/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2011-12-25 / end

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# Session Start: Sun Dec 25 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [00:52] <mounir> khuey|christmas: around by any chance?
# [00:53] <khuey|christmas> mounir: indeed
# [00:55] <mounir> khuey|christmas: android's mozconfig have only debug and nightly
# [00:55] <mounir> there is yet another mozconfig used for other builds?
# [00:56] <khuey|christmas> debug is debug, nightly is opt
# [00:56] <khuey|christmas> there's no release presumably because we haven't released a native ui build
# [00:56] <mounir> khuey|christmas: that's the case for XUL mozconfigs too
# [00:57] <mounir> anyway, will put some if then
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# [00:58] <mounir> khuey|christmas: oh, MOZ_UPDATE_CHANNEL can be "nigthly", "aurora", "beta" and... "final"?
# [00:59] <mounir> hmm, release it appears
# [01:00] <khuey|christmas> right
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# [01:07] <mounir> khuey|christmas: you just got a Christmas review :)
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# [01:08] <khuey|christmas> :-P
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# [02:18] <paul_irish> looking for a link that covers spidermonkey's coverage of ES Harmony features
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# [02:27] <JonathanS> crud, ISO updated C :/
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# [02:34] <mcpherrin> JonathanS: just in time for GCC to consider finishing C99!
# [02:35] <JonathanS> mcpherrin, I heard about MSVC doesn't supports C99
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# [02:40] <Mathnerd314> so I want a new product from mozilla: FLOSS social network
# [02:41] <Mathnerd314> PMO isn't enough
# [02:41] <stuart> why would that help most users?
# [02:41] <Mathnerd314> because they can't find what's relevant to them
# [02:41] <stuart> do you really want a social network for that?
# [02:42] <Mathnerd314> yeah, people are good at categorizing, machines are good at sorting into categories
# [02:43] <Mathnerd314> I have a few diagrams if you want
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# [02:43] <Mathnerd314> copied from this amazingly-relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axUgEAgrSB8
# [02:43] <darktrojan> patches are welcome :-P
# [02:44] <Mathnerd314> it's not code, but knuth is pretty good at explaining algorithms
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# [02:44] <Mathnerd314> basically, you can build a social network on top of that, and it'll work pretty well.
# [02:44] <Mathnerd314> and the web is the info to exchange on it
# [02:44] <Mathnerd314> HTML5 etc.
# [02:46] <Mathnerd314> basically, mozilla should write a search engine
# [02:46] <Mathnerd314> knuth gives an algorithm for matching squares (people) to circles (the info they want)
# [02:46] <Mathnerd314> what more do you need? :p
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# [02:47] <Mathnerd314> I guess that's what the new contract w/ Google is for
# [02:50] <Mathnerd314> everyoen too busy coding to chat?
# [02:51] <darktrojan> you do know what the date is, right?
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# [02:52] <khuey|christmas> I'm pretty sure if all it took to make a successful social network or search engine was copying a few algorithms out of knuth there would be a lot more of them
# [02:52] <Mathnerd314> yeah, I myself am alternating oysters and chatting...
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# [02:53] <Mathnerd314> khuey|christmas: these aren't published yet, book is in Feb or March.
# [02:53] <Mathnerd314> watch the video, 'k?
# [02:54] <Mathnerd314> then talk about new products and come up with something
# [02:54] <Mathnerd314> that's all I want for christmas
# [02:55] <Mathnerd314> 2 hours of your time
# [03:00] <Mathnerd314> whoever "you" is
# [03:01] <Mathnerd314> oh, wait, that's me. ugh. :-/
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# [03:06] <hub> FLOSS social network would be to push / federate Diaspora and status.net
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# [03:13] <Mathnerd314> hmm, I am thinking of Facebook's friend recommendations - can diaspora / status.net do those?
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# [03:30] <hub> Mathnerd314: it is just a matter of JFDI. but that does not drive the adoption, which is IMHO the biggest problem
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# [03:40] <Mathnerd314> hub: I'm working on that end. what do I adopt?
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# [08:08] <ewong> in bugzilla, how do I ask for MOA?
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# [08:10] <philor> you ask the module owner for review
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# [08:12] <darktrojan> I love the way people wait for answers around here
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# [08:34] <dolske> ewong: first you need to go to easter island, then you... oh
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# [09:31] * dolske stays up late to see if philor is putting presents under the tree.
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# [09:36] <philor> I've got a lump of coal for someone
# [09:36] <darktrojan> he usually just puts stars on it
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# [09:39] <dolske> oh, good, coal this year. last's years gift was, well, semi-soft.
# [09:40] * philor has a pleasant read through http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/tests/mochitest/general/497633.html?force=1
# [09:40] <philor> can't believe that would sometimes keep trying to run after the test is hypothetically over, it seems so solid and sensible and straightforward
# [09:45] <philor> maybe I should just cut to the chase and disable it
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# [09:55] <dolske> what? before it's had 400 failures? you monster.
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# [10:07] <darktrojan> that is a stunning test
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# [11:18] <boiled_sugar> hi
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# [11:18] <boiled_sugar> I tried compiling mozilla-central on windows, but shlibsign crashes
# [11:19] <boiled_sugar> "Couldn't launch the application correctly (0xc000007b)" or something like that
# [11:21] <boiled_sugar> any idea to fix it?
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# [11:52] <edmorley> philor|away: as much as you joke about lumps of coal, my sister is actually getting some coal from my parents
# [11:53] <edmorley> (admittedly for the open fire in her house that she doesn't have any fuel for)
# [11:56] <edmorley> Happy Christmas everyone! (timezones permitting) :-)
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# [11:56] <ewong> edmorley: Merry Christmas!
