/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2011-12-13 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Dec 13 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #developers
# [00:00] <jhammel> reuben: oh, sorry ;)
# [00:00] <dustin> dougt: that's an instutitional issue that we can't fix right now
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# [00:00] <jlebar> What's an institutional issue?
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# [00:00] <dougt> jlebar: it is a meta meta issue. :D
# [00:00] <heycam> Ms2ger, I didn't set in-testsuite for the bugs I just touched then, you may wish to
# [00:01] <jlebar> dustin, Can you please poke someone who knows how to trim the heads, if you think that will help? It requires a downtime iirc, but try isn't really working for any of us atm.
# [00:01] <dustin> yeah, looking now
# [00:01] <dougt> i think you can just rm -rf try and copy m-c back over.
# [00:01] <Ms2ger> heycam, set them, thanks a lot
# [00:01] <dustin> coop|buildduty: I can do the server side of this
# [00:01] <heycam> Ms2ger, np
# [00:01] <dustin> coop|buildduty: but it will break the build mirrors
# [00:01] <philor> mcmanus: just stick https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/1cdb116ae0b9 in your queue, that'll be easier than updating to tip and sticking SPDY back in
# [00:01] <dustin> so I'll need to re-sync them afterward
# [00:02] <coop|buildduty> dustin: ok
# [00:02] <dustin> coop|buildduty: I think that may cause clone failures -- cool
# [00:02] <dustin> am I good to go?
# [00:02] <nthomas> dustin: did you see the doc for this already?
# [00:02] <dustin> I'm looking at *a* doc for it .. what are you indicating?
# [00:02] <nthomas> we can close try and only reopen when the mirrors are synced
# [00:03] <dustin> ah, ok
# [00:03] <khuey> well, try's already closed
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# [00:03] <dustin> let's do that
# [00:03] <dustin> ok
# [00:03] * nthomas looks for it
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# [00:04] <dustin> tell me when to start
# [00:04] <mcmanus> philor - awesome. thanks.
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# [00:10] <jhammel> anyone else getting database errors on wiki.m.o?
# [00:10] <dustin> yep
# [00:10] <jhammel> :/
# [00:10] * khuey -> out
# [00:10] <dustin> bug 709978
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# [00:11] <jhammel> dustin: you read my mind, thanks
# [00:11] <jhammel> dustin: also, get out of my head!!!
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# [00:15] <dustin> jlebar: I think the monitoring is a good idea - I just don't think it will get us the fix any quicker
# [00:15] <dustin> that's the meta-issue -- fixing hg has become a can that gets kicked down the road
# [00:16] <jlebar> dustin, I feel like monitoring would have a few benefits:
# [00:16] <dustin> but monitoring may give us the ability to tell in advance that the tree needs to be trimmed, which could help
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# [00:16] <jlebar> It would legitimize complaints -- signal that this is a real issue -- and what you said, it would be a signal that the tree needs to be trimmed.
# [00:17] <timA> joe: ping
# [00:17] <jlebar> dustin, If the can keeps being kicked down the road, maybe it's because people don't understand how bad things are?
# [00:17] <dustin> no
# [00:17] <dustin> we *know* how bad things are
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# [00:17] <jlebar> dustin, how often does try become unusable?
# [00:17] <jlebar> dustin, do you have any idea?
# [00:17] <dustin> but it's a lot of work, and it's not visible to users, so it keeps getting prioritized under more user-visible, "mission-critical" kinds of requests
# [00:17] * coop|buildduty mumbles something about fixing https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633161
# [00:17] <jlebar> (I certainly don't.)
# [00:18] <dustin> it's on the order of months
# [00:18] <jlebar> to fix hg.
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# [00:18] <coop|buildduty> jlebar: last time we have to reset the repo was two months ago
# [00:18] <jlebar> dustin, I'd really not like to have to wait months in order to have consistently-working try.
# [00:19] <dustin> coop|buildduty: yeah, that's a band-aid, but it would help
# [00:19] <coop|buildduty> dustin: i'm assuming we automate that as soon as we have it
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# [00:19] <jlebar> coop|buildduty, And part of the reason that there's no schedule for resetting the repo is because nobody has data on how often it needs to be rest!
# [00:20] <dustin> ok, try pushing again?
# [00:20] <dustin> it's reset, and mirrors re-sync'd
# [00:21] * jlebar tries
# [00:23] <jlebar> it's stuck at bundling manifests, which is further than it was last time.
# [00:23] <dustin> ok
# [00:23] <jlebar> Maybe it'll take a while because it's the first one.
# [00:24] <dustin> yep
# [00:24] <dustin> ok, cancel that
# [00:25] <dustin> it didn't re-clone m-c correctly
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# [00:25] <jlebar> dustin, killed
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# [00:27] <dustin> I think I forgot the "kill ongoing clone processes" step
# [00:27] <dustin> so there was still an open file in the old (un-trimmed) repo
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# [00:29] <joe> aw man
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# [00:37] <jlebar> dustin, I'm out for a few hours, but let me know when I can try to push to try again.
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# [00:38] <dustin> I'll get someone else to try
# [00:38] <dustin> thanks
# [00:38] <jlebar> dustin, sorry for being a pill about this. It's just no fun when it breaks.
# [00:38] <dustin> I understand
# [00:39] <dustin> it's frustrating for us to get it from both sides, though
# [00:39] <jlebar> what do you mean?
# [00:39] <dustin> "FIX THIS!" and "NONO, WORK ON MY PROJECT"
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# [00:40] <jlebar> oh. Well, that's the life of any service-provider. :)
# [00:40] <dustin> perhaps
# [00:41] <jhammel> that doesn't necessarily make it easier ;)
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# [00:41] <jlebar> For sure!
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# [00:42] <dustin> jlebar: I'd rather not have an internal adversarial arrangement
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# [00:42] <dustin> sure, you call comcast, yell, and they yell back (or ignore you), normal business practices
# [00:42] <dustin> we should be able to do better
# [00:42] <dustin> anyway, I *did* say this was a meta-issue
# [00:43] <jlebar> dustin, Sure, you guys should be able to communicate your priorities, so you can say "I can do X, but you're asking me to trade off Y".
# [00:43] <dustin> so, thanks for the apology, and I understand you're pretty frustrated too, and not getting things done
# [00:43] <dustin> yep
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# [00:43] <dustin> !s/you/all developers/g
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# [00:43] <dustin> ok, I think we're done re-trimming
# [00:43] <jlebar> dustin, But the less-meta issue is that you make what you measure.
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# [00:43] <dustin> it took longer that time - clone worked :)
# [00:44] <jlebar> heh, I'll push, and if it finishes quickly...
# [00:44] <dustin> ok
# [00:44] <dustin> yeah, in this particular case the measurements will help, which is why the bug is still open .. but stuck in the same get-to-it-someday bin as the bigger fix, sadly
# [00:44] <jlebar> I think it worked! It rejected the cset because the tree is closed.
# [00:44] <dustin> that's a start :)
# [00:44] <jlebar> dustin, Would an easier thing be to schedule regular try-trimmings?
# [00:45] <jlebar> Say, once a week?
# [00:45] <dustin> probably
# [00:45] <dustin> dunno about the frequency
# [00:45] <jlebar> dustin, I can file that bugg.
# [00:45] <dustin> ok
# [00:45] <dustin> so can we open the tree to try a push?
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# [00:45] <jlebar> Well, somewhere less than every two months, apparently.
# [00:45] <jlebar> dustin, sure.
# [00:45] <dustin> I'm worried that the hgweb will be un-synchronized like it was last time
# [00:45] <dougt> dustin: remove try's pretxnchangegroup.a_treeclosure hook
# [00:46] <dustin> ok
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# [00:48] <dustin> dougt: that's a temporary solution, right?
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# [00:52] <dustin> I see a push from smichaud
# [00:52] <dustin> in tbpl
# [00:52] <dustin> so that's good news :)
# [00:52] <jlebar|away> \o/
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# [00:53] <jimm> pile on!
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# [00:53] <jimm> woot - pushed
# [00:53] <dustin> I assume that the treeclosure hook should go back, once the tree itself is opened?
# [00:53] <dustin> who can open it?
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# [00:54] <jimm> I think I can if it's through the same interface as mc
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# [00:55] <bjacob_> can someone please watch the mozilla-beta tree for me?
# [00:55] <bjacob_> i landed 2 last minute changes
# [00:55] <bjacob_> should be safe
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# [00:55] <jimm> hmm, nope, don't know the interface uri for try
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# [00:56] <jimm> ah, capital T
# [00:56] <dao> http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/admintree.cgi?tree=Try
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# [00:57] <jcranmer> bz: ping
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# [01:00] <dustin> looks like builds are running
# [01:00] <dustin> any evidence to the contrary?
# [01:01] <dustin> (try, specifically)
# [01:01] <jlebar|away> dustin, now that I think about it, try was really fast this morning. So I suspect too many heads on try might *not* have been the problem.
# [01:01] <dustin> well, monitoring will tell us that, too :)
# [01:01] <dustin> sometimes a negative answer is still an answer
# [01:01] <jlebar|away> dustin, sure. But /me was hoping that we could trim try regularly and call it a day.
# [01:02] <jlebar|away> since monitoring is happening Someday Over the Rainbow.
# [01:03] <mbrubeck> Unfocused: ping
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# [01:05] <dougt> dustin: f' monitoring... just trim the tree. it takes no time, and it makes pushing to try faster.
# [01:05] <dougt> what is the bug #?
# [01:05] <dustin> dunno, jlebar|away filed it
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# [01:05] <dustin> it doesn't take *no* time
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# [01:06] <dustin> but yeah, it's a good option
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# [01:11] <mbrubeck> Unfocused: unping
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# [01:34] <Unfocused> mbrubeck: glad i could help!
# [01:34] <mbrubeck> :)
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# [01:41] <decoder> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Building_Firefox_with_Address_Sanitizer
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# [01:41] <decoder> horray \o/
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# [01:45] <RyanVM> so I wouldn't count on MSVC2010 buying much time on the 3GB issue
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# [01:46] * jcranmer should run Firefox under safecode
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# [01:47] <decoder> jcranmer: whats that?
# [01:48] <decoder> ah just found the website
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# [01:48] <decoder> good luck ;D
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# [01:50] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/3f0c8604e2c1 - Igor Bukanov - Bug 708382 - GC marking - one common stack and tail recurssion elimination. r=wmccloskey. a=ms2geronirc
# [01:50] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f9eee5b06c47 - Igor Bukanov - Bug 708382 - GC marking - merging string and object stacks. r=wmccloskey
# [01:50] <decoder> the cool thing about address sanitizer is, firefox really runs at usable speed with it
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# [02:00] <RyanVM> khuey: ping
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# [02:03] <bsmith> jduell: FWIW, I don't think splitting out Necko or PSM is a good idea compared to alternatives anymore
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# [02:03] <jduell> bsmith: I kinda suspected that would be the resolution.
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# [02:03] <bsmith> as I mentioned in my most recent email to dev-platform, it makes sense to split out other things that don't depend on other stuff in libxul, NSPR, or NSS
# [02:04] <bsmith> instead
# [02:04] <bsmith> insofar as splitting makes sense
# [02:04] <jduell> bsmith: makes sense to me
# [02:05] <bsmith> jduell: re: clear cache on shutdown, I think we should just disable disk cache completely in that config
# [02:05] <bsmith> it is simpler
# [02:05] <bsmith> and more effective
# [02:05] * mattwoodrow|away is now known as mattwoodrow
# [02:05] <bsmith> I think that also seems like a reasonable conclusion from the discussion
# [02:06] <bsmith> I don't think we're going to get any clearer consensus
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# [02:10] <njn> what does nsAutoPtr do?
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# [02:11] <jcranmer> it is the equivalent of auto_ptr
# [02:11] <jcranmer> which does refcounting in the object instead of the referent
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# [02:12] <njn> jcranmer: thx
# [02:12] <jcranmer> I think
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# [02:13] <jcranmer> it doesn't actually refcount
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# [02:13] <jcranmer> it just does a delete when it finishes
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# [02:15] <jduell> bsmith: bug 709262
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# [02:16] <philor> yay, we might finally have unbroken Spidermonkey builds on 10.6, though we won't actually know it
# [02:16] <bsmith> jduell: yes, I just re-found it
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# [02:18] <njn> jcranmer: so mixing nsAutoPtr and nsRefPtr sounds like a bad idea
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# [02:19] <jcranmer> we might have code which makes things work
# [02:20] <jcranmer> but I don't trust it
# [02:20] <jcranmer> offhand
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# [02:35] <mwu> hm, non-windows platform specific changes are allowed, right?
# [02:37] <mwu> eh screw it, I'll push later
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# [02:40] <mbrubeck> mwu: Yeah, if it isn't built on Windows, go ahead and push with "a=linux-only" or "a=mac-only" or whatever.
# [02:40] <mwu> mbrubeck: awesome, thanks
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# [02:41] <m_kato> Could anyone give me a+ for bug 709709? This is remove code only.
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# [02:42] <m_kato> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709709. this is remove function only from windows' widget.
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# [02:42] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/351fcbc12030 - Michael Wu - Bug 710051 - Port the android libsydneyaudio backend to gonk, r=kinetik a=gonk-only
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# [02:43] <mbrubeck> m_kato: a=mbrubeck
# [02:44] <m_kato> mbrubeck: thanks
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# [02:45] <mbrubeck> (As far as I know we haven't really discussed who has the authority to give out approvals, but I'm willing to put my name on that one.)
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# [02:54] <jcranmer> sigh
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# [02:57] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f16d056c532b - Makoto Kato - Bug 709709 - Remove unused nsDragService::GetShellVersion. r=jimm. a=mbrubeck
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# [03:06] <jcranmer> gah
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# [03:06] <jcranmer> is there a way I can break whenever a JS exception is thrown in xpcshell?
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# [03:10] <jcranmer> excuse me a moment
# [03:10] <jcranmer> I need to bash nsILoginManager in the face
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# [03:10] * KaiRo sees that the press has now found out that khuey|away confirmed that Firefox is way too fat and huge and a new, slim, alternative is needed :(
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# [03:11] <KaiRo> it's so easy to misinterpret a post that says "libxul takes too much space for linking"
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# [03:11] <jcranmer> don't worry
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# [03:12] * mwu saw comments that did libxul->xul and blamed xul
# [03:12] <jcranmer> just respond that chrome gave up trying to do that
# [03:12] <Unfocused> post anything, and the press will misinterpret it (accidentally or otherwise)
# [03:12] <jcranmer> because they ran out of space long ago
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# [03:12] <bbondy> ehsan|sheriff: MSDN doc says XP SP2 is needed for EncodePointer and DecodePointer. dumpbin /EXPORTS shows it exists on Win7 as it should, and dumpbin shows it does not exist on Win2000 SP4 as it shouldn't. I only have XP SP2 so I can't check pre SP2 of XP.
# [03:12] <jcranmer> but anyways, back to nsILoginManager
# [03:12] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: that's ok, we can just test the test app that I'm writing on win2k
# [03:12] <jcranmer> it treats "" and null as different
# [03:13] <jcranmer> I'm trying to call it from C++
# [03:13] <roc> Unfocused: true, but khuey made it a bit too easy
# [03:13] <bbondy> ehsan|sheriff: I confirmed it does not exist on win2k
# [03:13] * jcranmer goes to swear at somebody
# [03:13] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: good
# [03:13] <bbondy> k wasn't sure if you got that from my last msg :D
# [03:14] <jcranmer> what's the easiest way in C++ to pass in "null" to an AString argument?
# [03:15] <mwu> roc: hi
# [03:15] <roc> hi?
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# [03:15] <mwu> do you know anything about layout.frame_rate.precise?
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# [03:15] <KaiRo> we need to live with .planning being something where the press scrutinizes every post
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# [03:16] <dolske> jcranmer: isn't there some .isVoid or .setVoid kind of thing on nsStrings?
# [03:16] <bent> SetIsVoid/IsVoid
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# [03:17] <roc> mwu: bz does!
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# [03:17] <mwu> great!
# [03:17] <mwu> wait I don't see him
# [03:17] <dolske> jcranmer: yeah, SetIsVoid
# [03:17] <mwu> oh well.
# [03:17] <dolske> SetIsVoid(true) - Make it null. XPConnect will convert void nsAStrings to JavaScript null.
# [03:18] <jcranmer> dolske: yeah, but there's no equivalent like that for EmptyString();
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# [03:18] <roc> mwu: what do you need to know?
# [03:18] * IRCMonkey8850 is now known as bent
# [03:18] <mwu> roc: well, when we turn it on on gonk/gaia, our fps on the homescreen goes from 35 to 60
# [03:19] <roc> ok
# [03:19] <mwu> and we want to know why that is
# [03:19] * jcranmer kicks APIs that are irrationally hard to use for non-JS consumers
# [03:19] * philor rewrites his .planning reply to add even more jokes for the benefit of the press
# [03:19] <roc> philor: chaff
# [03:19] <bent> jcranmer, what are you trying to do?
# [03:19] * dolske kicks non-JS consumers. :P
# [03:19] <philor> oh, this is tree-management anyway, nobody reads that
# [03:19] <jcranmer> bent: migrate login credentials
# [03:20] <bent> with the void strings, i meant
# [03:20] <roc> mwu: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/base/nsRefreshDriver.cpp#103
# [03:20] <jcranmer> bent: it seems that nsILoginInfo differentiates between formSubmitURL being equal to "" and being equal to null
# [03:20] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: can you run exports on kernel32.dll on win2k and see if the ordinals are all sequential?
# [03:21] <roc> mwu: is that clear? :-)
# [03:21] <dolske> jcranmer: what are you migrating from?
# [03:21] <jcranmer> dolske: the old setup for NNTP credentials
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# [03:21] <bbondy> ehsan|sheriff: Yes they are, I can send you the exports list if it helps?
# [03:21] <ehsan|sheriff> nah it's ok
# [03:21] <dolske> jcranmer: oh, so from the current format to a different form?
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# [03:21] <bent> jcranmer, in c++ then you just check str.IsEmpty(), and str.IsVoid(), right?
# [03:21] <dolske> (in signons.sqlite)?
# [03:21] <jcranmer> yeah
# [03:21] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: I'm trying to figure out why the hell the ordinal array exists in the PE export table!
# [03:21] <bbondy> goes from 1 to 829
# [03:22] <jcranmer> bent: I don't need to *check* ot
# [03:22] <mwu> roc: it wasn't clear to cjones, but I'm reading the docs for the constants now..
# [03:22] <ehsan|sheriff> cause it seems to be just an array of sequential integers
# [03:22] <jcranmer> I need to *set* it
# [03:22] <dolske> jcranmer: why are you doing this in C++?
# [03:22] <bbondy> no idea
# [03:22] <ehsan|sheriff> I guess I'll just treat it as such
# [03:22] <bent> jcranmer, so, Truncate() and SetIsVoid()
# [03:22] <dolske> jcranmer: I'd suggest bumping the schema version of the DB, and writing a mirgrator (in JS!) in storage-mozStorage.js
# [03:22] <jcranmer> dolske: because this needs to be done when I'm calling a function implemented in C++?
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# [03:22] <jcranmer> dolske: it's not mozStorage
# [03:23] <jcranmer> it's passwordmgr
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# [03:23] <jcranmer> and I am *not* rewriting the password manager
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# [03:24] <jcranmer> if you're going to give me a nice init function for this
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# [03:24] <mwu> roc: hm, I guess I'm just confused about why precise isn't the default now
# [03:24] <dolske> it's all the same backend. it's a pretty simple change, but I guess I'll just go back to watching my Android reboot.
# [03:24] <jcranmer> at least make it easily callable from C++
# [03:24] <jcranmer> they could make the Init function, I don't know, check to see if I'm trying to set http realm and deduce that I want the formSubmitUrl to be null
# [03:24] <jcranmer> but no
# [03:25] <jcranmer> I have to go through the several hoops to actually set up a bloody void string
# [03:25] <jcranmer> so that xpconnect passes in null
# [03:25] <roc> mwu: PRECISE lets animations monopolize the event loop and make the browser unresponsive
# [03:25] <jcranmer> oh, and the documentation gives absolutely no indication that null and "" for formSubmitUrl are not the same thing
# [03:25] <espindola> jrmuizel, ehsan|sheriff http://llvm.org/devmtg/2011-11/videos/Carruth_ClangMapReduce-desktop.mp4
# [03:26] <jcranmer> and xpconnect will happily swallow the error that tells me what the bloody hell is wrong
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# [03:26] <jrmuizel> espindola: I'll have to take a look
# [03:26] <jcranmer> espindola: ooh, videos are up now?
# [03:26] <espindola> jcranmer, some
# [03:26] <jcranmer> \o/
# [03:26] <mwu> roc: well we're nowhere near monopolizing the event loop while drawing, yet we're not getting 60fps. wonder if we can get it to try a little harder without letting animations take over
# [03:26] <jcranmer> now the world gets to hear my voice for the first time on the world wide web
# [03:27] <jcranmer> ... I'm not sure that's a good thing
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# [03:29] <mwu> or if we're just doing something stupid on the homescreen which is interfering with the timer
# [03:29] <roc> dunno
# [03:29] <jcranmer> espindola: interesting, the mp4 is up but not the slides?
# [03:29] <mwu> ok
# [03:30] <mwu> roc: thanks for the info!
# [03:30] <roc> hey, just got spam containing a link to a Google Docs document with the actual spam body
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# [03:30] <jcranmer> . . .
