
# [05:48] <@bz> khuey: I'm all for that
# [05:48] <Callek> and a bad sign for SeaMonkey as well :-) (since it means I need to get the MSVC2010 setup sooner)
# [05:49] <Callek> though now, I am _much_ closer to having at least a few working machines to compile it on
# [05:49] <philor> given a reftest log, can I tell whether or not it was running with hw accelleration?
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# [05:51] <khuey> Callek: being able to compile the browser would be a nice feature
# [05:51] <Callek> I agree
# [05:51] <Callek> :-)
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# [06:07] <philor> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Beta&rev=bccd17f22cc3
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# [06:07] <philor> the threat of brendan behind a push still holds some sway over the randomness of our tests
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# [06:13] <@bz> philor: lol
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# [06:16] <reuben> I like how the "Cancel all builds" confirmation dialog gives you options "Cancel" and "OK"
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# [06:16] <reuben> the only safe option is closing the page
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# [06:16] <heycam> ha
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# [06:21] <philor> be nice if it would give the options "Don't cancel" and "On second thought, don't cancel"
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# [06:22] <philor> builds-on-try I'm pretty sure are safe to cancel, builds elsewhere and tests everywhere the button should be labelled "Screw up someone else"
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# [06:23] <heycam> the button is only enabled on try no?
# [06:23] <heycam> I guess you can always do it through the self serve page
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# [06:23] <philor> the big red button, yeah, but self-serve and per-build buttons are everywhere
# [06:23] <heycam> ah right
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# [06:31] * philor matches up some slavenames
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# [06:34] <philor> yeah: you push to try, -a, Linux and Android build first, you get a failure on Linux so you're done with the push and hit the big red button, killing the 32 running Android tests jobs, and every one of those is a candidate for me to wind up starring it as bug 687098 on a non-try job
# [06:36] <jesup> FYI, Heads-Up - I won't repeat it all from #moco, but anyone trying to restore imap mail using the sequence given by IT should be cautious if you use Thunderbird - adding a second account to the same server, even if you've renamed the first account and changed the server, causes the two accounts to be semi-linked - both will have the same name, both will access the same server (which can...
# [06:36] <jesup> ...cause the saved email in the account to go poof)
# [06:36] <jesup> Apparent bug in tbird. I'll file once I manage to somehow sneak my email out of my backup profile
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# [06:39] <jesup> And here I was thinking I'd avoided the worst of it by keeping local copies of moco email... I think this tears it - time to go back to Emacs + Gnus for email, and party like it's 1994! ;-) (I was already pained by trying to interact with ascii-only mailing lists in tbird)
# [06:41] * jesup was experimenting with using tbird for work email after 16 or so years of Gnus
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# [06:42] <dvander`home> jesup: where did these instructions appear?
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# [06:43] <jesup> https://mana.mozilla.org/wiki/display/DESKTOP/Restoring+Email+for+IMAP
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# [06:43] <dvander`home> thanks
# [06:44] <jesup> Aha. They've changed the instructions
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# [06:45] <jesup> The new instructions look better
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# [06:47] <jesup> dvander`home: Looks like guillermo reworked it after my restore blew up
# [06:50] <jesup> Though how you start thunderbird without letting it access the server ("From the File menu" - how do you get to the File menu without starting it and having it contact the server, unless you edit the prefs.js file) - I recommend pulling the network cable before starting it until you're in offline mode
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# [06:57] <Callek> jesup: I usually unplug my router entirely :-)
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# [06:57] <philor> nice, only 4 of 6 red in https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=e2ca2498c427
# [06:58] <JonathanS> Callek, like big old Linksys in South Park? :P
# [06:58] <philor> every witch I've drowned in the ducking stool this week: sorry about that
# [06:59] <Callek> philor: of course, we have the nice 6/6 green with the same cset on MSVC2010
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# [07:04] <philor> and, woo, we can burn m-c by merging
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# [07:37] <reed> anybody have the bug # for why firefox now spawns lots of processes?
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# [08:06] <squib> is there any developer documentation on XUL arrowboxes? (i'm assuming that's what hold the larry security popup)
# [08:07] <darktrojan> they're called doorhangers
# [08:07] <darktrojan> because they really look like them...
# [08:08] <darktrojan> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Using_popup_notifications
# [08:08] <squib> darktrojan: i thought doorhangers were a subset of them
# [08:08] <squib> i ask because i don't think Thunderbird has doorhangers, but it should have arrowboxes
# [08:09] <darktrojan> I don't recall seeing any
# [08:09] <darktrojan> but yeah, it should be capable
# [08:09] <squib> well that's what i mean
# [08:10] <squib> it should be able to use XUL's <arrowbox> node
# [08:10] * jesup thinks he finally recovered all his email \o/
# [08:10] <squib> i wanted to see if we could make the S/MIME UI in Thunderbird use a larry-like doorhanger/arrowbox
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# [08:16] <jesup> I needed this tonight dealing with email (and I'm sure lots of mozillians needed it far more than I over the last week): http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150428947888360&set=a.379473193359.158222.290539813359&type=1&permPage=1
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# [08:22] <Callek> jesup++
# [08:23] <Callek> jesup: well other than the fact that you linked to a FB page for that photo
# [08:23] <jesup> Yeah, sorry, that's how it was shared with me
# [08:24] <Callek> jesup: actual comic at http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/
# [08:24] <Callek> and yes I've been following that for a while, (but I admit, its very mac-fanboy heavy)
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# [08:48] <jesup> Cool, thanks. Try this instead: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1014.html (Man do they have a lot of ads!!!)
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# [10:05] <Callek> glandium: it could also be that MSVC2010 just makes better use of a disk-cache in a mem-pressure situation
# [10:05] <Callek> and not "better at memory in general"
# [10:05] <Callek> but yea, its looking like our best option is switching to that in Fx11 and doing an ad-hoc code freeze now
# [10:05] <Callek> (or shipping with no PGO)
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# [10:36] <PLuS> Hi, I'm writing a command-line program using C++ in non-graphical linux environment and need to parse HTML (with JavaScript and CSS) from string and get a DOM tree from that (DOM should be affected by CSS and JavaScript as well), can gecko do such a thing? If yes, please help me how, thanks in advance.
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# [10:41] <PLuS> can anyone help?
# [10:42] <Callek> you'll have a lot of work to coerce gecko to do anything for your needs it sounds like
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# [10:43] <Callek> especially since internally Gecko DOM knows nothing about the CSS that is applied to it, and JS is only executed after the DOM is constructed, and of course can be branched based on Display Attributes after the CSS is applied to the nodes
# [10:46] <PLuS> Is there any API manual or such a thing which can help me?
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# [10:49] * Callek doesn't know of one, but I'm also not a core Gecko Developer
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# [11:00] <mcpherrin> PLuS: Maybe look at http://simile.mit.edu/wiki/Crowbar
# [11:01] <PLuS> mcpherrin, seems interesting, thanks
# [11:02] <mcpherrin> PLuS: I think it still requires an X-server though
# [11:03] <mcpherrin> PLuS: You could use Xvfb though, but it's not a very good solution.
# [11:04] <PLuS> there is no problem if it requires X-Server, as I can use Xvfb for that, the main problem is that if it is possible or not, and If yes, how.
# [11:07] <PLuS> mcpherrin, Crowbar does not look like what I want, because it is not a C/C++ application, I want my C++ code to access DOM Tree
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# [11:17] <mcpherrin> PLuS: The easiest approach if you're starting from scratch would possibly be to build a Firefox addon that does whatever automation you want, and just run firefox in an Xvfb.