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# [11:57] <ewong> boiled_sugar: I think a log of your building process would help (past e it into pastebin.mozilla.org)
# [11:59] <darktrojan> and to you, ed
# [11:59] <darktrojan> it's Christmas almost everywhere for the next 7 minutes
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# [12:08] <edmorley> (apart from countries that don't celebrate it :-))
# [12:08] <edmorley> anyway, time for food mmmmm
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# [12:08] <darktrojan> it's there too whether they like it or not
# [12:08] <darktrojan> :D
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# [12:55] <boiled_sugar> ewong: log? the output of the msys console?
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# [13:09] <ewong> boiled_sugar: yes
# [13:10] <ewong> boiled_sugar: are you building FF via |make -f client.mk|?
# [13:10] <boiled_sugar> python -OO build/pymake/make.py -f client.mk profiledbuild
# [13:10] <boiled_sugar> without profiledbuild it compiles
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# [13:12] <ewong> oh.. pymake hmmm
# [13:12] * ewong wonders if "python -OO build/pymake/make.py -f client.mk profiledbuild 2>&1 |tee ./build.log| works with pymake
# [13:17] <darktrojan> did you do a realbuild before the profiledbuild?
# [13:19] <boiled_sugar> realbuild?
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# [13:21] <darktrojan> that is required, is it not, ewong?
# [13:21] * darktrojan doesn't know much about profiled builds
# [13:21] <ewong> darktrojan: good question.. I don't know about pymake or profiledbuilds..
# [13:22] <darktrojan> what are you trying to achieve, boiled_sugar?
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# [13:24] <boiled_sugar> get a profiledbuild'ed mozilla-central
# [13:24] <evilpie> good morning
# [13:24] <evilpie> i hope you all have/had a nice christmas
# [13:24] <boiled_sugar> *getting
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# [13:24] <evilpie> Ms2ger did you enjoy it?
# [13:25] <Ms2ger> Very much, you?
# [13:25] <darktrojan> I see, if it's more than just 'build it and make it go' then I probably am of no use
# [13:26] <darktrojan> on that note, goodnight
# [13:26] <evilpie> Ms2ger, oh I did, i bought myself a new keyboard so my grandma could give it to me :O
# [13:26] <evilpie> what did you get?
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# [13:26] <Ms2ger> New headphones and a couple of books
# [13:27] <ckvk> Ms2ger, which headphones?
# [13:27] <Ms2ger> Pioneer SE-MJ31
# [13:27] <evilpie> i got the steve jobs biography from my other grandma
# [13:28] <ckvk> iCon?
# [13:28] <evilpie> and i think of buying a laptop after the holidays, also i still have no real idea what i should get
# [13:29] <ckvk> something i ned to do as well. wht kinda config wud be good for dev?
# [13:29] <ckvk> and some gaming
# [13:30] <evilpie> the thing is i am kind of fond of the sony design, but they don
# [13:31] <ckvk> laptops scare me now, i have rsi :(
# [13:31] <ckvk> i prefer being able to move my kb aroud
# [13:32] <evilpie> looks like everybody around here has that
# [13:32] <ckvk> damn! :\
# [13:33] <bsmith> Ms2ger: I understand that "catch (e if e instanceof QuotaExceededError)" is nonstandard but what about "catch (e) { pass = e instanceof QuotaExceededError }"?
# [13:33] <evilpie> mhm maybe i should change something before i get that, too
# [13:33] <Ms2ger> Sure
# [13:34] <Ms2ger> Though I guess we don't actually support that yet
# [13:34] <ckvk> change something ?
# [13:35] <bsmith> Ms2ger: what is the thing we don't support?
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# [13:36] <Ms2ger> bsmith, using 'e instanceof QuotaExceededError' instead of 'e.code == DOMException.QUOTA_EXCEEDED_ERR' is a pretty new pattern
# [13:37] <bsmith> Ms2ger: I see.
# [13:37] <bsmith> I think either of those is better than: "ex.toString().search(/TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR/);"
# [13:37] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [13:38] <Ms2ger> (Bug 691017)
# [13:38] <evilpie> i am very pleased how this bug started rolling
# [13:39] <evilpie> but i looks like he didn
# [13:39] <evilpie> 't actually fix my review comments in the last version
# [13:39] <bsmith> Ms2ger: got it.
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# [13:39] <bsmith> But https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Statements/try...catch makes it look like we already support the "e instanceof QuotaExceededError" style
# [13:39] <bsmith> Is that not the case?
# [13:39] <nigelb> what the heck.
# [13:40] <nigelb> Browsing works on aurora, not on nightly.
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# [13:42] <Ms2ger> bsmith, yeah, we support 'e if e instanceof'
# [13:42] <evilpie> but other browsers don
# [13:42] <evilpie> 't
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# [13:42] * boiled_sugar has got the log
# [13:42] <Ms2ger> But not the *Error objects for DOMExceptions
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# [13:42] <boiled_sugar> but the pastebin doesn't work
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# [13:43] <Ms2ger> So it'd have to be catch (e if e instanceof DOMException) { is (e.code...
