/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-03-19 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Mar 19 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [00:02] <philor> and we have it for the same reason we have every other thing in configure - "imma write this new thing, but people are going to bitch, so imma let them skip building it, that way when os/2 breaks they can do that" time passes "why would anyone build with every decoder disabled?"
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# [00:06] <mcsmurf> whoa https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/form.mozlist
# [00:06] <mcsmurf> a mailing list request form, just what I need :)
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# [00:07] <kwierso> mcsmurf: http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0zyjoQa3o1rrf1eeo1_400.jpg comes to mind
# [00:08] <mcsmurf> heh
# [00:08] <philor> yeah, the lack of a radiobutton for REMOVE ALL THE LISTS is a critical flaw in that form
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# [00:09] <mcsmurf> actually, I wonder if I can create a Distribution List on mozilla.org!
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# [00:14] <hvq> Hi, I am from Google Summer of Code, I have an idea for Thunderbird. Is there any mentor that I can discuss with? Thanx
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# [00:20] <njn> glandium: ping
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# [00:22] <mcsmurf> hvq: the mail people are in #maildev
# [00:22] <mcsmurf> hvq: but right now (Sunday afternoon/evening) is a bad time I think
# [00:23] <hvq> mcsmurf: Thank you, it's Monday here so I didnt think about that, sorry :)
# [00:24] <mcsmurf> hvq: afaik most mail people live in the US and Europe
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# [00:24] <philor> mmm, I do believe we've made --disable-safe-browsing fatal
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# [00:25] <hvq> mcsmurf: ok. Thanx
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# [00:32] <philor> and --disable-crypto is fatal
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# [00:33] <philor> quite the little minefield we've got :)
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# [00:45] <kbrosnan> anyone in the mv office?
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# [00:49] <philor> khuey: you okay with leaving in fatal packaging, making --disable-safe-browsing fatal?
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# [01:00] <@khuey> philor: for the moment, yeah
# [01:00] <@khuey> if anybody cares they can fix disable-safe-browsing
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# [01:02] <philor> wow, we have a --disable-cookies, I bet that'll work out great for me
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# [01:07] <philor> indeed, that would be a fatal build error
# [01:09] * njn wonders why netwerk/ is misspelt
# [01:09] <philor> because it replaced network/
# [01:10] <philor> and netwerk/ must have seemed like a better idea than network2/
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# [01:16] <philor> though since network/ was gone by 0.6, it's possible the need to keep netwerk/ distinct is gone by now - probably not too many people updating their m18 tree to m-c and expecting that their changes to network/ will not be clobbered
# [01:17] <njn> philor: I was happy to see libpr0n renamed as image
# [01:18] <bkero> :
# [01:18] <bkero> sad
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# [01:21] <@smaug> oh, when was libpr0n renamed
# [01:21] <mwu> when someone forgot what the internet was about
# [01:21] <philor> http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/m10/source/include/allxpstr.h#5380 - now quit yer bitchin' about how bad l10n is now!
# [01:22] <@smaug> (renaming is painful, because version control systems don't handle it usually well enough)
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# [01:28] <derf> smaug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66984
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# [01:42] <kwierso> hehe... http://windowsteamblog.com/ie/b/ie/archive/2012/03/18/understanding-browser-usage-share-data.aspx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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# [01:51] <kwierso> I still can't see the "windowsteamblog.com" domain name without thinking it stands for "window steam blog" and getting confused for a moment
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# [01:53] <philor> speaking of which, I should probably drop my feed subscription for http://blogs.msdn.com/b/rssteam/
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# [01:55] <kwierso> philor: that seems like the most redundant feed ever
# [01:57] <philor> heh, http://blogs.msdn.com/b/rssteam/archive/2005/06/25/432686.aspx - I'd completely forgotten that there was a time when Microsoft listened to me
# [01:57] <philor> one of several mistakes they made in that field :D
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# [02:00] <kwierso> so, does javascript.options.mem.gc_incremental actually control whether IGC is enabled?
# [02:00] <kwierso> because it's false on my profile, but about support says IGC is 1
# [02:01] <Mossop> I saw some bug on that somewhere the other day
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# [02:03] <kwierso> Mossop: bug 735944?