# [11:18] <mcpherrin> you can write addons in C++ if you want. (For DOM manipulation I suspect JS would be easier though.....)
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# [11:20] <PLuS> Yes, I can write addons, but I don't want an addon, I want somehow gecko be an addon inside my code, something like HTML-Parser and JavaScript runner.
# [11:21] <mcpherrin> You could certainly try.
# [11:21] <mcpherrin> It'll be orders of magnitude more work than what I suggested though.
# [11:21] <mcpherrin> (... Probably, mostly because that use case isn't documented)
# [11:22] <mcpherrin> You could just write an addon that provides the API you call from another program.
# [11:22] <PLuS> yes, the main problem is that there is no document for gecko (at least I can't find)
# [11:23] <mcpherrin> developer.mozilla.org has all the docs
# [11:23] <PLuS> writing addon is not a clean way of doing what I want, it just gets the work done, not a good way
# [11:24] <PLuS> but I couldn't find document for using gecko as a lib
# [11:24] <mcpherrin> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Gecko_Embedding_Basics
# [11:25] <mcpherrin> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XULRunner is the more supported way of developing gecko-based applications
# [11:25] <PLuS> I'll read it once more to see if I can get what I want to, thanks
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# [11:55] <decoder> bz: ping whenever you get back and have time =)
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# [12:05] <glandium> Callek: another possibility is to move stuff that we don't really need to be in libxul in a component. Like webm, ogg and other media stuff
# [12:06] <Ms2ger> We need that stuff to be in libxul
# [12:06] <Callek> glandium: it is possible, but it sounds more dangerous :-)
# [12:06] <glandium> Ms2ger: no we don't
# [12:07] <Callek> glandium: we could of course turn off IPC and accessibility if we wanted, and that should free up enough space that the linker continues, right?
# [12:08] * Callek knows those two things are both a "ummm, no." as far as turning off
# [12:08] <glandium> Callek: I wonder if the linker would behave better with intermediate libraries. I pushed something to try in that effect.
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# [12:09] <Callek> glandium: ahhhh well theres an idea
# [12:09] <Callek> glandium: if that works, I'll owe you a beer, fwiw
# [12:10] <Callek> glandium: remember of course, this is PGO=1 ;-) and if it works on try basic, push it with PGO=1 and run at least 6 PGO builds on win opt of it
# [12:10] <Callek> :-)
# [12:10] <Callek> so we can get an idea if it helps this case
# [12:11] <glandium> Callek: well first i want to see if it builds at all. I know it fails to build on linux
# [12:11] <Callek> of course :-)
# [12:11] <Callek> but who needs Firefox to build on linux anyway?
# [12:11] <glandium> fortunately, it it fails to build, it will do so in the first pass. no need to wait 4 hours :)
# [12:13] <lurking_work> Callek: the same argument was made last night about who needs Firefox on Windows :)
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# [12:14] <lurking_work> My question still remains is PGO enough of a perf gain to just not turn it off until MSVC2010 can be brought up in production
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# [12:17] <glandium> lurking_work: between 5% and 20% perf win on all our talos tests
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# [12:19] <lurking_work> wow, didn't really know what numbers were - from an end-user point of view though I can't tell much difference in day-to-day browsing in perf if I run a PGO Nightly or an hourly that is non-PGO
# [12:19] <glandium> Callek: another option would be to disable some of the big chunks that landed recently, like SPDY
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# [12:19] <glandium> s/disable/delay/
# [12:20] <lurking_work> glandium: even that didn't prove out in tests according to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709193#c15
# [12:20] <lurking_work> only 1 green build of 6 with the backout
# [12:20] <glandium> lurking_work: that was SPS, not SPDY
# [12:21] * lurking_work cleans glasses and shuts-up :P
# [12:21] <glandium> SPDY is slightly older
# [12:21] <glandium> bug 528288
# [12:22] <lurking_work> that would make sense to try delaying SPDY then since its not widely used at the moment
# [12:22] <glandium> (if it helps)
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# [12:23] <Ms2ger> Sounds like it's worth a try
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# [12:43] <khuey> glandium: it's more than 20%
# [12:43] <khuey> the last time we accidentally turned it off we saw 70% regressions on some of the tests
# [12:44] <glandium> khuey: i don't remember such framatic numbers
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# [12:51] <khuey> glandium: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.tree-management/msg/e70cc0ef2e6e6614
# [12:51] <khuey> that was the last time we accidentally turned it off, iirc
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# [12:52] <glandium> khuey: that was removing optimization completely, iirc, not just disabling pgo
# [12:52] <khuey> ah
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# [12:55] <decoder> this somehow looks strange to me: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1399892 (I unfolded the DOM_CLASSINFO_MAP_END macro in the code to see better what it's complaining about)
# [12:55] <decoder> isn't ArrayLength resolved at compile time?
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# [13:03] <NeilAway> decoder: no
# [13:03] <NeilAway> decoder: well, depends on when during the compile
# [13:04] <NeilAway> decoder: it's resolved at optimise time ;-)
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# [13:08] <decoder> NeilAway: okay. in this case count seems screwed up right? so that would be an error during compile/optimise?
# [13:11] <decoder> NeilAway: the interesting thing about the huge number is that it looks like an address: 0x7ffffff22c40
# [13:11] <decoder> and when I read that address
# [13:11] <decoder> (gdb) x /4bx 0x7ffffff22c40
# [13:11] <decoder> 0x7ffffff22c40: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x00
# [13:11] <decoder> that is 8. and thats the length
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# [13:13] <Callek> mak: I can't pretend to speak for RelEng, but doing 32-bit builds on win64 is non-trivial, and we haev very few win64 build machines at present
# [13:13] <mak> non trivial?
# [13:13] <mak> this is not about making 32 bit builds with a 64 bit compiler
# [13:14] * jlebar|dinner is now known as jlebar
# [13:16] <Callek> mak: meaning install 32 bit binaries on the 64 bit OS + deploying it (there is *no* automated deploy scheme for win64)
# [13:16] <Callek> + bring up the additional win64 machines so we can meet demand
# [13:17] <Callek> + test that none of the build automation makes assumptions when its run on win64 etc
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# [13:18] <mak> well, if the alternative is to keep the tree close it may be a payable price
# [13:18] <Callek> mak: nevermind that we can't (easily) share win64 builders with "build 32 bit builds on win64" given the mozbuild environ differences with MSVC/tools/etc. (dooable, just also not magically easy)
# [13:19] <Callek> yea, as I said I can't speak for feasability/desireability for Releng on this, just that I know its not the simplest solution
# [13:19] <mak> updating OS on the old boxes could be an option
# [13:20] <mak> what's the simplest solution?
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# [13:21] <edmorley> in order of ease, perhaps: 1) backing out a few of the large things that landed recently (SPS for windows, SPDY) just to get use green
# [13:21] <mak> in a week we may be again at the same point
# [13:21] <edmorley> 2) switching back to PGO on every push, so when we hit the wall again, it's easier to spot before 20 changesets pass