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# [13:44] <bsmith> Ms2ger: or "catch (e) { pass = e instanceof DOMException && e.code == ... }"
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# [13:44] <bsmith> which should work for everybody
# [13:44] <Ms2ger> Indeed
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# [13:47] <boiled_sugar> here is the log http://privatepaste.com/4c0a76d8d1
# [13:48] <bsmith> OK, so to fully support this API, such that applications can handle errors with the new WebAPI error model, we have to fix bug 691017.
# [13:48] <boiled_sugar> does anyone know why shlibsign doesn't work?
# [13:48] <bsmith> But, it seems reasonable to me to land this code before fixing bug 691017, and file a follow-up bug for changing the tests to the "e instanceof QuotaExceededError" variety
# [13:49] <bsmith> Ms2ger evilpie: Thanks for your help
# [13:51] * NeilAway wonders what pass = is
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# [13:52] <evilpie> NeilAway: an assignment ?
# [13:54] <bsmith> try { f(x); pass = false; }
# [13:54] <bsmith> catch (e) { pass = e instanceof DOMException && e.code == <whatever>; }
# [13:54] <bsmith> ok(pass, "Exception was the correct type")
# [13:54] <bsmith> NeilAway ^
# [13:55] <smaug> btw, anyone seeing regressions in cycle collector handling since Friday, please file new bugs and make them block bug 712743
# [13:55] <bsmith> If thre is anothre convention that is already commonly used for testing that the correct exception is thrown, I am happy to use that instead
# [13:55] <smaug> would be great to know if that bug has decreased CC times
# [13:57] <khuey|christmas> bsmith: that's generally how it's done
# [13:59] <NeilAway> bsmith: oh, a flag, I was confused by python's "pass" keyword
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# [14:17] <bsmith> Ms2ger: in the bug, you said that the XPConnect typed array support "requires the caller to explicitly pass the length of the array. That's not a problem for internal APIs, but doesn't fly for Web APIs."
# [14:17] <bsmith> I don't understand this. If I pass a typed array to said function, can't XPConnect just take the length of the typed array and automatically pass it to the native method?
# [14:19] <bsmith> In this API, and in the future DOMCrypt API, there are going to be a lot of methods implemented in native code that could make use of such a mechanism, if they could just accept a plain ArrarBufferView from the JS side
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# [15:06] <evilpie> bsmith well it could, but then the api wouldn
# [15:06] <evilpie> 't really be compatible with native code
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# [15:40] <evilpie> shit!
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# [16:46] <bz> http://graphs.mozilla.org/api/test/runs/revisions?revision=4e5e4aa72752&revision=146f2c7559d4
# [16:46] <bz> not good
# [16:46] <bz> where do I file that?
# [16:48] <khuey|christmas> the 500?
# [16:48] <bz> yes
# [16:48] <bz> which breaks compare-talos
# [16:48] <bz> because that's using URIs like the above to get data
# [16:48] <khuey|christmas> good question
# [16:48] <khuey|christmas> server ops?
# [16:48] * bz is filing on graph server for now
# [16:49] * bz can try that too
# [16:49] <bz> where's server ops?
# [16:49] <khuey|christmas> mozilla.org::?
# [16:49] <bz> thanks
# [16:50] <bz> moved
# [16:51] <bz> another interesting question
# [16:51] <bz> why no B link for Windows at https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=146f2c7559d4 ?
# [16:52] <khuey|christmas> maybe buildbot is swallowing jobs again
# [16:53] * bz sorta wants to see the build log to make sure that /arch:sse2 was used
# [16:54] <khuey|christmas> look at ftp?
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# [17:02] <bz> ah, build has appeared!
# [17:02] <bz> yay
# [17:02] <smaug> oh, interesting. tbpl creates quite a bit contentlist objects, which are black when CCing
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# [17:07] <bz> cl : Command line warning D9002 : ignoring unknown option '/arch:sse2'
# [17:11] <wg9s> bz: I have seen this before. Builds seem to dissapear after they complete for a while. not sure if it is untill the log is available or what.
# [17:11] <wg9s> fixes for the Android nightly bustage have supposedly been checked into l10n-central. Anyound around to try retriggering it?
# [17:12] <bz> khuey|christmas: any idea why cl seems to not recognize that option?
# [17:12] <bz> smaug: hmm
# [17:12] <bz> smaug: what does black mean?
# [17:12] <bz> oh, hrm
# [17:12] <bz> does "SSE" need to be caps?
# [17:13] <bz> apparently
# [17:14] * bz pushes to try again
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# [17:25] <evilpie> i just celebrated christmas on tbpl
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# [17:26] <bz> red and green?
# [17:27] <khuey|christmas> bz: uh, no
# [17:27] <khuey|christmas> that's weird
# [17:27] <bz> khuey|christma: I just tried pushing as /arch:SSE2
# [17:27] <bz> khuey|christmas: we'll see how that goes
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# [17:27] <evilpie> bz yeah
# [17:27] <khuey|christmas> bz: you're looking at the 32 bit log, and not the 64 bit log, right?
# [17:28] <bz> khuey|christmas: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=8152976&tree=Try&full=1
# [17:29] <evilpie> i approve of
# [17:29] <evilpie> SSE2
# [17:32] <wg9s> someone has attach what is probably malware as an attachment to bug 398534. what do we normally do about that?