# [02:03] <Mossop> That's the one
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# [02:52] <philor> gavin: lookie lookie! https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=10170450&tree=Mozilla-Inbound#error1
# [02:53] <catlee> I wonder if we could include minidumps as data urls
# [02:54] <philor> yeah, I don't have nearly enough fun loading logs as it is
# [02:54] <catlee> just encode the whole build as a data url
# [02:55] <philor> I'm pretty sure the test timeout was because the windows firewall was off, though, I better file that
# [02:56] <catlee> I bet that pops up all the time
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# [02:59] <philor> I'm surprised not to see the one for "you have unused icons on your desktop, these make some long-gone PM at Microsoft angry when he sees your mess, would you like Windows to delete them?"
# [03:00] <philor> though I guess I've never seen the desktop, so maybe it doesn't have any
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# [03:03] * philor goes looking for Win64 hangs
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# [03:05] <philor> mmm, no MINIDUMP_STACKWALK binary, that's likely to be a problem if we ever stop ignoring Win64
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# [03:06] <catlee-away> bet the win32 one will work, just needs to be told that
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# [03:10] <philor> bug 736912
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# [03:17] <cadecairos> I'm trying to push to try, but I see "abort: stream ended unexpectedly (got 0 bytes, expected 6)"
# [03:18] <cadecairos> anyone know what might cause this?
# [03:18] <njn> anyone understand how nsMemoryCacheDevice works?
# [03:18] <derf> cadecairos: What URL are you pushing to?
# [03:19] <cadecairos> ssh://hg.mozilla.org/try
# [03:19] <cadecairos> derf: ^
# [03:19] <derf> Okay, that looks correct.
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# [03:20] <derf> What happens if you ssh -v -v -v to hg.mozilla.org?
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# [03:22] <cadecairos> hmm it seems to work fine if I do hg push -f ssh://hg.mozilla.org/try/
# [03:22] <jdm> njn: partially. what do you want to know?
# [03:22] <cadecairos> must be a problem in my .hgrc
# [03:22] <nthomas> push -f is normally required
# [03:22] <derf> Yeah.
# [03:22] <njn> jdm: in nsCacheEntry, does mData point to the main chunk of memory ?
# [03:22] <njn> jdm: I'm writing a memory reporter
# [03:22] <cadecairos> before I was doing hg push -f try
# [03:22] <jdm> njn: sorry, that's beyond my ken
# [03:22] <nthomas> sounded more like an intermittent network issue
# [03:22] <njn> jdm: np
# [03:23] <derf> My script does
# [03:23] <derf> hg push -f -rtip ssh://hg.mozilla.org/try
# [03:23] * njn will try it and see if it crashes
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# [03:39] <jlebar> When did we branch m-c for FF3.6 and FF4? I presume this is in some hg tag somewhere...
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# [03:41] <kwierso> "a long time ago"
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# [03:44] <nthomas> jlebar: look at 'hg tags | grep BASE'
# [03:44] <kinetik> but not in a galaxy far, far away
# [03:44] <jlebar> nthomas, Aha. And Gecko 2.0 was FF4 -- Gecko 2.1 was FF5?
# [03:45] <nthomas> 2.1 was a mobile thing IIRC
# [03:45] <nthomas> FF3.6 was 1.9.2, FF4.0 was 2.0
# [03:46] <nthomas> someone forget the base tag for the latest release
# [03:46] <nthomas> er, merge to aurora
# [03:46] <jlebar> nthomas, But GECKO_2_0_BASE was last modified March 3, 2011.
# [03:47] <nthomas> created after the fact, perhaps
# [03:47] <jlebar> nthomas, What I'm seeing is the commit date, not the date of tagging.
# [03:47] <nthomas> where are you seeing that >?
# [03:48] <jlebar> nthomas, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1525747 ?
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# [03:51] <nthomas> I've forgotten what we did for the branch mechanics around the 4 release. you think the date is too late ?
# [03:51] <nthomas> 4.0rc1 was built March 4
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# [03:54] <jlebar> nthomas, That could be the date we branched for FF5...
# [03:54] <nthomas> oh, yes. it will be
# [03:55] <nthomas> what are you asking then ?
# [03:55] <jlebar> nthomas, I thought GECKO_2_BASE was the base revision at which we started developing FF4.
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# [03:55] <jlebar> nthomas, But if it's the base revision of the FF4 *branch off m-c*, that makes sense.