# [13:21] <mak> and?
# [13:21] <edmorley> 3) at uplift switching to msvc2010
# [13:22] <edmorley> as khuey's original plan
# [13:22] <Callek> mak: my theory: backout the _largish_ stuff for FX11, and switch to MSVC2010 first few days after FX12
# [13:22] <mak> we can't ensure to reach that point by backing out
# [13:22] <mak> while we could ensure that by having more addressable virtual space
# [13:22] <Callek> but yea, its just my theory, and the MSVC2010 needs product signoff, since it obsoletes old XP SP(1) and w2k9
# [13:23] <Callek> s/9/0/
# [13:23] <edmorley> 4) in parallel with all of the above, have people working on (a) removing unused components that are still being built, and (b) looking into the win64 builders situ
# [13:24] <edmorley> Callek: I didn't realise people were against it when khuey raised it at the meeting a few weeks ago
# [13:25] * Ms2ger has a look at the dead code bug again
# [13:25] <Callek> edmorley: from my planning readings I have taken it to be "we need moar data" "we can't remove support for those OSs until we have more data; we can't commit to a date until we have more data"
# [13:25] <Callek> ... "When will we have more data"....
# [13:26] <Callek> "We can't tell what SP of an XP user is on until Firefox 10"
# [13:26] <Callek> iirc
# [13:26] <mak> Sure there are various things we may do to have a week or 2 of space, but the only thing that can bring us to msvc2010 imo is to have all 4GB addressable... unless glandium's experiments bring some miracle to the table
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# [13:27] <Ms2ger> 4b) Remove the old HTML parser
# [13:27] <mak> hsivonen is working on that, isn't he
# [13:28] <Ms2ger> He has been for quite a while :)
# [13:28] <mak> indeed
# [13:28] <wg9s> I winoder if just turning off pgo for some components would help.
# [13:28] <wg9s> no sense in pgoing the old parser.
# [13:28] <Callek> wg9s: PGO affects all of a dll
# [13:28] <Callek> aiui
# [13:28] <edmorley> wg9s: in this case the whole of libxul
# [13:29] <khuey> Callek: 9
# [13:29] <khuey> we backported that patch another release
# [13:29] <Callek> khuey: ooo I didn't know it got backported, yay
# [13:29] <khuey> but we're still several weeks off from having data
# [13:29] <Callek> so we might have at least some more data sooner
# [13:29] <Callek> but we won't have enough data on day 1, for sure
# [13:29] <Callek> at least not to suite what Asa was asking for
# [13:29] <mak> Callek: btw regarding bringing out more win64 boxes, we may temporarily stop doing win64 builds and reuse those for pgo
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# [13:30] <mak> we don't release win64 yet
# [13:30] <Ms2ger> And only Armen cares about them
# [13:30] <edmorley> poor Armen
# [13:30] <lurking_work> and a couple thousand nightly users
# [13:30] <Callek> mak: I do agree its an option; I'm just mentioning I mostly feel that its more work that is helpful for this in the short-term we need this fix
# [13:30] <edmorley> ...who don't realise x64 is slower
# [13:31] <edmorley> (since the nightly page does not really make it clear)
# [13:31] <lurking_work> yeah, but the 64 bit die-hards refuse to give up trying :)
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# [13:31] <Callek> s/more work that is/more work tha*n* is/
# [13:31] <mak> Callek: sorry, I never did releng and I may miss stuff, to me was looking easy to switch the target in the mozconfig to 32 bit and have them build :/
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# [13:32] <Callek> mak: need to test (a) installing 32 bit binaries onto win64 (especially making sure that they work flawlessly side-by-side with already installed x64 versions of the same stuff)
# [13:32] <Callek> mak: test that (b) there is no assumptions in x64 build automation that frak something up
# [13:32] <mak> don't we all use win7 64 and make 32 bit builds?
# [13:32] <khuey> yes
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# [13:33] <Callek> mak: Binscope 32-bit side by side with Binscope 64 bit
# [13:33] <khuey> a) the build machines aren't win7
# [13:33] <Callek> MSVC 32 bit side by side with MSVC 64 bit, etc.
# [13:33] <khuey> b) the 64 bit build machines might not even have MSVC 2005 installed (x64 builds used 2008)
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# [13:33] <khuey> c) you need to test shit before you push it live ;-)
# [13:33] <khuey> (there may be other things I haven't considered)
# [13:34] <Callek> (c) making sure that launching buildbot/systems in the 64 bit MozBuild environ script, doesn't break *our* automation scarily when run against 32 bit compile/binaries/etc.
# [13:34] <Callek> mak: not trivial, but might be worth it
# [13:35] <Callek> mak: it *is* trivial if you "do it and forget it" and don't really care how things work out btw :-P
# [13:35] <mak> indeed I don't care :p
# [13:36] <Callek> mak: also fwiw ALL of our current (32 bit) [windows] builders/automation run on win2k3; while our 64 bit stuff runs on win7, iirc
# [13:36] <Callek> err take that back, w2k8
# [13:36] <Callek> mak: which could be a can of worms with automation/installs/etc. in and of itself
# [13:37] <mak> ok, btw glandium
# [13:37] <Callek> for example, different system library symbols :-)
# [13:37] <mak> glandium's experiment failed, looks like
# [13:37] <Callek> mak: failed, or failed to compile?
# [13:38] <mak> good question
# [13:38] <Callek> note that his expiriment could easily take some tweaking before its proven
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# [13:38] <lurking_work> looking out a couple weeks - given the recent outages , drive fails, email - network issues and now this - what impact if any will all this have on the dec 20th roll-up
# [13:38] <mak> failed to compile
# [13:38] <Callek> (and he mentioned that it failed to compile on linux already)
# [13:38] <Callek> lurking_work: none
# [13:38] <lurking_work> good
# [13:39] * Callek says optimistically
# [13:39] <glandium> mak, Called: failed to compile at all
# [13:39] <Callek> lurking_work: note: I'm not authorative, so someone who *is* could decide differently
# [13:39] <lurking_work> worst case, nightly 11.0a1 users won't see 12.0a1 for a bit
# [13:39] <lurking_work> yes, I understand
# [13:40] <mak> ugh, closing the tree for 10 days would be really bad
# [13:40] <glandium> can't make sense of the error :-/
# [13:40] <lurking_work> don't think anyone said it would be closed for 10 days, just long term worst case speculation, mostly on my part
# [13:40] <edmorley> we could leave SPS and SPDY landed, but just ifeq out for windows maybe
# [13:40] <wg9s> well probably will see 12.0.a1 but code would be the same except for version bump.
# [13:41] <lurking_work> indeed
# [13:41] <mak> edmorley: sure, we just don't have any clue how long it will last. but it's feasible
# [13:42] <edmorley> mak: as long as it lasts longer than 10 days + however long it takes to get enough stats about service pack version
# [13:42] <Callek> edmorley: from my skim of SPDY backout I don't *think* ifdef's make as much sense
# [13:42] <edmorley> mak: plus if we switched back to always PGO, then we'd spot the failures sooner and just back out the new code landing
# [13:43] <mak> my suggestion to do pgo when matters would be better imo, if it's not too hard to have that hook
# [13:43] <edmorley> yeah or that
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# [13:43] <mak> or more safely skip pgo when doesn't matter
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# [13:44] <msucan> hello everyone
# [13:44] <edmorley> I mean at this point, the priority needs to be getting us green, so we can reopen the tree, so that at least fixes can land, even if whole new features can't