# [17:32] <khuey|christmas> bz: that's ... uh ... weird
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# [17:33] <khuey|christmas> bz: maybe it is case sensitive
# [17:33] * khuey|christmas has no idea
# [17:33] * bz will see
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# [17:34] <jdm> wg9s: someone with permissions hides it
# [17:34] <wg9s> I suspect this is probably not hte only bug
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# [17:43] <NeilAway> khuey|christmas, bz: definitely case sensitive, I just tried it locally
# [17:44] <bz> NeilAway: thanks
# [17:44] * bz notes that on gcc -msse2 doesn't help much
# [17:44] <bz> but we'll see with msvc
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# [17:46] <Callek> bz: your SSE2 push, probably worth a separate push with (or without) PGO=1 as well
# [17:46] <Callek> so we can have the comparison :-)
# [17:46] <bz> Callek: er, yeah
# [17:46] <Callek> (I know we *ship* with PGO so thats the most relevant choice)
# [17:46] <bz> Callek: want to do that?
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# [17:47] <Callek> I'm not on a system with my ssh key at this moment :(
# [17:47] <Callek> so tunneling into the one I have will be a PITA
# [17:47] * bz can't understand the pgo instructions
# [17:47] <bz> so.....
# [17:48] <Callek> khuey|christmas: |mk_add_options MOZ_PGO=1| right?
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# [17:48] * bz is not at the top of his game today
# [17:49] <Callek> bz: yep thats it
# [17:49] <Callek> you'd want to add that to "whatever" mozconfig the build is using
# [17:49] <bz> ok
# [17:50] <bz> that's for linux and win?
# [17:50] <Callek> http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mozilla/browser/config/mozconfigs/
# [17:50] <Callek> yea, mac doesn't do PGO atm, iirc
# [17:50] <Callek> win32, linux32, and linux64
# [17:50] <bz> ok
# [17:50] * bz is not building mac anyway
# [17:50] <bz> because I only care about 32-bit builds here
# [17:51] <evilpie> should i take the hit and read a 30 pages long discussion of ieee 754 ?
# [17:51] <khuey|christmas> Callek: yeah
# [17:51] <bz> evilpie: yes
# [17:51] <bz> evilpie: "know your enemy" and all that
# [17:51] <Callek> evilpie: of course, if you celebrate christmas, do it tomorrow
# [17:52] <Callek> evilpie: no use reading about ieee754 on X-Mas, unless, you know, you consider that a good present
# [17:52] <evilpie> well we celbrated yesterday
# [17:54] <evilpie> i guess that's more like torture resistance training
# [17:55] <bz> torture?
# [17:55] <bz> it should be fun reading
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# [18:02] <evilpie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d3_DjiLLDfo lol
# [18:03] <evilpie> ups sorry, wrong channel
# [18:09] <evilpie> bz: how do i see the perfomance of these builds?
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# [18:14] <bz> evilpie: compare https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=08e1a5a6afc0 to https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=4f81468ed6a5 once the runs are done
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# [18:17] <Mathnerd314> ok, I want this but open-source: http://www.thebrain.com/products/personalbrain/download/
# [18:19] <Mathnerd314> reimplement http://assets.thebrain.com/documents/PersonalBrain-6-Guide.pdf using Gecko
# [18:19] <Mathnerd314> anyone understand that?
# [18:20] <evilpie> bz i am serious here, how do i find out how fast this is?
# [18:20] <bz> evilpie: which "this"?
# [18:20] <bz> evilpie: and by what metric?
# [18:21] <evilpie> bz didn't you intent the speed of those two builds?
# [18:21] <bz> yes
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# [18:22] <bz> so I'm waiting for them to compile
# [18:22] <bz> which hasn't happened yet
# [18:22] <Mathnerd314> bz: read the manual which I linked! :p
# [18:22] <bz> once that happens, talos tests will start on them both
# [18:22] <Mathnerd314> http://assets.thebrain.com/documents/PersonalBrain-6-Guide.pdf
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# [18:22] <Mathnerd314> it's a nicer interface for firefox
# [18:22] <Mathnerd314> *the web
# [18:23] <bz> evilpie: also, once the builds are done you will be able to download the resulting binaries
# [18:23] <bz> evilpie: and run tests of your choice on them....
# [18:23] <Mathnerd314> bz: what are these test builds?
# [18:23] <bz> Mathnerd314: one is identical to current nightlies
# [18:23] <evilpie> bz don't we have some automatic measurements, too
# [18:23] <bz> Mathnerd314: the other assumes SSE2
# [18:24] <bz> evilpie: yes, that's talos
# [18:24] <bz> evilpie: again, will run once the builds finish
# [18:24] <bz> evilpie: hard to measure until then!
# [18:24] <evilpie> sure
# [18:24] <evilpie> really forgot the name of that thing
# [18:24] <Mathnerd314> bz: ah. can you ping me once they're done?
# [18:24] <bz> Mathnerd314: if I notice today
# [18:25] <bz> Mathnerd314: you just keep an eye on those web pages
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# [18:25] <Mathnerd314> which web pages?
# [18:25] <bz> Mathnerd314: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=08e1a5a6afc0 and https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=4f81468ed6a5
# [18:25] <Mathnerd314> ok.
# [18:26] <Mathnerd314> hmm, linux is done already
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# [18:26] <Mathnerd314> why can't you do windows first? :p
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# [18:27] <bz> Mathnerd314: they started at the same time
# [18:27] <bz> Mathnerd314: windows just builds way slower
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# [18:27] <Mathnerd314> is that what the performance team is working on now?