# [03:55] <nthomas> yeah, the latter
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# [03:56] <jlebar> nthomas, Cool. Thanks!
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# [04:36] <@bz> so ....
# [04:37] <@bz> when I try to update nightly it tells me "Update failed"
# [04:37] <@bz> is that ... expected?
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# [04:39] <kwierso> bz: how recent is your nightly?
# [04:39] <@bz> 2012-03-14
# [04:40] <kwierso> there was some weird stuff going on around that time
# [04:40] <@bz> off the profiling branch
# [04:40] <@bz> if that matter
# [04:40] <@bz> <sigh>
# [04:40] <kwierso> oh, it might not have picked up the fix on that branch?
# [04:40] * @bz is not going to worry about that right now
# [04:40] <@bz> afaik that branch is identical to m-c
# [04:40] <kwierso> a manual update to something in the 14.0 range should work for now
# [04:40] <@bz> except for the mozconfig
# [04:40] <@bz> ok
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# [04:41] * @bz will do that tomorrow, maybe
# [04:41] <philor> except for the mozconfig and the frequent failure to actually get pushes mirrored
# [04:41] <@bz> thanks!
# [04:41] <kwierso> there was some weird thing going on where version upgrade checks got confused and said 13 -> 14 was a downgrade
# [04:41] <@bz> nice
# [04:41] <@bz> philor: grrr
# [04:41] <@bz> philor: for real?
# [04:42] <philor> bz: ehsan's repo gets corrupted a lot, I forget why
# [04:42] <kwierso> bz: and I think some custom magic had to be applied to the updates or something to get it fixed for this one time, while the fix in general should be in there for the future, now
# [04:43] <philor> and until he sets up a mail server on that box so cron can mail him, when it gets stuck it stays stuck until I wander by to star things and find that it hasn't had a push for a while, like days
# [04:44] <@bz> ok
# [04:44] <philor> beyond the upgrade/downgrade thing, which i think was Windows-only, apparently there's another fun thing where if the nightly fails after it uploads, and I retrigger it, I then put you in that state
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# [04:44] * @bz is definitely not on Windows
# [04:44] <philor> which I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if I did
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# [04:45] <philor> I'm under orders not to, but I have A Problem With Authority
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# [04:47] <philor> but no, every nightly from the 14th until now was green and happy
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# [05:02] <philor> AryehGregor++
# [05:02] <philor> dunno why, when bug 668716 started intermittently happening, I didn't think to look at whether in the "passing" cases it just wasn't running anything at all
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# [05:32] <mconnor> philor: so... it was an intermittently running permaorange?
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# [05:34] <philor> mconnor: indeed - be sort of interesting to know whether in its previous life as a plain mochitest, it absolutely never ran, or whether the move to chrome just made it expect a different number than what it would actually get
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# [05:35] * kwierso isn't sure if that's better or worse then either a permaorange or an intermittent failure...
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# [05:39] * philor changes topic to 'Next uplift: 24th April || New/want to help? See #introduction || http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
# [05:40] <philor> permaorange is almost always better
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# [05:43] <RobertClaypool> Olli Pettay wrote the code referred to in Bug #732343 yet he dosn't appear to be on the CC list.
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# [05:44] <RobertClaypool> ....or at least he checked it in.
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# [05:46] <mconnor> kwierso: permaorange is easier to fix!
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# [05:46] * kwierso makes note: philor and mconnor say to write more permaorange tests, as they are preferable
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# [05:47] <philor> absolutely, it'll help a great deal with the project to REMOVE ALL THE TESTS
# [05:47] <RobertClaypool> thought as much
# [05:48] <kwierso> RobertClaypool: do you have bugzilla privileges to edit the bug and add him?
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# [05:49] <RobertClaypool> Apparently not.
# [05:49] <kwierso> RobertClaypool: done
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# [05:51] <RobertClaypool> thanks
# [05:51] <mconnor> kwierso: please don't make me hurt you :D
# [05:52] * philor fails to see where smaug gets caught with the OpenContainer there
# [05:52] <kwierso> mconnor: hey, I only care about the jetpack tests, and no one cares about those :)
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# [05:53] <philor> oh noes, don't make them permaorange!
