/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-01-07 / end

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# Session Start: Sat Jan 07 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
# [00:00] <@bz> ok
# [00:00] <@bz> so Dump() in Paint()
# [00:00] <@bz> one sec..
# [00:00] <cjones> yeah, right next to your frontbuffer dump
# [00:00] <@bz> ok
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# [00:01] <@bz> ok
# [00:01] <@bz> one sec
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# [00:03] <biesi> hub, nsXPIDLString is for use when you have a char**/PRUnichar** out param
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# [00:03] <biesi> however, these days, you can just use nsString instead (unless you care about testing for null vs "")
# [00:03] <hub> biesi: ok. thanks
# [00:03] <@bz> ok
# [00:03] <@bz> building with that
# [00:04] <hub> biesi: but not nsAutoString ?
# [00:04] <biesi> hub, well it works, but it makes no sense :-)
# [00:04] <hub> ok
# [00:04] <biesi> (it does make sense for nsAString& params)
# [00:05] <Ms2ger> If you do have a char** out param, fix the API, please :)
# [00:05] <biesi> true, what Ms2ger said :)
# [00:05] <hub> it is a wstring in the IDL
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# [00:06] <@bz> wstring in idl is a tool of the devil
# [00:06] <@bz> imho
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# [00:06] <tbsaunde> Ms2ger: feel free to fix nsIStringBundle :p
# [00:06] <khuey> srsly
# [00:06] <tbsaunde> Ms2ger: or better yet write something better
# [00:07] <Ms2ger> No thanks, I might get a reputation of fixing shit
# [00:07] <Mook_as> the only time you should ever have [w]string in the idl is if you want arrays of it, I think
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# [00:08] <Ms2ger> Arrays in XPIDL are a world of hurt anyway, so I guess adding wstring on top is fine
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# [00:10] * Ms2ger opens complete.html, crosses fingers
# [00:10] <@bz> Ms2ger: you know about slow-browser?
# [00:10] <Ms2ger> Yes-ish
# [00:10] <Ms2ger> Does it break backrefs?
# [00:11] * @bz has no idea
# [00:11] <Ms2ger> Bah, backrefs doesn't help anyway
# [00:12] * philor is now known as philor|away
# [00:12] <hub> so what type for nsIStringBundle::GetStringFromName() ?
# [00:12] <hub> nsString?
# [00:12] <hub> (just using it, not fixing it)
# [00:13] <Ms2ger> DOMString
# [00:13] <Ms2ger> Oh, not fixing
# [00:13] <Mook_as> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/intl/strres/public/nsIStringBundle.idl#64 looks like PRUnichar* to me
# [00:13] <Ms2ger> PRUnichar**
# [00:14] <Ms2ger> But I guess that means the xpidlstring thing biesi was mentioning
# [00:14] <hub> wstring
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# [00:14] <Ms2ger> Yeah, wstring == PRUnichar*
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# [00:14] <Mook_as> oh, the retval; yeah, PRUnichar** - NS_SCRIPTABLE NS_IMETHOD GetStringFromName(const PRUnichar *aName, PRUnichar **_retval NS_OUTPARAM) = 0;
# [00:15] <biesi> so yeah, nsXPIDLString and pass it as getter_Copies(yourstring)
# [00:15] <hub> that was already done
# [00:16] <hub> it is jsut that tbsaunde was nitting on using a nsAutoString while I passed nsString
# [00:16] <hub> :-D
# [00:16] <hub> I just want to do the right thing™
# [00:16] <Ms2ger> Er
# [00:16] <Ms2ger> Then don't work on Gecko ;)
# [00:16] <jhammel> s/work on Gecko/write code/
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# [00:18] <hub> Ms2ger: I'm masochist. I write code in C++
# [00:18] <hub> and I like it
# [00:18] <hub> actually in Objective-C++
# [00:18] <jwir3> bah objective anything
# [00:18] <jwir3> ;)
# [00:18] <hub> preferably used by millions of people
# [00:18] <Ms2ger> Ugh, objective
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# [00:19] <biesi> hub, yeah he was wrong. :-)
# [00:19] <Ms2ger> [[[[[[Help I'm] trapped]]]]!
# [00:19] <jwir3> hahahaha
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# [00:19] <biesi> unless there was more context there
# [00:19] * jhammel prefers subjective-C++
# [00:19] <tbsaunde> so, from actually digging through xpcom/string/ I'll gues nsXpIdlString does the right thing ehre
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# [00:19] * jwir3 prefers subjugative-c++
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# [00:19] <hub> tbsaunde: which is what I changed it to.
# [00:19] <jwir3> COMPUTER WILL DO MY WILL AND MY WILL ALONE
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# [00:20] <tbsaunde> so, I'll give it > nsString, but I'm not nsString < nsAutoString there since its easier to rewrite out the getter copies and have something better if there was already a nsAutoString
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# [00:22] <biesi> tbsaunde, well the autostring is a waste of stack space
# [00:22] <biesi> (here)
# [00:22] <tbsaunde> biesi: sure, but that's really cheap unless you suspect your goingto have a deep stack on top of you
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# [00:22] <biesi> fair
# [00:23] <tbsaunde> and I can't think of any place really in accessible/ where I would expect that
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# [00:23] <Ms2ger> Well yeah, accessible.... ;)
# [00:23] <sworkman> Wondering what the accepted status for a bug is that doesn't belong to us (i.e. bug 714262 is a crash in libc code that's documented elsewhere) INVALID? WONTFIX?
# [00:23] <Ms2ger> inva
# [00:23] <tbsaunde> Ms2ger: yeah, a lot of it sucks, I know :\
# [00:24] <Ms2ger> tbsaunde, isn't as bad as editor, though!
# [00:24] <Ms2ger> (Daily editor jibe: check)
# [00:24] <tbsaunde> true
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# [00:25] <jduell> biesi: re: sworkman's comment above, seems like the answer is either INVALID or to move to evangelism (but the broken distros already know about the bugs)
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# [00:25] <Waldo> anyone have experience cajoling MXR into doing regexp searches? I'm trying to get it to search for '#\d+[#=]' (in Perl-speak), and I'm getting nowhere
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# [00:26] <jduell> Waldo: perhaps perl and File::Find is in your future? Or just grep -r ?
# [00:26] <Waldo> jduell: I'm trying to search mxr.mozilla.org/addons
# [00:26] <edmorley> Ms2ger++
# [00:26] <biesi> jduell, sworkman: well it depends on how common the problem is
# [00:26] * Waldo would love to just ack a tree, but the tree isn't available anywhere that he knows of
# [00:26] <Ms2ger> edmorley, :)
# [00:26] <biesi> jduell, sworkman: if common enough we may need a workaround
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# [00:27] <biesi> jduell, sworkman: but yes, otherwise invalid
# [00:27] <Callek> ok, whats moco legal e-mail
# [00:27] <jduell> biesi: sworkman: like write our own DNS resolver? :)
# [00:27] <Callek> legal@m.c is wrong
# [00:27] <biesi> jduell, I didn't read enough through the bug
# [00:27] <biesi> jduell, but it has been suggested that we use & ship libresolv :)
# [00:28] <sworkman> biesi: it's pretty deep in libc, getaddrinfo - I'm not sure a workaround would be possible - also, it seems to be related to not-so-well-behaved DNS servers
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# [00:28] <sworkman> biesi: re libresolv - looking into other DNS resolver options this quarter :)
# [00:28] <biesi> ah :)
# [00:28] <jduell> biesi: sworkman: let's mark INVALID with comment about how we might have to do workaround if it's really common
# [00:28] <sworkman> jduell: biesi: sounds good to me
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# [00:29] <sworkman> jduell: biesi: thx!
# [00:29] <biesi> np
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# [00:37] <khuey> does anyone else get some odd unicode codepoints in http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/ident?i=RunTimeout
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# [00:39] <Callek> khuey: 0D02 ?