# [18:27] <bz> build speed? Of course not
# [18:28] <Mathnerd314> is there *anybody* working on build speed?
# [18:28] <bz> minimal
# [18:28] <bz> it's not exactly a high priority
# [18:28] <bz> is it being a serious problem for you?
# [18:29] <Mathnerd314> yeah...
# [18:30] <Mathnerd314> if you get builds out faster you can have more testers
# [18:30] <bz> um
# [18:30] <bz> I don't follow
# [18:30] <bz> we get builds out every day
# [18:30] <bz> actually several times a day
# [18:30] <bz> how would getting them out every 2 hours instead of every 3 get us more testers?
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# [18:31] <Mathnerd314> oh, ok. maybe I need to use another channel besides nightly then.
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# [18:31] <bz> there is no channel for the more-often-than-nightly builds
# [18:32] <bz> but seriously, would you actually update more often than once a day?
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# [18:32] <Mathnerd314> no, I'd update whenever I restarted firefox
# [18:32] <bz> and that happens more than once a day?
# [18:32] <Mathnerd314> my current cycle is "use 4-day old nightly; if problems then reboot"
# [18:33] <bz> right
# [18:33] <bz> so how would faster builds change anything?
# [18:33] <Mathnerd314> they would mean I could comment more on bugs
# [18:33] <bz> why?
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# [18:33] <bz> what's stopping you now?
# [18:34] * bz is starting to suspect he's being trolled....
# [18:34] <Mathnerd314> I don't have much to say, because I'm waiting for the builds
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# [18:34] <ckvk> bz is getting himself trolled
# [18:34] <bz> uh
# [18:34] <bz> yeah
# [18:34] <bz> that's my conclusion
# [18:34] <Mathnerd314> ckvk: right, I'm meta-trolling :p
# [18:34] * bz drops the conversation
# [18:34] <ckvk> hehe
# [18:34] <bz> because this is clearly going nowhere
# [18:35] <ckvk> u were in a hurry to take it nowhere
# [18:35] <Mathnerd314> bz: but if I had a build now to test, I'd test it
# [18:35] <bz> you have a build
# [18:35] <bz> just grab any build
# [18:35] <bz> and test it
# [18:35] <ckvk> i am not getting dragged into this :P
# [18:35] <ckvk> but clearly Mathnerd314 has lost it
# [18:36] <Mathnerd314> ckvk: yes! exactly. but in an interesting fashion.
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# [18:37] <ckvk> but Mathnerd314's ideas make sense if every m-c build is an improved build
# [18:37] <ckvk> over the prev build, which could be the case if bug's were fixed by the second
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# [18:38] <ckvk> but iguess the fixes take finite time, so the hourly builds are not really great improvements
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# [18:38] <Mathnerd314> ckvk: but people work by the second
# [18:39] <Mathnerd314> that's why we can chat now :-)
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# [18:57] <cjones> $ git pull
# [18:57] <cjones> ...
# [18:57] <cjones> rename js/jetpack/JetpackProcessParent.h => widget/src/gonk/Framebuffer.h (58%)
# [18:57] <cjones> ah, gives one confidence in our git mirror ...
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# [19:01] <bz> cjones: thanks for the widget layers hint