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# [05:56] <philor> though we should be free of the permared before too long
# [05:56] <kwierso> philor++
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# [06:02] <philor> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/SpiderMonkey/JS_Debugger_API_Guide#The_Debugger.DebuggeeWoundRun_exception sounds sort of painful and dangerous, wouldn't .DebuggeeHurtfulWordsRun be nicer?
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# [06:39] <philor> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?find=%2Fmobile%2Fandroid%2Fbase%2Ftests%2F&string=sleep
# [06:39] <philor> it's the setTimeout(magicNumber) of a new generation!
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# [06:57] * philor sees red
# [06:57] <njn> philor: WTF? that built on the try server
# [06:58] <kwierso> aliens
# [06:58] <philor> merges
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# [06:59] <njn> philor: my try server run was very recent, not much scope for merge bustage
# [06:59] * njn will back out
# [06:59] <njn> sigh
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# [07:02] <njn> done
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# [07:05] <njn> that's the strangest compile error... a MOZ_STATIC_ASSERT I put in layout/style/nsCSSDataBlock.h is somehow conflicting with a JS_STATIC_ASSERT in js/src/jsval.h
# [07:05] <philor> I'm glad to hear it's not just my lack of knowledge that's making me wtf at that
# [07:06] <JonathanS> yo dawg, I heard you like assert so I can put one assert conflicts with another assert
# [07:06] <njn> philor: I'm going to stop for the day and hope it disappears once I update tomorrow morning
# [07:06] <njn> the irony is that JS_STATIC_ASSERT just expands to MOZ_STATIC_ASSERT
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# [07:07] <JonathanS> njn, why it need so many ASSERT define?
# [07:08] <njn> JonathanS: I don't understand the question
# [07:08] <JonathanS> njn, sorry, why Mozilla programs needs so many different ASSERT?
# [07:08] <njn> JonathanS: the JS engine can be built standalone, so it is its own little world
# [07:09] <JonathanS> that is some world for standalone
# [07:09] <philor> and because JS_STATIC_ASSERTs all have the message "Frickin' look it up yourself if you want to know what I asserted"
# [07:10] <njn> philor: the line number is all you need
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# [07:10] <philor> both true and my point
# [07:10] <njn> ah
# [07:11] <philor> it's not a bad plan, considering some of the asserts in the rest of the codebase, like "Huh?" and "How did that happen?"
# [07:12] <JonathanS> it is like Android Log.wtf
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# [07:15] <nigelb> njn: heh, http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/19498837805/you-were-supposed-to-shrink-me-nick
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# [07:18] <JonathanS> nigelb http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/19507929596
# [07:19] <nigelb> haha
# [07:19] <philor> huh. your try parent is three inbound pushes down.
# [07:20] <JonathanS> land everything!
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# [07:22] <nigelb> I'm loving the new about:home.
# [07:22] <nigelb> It looks nice.
# [07:23] <philor> with the only one that could vaguely do anything being https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/4456fb544bb7 changing an NS_ASSERTION to a warning
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# [07:57] <philor> excellent, I fixed up someone's slightly broken first-patch so it would actually work, but in the meantime we decided to legislate morality in packaging, so now it's broken again
# [07:58] <philor> why let trivial warnings remain trivial warnings, when you can BURN THE BUILDS
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# [07:59] <glandium> njn: pong
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# [07:59] <philor> "warning-larError: found error(s) while packaging, see above for details."
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# [08:00] <philor> because trivial warnings as errors should always be jammed into the middle of a line hundreds of lines below the actual trivial warning
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# [08:07] <hsivonen> Is Zimbra login broken for everyone or just for me?
# [08:07] <sstangl> worked for me a few moments ago.
# [08:08] <hsivonen> I wonder if my password has expired and I've somehow managed to ignore the warnings
# [08:09] <glob> hsivonen, can you access the phonebook?
# [08:09] <hsivonen> hooray. I've been locked out of everything that needs LDAP login
# [08:09] <glob> hsivonen, ah, snap
# [08:09] <hsivonen> glob: nope
# [08:10] <glob> hsivonen, you'll have to file a bug to get a reset
# [08:10] <hsivonen> ok
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# [08:10] <philor> remember when hsivonen used to be around, before we unpersoned him? those were good times...