# [00:39] <hub> is it still checkin-needed keyword or is it in the whiteboad ?
# [00:39] <Callek> hub: still a keyword
# [00:39] <hub> ok
# [00:39] <Callek> whiteboard is useful if its to be checked into a different tree than m-c/m-i
# [00:39] <Callek> or if there is more patches on the bug, etc.
# [00:39] <Callek> (coupling with checkin-needed)
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# [00:44] <khuey> Callek: I see a 0x01 and 0x02
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# [00:44] <Callek> khuey: for me only at |er of class run -|
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# [00:44] <Callek> not the unicode char between run and -
# [00:45] <bakers> I'm the author of an image scraping script that broke with either FF8 or FF9. It uses a simple bookmarklet to find all the images on a page and allow you to click to host them.
# [00:45] <bakers> Here is the bookmarklet: http://scootys.com/easy_capture/images.js.php
# [00:46] <bakers> I'm thinking there is a conflict between document.write and onclick?
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# [00:56] <taras> jlebar: 716103 is a cool bugreport
# [00:56] <khuey> jlebar: so, how insane would it be to move image decoding off the main thread?
# [00:57] <khuey> having a single decode worker seems like it should make that easier
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# [00:57] <dholbert> bakers, if you don't get any ideas about possible culprits here, you could narrow it to a one-day regression range using the "mozregression" script if you like, to get the list of changesets on the day that it broke
# [00:57] <dholbert> bakers, http://harthur.github.com/mozregression/ is where that script lives
# [00:58] <bakers> dholbert: Before I go down that road I guess I need to know if the code I wrote is good/valid
# [00:58] <bakers> It's super old/ugly
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# [00:58] <jhammel> dholbert, bakers : though the link is wrong, mozregression has been moved to the mozilla repository https://github.com/mozilla/mozregression
# [00:59] <jhammel> and in fact the link should be http://mozilla.github.com/mozregression/
# [00:59] <dholbert> jhammel, ah cool, thanks for the correction
# [00:59] <taras> khuey: we dont do that already?
# [00:59] <taras> :(
# [01:00] <dholbert> (I knew harth was no longer the maintainer, but didn't have the updated URL)
# [01:00] <khuey> taras: no, all image decoding is main thread only
# [01:00] <khuey> we yield, and whatnot, so it's not completely awful
# [01:00] <taras> sounds like a pretty good potential win
# [01:00] <taras> you have my vote
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# [01:01] <khuey> well, right now it would be pretty complicated
# [01:01] <khuey> after jlebar's changes I think it might be relatively easy to move all the decoding to a dedicated thread
# [01:01] <khuey> hence the question
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# [01:02] <taras> khuey: btw, what were you pinging me about late yesterday?
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# [01:02] <khuey> taras: I wanted to ask if we were planning to do crazy dynamic linker stuff on other platforms too
# [01:02] <khuey> glandium said maybe
# [01:03] <taras> yeah, we can do it on linux pretty easily
# [01:03] <taras> it basically works there
# [01:03] <taras> maybe mac
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# [01:03] <taras> i'm sure someone crazy could do it on windows
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# [01:04] * khuey might be interested in doing it on windows
# [01:04] <taras> though on mac you dont need it
# [01:04] <taras> my fs compression bug is enough
# [01:04] <khuey> would be a while before I'd have time though
# [01:04] <taras> khuey: it also needs library ordering
# [01:04] <taras> though froydnj has that more or less figured out
# [01:04] <taras> who knows
# [01:04] <taras> maybe if you order the library
# [01:05] <taras> and then upx the binary, it might just work
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# [01:05] <taras> upx claims to decompress on demand
# [01:05] <taras> but on unordered binaries it sucks
# [01:05] <taras> oooh
# [01:05] <taras> ha
# [01:05] <taras> we could also hack it into our dlopen hack
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# [01:06] <taras> keep a compressed xul.dll around
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# [01:06] <taras> detect cold startup and then decompress xul.dll instead of reading uncompressed one ondemand
# [01:06] <taras> that might actually be kinda easy
# [01:07] <taras> will have to try this once prefetch is no longer ruining our startup
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# [01:07] <bbondy> taras I'll be doing that within a couple weeks I think.
# [01:07] <bbondy> re prefetch
# [01:08] <bbondy> since the servie is landed now
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# [01:08] <bbondy> and I'd like to get off of update for a few tasks :)
# [01:08] <taras> bbondy: cant wait
# [01:08] <bbondy> what type of speed increase will it be on startup without prefetch?
# [01:08] <taras> shouldn't take long either, perhaps you can prioritize it over other tasks
# [01:08] <bbondy> I assume you already measured that
# [01:08] <taras> so we can gather data
# [01:09] <taras> bbondy: it depends a lot
# [01:09] <taras> 50% in some cases
# [01:09] <taras> perhaps even in common case
# [01:09] <bbondy> there are some critical things I have to do first during this weekend and during next week, but that's the next non update task on my list
# [01:09] <bbondy> wow
# [01:09] <bbondy> k
# [01:10] <taras> bbondy: then we could try the upx trick on top of it :)
# [01:10] <taras> for further io reduction
# [01:10] <bbondy> cool
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# [01:10] <taras> unfortunately windows can only relibably detect cold startup 50% of the time
# [01:11] <taras> so it would only help for those 50% of the lucky ones
# [01:11] * zpao|detached is now known as zpao
# [01:11] <mccr8> it is right 50% of the time on a yes/no question? that doesn't sound very impressive. ;)
# [01:11] <jlebar> taras, thanks!
# [01:11] <bbondy> haha
# [01:11] <dholbert> bz, ping?
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# [01:12] <bbondy> i'll take a win an additional 50% of the tiem
# [01:12] <bbondy> *time
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# [01:12] <taras> yeah
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# [01:14] <dholbert> bz, (if you have a few spare min, I'd be interested in running a frame-tree-surgery scenario by you...)
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# [01:23] <edmorley> zpao: hi :-)
# [01:23] <zpao> edmorley: hey
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# [01:24] <edmorley> I'm going through a few of the random orange bugs that seem to have been the most prevalent the last few days
# [01:24] <edmorley> what's the status of bug 707321?
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# [01:33] <philor> "it's going to get cowboyed by philor if something doesn't happen soon"
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# [01:34] <philor> that would be comment 319 of 372, though it was only Tuesday
# [01:34] <edmorley> spotted that, was just trying another approach :-)
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# [01:36] <philor> dietrich: want to reconsider https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=707321#c46 ? if not, I'll just disable the test without asking
# [01:36] <jlebar> khuey|away, to belately answer your question: I'm not sure how hard it would be to move decoding onto a separate thread. Probably not too hard, but I don't know how the buffers are managed atm.
# [01:37] <sfink> when Mozilla does the Firefly remake, who is philor going to play?
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# [01:37] <khuey> jlebar: hrm, ok
# [01:38] <khuey> jlebar: after your stuff lands I'll look into it
# [01:38] <jlebar> khuey, cool.
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# [01:38] <dietrich> philor: r=me on disabling. bah.
# [01:39] <khuey> jlebar: making sure that the main thread isn't messing with a buffer we're decoding into would probably be the hard part
# [01:39] <dietrich> philor: er, i meant r=me on the patch. i'll inform zpao.
# [01:40] <sfink> what's the best way to ignore this "Found a page without a GUID!" assertion, I wonder? Could it be my profile?