# [19:01] <bz> cjones: I may have a fix; testing now
# [19:02] <cjones> \o/
# [19:02] <cjones> sorry if it was a bug in the reftest code
# [19:02] <bz> cjones: or at least I have a guess at what might possibly be wrong
# [19:02] <bz> cjones: if my fix is right, it's a bug in drawwindow
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# [19:02] <cjones> ok
# [19:02] <bz> cjones: nothing was making sure invalidates got passed to widgets on drawWindow
# [19:02] <bz> cjones: afaict
# [19:02] <bz> cjones: do we use the widget layers thing on non-ipc?
# [19:03] <cjones> yes
# [19:03] <cjones> the normal harness uses it too
# [19:03] <bz> ok
# [19:03] <bz> odd
# [19:03] <bz> anyway
# [19:03] <bz> I'm hoping this was the issue
# [19:03] <bz> because if not, I have to dig more
# [19:03] * bz is waiting on local build and try
# [19:04] <Mathnerd314> bz: see! if you compile faster you can try things faster
# [19:04] <bz> Mathnerd314: oh, no argument about that for people who actually compile!
# [19:05] <Mathnerd314> so while you are waiting, you might as well try to figure out what's making it slow
# [19:05] <bz> Mathnerd314: if I were on Windows!
# [19:05] <Mathnerd314> you aren't? :p
# [19:05] <bz> Mathnerd314: I know what makes our builds slow on _my_ machine: we have too much code!
# [19:06] <Mathnerd314> right... so throw it away!
# [19:06] <Mathnerd314> you can write better code than that in a week
# [19:06] * khuey|christmas thinks you have no idea how this stuff works
# [19:07] <Mathnerd314> well... yes. I don't. Internship suddenly? :p
# [19:08] <ckvk> merry christmas khuey|christmas
# [19:08] <khuey|christmas> ckvk: you too
# [19:08] <evilpie> bz: mozilla doesn't automatically owns the code you write off time?
# [19:08] <ckvk> and to bz too
# [19:08] <Mathnerd314> ckvk: it'll be easiest if I give you them in person... :p
# [19:08] <derf> khuey|christmas: The trick is to throw away code and not write anything to replace it.
# [19:09] <khuey|christmas> derf: if only we could do that
# [19:09] * khuey|christmas looks forward to the day we can rm -rf things like rdf/
# [19:10] <bz> evilpie: hmm
# [19:10] <bz> evilpie: not if it's unrelated to mozilla stuff, iirc
# [19:10] <bz> evilpie: why?
# [19:10] <derf> khuey|christmas: It does turn out to be a lot of work, unfortunately.
# [19:10] <khuey|christmas> indeed
# [19:10] <evilpie> bz: was chatting with a google guy
# [19:11] <bz> evilpie: and?
# [19:11] <evilpie> well all their code is automatically owned by google
# [19:12] <bz> evilpie: that's standard practice
# [19:12] <Mathnerd314> derf: right, the trick is synchronizing
# [19:12] <evilpie> i find that disturbing
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# [19:13] <ckvk> evilpie, well thats the standard practice
# [19:13] <Mathnerd314> derf: so that all the work ends up finishing at the same time
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# [19:13] <ckvk> in any compant
# [19:13] <romeo> SSE3 is about 8 years old. Why not require SSE3 right away?
# [19:13] <Mathnerd314> romeo: right, why not? :p
# [19:14] <bz> evilpie: I believe that Mozilla's employment agreement is more liberal than that, but I'd have to check the legalese to check
# [19:14] <bz> romeo: what matters is when everyone supported it, not when the first person did
# [19:14] <Mathnerd314> bz: is it on the web somewhere?
# [19:14] <evilpie> also from what i remember SSE3 isn't that useful
# [19:14] <romeo> hm
# [19:14] <khuey|christmas> Mozilla's employment agreement?
# [19:14] <khuey|christmas> no
# [19:15] <Mathnerd314> then how do people get employed? :p
# [19:15] * bz also notes that this is the sort of thing one can often negotiate on
# [19:15] <Mathnerd314> bz: excellent. can mozilla hire me to promote their ideals?
# [19:15] <Mathnerd314> everything else is negotiable
# [19:16] <bz> but Google's thing is standard practice for silicon valley
# [19:16] <bz> and yes, it kinda sucks
# [19:16] <evilpie> well i guess it's doesn't matter for googlers because they essentially work so much anyways
# [19:16] <Mathnerd314> bz: but mozilla is better. you have videoconferences!
# [19:16] <bz> evilpie: unlike mozilla folks?
# [19:17] <Mathnerd314> send me an employment contract: my.name.is.allan.gardner@gmail.com
# [19:17] <evilpie> i read this comic about the 80 20 rule recently, but i can't find it anymore
# [19:17] <ckvk> cud u summarise it for us evilpie
# [19:17] <bz> evilpie: dilbert, iirc
# [19:17] <khuey|christmas> heh
# [19:18] <ckvk> btw, i think mozilla way cooler than google.
# [19:18] * khuey|christmas grumbles about the difficulty of enumerating hashtables
# [19:18] <Mathnerd314> evilpie: http://www.entrepreneurs-journey.com/397/80-20-rule-pareto-principle/
# [19:18] <evilpie> http://www.dilbert.com/2011-12-19/
# [19:18] <bz> khuey|christmas: what with callback functions?
# [19:18] <bz> khuey|christmas: we should really consider the jshashtable api for it.... except that modifying then sucks
# [19:18] <khuey|christmas> bz: yeah having to setup callbacks is annoying
# [19:19] <Mathnerd314> ckvk: at least they're nearby :p
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# [19:19] <ckvk> nearby how?
# [19:19] <Mathnerd314> both in California...
# [19:19] <khuey|christmas> the google campus is a couple miles up the street from Mozilla's MV office
# [19:20] <ckvk> oooh
# [19:20] <Mathnerd314> google "campus"? sounds like a university
# [19:20] <bz> lots of things can have a campus
# [19:20] <bz> all you need is more than one building
# [19:20] <ckvk> LOL
# [19:21] <Mathnerd314> ckvk: you seem to do that a lot. are you insane? :p
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# [19:35] <bz> hmm
# [19:35] <bz> make TEST_FILE=layout/reftests/ib-split/reftest.list -C ../obj-firefox reftest
# [19:35] <bz> Should that not just run reftest in that one dir?
# [19:35] <bz> oh, TEST_PATH
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# [20:55] <evilpie> so ?
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# [21:10] <Mathnerd314> so what are all of you guys doing?
# [21:11] <dumitru> washing dishes
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# [21:22] <Mathnerd314> seriously? get a dishwasher
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# [21:26] <romeo> or a girlfriend
# [21:28] * Ms2ger whacks romeo
# [21:28] <dumitru> hah
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# [21:31] <evilpie> protip: (on christmas) grandparents
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# [21:49] <evilpie> bz i assume we automatically do SSE builds for x64 ?
# [21:50] <khuey|christmas> well, yes ...
# [21:50] <khuey|christmas> since x64 implies sse2
# [21:50] <khuey|christmas> (assuming the compiler is sane, etc)
# [21:55] <evilpie> if we would start requiring sse2 i could fix one bug very easy
# [21:56] <Mathnerd314> why don't you?
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# [22:04] <evilpie> you start reminding me of my sister