# [13:44] <msucan> is there a way to prevent right-clicks from moving the caret inside a contenteditable?
# [13:45] <msucan> i tried ev.preventDefault() in mousedown and contextmenu events. no luck
# [13:45] <mak> btw you should use .defaultPrevented afaik
# [13:45] <msucan> mak: that is to check if the default action was prevented
# [13:46] <msucan> i want to prevent it from happening
# [13:46] <msucan> (iianm)
# [13:46] <mak> ehr sorry, I misread that
# [13:46] <Callek> mak: .defaultPrevented is trunk only I think
# [13:46] <mak> Callek: yes, likely, btw was the wrong answer :)
# [13:46] <msucan> Callek: trunk i am interested of ;)
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# [13:47] <Callek> msucan: well the "older" way is still there just deprecated :-)
# [13:47] <msucan> Callek: which older way do you mean?
# [13:47] <Callek> msucan: well I only know if it because of: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708703
# [13:48] <Callek> which should give you a trail of breadcrumbs to find more info
# [13:48] <mak> msucan: are you in capture or bubble phase?
# [13:48] <msucan> mak: bubble
# [13:48] <msucan> mak: i thought of capture. shall i use capture to do preventDefault()?
# [13:48] <mak> maybe you may try preventing in capture phase
# [13:48] <msucan> ok
# [13:48] <msucan> will do
# [13:48] <mak> I don't know throwing out ideas
# [13:49] <msucan> Callek: ahh, thanks. yeah, i didn't know of getPreventDefault(). i only knew of the standard .defaultPrevented
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# [13:52] * mak would like to know why a try build posted 17 times its results to a bug
# [13:53] <mak> see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704855#c14 and next ones... crazy
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# [13:53] <evilpie> i need help finding the bugzilla graphs
# [13:54] <evilpie> my google skills are failing for me
# [13:55] <edmorley> mak, glandium: graphite2 landing probably hasn't helped either, is maybe why backing out ehsan didn't work, since a whole load added since
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# [14:01] <glandium> edmorley: ah waw yeah, it's massive
# [14:01] <glandium> 72 files changed, 16165 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
# [14:01] <glandium> for the main changeset
# [14:01] <edmorley> least it has a pref we can flip
# [14:03] <glandium> yeah, it's easy to remove
# [14:04] <lurking_work> pardon my ignorance, but what's graphite2 do ?
# [14:04] <mak> lurking_work: bug 631479
# [14:04] <lurking_work> tks
# [14:05] <msucan> mak: so i tried. it doesn't work. i tried capturing, at target, and bubbling, and everything i could think of
# [14:05] <glandium> pushed to try
# [14:05] <msucan> i tried e.stopPropagation() as well (from capturing, from a parent)
# [14:05] <mak> was about to say that...
# [14:05] <msucan> coupled together with e.preventDefault()
# [14:06] <msucan> nothing
# [14:06] <msucan> mak: i tried this stuff in mousedown, mouseup, click and contextmenu events
# [14:06] <msucan> no luck whatsoever
# [14:06] <msucan> it works with textareas :)
# [14:06] <msucan> but not with contenteditables
# [14:06] <mak> sorry, can't help any further you tried all I was thinking about...
# [14:06] <mak> you need ehsan
# [14:07] <msucan> i know. but ehsan is not around :)
# [14:07] <msucan> going to eat. will try something else when i get back
# [14:07] <msucan> thanks mak for trying to help
# [14:08] <mak> heh, sorry for not having the right answer :)
# [14:08] <msucan> no probs
# [14:08] <wg9s> I presume components that are only used for migrating profiles are not included in libxul?
# [14:08] <mak> wg9s: nope, they are in browserComps.dll
# [14:09] <wg9s> Just checking.
# [14:09] <mak> or whatever is named that library
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# [14:17] <abral> i've a problem with http://trychooser.pub.build.mozilla.org/, do it work for you?
# [14:19] <Ms2ger> Didn't we kill libreg?
# [14:19] <Ms2ger> edmorley?
# [14:20] <edmorley> Ms2ger: bug 679352, suppose it can reland now
# [14:21] <mak> Callek may know?
# [14:22] <abral> Ms2ger, no the bug about libreg
# [14:22] <abral> is waiting for comm-central
# [14:22] <abral> *was waiting
# [14:22] <Ms2ger> !seen Callek
# [14:22] <firebot> callek was last seen 34 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying 'which should give you a trail of breadcrumbs to find more info' in #developers.
# [14:23] <abral> the patch doesn't apply cleanly now, but I can unbitrot it
# [14:23] <abral> if we can reland it
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# [14:30] <edmorley> abral: it might help with our current situation
# [14:31] <edmorley> and c-c only really requested we wait one cycle, and it's been longer than that
# [14:32] <abral> edmorley, ok I'll unbitrot it then
# [14:32] <abral> however, what is it needed for? I joined in the middle of the discussion
# [14:32] <edmorley> bug 709193
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# [14:34] <abral> edmorley, ok ;)
# [14:34] <khuey> we're throwing code overboard to lighten the boat
# [14:34] * edmorley changes topic to 'All trees closed for bug 709193 (possible MSVC memory boundary hit) || Next aurora uplift: 20th Dec || If you are new or want to help, see irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction'
# [14:34] * edmorley changes topic to 'All trees closed for bug 709193 (MSVC memory boundary hit) || Next aurora uplift: 20th Dec || If you are new or want to help, see irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction'
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# [14:39] <wg9s> so unbitrotting 679352 then landing on try doing 6 pgo builds etc.?
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# [14:39] <philikon> dumb c++ question: could a c-style cast like *((my_enum_type*) ptr) = bla; even be expressed as a static_cast or is this is a job for reinterpret_cast?
# [14:40] <Ms2ger> Ugh
# [14:40] <Ms2ger> What is ptr?
# [14:40] <philikon> a pointer, e.g PRInt32*
# [14:41] <khuey> that depends on what the type of ptr is
# [14:41] <khuey> I think you need reinterpret_cast there
# [14:41] * Ms2ger defers to the smart guy
# [14:41] <khuey> hmm
# [14:41] <khuey> though
# [14:42] <khuey> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/c36yw7x9%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
# [14:42] <khuey> "In general you use static_cast when you want to convert numeric data types such as enums to ints or ints to floats"
# [14:42] <philikon> except i'm converting pointers
# [14:42] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [14:42] <khuey> mmm true
# [14:42] <Ms2ger> That's static_cast<uint32_t>(some int32_t)
# [14:43] <philikon> compiler doesn't like static_cast, but it's ok with reinterpret_cast
# [14:43] * Ms2ger gets used to the nice new world
# [14:43] <philikon> (it just so happens that i don't actually need the cast at all, but i'm just curious)
# [14:43] <derf> (my_enum_type *)ptr if ptr is PRInt32 * is almost certainly wrong.
# [14:43] <edmorley> glandium: I think disabling graphite alone won't fix, since it landed after the bustage started
# [14:43] <khuey> the fun part about that change is that we saved exactly 0 letters of typing
# [14:43] <Ms2ger> derf, why's that?
# [14:43] <edmorley> glandium: I think that graphite + ehsan's might work
# [14:43] <edmorley> then land the remove libreg for good luck + any other we can find
# [14:43] <derf> Because the size of an enum can change on different platforms.
# [14:44] <Ms2ger> khuey, it saves capital letters :)
# [14:44] <edmorley> they cost extra you know :-)
# [14:44] <Ms2ger> Especially when I forget if it's PRUint or PRUInt
# [14:45] * Ms2ger removes more code
# [14:46] * shorlander-away is now known as shorlander
# [14:47] <Ms2ger> !summon ehsan
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# [14:51] <glandium> edmorley: if graphite landed after that started, that would explain why backing out sps alone is not enough
# [14:51] <edmorley> indeed
# [14:52] <edmorley> I'm preparing a try run for graphite=1 only on non-WINNT + ehsan's backed out + PGO=1
# [14:52] <edmorley> if that goes green, I suggest we land that on inbound, then land the remove libreg patch; and at least we can merge inbound to m-c and start getting proper crash reports on mac again (fix landed on inbound only)
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# [14:54] <glandium> edmorley: how long is that going to help, though.