# [01:40] <khuey> it got fixed today
# [01:40] <jlebar> khuey, Yeah, and handling cancels, document closures, etc...
# [01:40] <khuey> so "pull"
# [01:40] <sfink> ugh. pulled already. "build".
# [01:40] <khuey> jlebar: yeah
# [01:41] <khuey> I don't think it would be *that* hard though
# [01:41] <zpao> edmorley: oh sorry, i forgot that i was supposed to be engaged in conversation! but looks like it all got worked out :)
# [01:41] <khuey> and it's potentially a serious [Snappy] win
# [01:41] <khuey> as your scrolling stuff shows ;-)
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# [01:43] <@bz> cjones: ok, back
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# [01:43] <@bz> cjones: working on getting a log
# [01:44] <zpao> edmorley: thanks for bringing it up. i meant to poke dietrich about disabling again because i haven't gotten around to looking at the root cause more
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# [01:45] <edmorley> :-)
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# [01:57] <qheaden> Does an addon provider need to have an associated icon to be displayed in the addons manager/
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# [02:21] <NeilAway> jorendorff: you exported frex_dbg instead of _frex_dbg
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# [02:24] <Unfocused> qheaden: no, it will just show without an icon
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# [02:30] <jgilbert> what should I use for a high-precision timer?
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# [02:31] <jgilbert> er, rather, getting of time with good precision
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# [02:41] <gps> jgilbert: I can't speak for a Mozilla-specific way of doing it, but the RDTSC x86 instruction is the fastest way to do it :)
# [02:41] <jgilbert> hah, yeah
# [02:41] <jgilbert> looks like #include "mozilla/TimeStamp.h" should do it
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# [02:43] <jgilbert> or maybe that's too old
# [02:43] <dholbert> jgilbert, no, I think that's what you want to use
# [02:44] <dholbert> jgilbert, in particular, TimeStamp::Now()
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# [02:45] <dholbert> jgilbert, that's what e.g. nsRefreshDriver uses (http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/base/nsRefreshDriver.cpp#291 )
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# [02:45] <jgilbert> dholbert: alright, great
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# [02:45] <njn> edmorley: ping
# [02:46] <edmorley> njn: pong
# [02:46] <njn> edmorley: I'm going to turn off the "NS_MEMORY_REPORTER_CHECK_SIZES: computedSize is too small" assertion
# [02:46] <njn> edmorley: I was going to do it in bug 715453 anyway
# [02:47] <njn> edmorley: but I can disable the assertion right now
# [02:47] <njn> edmorley: rs=edmorley ? :)
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# [02:48] <edmorley> I'm not a peer, but I know that would make philor (and the other sheriffs) happy :-)
# [02:48] <njn> edmorley: I know you're not a peer, but you're the most relevant... I'll just land it anyway
# [02:48] <edmorley> sure, rs=me
# [02:48] <njn> edmorley: I would ask jlebar but he's not around apparently
# [02:49] <njn> edmorley: has this been a problem for a while? I had no idea
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# [02:52] <edmorley> I'm not sure how many of the "tbpl can't load the log since it's too big" instances are due to this, but the url finding dance that the current tbpl ux forces you to do, is fun (and especially for philor, with his low monthly allowance DSL)
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# [02:52] * edmorley must check to see if a tbpl bug has been filed to provide the .gz log url directly
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# [02:54] <njn> edmorley: good idea
# [02:54] <njn> edmorley: I saw the "unable to load" case on the try server, but I just assumed it wasn't my fault
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# [02:57] <philor> hahaha DSL
# [02:58] <philor> ITYM "low monthly allowance tethered phone and MiFi"
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# [02:59] <philor> but they aren't that much of a problem for bandwidth, they're only 1.6 or 1.7MB compressed, they're more of a problem to deal with uncompressed since 70 or 80MB text files are... difficult
# [02:59] <philor> which is what tbpl says, too, when it tries to keep two copies of the log in memory at once, and blows up instead
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# [03:11] <qheaden> Unfocused: ping
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# [03:14] <darktrojan> if it's an AOM question I may be able to help, qheaden
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# [03:15] <qheaden> darktrojan: Thanks for offering help. I just answered my own question. :P I had a question about the addon methods and properties, but I found the page for it. Thanks.
# [03:16] <darktrojan> heh
# [03:17] <qheaden> But what is considered an "Addon"? For example, is the plugins provider an addon, or is each plugin it shows an addon?
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# [03:17] <darktrojan> anything that doesn't come out of the box, I guess
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# [03:21] <gavin> bent: do other browsers not prompt for appcache?
# [03:22] <bent> chrome doesn't... not sure about opera
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# [03:23] <gavin> bent: do they impose some kind of restrictions instead? do we?
# [03:23] <gavin> it'd be really nice to get rid of that prompting code, it's kind of gross
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# [03:23] <bent> basically they treat it as a regular cache
# [03:24] <bent> like nothing special
# [03:24] <bent> and when it fills they kick something out
# [03:24] <bent> so it's not a good fit for like a B2G installed application like that
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# [03:24] <bent> since it's not really permanent
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# [03:25] <bent> but for regular webapps that want to survive offline normally it works
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# [03:25] <bent> i think the plan is to not do anything until we're full, then offer to convert some to permanent storage or something
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# [03:26] <bent> this feature has too many hooks into other parts of the code though. it's going to be more tricky than i'd hoped
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# [03:44] <froydnj> do we have proper bit vectors anywhere? I looked in xpcom/, but didn't see anything
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# [03:46] <khuey> not that I'm aware of
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# [03:49] <qheaden> Hmm. I have my provider registered with the AddonManager, but for some reason, it isn't showing up in the list of addons.
# [03:49] <qheaden> I've checked the error console, and I don't see any errors pertaining to my code.
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# [04:14] <qheaden> Is this enough code to get the search addon showing in the addons manager? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1437674
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# [04:14] <qheaden> I'm just trying to get the "Search" category showing.
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# [04:29] <qheaden> What exactly is the XPI Provider for?
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# [04:38] <Mook> *.xpi (traditional extensions), as opposed to lightweightthemes etc
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# [04:38] <qheaden> Oh ok.
# [04:39] <qheaden> I can't seem to add a new category to the addon manager.
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# [04:39] <Mook> consider looking into how scriptish / greasemonkey / stylish do things?
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# [04:39] <qheaden> I have looked into it.
# [04:40] <qheaden> Something I am missing. I'll find it soon.
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# [04:42] <darktrojan> is it because you don't return anything?
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# [04:43] <qheaden> I was returning things earlier and it still didn't work. But does it have to be populated in order to be listed?
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# [04:43] <qheaden> For example, even though I have no extensions installed, the extensions category still shows.
# [04:43] <darktrojan> in some cases the category won't show up if there's nothing, trying to remember how it knows
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# [04:44] <qheaden> I think it has to do with the AddonManager.AddonType
# [04:44] <darktrojan> yeah, you set a flag or something
# [04:44] <qheaden> I think you can specify it to hide when empty. I didn't specify that.
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# [04:44] <darktrojan> when does your code run?
# [04:46] <qheaden> Well, I stuck it at the very end of nsSearchService.js.
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# [04:46] <qheaden> Maybe I need to bring it up a bit.
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# [04:46] <qheaden> I'm trying to study the nsSearchService.js file now. It is a ton of code.
# [04:47] * qheaden kinda hates javascript. :P
# [04:47] <WeirdAl> oh, come on... it (almost) never crashes. :)
# [04:48] <WeirdAl> (unfortunately, it's that "almost" that's got me hogtied right now)
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# [04:51] <darktrojan> your code appears to work qheaden, but it doesn't show up
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# [04:52] <qheaden> That's strange. There must be some sort of other code I am missing.
# [04:52] <darktrojan> I think it might be the name string is missing
# [04:52] <darktrojan> checking
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# [04:53] <qheaden> I added type.search.name=Search to extensions.properties file
# [04:53] <darktrojan> did you build toolkit/locales?
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# [04:54] <qheaden> Yeah
# [04:54] <darktrojan> (btw, I don't know if your code runs, but it works)
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# [04:54] <qheaden> I'll try building again
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# [04:55] <qheaden> Yeah, still nothing. :P
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# [04:55] <qheaden> Does ChromeBug work for the current mozilla central code? Is it still used for JS debugging?
# [04:56] <darktrojan> dunno, I never used it
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# [04:58] <qheaden> Well, the provider's functions are being called. I just put a dump statement in there, and it dumped to the console.