# [03:30] <espindola> jcranmer, they are being uploaded right now I think
# [03:30] <jcranmer> espindola: well, most of the links for slides are actually links
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# [03:32] <bent> roc, yeah
# [03:32] <bent> roc, i got one too
# [03:32] <bent> it's evolved
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# [03:32] * bent shudders
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# [03:33] * jlebar|away got that spam too.
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# [03:41] <njn> bent: can you suggest an example webpage that uses webworkers?
# [03:41] <bent> how complicated?
# [03:41] <bent> like, demo page?
# [03:42] <bent> or serious heavy duty
# [03:42] <njn> bent: something to test some changes to the webworker memory reporter
# [03:42] <njn> so doesn't need to be heavy
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# [03:42] <Unfocused> should be something on the demos site
# [03:43] <bent> http://www.syntensity.com/static/staging/demo_worker.html
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# [03:43] <bent> that one keeps running
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# [03:45] <njn> bent: you bastard, you just crashed my Nightly :/
# [03:45] <njn> firefox: brw_eu.h:187: brw_reg brw_reg(GLuint, GLuint, GLuint, GLuint, GLuint, GLuint, GLuint, GLuint, GLuint): Assertion `nr < 128' failed.
# [03:45] <bent> er
# [03:45] <bent> oops, maybe you'd prefer one without webgl ;)
# [03:45] <njn> bent: I guess so
# [03:45] <bent> haha/sorry
# [03:45] <njn> np
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# [03:47] <bent> http://people.mozilla.org/~bturner/spaceinvaders/backgroundSpaceInvaders.html
# [03:47] <bent> that one's just canvas
# [03:49] <njn> bent: that works, thanks
# [03:49] <njn> bent: BTW, you have a review coming your way soon
# [03:49] <bent> ok
# [03:50] <njn> man, about:memory has a lot of stuff in it these days
# [03:50] <bent> njn, btw, what's the link to your crash?
# [03:50] <bent> to make sure i'm innocent
# [03:50] <njn> bent: I didn't get a link
# [03:50] <bent> hrm
# [03:51] <njn> bent: I'll take a look in a tick and file a bug
# [03:51] <Ventron> roc: i have basic rounded corner masks working, which gets rid of PushGroup. do we want to use this in any other cases, because it seems fill and stroke would always be faster than a shader approach.
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# [03:52] <roc> what do you mean by "basic rounded corner masks working"?
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# [03:53] <mbrubeck> igor: Looks like you might have some new leaks in your m-c push.
# [03:53] <Ventron> roc: where we render corners with PushGroup, i'm in the middle of replacing that with a shader. i've almost got masks working. does that make sense?
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# [03:54] <Ventron> roc: i've almost got us rendering AA rounded corners
# [03:54] <mbrubeck> leaks in OS X64 reftest, WinXP mochitest-4, and Linux mochitest-3 (n the following push)
# [03:54] <mbrubeck> ehsan|sheriff: If you are still sheriffing, might want to watch that one
# [03:55] <roc> Ventron: you mean you compute a gfxImageSurface explicitly and then call Mask() with it?
# [03:55] <mbrubeck> I'm a bit busy right now, but I'll back it out later tonight if it still looks guilty and no one else has gotten to it.
# [03:55] <ehsan|sheriff> mbrubeck: I think I need to go home soon, I'm exhausted :/
# [03:55] <Ventron> roc: yes
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# [03:55] <Ventron> roc: i don't have a pattern for it yet, just an 8 bit mask
# [03:55] <roc> ok, but I don't agree that " fill and stroke would always be faster than a shader approach"
# [03:56] <roc> a lot of borders are only 1 or 2px wide
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# [03:56] <roc> I really want to try the full-on shader approach
# [03:56] <Ventron> roc: ok, will get onto that
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# [03:57] <mbrubeck> the M4 leak is just good old 694772, of course. But the others look unfamiliar
# [03:57] <roc> the way I described in the wiki was that you'd only use masks for dotted and dashed borders
# [03:58] <Ventron> roc: oh, then what would i use for solid borders?
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# [03:58] <roc> you're reading https://wiki.mozilla.org/Gecko:CSSBorderRenderingWithShaders right?
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# [04:00] <roc> the idea there is, for rounded border corners, for each pixel, compute both "how far along the border" the pixel is and "how close to the outer border edge" it is
# [04:01] <Ventron> roc: from what i gather you want to use an ARBG32 texture for each corner and side?
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# [04:02] <roc> let's take a step back for a second
# [04:02] <Ventron> roc: sorry, it's just that i think the doc needs to be more specific
# [04:02] <roc> my basic idea here is that you can think of the border as a long strip that happens to be formed into a certain shape
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# [04:03] <Ventron> right
# [04:03] <roc> so given the x/y of a pixel, you can transform it to x',y' as if it was on the unrolled border strip
# [04:03] <roc> let's say x' is the distance along the border strip
# [04:04] <roc> y' is the distance across the border width
# [04:05] <roc> If the border width is, say, W, then in the single-color case the texture you sample from is effectively W pixels of that color with transparency everywhere else
# [04:06] <roc> assuming we snap the element's border-rect to the nearest pixel boundary, and border widths are all device pixels, then for straight sides we don't have to do any sampling or anything, because the side will just be a solid rectangle of width W
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# [04:07] <Ventron> right
# [04:07] <roc> if there are multiple border colors, and each color strip is an integer number of device pixels wide (should all be true), then that's still just N solid rectangles
# [04:07] <roc> so that's all relatively easy and fast
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# [04:08] <roc> for corners, it's harder. You have to figure out how close the pixel is to the outer edge of the border, and then use that to figure out which border color(s) the pixel belongs to
# [04:09] <roc> that's a lot more like sampling a texture. On the GPU you probably would write it as an actual texture sample operation. On the CPU it might make sense to do it that way too.
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# [04:10] <roc> i.e. set up an array of RGBA colors, then generate an index into that array --- that could be fractional. If it's fractional, take the weighted average of the closest array entries.
# [04:11] <roc> except when the colors are different on different sides, you actually need two arrays
# [04:11] <roc> one for each side
# [04:12] <roc> and take some weighted average depending on which side you're closer to
# [04:12] <Ventron> right. so back to the solid sides, it's best to just draw rectangles using cairo_fill?
# [04:12] <roc> for the sides, yes
# [04:13] <Ventron> ok, thanks for that
# [04:13] <roc> In the wiki I said "In just about all cases, we could draw the straight sides reasonably efficiently using Thebes instead of per-pixel calculations, so only corners need the full treatment."
# [04:13] <roc> that's what I meant
# [04:14] <Ventron> right
# [04:14] <roc> and as I said in the wiki, for dotted and dashed sides the fastest approach is probably not drawing lots of little dashes and dots, but using your mask code to generate an image which you then draw repeated
# [04:15] <roc> to be precise, generate a pattern that repeats an image, and use that as a mask with your border-color rectangle fills
# [04:15] <dRdR> is it just me or are try builds busted past the first page?
# [04:15] <Ventron> it blows my mind how that can be faster than stroke
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# [04:19] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: you around?
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# [04:20] <roc> Ventron: I don't know if it will be, but think about how stroke is implemented
# [04:21] <bbondy> ehsan|sheriff: yup
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# [04:22] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: I have a file ready for you to test
# [04:22] <ehsan|sheriff> I'm uploading it to my machine right now
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# [04:23] <philor> hmm, maybe I'm wrong about the foolishness of the inbound "back out everything that landed on top of bustage" rule, maybe we'd be better off learning that being backed out pointlessly isn't the end of the world, and that being sheriff is a 24/7 full time job
# [04:23] <bbondy> ehsan|sheriff: on win2k?
# [04:23] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: yes
# [04:23] <bbondy> k
# [04:23] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: I have a binary package and a source package
# [04:23] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: you should just run the binary package first
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# [04:23] <bbondy> k
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# [04:23] <ehsan|sheriff> if it works (you see a dummy white window), then my solution has worked
# [04:24] <philor> mbrubeck: I think those leaks are your bug 706517, and I think both they and it are "we leak when dns in the buildfarm is kinda busted" since in the midst of them was a talos graphserver name resolution failure
# [04:24] <ehsan|sheriff> if not, I also have a source package and I will then ask you to debug it :P
# [04:24] <bbondy> fingers crossed :)
# [04:24] <bbondy> for the debug package
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# [04:24] <catlee-away> philor: why does dns in buildfarm cause leaks?
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# [04:25] <philor> catlee-away: because we don't know how to give up? I'm no necko hacker, just a phenomenologist
# [04:25] <catlee-away> that smells of tests trying to access something remote
# [04:26] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: http://people.mozilla.org/~eakhgari/testiathook.cpp-bin.zip
# [04:26] <catlee-away> which we all know is BAD BAD BAD
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# [04:26] <Unfocused> oh yea, i have that test to fix...
# [04:26] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: http://people.mozilla.org/~eakhgari/testiathook.cpp-bin.zip is the full source package
# [04:26] <ehsan|sheriff> sorry
# [04:26] <bbondy> trying
# [04:26] <ehsan|sheriff> http://people.mozilla.org/~eakhgari/testiathook.cpp.zip
# [04:26] <philor> I don't doubt for a second that we have them again, but they could also be prefetching dns without accessing anything, I don't think we ban dns
# [04:26] <ehsan|sheriff> bbondy: send me an email when you get results?
# [04:26] * ehsan|sheriff wants to go home before 11pm :/
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# [04:27] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/aabb495e026a - Chris Peterson - Bug 708114 part 1 - Comment out Android StrictMode for all build configurations. r=dougt a=android-only
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# [04:27] <roc> Ventron: cairo's stroke code basically generates a set of polygons representing the results of dotting or dashing the path, then tesselates and fills those polygons
# [04:27] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/3c321d2c9884 - Chris Peterson - Bug 708114 part 2 - Add resource flag to enable Android StrictMode for nightly and local builds. r=dougt a=android-only
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# [04:28] <roc> Ventron: when the dots or dashes are small (say just a few pixels --- very common), that's a lot of work per pixel
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# [04:29] <roc> drawing an color using a repeating-image mask could be much less work per pixel, even on the CPU
# [04:29] <roc> we shall see
# [04:29] <Ventron> ok
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# [04:30] <bbondy> ehsan|sheriff: uh bad news, my vmx file disappeared. I'm reinstalling now but will be 20-30 min
# [04:30] <bbondy> so I suggest to go home and not wait for the result
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# [04:30] <bbondy> but I'll email you as soon as I have it tonight
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# [04:31] <bbondy> win2k.vmsd file but no win2k.vmx & no win2k.vmdk
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# [04:37] <bent> roc, btw, we landed some of your worker changes for b2g
# [04:38] <bent> the CrossThreadDispatcher thing
# [04:38] <roc> ok
# [04:40] <jduell> philor catlee-away: do we have a necko bug open for the dns leak?
# [04:41] <philor> jduell: you can have bug 706517 if you want it, I'm pretty sure nobody else will
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# [04:42] <jesup> roc: (and Ventron) there's a bug related to that where an ad would have a dotted border to a table entry - but mistakenly had the width set to something like 16 million. If it's solid, this is fine (gets clipped), but a dashed border would cause it to lock up for long periods (30 sec). (bug 635972 - my dup was bug 664071)
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# [04:44] <catlee-away> jduell: I do not
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# [04:44] <catlee-away> we ARE having network issues
# [04:44] <catlee-away> not sure if they would affect the test machines
# [04:45] <catlee-away> philor: you said you found that the test failure corresponded with another test's failure to do a graph server post due to dns failure?
# [04:45] <philor> yep
# [04:46] <roc> jesup: yeah, this will fix things like that :-)
# [04:47] <philor> the talos was 17:48-18:23, the two leaks were 17:54-18:24 and 17:43-18:22
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# [04:55] <mcpherrin> Do we have a way of converting a string like "C:\Dir\guy/bar/baz" into a proper file url? LevelDB creates filenames internally by appending "/" and I want nsIFiles for them.
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# [04:55] <mcpherrin> Note that LevelDB does consistently use /, so I've considered just constructing file:// URIs instead but that seems dumb.
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# [04:57] <philor> rats, forgot to celebrate the first birthday of bug 616085
# [04:57] <Waldo> mcpherrin: long ago I had a patch to fix bug 44959, but it stalled a bit; might be revivable with a little trouble
# [04:57] <Waldo> that'd let you just pass the weird path to nsILocalFile.initWithPath or so
# [04:57] <philor> speaking of busted dns
# [04:58] <Waldo> might have a newer version of that patch on my laptop, too, although that's getting a little iffier than just using what's posted there
# [04:59] <mcpherrin> Waldo: Passing the wierd paths to initWithPath is exactly what I'd want; I'll read the bug.
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# [05:00] <Waldo> nsLocalFileWin.cpp is unlikely to get much change, so probably whatever the most recent version of the patch is that I can dig up could be usable pretty easily
# [05:00] <Waldo> shepherding it into the tree might be harder, tho
# [05:00] <Waldo> moderate regression risk and all
# [05:01] <Waldo> I probably wouldn't land it before the next uplift, myself, but I dunno your needed time frame
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# [05:13] <jb> Hi, I have a binary XPCOM component which I compile against Gecko 7.0.1.. when I start Windows Firefox 7.0.1 it loads and then immediately unloads the component DLL, according to NSPR log
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# [05:15] <ehsan> bbondy: any results yet?
# [05:15] <jb> There are no log messages between the loading and the unloading of the DLL, so I'm not sure what is causing the DLL to be unloaded.
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# [05:16] <jb> The same component, when compile against Gecko 5.0, works fine in Firefox 5.0
# [05:16] <bbondy> ehsan|sheriff: When I run the exe it says that it is not a valid win32 application
# [05:16] <bbondy> let me tweak the build settings and try again
# [05:16] <ehsan> bbondy: oh, I forgot to adjust the minversion...
# [05:17] <ehsan> bbondy: yeah it would be awesome if you could do that
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# [05:17] <ehsan> in linker properties somewhere
# [05:17] <bbondy> ya np
# [05:17] <bbondy> downloading source
# [05:17] <bbondy> I had to reinstall my win2k vm btw so I just tried it now
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# [05:17] <bbondy> for some reason the vmdk disappeared
# [05:17] <bbondy> no idea why
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# [05:18] <ehsan> that's unfortunate
# [05:18] <bbondy> no biggy it was a fresh vm install anyway
# [05:19] <bbondy> ehsan: you didn't need ot include all the debug symbols in the zip :)
# [05:19] <ehsan> bbondy: yeah sorry, didn't have time to clean things up :/
# [05:19] <bbondy> np
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# [05:20] <jb> nvm, I found where the error is.. it was a version mismatch.. the error log is in error console instead of NSPR log file
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# [05:25] <darktrojan> bbondy, can you think of any reason a user would get a white page icon for apparently every moz-icon url?
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# [05:25] <bbondy> darktrojan: no but I did a lot of changes on icon (not moz-icon) in ff9
# [05:25] <bbondy> what version are they using?
# [05:26] <bbondy> and do you have a bugid?
# [05:26] <darktrojan> it's older than that
# [05:26] * darktrojan looks
# [05:26] <darktrojan> "I'm using Firefox 8 on Windows 7 Ultimate x64.(back then using 6.0.2)"
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# [05:27] <darktrojan> I'll see if I can find a bug
# [05:27] <bbondy> darktrojan: none of my work is in FF8 btw.
# [05:27] <bbondy> relating to icons
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# [05:27] <bbondy> I have a bug somewhere about me thinking some of our moz-icon handling is wrong but I never looked into it deeply
# [05:28] <darktrojan> you're more likely to know than anyone, I figure
# [05:29] <bbondy> darktrojan: from my todo list bug 682773 - Investigate potential Win32 moz-icon problems in FF6 (and earlier FF versions)
# [05:29] <darktrojan> hmm
# [05:30] <bbondy> could be related I guess, pls include any extra details in there or a new bug
# [05:31] <darktrojan> ok, ta
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# [05:31] <bbondy> if you post a new one pls cc me
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# [05:35] <darktrojan> bbondy, there's no way a theme could affect it, is there?
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# [05:36] * darktrojan notices this guy uses a non-default theme
# [05:36] <bbondy> darktrojan: the imagelib decoder is our own code from scratch, but the moz-icon code just uses win32 apis to generate the icon. So windows sends us chunks of data for each part of the icon and we construct it
# [05:37] <bbondy> it generates this icon data based on whatever the icon is for what you are looking at
# [05:37] <darktrojan> that's what I figured
# [05:37] <bbondy> like you can get a moz-icon for any file on disk
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# [05:37] <bbondy> darktrojan: it would be good if the user could type in the moz-icon url and save the icon
# [05:37] <bbondy> and then try to open it with firefox as an ico
# [05:38] <bbondy> and see if it works or not
# [05:38] <bbondy> and if it doesn't work you can attach it to a bug for me and I can see what type of icon it is
# [05:38] <bbondy> and how it was generated wrong
# [05:38] <bbondy> and possibly fix a bug somewhere in moz-icon code
# [05:38] <bbondy> ehsan: The earliest operating system supported by the Visual C++ 2010 run-times is Windows XP SP2, because the CRT now has a dependency on EncodePointer.
# [05:39] <bbondy> you need this test with 2010 right?
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# [05:40] <bbondy> ehsan: I think we have to use vs2008 or earlier
# [05:41] <ehsan> bbondy: my work is attempting to solve exactly that problem
# [05:41] <bbondy> trying more tweaking of subsystem
# [05:41] <ehsan> the depdenency on Encode/DecodePointer
# [05:41] <bbondy> ehsan: ah ok I figured it was around there since I remembered your previous question :)
# [05:41] <bbondy> sek let me try something
# [05:41] <ehsan> ok
# [05:43] <bbondy> ehsan: Ok I can get it to work now
# [05:43] <bbondy> but I get a new error
# [05:43] <ehsan> ?
# [05:43] <bbondy> you won't find it surprising
# [05:43] <bbondy> :)
# [05:43] <bbondy> the procedure entry point encodepointer could not be located in the dynamic link library kernel32.dll
# [05:43] <ehsan> ouch
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# [05:43] <bbondy> it actually does get past the not valid win32 now though
# [05:44] <ehsan> hmm
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# [05:44] <ehsan> bbondy: maybe we should try delayloading msvcr100.dll...