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# [08:14] <hub> good thing bugzilla does not use LDAP :-)
# [08:15] <glob> hub, yeah, not directly. i have a script which cross-checks the ldap with bmo, so when staff leave i can disable their bmo account (if it's a @mozilla.com address)
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# [08:20] <hub> glob: ouch. and no chance to switch to a new address?
# [08:20] <glob> hub, they can, and should, switch to a new address
# [08:20] <glob> hub, i asked HR to include it in their exit notes
# [08:20] <hub> good call
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# [08:21] <glob> hub, if they try to login they get a message describing how to reclaim their account (with a new address)
# [08:21] <hub> nice
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# [08:21] <glob> hub, in case you're wondering, the reason is because @mozilla.com addresses automatically get access to confidential mozilla bugs
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# [08:21] <hub> glob: yeah make sense
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# [08:22] <nigelb> glob: Nice. You run it manually?
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# [08:23] <glob> nigelb, scripted report
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# [08:24] <nigelb> Ooh. Cool
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# [08:31] <philor> self-serve will be busted for a while, or maybe until tomorrow, accepting your requests but not acting on them until later, so don't just keep hitting the button
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# [08:32] <glob> happy belated bmo update day! https://bugzil.la/734009,734850,731201,736236,736595
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# [08:43] * philor changes topic to 'self-serve busted: bug 736946 || Next uplift: 24th April || New/want to help? See #introduction || http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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# [08:47] <gaston> doh. firefox 11 on ppc doesnt exit properly on ppc upon close, sits there eating cpu
# [08:47] <gaston> and i didn't catch it before...
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# [10:43] <philor> AC_DEFINE() for Preprocessory.py, right?
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# [10:46] <philor> oh, no, AC_SUBST and add to the pile of DEFINES in browser/installer/Makefile.in
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# [10:50] <glandium> philor: AC_DEFINE is for stuff that ends up in mozilla-config.h
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# [10:51] <philor> one of these times when I relearn all of it I should fix up https://developer.mozilla.org/en/configure.in
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# [10:52] <Ms2ger> "...the great computer-science tradition of using confusing, overlapping names..."
# [10:52] <philor> since among other things, it fails to mention what you want to do if you want to use Preprocessor.py, and the same thing that you want to do if you only need to use the C++ preprocessor in a few files
# [10:55] <gabor> Ms2ger: if there is no consistenty at all in a file about using {} for one liner if branches or not, what policy should I use? (AccessCheck.cpp)
# [10:56] <Ms2ger> In XPConnect, don't brace
# [10:56] <philor> jwatt: even though I just starred one of them, I think you're busted on scrolling/image-1.html on Mac and Android
# [10:56] <Ms2ger> And yeah, it is a mix of gecko and jseng styles :/
# [10:57] <philor> or maybe it's further down, and I've been starring it for hours
# [10:57] <gabor> Ms2ger: ok, thanks
# [10:57] <Ms2ger> Np
# [10:57] <philor> jwatt: tell roc he busted scrolling/image-1.html, thx :)
# [10:58] <glandium> Ms2ger: if there were only 2 styles...
# [10:58] <jwatt> philor: roc's on the opposite side of the planet to me :)
# [10:58] <jwatt> plus I think you just did
# [10:58] <Ms2ger> glandium, yeah :(
# [10:58] <philor> I FIND CAPSLOCK HELPS FOR THAT
# [10:59] <Ms2ger> glandium, though XPConnect mostly sticks with these two
# [10:59] <philor> roc: I'm backing you out in 5 if you're sensibly not around
# [10:59] <@roc> hmm?
# [10:59] <@roc> what have I done?
# [10:59] <Ms2ger> BREAK ALL THE THINGS
# [11:00] <philor> roc: Mac and Android XUL, layout/reftests/scrolling/image-1.html, from https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/0fe31dd7bbc5
# [11:00] <@roc> image-1.html is a new test
# [11:01] <philor> well, conveniently, we have a randomorange for a test with that filename in a different directory, which enabled me to star it for a while
# [11:01] <philor> "...the great computer-science tradition of using confusing, overlapping names..."
# [11:01] <Ms2ger> :)
# [11:02] <philor> should probably rename it to fred-1.html, when you fails-if it
# [11:02] <@roc> hey, I invoked another great computer-science tradition --- putting the confusing names in different, confusing namespaces