# [22:04] <bz> uh
# [22:04] <bz> WTF
# [22:04] <evilpie> :O
# [22:05] * bz seeks build person
# [22:05] <bz> khuey|christmas: ping
# [22:05] <bz> oh, wait
# [22:05] <bz> hrm
# [22:05] * bz looks at other log
# [22:07] <khuey|christmas> bz: pong
# [22:07] <bz> nevermind
# [22:07] <bz> things look ok
# [22:07] <khuey|christmas> ok
# [22:07] <bz> thoigh..
# [22:07] <bz> er, though....
# [22:07] <bz> why are all the other options starting with - ?
# [22:07] <bz> whereas this one starts with / ?
# [22:07] <bz> /arch:SSE2 -TP -nologo -W3 -Gy -Fdgenerated.pdb -wd4800 -we4553 -DNDEBUG -DTRIMMED -Zi -Zi -UDEBUG -DNDEBUG -GL -O1 -Oy -MD
# [22:08] * khuey|christmas shrugs
# [22:08] <khuey|christmas> you can do it either way
# [22:08] <khuey|christmas> afaik it doesn't matter
# [22:08] <bz> ok
# [22:08] <bz> fwiw, preliminary numbers suggest this is not much win
# [22:09] <bz> so I dunno where those palemoon numbers are coming from
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# [22:10] <biesi> bz, cygwin (or mingw?) at one point converted /x to x:
# [22:10] <biesi> bz, hence us using dashes instead
# [22:10] <bz> biesi: ah, right
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# [22:12] <bz> hmm
# [22:12] <bz> so what invalidates widget layers?
# [22:13] <khuey|christmas> bz: palemoon's dromaeo numbers show 1 or 2 % improvements
# [22:13] <bz> khuey|christmas: see their dromaeo DOM numbers
# [22:13] <khuey|christmas> ah
# [22:13] <khuey|christmas> yes
# [22:13] <khuey|christmas> more improvements there
# [22:13] <khuey|christmas> suppose that makes sense with jits and whatno
# [22:14] <bz> khuey|christmas: right
# [22:14] * bz is still waiting on our dromaeo-dom numbers
# [22:14] <bz> but our tdhtml number moveth not
# [22:15] <bz> also no change on Tp
# [22:15] <bz> so large changes elsewhere is possible, but dubious
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# [22:17] <khuey|christmas> they say they test on a single core machine
# [22:17] <khuey|christmas> hw differences are plausible
# [22:18] <khuey|christmas> a single core 2.4 ghz machine is probably pretty old
# [22:18] <bz> mmm
# [22:18] <bz> possible
# [22:18] <bz> sounds like an old P4 or something
# [22:19] <bz> it's entirely plausible that sse2 matters more there
# [22:19] * bz is pretty sure that p3 has no sse2
# [22:19] <bz> unless they're testing on an atom?
# [22:19] <bkero> p3's never came clocked at 2.4ghz either :P
# [22:19] <bz> well, that too
# [22:19] <bkero> i dare say atoms didn't either
# [22:20] <bz> ah, looks like atom only goes up to 2.13 so far
# [22:20] <bz> ok
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# [22:20] <bkero> Sounds like a Northwood P4. A great big pile of NetBurst crappiness.
# [22:21] <bz> p3 clocked up to 1.4Ghz, looks like
# [22:21] <bz> so yeah
# [22:21] <bkero> Still reasonably popular at some dry OSU dormatories for use with a copper still in brewing lcohols.
# [22:21] <bkero> *alcohols
# [22:21] <bz> ok
# [22:21] <bz> so I get about 3-4% wins
# [22:21] <bz> with sse2
# [22:22] <bkero> All P4's also had SSE3
# [22:22] <bz> on the relevant dromaeo tests
# [22:22] <bz> bkero: sure, but that's not relevant for our purposes
# [22:22] <bkero> ah
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# [22:22] <khuey|christmas> does sse3 have anything interesting?
# [22:23] <bkero> The most notable change is the capability to work horizontally in a register, as opposed to the more or less strictly vertical operation of all previous SSE instructions. More specifically, instructions to add and subtract the multiple values stored within a single register have been added. These instructions simplify the implementation of a number of DSP and 3D operations. There is also a new instruction to convert floating point values t
# [22:23] <bz> given the lack of compile option for it, unlikely
# [22:23] <khuey|christmas> heh, fair enough
# [22:23] <khuey|christmas> the next thing msvc has an option for is AVX
# [22:23] <bz> yeah
# [22:23] <khuey|christmas> which didn't ship until this year
# [22:23] <bz> pretty sure we can't require that. ;)
# [22:23] * khuey|christmas expects we'll be able to use them in another decade or so
# [22:24] <bkero> but what about my OMAP3? It doesn't have any SSE :(
# [22:25] <khuey|christmas> resolved dontcare
# [22:25] <bkero> resolved /cry
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# [22:29] <bz> bkero: it's also not x86, right?
# [22:30] * khuey|christmas has too many hashtables
# [22:30] <bz> khuey|christmas: no such thing
# [22:30] <bz> khuey|christmas: (from my pov as style system peer)
# [22:31] <khuey|christmas> heh
# [22:31] <khuey|christmas> glad you think so
# [22:31] * khuey|christmas is adding a few more to layout
# [22:31] <bz> oh, hmm
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# [22:31] <bz> did pentium-m or pentium-d clock up to 2.4GHz?