# [05:00] <darktrojan> hmm, making the name work didn't make it show either
# [05:01] <qheaden> I'm going to start from scratch.
# [05:01] * qheaden calls hg qpop
# [05:01] <qheaden> There is something else going on. I'll have to investigate one of the other addons, like Plugins.
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# [05:08] <darktrojan> qheaden, got it
# [05:08] <darktrojan> you can't call your provider "search"
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# [05:09] <qheaden> Hmm ok. Why not? It conflicts with something else?
# [05:09] <darktrojan> yeah, the category list already has search
# [05:09] <qheaden> Ahh ok. Thanks a million!
# [05:10] <darktrojan> in fact, if you call it searchengine, you'll get a bonus
# [05:10] <qheaden> Oh, is it because of the search bar in the addon manager?
# [05:10] <darktrojan> yes
# [05:10] <qheaden> Now I understand. Thanks.
# [05:10] <qheaden> Yeah, I'll just call it searchengine
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# [05:10] <darktrojan> looks like some of the ui remains from when it was built
# [05:11] <darktrojan> well, the icon anyway
# [05:11] <qheaden> Cool
# [05:11] <qheaden> I was wondering where I would get the icon from. It just dropped from the sky. :)
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# [05:12] * qheaden needs to get better with his JS debugging skills.
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# [05:12] <darktrojan> I think the guys got pretty close to adding what you're doing before it was dropped
# [05:13] <qheaden> Yeah they did. The last guy had a patch, but it was kind of old.
# [05:14] <darktrojan> FWIW, I've just been using scratchpad to mess with your code
# [05:15] <qheaden> scratchpad?
# [05:15] <darktrojan> it's part of the new dev tools
# [05:16] <darktrojan> shift+f4
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# [05:17] <qheaden> How new is this? It is awesome!
# [05:17] <darktrojan> a few versions, I think
# [05:17] <darktrojan> never really used it before
# [05:17] <qheaden> Wow. i wish I knew about this before.
# [05:17] <qheaden> That's pretty cool.
# [05:19] <darktrojan> and that's why we make a browser using javascript
# [05:19] <qheaden> Makes sense. :)
# [05:19] <qheaden> JS can be a pain if you do not use the right tools, which has been my problem.
# [05:20] <darktrojan> it can be a pain if you do
# [05:20] <qheaden> :)
# [05:21] <darktrojan> are you planning on removing the old search engine UI and using this instead?
# [05:21] <darktrojan> or leaving it there
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# [05:22] <qheaden> I think they want to replace the old UI. I'm not sure.
# [05:22] <qheaden> I'l have to contact Unfocused, as he is the module owner.
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# [05:23] <darktrojan> if you can make it do everything the old ui can do, it'd be worth having only one ui
# [05:25] <qheaden> Yeah, that's why I'm thinking.
# [05:25] <qheaden> Well, the bug is asking to "move" the search engine manager into the addons manager, so that means to get rid of the old one.
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# [05:26] <qheaden> darktrojan: You were able to import the AddonManager object into scratchpad right?
# [05:27] <darktrojan> if you have the manager as the current tab it will already be there
# [05:27] <qheaden> ok
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# [05:28] <darktrojan> implementing sorting could be interesting
# [05:28] <darktrojan> sorting/ordering
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# [05:37] <qheaden> Well, I'm heading to bed. Thanks for the help darktrojan.
# [05:37] <darktrojan> no problem
# [05:38] <qheaden> I'll be in the IRC tomorrow. Bye until then. :)
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# [06:20] <ewong> nthomas|away: I realize you're away.. just a quick question. re: bug #705974, how do I determine if icons/document.png if I don't have a Mac?
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# [06:27] <ewong> nthomas|away: err never mind.. realized I was looking at the patch wrongly..
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# [07:25] <jdm> holy crap, why are there 600 unread bugmail threads in my inbox
# [07:25] <jdm> mobile >:(
# [07:26] <mfinkle> s/mobile/blassey
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# [09:34] <Ms2ger> Hmm, just got a Ubuntu update to remove xpidl
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# [10:45] <shng> hi
# [10:45] <shng> Is it possible to skin the context menu ?
# [10:46] <jdm> I would expect so
# [10:46] <jdm> you could probably find the id of the context menu element and use css to set its background
# [10:47] <shng> hmnmm
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# [10:54] <gaston> hm i can't link libxul anymore on openbsd, even with ulimit -d set to 2G...
# [10:55] <Ms2ger> gaston, do you guys support variadic macros, btw?
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# [10:55] <gaston> as in ?
# [10:56] <gaston> whatever is supported by gcc 4.2.1....
# [10:57] <Ms2ger> I just assume BSD uses weird tools throughout ;)
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# [10:58] <gaston> yeah, posix is weird sometimes :)
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# [11:28] <shng> jdm: not able to locate the css for it
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# [13:13] <Ms2ger> !seen ehsan
# [13:13] <firebot> ehsan was last seen 14 hours, 25 minutes and 38 seconds ago, saying 'rs: ok, will do' in #developers.
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# [14:35] <shng2> !seen John-Galt
# [14:35] <firebot> john-galt was last seen 1 hour, 48 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying 'gry: https://mail.mozilla.org/private/amo-editors-internal/2011-November/thread.html#1584' in #amo-editors.
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# [14:57] <Ms2ger> edmorley, hrm, that doesn't look good
# [14:58] <Ms2ger> edmorley, if anything, I'd expected an improvement from bug 622301...
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# [15:03] <edmorley> Ms2ger: the dev.tree-management reports could by lying of course :-)
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# [15:11] <edmorley> Ms2ger: I'm presuming Bug 715417 couldn't be responsible?
# [15:11] <edmorley> I've confirmed the range (using two different talos results) to be http://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/pushloghtml?fromchange=9a1a4157bf49&tochange=a761ff40306b
# [15:11] <Ms2ger> That would be even weirder
# [15:12] <Ms2ger> Bug 622301 should go out then, I guess
# [15:15] <edmorley> ffs stupid google groups double posting
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# [15:30] <Ms2ger> jmaher|afk, did you blow up android?
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# [15:52] * WG9s wonders if that is anything like the Safety Dance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPau5QYtYs
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# [15:59] <Ms2ger> "a time of renewed interest in encouraging people to programme."
# [16:00] * edmorley gives up trying to decipher the android test logs, backs out jmaher's entire push
# [16:00] <Ms2ger> sgtm
# [16:00] <edmorley> oh and there's windows retest failures now too
# [16:01] <edmorley> are even
# [16:10] <WG9s> edmorley: and now they have no summary. This reminds of that old "Please God make my hand like the other one" joke!
# [16:14] <WG9s> edmorley: perhaps add comments in the bugs saying please test on try including android and windows builds and tests would be advised?
# [16:15] <Ms2ger> I'll shout at jmaher|afk :)
# [16:16] <edmorley> I think the least antagonistic way of improving things might be a semi-jokey wiki page along the lines of "TBPL Sombrero of Shame Leaderboard"
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# [16:16] <edmorley> which just keeps track of the last month's worth of bustage for m-c and inbound, with triple points for m-c
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# [16:21] <WG9s> edmorley:should also be extra points for not being around to do your own backouts.
# [16:21] <Ms2ger> Hmm, it should have a picture of an angry philor|away on top
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# [16:22] <WG9s> oh no another pthotoshop tying like the tree closed image?