# [11:02] <Ms2ger> Hear, hear
# [11:03] <jwatt> also none of the names of the files in the orange bug are actually image-1.html ;)
# [11:04] <@roc> philor: can I push a teeny, tiny fix for the test?
# [11:04] <philor> roc: it's 2:56 am, you can do anything you like
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# [11:05] <philor> I'm only awake because I want to see my fourth or fifth try push of the same thing fail yet again
# [11:05] <@roc> hmm
# [11:05] <@roc> I don't understand the Android failure at all
# [11:05] <philor> skip-if(Android)
# [11:06] <philor> um, I mean, that's unfortunate
# [11:06] <@roc> scrolling made the content ... change color?
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# [11:06] <@roc> you're hugging a chunk of pure evil
# [11:07] <philor> shiny, shiny evil
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# [11:10] <philor> handy, Android native fails the same way
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# [11:12] <philor> glandium: is there even a shred of us in https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=10174540&full=1&branch=mozilla-inbound#error0 that I can hang a bug off of?
# [11:13] <philor> "Intermittent crash deep in Android while we sit around waiting for nsDirEnumeratorUnix::Init"?
# [11:13] <glandium> philor: looks like a dalvik problem.
# [11:14] <philor> "Intermittent bad choice of mobile OS to develop for"?
# [11:14] <glandium> philor: nothing really points out that we're "waiting" for nsDirEnumeratorUnix::Init
# [11:14] <Ms2ger> Nah, that's not intermittent
# [11:14] <glandium> though a crash in dalvik could also be a case of bad java code
# [11:14] <philor> yeah, it's just been the top bit of us in both of them that I've looked at
# [11:15] <glandium> on our part
# [11:15] <philor> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=10168925&full=1&branch=mozilla-inbound#error0 being today's other one
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# [11:19] * NeilAway wonders when someone will teach Preprocessor.py to include mozilla-config.h instead of passing all the #defines on the command line
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# [11:21] <glandium> NeilAway: for those defined in mozilla-config.h, they already are in $(ACDEFINES)
# [11:21] <glandium> NeilAway: the real question is where are we going to stop having to call Preprocessor.py by hand
# [11:21] <glandium> when
# [11:21] <glandium> (and yes, there's an open bug for that)
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# [11:25] <nigelb> wow, topic has srsly become shorter.
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# [11:45] <philor> sure sign of being up too late - I looked at https://tbpl.mozilla.org/ and wondered why someone manually triggered nightlies
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# [11:49] <hsivonen> roc: do MS, Apple and all the Android vendors (who expose system codecs, too) have some type of H.264 license other than the $6.5M per year?
# [11:50] <glandium> hsivonen: I'd expect MS and Apple to have a different license, considering they are part of the patent pool
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# [11:50] <hsivonen> glandium: is that allowed under RAND?
# [11:50] <glandium> or they pay the same fee, but get a part back
# [11:50] <@roc> I don't know for sure, but I think so
# [11:51] <@roc> at least, I wouldn't rely on the assumption that they are
# [11:51] <hsivonen> roc: surely whatever allows random Android vendors expose system codecs has to be available to random vendors
# [11:52] <hsivonen> glandium: I'd expect them to pay the same under the same terms as licensees and then get some money back as licensors
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# [11:52] <hsivonen> if MS and Apple had different terms in their role as licensees, that wouldn't be RAND, would it
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# [11:52] <@roc> I wouldn't rely on the assumption that the "use H.264 in my application" license is the same license as "expose H.264 in my platform for anyone to use"
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# [11:53] <hsivonen> roc: does a browser "expose H.264 in the Web platform"?
# [11:53] <@roc> arguably, but perhaps the MPEG-LA doesn't see it that way, or hasn't done so to date
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# [11:54] <hsivonen> roc: I think it would be worthwhile to find out what can and cannot be done instead of dismissing licensing hacks as not possible assuming that there aren't loopholes
# [11:54] <@roc> maybe
# [11:54] <@roc> I'm leaning towards system codecs myself
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# [11:55] <hsivonen> it seems that ISO spec licensing turning out not be be RAND is a big deal
# [11:55] <hsivonen> I'd expect MPEG-LA not to want to be considered non-RAND
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# [11:56] <hsivonen> roc: what about XP? and how do you propose desktop Linux users in the U.S. obtain system codecs?