# [14:55] <Ms2ger> nsCOMPtr<nsIAtom> mName;
# [14:55] <Ms2ger> NS_IMETHODIMP EditAggregateTxn::SetName(nsIAtom *aName)
# [14:55] <Ms2ger> mName = do_QueryInterface(aName);
# [14:57] <edmorley> glandium: well we'll just say no large libxul landings until at least one of these pans out: (a) uplift+stats+decided to msvc2010, (b) releng is able to switch builders to x64, (c) someone comes up with some way to work around the issue (a la your experiment earlier)
# [14:57] <ewong> I just goofed... I did a |hg qfinish <patchid>|.. how do I revert the changes?
# [14:57] <khuey> hg qimport -r tip
# [14:58] <khuey> Ms2ger: that's how you addref, no? :-P
# [14:58] * Ms2ger kicks khuey
# [14:59] <ewong> khuey: thanks.. so |hg qimport -r tip| and then what do I do to get back the patch/
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# [15:01] <Ms2ger> ewong, it's a patch now
# [15:04] <Ashe> hm, anyone knows who's the guy who did the gamepad api (and if he's around?)
# [15:04] <Ashe> just wondering which API he uses to get access to the xbox button in the middle of the pad
# [15:06] <Ms2ger> ted
# [15:06] <lurking_work> he's seldom around on week-ends
# [15:07] <Ashe> ok thanks
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# [15:12] <ewong> Ms2ger: so hg qpop -a will work?
# [15:12] <Ms2ger> Just for the one patch, yes
# [15:13] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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# [15:18] <lurking_work> hmm, nice shade of red http://www.weather.gov.hk/gts/hksm/astrophoto.htm
# [15:19] <ewong> thanks
# [15:19] <lurking_work> lunar eclipse total
# [15:20] * khuey wonders what it would take to get dolske to finish 559505
# [15:20] * lurking_work probably 10 lbs of bacon
# [15:23] <khuey> we could arrange for that
# [15:24] <khuey> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=651051#c1
# [15:24] <khuey> Pike++
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# [15:29] <Ms2ger> Pike--
# [15:30] <jesup> ewong: or hg qimport - it can pull the last changeset off back into a patch - see the docs
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# [15:33] <Ms2ger> jesup, hmm? That's what khuey suggested, no?
# [15:33] <jesup> Aha - missed his message. It's early. sorry
# [15:33] <erione> msucan: i am getting this type of errors (like function not found or not defined) - http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1399965
# [15:34] <erione> when i run the tests
# [15:34] <jesup> Trying to read through the glare on the screen from the sun
# [15:35] <msucan> erione: the function not defined errors are expected errors
# [15:35] <msucan> those tests specifically throw out errors
# [15:35] <msucan> ignore those cases
# [15:35] <erione> ok
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# [15:36] <erione> msucan: i see all errors are of type function not defined or not found
# [15:37] <erione> let me rerun the test again and check anything comes up specifically related to this bug
# [15:37] <erione> otherwise i'll upload the patch
# [15:37] <msucan> erione: i see TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/browser/browser/devtools/webconsole/test/browser/browser_gcli_integrate.js | Completion for "he" - Got eh, expected help
# [15:37] <erione> yes
# [15:37] <erione> but when i run this test individually
# [15:38] <erione> test is simply passed without such failure
# [15:38] <abral> I've unbitrotted the first patch, I'm proceeding with the second
# [15:38] <erione> msucan: so i am checking whats wrong with this
# [15:38] <msucan> erione: it could be some broken state from a previous test
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# [15:39] <msucan> the other day i was playing with some new developer tool that is going to land soon, and that tool broke the web console
# [15:39] <msucan> while it never really touched the web console code nor its tests
# [15:39] <msucan> things like that happen sometimes..
# [15:39] <erione> msucan: hmm
# [15:39] <erione> so what should i do for this particular failure?
# [15:40] <msucan> erione: investigate why that function doesn't do what is expected ...
# [15:40] <erione> ok fine
# [15:41] <ewong> jesup: thanks
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# [15:50] <Ms2ger> 28 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 387 deletions(-)
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# [15:50] * Ms2ger looks for reviewers
# [15:51] <edmorley> sparky :-)
# [15:51] <Ms2ger> Heh
# [15:52] <Ms2ger> I'd take your review :)
# [15:52] * edmorley changes topic to 'All trees closed for bug 709193 (MSVC virtual address space limit hit) || Next aurora uplift: 20th Dec || If you are new or want to help, see irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction'
# [15:52] <abral> I've unbitrotted the patches
# [15:52] <edmorley> Ms2ger: I'm not a peer :-)
# [15:52] <edmorley> abral++
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# [15:52] <abral> I've done a small change in a makefile
# [15:52] <abral> that has to be checked
# [15:53] <Ms2ger> khuey will be happy to :)
# [15:55] <Ms2ger> Also, why do we have a set of atoms at nsEditProperty?
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# Session Close: Sat Dec 10 16:01:33 2011
#
# Session Start: Sat Dec 10 16:01:33 2011
# Session Ident: #developers
# [16:01] * Disconnected
# [16:02] * Attempting to rejoin channel #developers
# [16:02] * Rejoined channel #developers
# [16:02] * Topic is 'All trees closed for bug 709193 (MSVC virtual address space limit hit) || Next aurora uplift: 20th Dec || If you are new or want to help, see irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction'
# [16:02] * Set by edmorley on Sat Dec 10 15:46:10
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# [16:05] <edmorley> tbpl logs seem to have stopped working again
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# [16:07] <lurking_work> edmorley: looks at the number of folks dumped from IRC, looks like something hiccuped maybe
# [16:07] <edmorley> yeah
# [16:08] <evilpie> looks like europe
# [16:09] * edmorley checks he's still at home
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# [16:13] <edmorley> khuey: presuming the try run comes back green, can you rs+ https://hg.mozilla.org/try/rev/8a247ce99d61
# [16:15] <khuey> I kinda think we should turn it off across the board
# [16:15] <khuey> rather than leaving windows in a weird state
# [16:15] <edmorley> sure
# [16:17] <erione> msucan: i ran all the tests and am not getting that failure for browser_gcli_integrate.js
# [16:18] <khuey> what else can we throw overboard?
# [16:18] <khuey> looks like spdy doesn't have a kill switch :-/
# [16:19] <erione> msucan: i am not sure about these two errors - http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1399979
# [16:19] <erione> whether they are relevant or not
# [16:19] <msucan> erione: they don't look to be caused by your patch
# [16:19] <Ms2ger> Backout for not having one
# [16:20] <erione> msucan: so thats all...should i upload the final patch for the feedback?
# [16:20] <msucan> erione: sure. now you can ask for review. patches that have fix + tests are ready for review
# [16:22] <erione> msucan: i need to just select review instead of feedback?
# [16:22] <msucan> yep
# [16:23] <msucan> erione: thanks again for your contribution. your patience with this patch is awesome!
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# [16:24] <erione> msucan: and thanks to you for mentoring me :)
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# [16:24] <msucan> erione: you're welcome! my pleasure
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# [16:26] <edmorley> khuey: is it just me, or does the whole "lets use win64 builders/msvc2010" thing seem like we're avoiding the main issue which is that libxul has become somewhat bloated, and that we should maybe be more proactive (even once this is resolved) about removing old components (before merrily adding 16000 lines here and there)?