# [16:23] <edmorley> I'm going to start keeping notes in an etherpad from now on, and once/if we have some wiki page set up (with appropriate angry philor graphics) we can transpose
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# [16:23] <edmorley> "Bringers of Bustage Leaderboard"
# [16:24] <edmorley> what rhymes with bustage that sounds better?
# [16:24] <WG9s> hmm bustage actually sounds like some kind of boobs reference
# [16:25] <Ms2ger> Foliage?
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# [16:28] <edmorley> Captains of Chaos
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# [17:10] <edmorley> NeilAway: you're currently in the lead https://etherpad.mozilla.org/sombrero-of-shame-leaderboard ;-)
# [17:10] <edmorley> (especially if we give double points to m-c)
# [17:11] <WG9s> edmorley: except points is kind of the wrong term. More like demerits.
# [17:12] <edmorley> I was trying to keep it as well-meaning as possible :-)
# [17:12] <Ms2ger> Do we get exponentially increasing points for bouncing the same patch multiple times?
# [17:12] <edmorley> like M-M-Monsterkill awards?
# [17:13] <WG9s> especially if no try build intervening.
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# [17:16] <WG9s> edmorley: Yes I know just my bizarre sense of humour eventually takes over everything I say.
# [17:17] <Ms2ger> edmorley, I like the sombrero :)
# [17:18] <WG9s> but still not the same as the obama/sdwilsh/fro pic we used to use for tree closures.
# [17:19] <WG9s> somehos needs more impact
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# [17:21] <edmorley> Ms2ger: :-)
# [17:21] <Ms2ger> A moving hat?!
# [17:22] <edmorley> ha
# [17:22] <Ms2ger> Gah
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# [17:23] <WG9s> Ah so like you keep the hat until someone screws up even worse than you did?
# [17:23] <Ms2ger> I'm going to end up with patch AB here
# [17:23] <Ms2ger> I'm turning into mounir :(
# [17:23] <WG9s> or you do something major to atone for your transgression?
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# [17:24] <Ms2ger> You could star Android on m-i for a day
# [17:25] <WG9s> Ms2ger: with a restrictiont hat you can;t just retrigger to try to make it go green.
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# [17:26] <Ms2ger> Well, you can
# [17:26] <Ms2ger> But you still get to star the previous ones, as well as the ones you triggered :)
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# [17:26] <WG9s> But actually have to look at the full log to try to ascertain the real issue and file a real bug if it seems to not be reported already.
# [17:26] <Ms2ger> gerv, btw, are you planning to add license headers to test files?
# [17:27] <gerv> Ms2ger: Well, that was the original plan, but some people are suggesting it's not an awesome idea.
# [17:27] <gerv> So it may not happen, or may not happen immediately.
# [17:27] <Ms2ger> Mm
# [17:28] <Ms2ger> I'd like to start submitting MoCo-written tests to the W3C at some point, and I'm afraid they don't take MPL :)
# [17:29] <edmorley> ms2
# [17:29] <Ms2ger> edm?
# [17:30] <edmorley> Edward, meet the tab key... I believe you should know each other...
# [17:30] <WG9s> The main problem with the mobile builds is that most of the real bugs users see have to do with quickly rotating the device to make it change form portrait to landscape or vice-versa and our test suite does not find these, so they are more interested in the bugs our test suite does not catch. because that is what users are seeing.
# [17:30] <Ms2ger> Wait, Edward? :)
# [17:30] <edmorley> Ms2ger: I was just going to say someone's been a busy bee in bug 677079
# [17:31] <edmorley> Ms2ger: only when being told off ;-)
# [17:31] <Ms2ger> Want some reviews? :)
# [17:32] <Ms2ger> gerv, btw, do I need anything more than https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677495#c11 to start submitting tests? :)
# [17:32] <gerv> Ms2ger: Re W3C, it's perfectly fine to make tests CC0.
# [17:33] <gerv> See http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/license-policy.html
# [17:33] <Ms2ger> I'm all for that :)
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# [17:34] <gerv> Ms2ger: roc says we need a policy. That's not at all the same as permission to start submitting tests.
# [17:34] <gerv> (Or the same as saying we can take tests which are currently MPLed, and CC0 them - which we most certainly can't.)
# [17:34] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [17:35] <Ms2ger> Though I'd assume you can take any tests that were written by MoCo employees
# [17:36] <gerv> Ms2ger: If no non-MoCo people have changed them, and if you have an official statement from MoCo saying that's OK, then it's OK.
# [17:36] <gerv> roc is probably in a position to make such a statement, but https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677495#c11 is definitely not it.
# [17:37] <Ms2ger> Alright
# [17:37] <Ms2ger> I'll harass roc, then :)
# [17:39] <qheaden> Is the Android test suite run on the Android emulator?
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# [17:39] <Ms2ger> No, on tegras
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# [17:41] <WG9s> Ms2ger: I don't think any patches written by MoCo employees code or tests should not be treated much differently than those contributed by non employees. Just my opinion, though. I could be wrong.
# [17:41] <qheaden> Oh ok, cool.
# [17:41] <WG9s> If they are then the entire idea of non-employee contributors will eventually fall apart.
# [17:41] <Ms2ger> WG9s, well, if MoCo owns the copyright, I don't have to hunt down every single test author
# [17:42] <WG9s> because they will all become completely pissed off.
# [17:42] <Ms2ger> WG9s, this is just about me reusing the tests people have already written
# [17:42] <edmorley> WG9s: we're not talking about reviews or what to accept here, we're talking about who owns the copyright, which is MoCo, if people are employees (AIUI)
# [17:43] <Ms2ger> WG9s, any volunteer who wants their tests to be reused can just submit a form to let me do that
# [17:43] <qheaden> There is no way to simulate rotating the screen on Android?
# [17:44] <WG9s> Ms2ger: Oh I see a can I reuse the test code question rather than a difference in reviewing. Never mind. I did not understand the context of what you were saying.
# [17:44] <Ms2ger> WG9s, that's fine, I don't understand it myself half of the time :)
# [17:45] <WG9s> qheaden: well there might be what there is not is a way to anticipate the unexpected time in which the rotate migh occur.
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# [17:48] <WG9s> There are a mess of bugs about either checkerboarding or crashes that real users are seeing that all seem more improtant to fix than the intermittent test failures is all I was trying to say. Not at all sure that that is the correct approach. Just trying to explain the current state of things.
# [17:48] <qheaden> Yeah, that's true. Using some kind of random rotation wouldn't work either. Thats a hard kind of bug to catch.
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# [17:48] <NeilAway> edmorley: well one of those was my own fault for pushing the wrong patch by mistake
# [17:49] <Ms2ger> The other one too, obviously ;)
# [17:50] <edmorley> :-)
# [17:51] * NeilAway thought the other one was ehsan's fault for suggesting switching from NS_ARRAY_LENGTH to mozilla::ArrayLength without pointing out that it would cause Mac bustage (original patch had passed Try)
# [17:51] <Ms2ger> Heh
# [17:52] * NeilAway also wonders whether edmorley is counting the same patch twice because it needed two bustage fixes (first fix revealed the second fix)
# [17:53] <edmorley> yeah, that's what the 2x was for
# [17:53] <edmorley> :-)
# [17:53] <KWierso> ITT: NeilAway tries to escape from the sombrero...
# [17:53] <edmorley> All we need now are some official sombrero mozilla swag kits
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# [17:55] <WG9s> I still think even if people screw up if they are at least watching the tree to do their own back-outs this should not be the same if others need to figure out the bustage and what to do.
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# [17:56] <WG9s> THis was always the rule. if you checked something in, you were supposed to be around to see the results and fix any bustage caused by it.
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# [18:10] <edmorley> Ms2ger: running out of letters! :P
# [18:10] <Ms2ger> <Ms2ger> I'm going to end up with patch AB here
# [18:10] <Ms2ger> <Ms2ger> I'm turning into mounir :(
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# [18:11] <edmorley> heh :-)
# [18:13] <Ms2ger> Good, I'm done :)
# [18:17] <Archaeopteryx> AB testing...
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# [18:18] <Jesse> what's the relationship between the lists of event names in http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/events/public/nsEventNameList.h and http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/events/src/nsDOMEvent.cpp#69 ?