# [05:44] <ehsan> bbondy: I'm too tired now, need to look at it again tomorrow
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# [05:45] <bbondy> ehsan: ya sounds a bit messy, ping me tomorrow with details on the bug and I'll try to help out
# [05:45] <ehsan> sure
# [05:45] <ehsan> thanks!
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# [05:46] <ehsan> bbondy: btw, didn't get to look at your patches today, as I'm sure you know by now :(
# [05:46] <bbondy> ehsan: np
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# [05:48] <bbondy> ehsan: This looks like what you want
# [05:48] <bbondy> http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/how-to-get-visual-c-2010-mfc-applications-to-run-on-windows-2000/
# [05:48] <bbondy> looks like some MASM is needed :s
# [05:48] <ehsan> bbondy: nope, seen it already. it relies on linking to the crt statically
# [05:48] <bbondy> ah ok
# [05:49] <bbondy> well let's just replace kernel32.dll with our own version with the added needed extra stuff ;)
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# [05:51] <ehsan> bbondy: that's sort of what my code does, except that it injects those functions into the export table of kernel32.dll
# [05:51] <bbondy> "Create a .LIB that implements the missing functionality and link it ahead of KERNEL32.LIB.
# [05:51] <bbondy> You will need to use the linker option /NODEFAULTLIB:kernel32.lib so that you can put your w2kcompat.lib ahead of kernel32.lib. "
# [05:51] <ehsan> I really need a vm with the right os to debug this :(
# [05:51] <ehsan> bbondy: that's what my code does too
# [05:52] <ehsan> if you look at the exe file using depends.exe or something, scarydll.dll should come before msvcr100.dll
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# [05:52] <bbondy> I see
# [05:52] <ehsan> which means that its DllMain _should_ run before the loader attempts to load msvcr100.dll
# [05:52] <bbondy> scary
# [05:53] <bbondy> maybe we aren't ready for vs2010
# [05:53] <ehsan> but apparently the loader kicks in some time before that for some reason
# [05:53] <ehsan> bbondy: my goal is to make us be able to support xpsp1 and lower with vs2010
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# [05:53] <ehsan> bbondy: see the Gecko is too big thread on dev.platform for reference ;)
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# [05:54] <bbondy> 3GB thing
# [05:54] <bbondy> ?
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# [05:55] <bbondy> PGO
# [05:55] <bbondy> ya
# [05:55] <bbondy> I seen that bug pass by in bugmail
# [05:55] <ehsan> yep
# [05:56] <catlee-away> ehsan is awesome
# [05:56] <ehsan> I was trying to see if we have the choice of releasing fx11 with vs10 without dropping support for those OSes
# [05:56] <catlee-away> that's one of the reasons you're awesome
# [05:56] <ehsan> a task at which I've seemingly failed :/
# [05:57] <ehsan> catlee-away: I would feel awesome if it had actually worked :/
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# [05:57] <ehsan> anyways, I'm too tired now
# [05:57] <ehsan> I think I'll just go to sleep
# [05:58] <ehsan> and hope that the solution is revealed to me in my sleep ;)
# [05:58] <catlee-away> let's just patch the user's kernel32.dll with our new service
# [05:58] * ehsan throws his shoes at catlee-away
# [05:58] <catlee-away> it's for their own good!
# [05:58] <ehsan> who's not away apparently ;)
# [05:58] <catlee-away> am now
# [05:58] <catlee-away> bye!
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# [05:59] <ehsan> bye :)
# [05:59] <bbondy> catlee-away: unfortunately the service doesn't get installed on win2k otherwise good idea ;p
# [05:59] <bbondy> it has this reliance on EncoderPointer and DecodePointer
# [05:59] <bbondy> jk
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# [06:00] <Mook> hmm, the dll blocklisting code does weird crap with overriding LoadLibrary calls (for third-party dlls), right? can that be done for EncodePointer/DecodePointer?
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# [06:25] * gps ponders how Unfocused managed to bit rot add-on sync :/
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# [06:32] <Unfocused> gps: i have mystical powers of bitrot. just ask darktrojan
# [06:32] <nigelb> "Fear the beard"
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# [06:53] <KWierso> wow, we really are living in the future...
# [06:53] <KWierso> "This eCard is best viewed on Mozilla Firefox, Safari, Google Chrome, and Internet Explorer® 9 and above."
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# [07:10] <dolske> poor opera
# [07:10] <dolske> the rodney dangerfield of browsers.
# [07:10] <KWierso> no respect?
# [07:10] <dolske> thank you, captain obvious.
# [07:11] <KWierso> that's what I'm here for
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# [07:56] <darktrojan> gps, it's true, he does
# [07:59] <darktrojan> don't ask him for reviews, that's how he finds out what you're up to
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# [07:59] * darktrojan suspects Unfocused also watches the tryserver for stuff to bitrot
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# [08:27] <darktrojan> how can I give multiple files of one extension a different extension ('nix)?
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# [08:32] * Mook works if darktrojan means some sort of for i in *.foo ; do mv "$i" "${i##.foo}.bar"; done
# [08:32] <Mook> also, I see my last line was 4 hours late anyway :p
# [08:32] <darktrojan> yeah that's what I had in mind
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# [08:34] <darktrojan> what does the ## do, Mook ?
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# [08:36] <Mook> see https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/Shell-Parameter-Expansion.html
# [08:36] <Mook> and I used the wrong one again.. you want % or %% :p
# [08:36] <darktrojan> that'd be why it didn't work :)
# [08:37] * darktrojan bookmarks that link
# [08:37] <darktrojan> ta
# [08:37] <Mook> `info bash` is easier :p
# [08:38] <darktrojan> heh
# [08:38] <darktrojan> not as easy to read
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# [08:38] <Mook> huh, but it's the same thing (generated from the same sources, at least), and you can search across pages... I tend to avoid loading the whole-manual-in-one-page things because firefox gets slow :(
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# [08:43] <mcpherrin> Has anybody noticed our build system deciding to rebuild lots of stuff after debugging in visual studio?
# [08:44] <jhford-work> is it touching files?
# [08:45] <jhford-work> if so, could it be changing the atime/mtime and confusing make?
# [08:45] <mcpherrin> I really don't know how visual studio works. I can't imagine it would be modifying anything.
# [08:45] <mcpherrin> Does windows have atime?
# [08:45] <jhford-work> there is also a lot of cruft between make and vs
# [08:46] <mcpherrin> I am a noob with visual studio so I'm just not going to worry about it too much.
# [08:46] <jhford-work> heh
# [08:47] <mcpherrin> All I care about is it shows me my call stack and stops at my break points. I can handle some slightly-longer builds for that.
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# [10:35] <erione> msucan: ping
# [10:36] <msucan> good morning erione
# [10:37] <erione> morning,
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# [10:38] <erione> msucan: what should i do now for bug 704295
# [10:38] <erione> i mean you already granted the review
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# [10:38] <erione> msucan: now anything else to be done for it?
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# [10:41] <msucan> erione: not much else. we just need to land it!
# [10:42] <msucan> that will happen very soon
# [10:42] <Unfocused> success!
# [10:43] <erione> msucan: ok :) tell me if you need any work from my side
# [10:43] <msucan> erione: sure! if you want to take other bugs, you are welcome to do so!
# [10:43] <msucan> search for [good first bug] within the devtools components
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# [10:44] <msucan> see what you would like to work on and ping the mentor
# [10:44] <erione> msucan: ok :)
# [10:44] <erione> i've already taken one, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634827
# [10:45] <msucan> erione: awesome!
# [10:45] <erione> i'll soon start working on that
# [10:45] <msucan> good luck!
# [10:45] <erione> thanks:)
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# [10:48] <glazou> bonjour
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# [11:01] <glazou> d'oh my mac build now fails on python version
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# [11:20] <darktrojan> Unfocused, is this suitable? "// Ensure the page has loaded and the XBL bindings are applied, then notify observers."
# [11:20] <glandium> glazou: on m-c?
# [11:21] <glazou> yes
# [11:21] <glazou> found out why, python updater busted my python installation
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# [11:25] <darktrojan> is Wladimir Palant ever on irc?
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# [11:28] <glazou> glandium: has to uninstall and reinstall port packages and works now
# [11:28] <glazou> s/has/had
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# [11:31] <Unfocused> darktrojan: yep
# [11:31] <Unfocused> or "and force the XBL to be synchronously applied"
# [11:31] <Unfocused> (if that doesn't seem too verbose)
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# [11:33] <darktrojan> that works for me
# [11:33] * darktrojan edits
# [11:33] <Unfocused> r=me
# [11:36] <Unfocused> darktrojan: also a=me if you wanna land
# [11:37] * darktrojan wonders if he'll be around long enough to keep an eye on it
# [11:38] <darktrojan> ah, why not
# [11:38] * darktrojan lands
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# [11:39] * darktrojan remembers to do |hg out| comparison with m-c, not try
# [11:40] <Unfocused> heh
# [11:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/4b71b1e9cc0c - Geoff Lankow - Bug 708397 - "addon-options-displayed" notification fires before XBL bindings apply; r=Unfocused, a=Unfocused
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# [11:41] * darktrojan looks at the android j1 orange suspiciously
# [11:41] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-1.9.2/rev/ddf0ebdc4c17 - tbirdbld - Added tag THUNDERBIRD_3_1_17_BUILD1 for changeset 489b4f2582a3. CLOSED TREE a=release
# [11:41] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-1.9.2/rev/e69abda623e9 - tbirdbld - Added tag THUNDERBIRD_3_1_17_RELEASE for changeset 489b4f2582a3. CLOSED TREE a=release
# [11:44] <darktrojan> dougt, ping?
# [11:44] <Unfocused> 2.40am for him
# [11:45] <Unfocused> so... maybe
# [11:45] <darktrojan> heh
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# [11:45] <darktrojan> depends if he's as much of an owl as you are
# [11:46] <Unfocused> that's a high bar :\
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# [12:09] <mounir> NeilAway: pong
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# [12:17] <NeilAway> mounir: I think you repiled in the bug, thanks
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# [12:18] <glazou> is the information at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XULRunner/Application_Update accurate ? specifically, is --enable-update-packaging enough to build mar (on os x)?
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# [12:19] <mounir> NeilAway: which one?
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# [12:21] <NeilAway> I think it was 122213
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# [12:26] <mounir> NeilAway: hmm, I'm not even in CC of that bug
# [12:27] <NeilAway> ok, then it wasn't ;-)
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# [12:29] <mounir> NeilAway: I doubt I did reply to something you ask in a bug given that between now and the moment you pinged me I was in a plane or airport
# [12:29] <mounir> if it comes back, I'm all ears :)
# [12:30] <NeilAway> mounir: hmm, can you give me a relative timestamp for that ping? maybe I can check to see which bug I loaded
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# [12:31] <mounir> NeilAway: I think it was around 13h51 in my TZ
# [12:32] <darktrojan> heh, windows is the first to build my changes, I did not expect that
# [12:32] <Callek> darktrojan++
# [12:32] <mounir> which was ~23h ago
# [12:32] <darktrojan> linux, os x, you should be ashamed of yourselves
# [12:33] <NeilAway> mounir: ah, battery API?
# [12:34] <mounir> NeilAway: about the new/delete?
# [12:34] <darktrojan> morning Callek, up early or still up late?
# [12:34] <mounir> (I have a patch for that)
# [12:34] <Callek> darktrojan: depends what timezone you want me to pretend to be in
# [12:35] <Callek> though yesterday my time I got up at about 9:30 pm
# [12:35] <Callek> if you want context
# [12:35] <Callek> :-)
# [12:35] <darktrojan> ouch
# [12:35] <NeilAway> mounir: no, I keep hitting kUnknownRemainingTime
# [12:35] <darktrojan> see Unfocused, I knew there was someone worse than you
# [12:35] <NeilAway> mounir: I think you fixed the one in fallback hal, but I'm now seeing the one in windows hal
# [12:35] <Callek> darktrojan: but I'm missing the facial hair!
# [12:36] <darktrojan> indeed
# [12:36] <darktrojan> you should try nsIDecember
# [12:36] <NeilAway> darktrojan++
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# [12:38] <Unfocused> eh, getting up that late isn't totally unheard of for me :\
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# [12:39] <darktrojan> by then you'd have to wonder if that is getting up late, or just really early for the next day?
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# [12:39] <darktrojan> unrelated note, I wish TBPL would tell me how long something has been running, rather than that it is due any minute now
# [12:39] <darktrojan> I can do the maths, but why should I
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# [12:42] <mounir> NeilAway: what do you mean, you get the assert?
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# [12:45] <NeilAway> mounir: right
# [12:46] <NeilAway> bah, I actually had the bug open in another tab, didn't need history ;-)
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# [12:47] <NeilAway> mounir: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/hal/windows/WindowsBattery.cpp?mark=226,230#210
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# [12:48] <grubshka> Hello, does someone know how could I automatically run some commands in the shell ran by start-msvc.bat on windows?
# [12:49] <grubshka> (simpler: how can I automate builds on windows?)
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# [12:51] <NeilAway> grubshka: simpler: write your own batch file that hard-codes the paths and environment variables you need, and then directly initiates the build
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# [12:52] <grubshka> NeilAway, oh
# [12:52] <grubshka> NeilAway, ok... thanks! I was searching, how to pass parameters, etc...
# [12:53] <NeilAway> grubshka: yeah, I wouldn't bother trying to automate those batch files
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# [13:09] <mounir> NeilAway: can you file a bug?
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# [13:24] <heeen> how does firefox detect "incorrectly" speleld charsets
# [13:25] <heeen> for example iso8859-2 used instead of a correct name or alias
# [13:25] <heeen> iso-8859-2
# [13:25] <heeen> note the missing dash, space or underscore
# [13:25] <hsivonen> heeen: at least it should per spec
# [13:26] <hsivonen> hmm. unless the spec changed again
# [13:26] <heeen> http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets
# [13:26] <heeen> it has different capitalisations
# [13:26] <heeen> but all contain at least a dash or underscore after ISO
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# [13:28] <Honza> anyone knows what is the key in Windows the event.metaKey is mapped to?
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# [13:29] <hsivonen> heeen: the IANA registry isn't the whole story
# [13:30] <darktrojan> ok, that's green enough for me
# [13:30] <darktrojan> goodnight
# [13:30] <smaug> has anyone seen problems loading ssl pages?
# [13:30] <smaug> or ssl pages taking more cpu time than before
# [13:31] <smaug> mounir: has there been any plans to add b2g module to bugzilla
# [13:32] <smaug> I get lots of b2g bugmail, which isn't really about DOM module
# [13:33] <heeen> hsivonen: yep I guess you have to be more clever when you're dealing with user generated content
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# [13:34] <heeen> does gecko just regexp iso.(\d{3-5})(-\d)?
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# [13:34] <heeen> or something to that effect
# [13:34] <NeilAway> mounir: bah, I forgot to set the OS. nm
# [13:35] <NeilAway> Honza: Windows never generates events with a metaKey
# [13:35] <Honza> NeilAway: Ah, thanks!
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# [13:37] <khuey> oh my
# [13:37] <khuey> the reset try is so nice
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# [13:45] <khuey> "The sheriff begins drinking"
# [13:46] <khuey> philor++
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# [13:49] <hsivonen> heeen: Firefox has more aliases than IANA, IIRC
# [13:50] <hsivonen> heeen: FWIW, the encoding label comparison method that the Unicode Consortium specifies (the one that ignores punctuation before comparing) is not Web compatible
# [13:50] <hsivonen> heeen: Opera implemented it and had to revert
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# [13:52] <hsivonen> heeen: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/intl/locale/src/charsetalias.properties
# [13:52] <khuey> glandium: what version of mozilla-build are you using?
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# [14:00] <glob> smaug, bug 709937
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# [14:04] <khuey> anybody know how many nightly users we have?
# [14:04] <khuey> pinning it down to an order of magnitude would be fine
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# [14:07] <NeilAway> khuey: do you know how long try builds/results stay on tbpl?
# [14:07] <khuey> no
# [14:07] <khuey> I've been able to scroll back over a week before
# [14:08] <khuey> at the cost of some serious ram usage
# [14:08] <lurking_work> khuey: someone posted an ADU link the other day, but its at home :( - I want to say around 25k ADU on nightlys
# [14:08] <khuey> ok
# [14:08] <khuey> thanks
# [14:08] <NeilAway> khuey: I was just pondering whether a cron job could automatically strip heads that were over a week old or something
# [14:08] <jfkthame> am i supposed to get someone's explicit approval to land a change that only touches default prefs? (all.js)
# [14:09] <khuey> jfkthame: a=me
# [14:09] <khuey> :-)
# [14:09] <jfkthame> good enough :)
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# [14:14] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b2c3fd1b871b - Jonathan Kew - bug 703861 - add hyphenation alias for de-AT-1901. r=smontagu a=khuey
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# [14:16] <khuey> man
# [14:16] <khuey> external linkage is a PITA
# [14:17] <khuey> whose idea was this stuff :-P
# [14:19] <Callek> khuey: I know the solution to that, move everything into libxul
# [14:19] <Callek> or, ... yea :-0
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# [14:21] <gal> khuey: ping
# [14:21] <nigelb> Callek: Point well made ;)
# [14:22] <khuey> gal: pong
# [14:22] <gal> hey
# [14:22] <gal> how are our tree troubles doing?
# [14:22] <khuey> I'm a couple hours away from landing the patch to split out uconv
# [14:23] <khuey> the other patches have some test failures, I think glandium is poking at them now
# [14:23] <gal> lovely
# [14:23] <gal> thanks so much for doing this
# [14:23] <jfkthame> indeed!
# [14:24] * lurking_work thinks khuey is going to need this to break down libxul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9x8rBKC4BE
# [14:24] <khuey> I think after I land the uconv removal I'll undo what we did over the weekend
# [14:24] <khuey> (droping SPDY and graphite)
# [14:24] <khuey> and see what happens
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# [14:24] * khuey should probably do that part on inbound :-P
# [14:25] <edmorley> ^ ominous first comment to see after connecting... :-)
# [14:25] <khuey> heh
# [14:25] <khuey> [05:18:14] <khuey> I think after I land the uconv removal I'll undo what we did
# [14:25] <khuey> over the weekend
# [14:25] <khuey> [05:18:23] <khuey> (droping SPDY and graphite)
# [14:25] <khuey> [05:18:26] <khuey> and see what happens
# [14:26] <khuey> lurking_work: now that's my kind of chainsaw
# [14:26] <lurking_work> lol
# [14:26] * jfkthame wonders... i bet we could easily split OTS into a separate lib.... i should probably look into that
# [14:26] * gal would absolutely encourage that
# [14:26] <khuey> yeah
# [14:26] <khuey> we need to examine more generally what needs to be in libxul
# [14:27] <khuey> and what doesn't
# [14:27] <gal> if anyone is able to drop a few hundred kbs off this albatross, we might be able to lift off
# [14:27] <khuey> gal: uconv is enough to get us a couple hundred KB below beta
# [14:27] <gal> yeah
# [14:27] <gal> I just want the tree open
# [14:27] <khuey> me too :-
# [14:27] <gal> we can do major surgery after that
# [14:27] <khuey> )
# [14:27] <khuey> yep
# [14:27] <gal> and yeah, we shouldn't stop until we comfortably link with 1gb
# [14:27] <gal> there is way too much shit in libxul
# [14:27] <khuey> heh
# [14:27] <khuey> well
# [14:28] <khuey> that's going to be hard
# [14:28] <khuey> XPCOM stuff is pretty hard to separate out
# [14:28] <khuey> we got lucky with uconv
# [14:28] <gal> taras said in a bug we need around 20%
# [14:28] <khuey> it has almost no dependencies
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# [14:28] <gal> yeah, not saying it will be trivial, but I am sure we can split out a few subsystems
# [14:28] <jfkthame> yeah - lately i think there's been a pattern of just putting everything in there by default, regardless of whether it needs xpcom, regardless of whether it's startup-perf-critical, etc
# [14:29] <gal> yeah, angle is in there
# [14:29] <gal> I mean if we ever need WebGL during startup, we are all set
# [14:29] <smaug> hmm, did someone reset tryserser tbpl or something. I can't see any results older than Mon Dec 12 15:41:43
# [14:30] <gal> I am tempted to make a joke involving "we lost the backups before December 12", but I won't
# [14:31] <khuey> smaug: yes, it got reset last night
# [14:31] <khuey> the repo was basically unusable
# [14:32] <smaug> ah
# [14:35] <edmorley> gal++
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# [14:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/05d5c4ef7efc - Doug Turner - Bug 709595 - Add a name for each java thread and timer to aide with debugging. r=blassey
# [14:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/475d66e8929d - Doug Turner - Bug 708200 - Do not create timer to fire geckoLoaded. r=blassey a=android-only
# [14:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/aebdec71790e - Doug Turner - Bug 708280 - delay checking checking for update until idle to avoid startup path. r=mfinkle
# [14:42] <mak> hm is bugzilla having issues?
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# [14:43] <glob> mak, hrm, it's up but slow(er than usual)
# [14:43] <smaug> khuey: what does exports:: mean in Makefile.ins?
# [14:44] <mak> glob: yes, it takes time to reply, and sometimes gives me the "connection reset" error
# [14:44] <khuey> smaug: it means that whatever commands are given run in the "export" phase of the build
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# [14:45] <glob> mak, odd; the load isn't high on bmo (45 mins ago it was, but it's ok now)
# [14:45] <glob> mak, connectiom reset by peer generally points to a networking issue
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# [14:45] <smaug> khuey: can there be several exports:: in one Makefile.in ?