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# [16:28] <erione> msucan: uploaded for review...
# [16:28] <msucan> erione: great! i'll get to your patch asap ;)
# [16:29] <erione> ok
# [16:29] <khuey> edmorley: well, that would help too
# [16:29] <khuey> like not having 3 different 2d graphics apis in the tree ...
# [16:29] <khuey> but twiddling the build environment is easier than ripping out rdf :-)
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# [16:30] <edmorley> true
# [16:31] <edmorley> I was just hoping that this might be a good lever with which to persuade people to be more proactive in removing old stuff, which would mean not hitting this again in another year or two, faster build times, smaller binaries, lower Ts etc etc
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# [16:36] <edmorley> other than bug 559505, what else needs to be done before we can rid ourselves of RDF?
# [16:37] <evilpie> This morning, I reloaded hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound several times and was confused why nothing landed while I slept
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# [16:40] <evilpie> best quote from Code Rush: "My mother knows how to write optimizing compilers"
# [16:41] <jbuck> Ashe: if you want to chat about the gamepad api, join #paladin
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# [16:48] <edmorley> morning ehsan :-)
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# [16:50] <Ms2ger> Ah, ehsan :)
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# [16:50] <Ms2ger> Want to see some code removal in editor? :)
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# [16:51] <khuey> Ms2ger: like, rm -r editor/ ?
# [16:51] <Ms2ger> Almost
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# [16:54] <nigelb> Ms2ger, khuey - quotes.burntelectrons.org/3906
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# [16:54] <nigelb> bah, clickable - http://quotes.burntelectrons.org/3906
# [16:54] <Ms2ger> We should just get Native Firefox
# [16:55] <nigelb> written in assembly? :)
# [16:55] <Ms2ger> I'm sure the Mobile team will be happy to get rid of XUL entirely
# [16:55] <gcp> as long as you dont break plugins, go ahead :P
# [16:55] <nigelb> gcp++
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# [16:56] <nigelb> I'm not sure how the Mobile team can be happy at all.
# [16:56] <nigelb> They write Java.
# [16:56] <Ms2ger> They may be masochists?
# [16:56] <gcp> they have no choice
# [16:56] <gcp> I'm not sure I'd consider Java worse than XUL
# [16:56] * gcp ducks
# [16:57] <derf> I realize I'm a minority around here, but I like Java a heck of a lot more than JS.
# [16:57] <Ms2ger> error: no matching function for call to do_QueryInterface(nsINode*&)
# [16:57] <Ms2ger> :(
# [16:57] <khuey> *&?
# [16:58] <Ms2ger> Yeah, gcc always adds a &
# [16:58] <derf> Presumably so it can fill in the pointer for you?
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# [16:58] <Ms2ger> The signature it found was do_QueryInterface(nsISupports*)
# [16:59] <derf> That one would at least make a lot more sense.
# [16:59] <Ms2ger> Only editor didn't know nsINode inherits from nsISupports
# [17:00] <khuey> ah
# [17:00] <khuey> forward decls for hte loss
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# [17:02] <Ms2ger> Includes are worse :)
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# [17:08] <wg9s> Ms2ger: well that would mean the mobile team would actually have to get the native builds working on tablets.
# [17:09] <glandium> edmorley, Callek, mak: got a green with spdy backed out
# [17:09] <glandium> i triggered 5 more builds
# [17:10] <edmorley> khuey: I'm filing a new bug for switching to 64 bit builders, if that's ok/still wanted?
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# [17:12] <khuey> yeah, that's definitely wanted
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# [17:14] <catlee-away> that's a really big project
# [17:15] <catlee-away> I don't think we have vs2005 on our 64-bit builders
# [17:15] <catlee-away> and only have a few machines right now
# [17:16] <khuey> yeah
# [17:17] <khuey> I think the best plan going forward is to turn off enough stuff to get us past the compiler upgrade
# [17:17] <khuey> and then start doing builds with msvc2010 on 64 bit machines
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# [17:18] <smaug> I guess I'll write a generic IDL dictionary value reader generator. But since this is the first time I've written more than 5 lines python, the code will look terrible
# [17:19] <smaug> (though, perhaps python is terrible always :p )
# [17:19] <catlee-away> when is the upgrade happening?
# [17:20] <khuey> that remains to be seen
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# [17:23] <Ms2ger> smaug, not nearly as terrible as perl :)
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# [17:27] <smaug> Ms2ger: no no, perl is nice
# [17:28] <khuey> no
# [17:28] <khuey> it's really not
# [17:28] <edmorley> glandium: nice, between that (spdy backout) and https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=1cb485c4f804 we should have it covered maybe
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# [17:34] <glandium> edmorley: unsurprisingly, disabling graphite only failed
# [17:35] <Ms2ger> ehsan, ping?
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# [17:35] <derf> Perl is nice if you want to disguise some code as line noise.
# [17:36] <Ms2ger> derf is right this time, still wrong about Java :)
# [17:36] <derf> See also http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html
# [17:38] <Ms2ger> Nice
# [17:39] <nigelb> Perl is actually a pretty great language.
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# [17:39] <derf> To _write_ code in. It is, however, unreadable.
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# [17:43] <edmorley> glandium: I'm wondering how we're actually going to meter people's checkin and ensure large new landings don't occur (seeing as people now just land on inbound without reading the status etc)
# [17:43] <edmorley> checkins
# [17:44] <Ms2ger> approval requires
# [17:44] <Ms2ger> -s+d
# [17:44] <lurking_work> do like they did for awhile - check in que's
# [17:44] <lurking_work> through a sheriff
# [17:45] <edmorley> Ms2ger: yeah approval required and ; a=low-fat
# [17:45] <Ms2ger> a=code removal
# [17:45] <Ms2ger> a=diet?
# [17:45] * edmorley muses that areweslimyet.com should point to bug 709193 for the short term :-)
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# [17:47] <edmorley> no Christmas pudding for libxul...
# [17:47] <Ms2ger> Pff, who wants British pudding anyway :)
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# [17:48] <edmorley> what nationality pudding would you prefer? Belgium?
# [17:49] <bkero> blood pudding
# [17:49] <edmorley> (and yeah I don't like British Christmas pudding either, give me something chocolatey any day)
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# [17:50] <edmorley> hey philor :-) come to join the fun?
# [17:51] <Ms2ger> Belgian chocolate! :)
# [17:51] <edmorley> mmmm
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# [17:55] <philor> we're having _fun_?
# [17:56] <lurking_work> sure, its always fun watching bits-boil for 4 hours in great expectation of Greenness
# [17:56] <philor> ah, that fun
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# [18:00] * Ms2ger mistypes nsRefPtr as nsPerfPtr
# [18:06] <jdm> typedef void*& nsPtrRef
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# [18:26] <lurking_work> uh 0h - did the build break ?