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# [18:22] * edmorley thinks the talos landings this morning have broken something
# [18:24] <Ms2ger> Jesse, smaug would know
# [18:25] * Ms2ger changes topic to 'm-c: OPEN m-i: OPEN || Next aurora uplift: January 31 || If you are new or want to help, see irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction || https://etherpad.mozilla.org/sombrero-of-shame-leaderboard'
# [18:27] <froydnj> sombrero of shame? nice
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# [18:28] <@smaug> Ms2ger: the latter one should eventually go away. There isn't really any relation
# [18:28] <@smaug> er, Jesse
# [18:29] <@smaug> Jesse: why?
# [18:29] <Jesse> smaug: trying to figure out if i need to import both into the DOM fuzzer, r just nsEventNameList.h
# [18:30] <@smaug> Jesse: ah. Well neither of those has all the events FF dispatches
# [18:30] <Jesse> i know beforeprint is listed in nsEventNameList.h but not nsDOMEvent.cpp
# [18:30] <Jesse> :/
# [18:30] <Jesse> DOMWillOpenModalDialog is not listed in either file
# [18:30] <@smaug> I would assume DOMContentLoaded isn't either
# [18:31] <Ms2ger> nsEventNameList.h mainly has the ones that have on* attributes
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# [18:31] <@smaug> yeah, mainly
# [18:31] <@smaug> and the list in nsDOMEvent is mainly for those events which are dispatched using nsEvent struct
# [18:31] * joduinn-home is now known as joduinn-afk
# [18:31] <@smaug> (mainly from widget level)
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# [18:32] <Jesse> how can i get a reasonably complete list for the fuzzer?
# [18:33] <@smaug> use both those lists and look at source code for Dispatch*Event
# [18:34] <@smaug> Firefox UI might dispatch some events, though perhaps it is only for chrome
# [18:35] <Jesse> is there some way to listen for "all" events?
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# [18:36] <@smaug> no
# [18:37] <mounir> Ms2ger: so you are really going to have a AB patch? :)
# [18:39] <Ms2ger> mounir, yes :(
# [18:39] <mounir> Ms2ger: welcome to the club
# [18:39] <mounir> it's a shameful club though
# [18:40] <Ms2ger> But I don't want to be in your club!
# [18:40] <Ms2ger> Drinking wine and eating frogs...
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# [18:40] <mounir> Drinking wine for sure
# [18:40] <mounir> I'm not sure about frogs
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# [18:40] <mounir> I had frogs once and it was in an English restaurant in London ;)
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# [18:41] <Ms2ger> No excuse, only French people would eat frogs in London ;)
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# [18:41] <mounir> that was English cuisine!
# [18:41] <nemo> !@#$ hiding of http caught me again when copying a url :(
# [18:42] <nemo> I disable it in my main profile, but not in my test profiles, since they get deleted so often
# [18:42] <nemo> bleah
# [18:42] <nemo> in this case I was removing useless sections of a google image search query to make it shorter
# [18:42] <nemo> selected the rest, copied it. oh look. no http:// again :(
# [18:42] <Jesse> nemo: and you don't get the "http" if you've edited the url?
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# [18:43] * KWierso thought that was finally fixed
# [18:43] <nemo> Jesse: depends how you edit it
# [18:43] <nemo> searched for oarfish on google image search
# [18:43] <nemo> trimmed it down to
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# [18:43] <nemo> images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=oarfish
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# [18:43] <nemo> then selected using keyboard and copied
# [18:44] <nemo> select from current position, jumped to start w/ home, copied, pasted
# [18:44] <nemo> oh look. a broken url again
# [18:44] <Jesse> i've hit that trimming mozillazine urls
# [18:44] <nemo> haaaate that "feature"
# [18:44] <nemo> plus it trains users to screw up online posts
# [18:44] <nemo> and confused my SO who thought that made it a "different website"
# [18:45] <nemo> like there is http, https and "no http or https"
# [18:45] <@smaug> the whole http hiding thing is insane UI
# [18:45] <nemo> should be easier to disable it at least
# [18:45] <nemo> I mean for novices
# [18:45] <nemo> maybe in general prefs
# [18:46] <nemo> telling my mom how to use about:config over IM always worries me
# [18:46] <Ms2ger> A "tough cookie"? That's not an expression I'd heard before
# [18:47] <@smaug> and also, since web is moving more and more to https, hiding http is just misleading and inconsistent
# [18:47] * @smaug hates inconsistent UIs
# [18:47] <nemo> that too
# [18:47] <@smaug> ...and APIs
# [18:47] <Ms2ger> And specs
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# [18:47] <@smaug> Ms2ger: well, I was thinking whether I write API or spec :)
# [18:47] <nemo> smaug: not to mention screens are steadily widening, so the savings are rather minor
# [18:48] <Jesse> i think we should hide https and show http
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# [18:48] <nemo> smaug: heck. mozilla is greying out everything but the domain anyway
# [18:48] <nemo> that suggests that they don't care about the url.
# [18:48] <nemo> so the 7 characters at start are not a big deal
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# [18:48] <Ms2ger> Speaking of specs... smaug, you don't feel like writing some spec text for the new mutation stuff? :)
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# [18:49] <@smaug> once I get rid of this cycle collection stuff and finish the implementation
# [18:49] <Ms2ger> Once your todo list is empty, is that what you're saying? ;)
# [18:51] <@smaug> my todo list is atm : decrease CC times and finalize MutationObserver
# [18:51] <@smaug> (and review)
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# [18:52] <Ms2ger> Oh, something else
# [18:52] <@smaug> (and review specs)
# [18:52] <@smaug> I should read the Shadow DOM / Component stuff
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# [18:53] <azakai|2> is there a way to see what revision I am on, after I do hg update -r NUM (and I forget what NUM was)? hg tip gives the latest revision, not the one I updated to
# [18:53] <@smaug> currently I think that is not the right way to do things
# [18:53] <Ms2ger> smaug, do you know of any script-visible differences between opt and debug builds, except for object stringification?
# [18:54] <@smaug> debug builds can call some DOMWindowUtil methods, IIRC
# [18:54] <@smaug> without any security checks, IIRC
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# [18:54] <@smaug> but in general, I don't recall anything major
# [18:54] <Ms2ger> Good
# [18:55] <@smaug> why, may I ask?
# [18:55] <Ms2ger> I'm importing AryehGregor's tests
# [18:56] <@smaug> to mochitest?
# [18:56] <Ms2ger> And wondering if my time would be better spend convincing him to change that one test, or implementing something to ok/todo tests depending on opt/debug
# [18:56] <@smaug> I assume you're reviewing those tests too :)
# [18:56] <Ms2ger> mochitest-ish
# [18:56] <mounir> Ms2ger: which ones?
# [18:57] <Ms2ger> Range, atm
# [18:57] <Ms2ger> And trying to make it easy to import more
# [18:57] <Ms2ger> smaug, not really, do you know how big they are? :)
# [18:57] <Ms2ger> I sure hope whoever fixes the failures will review them
# [18:58] <@smaug> are there many failures?
# [18:58] <Ms2ger> His WebIDL test, yes :)
# [18:58] <Ms2ger> Range, not so much
# [18:58] <Ms2ger> Well, not so much relatively speking
# [18:58] <Ms2ger> +a somewhere
# [18:59] <@smaug> oh, well, WebIDL is changing still so much so I wouldn't import those tests
# [18:59] <@smaug> and I assume WebIDL tests fail on every browser pretty badly
# [18:59] <Ms2ger> Yeah, they do
# [19:00] <Ms2ger> I think it would be useful to have the coverage as we're working on dom bindings
# [19:00] <Ms2ger> If only so we notice subtle behaviour changes
# [19:01] <Ms2ger> https://hg.mozilla.org/try/file/cbbc2252f511/dom/tests/mochitest/w3c/webapps.json is the list of failures
# [19:01] <edmorley> do talos changes such as that in bug 685183 need reconfigs or whatever? or will it have taken immediate effect (and as such be the cause of the failures on inbound and m-c)
# [19:01] <Ms2ger> 5000 lines :/
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# [19:01] <Ms2ger> jmaher, ^
# [19:02] <davida> aren't addons supposed to be compatible by default now? mass password reset can't be installed w/ nightlies...