# [14:46] <smaug> or should I combine them somehow
# [14:46] <mak> glob: yes, it looks like a network issue, of some kind...
# [14:46] <khuey> smaug: there can be several
# [14:46] <khuey> no need to combine them if they're logically separate
# [14:46] <smaug> k
# [14:46] <smaug> thanks
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# [14:52] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/00e184077825 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 701913 - Fix query to check bookmark URL in Honeycomb/ICS (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [14:52] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/98037e1999a6 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 701835 - Fix bookmark removal in Honeycomb/ICS (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [14:52] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/71a7af64da86 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 698828 - Fix add bookmark operation in Honeycomb/ICS (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
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# [15:04] <khuey> Callek: ping
# [15:04] <Callek> pong ?
# [15:04] <Callek> (uh-oh)
# [15:05] <Olipro> wow, 709193 looks like a clanger
# [15:05] <khuey> Callek: http://khuey.pastebin.mozilla.org/1404154
# [15:05] <khuey> Callek: rs=you for changes for 709657?
# [15:05] * Olipro has a poke to see if there are 64 bit utils that produce 32 bit binaries
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# [15:07] <Callek> khuey: why is it ifdef XP_WIN for c-c but no ifdef around it in firefox's manifest?
# [15:07] * Callek goes simply by the context
# [15:07] <Olipro> the Intel Compiler suite might be an option... it's a drop-in replacement for the MS ones
# [15:07] <Callek> khuey: but if you answer that question, either way rs+=me (I can trust you to fix whichever spot is necessary)
# [15:08] <khuey> Callek: because the patch in hte bug is out of date ;-)
# [15:08] <khuey> it will be the same for both when landed
# [15:08] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/3d281759cc9b - Lucas Rocha - Bug 707732 - More robust implementation of add bookmark (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:08] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/16460caf3232 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 707732 - More robust implementation of thumbnail update (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:08] <Callek> ahh ok, thanks then
# [15:08] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/870c9c658066 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 707732 - Handle case of updating favicon on non-existing URL (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:09] <NeilAway> smaug: in fact having :: means that there can be several
# [15:10] <khuey> well, you can have several for ':' too in the right circumstances
# [15:10] <khuey> it's not generally useful though
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# [15:12] <khuey> nice
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# [15:12] <khuey> finally got this stuff to build on linux
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# [15:13] * khuey is amused at the people on HN complaining that chrome is bloated and crashy
# [15:14] <Callek> khuey: its because they bump the version number so often
# [15:14] <Callek> bloating and crashy happens when the version number changes
# [15:14] <Callek> I can graph it too in order to show you the proof if it helps :-)
# [15:14] <Callek> correlation == causation you know
# [15:14] <khuey> heh
# [15:15] <khuey> there is a really good point in this thread though
# [15:15] <khuey> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3345030
# [15:15] <khuey> "everyone who is not on the stability team is on the instability team."
# [15:16] <Standard8> though that does imply you can't be on the feature team and on the stability team
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# [15:16] <khuey> true
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# [15:17] <Callek> lol :-) "It may help by simply getting the bug-generating developers to do something else for a while."
# [15:19] <edmorley> :-)
# [15:20] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/1817ebca70d2 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 707124 - Add query to BrowserProvider to fetch DB schema version (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:20] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/e79b3396889c - Lucas Rocha - Bug 707636 - Use "signature" permissions on BrowserProvider (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
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# [15:28] <jfkthame> edmorley: thx for starring orange on my push, was just about to do that so you've saved me the trouble
# [15:28] <edmorley> np :-)
# [15:30] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/6db2e3d94c60 - Atul Aggarwal - Bug 695648 - Remove unnecessary friend class mozilla::AutoRestore<bool> from nsContentUtils; r=smaug a=removal
# [15:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/cd1caaec767c - Hub Figuiere - Bug 707852 - Remove the wrapper for the Obj-C class as we can do without; r=surkov a=mac-only
# [15:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/15a6c19a0d23 - Javi Rueda - Bug 379342 - Remove Win95/Win98 support code in XPCom; r=bsmedberg a=removal
# [15:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/e3eaae25901c - Nicolas Pierron - Bug 700517 - Add "ret imm16" instruction for x86 and x86_64; r=dvander a=not-libxul
# [15:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/2b60fb6d0e64 - Serge Gautherie - Bug 706149 - Improve checks and documentation in browser_bug462289.js; r=enndeakin a=test-only
# [15:30] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/d401db5bf913 - Andrew Quartey - Bug 706010 - Remove NS_SPECIALIZE_TEMPLATE and HAVE_CPP_MODERN_SPECIALIZE_TEMPLATE_SYNTAX; r=khuey a=cleanup/removal
# [15:30] <Callek> removed win95 code
# [15:30] <Callek> noooo
# [15:30] <Callek> now I cant use Fx11 on my win95 machine
# [15:31] <Callek> how else am I going to use WebGL on that machine
# [15:31] <ewong> two words.. "You don't"
# [15:32] <bsmedberg> we haven't actually *worked* on win95 in several releases
# [15:32] <bsmedberg> this is just fixing old code which is no longer relevant
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# [15:32] * Callek hoped it was obvious he was making a joke....
# [15:32] <bsmedberg> IRC is bad for that ;-)
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# [15:33] <Callek> even if Fx11 worked on Win95, I doubt I'd have had a system that could support WebGL even if the GPU driver wasn't blacklisted :-)
# [15:34] <beltzner> (so bad for that)
# [15:34] <reuben> heh
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# [15:39] <smaug> khuey: so in which phase do we get idl files to obj/dist/idl
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# [15:39] <smaug> looks like my patch tries to use some files from there before they exist
# [15:39] <smaug> in clobber build
# [15:39] <smaug> some idls are there
# [15:39] <smaug> but not dom idls
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# [15:41] <khuey> smaug: export
# [15:42] <smaug> khuey: ok, so my header file is created too early in the export phase
# [15:43] <smaug> khuey: is there some phase between export and actual compilation ?
# [15:43] <khuey> no
# [15:43] <jesup> export then libs
# [15:43] <khuey> right
# [15:43] <jesup> IIRC
# [15:43] <khuey> can you generate your header during the compilation phase?
# [15:44] <smaug> can I export the header at that phase?
# [15:44] <khuey> sure
# [15:44] <smaug> to dist/includes
# [15:44] <khuey> yeah
# [15:44] <khuey> as long as nothing that gets built earlier needs that header
# [15:44] <smaug> js/xpconnect is handled before dom etc
# [15:44] <khuey> right
# [15:45] <khuey> you should be fine doing it in the libs phase then
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# [15:45] <smaug> ok, thanks
# [15:45] <smaug> khuey: so I use libs::
# [15:45] * khuey wishes tryserver had a turbo switch
# [15:45] <smaug> but still EXPORT = ...
# [15:45] <khuey> smaug: no, if you need to generate it during the libs phase you can't use EXPORTS =
# [15:45] <khuey> you have to install it to dist/include yourself
# [15:46] <Callek> khuey: turbo builds: |echo exit 2 >> configure.in|
# [15:46] <Callek> khuey: you'll get results remarkably fast
# [15:46] <smaug> khuey: ok
# [15:46] * smaug tries to find some example for this..
# [15:46] * Callek should stop joking in #developers today
# [15:47] <edmorley> davidb: no problem :-)
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# [15:48] <bhearsum> ehsan: can you cc me on that bug?
# [15:48] <khuey> ehsan: ping
# [15:48] <ehsan> bhearsum: just did
# [15:48] <ehsan> khuey: hi
# [15:48] <Callek> me too
# [15:48] <khuey> ehsan: did you see RyanVM's numbers?
# [15:48] <Callek> "=_
# [15:48] <Callek> :-)
# [15:48] <bhearsum> thanks
# [15:48] <ehsan> khuey: which numbers?
# [15:49] <khuey> ehsan: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709193#c44
# [15:49] * ehsan looks
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# [15:49] <ehsan> khuey: it would help us in the sense that we get immediate access to one more gig of address space, right?
# [15:51] <khuey> ehsan: only if we're on the 64 bit builders
# [15:51] <ehsan> khuey: note that we have vs2010 but not vs2005 on our x64 builders
# [15:51] <ehsan> yes
# [15:51] <khuey> ehsan: right, I know
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# [15:51] <ehsan> that is what I'm aiming for
# [15:51] <khuey> just want to be clear that we need both pieces here
# [15:51] <ehsan> of course
# [15:51] <khuey> ok :-)
# [15:51] * khuey goes back to watching his tryserver submission boil
# [15:51] * ehsan wasn't counting on msvc2010's memory efficiency that much
# [15:52] <ehsan> khuey: although I heard from someone that vs2010 can link xul.dll with the graphite/speedy stuff in it just fine
# [15:52] <ehsan> khuey: all we need is to buy one more week of time ;)
# [15:52] <ehsan> and then we'll be switching to vs2010 anyways
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# [15:53] <Callek> ehsan: "we'll be switching ... anyway" hasn't been decided afaik
# [15:53] <Callek> at least not in the timeframe you cite
# [15:53] <bhearsum> ehsan: i couldn't find any useful ISOs for you, but i tried to get some IT action on your bug
# [15:53] <ehsan> really? I thought we decided that for gecko12
# [15:53] <ehsan> bhearsum: thanks :)
# [15:53] <khuey> the product folks are still waiting on metrics on the number of users we'd be cutting
# [15:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/617f56ac76e6 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708151 - Change GUID generation to be more compliant with Sync (r=rnewman, a=mfinkle)
# [15:54] <khuey> before signing off
# [15:54] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/aae06ac0f572 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708151 - Add indexes where needed in local bookmarks/history DB (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:54] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/59ccf417d4ab - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708151 - Add _id column to images and implement missing operations (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:54] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/4c56ca404637 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708331 - Add keyword, description, and tags columns to Bookmarks (r=mfinkle, a=mfinkle)
# [15:54] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5a439e5fbf04 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708151 - Handle deleted records in a sync-friendly way (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:54] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/892998b30769 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708151 - Fix switch indentation in BrowserProvider (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [15:55] <ehsan> khuey: now, if we have a solution for not EOL-ing those OSes.... ;)
# [15:55] <khuey> right
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# [16:00] <bbondy> when we EOL an OS version or service pack, we don't offer upgrades to that version right?
# [16:00] <khuey> right
# [16:00] <bbondy> k just checking :)
# [16:00] <espindola> what are the instructions for enabling imap again
# [16:00] <Callek> espindola: file a bug on server ops::desktop
# [16:00] <espindola> without the client thinking that the missing messages were deleted?
# [16:00] <Callek> ehsan: can you cc me to that bug too?
# [16:01] <espindola> Callek, even if I have the old emails locally?
# [16:01] <Callek> espindola: ask in #it or #desktop
# [16:01] <dao> espindola: https://mana.mozilla.org/wiki/display/DESKTOP/Restoring+Email+for+IMAP
# [16:01] <espindola> thanks!
# [16:01] <ehsan> Callek: done
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# [16:01] <Callek> espindola: or you can use dao's intranet link that I can't view :-P
# [16:01] <ehsan> bbondy: java settlement, eh?
# [16:01] <espindola> I will try that...
# [16:01] <bbondy> apparently, they say they try to always keep old products but in certain cases they can no longer offer downloads on MSDN.
# [16:02] <bbondy> and win2k is one of those cases :(
# [16:02] <ehsan> bbondy: xp before sp2 doens't seem to be on that list though
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# [16:02] <bbondy> ehsan: that may be available pre sp2
# [16:02] <ehsan> I like how that page says that these products may be avaiable through third parties :)
# [16:02] <bbondy> I haven't checked
# [16:03] <bbondy> hah
# [16:03] <bbondy> :)
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# [16:06] <khuey> wow, the top comment on the slashdot article about ABP is speculation that they're getting paid off
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# [16:07] <Callek> Ad Block Plus?
# [16:07] <khuey> yes
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# [16:11] <Pike> ted: it'd be great if I could get your reviews for the mobile build stuff. Seems that we're out of other reviewers for the weird edgecase stuff :-/
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# [16:14] <jlebar|away> mak, fyi, PRUint32 is not slower than 64-bit lengths on any 64-bit architecture that I'm aware of.
# [16:14] * jlebar|away is now known as jlebar
# [16:14] <Bas> dougt: ping
# [16:14] <mak> jlebar: it has to be expanded to 64 before being used as an offset
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# [16:15] <jlebar> mak, When you write to a 32-bit register on a 64-bit machine, the top 32 bits are zeroed.
# [16:15] <jlebar> on an x86-64 machine, I mean.
# [16:15] <jlebar> mak, so to "expand" it, you just use the full register.
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# [16:16] <jlebar> mak, I believe it was spec'ed this way to address precisely this issue.
# [16:16] <mak> jlebar: to me looks more correct to use the internal array definition than a randomly acceptable sized int. But I don't mind that much. I just would like to have a coding guide that tells me if we want to use ::size_type or PRUint32
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# [16:17] <ted> Pike: sux2bme
# [16:17] <jlebar> mak, people use our coding guides? :)
# [16:17] <ted> Pike: sorry, was travelling last week and catching up this week
# [16:17] <jlebar> mak, The best coding guide I've found is grep | wc -l.
# [16:17] <jlebar> mak, hg locate | grep -v 'nsTArray' | xargs grep size_type | grep -vi string
# [16:17] <mak> jlebar: yes, some do. And the most reviews I got asked me to use size_type
# [16:17] <Pike> ted: I'd call it a tie between having to review or having to write those patches
# [16:17] <ted> hah
# [16:17] <Pike> .. and thanks
# [16:18] <jlebar> mak, according to that search, size_type is used basically nowhere.
# [16:18] <jlebar> mak, but I don't care whether you use it; only that you don't say that we should use it because it's faster.
# [16:18] <khuey> ooh are we having a type war?
# [16:18] <jlebar> mak, premature optimization is the root of all evil, and all that.
# [16:18] <jlebar> khuey, we are explicitly *not* having a type war. :)
# [16:19] <mak> jlebar: my opinion is that it is more correct, the fact it may be faster came out from the newgroup, I don't have evidence it's false though
# [16:19] <ted> anyone speculating that something is faster without measuring it is not being useful
# [16:20] <mak> and actually, we have code using PRInt32 instead of PRUint32, so apart coding style, people doesn't even follow basic checks :)
# [16:20] * khuey speculates that one can make statements about performance faster through speculation than measurement
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# [16:21] <ted> ha ha
# [16:22] <jlebar> mak, I would definitely prefer size_type over PRInt32. :)
# [16:22] <khuey> science is hard
# [16:22] <khuey> lets go shopping
# [16:23] <jesup> only 11 shopping days until xmas!
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# [16:24] <ted> typing nsTArray<X>::size_type is a PITA
# [16:24] <ted> i guess you could typedef it
# [16:24] <mak> jlebar: btw this would not be optimization in advance, would just be abstraction. But I don't really have the will to discuss when both approaches may be correct
# [16:24] <ted> but that's sadmaking
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# [16:25] <jlebar> mak, Right; I'm fine with you saying we should use size_type because it's a better abstraction. I disagree, and I think our codebase does too, but that's a matter of taste, I guess.
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# [16:26] <mak> jlebar: yes the codebase disagree with code style and with itself. having a language with the code style check in the compiler would be better!
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# [16:28] <khuey> jesup: ugh
# [16:30] * mak is far behind with christmas gifts
# [16:31] <mak> I hope my gf will accept an handshake as gift
# [16:31] <Callek> mak: I want an amazon gift card
# [16:31] <khuey> haha
# [16:31] <mak> Callek: I have first to check if you have been a good person this year
# [16:31] <froydnj> bjacob did show that size_t was faster than {u,}int32_t on microbenchmarks, but whether that translates up to mozilla is unclear
# [16:32] * mcote|afk is now known as mcote
# [16:32] <Callek> mak: I've done lots of work for SeaMonkey, and been helping MoCo directly on the new [releng] Puppet Initiative, does that count?
# [16:32] <Callek> or do you mean in my personal life
# [16:32] <mak> I'll have to pay a detective to ensure that
# [16:33] <mak> everything counts
# [16:33] <Callek> well if you want to pay a detective thats fine, but I want to see the results, with specific reasons not to get me a gift cited -- or a gift card
# [16:33] <Callek> :-P
# [16:34] <mak> how many random oranges did you fix?
# [16:34] <IanN> glandium: ping
# [16:35] <jlebar> froydnj, I'd be interested in what microbenchmark that is!
# [16:35] <glandium> IanN: pong
# [16:36] <IanN> glandium: are you the right person to talk to about ld gold?
# [16:36] <glandium> IanN: depends for what in particular :)
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# [16:36] <froydnj> jlebar: it was a merge sort; only one or two extra insns in the inner loop
# [16:36] <mak> jlebar: fwiw in our case doens't matter since typedef PRUint32 size_type;
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# [16:37] <IanN> glandium: well the issue I seem to have is that if I try and use ld gold on fedora 15 it wants to link using the xulrunner sdk
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# [16:37] <mak> jlebar: and doesn't use size_t
# [16:37] <froydnj> jlebar: bjacob also said that a matrix library he worked on got a good bit faster when indexing switched to size_t
# [16:37] <jlebar> mak, well yes, but your argument was we might want to change size_type to size_t in the future.
# [16:37] <mak> yes, just doesn't apply to today
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# [16:37] <froydnj> I am still skeptical is makes much difference for something like nsTArray
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# [16:38] <IanN> glandium: or that is what I think I am seeing
# [16:38] <jlebar> froydnj, yeah, I think the memory effects of making the header twice as big are more important.
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# [16:38] <espindola> on windowns pgo implies lto
# [16:38] <jlebar> espindola, yes...
# [16:38] <espindola> is it possible to use only LTO?
# [16:39] <glandium> IanN: it's not related to ld gold. it's a problem on fedora. I'm pretty sure i've seen a bug about that recently
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# [16:39] <espindola> do we know how much of the benefits, and the problems, we get are from lto or pgo?
# [16:39] <glandium> espindola: i'm not sure anyone did the research
# [16:39] <Callek> benefits are nice fast binaries
# [16:39] <jlebar> espindola, looks like you can do just LTO. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa289170%28v=vs.71%29.aspx#profileguidedoptimization_topic3
# [16:39] <Callek> is it possible to do pgo without lto?
# [16:40] <espindola> yes, I guess the question is if we used just LTO, would the link work?
# [16:40] <Callek> just as a curiosity
# [16:40] <IanN> glandium: well I think ld.bfd would work (if it didn't run out of memory for libxul)
# [16:40] <espindola> Callek, not on windows I don't think
# [16:40] <glandium> espindola: in all likeliness, yes.
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# [16:40] <espindola> with gcc that is the normal way, each CU is parsed twice ...
# [16:41] <espindola> interesting
# [16:41] <glandium> IanN: iirc the problem is that it takes a lib that is in /usr/lib/xulrunner-something, which is in the ld.so.conf search path
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# [16:44] <IanN> glandium: ah, strange that I don't have the issue on my x64 box, just on my x32 box
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# [16:45] <robcee> Enn: hey is the awesomebar positioning thing still a problem?
# [16:45] <robcee> I'm seeing it in one of my builds and thought it was fixed already
# [16:45] <glandium> IanN: see bug 686097
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# [16:46] <Enn> robcee: no. it's bug 707814
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# [16:49] <robcee> Enn: ah, thanks
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# [16:49] <IanN> glandium: thanks
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# [16:50] <robcee> Enn: hunh. interesting
# [16:50] <armenzg> anyone know how I could match a revision from mozilla-central to a tinderbox-builds directory on ftp?
# [16:50] <robcee> I got it this morning on a single-monitor machine and it appeared after dragging my window from one Space in OS X to another.
# [16:50] <robcee> want me to write that up? No idea if I can repro that way or not.
# [16:51] <armenzg> if I could have all firefox-11.0a1.en-US.win32.txt under tinderbox-builds I think I could
# [16:51] <Enn> tn is working on the bug so you'd have to talk to him
# [16:51] <khuey> !seen mcmanus
# [16:51] <firebot> mcmanus was last seen 16 hours, 47 minutes and 8 seconds ago, saying 'philor - awesome. thanks.' in #developers.
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# [16:52] <khuey> heh, nice timing
# [16:52] <khuey> mcmanus: ping
# [16:52] <mcmanus> hi khuey
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# [16:52] <@bz> Uh...