# [18:26] <lurking_work> yes, we have a 'red' :(
# [18:28] <edmorley> \o/
# [18:28] <edmorley> moar backouts requried
# [18:29] <Ms2ger> Backing out native fennec wouldn't help, would it? :)
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# [18:31] <edmorley> heh :-)
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# [18:33] <nigelb> Lets back out windows support instead ;)
# [18:33] <edmorley> glandium: I've also sent graphite preffed off to try for all platforms, to check that the flag works as expected, since it was preffed on from landing
# [18:35] <edmorley> tomorrow's /. headline: "Mozilla bloats libxul so much the MSVC linker runs out of address space, proposes instead to drop windows support entirely" ...would like to see how that one played out! ;-)
# [18:35] <nigelb> heh
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# [18:36] <lurking_work> better hope that /. & reddit don't monitor this IRC
# [18:36] <Ms2ger> Asa already does
# [18:37] <lurking_work> lol
# [18:37] <zandr> Clearly we should dump xul on windows and switch to the java UI from Fennec
# [18:39] <lurking_work> does anyone know if PGO builds over the years its been used actually caused any issues (other than lack of build space) - I still think for the interim it should be disabled until the new build system can be built
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# [18:41] <Ms2ger> Oh, yes, lots of weird errors
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# [18:43] <philor> why are all the failures from the few things that have run on inbound and central "log not available"?
# [18:44] <edmorley> no idea, other than it happening around a similar time to a netsplit
# [18:46] <lurking_work> edmorley: were those clobber builds as well ? don't know if those back0uts required a clobber - I'm assuming you did that on general-principles
# [18:46] <edmorley> try is always clobber
# [18:46] <lurking_work> ahhh ok
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# [19:33] <glandium> i'm wondering. has anyone looked why exactly msvc2010 built binaries wouldn't work on < xp sp2?
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# [19:34] <glandium> a quick google search suggests that it should be possible to build with msvc2010 and still keep compatibility http://www.zachburlingame.com/2011/03/targeting-windows-2000xp-rtmxp-sp1-from-visual-studio-2010/
# [19:35] <glandium> sounds like the the only problem is the crt, and it looks like it's possible to use the 2008 one. It might even be possible to use the 2005 ones
# [19:36] <glandium> will comment on the appropriate bug
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# [19:39] * Ms2ger qrms 5000 lines of patches
# [19:39] <lurking_work> may I be a PITA again and wildly suggest that https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708937 could be involved ? It landed in the push before eshan's SPS landing - any remote possiblity at all its part of problem even though its just ifdef'ing Android ?
# [19:41] <glandium> lurking_work: nope. and it applies to files in mobile/ which aren't involved in building firefox for windows
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# [19:45] <lurking_work> ok, landings for other platforms what wind up on m-i/m-c always has confused me as to 'why are they there' - but I'm not a code/builder - nor do I even pretend to know anything about the build system - I just play devils'-advocate at times in case something might jog someones brain
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# [19:55] <ehsan> lurking_work: what's the problem?
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# [19:56] <ehsan> glandium: yes, I think the only problem is the crt
# [19:56] <ehsan> but I don't know if we want to use an older crt for compatibility with those platforms :/
# [19:56] <ehsan> since that means that some of the compiler feature would probably stop working
# [19:59] <lurking_work> ehsan: no problem, just trying to help and understand how things work - and obviously I'm in way over my level of understanding
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# [19:59] <ehsan> lurking: well, maybe I can help if you tell me what your question is :)
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# [20:08] <lurking> ehsan: I was only wondering about the landing before yours (The SPS one)that was an Android only patch it appears and my question was : why do we see landings for other platforms, i.e. Android, Fennec, etc in the Firefox tree - never understood that, other than yes I know parts of Firefox are in the other platforms code-base - - so I was just curious if there was anyway way at all that...
# [20:08] <lurking> ...landing could be related to the build issues you all are fighting - no answer is really required as I'm not a code/builder - just a tester and I enjoy helping
# [20:09] <lurking> and trying to learn some along the way
# [20:09] <ehsan> lurking: oh, ok. the code for firefox mobile is in the same code repository as firefox
# [20:09] <ehsan> you can use the same code base to build firefox for all of its supported operating systems
# [20:09] <lurking> starting to understand that - thanks
# [20:10] <ehsan> np :)
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# [20:52] <edmorley> hmmm and now a red in the spdy backout run :-/ https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=60c146c38886
# [20:53] * edmorley goes to find wall to bang head against
# [20:54] <edmorley> Ms2ger: nice work :-)
# [20:54] <Ms2ger> Hmm?
# [20:55] <edmorley> ***Ms2ger qrms 5000 lines of patches
# [20:55] <edmorley> I'm presuming removal?
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# [20:56] <Ms2ger> No, just updating my tree
# [20:57] <wg9s> edmorley: well, the un-bitrotted libreg patches are in the bug so we could just do a try build of that just to amke usre it builds on all platforms and then land the SPDY grahpite and libreg thing on inblund and pray a lot.
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# [21:57] <bjacob> what can i do about:
# [21:57] <bjacob> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1400235
# [21:57] <bjacob> ?
# [21:58] <bjacob> (build failure, android debug build, clean objdir)
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# [22:15] <wg9s> bjacob: SO the build is failing because a lock file is not present? How odd.
# [22:16] <wg9s> Or is this a the lock file is not present becuase you don;t have permission to write in that directory?
# [22:16] <bjacob> wg9s: i'm getting a different error now... see #mobile. i'm getting help anyway. thanks
# [22:16] <wg9s> OK
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# [22:27] <khuey> edmorley: so I take it we haven't come up with a series of backouts necessary to reopen the tree? :-/
# [22:28] <edmorley> khuey: backing out spdy got 5/6 green, so I'm thinking landing that + preffing off graphite on inbound, landing remove libreg once it passes try, then triggering a load of PGO builds and leaving as approval required for short term
# [22:28] <edmorley> and see how we go from there
# [22:29] <edmorley> approval required being a=code removal
# [22:29] <edmorley> or whatever
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# [22:30] <Ms2ger> If ehsan feels like reviewing some code removal... :)
# [22:30] <wg9s> edmorley: well, by backing out graphite got one green build and backing out SPDY got 5 so that gives you the 6 we were looking for (via the additive property) ;-)
# [22:30] <khuey> heh
# [22:30] <Ms2ger> Nice try :)
# [22:31] <edmorley> heh
# [22:31] <edmorley> following that, the control got 2/6 green so that's 8 greens
# [22:31] <edmorley> :P
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# [22:32] * Ms2ger approves of failing to understand fractions if it gets the tree open
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# [22:32] <wg9s> So that makes us 133% green builds
# [22:32] * rniwa notices mozilla developers are always active on weekends!
# [22:33] <lurking> Only because 'something is broken on the internet' :P
# [22:33] <wg9s> (or always punchy on weekends)
# [22:34] <rniwa> lurking: on the other hand, you can argue that something is always broken on the Internet.
# [22:34] <Ms2ger> Hmm, we shouldn't tell rniwa about our issues, he's make fun of us :)
# [22:34] <Ms2ger> he'd*
# [22:34] <rniwa> it's a permanently broken medium... or put it another way, always on "progress".
# [22:34] <rniwa> Ms2ger: it's good that you guys are fixing problems :)
# [22:34] <Ms2ger> We're backing out spdy ;)
# [22:34] <rniwa> Ms2ger: I'm sure you can find thousands of problems in WebKit.
# [22:34] <wg9s> I am not sure we boroke the Internet. I think we proved 32 bit windows should die.
# [22:35] <rniwa> Ms2ger: oops :(
# [22:35] <khuey> IIRC, chromium doesn't do PGO on windows because they're already well past the limits we're hitting ;-)
# [22:35] <Ms2ger> Because (you heard it here first) Firefox is too bloated :)
# [22:36] <wg9s> NOtice I did not say the 32-bit version of Firefox for windows should die. just the 32-bit version of the OS should die.