# [19:02] <gavin> jdm: fwiw requesting review from firefox-reviewers isn't too useful, untargeted requests are already sent to the list
# [19:02] <jdm> gavin: oh, that's useful
# [19:03] <jdm> gavin: every untargeted review, or just in some product?
# [19:03] <gavin> in the Firefox product
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# [19:05] <KWierso> davida: yeah
# [19:05] <@smaug> interesting, I have few clang processes doing nothing
# [19:05] <@smaug> and I'm not compiling anything
# [19:06] <@smaug> perhaps I should switch back to gcc
# [19:06] <@smaug> which gives less annoying warnings
# [19:07] <@smaug> (I haven't noticed any significant performance difference between clang and gcc)
# [19:07] <Ms2ger> Heresy! ;)
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# [19:08] <KWierso> gavin: you're on the list of developers for mass password reset, can you see what's going on for davida? :)
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# [19:13] <KWierso> davida: actually, if I look at the extension's install.rdf file, the claimed maxVersion is 3.6a1pre, which doesn't meet the "compatible by default" minimum of 4.0
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# [19:14] <KWierso> since the devs are apparently bumping the maxversion from AMO's interface (which doesn't bump the install.rdf maxversion), AMO's claimed maxversion of 11.0a1 doesn't matter
# [19:15] <gavin> KWierso: the amo version is all that matters when installing from there
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# [19:15] <KWierso> gavin: it's being rejected when I try to install on Nightly, though
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# [19:16] <gavin> I'll bump the maxversion
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# [19:17] <KWierso> gavin: changing extensions.minCompatibleAppVersion to 3.5 and extensions.minCompatiblePlatformVersion to 1.9.1 in about:config lets it install
# [19:18] <davida> KWierso: ah, ok.
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# [19:19] <gavin> KWierso: sounds like a bug worth fixing
# [19:19] * KWierso looks at Unfocused...
# [19:20] <gavin> anyhow I bumped the maxVersion
# [19:20] <gavin> should take effect shortly
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# [19:20] <KWierso> gavin: or maybe changing those prefs didn't do anything, but I managed to catch your bump at the same time
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# [19:23] <Ms2ger> gavin, hmm, so can I now just request review from the wind in Firefox?
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# [19:25] <jmaher> edmorley: the talos changes need to be rolled out by releng atm
# [19:26] <jmaher> so we make a lot of changes and then get it deployed during a reconfig or releng downtime
# [19:26] <Ms2ger> So why did you break it all? :)
# [19:26] <jmaher> Ms2ger: lol
# [19:26] <@smaug> Ms2ger: that would be nice for dom too. Each peer could then review equal amounts patches.
# [19:26] <edmorley> jmaher: any idea what could have broken things at 7am MVT today?
# [19:26] <edmorley> (filing bug atm)
# [19:26] <Ms2ger> smaug, well, no, I think you and bz would end up reviewing even more :)
# [19:26] * @smaug assumes he will not reach 60 reviews this month
# [19:26] <jmaher> edmorley: no idea; I suspect there was either a hiccup on the network
# [19:27] <jmaher> or maybe some issues with disks on certain slaves
# [19:28] <edmorley> jmaher: multiple machines, trees and for several hours
# [19:28] <jmaher> edmorley: hmm
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# [19:29] <edmorley> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?jobname=talos%20tp and https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&jobname=talos%20tp (plus obviously press down a few)
# [19:29] <jmaher> odd that we are getting crashes and timeouts
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# [19:30] <azakai|2> if a bug introduces a regression, and i file a bug for the regression, does it depend on or block the original bug?
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# [19:31] <edmorley> azakai|2: block :-)
# [19:31] <azakai|2> thanks edmorley, i always get mixed up by that for some reason
# [19:31] <jmaher> edmorley: so this is the first instance I see on inbound: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&jobname=talos%20tp&rev=757a48403154
# [19:32] <jmaher> and that is on osx 64 bit
# [19:32] <edmorley> azakai|2: I remember it as "the regression blocks the original landing from being truly fixed" (and therefore verified)
# [19:32] <jmaher> edmorley: but the frequency of that is pretty high; wonder if the responsiveness stuff is causing it to crash; that has been live for almost 2 months, but we had troubles initially with osx crashes
# [19:33] <azakai|2> edmorley: ah, nice
# [19:33] <jmaher> edmorley: it all sounds like a slave issue
# [19:33] <jmaher> or a drive that serves the files got corrupted
# [19:34] <edmorley> yeah that would make sense
# [19:34] <jmaher> ok, afk for a few hours- nice sunny day
# [19:35] <gavin> Ms2ger: not if you want review
# [19:35] * jmaher is now known as jmaher|afk
# [19:35] <Ms2ger> Alright
# [19:35] <Ms2ger> Not that I want reviews in Firefox :)
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# [20:28] <Unfocused> KWierso: minCompatibleAppVersion / minCompatiblePlatformVersion apply to compatibility rages regardless of where they comes from (instal.rdf or AMO), pretty sure you're hitting an AMO bug :\ (bug 714698)
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# [20:29] <KWierso> Unfocused: yeah, Mossop already duped my bug onto that one
# [20:29] <KWierso> thanks
# [20:29] <Unfocused> :)
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# [20:38] <@smaug> edmorley: is it ok to push few patches?
# [20:38] <edmorley> smaug: yup :-)
# [20:39] <@smaug> k, thanks
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# [20:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0674f2bdd78b - Olli Pettay - Bug 716006 - Don't traverse NodeInfoManager so much, r=jst, mccr8
# [20:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/4052f4936e1c - Olli Pettay - Bug 714633 - Release message manager related data structures more aggressively, part2, r=jst
# [20:40] <Ms2ger> / *$\&([^&])$(:)?$/
# [20:40] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/39a83f2080dc - Olli Pettay - Bug 714633 - Release message manager related data structures more aggressively, r=jst
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# [20:41] <@smaug> Ms2ger: ?
# [20:41] <Ms2ger> An awful regexp I just stumbled upon
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# [20:42] <mauke> what's it for?
# [20:44] <Callek> mauke: making your brain spin
# [20:44] <mauke> not really
# [20:44] <mauke> regexes are easy
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# [20:44] <jbuck> if you're a state machine!
# [20:44] <mauke> I am
# [20:44] <Callek> (&foo): at EOL
# [20:44] <mauke> and almost all of that regex is potentially justifiable (with the exception of \&)
# [20:45] <mauke> missing a + then
# [20:45] <Callek> preceded by 0 or more whitespace
# [20:45] <Callek> well : is ()? so its optional
# [20:45] <mauke> I know what it matches
# [20:46] <Callek> mauke: ooo I don't know what it matches, since I don't know where its run, if you do tell me :-0
# [20:46] <mauke> what?
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# [20:55] <bbondy> taras: Is the about:startup extension a good one to use for startup time testing? Also should I be rebooting in between startups?
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# [21:01] <gaston> that's cold start vs warm start
# [21:01] <gaston> if you reboot it's a cold start
# [21:02] <bbondy> k so I guess warm starts aren't as useful
# [21:03] <WG9s> gaston: well that is not exactly true a you just downloaded a new version and installed it and never ran it before without doing a reboot. that is still a coldstart on first fun is it not?
# [21:05] <WG9s> It is certainly a coldstart if you never had any version of Firefox ever installed before so coldstart/warmstart is unrelated to OS reboots.