# [16:52] <@bz> did someone delete mozilla.dev.performance?
# [16:52] <ted> ehsan: note that one thing i left out of that email is that the "symbol server" right now is just apache
# [16:53] <bhearsum> bz: i think there was a thread on that....
# [16:53] <khuey> mcmanus: I'm about to split some code out of libxul
# [16:53] <@bz> well
# [16:53] <khuey> mcmanus: after that, want to reland SPDY on inbound?
# [16:53] <@bz> there was a thread on shutting it down
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# [16:53] <jesup> bz: over my objections
# [16:53] <ted> we literally just stick compressed PDB files in the right directory structure and serve them over HTTP
# [16:53] <@bz> I don't recall a thread about deleting the archives!
# [16:53] <bhearsum> ah
# [16:53] <mcmanus> khuey - that would brighten my day!
# [16:53] <khuey> mcmanus: ok, I'll tell you when I'm ready
# [16:53] <jesup> deleted the archives????
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# [16:53] <@bz> wel
# [16:53] <@bz> er, well
# [16:53] <@bz> it's not present on the server anymore, says tbird
# [16:53] <ted> armenzg: if you don't know how i don't think anyone else does :)
# [16:54] <@bz> and won't let me touch my local archive either
# [16:54] <ted> armenzg: presumably buildbot knows that somewhere
# [16:54] <armenzg> ted: not funny! it's saddening
# [16:54] <jesup> google groups probably has an archive
# [16:54] <armenzg> I am trying to write a script
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# [16:54] <jesup> ironic
# [16:54] <armenzg> outside of builddbot
# [16:54] <@bz> (and keeps asking me if I want to unsubscribe from the group every time I do any operation on any newsgroup on news.m.o)
# [16:54] <KWierso> bz: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.performance/topics?pli=1 has topics listed
# [16:54] <TheOne> what's the nickname of chris heilmann?
# [16:54] <@bz> mmm
# [16:54] * @bz looks
# [16:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/271d2711b66c - Kyle Huey - Bug 709657: Split uconv out of libxul. r=me a=me CLOSED TREE
# [16:55] <armenzg> ted: I could probably grab it from http://build.mozilla.org/builds/builds-4hr.js.gz
# [16:55] <armenzg> I think there should be a way of registering builds
# [16:55] <armenzg> with a cgi
# [16:55] <armenzg> or something very simple
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# [16:55] <ted> there's a bug on making a web service for this
# [16:55] <ted> webdev was working on it
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# [16:55] <ted> not sure if it got anywhere
# [16:56] <philor> you should fix that bug about adding logURL to the build properties, then that would get you 99% of the way
# [16:56] * philor whistles
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# [16:56] <@bz> KWierso: back to May 2006
# [16:56] <jesup> newsgroups were never meant to be deleted, merely ignored and mothballed. Classic newsreaders will simply fail to find new articles for a newsgroup that's not on the server anymore
# [16:56] <@bz> Kwierso: I certainly have headers on my machine back to Feb 2006
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# [16:57] <armenzg> it's something so simple but yet no one has tackled it
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# [16:57] <jesup> m.d.performance should go back to the old, old days I think
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# [16:57] <armenzg> for now I will have to work around it
# [16:57] <@bz> Kwierso: similar for .xpcom
# [16:58] <jprmc> glandium: afternoon - how bad are the video reftest issues?
# [16:58] <khuey> edmorley: ping?
# [16:58] <edmorley> khuey, mcmanus: want me to merge m-c to inbound, and backout the SDPY backout
# [16:58] <khuey> edmorley: well I just did the first :-)
# [16:58] <@bz> is dev.apps.firefox gone too?
# [16:58] <jesup> you never delete archives, especially if you're the canonical home for the group. Disk is cheap. Rename it to .archived if you need to.
# [16:58] <khuey> mcmanus may want to reland things in order to get the right blame though
# [16:58] <KWierso> bz: mburns in bug 706152 says the archive is preserved, maybe ask him?
# [16:58] <khuey> mcmanus: inbound is ready for you
# [16:59] * @bz looks
# [16:59] <mcmanus> ok.. will land spdy in a minute or 2.
# [16:59] <khuey> edmorley: do you know how to trigger PGO builds on the tree?
# [16:59] <edmorley> khuey: yeah (buildapi, right down the bottom, pop the cset in; happy to it it myself though)
# [16:59] <khuey> edmorley: ah, nice
# [17:00] <khuey> edmorley: can you trigger several on mcmanus's inbound push, once that happens?
# [17:00] <KWierso> bz: I'm stabbing in the dark here, so if that doesn't work, I'm out of ideas :(
# [17:00] <jesup> Feh. Though I lost that argument, we should never shut down the archives.
# [17:00] <edmorley> khuey: sure (the anti-coalescing patch hasn't been checked in yet, so I'll have to stagger them by 5-10mins or whatever, but I'll get them going)
# [17:00] <khuey> edmorley: awesome, thanks
# [17:01] <@bz> KWierso: thanks for the bug#; I'll follow up there
# [17:01] <@bz> KWierso: thank you for the help!
# [17:01] <KWierso> no problem
# [17:01] <@bz> jcranmer: ping
# [17:02] <glandium> jprmc: in the build i did locally and tested, i just got the video that shows up on the first start page. but try did have a few reftest failures. It would probably be better for someone knowing these things better than me to check the try logs. Likewise for WebGL, but I didn't test at runtime because I didn't have the directX sdk installed
# [17:02] <@bz> jcranmer: Now I have a tbird nntp problem
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# [17:02] <jcranmer> bz: okay
# [17:02] <jcranmer> please continue
# [17:02] <@bz> jcranmer: so someone deleted mozilla.dev.performance
# [17:03] <jcranmer> what does your newsrc file look like?
# [17:03] <@bz> jcranmer: so now any time I do any newsgroup op on news.mozilla.org I get a prompt asking whether I want to unsubscribe from this group that no longer exists
# [17:03] <jprmc> glandium: ok, jgilbert in MTV should be able to check ANGLE, and perhaps jesup on the audio/video
# [17:03] <@bz> jcranmer: once every 10 seconds or so
# [17:03] <@bz> jcranmer: let me finish
# [17:03] <@bz> jcranmer: so I said "screw it", and clicked "OK" to unsubscribe
# [17:03] <khuey> jprmc: we've landed the uconv stuff btw
# [17:03] <glandium> jprmc: at least, the patches build
# [17:04] <khuey> going to try relanding the things we backed out
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# [17:04] <@bz> jcranmer: now every 10 seconds I get an alert saying "Would you like to subscribe to mozilla.dev.performance?"
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# [17:04] <mcmanus> errr.. how do I edit the already committed commit msg to include CLOSED TREE
# [17:04] <jlebar> mcmanus, hg qimport --rev tip
# [17:04] <@bz> jcranmer: where do I find this newsrc?
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# [17:04] <jlebar> mcmanus, hg qref -e
# [17:04] <jprmc> khuey: ah, cool, it wasn't closed in bugzilla - will you be able to give a status update in the engineering call?
# [17:04] <khuey> edmorley: actually, we should probably turn graphite back on before we trigger all those PGO builds too
# [17:04] <khuey> jprmc: I closed it about 90 seconds ago ;-)
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# [17:05] <khuey> jprmc: yeah, I'll be on the call and can give an update then
# [17:05] <@bz> jcranmer: ah, in the profile under News/nesrc-servername ?
# [17:05] <jprmc> thanks
# [17:05] <jcranmer> bz: <profile>/News/newsrc-news.mozilla.org
# [17:05] <jcranmer> or news.mozilla.org.rc if your profile is REALLY old
# [17:05] <@bz> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1404222
# [17:05] <gal> alright
# [17:05] <gal> khuey, can we re-open?
# [17:05] <gal> or should we wait for cycle?
# [17:05] <khuey> gal: we're going to reland the things we backed out on top of that change
# [17:05] <gal> yeah
# [17:05] <khuey> and kick off a bunch of PGO builds
# [17:05] <gal> reasonable
# [17:06] <khuey> and if those go green ... we can probably reopen
# [17:06] <khuey> since we'll know what to do if stuff breaks again
# [17:06] <@bz> jcranmer: incidentally, tbird also just forgot all its read counts for my newsgroups
# [17:06] <mcmanus> khuey - pushed. I've never pushed without compiling inbound before :)
# [17:06] <mcmanus> justin - thanks
# [17:06] <jprmc> khuey: we'll keep graphite out for now?
# [17:06] <khuey> mcmanus: thanks
# [17:07] <jlebar> mcmanus, sure thing!
# [17:07] <jcranmer> bz: close TB immediately
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# [17:07] <khuey> jprmc: I'm going to turn it back on to see if the stuff that was failing before is failing now
# [17:07] <jcranmer> bz: if you're lucky, the read counts won't be forgotten when you start up again
# [17:07] <jcranmer> if not, you have a nice copy of your newsrc without the forgotton read counts
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# [17:08] <@bz> jcranmer: mmm?
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# [17:08] <jcranmer> if you delete the line mozilla.dev.performance, you'll clear that problem
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# [17:08] <@bz> jcranmer: maybe
# [17:08] <gal> mozillacorporation joined, now its a party
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# [17:08] <@bz> jcranmer: ok, but the behavior is clearly buggy, no?
# [17:08] <jcranmer> yeah
# [17:08] <@bz> jcranmer: can you please file+fix?
# [17:08] <jcranmer> I'm trying to think what's causing it
# [17:08] <@bz> jcranmer: ok
# [17:09] <@bz> jcranmer: thanks
# [17:09] <khuey> bah
# [17:09] <khuey> f'ing bug # hook
# [17:09] <@bz> Starting with that newsrc stil has the forgotten read counts
# [17:09] <@bz> fwiw
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# [17:10] <jcranmer> yeah, by the time you see the read counts get forgotten, you've lost everything that has useful debug informatoin
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# [17:10] <@bz> which is obvious from the newsrc, btw
# [17:10] <@bz> because _everything_ in .quality was marked read, say!
# [17:10] <khuey> gal: jprmc: ok we've relanded what we've backed out
# [17:11] <khuey> we'll kick off a bunch of PGO builds now
# [17:11] <khuey> and see where we are
# [17:11] <khuey> edmorley: we're good to go, your trigger finger is much appreciated :-)
# [17:11] <jprmc> ok
# [17:11] * khuey wanders off for food
# [17:11] <edmorley> khuey: done
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# [17:11] <jprmc> khuey: can we do a try without graphite to see if that passes, just in case w/graphite fails
# [17:12] <edmorley> jprmc: I'm triggering PGO both on spdy relanding and the cset after
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# [17:12] <jprmc> edmorley: cool, thanks
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# [17:14] <jcranmer> bz: bug 710226
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# [17:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5ae946cbde55 - Brad Lassey - bug 710194 - Nightly has violated its self-enforced StrictMode policy after a clean install r=mfinkle a=java-only
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# [17:19] <@bz> jcranmer: thanks
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# [17:21] <mounir> smaug: I have not heard of any
# [17:21] <mounir> smaug: but there is a gonk widget component
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# [17:21] <smaug> mounir: bug 709937
# [17:22] <mounir> smaug: any eta about those reviews btw?
# [17:22] <smaug> not today
# [17:22] <mounir> btw, again, I'm really sorry to put all those reviews on you :(
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# [17:30] <espindola> what do we use in js that is closest to moz_assert?
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# [17:30] <ehsan> ted: oh really? I thought that we're using a magical service from microsoft or something
# [17:30] <ehsan> ted: so we can just run any python script on the "symbol server"?
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# [17:33] <@bz> espindola: what's moz_assert ?
# [17:33] <@bz> espindola: is it fatal?
# [17:33] <mak> it is fatal in debug mode
# [17:33] <espindola> bz, on debug builds
# [17:33] <@bz> JS_ASSERT
# [17:33] <@bz> (fatal on debug, no-op on opt)
# [17:33] <espindola> thanks
# [17:33] <@bz> takes a single argument which is the boolean to assert
# [17:33] <espindola> do I have to "include" anything?
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# [17:33] <mak> I think moz_assert is basically the same as js_assert
# [17:34] <@bz> Utility.h, but I would suspect it's already included
# [17:34] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/355b40db0f9a - Marco Bonardo - Bug 706280 - Intermittent failure in browser/components/places/tests/chrome/test_bug549192.xul | Exited with code 1 during test run.
# [17:34] <@bz> e.g. jsapi.h includes it
# [17:34] <@bz> so if you're using js at all....
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# [17:35] <espindola> wait, I want something to use in js code
# [17:36] <espindola> not for c++ code in the js directory :-)
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# [17:36] <edmorley> win pgo on inbound are stuck as pending :-/
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# [17:37] <philor> s/ pgo//
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# [17:38] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/aa0bb5bb8931 - Mark Finkle - Bug 701374 - Show go or search icon in awesomescreen field, as appropriate [r=lucasr a=android-only]
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# [17:38] <philor> since there's a bunch of opt and debug pending on m-c, too
# [17:38] <philor> more, now
# [17:39] <reuben> interesting, firefox is not longer triggering discrete graphics mode for webgl content
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# [17:46] <smichaud> I'm requesting approval to land a patch for bug 708278 on mozilla-central
# [17:47] <smichaud> It's Mac-only, and fixes a bad bug
# [17:48] * @bz mutters about having way more mail in his inbox this morning than usual
# [17:48] <@bz> stupid incentive structures
# [17:49] <sheppy> Heh
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# [17:49] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/15e314ab8dd5 - Ed Morley - Add services/crypto/component/Makefile to services/makefiles.sh & make style consistent with the other scripts (no bug); rs=build a=build-only
# [17:49] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/9b7c08d602b9 - Ed Morley - Add a few recently created makefiles to toolkit-makefiles.sh (no bug); rs=build a=build-only
# [17:50] <espindola> dolske, can you take a look at 702848? If so, would you mind if I changed feeback? to review?
# [17:50] <khuey> smichaud: a=me
# [17:50] <edmorley> smichaud: a=me
# [17:50] <khuey> ha
# [17:50] <edmorley> jinx
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# [17:50] <smichaud> Thanks! I'll land it twice as fast :-)
# [17:51] <smichaud> In the future, should I just go ahead and say "a=maconly"?
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# [17:52] <khuey> smichaud: yes
# [17:52] <@bz> sheppy: "incentive" in this case being that I slept for 9 hours instead of 6....
# [17:52] <khuey> though hopefully there won't be much of a future
# [17:52] <smichaud> Will do.
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# [17:54] <mfinkle> bhearsum, do I use the self-serve UI to start a new nightly for mobile on m-c too?
# [17:55] <mfinkle> or will it start desktop nightly too?
# [17:55] <bhearsum> i think it will start all of them
# [17:55] <ted> ehsan: well, like i said, the symbol server is just apache
# [17:55] <ted> the data store is just an NFS mount from a NetApp right now
# [17:56] <bhearsum> if you just want mobile, coop|buildduty should be able to help you out
# [17:56] <ted> so presumably you could run a web service on the webheads if you wanted
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# [17:56] <mfinkle> coop|buildduty, can you start a mobile -only nightly using cset aa0bb5bb8931 ?
# [17:57] <coop|buildduty> mfinkle: ok
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# [17:59] <mfinkle> coop|buildduty, thanks
# [17:59] <ehsan> ted: so you can pass a function which returns the FPO_DATA from somewhere to StackWalk64
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# [17:59] <ehsan> and then it won't need the pdb file
# [17:59] <NeilAway> espindola: do you want nsIDebug.idl perhaps?
# [17:59] <ted> ehsan: ah, interesting
# [17:59] <ehsan> ted: someone needs to sit down and try to get these pieces to work together
# [18:00] * espindola looks at nsIDebug.idl
# [18:00] <ehsan> cause I believe we have all of the needed pieces
# [18:00] <ted> ehsan: so presumably we could have a web service that returns hunks of that data from the PDB file
# [18:00] <ehsan> exactly
# [18:00] <ted> but that means we'd have to parse PDB files somewhere
# [18:00] <ted> which kind of sucks
# [18:00] <khuey> rofl
# [18:00] <ted> i think i'm missing a lot of background here
# [18:00] <ted> this is all for SPS?
# [18:00] <khuey> is BlastSubtreeToPieces a real thing?
# [18:00] <coop|buildduty> mfinkle: native-only, or XUL too?
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# [18:01] * sheppy sees "PDB" and can't help thinking "PalmOS Database".
# [18:01] <mfinkle> coop|buildduty, native-only is fine
# [18:01] <coop|buildduty> k
# [18:01] <edmorley> sheppy: ahh those were the days
# [18:02] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b0115f8271e1 - Steven Michaud - Bug 708278 - Prevent recursion in ReportMoveEvent(), which can become infinite. r=bgirard a=maconly
# [18:02] <sheppy> edmorley: I spent many years documenting that stuff :)
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# [18:03] <NeilAway> espindola: although to emulate debug builds you'd want nsIDebug2.idl too
# [18:03] <edmorley> sheppy: a (donated) palm Vx was the first computery-ish gadget I owned
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# [18:04] * NeilAway wonders who Ms2ger is expecting to fold that into nsIDebug
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# [18:04] <sheppy> edmorley: noob :)
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# [18:05] <edmorley> heh :-)
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# [18:05] <khuey> woah
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# [18:06] <khuey> did we start signing nightlies when I wasn't looking?
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# [18:06] <bbondy> yes
# [18:06] <khuey> nice
# [18:06] <bbondy> using a diff cert than release
# [18:06] <bbondy> but they are signed now
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# [18:07] <bbondy> catlee and crew
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# [18:12] <@bz> khuey: needed for silent update of nightlies
# [18:13] <khuey> yes, I know
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# [18:14] <catlee> possibly breaking win64 in the process
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# [18:16] <jlebar> bjacob, ping
# [18:16] <bjacob> jlebar: pong
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# [18:16] <jlebar> bjacob, wrt size_t.
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# [18:17] <jlebar> bjacob, So aiui, on x86-64, if you write to the bottom 32 bits of a 64-bit register, it clears the top 32 bits.
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# [18:17] <jlebar> bjacob, That's what mov %esi %esi does.
# [18:17] <bjacob> jlebar: that's my understanding, yes
# [18:17] <jlebar> bjacob, So it seems like using size_t for indexing only helps when you're not inlined.
# [18:17] <bjacob> jlebar: ?
# [18:18] <jlebar> bjacob, because when you are inlined, the compiler knows that the top 32 bits of the array index are zeroed.
# [18:18] <bjacob> jlebar: i've confirmed a 10% perf increase across Eigen benchmarks (eigen.tuxfamily.org) when doing this change
# [18:18] <bjacob> and that is a very inlined context
# [18:19] <jlebar> bjacob, when I, for example, sum a nsTArray with a PRUint32 index, I get
# [18:19] * shorlander-away is now known as shorlander
# [18:19] <jlebar> |add ebx, DWORD PTR [rax + rcx * 4]|
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# [18:19] <jlebar> inc rcx
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# [18:19] <jlebar> cmp ecx, 0xmy-array-length
# [18:19] <jlebar> jne to the |add|
# [18:19] <jlebar> Notice that we're using the 64-bit rXX registers...
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# [18:20] <jlebar> bjacob, So I wonder where this makes a difference, in your inlined context.
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# [18:20] <NeilAway> jlebar: well, cmp ecx <--
# [18:20] <jlebar> NeilAway, sure. But the argument was that we had to insert extra instructions to clear the top bits of ecx, which isn't there.
# [18:21] <jlebar> aren't there?
# [18:21] <jlebar> anyway. :)
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# [18:21] * jlebar recompiles with gcc. Maybe clang is particularly smart.
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# [18:23] <@bz> man
# [18:23] <@bz> philor is either a hero or insane
# [18:23] <@bz> or both
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# [18:23] * @bz goes with both
# [18:23] <NeilAway> jlebar: would the compiler be smart enought to put for (char c = 0; c < 255; c++) foo += bar[c]; into a 64-bit register?
# [18:23] <philor> very much not mutually exclusive
# [18:23] <@bz> philor: I mean.. you're starring _try_ builds?
# [18:23] <@bz> philor: I was going to go dig into the failures on my push... but you already did
# [18:23] <jwir3> heh
# [18:24] <jlebar> bjacob, aha!
# [18:24] <jwir3> starring try builds is bananas
# [18:24] <mak> bz: one day he'll also write your patches and review your requests :)
# [18:24] <jwir3> ;)
# [18:24] <jlebar> bjacob, it's clang being really smart.
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# [18:24] <jlebar> or gcc being dumb.
# [18:24] <@bz> mak: twould be nice!
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# [18:24] <jlebar> bjacob, er..no, nevermind.
# [18:24] <jlebar> it's the same asm inside the loop.
# [18:24] <philor> bz: that's more of a nervous tic - I'm having to look at what some Mac slaves with experimental dongles do, and one of the things they did was you, so there I am with a push with failures up in front of me...
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# [18:25] <@bz> philor: heh
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# [18:25] <@bz> philor: and then your combat reflexes take over?
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# [18:25] <@bz> philor: and by the time you regain conscious control of your body, the starred builds are all over the floor
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# [18:25] <evilpie> can I land Bug 590036 and Bug 706924 is JS eng
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# [18:26] <@bz> philor: ever read the Cobra books by Timothy Zahn?