# [22:31] <bz> or Celeron, for that matter?
# [22:31] <khuey|christmas> not M
# [22:32] <khuey|christmas> M maxed out at 2.2 or something similar
# [22:32] <khuey|christmas> pentium-d did though
# [22:32] * romeo has a 2.40 GHz Celeron PC
# [22:32] <khuey|christmas> wikipedia says 2.6
# [22:32] * khuey|christmas goes back to stabbing nsImageLoader in the face
# [22:33] <bz> anyway
# [22:34] <bz> cjones: ping
# [22:36] <cjones> bz, pong
# [22:36] * cjones but not around much longer
# [22:37] * khuey|christmas doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3391558
# [22:37] <bz> cjones: so my attemped fix didn't work
# [22:37] <bz> cjones: the synchronize code you pointed to just does a drawwindow
# [22:37] <cjones> :(
# [22:37] <bz> cjones: so I'm not sure why it even matters
# [22:37] <cjones> not sure i follow
# [22:37] <bz> cjones: but in any case, I'm guessing that something somewhere is not invalidating widget layers..
# [22:37] <bz> cjones: or something
# [22:38] <cjones> that synchronize code is supposed to force a shadow layers transaction
# [22:38] <bz> cjones: if I try not doing widget layers at all for ipc, would that just break the world?
# [22:38] <bz> cjones: as a test
# [22:38] <bz> cjones: ah, ok
# [22:38] <cjones> remote the WIDGET_LAYERS bit there?
# [22:38] <cjones> *remove
# [22:38] <cjones> it would break a lot of tests, but not the world
# [22:38] <bz> cjones: I was going to just make drawWIndow ignore that bit
# [22:38] <bz> well
# [22:38] <bz> for my purposes, "the world" == "tests"
# [22:39] * bz is trying to reduce the set of variables he needs to consider
# [22:39] <cjones> in theory it would break all tests, but some test would already have their content synchronized when we hit that drawWindow
# [22:39] <cjones> *some tests
# [22:39] <cjones> so they would still pass
# [22:39] <bz> so if I could have reasonably tested without widget layers....
# [22:39] <bz> ok
# [22:39] <bz> so that's not worth testing
# [22:39] <bz> alright
# [22:39] <cjones> the drawWindow is supposed to force a PLayers update message
# [22:39] <bz> so the change I made is that when WIDGET_LAYERS we flush out the invalid area on the puppet widget
# [22:40] <bz> before paintin
# [22:40] <cjones> for the canvas stuff, either we're not forcing that message, maybe
# [22:40] <bz> and that didn't fix it
# [22:40] <cjones> or the wrong content is being sent across, but that seems pretty unlikely
# [22:40] <bz> so that might be the empty transaction thing or something
# [22:40] <cjones> yeah
# [22:40] <cjones> that'd be my guess
# [22:40] * bz has no idea what that does
# [22:40] * bz is tempted to disable the empty transaction code and see if that passes
# [22:40] <bz> alright, thanks
# [22:40] * bz pushes more stuff to try
# [22:41] <cjones> have you repro'd the failures in reftest-ipc locally?
# [22:41] <cjones> you could check to see if PLayers:Update is going across after the drawWindow in the failing tests
# [22:41] <cjones> that would let you narrow it down at least
# [22:41] <cjones> work backwards
# [22:43] <tn> bz, i would think it has something to do with empty transactions
# [22:43] <bz> tn: testing that hypothesis no
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# [22:43] <bz> er, now
# [22:43] <bz> if (frame && isRetainingManager && 0) {
# [22:44] <bz> cjones: "somewhat
# [22:44] <bz> cjones: I think I maybe see one of them
# [22:44] * bz is building locally with that change too
# [22:44] <bz> tn: and I did see your bug comment
# [22:44] <bz> tn: that's the only reason I'm thinking about empty transactions!
# [22:45] <tn> bz, bug comment? i think it was on irc
# [22:50] <bkero> khuey|christmas: yea, omap3 is arm :)
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# [22:57] <khuey|christmas> bz: ping?
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# [23:12] <evilpie> good-pie|xmas
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# [23:13] <good-pie|xmas> for christmas
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# [23:27] <bz> khuey|christmas: ack
# [23:27] <bz> disabling empty transactions locally doesn't help
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# [23:33] <khuey|christmas> bz: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/generic/nsFrame.cpp#634
# [23:33] <khuey|christmas> bz: is the comment that we sometimes paint frames from other frame's stylecontexts still accurate?
# [23:37] * bz looks
# [23:37] <bz> khuey|christmas: yes
# [23:37] <bz> khuey|christmas: think background propagation to the viewport
# [23:37] <bz> khuey|christmas: the viewport frame paints based on style data for the root or <body>
# [23:38] <khuey|christmas> hmm, ok
# [23:48] <tn> bz, how did you disable empty transactions?
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# [23:50] <good-pie|xmas> bz updated the patch
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# [23:52] <bz> tn: https://hg.mozilla.org/try/diff/1d338d5fa130/layout/base/nsPresShell.cpp
# [23:53] * mattwoodrow is now known as mattwoodrow|away
# [23:53] <bz> tn: or do I need to try harder?
# [23:53] <khuey|christmas> bz: can I rely on the style context we're painting from being some frame's style context?
# [23:54] <khuey|christmas> bz: even if it's not the frame in questions?
# [23:55] <bz> khuey|christmas: Hmm
# [23:55] <bz> khuey|christmas: I'm not sure
# [23:55] <bz> khuey|christmas: roc might know
# [23:55] <khuey|christmas> ok
# [23:55] <tn> bz, that should work, you could try removing the canvas check here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/generic/nsFrame.cpp#4298
# [23:55] * khuey|christmas supposes he could audit callsites too
# [23:55] <bz> tn: I have a try build going with my change
# [23:55] <bz> tn: we'll see how it goes
# [23:56] * bz pushes one with the canvas check removed too
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# [23:59] * mattwoodrow|away is now known as mattwoodrow
# [23:59] <khuey|christmas> looks like the answer is yes
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# Session Close: Mon Dec 26 00:00:01 2011

The end :)