# [21:05] <froydnj> not necessarily, because the install is probably in the OS's file cache?
# [21:06] <WG9s> It could be related but is really an entirely separate concept.
# [21:06] <froydnj> I meant that start after install is not necessarily a coldstart
# [21:07] <bbondy> would be useful to know if you install do a diff path
# [21:07] <bbondy> if it is just as good as reboot
# [21:07] <WG9s> Yes all I meant was a reboot was not the only way to get a coldstart.
# [21:07] * mattwoodrow|away is now known as mattwoodrow
# [21:07] <WG9s> So like I sadi the reboot issue is really not the point.
# [21:08] <bbondy> could I install 6 of the same builds to 6 diff locations and avoid 6 restarts?
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# [21:11] <qheaden> Unfocused: Hello :-) . I submitted a small patch for the addon manager search bug just to see if I am moving in the right direction.
# [21:11] <WG9s> Oh so trying to do 6 test of something by installign the same version side-by-side 6 time? Well, depending on what you are trying to isolate, to completely isolate them you would need ot have them use 6 different profiles.
# [21:13] <bbondy> just want to measure cold startup time 6 times in a row
# [21:13] <bbondy> with diff builds
# [21:13] <bbondy> I think reboot is safest
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# [21:14] <bbondy> and will give the most consistent results
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# [21:17] <WG9s> bbondy: yes measuring the same way is generally better to get consistent results that would then have statistical significance.
# [21:18] <WG9s> I did not understand the original basis for the question.
# [21:18] <WG9s> I came in late here I guess
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# [21:20] <Callek> bbondy: yea, imo I would restart each time, safe that way as your test :-)
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# [21:20] <Callek> bbondy: of course if you're making automated tests for it, might want to investigate if the "put the build elsewhere" is enough :-)
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# [21:21] <bbondy> no automated tests, just investigating bug 692255
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# [21:24] <WG9s> bbondy: OIC that is the whole as far as i can see, no one has EVER manged to prove to me that any applications starts faster because fo the Windows prefetch data. Everything including just getting your system to actually be responsive at all can be improved by nuking the windows prefetch folder.
# [21:24] <Callek> bbondy: two comments: #1 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=586721&action=diff#a/toolkit/components/maintenanceservice/workmonitor.cpp_sec2 you dropped the log, #2 does this have to be done by maintenance service, (remember SeaMonkey can't use it yet, since we can't sign our updates
# [21:24] <bbondy> WG9s: ya taras' suggestion was to nuke the prefetch files for faster FF startup on windows
# [21:24] <WG9s> This si really a Microsoft issue and not a Mozilla issue. but then it does make us slower.
# [21:25] <WG9s> yes my feeling is nuke the prefetch files to jsut make windows faster in general.
# [21:25] <bbondy> thx will fix the log for unrecognized commands
# [21:26] <WG9s> This was just a very poor implemetation of a something by Microsoft to start with that I have not found anything that is not slower becasue of it.
# [21:26] <bbondy> Callek: Perhaps on some OS we can bypass the service (XP?) but for sure on VIsta and possibly win7 you need to be elevated
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# [21:27] <Callek> bbondy: ahh, is there a way for SeaMonkey then to be able to use the service WITHOUT using it for updates?
# [21:27] <bbondy> Callek: Also the service can start to be used for other things even if it's not yet used for update.
# [21:27] <bbondy> ;)
# [21:28] <Callek> bbondy: basically if we use it for things other than update at all, I want a way to install it/use it for SeaMonkey without using it for updates ;-)
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# [21:28] <Callek> bbondy: and the other caveat I just thought of, is that we need to keep the service named differently for SM and Firefox!
# [21:28] <Callek> (and thunderbird)
# [21:28] <Callek> I don't know if it works just fine that way :-)
# [21:28] <bbondy> Callek: Callek: the plan was to use the same service across products, but that is subject to change.
# [21:28] <BenB> hey... why would directory service.get("ComsD") fail, but "CurProcD" works? this is seamonkey, self-compiled.
# [21:28] <bbondy> Callek: Also there is no harm in it being able to process updates, just don't add application code to use the service.
# [21:29] <Callek> bbondy: my concern is if we have a Firefox 12 installed, but a SeaMonkey based on Gecko 15
# [21:29] <Callek> for example
# [21:29] <bbondy> understood, as is now you will be using the newest version.
# [21:29] <bbondy> for all.
# [21:29] <Callek> bbondy: is the service exe installed/stored outside of Program Files?
# [21:30] <bbondy> and it will always be backwards compatible
# [21:30] <bbondy> Callek: always in program files, on x64 here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Maintenance Service
# [21:30] <BenB> bbondy: we've tried to use common services for all mozilla apps in the past. see e.g. "GRE". always ended up a disaster with lookup, versions, uninstall, so we stopped.
# [21:30] <Callek> ahh stored as Mozilla Maintenance Service"
# [21:31] <Callek> bbondy: ok, I'll have to help test/figure out that stuff then, but if its used for other things I'll want to get it used in SeaMonkey :)
# [21:31] <BenB> bbondy: are you sure there's no Windows service that we can ask to keep us uptodate?
# [21:31] <BenB> MSI or anything like that?
# [21:31] <Callek> BenB: well we also don't ship an msi yet
# [21:31] <BenB> Callek: I know. but it's highly requested.
# [21:32] <Callek> bbondy: well if you Uninstall Firefox via windows applications display, does it uninstall the service?
# [21:32] <bbondy> BenB: the service does not handle updates itself, it bypasses the uac prompt
# [21:32] <Callek> or does the service stay?
# [21:32] <BenB> and instead of puring time into writing a system service, and all the issues you discuss, would be better spent with MSI
# [21:32] <bbondy> Callek: no it is a diff product basically included in Firefox installs
# [21:32] <Callek> (as in, if Seamonkey was installed later, but is still present)
# [21:32] <Callek> bbondy: ok, just "making sure"
# [21:32] <BenB> bbondy: yuck
# [21:32] <bbondy> Callek: It's a separate product, and you can uninstall it via add/remove programs
# [21:34] <BenB> bbondy: this sounds like a big mess, all of that: separate service, versioning, uninstall, security problems.
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# [21:34] <BenB> bbondy: users hate it when they have more than one uninstaller for a program in the Windows "add/remove" list
# [21:35] <bbondy> BenB: Please read the feature page: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Silent_Update and implementation page: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Windows_Service_Silent_Update I'm afraid you are making some snap judgments with a poor understanding of the history of the task.
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# [21:35] <BenB> bbondy: yes, I only vaguely understand the task. but I think I do understand the implications of the road you venture, and I think they are worse than the feature you implement.
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# [21:37] <bbondy> I'm willing to discuss it more privately with you but only after you read all of that data. Alternately if you'd like we can setup a call with the silent update team once you're up to speed. I see no benefit in discussing this more here at this time.
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# [21:39] <BenB> bbondy: I know where you are coming from, but please see where I am coming from: me, and many others like it very much that firefox does not leave trails on the machine. install is just dropping in a directory, and uninstall is deleting that directory. that is a highly appreciated feature byitself, and you're just making that go away. I'm just saying that there's a significant downside to that approach.
# [21:40] <BenB> I'll leave it at that, and just hope that you will find another solution.
# [21:40] <bbondy> BenB: Please post a new bug in bugzilla and CC netzen@gmail.com and robert.bugzilla@gmail.com and we can discuss it in the context of that bug. Thanks.
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# [21:58] <bbondy> Callek: Regarding our previous conversation about using the service without updates, you'd be able to do this by not having "app.update.service.enabled", true in your default settings and by having --enable-maintenance-service in your .mozconfig
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# [22:06] <Unfocused> qheaden: ok, i'll look at it when i can. i'm just about to head out of town for the next 2 days, so there may be some lag
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# [22:09] <qheaden> Unfocused: Ok, no problem. Just wanted to put you on alert.
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# [23:20] <darktrojan> erk, the devmo skin uses the same files as the old one
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# [23:20] <darktrojan> so it gets messed up until the cache is updated
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# [23:22] <darktrojan> but on the other hand, it is hot
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# [23:25] <Callek> who is familiar with where to move a js::gc::PushMarkStack crash bug to?
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# Session Close: Sun Jan 08 00:00:02 2012

The end :)