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# [18:27] <edmorley> evilpie: yup :-)
# [18:27] <evilpie> cool thanks
# [18:27] <edmorley> Ms2ger: ah trouble has arrived :-)
# [18:27] <bjacob> jlebar: if you do more complex indexing arithmetic than just summing an array, the compiler typically wont be able to understand anymore that the top 32bits are 0
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# [18:27] <Trouble> Hi edmorley
# [18:28] <edmorley> heh :P
# [18:28] <philor> bz: I know I've read some of his stuff, but not which it was
# [18:28] <jlebar> bjacob, Hm, I suppose that's possible.
# [18:28] <jlebar> bjacob, but of course that doesn't apply to our code.
# [18:28] <@bz> philor: if combat reflexes + Cobra didn't ring bells, probably not
# [18:29] <Trouble> On planes?
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# [18:29] <jlebar> NeilAway, gcc puts SSE instructions into that loop. :)
# [18:29] <jwir3> bz: Are those books good? I really liked his conqueror series
# [18:29] <philor> have to look at what we've got, when I get to work that I'm making myself late for
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# [18:29] <@bz> jwir3: I really liked them when I read them, but I was somewhere around 15 at the time
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# [18:30] <@bz> jwir3: or maybe 14
# [18:30] <jlebar> NeilAway, but at -O2 (no vectorization), yes, char c is promoted to a 64-bit register.
# [18:30] <@bz> jwir3: The first one is almost certainly objectively pretty good
# [18:30] <glandium> i don't know what hg's mq do with qfold, but it's taking as much time as doing a grep on the entire mozilla tree to fold a small patch
# [18:30] <bjacob> jlebar: i dont know, for example I have a lot of use cases in mozilla for indexing by (i + j * Constant)... actually, just (2*i) would already potentially not fit in 32bit even if i does...
# [18:30] <@bz> jwir3: the later ones, not sure
# [18:30] <jwir3> bz: Yeah, I know how that goes... lol I re-read one of my favorite books from when I was 16, and it turned out that I didn't like it as well when I read it now
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# [18:32] <jlebar> bjacob, but the compiler can do the math on 32-bit quantities and still index using the 64-bit register.
# [18:32] <jlebar> bjacob, I'm not saying that your benchmark is bogus, but I still don't understand what's going on. :)
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# [18:32] <jlebar> glandium, what was your command? qfold is usually really fast.
# [18:33] <evilpie> how do i pull update from central when i am on inbound normally?
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# [18:33] <glandium> jlebar: define fast. it takes 3 seconds here. which is the time it takes to do grep -r in the mozilla tree
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# [18:34] <jlebar> glandium, oh, maybe it's doing |hg st| before folding.
# [18:34] <evilpie> okay forget it, i am dumb
# [18:34] <jlebar> That's possible...
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# [18:34] <jlebar> bjacob, Do you still have that mergesort benchmark you mentioned in dev.planning? Google didn't archive the attachment.
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# [18:34] <jlebar> evilpie, (My "that's possible" wasn't at you, in case that's not clear.)
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# [18:34] <glandium> jlebar: hg st takes 300ms
# [18:35] <jlebar> and qfold still takes 3s, even after an hg st?
# [18:35] <jlebar> that's lame, if so.
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# [18:36] <glandium> man hg is lame. (hg log -pr tip + hg diff) takes less time than hg qdiff
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# [18:38] <bjacob> jlebar: email?
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# [18:41] <evilpie> jlebar: didn't think so
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# [18:45] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/467197e8063f - Tom Schuster - Bug 706924 - Rename JSOP_PUSH to JSOP_UNDEFINED, and remove dead code from the decompiler. r=Waldo a=SpiderMonkey
# [18:45] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/317182c27445 - Tom Schuster - Bug 590036 - Optimize cases where we probably eval an array, that would be parsable by JSON. r=jorendorff a=SpiderMonkey
# [18:45] <evilpie> i would like to have inbound back
# [18:45] <Waldo> \o/
# [18:45] <Waldo> word
# [18:46] * Waldo ponders manually pulling m-c into all his repos based off inbound
# [18:46] <evilpie> yes this!
# [18:46] * jhopkins|mtg is now known as jhopkins
# [18:47] <evilpie> i checked tree times, to make sure i don't commit something wrong, because i had some uncommitted changesets
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# [18:49] <evilpie> but it
# [18:49] <evilpie> is super awesome that js eng has it's own dll :O
# [18:50] <Waldo> kind of, ish
# [18:50] <Waldo> right now, yes
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# [18:53] <evilpie> comment on german news site about "firefox is too big", "Is this the temporary end of the version flood?" man
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# [18:53] <jwir3> haha
# [18:53] <sheppy> heh
# [18:53] * jwir3 shakes his head
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# [18:53] <Trouble> It took long
# [18:54] <lurking_work> I-D-1O-T
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# [18:55] <khuey> if I had known that would get picked up by the tech press I would have chosen a different headline
# [18:56] <mcsmurf> evilpie: the article on heise.de? The forum discussion is really interesting ;)
# [18:56] <evilpie> http://www.golem.de/1112/88347.html
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# [18:56] <evilpie> mcsmurf: i considered discussion about mozilla related topics painful to follow recently
# [18:56] <mcsmurf> pff, who reads golem ;)
# [18:56] <mcsmurf> heh
# [18:56] <jlebar> mak, Turns out you're totally right; size_t is often faster than PRUint32 for indexing into an array.
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# [18:57] <jlebar> mak, Not for the reasons bjacob or I thought. The compiler understands that the top bits of the 64-bit register are 0.
# [18:57] <mak> jlebar: not me, bjacob!
# [18:57] <evilpie> mcsmurf: hab heise heute schon gelesen
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# [18:57] <joe|sheriff> jlebar: how much faster?
# [18:57] <mak> jlebar: oh well, still I mind more about the abstraction bits :) btw nice to know!
# [18:57] <jlebar> mak, but it does some optimizations, like turning i into i * 2, only when it's a size_t.
# [18:57] <jlebar> joe|sheriff, Dunno...I didn't time it; I only disassembled. :)
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# [18:58] <joe|sheriff> right, but I wanted to see the disassembly :)
# [18:58] <jlebar> oh, sure. Sec.
# [18:58] <mcsmurf> evilpie: remind me, did I meet you on mozcamp? or were you not there?
# [18:58] <evilpie> i was there
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# [18:59] <mcsmurf> I met someone who was asking why we still develop SeaMonkey, it's old and looks bad
# [18:59] <mcsmurf> but not sure who it was ;)
# [18:59] <jhammel> we still develop SeaMonkey?!?
# [19:00] <mcsmurf> not you :P
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# [19:00] <mcsmurf> was someone from Germany, heh
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# [19:00] <evilpie> i actually asked that ><
# [19:00] <mcsmurf> ah :P
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# [19:02] <jlebar> joe|sheriff, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1404322
# [19:03] <evilpie> me https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/of/111073320381118427255
# [19:03] <evilpie> mcsmurf^
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# [19:04] <mcsmurf> right, then I talked to you :)
# [19:04] <joe|sheriff> jlebar: huh, weird
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# [19:05] <evilpie> mcsmurf: you didn't look very offended
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# [19:06] <mcsmurf> we could certainly maybe use a different, better UI
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# [19:06] <mcsmurf> it's difficult ;)
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# [19:07] <mcsmurf> and the worst part is finding someone to design icons
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# [19:07] <mcsmurf> that's almost impossible :o
# [19:08] <erione> msucan: robcee : thanks for your reviews
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# [19:09] <msucan> you're welcome. thank you for your contribution!
# [19:09] <erione> robcee: i dont know how to get that into aurora :(
# [19:09] <erione> (also am unaware of aurora)
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# [19:10] <db48x> I find myself needing to do "browser" detection to see if I am in Rhino or not
# [19:10] <db48x> has anyone else done this before?
# [19:11] <robcee> erione: you leave that to me :)
# [19:11] <robcee> thanks for the patch!
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# [19:11] <erione> robcee: you are welcome :)
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# [19:13] <@bz> man
# [19:14] <@bz> the linker OOM is tech news?
# [19:14] <@bz> <sigh>
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# [19:14] <@bz> Maybe it's time for a new newsgroup where we do serious discussion
# [19:14] <khuey> indeed
# [19:14] <@bz> and leave the existing ones to the journalists
# [19:14] <Waldo> laugh. because the alternative is to cry.
# [19:14] <db48x> heh
# [19:14] <jcranmer> mozilla.dev.no.journalists ?
# [19:14] * @bz is particularly amused because Chrome has been building on 64-bit systems for years for this _exact_ reason
# [19:14] <@bz> jcrnamer: mozilla.dev.unimportant
# [19:15] <khuey> chrome doesn't use PGO for this exact reason actually
# [19:15] <mcsmurf> a lot of programmers read those pages
# [19:15] <joe|sheriff> bz: they also don't PGO
# [19:15] <mcsmurf> so maybe that's the reason it was a "news" article
# [19:15] <Waldo> mozilla.dev.lookasquirrel
# [19:15] <mcsmurf> but yeah, no real news :)
# [19:15] <joe|sheriff> SQUIRREL
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# [19:15] * mak is now known as mak|afk
# [19:15] <db48x> where did this news show up?
# [19:15] <gavin> pcworld
# [19:16] <@bz> db48x: multiple places
# [19:16] <@bz> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Firefox-Source-Code-Is-So-Big-It-Hit-the-32-Bit-Virtual-Address-Space-Limit-240112.shtml
# [19:16] <@bz> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/246039/firefox_gains_weight_challenging_its_developers.html
# [19:16] <@bz> probbaly others
# [19:16] <gavin> to be fair, the article on pcworld is factually accurate, just misleading given the headline
# [19:16] <@bz> joe|sheriff: they did at one point....
# [19:16] * mcote is now known as mcote|lunch
# [19:16] <khuey> yeah, the pc world article wasn't bad
# [19:16] <jcranmer> yuck
# [19:16] <jcranmer> "google groups email"
# [19:16] <@bz> gavin: chances are, the article author didn't write the headline
# [19:16] <@bz> jcranmer: context?
# [19:16] <gavin> yeah, I know
# [19:16] <jcranmer> I hereby revoke that reporter's license to write technical details
# [19:16] <jcranmer> bz: the pcworld article
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# [19:17] <mcsmurf> bz: so Chrome also needs a few GB for linking?
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# [19:18] <@bz> mcsmurf: as I understand, they need it for _something_ during the build process
# [19:18] <froydnj> bz: chrome also does not use PGO, afaik
# [19:19] <@bz> froydnj: hmm. Again, I was pretty sure they did, but I could be wrong....
# [19:19] * bhearsum asks one of the chrome build people
# [19:19] <mcsmurf> btw: Is is still possible to disable libxul when building on my own PC (Windows)? I'm not sure about that
# [19:19] <khuey> nope
# [19:19] <@bz> mcsmurf: no
# [19:19] <khuey> --disable-libxul is gone
# [19:19] <mcsmurf> ok, I'll update the wiki then
# [19:19] <@bz> hm
# [19:19] <@bz> as of last year:
# [19:19] <@bz> "No one has been able to get chrome.dll to link with PGO instrumentation in
# [19:19] <@bz> less than infinite time.
# [19:19] <@bz> People have talked about it and some have died trying, but it has yet to be
# [19:19] <@bz> done. "
# [19:19] <jcranmer> --disable-libxul was killed around 2.0
# [19:20] <@bz> according to http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/533e94237691e2f6
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# [19:20] <@bz> so maybe I misread something
# [19:20] <mcsmurf> heh
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# [19:20] <mcsmurf> (@quote)
# [19:20] <@bz> so I'm wrong about the PGO thing
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# [19:21] <mccr8> I'm a little sad khuey wasn't given some grand made-up title in either of those articles. That seems to be common in these types of articles. ;)
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# [19:21] <catlee> bz: in which way?
# [19:22] <khuey> khuey, Mozilla Vice President of Compilers :-P
# [19:22] <jcranmer> Chief Engineer of Things We Don't Understand
# [19:22] * philor|away is now known as philor
# [19:22] <khuey> mccr8: also, be glad that they didn't see http://quotes.burntelectrons.org/6126
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# [19:23] <mccr8> hah
# [19:23] <@bz> catlee: which way what?
# [19:23] <khuey> "The problem probably stems from the fact that they're using the linker when they're compiling... "
# [19:24] <khuey> rofl
# [19:24] <@bz> khuey: yeah, well
# [19:24] <jhammel> khuey: they'd probably report "Mozilla to remove XBL" ;)
# [19:24] <catlee> bz: do they use it or not?
# [19:24] <@bz> catlee: as of about 15 months ago, they had not managed to
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# [19:24] <lurking_work> khuey: tell them 'patches accepted' :)
# [19:24] <@bz> catlee: as in, had never gotten it to build with PGO at all
# [19:24] <froydnj> they have a reordering postlinker, which I think is >> PGO
# [19:25] <khuey> really?
# [19:25] <@bz> hmm?
# [19:25] * khuey finds that hard to believe
# [19:25] <@bz> >> in what way?
# [19:25] <mwu> oh it's magical.
# [19:25] <khuey> well, I might believe that you think it
# [19:25] <khuey> :-)
# [19:25] * khuey would want to see numbers before believing that himself
# [19:26] <froydnj> http://blog.mozilla.com/nfroyd/2011/09/20/startup-reduction-times-with-syzygy-part-2/
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# [19:26] <froydnj> the postlinker itself can be found at http://code.google.com/p/sawbuck/wiki/SyzygyDesign or thereabouts
# [19:27] * froydnj thinks a lot of things, most of which are probably total rubbish
# [19:27] <khuey> heh, we all do
# [19:27] <khuey> 6% is probably less than what PGO buys us
# [19:27] <khuey> 25% might be more
# [19:27] <khuey> this stuff looks pretty cool
# [19:28] <mbrubeck> orange on smichaud's stuff
# [19:28] <khuey> (note that of course PGO helps on things other than startup)
# [19:28] <mbrubeck> s/stuff/push/
# [19:28] <mcpherrin> 4
# [19:28] <@bz> froydnj: oh, for reducing startup time, sure
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# [19:28] <mbrubeck> (khuey's previous message infected my typing)
# [19:28] <@bz> froydnj: but for runtime perf?
# [19:28] * @bz reads link
# [19:28] <froydnj> bz: doubtful that it would help with runtime perf
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# [19:29] <@bz> froydnj: ok
# [19:29] <joe|sheriff> mbrubeck: huh
# [19:29] <@bz> froydnj: I totally buy the claim that the reodering postlinker can win big on startup perf
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# [19:29] <joe|sheriff> because that truly is in cocoa-specific code
# [19:29] <mbrubeck> hmm, and it has a=mac-only
# [19:29] <mwu> might just be unlucky
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# [19:29] <froydnj> it does make a big difference
# [19:29] <mwu> hm wow, same error on three moths
# [19:29] <jorendorff> roc: we had a conversation once where you said "putting the debugger in reverse" is a horrible UI for chronomancer-style debugging
# [19:30] <mbrubeck> I've retriggered the tests
# [19:30] <jorendorff> roc: have you written anything about that? (the UI aspect of it)
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# [19:30] <mbrubeck> but yeah, the Linux opt and Linux64 opt failures are exactly the same
# [19:30] <bhearsum> just to follow up, chrome definitely does _not_ use PGO anymore, and they build exclusively on 64-bit machines
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# [19:31] <khuey> bhearsum: ok, good to know
# [19:31] <khuey> bhearsum: they used to use PGO?
# [19:31] <bhearsum> yeah
# [19:31] <bhearsum> they shut it off when they first hit the address space limit IIRC
# [19:31] <khuey> ah
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# [19:32] <@bz> bhearsum: aha!
# [19:32] <@bz> bhearsum: So I wasn't totally on crack!
# [19:32] <bhearsum> nope!
# [19:32] <bent> maybe pcworld would write an article about that, "chrome way too big for mozilla's britches"
# [19:33] <@bz> bent: mail the article author and suggest it?
# [19:33] <@bz> bent: Seriously
# [19:33] <khuey> I think in terms of shipped binary code we come in under IE
# [19:33] <khuey> we *definitely* come in under chrome
# [19:33] <@bz> "shipped binary code" is a complicated concept for IE
# [19:33] <philor> mbrubeck: Unfocused filed something, not long after he thought he fixed bug 679588, something about not resetting prefs
# [19:33] <khuey> right
# [19:33] <khuey> bz: I was counting mshtml.dll, iexplore.exe
# [19:33] <@bz> (does "direct2d" count for IE9?)
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# [19:33] <khuey> bz: does it count for us? ;-)
# [19:34] <@bz> khuey: we have software fallbacks for when it's not available that we ship
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# [19:34] <khuey> the more interesting question is things like the system crypto libs
# [19:34] <khuey> etc
# [19:34] <@bz> khuey: IE9 doesn't have them; they just put them inside direct2d instead
# [19:34] <khuey> that we don't use
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# [19:34] <@bz> khuey: that's actually a very similar discussion
# [19:34] <@bz> khuey: in my head
# [19:34] <bent> bhearsum, where'd you read that about chrome ditching pgo?
# [19:34] <Ms2ger> Hearing voices?
# [19:34] <khuey> yeah but your head is mostly on crack
# [19:34] <@bz> Ms2ger: always
# [19:35] <Ms2ger> Aha
# [19:35] * @bz has a really hard time falling asleep
# [19:35] <@bz> because there's patch code scrolling behind his eyelids
# [19:35] <@bz> it's very distracting
# [19:35] <bhearsum> bent: there's a bug somewhere but i can't find it....
# [19:35] <@bz> I try to not do any reviews before bed. :(
# [19:35] <philor> mbrubeck: bug 709531, which if he's right would mean one can leave the rest hitting the network, and yay orangesplosion
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# [19:35] <bhearsum> just now i asked one of the chrome build engineers about it
# [19:35] <khuey> I dreamed about a patch a couple weeks ago
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# [19:35] <khuey> I think that means I need to take some PTO
# [19:35] <Ms2ger> No!
# [19:36] <Ms2ger> And certainly not now :)
# [19:36] <espindola> armenzg, 707152 is fixed, right?
# [19:36] <bhearsum> ugh, "address space limit chrome pgo" pulls up stories about us
# [19:36] <@bz> bhearsum: heh
# [19:36] <espindola> at least I see the test running on try on macos64
# [19:36] <jhopkins> khuey: are there certain files we can watch for when triggering PGO builds and ignore others? if we limited to .c, .cpp, .h checkins i think we could lower the number of pgo builds by about 40%
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# [19:37] <philor> "*** LOG addons.repository: Requesting https://services.addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/api/1.5/..."
# [19:37] <khuey> jhopkins: I think it's better to whitelist extensions that are safe
# [19:37] <khuey> jhopkins: mak|afk compiled a list somewhere
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# [19:37] <armenzg> espindola: I believe it got backed out because we were on the day before a merge day and people were getting uncomfortable with the intermittent orange
# [19:37] <jhopkins> khuey: mak|afk: that would be really interesting... i'd be happy to look into it more if i could get a copy of that list.
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# [19:37] <espindola> armenzg, this is the one adding it back in ;-)
# [19:37] <philor> but building PGO is not our only problem, tests run on PGO builds run faster and hit timing errors that aren't hit on opt and debug
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# [19:38] <armenzg> if you ask another review from rail he should be able to deploy it
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# [19:38] <armenzg> espindola: sounds good ^?
# [19:38] <espindola> armenzg, I think it is deployed
# [19:38] <catlee> hm
# [19:38] <catlee> what version does vs2005 call itself?
# [19:38] <espindola> armenzg, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=7906940&tree=Try&full=1
# [19:38] <bhearsum> catlee: 7.1 iirc
# [19:38] <armenzg> espindola: oh!
# [19:38] <khuey> catlee: 8
# [19:38] <bhearsum> lies, 8.0
# [19:38] <khuey> bhearsum: 7.1 is 2003
# [19:39] <khuey> jhopkins: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709192#c8
# [19:39] <bhearsum> stupid multiple version numbers
# [19:39] <armenzg> espindola: that looks like a 10.6 debug build on a 10.6 machine
# [19:39] <armenzg> oh no
# [19:39] <espindola> armenzg, yes, and we run leaktest on it
# [19:39] <khuey> bhearsum: at least they're not releasing every six weeks :-P
# [19:39] <catlee> what's 9.0?
# [19:39] <khuey> catlee: 2008
# [19:39] <catlee> boo
# [19:39] <jhopkins> khuey: thanks
# [19:39] <khuey> and 10 is 2010
# [19:39] <khuey> jhopkins: sure, np
# [19:39] <armenzg> espindola: that bug should then be fixed
# [19:40] <bhearsum> khuey: if they did, maybe we'd have less issues with it =\
# [19:40] <armenzg> should we enable it everywhere? (except Aurora and beyond)
# [19:40] <espindola> ok. Will double check inbound and m-c and close it
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# [19:40] <armenzg> OK
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# [19:42] <mwu> mbrubeck: green on a moth on evilpie's push so I'm just gonna assume smichaud was just very unlucky
# [19:42] <mbrubeck> yeah
# [19:42] <mbrubeck> Some of these "random" oranges are actually influenced by things like network hiccups, too
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# [19:42] <mwu> ah
# [19:42] <mbrubeck> so there might have been an external factor causing all three failures at once
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# [19:43] <mbrubeck> I'll file a bug and make it depend on bug 709531
# [19:43] <armenzg> espindola: I will be back in an hour in case you're looking for me on IRC
# [19:43] <mbrubeck> oh, looks like philor's just starring as bug 709531
# [19:43] <espindola> armenzg, ok. thanks
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# [19:45] <philor> mbrubeck: you'd probably have to list every single addons test, and then you'd get every single failure in them dumped on you
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# [19:45] <mbrubeck> hmm, I know I've seen this Android b-c "TEST-UNEXPECTED-ERROR | | Exception caught while running tests." on startup before, but I can't find a bug for it...