# [22:36] <Ms2ger> wg9s, a=me
# [22:37] <wg9s> Ms2ger: but all of the other windows applications seem to be in the same boat (or is that bloat)
# [22:37] <Ms2ger> I see what you did there
# [22:38] <edmorley> khuey: rs+ for |MOZ_GRAPHITE=| please
# [22:38] <edmorley> (if that's ok)
# [22:38] <rniwa> Ms2ger: we build on 64-bit windows and test it on 32-bit if you're hitting 4GB linking error.
# [22:38] <wg9s> Well,part of the issue is cause they make us use Lotus Notes at work, but on a 32 bit machine i can;t get NOtes and a browser to run satisfactoriy simultaneously etc.
# [22:39] <Ms2ger> That's what we're getting to, but we have only a couple of win64 builders
# [22:39] <wg9s> and the issue is unrelated to which browser i choose
# [22:39] <wg9s> same issue with recent versions of Microsoft Office.
# [22:40] <wg9s> 32-bit sindows is kind of a you should really close all the other apps when you open a new one if you really expect to have things be responsive.
# [22:40] <khuey> edmorley: if it's green on try lets do it
# [22:40] <khuey> rs=me
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# [22:40] * Ms2ger doesn't expect things to be responsive on windows
# [22:40] <edmorley> thanks
# [22:41] <wg9s> although it is not as bad if you are still running Windows/XP
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# [22:43] <wg9s> edmorley: I see you liked my idea of doing a try build of the libreg thing on all os's to make sure it at elast built without errors.
# [22:43] <Ms2ger> And it did!
# [22:45] <wg9s> edmorley: sp assuiong all the builds go green on that then it is do all of these together on inbound on a force clobber build? should not have to force PGO as it has been way over 4 hours since the last pgo build.
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# [22:53] <lurking> I know you guys are really working hard, and probably getting very tired - when when someone gets slight breather could you check on win-opt win32 N build - 1st one failed, someone kicked off another, but its been running for hours - did it grab a VM maybe or just lost in cyber-space
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# [22:53] <philor> homie don't build on no VMs no more, do he?
# [22:53] <Ms2ger> w32-ix-slave24
# [22:53] <khuey> nope
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# [22:55] <Ms2ger> make: *** [uploadsymbols] Error 1
# [22:55] <lurking> that was the failed build right ?
# [22:56] <lurking> there is a grey N still showing on tbpl
# [22:56] <Ms2ger> No, that was the red
# [22:56] <philor> but since the "running" one also "started 03:11" it's probably a lie
# [22:56] <lurking> what is the status of the 2nd kick, or is that N phoney
# [22:57] <lurking> ahhh
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# [22:58] <philor> I think the network must have had an owie around 6am, since the pgo-before-last died failing to get ahold of a signing server, and a couple of tp5s died the way nobody will believe me means they are hitting the network, and perhaps those Linux addonmgr failures too
# [22:58] <philor> so, let's have another nightly!
# [22:58] <wg9s> lurking: When we get this other issue straightened out, clobber builds will be done which (depending on how the clobber is triggered) ussually means a new nightly anyway.
# [22:58] <lurking> ok
# [22:59] <lurking> I'll long since have gone to bed before you even get enough results to kick off m-c - no big deal, but 4AM comes early, so me goes to bed early :)
# [22:59] <philor> there's no relationship between clobbering and nightly triggering
# [23:01] <wg9s> philor: well actually there is becasue some people seem to only know how to do a clobber by triggering new nightlies.
# [23:01] <wg9s> not sure if it is a they don;t know how to do it otherwise or if it is a privilege thing though.
# [23:01] <wg9s> we very often get new nightlies only becuase someone wanted to do a clobber.
# [23:02] <wg9s> And I realize there shoudl not be a relationship.
# [23:03] * Ms2ger assumes the wrong button syndrome
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# [23:03] <wg9s> I have never figured out if it is a people ahve privs to force a nightly but not to do a clobber, or people who know how to trigger a nightly and that forces a clbber and don;t know how to tgrigger a clobber without the nightly.
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# [23:08] <wg9s> all i know is this often causes the "Why was there a respin?" question on the build forums.
# [23:12] <wg9s> although I wonder if it is when a full source clobber is diesired. perhaps there is no way to do that without triggering a new nightly.
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# [23:13] <edmorley> wg9s: a few times a nightly has been deliberately generated to ensure bisect is easier 2 months down the line
# [23:13] <edmorley> bisecting
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# [23:14] <edmorley> if there were a large number of csets landing in that 24 hours period
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# [23:21] <edmorley> glandium: ping
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# [23:27] <Ms2ger> Who can review dom/plugins/base/nsNPAPIPlugin.cpp?
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# [23:30] <jdm> Ms2ger: josh?
# [23:30] <jdm> or maybe bsmedberg
# [23:31] <Ms2ger> Went for josh
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# [23:38] <edmorley> Ms2ger++
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# [23:40] <smaug> where do I find latest beta builds?
# [23:40] <Callek> edmorley: btw, yea I agree libreg doesn't need to block on c-c :-)
# [23:40] <smaug> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/ has latest aurora
# [23:40] <edmorley> Callek: :-)
# [23:41] <Callek> at least not with our current pain
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# [23:46] <smaug> what... I downloaded a build from http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/tinderbox-builds/mozilla-beta-linux64/1323478893/ and it is Aurora 9.0
# [23:49] <Callek> smaug: how is that surprising, thats mozilla-*beta* which is Fx9 right now
# [23:49] <smaug> Callek: I was expecting to get Beta, not Aurora
# [23:49] <Callek> smaug: ooo right, beta currently has aurora branding, but it is beta
# [23:50] * Callek thinks he saw a bug on that now that he sees the "Aurora" there
# [23:50] <smaug> Are we creating Aurora 9.0 and Aurora 10.0 builds
# [23:50] <Callek> Aurora 9.0 builds (which are beta-tree) are only hourlies
# [23:50] <Callek> we don't do nightlies, and don't update anyone to t hem
# [23:51] <Callek> smaug: Bug 659552
# [23:53] * Joins: smooney (smooney@moz-3C7A0050.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [23:55] * Quits: stux|away|away (stux@moz-FD6B9EC6.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout)
# [23:56] <Tobbi> Can anyone tell me why all the XUL files on https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XUL_Tutorial/More_Tree_Features give me an XML parsing error?
# [23:56] <Tobbi> (like, when I open the links to the files in a new tab)
# [23:56] <Tobbi> I really don't see that any of the XUL structure is faulty.
# [23:58] <mcpherrin> Tobbi: /win 4
# [23:58] <mcpherrin> (oops, sorry)
# [23:58] * Joins: stux|away|away (stux@moz-FD6B9EC6.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [23:58] <Tobbi> np. (whatever)
# [23:58] <smaug> Tobbi: IIRC, because you just can't load elements in XUL namespace to a content browser
# [23:59] <Tobbi> smaug, OK, but, all other remote XUL pages show a nice little error message.
# [23:59] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP)
# Session Close: Sun Dec 11 00:00:00 2011

The end :)