# [19:46] <mbrubeck> maybe I didn't file one yet
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# [19:49] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/149e82d17852 - Sriram Ramasubramanian - Bug 709255: Avoid multiple instances of TabsTray. [r=mfinkle a=android-only]
# [19:49] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/87145c060348 - Mark Finkle - Bug 704415 - Style the Add-on Manager (phase 1) [r=mbrubeck a=javascript]
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# [19:50] * philor wonders if he had the wrong log open
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# [19:51] <philor> since I starred it as ye olde "timed out waiting for server startup" because people won't stop killing android test runs on try
# [19:51] <jcranmer> khuey: hey, you left a debug print in runxpcshelltests.py
# [19:52] <khuey> jcranmer: :-/
# [19:52] <jcranmer> print cmd
# [19:52] <philor> mbrubeck: I think the only new thing there is that someone threw in that unhelpful | | Exception
# [19:52] <jcranmer> 314 or so
# [19:52] <Ms2ger> 100Pi?
# [19:52] <mbrubeck> philor: Is it a "just stop" otherwise?
# [19:53] <philor> mbrubeck: timed out while waiting for server startup
# [19:53] <mbrubeck> ah
# [19:53] <mbrubeck> yeah
# [19:53] <davidb> mounir: has anyone taken over https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Mounir.lamouri/HTML5_Forms ?
# [19:53] <philor> there are some we've seen that were... dunno, with that | | Exception, too, that's why you've got that nagging feeling about filing
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# [19:54] <davidb> mounir: bug 344614 I guess - looks like no?
# [19:55] <mounir> davidb: unfortunately not (:
# [19:55] <mbrubeck> I don't like how Android J1 hasn't been green since ten pushes ago, although it's not exactly unusual
# [19:55] <mounir> :(
# [19:55] <mounir> davidb: I'm still hoping to get an intern to do some work
# [19:55] <mbrubeck> and the first orange push doesn't seem to have anything that could have broken it.
# [19:55] <khuey> jcranmer: at least I remembered to remove the Sleep(30000);
# [19:55] <mounir> there is not much thing we want to do
# [19:55] <Ms2ger> mounir, hire a full time instead, please :)
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# [19:56] <jcranmer> khuey: kind of annoying when I'm trying to do code-coverage by "run all test suites that a tinderbox runs for TB"
# [19:57] <davidb> mounir: ok thanks.
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# [19:57] <mounir> Ms2ger: I guess you just got the job :)
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# [19:57] <davidb> haha
# [19:57] * Ms2ger hears echoes
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# [19:58] <gavin> hsivonen: why did bug 700034 break error console links?
# [19:59] <mounir> Ms2ger: so, when do you begin?
# [19:59] <gavin> (i.e. cause bug 710142)
# [19:59] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/16d41bf6df46 - Michael Wu - Bug 706599 - Handle no default in gonk key dispatching, r=jlebar a=gonk-only
# [19:59] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0723ae8c9416 - Michael Wu - Bug 706558 - Remove SetEventCallback, r=roc a=code-removal
# [19:59] <Ms2ger> mounir, look behind you :)
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# [19:59] <Ms2ger> Also, anybody seen ftang lately?
# [19:59] <mounir> Ms2ger: oh, vingtetun and you are the same person?
# [19:59] <Ms2ger> Say, the last decade or so
# [20:00] <Ms2ger> mounir, was about time you found out
# [20:00] <khuey> heh
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# [20:00] <mcpherrin> Is there a way I can make a magic HTML page that can run javascript with XPCOM access? For a demo.
# [20:01] <Ms2ger> No
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# [20:01] <Ms2ger> That's what we call a security bug
# [20:01] <mcpherrin> I'm okay with patching my browser to do it.
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# [20:01] <khuey> univesalxpconnect
# [20:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dbaron
# [20:01] * khuey ducks
# [20:01] * Ms2ger hits khuey
# [20:01] <khuey> you aimed too high
# [20:01] <khuey> I ducked
# [20:01] <Ms2ger> Good I knew you were ducking
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# [20:01] <philor> though maybe piling every extension test failure into a bug about them hitting the network wouldn't be a bad, or inaccurate, idea
# [20:02] <mounir> Ms2ger: given vingtetun's english I doubt you and him are the same person ;)
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# [20:05] <Mook_as> mcpherrin: if you install "developer assistant", you can get a html editor that runs with xpcom access (outside the main firefox window, though).
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# [20:07] <sfink> gerv: what web interface does https://api-dev.bugzilla.mozilla.org/test/latest/ correspond to? (Or really, how can I acquire a login cookie for that URL?)
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# [20:07] <jhopkins> khuey: fyi, based on the extensions in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709192#c8, 25% of checkins would not trigger a PGO build
# [20:07] <khuey> jhopkins: interesting
# [20:08] <Ms2ger> sfink, log in to bmo?
# [20:08] * rail is now known as rail_away
# [20:08] <Ms2ger> So, why is ibm864 such a mess?
# [20:08] <philor> jhopkins: you want bug 710168 instead
# [20:09] * jhopkins looks
# [20:09] <philor> or, alternatively, I very much do not want bug 710168 instead
# [20:09] <sfink> Ms2ger: hm, I'm already logged in there. But I was hoping api-dev went to landfill or somewhere; I don't want to muck with the real bugs yet.
# [20:09] <Ms2ger> Hmm
# [20:09] <philor> are we poor, or are we up against another buildbot thing where we can't add any more slaves because we can't add any more masters?
# [20:09] <Ms2ger> There might be a landfill api, not sure that's the one
# [20:10] <philor> or do we just like to tie the laces of our clownshoes together?
# [20:10] <sfink> Ms2ger: I found the URL https://landfill.bugzilla.org/bzapi_sandbox/ but I'm not sure it's really right
# [20:10] * Ms2ger doesn't know stuff
# [20:11] <Ms2ger> gerv might!
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# [20:13] <rillian> cert on outgoing.stage.mozilla.org is expired
# [20:13] <jhopkins> philor: are you suggesting that we should build all checkins, even if it only included a .html change?
# [20:13] <jhopkins> *pgo build
# [20:14] <Ms2ger> jhopkins, that's what DONTBUILD is for
# [20:14] <Ms2ger> No need to invent something else
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# [20:15] <joe|sheriff> rillian: should probably file an IT bug on that
# [20:15] <@bz> erm
# [20:15] <@bz> why is https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=355c33d072c9 not loading?
# [20:16] <jhopkins> Ms2ger: if that's true, we could ignore building *and* pgo building all those files. that decision could be made inside buildbot, then there's no need for DONTBUILD
# [20:16] <taras> jaws: ping
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# [20:18] <jhopkins> bhearsum: ^
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# [20:20] <bhearsum> if that's about tbpl, i redirect to coop|buildduty
# [20:21] <jhopkins> bhearsum: regarding pgo and DONTBUILD
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# [20:22] <bhearsum> i'm not really following this, so i'll have to redirect to jhford-work instead
# [20:23] <coop|buildduty> bz: how old is the changeset? we reset the try repo yesterday which might explain it
# [20:23] <philor> bz: https://hg.mozilla.org/try/json-pushes?full=1&changeset=355c33d072c9
# [20:23] <jhford-work> jhopkins: pgo builds are honeybadgers
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# [20:23] <khuey> edmorley++
# [20:24] <philor> if you can tell a DONTBUILD (a change to a comment in a .cpp) from a BUILD (a change to a timing-sensitive .html test file)...
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# [20:28] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
# [20:28] <jhford-work> (fwiw, i meant that pgo builds don't care about dontbuild)
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# [20:29] <espindola> !seen dolske,
# [20:29] <firebot> I've never seen a 'dolske,', sorry.
# [20:29] <espindola> !seen dolske,
# [20:29] <espindola> !seen dolske
# [20:29] <firebot> I've never seen a 'dolske,', sorry.
# [20:29] <firebot> dolske was last seen 10 hours, 2 minutes and 44 seconds ago, saying 'hahahaha awesome snowman http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2da_1323029383' in #foxymonkies.
# [20:29] <jhopkins> jhford-work: so would it make sense to have PGO builds care about DONTBUILD? or create a PGODONTBUILD ?
# [20:30] <jhford-work> i don't think it makes sense for PGO builds to care about DONTBUILD
# [20:30] <jhford-work> (or to create PGODONTBUILD)
# [20:30] <Ms2ger> Why not?
# [20:30] <khuey> what's wrong with the extension based filter?
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# [20:30] <Ms2ger> Why are PGO builds any different from other builds?
# [20:30] <jhford-work> by its nature, multiple changesets will be in a PGO build
# [20:30] <jhopkins> khuey: see philor's last comment
# [20:30] <Ms2ger> And multiple changesets are in any other build
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# [20:31] <jhford-work> unless, we checked for DONTBUILD in *every* changeset
# [20:31] <jhford-work> pgo builds are scheduled completely differently to regular builds
# [20:31] <evilpie> is there still somebody who closes my bug even on m-c ?
# [20:31] <Ms2ger> We figured out that was a bug, no?
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# [20:31] <Ms2ger> evilpie, no, that's your job as well
# [20:31] <khuey> jhopkins: mmm, true
# [20:31] <espindola> anyone else can review 702848? It is sync/satchel
# [20:31] <espindola> and js only :-)
# [20:32] <evilpie> Ms2ger give me m-i back ;O
# [20:32] <khuey> no
# [20:32] <khuey> a-
# [20:32] * reuben just bought Z-Type on the app store preview
# [20:32] <reuben> so exciting
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# [20:32] * jhammel couldn't get app store preview to work
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# [20:33] <@bz> anyone?
# [20:33] <jhammel> or at least couldn't buy any apps
# [20:33] <@bz> I'd really love to know what's up with https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=355c33d072c9
# [20:33] <@bz> I get "loading failed, error"
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# [20:34] <philor> bz: the repo was reset yesterday, that rev doesn't exist, so when we load https://hg.mozilla.org/try/json-pushes?full=1&changeset=355c33d072c9 it doesn't exist, so we can't do anything else because we don't have a pushlog
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# [20:34] <@bz> philor: oh
# [20:34] <@bz> philor: didn't realize there was a reset yesterday
# [20:34] <@bz> philor: I guess my other try pages were newer than that, ok
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# [20:34] <@bz> philor: thanks
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# [20:36] <philor> we should probably rethink that, since even though we can't show you the pushes, we still know what happened and the logs still exist, but we won't be rethinking it with my brain
# [20:36] * mcote is now known as mcote|bbiab
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# [20:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/a111d03d465c - Chris Lord - Bug 708683 - Guard more rigorously against bad viewport updates. r=kats a=android-only
# [20:41] <khuey> bsmedberg: when did we introduce nsDerivedSafe?
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# [20:41] <khuey> ehsan: ^?
# [20:41] <khuey> oh, you gave hte bug number
# [20:41] * khuey reads
# [20:41] <bsmedberg> 2011-09-26
# [20:41] <ehsan> that was quick
# [20:41] <khuey> I was more interested in a release
# [20:42] <khuey> that would be 9, right?
# [20:42] <bsmedberg> bug says mozilla9
# [20:42] <ehsan> it's not released yet
# [20:42] <Ms2ger> You can't do that in your head?
# [20:42] <ehsan> ues
# [20:42] <ehsan> *yes
# [20:42] <bsmedberg> the trains run, and I really don't keep track of which one is where any more
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# [20:48] <sicking> khuey/joe|sheriff: can i land a test-only patch?
# [20:48] <khuey> yes
# [20:48] <espindola> since try was reset, should we close 708632?
# [20:49] <philor> khuey: guess who's burning Win PGO?
# [20:49] <sicking> khuey: i'll land on inbound as usual right?
# [20:49] <khuey> philor: :-D
# [20:49] <khuey> sicking: no
# [20:49] <khuey> m-c
# [20:49] <sicking> cool
# [20:49] <khuey> hahaha
# [20:49] <khuey> time to go drinking
# [20:50] <philor> yup
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# [20:53] <jaws> taras: pong
# [20:53] <taras> jaws: so what's the plan on smooth scrolling landing?
# [20:54] <jaws> taras: i need to meet with limi and go over what changes we need to make. based on that discussion, i'll file dependent bugs
# [20:54] * NeilAway thwaps jhammel
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# [20:54] <mcmanus> oh dear.
# [20:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/096f185e573d - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708485 - Create "mobile" special bookmarks folder on DB creation (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [20:55] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0e227df7b536 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 708485 - Add Fennec bookmarks to special "mobile" folder (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [20:55] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/50b3a3a55715 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 709962 - Eliminate required table references in BrowserProvider's query interface (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [20:55] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0414fe2f9d73 - Jonas Sicking - Tests for Bug 706088. r=khuey. Also removes a now-obsolete test. r=bent. a=khuey
# [20:55] <taras> jaws: is there a meeting time?
# [20:55] <taras> i need to be in on that
# [20:56] <jaws> taras: no meeting scheduled yet
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# [20:56] <khuey> glandium: so splitting out uconv didn't help
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# [20:57] <jaws> taras: i'll make sure to include you on the meeting invite when i get a time soted out
# [20:57] <khuey> glandium: so I don't know if trying to remove the other stuff is worth any more effort at this point
# [20:57] <jaws> s/soted/sorted
# [20:58] <jwir3> ok, it's super creepy when the crashtests have screaming audio
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# [20:58] <@bz> jwir3: heh
# [20:59] <jwir3> :)
# [20:59] <@bz> jwir3: we have a bug on that, iirc
# [20:59] * khuey enjoys that second of hte mochitests
# [20:59] <Ms2ger> Also, mochitests
# [20:59] <khuey> why is fs so slow?
# [20:59] <khuey> I'm getting 90 KB/s
# [20:59] <khuey> :-(
# [21:00] <mwu> are you using fs2?
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# [21:01] <khuey> no
# [21:01] <khuey> is it faser?
# [21:01] <khuey> *faster?
# [21:01] <mwu> it's less deprecated, I guess
# [21:01] <khuey> heh
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# [21:01] <@bz> is it depressingly less?
# [21:01] <khuey> getting 60KB/s from it too
# [21:02] * khuey wonders if it's the VPN and not fs
# [21:02] <smaug> bz: should I review Bug 709256 now or wait until the patches pass on try?
# [21:02] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/300849c3dd10 - Andrew Halberstadt - Bug 708309 - Do not use zipfile.extract in mozbase components for peptest r=jhammel a=test-only
# [21:02] <mwu> hm I usually get faster speeds
# [21:02] <mwu> though I transfer from fs to my desktop first, which goes at near gigabit speeds
# [21:02] <taras> jaws: ok, can we schedule that today? if you want, I can do the scheduling.
# [21:02] <mwu> and then from my desktop over a ssh tunnel, which is fast enough
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# [21:03] <NeilAway> bz: so, about bug 122213, should we a) leave it as PR_Now, since that's good enough for the error console b) change the script error object to use JS_Now to match what the HUD is comparing the timestamps to c) create a new property d) something else?
# [21:04] <@bz> NeilAway: Fundamentally, it seems like the hud people just don't care about it actually working; they just want to pretend that it works
# [21:04] <@bz> neilaway: or so it seems to me
# [21:04] <gps> Mossop: I lied. I was invoking the test harness incorrectly, causing test failure. perhaps Unfocused's bitrot skills aren't as impressive as I thought
# [21:04] <@bz> neilaway: so quite honestly, I'm starting to not care very much...
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# [21:04] <jaws> taras: sounds good to me
# [21:04] <gavin> bz: er, what?
# [21:04] <@bz> neilaway: I just don't have the energy to try to explain to them yet again that their code is bonkers
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# [21:04] <taras> jaws: ok i'll do it
# [21:05] <@bz> neilaway: so "do whatever"?
# [21:05] <gavin> bz: what code is bonkers?/
# [21:05] <@bz> gavin: the hud code that tries to sort message
# [21:05] <gavin> the timestamp issues are precisely what's kept bug 611032 unfxied for so long
# [21:05] <gavin> (for better or worse)
# [21:05] <@bz> gavin: what timestamp issues?
# [21:05] <gavin> bz: yeah well it doesn't really have any better alternative given the state of our error reporting APIs
# [21:06] <@bz> gavin: uh
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# [21:06] <@bz> gavin: we _added_ API for this to our error reports
# [21:06] <@bz> gavin: or rather Mihai did
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# [21:06] <gavin> yes, but console.log and JS exceptions are reported/cached using 2 very different mechanisms
# [21:06] <@bz> gavin: at the time I tried to convince him that the code he was adding was wrong, and he didn't seem to care
# [21:06] <@bz> gavin: yes, I'm well aware
# [21:07] <gavin> bz: so what code could achieve the same effect and be right?
# [21:07] <@bz> gavin: we have at least three time sources in play: Date.now, PR_Now, and mozilla::Timestamp
# [21:07] <@bz> gavin: (well, and I suppose PR_IntervalNow)
# [21:07] <@bz> gavin: the "right" thing for sorting would be to expose mozilla::Timestamp in JS
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# [21:08] <@bz> gavin: imo
# [21:08] <gavin> so let's do that?
# [21:08] <@bz> gavin: fine by me. I tried to convice people to do that, and failed
# [21:08] <gavin> bet mihai would be happy to
# [21:08] <@bz> gavin: he wasn't last time I suggested it to him, iirc
# [21:08] <@bz> gavin: of course I could just be misremembering
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# [21:08] <msucan> i would be happy with that
# [21:08] <@bz> ok
# [21:08] <@bz> so let's do that
# [21:08] <Ms2ger> Excellent
# [21:09] <@bz> in which case we need separate timestamps for "sorting thing" and "wall-clock time thing"
# [21:09] <@bz> but that's fine
# [21:09] <@bz> (and of course e10s is the big unknown, but that's a PITA for sorting anyway)
# [21:09] <msucan> bz: back then i didn't not really find it very important that there could be cases where time can decrease
# [21:09] <@bz> yes, I know
# [21:09] <msucan> (it's not that i wasn't happy with the idea ;) )
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# [21:10] <@bz> ok
# [21:10] <@bz> am I still needed for something here?
# [21:10] <@bz> or can I get back to debugging this orange? ;)
# [21:11] <Ms2ger> No, first review that patch :)
# [21:11] <@bz> nope
# [21:11] <@bz> not right now
# [21:11] <@bz> probably tomorrow
# [21:12] * @bz needs to get some code in
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# [21:12] <Ms2ger> That works too
# [21:12] * Ms2ger prefers getting code out
# [21:12] * @bz is getting time out
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# [21:13] <khuey> Ms2ger: didn't help
# [21:13] <Ms2ger> Eh?
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# [21:13] <khuey> Ms2ger: we landed the uconv removal, and then what we backed out
# [21:13] <khuey> and it still fails
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# [21:14] <msucan> i still have a question, can we display the mozilla::timestamp value to the user? because the web console also needs to do this - it's not just for comparing and sorting
# [21:15] <dholbert> khuey, I've got a patch to land that's just a one-liner replacing "&&" with "||" in an "if" check ( https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=581136&action=diff ) -- could I get a=you for landing that on m-c?
# [21:15] <msucan> (sorry to be a noob on this)
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# [21:16] <khuey> dholbert: idk, that might generate a bunch more code :-P
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# [21:16] <dholbert> khuey, I suspect not. :)
# [21:16] <khuey> dholbert: a=me
# [21:16] <dholbert> khuey, \o/
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# [21:16] <@bz> msucan: display the value in what sense?
# [21:17] <@bz> msucan: what are you actually trying to display?
# [21:17] <jwir3> msucan: mozilla::timestamp, iirc, doesn't correspond to system clock time
# [21:17] <msucan> bz: display the date and time of when the error occured, in a human readable form
# [21:17] <@bz> msucan: then you want to track that separately
# [21:17] <msucan> bz: aha
# [21:17] <@bz> msucan: because mozilla::TimeStamp is not correlated to date and time very much
# [21:17] <@bz> msucan: e.g. it might not advance at all while the computer is asleep
# [21:17] <msucan> so for sorting we want a strictly increasing timestamp
# [21:17] <@bz> mscucan: afaik
# [21:18] <@bz> msucan: yep
# [21:18] <@bz> msucan: but for human-readable display you want actual dates
# [21:18] <msucan> and for display we want the system clock time
# [21:18] <msucan> right
# [21:18] <@bz> msucan: and don't care about precision all that much
# [21:18] <@bz> msucan: because fundamentally users don't care about sub-second precision
# [21:18] <@bz> msucan: certainly not about sub-millisecond
# [21:18] <msucan> that's why i didn't care about precision back then...
# [21:18] <@bz> msucan: that's the other issue, I guess
# [21:19] <@bz> msucan: TimeStamp used to be low-precision on Windows. But that's no longer the case
# [21:19] <msucan> so probably we need two properties then?
# [21:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/7604f82c29d0 - Daniel Holbert - Bug 709920: Be more sensitive in checking for zero-size viewBox in nsSVGPatternFrame::ConstructCTM. r=longsonr a=khuey
# [21:20] <@bz> yes
# [21:20] <@bz> imo
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# [21:21] <msucan> then that sounds fine
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# [21:21] <msucan> would it make sense to have these properties on all nsiconsolemessages? not just nsiscripterror2?
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# [21:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/65485f06a977 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 706667 - Change indentation of about:home layout files for consistency (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [21:21] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/a93bacda40f7 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 706667 - Remove unused properties from AboutHomeContent (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [21:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/e80376fab448 - Lucas Rocha - Bug 706667 - Organize/cleanup imports on AboutHomeContent (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
# [21:22] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/bdbc244778bc - Lucas Rocha - Bug 706667 - Change AboutHomeContent layout as per design (r=blassey, a=mfinkle)
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# [21:27] <roc> jorendorff: just my blog post, and the Chronomancer code itself
# [21:28] <roc> blog posts plural I guess
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# [21:28] <philor> unless we back out precise TimeStamp on Windows, of course, since it was the first thing I backed out for PGO bustage, maybe it really is entirely at fault
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# [21:29] <roc> jorendorff: the visualization of intra-function control flow is probably the best example, but the stack view also aggregates data across time so that each stack frame shows you the parameter values when the call happened
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# [21:30] <gregglind> roc, what project is this? Sounds intriguing!
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# [21:30] <margaret> khuey: can i get approval and/or priority landing status when the tree re-opens for bug 707886?
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# [21:30] <margaret> i really need people to start testing it
# [21:31] <margaret> (and the bugs that depend on it)
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# [21:31] <jorendorff> roc: I'm trying to convince jimb that saving/restoring the state of the world isn't enough, you really have to build the database -- those are very useful examples
# [21:31] <philor> heh. "tree reopens"
# [21:31] <khuey> margaret: priority landing maybe, but the tree isn't reopening anytime soon
# [21:32] <roc> gregglind: http://robert.ocallahan.org/2007/08/announcing-chronomancer_21.html
# [21:32] <margaret> ok, well the longer it's closed, the more patches are probably piling up to land
# [21:32] <khuey> yes, we know that
# [21:32] <margaret> so priority would be helpful, is what i'm saying
# [21:33] <margaret> i know everyone's work is important, but this is a big mobile priority
# [21:33] <margaret> so i feel like i should be doing all i can to be agressive :)
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# [21:34] <froydnj> bz: are you tweaking the XUL_REFLOW_MS probe as part of bug 709256 or somewhere else?
# [21:34] <khuey> margaret: is this something we actually want to ship in 11?
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# [21:35] <Ms2ger> Some people may certainly want it
# [21:35] <margaret> we want to ship it when we release fennec native, and the feature cutoff for that is the aurora cut
# [21:35] <khuey> ok
# [21:35] <khuey> I'll keep that in mind when we reopen
# [21:35] <khuey> I'm kind of heads down on getting to that point though :-)
# [21:35] <margaret> blassey or dougt can back me up on how important it is
# [21:36] <mfinkle> margaret, what's the overall increase in c++ lines?
# [21:36] <mfinkle> from your patch?
# [21:36] <mfinkle> cause I know a lot is just replacement
# [21:36] <roc> jorendorff: the chronicle tarball also has a PDF in it with documentation of the database engine http://code.google.com/p/chronicle-recorder/downloads/detail?name=chronicle.tar.bz2&can=2&;q=
# [21:36] <margaret> mfinkle: um, not many more lines
# [21:36] <roc> jorendorff: http://chronicle-recorder.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/chronicle/valgrind-3.3.1/docs/index.pdf
# [21:37] <khuey> roc: what's going on with the replay work that one of the research interns did last summer?
# [21:37] <khuey> anything?
# [21:37] <roc> it's good, it needs more work
# [21:38] <roc> no-one's working on it now, but we're hoping to hire that intern and get another intern involved next summer
# [21:38] <khuey> cool
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# [21:39] <Ms2ger> Guys, I need to contact the Netscape Client International Team, anybody know how to reach them?
# [21:39] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/296ce6c97770 - Ed Morley - Update NSPR to NSPR_4_9_BETA5 tag. Fixes bug 702997, bug 700376 & bug 687380; a=ted
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# [21:40] <khuey> Ms2ger: well first you get into your time machine ...
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# [21:40] <Ms2ger> Can we get an intern to create one?
# [21:40] <froydnj> what a resume item
# [21:40] <jorendorff> we were just talking about that
# [21:42] <bjarne> Anyone with experience from interpreting Tp4-results?
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# [21:44] <edmorley> catlee++
# [21:44] <edmorley> jhford++
# [21:44] <catlee> yay us!
# [21:44] <jhford> :D
# [21:44] <khuey> what do?
# [21:44] <catlee> what'd we do?
# [21:44] <edmorley> thanks for getting those in :-)
# [21:44] <edmorley> (pgo changes)
# [21:44] <jhford> cool
# [21:44] <jhford> i hope they both help
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# [21:44] <khuey> coalescing?
# [21:45] <edmorley> yeah, and freq
# [21:45] <edmorley> now 3 hours rather than 6
# [21:45] <edmorley> on inbound
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# [21:45] <catlee> are they live?
# [21:45] <catlee> or penidng reconfig?
# [21:45] <catlee> pending
# [21:46] <edmorley> pending I presume, but checked in at least :-)
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# [21:48] <cpearce> glandium: what reftest failures did you get with your patch for bug 709721? We've got some random orange in the video reftests...
# [21:48] <jhford> they should go live tonight
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# [21:55] <ehsan> khuey: how do you get PGO builds on try?
# [21:55] <khuey> ehsan: set MOZ_PGO=1 in hte mozconfig
# [21:55] <ehsan> khuey: do I need to export it?
# [21:56] * Parts: jhford-work (jhford-wor@moz-2EB93484.info) (Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
# [21:56] <khuey> ehsan: https://hg.mozilla.org/try/rev/6bc5212c02e6
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# [21:57] <ehsan> ty
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# [21:58] <Ms2ger> How do I run a single xpcshell test?
# [21:58] * jhammel|lunch is now known as jhammel
# [21:58] <Ms2ger> khuey? :)
# [21:59] <mcpherrin> Ms2ger: SOLO_FILE="foo.js" make -C path/to/tests check-one
# [21:59] <mcpherrin> from objdir
# [21:59] <Ms2ger> Ta
# [22:01] * khuey can't do everything at once :-P
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# [22:01] <dolske> do all the things!
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# [22:03] <ejpbruel> does gdb not use short circuit evaluation in its conditional breakpoints?
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# [22:06] <@bz> erm
# [22:06] <@bz> getBoundingClientRect is not quickstubbed?
# [22:06] <@bz> wtf?
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# [22:07] <vlad> heh
# [22:08] <vlad> would probably be worth printing something every time a non-quickstubbed dom call is hit
# [22:08] <vlad> and running that build across a bunch of sites
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# [22:10] <@bz> heh
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# [22:10] <@bz> where would someone familiar with the devtools tests hang out?
# [22:11] * Mook_as assumes #devtools
# [22:11] * @bz tries
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# [22:21] <NeilAway> msucan/gavin: so, do you want to a) keep timeStamp as the date and create a new property for the monotonic timestamp later b) create a new property (named what?) which is the date and keep timeStamp and turn it into a monotonic timestamp later
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# [22:21] <gavin> a)
# [22:21] <msucan> a)
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# [22:23] <roc> is splinter broken?
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# [22:23] <@bz> "TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/browser/browser/devtools/highlighter/test/browser_inspector_highlighter.js | Test timed out NEXT ERROR"
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# [22:23] <@bz> wtf?
# [22:23] * @bz cries
# [22:24] <@bz> what kind of dumb timeout is that?
# [22:24] <gavin> he browser-chrome test timeout?
# [22:24] <@bz> yes
# [22:24] <@bz> I mean...
# [22:24] <@bz> how effing short is it?
# [22:24] <gavin> 30s
# [22:24] <@bz> and why?
# [22:24] * @bz cries more
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# [22:24] <@bz> ok
# [22:24] * @bz goes to look for where that's defined so he can turn it off
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# [22:24] <gavin> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/testing/mochitest/browser-test.js#2
# [22:24] <@bz> gavin: do you know offhand?
# [22:24] <@bz> thanks
# [22:25] <gavin> as to why, it's because tests that take longer than that are generally broken
# [22:25] <gavin> and waiting forever for broken tests increases test time
# [22:26] <@bz> ok
# [22:27] <@bz> but...
# [22:27] <@bz> this also means it's impossible to debug a chrome test without changing the test harness first
# [22:27] <@bz> if it's failing
# [22:27] <mak> bz: you can use requestLongerTimeout(number) where number will be multiplied by 30s
# [22:27] <mak> bz: and thus delay the default timeout
# [22:27] <@bz> mak: thanks
# [22:27] <@bz> mak: I already have a build with the changed harness
# [22:27] <khuey> or start the harness with --timeout=0
# [22:28] <@bz> I started the harness with --debugger=gdb
# [22:28] <@bz> how about it assumes --timeout=0 when I do that?
# [22:28] <khuey> bz: 649454
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# [22:28] <@bz> great
# [22:28] <froydnj> and there's already a bug...this is MOZILLA!
# [22:29] <@bz> ok
# [22:29] * @bz gives up on debugging this, has to go
# [22:29] * Ms2ger curses encodings
# [22:29] <@bz> thanks, timeout!
# [22:29] * bz is now known as bz_away
# [22:29] <Ms2ger> Bye, bz
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# [22:44] <Ms2ger> #define uGetFormat(uT, item) (((((PRUint16 *)uT) + (uT)->offsetToFormatArray)[(item)>> 2 ] >> (((item)% 4 ) << 2)) & 0x0f)
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# [22:44] <Ms2ger> Can someone translate that?
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# [22:44] <froydnj> looks like a struct with a trailing array (or several)?
# [22:45] <Ms2ger> Just one
# [22:45] <Fallen|mac> its probably one of those "if you can read this, you stink" code snippets ;-)
# [22:45] <Ms2ger> http://xkcd.com/315/?
# [22:46] <espindola> ok to push https://bug710237.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=581289
# [22:46] <espindola> js only
# [22:46] <bhearsum> jcranmer: if you're not busy, can you tell me if what i put in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=695309#c51 is what you were hoping for?
# [22:47] <Ms2ger> espindola, a=me if you fix the commit message :)
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# [22:47] <espindola> Ms2ger, by adding the a= and removing the try line?
# [22:47] <Ms2ger> Indeed
# [22:48] <espindola> will do, thanks
# [22:48] <Ms2ger> (Oh, I didn't notice the first line was there)
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# [22:49] <khuey> "Fig 1: Technical diagram of a method call on an XPCWrappedNative."
# [22:49] <khuey> bholley++
# [22:49] <Ms2ger> No pic no proof
# [22:49] <khuey> http://bholley.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/typed-arrays-supported-in-xpconnect/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
# [22:50] <taras> jduell: ping
# [22:50] <Ms2ger> Hah
# [22:50] <froydnj> bholley++
# [22:51] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/6bb5ecf56600 - Rafael Ávila de Espíndola - Bug 710237 - remove unused variable. r=mak. a=Ms2ger.
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# [22:54] <jprmc> khuey: how are we looking on the PGO builds?
# [22:54] <khuey> jprmc: cutting out that code didn't help at all :-(
# [22:54] <jprmc> hmm
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# [22:55] <khuey> got a couple theories, I'm downloading the ancient compiler now
# [22:55] <jprmc> ok
# [22:55] * khuey wishes he could get more than 100 KB/s from fs
# [22:55] <jprmc> khuey: anything others can do to help you?
# [22:55] <jprmc> khuey: can you rent a build slave and hack directly on that?
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# [22:56] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/57d355d65a64 - Kartikaya Gupta - Bug 707675 - Change OOM log level from error to warning. r=blassey a=java-only
# [22:56] <khuey> jprmc: Bas is working on making skia disablable for windows so we can do that if we think it'll help, and ehsan is testing something else on try
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# [22:56] <jprmc> khuey: ok
# [22:56] <khuey> jprmc: I've got the compiler mostly downloaded, and my machine is faster than the build machines, so I don't think renting one will help
# [22:57] <khuey> just gotta bear the cycle times :-/
# [22:57] <jcranmer> bhearsum: if you saw the newsgroup counts go all unread before running that script, it's pretty much useless
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# [22:57] <lurking> khuey: I dont how how this table is created or updated, but here is the link ADU https://metrics.mozilla.com/stats/firefox.shtml
# [22:58] <bhearsum> jcranmer: i only ran the script after they went unread
# [22:58] <jcranmer> bhearsum: oh well
# [22:58] <bhearsum> should i try to do it right before i notice the issue, and also right after?
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# [22:58] <khuey> lurking: oh that's neat
# [22:58] * khuey bookmarks
# [22:58] <jcranmer> the problem sums up like this:
# [22:58] <jcranmer> we get a source of corruption, which resets everything without triggering new notificaitons
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# [22:59] <jcranmer> then we get "correct" data, which gets interpreted into the "everything is marekd as unread"
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# [23:06] <espindola> windows experts, does link.exe has support for anything like apple's "-undefined dynamic_lookup"?
# [23:06] <khuey> what does -undefined dynamic_lookup
# [23:06] <espindola> if a symbol is not found
# [23:06] <espindola> instead of reporting an error
# [23:06] <espindola> you get a runtime lookup
# [23:07] <espindola> with something like that we could rerun only the link of XUL
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# [23:07] <espindola> removing a few .obj at a time
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# [23:07] <espindola> and checking which ones have the largest impact in virtual space used
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# [23:08] <khuey> there's no equivalent afaik
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# [23:08] <espindola> :-(
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# [23:10] <jprmc> khuey: ok, thanks - i'll keep watching dev-platform for updates
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# [23:10] <khuey> jprmc: yeah, I'll keep the bug/newsgroups updated
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# [23:11] <jprmc> khuey: if i can whip anyone let me know :-)
# [23:11] <khuey> jprmc: if I think of anything I will
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# [23:12] <jprmc> khuey: oh, and don't forget graphite can go stilll :-)
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# [23:12] <khuey> yep
# [23:14] <igor> is it ok to land js/src-only warning fix from bug 708548?
# [23:14] <khuey> yes
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# [23:15] * philor tries to come up with some scheme that would result in a merge to inbound and then a js/src/ push there
# [23:16] <khuey> inbound is kinda broken ;-)
# [23:16] <philor> ayuh
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# [23:16] <philor> though not in the bits I care about for that, the js shell builds on 10.6 that have been broken since early August and might be fixed by that NSPR landing
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# [23:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/21e55816051d - Igor Bukanov - bug 708548 - removal unused declarations and definitions of *OnTrace functions. r=dvander a=khuey-on-irc
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# [23:21] <glandium> cpearce: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?noignore=1&tree=Try&rev=683e92eb1df0
# [23:24] <khuey> ETA 02:59
# [23:24] * khuey watches it go down
# [23:25] <glandium> khuey: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=709721#c12
# [23:25] <glandium> (fwiw)
# [23:25] <khuey> glandium: I saw
# [23:25] <khuey> I wonder if it's pushing us just a little bit under the limit
# [23:25] <khuey> or if it's helping a lot
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# [23:26] <glandium> khuey: we should probably monitor memory use on the buildbots
# [23:26] <khuey> yeah
# [23:26] <khuey> we definitely want advance warning of this next time
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# [23:27] <jaws> cpearce: ping?
# [23:27] <cpearce> glandium: I can't repro the test failures locally with your patch applied FWIW :(
# [23:28] * mdas is now known as mdas|afk
# [23:28] <cpearce> glandium: but I've never seen aspect-ratio-1a.xhtml fail like that before. there's know assertion failures in the other aspect-ratio tests though, but not test failures...
# [23:28] <jaws> cpearce: can you respond to dolske's question here? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708150#c6
# [23:28] <cpearce> jaws: pong
# [23:29] <cpearce> jaws: oops, yeah, I had a response half written, forgot to post it.
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# [23:31] <glandium> cpearce: note the try build was without pgo
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# [23:35] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/a9337c4d018c - Margaret Leibovic - Bug 710240 - Tapping on "Tap to play" link reloads page instead of playing plugin. r=dolske a=no-cpp
# [23:35] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/41ceaff2e5f1 - Margaret Leibovic - Bug 702653 - Add prefs for flash activation on demand/always on/off. r=mfinkle a=no-cpp
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# [23:43] <NeilAway> msucan/gavin/bz: ok, so since we're keeping the existing timeStamp as the date, should we change it from PR_Now to JS_Now?
# [23:44] <gavin> I don't see any downside to that
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# [23:45] <philor> huh, igor broke the *compiler*?
# [23:45] <khuey> well we've already broken one compiler
# [23:45] <khuey> what's another?
# [23:46] <philor> I'd just say "busted slave" but that's what I said about the very first WinPGO
# [23:46] <jhammel> great, we've made philor even more paranoid
# [23:46] <khuey> I didn't think that was possible
# [23:47] <philor> ah, https://build.mozilla.org/buildapi/recent/moz2-linux64-slave09
# [23:47] <philor> coop|buildduty: kill it, please?
# [23:47] <coop|buildduty> philor: i.e. disable the slave?
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# [23:47] <philor> apparently there was some good reason for it being gone in late November
# [23:48] <philor> coop|buildduty: yes please
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# [23:48] <philor> it's failing on clobbers, so we can't just blame it on the need to clobber after its long absence
# [23:48] <zpao> any cocoa people around? i'm trying to get back to nsGlobalWindow from inside nsCocoaWindow & i'm a bit lost
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# [23:50] <gavin> zpao: you generally can't do that
# [23:50] <gavin> why do you need to?
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# [23:52] <mwu> is that a real red
# [23:52] <philor> no
# [23:52] <philor> badslave
# [23:52] <mwu> ah
# [23:52] <zpao> gavin: i'm trying to get lion's full screen working, but pressing the os button (not our toolbarbutton) doesn't trigger "fullscreen" events
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# [23:54] <zpao> gavin: which means we're going to be in a confusing state, so i'm trying to intercept the click (through windowWillEnterFullScreen for the time being) and then call globalWindow::SetFullScreen
# [23:54] <blassey> coop|buildduty: should we close the tree for the bad slave that's causing burning?
# [23:54] <blassey> or can we push over it?
# [23:55] <philor> mmm, second disconnect of the day in Win M4, we must need to get some other Chatty Testy in there to STFU
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# [23:56] <coop|buildduty> blassey: which bad slave? i just disabled moz2-linux64-slave09
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# [23:56] <coop|buildduty> if that's the only one, tree should be able to stay open
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# [23:56] <dolske> zpao: look at how the maximize-window button works, maybe?
# [23:56] <coop|buildduty> for 6 hours until the downtime tonight
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# [23:56] <blassey> coop|buildduty: that's the one
# [23:56] <blassey> thanks
# [23:56] <coop|buildduty> ok, np
# [23:56] <dolske> possible yo might need to post an event back to yourself, and handle that with the other stuff
# [23:56] <sfink> ted, ted2, ted666: ping
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# [23:59] <zpao> dolske: good idea, but it looks like we just dispatch sizemode events there
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# Session Close: Wed Dec 14 00:00:00 2011

The end :)