# [11:57] <Jesse> imo the $5mil (?) cap makes it non-RAND
# [11:58] <hsivonen> Jesse: well, in general, RAND is neither reasonable nor non-discriminatory
# [11:58] <@roc> I'm not sure about XP. Perhaps mutilate Flash.
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# [11:59] <@roc> desktop Linux users can install gstreamer-plugins-bad or something. We haven't received much support for them for sticking up for free formats, and we have received a lot of people complaining that we don't just use gstreamer-plugins-bad or x264. So I don't much care.
# [12:00] <hsivonen> roc: I can sympathize with that position about Linux :-(
# [12:01] <Jesse> mpeg-la doesn't seem to care much about desktop linux either :P
# [12:02] <@roc> On WinXP, Web devs who want to support IE users need to provide Flash fallback, so we'd get that.
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# [12:03] <hsivonen> roc: I expect there to be Web devs who'll go "w00t, I'm no longer supporting IE8 or Flash" once we expose H.264 by some means on Windows 7
# [12:03] <@roc> then they're dumb
# [12:03] <hsivonen> roc: and users who encounter sites made by such authors can switch to Chrome
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# [12:03] <@roc> users on intranets often can't
# [12:04] <hsivonen> roc: authors who go "w00t, I'm no longer supporting IEx" aren't enterprise-focused
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# [12:04] <hsivonen> maybe I'm seeing too much doom and gloom and maybe we can manage without HTML5 video on XP
# [12:04] <@roc> sure, but forcing all their XP users onto Chrome is more than just "not enterprise focused"
# [12:05] <@roc> of course, if Chrome desktop follows through on dropping H.264 there is no XP issue
# [12:05] <hsivonen> roc: maybe. there are already Web apps that says Chrome and Safari only
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# [12:06] <hsivonen> roc: so I'd expect there to be a greater set of apps that'll say no IE8
# [12:06] <hsivonen> (and Firefox for XP will be ignored, because authors test on Mac or Windows 7)
# [12:07] <@roc> I don't want XP to wag this dog
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# [12:08] <hsivonen> I don't *want* that, either
# [12:09] <hsivonen> I guess I shouldn't worry too much about XP, since I can trust Asa to worry about it.
# [12:10] <@smaug> :)
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# [12:11] <nigelb> gah. The number of times I press Ctrl + Q accidentally.... :(
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# [12:17] <avih> roc: not sure I follow your suggestion.
# [12:17] <avih> and hi :)
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# [12:18] <@roc> hi!
# [12:18] <@roc> about the smoothscroll patch?
# [12:18] <avih> yes
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# [12:18] <avih> patch/ui patch
# [12:18] <NeilAway> glandium: a) sure, they're in $(ACDEFINES), but it really clogs up the output of make -n b) "by hand when" (cut off?)
# [12:19] <@roc> I'm suggesting, change the pref to 150ms for now. Then in a new bug increase the "pixels" delay to 800ms. That's a one-line patch so it doesn't matter if we have to back it out or play with different values.
# [12:20] <@roc> another idea I was thinking of was increasing the "pixels" max delay by 50ms every six weeks :-)
# [12:20] <avih> lol
# [12:20] <@roc> I'm only half-joking :-)
# [12:21] <avih> roc: the previous smoothscroll bug which you reviewed, was defined as "make firefox behave like smoothwheel". after my analysis, it came down to a patch which extends the duration and adds very slightly different edge behavior. if we now return max duration to 150ms, it essentially reverts the previous bug.
# [12:22] <avih> (leving only infrastructural changes, with identical behavior from a user perspective)
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# [12:22] <@roc> well, it's good to separate the infrastructure changes from the policy changes
# [12:22] <avih> roc: agreed
# [12:23] <avih> but that would still nullify the previous bug
# [12:23] <@roc> especially because once the infrastructure changes are locked in, you can change the policy by tweaking prefs and I don't have to be involved ;-)
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# [12:24] <avih> yes yes, i see your point here, but try to see the biger picture ;)
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# [12:24] <avih> bigger* (sucky kb)
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# [12:25] <@roc> I can't really help you reach a decision on the policy. That needs decisions from UX people.
# [12:26] <avih> so prev bug did infra + behavior changes and is resolved fixed, and current bug tries to help people revert to the common and familiar behavior. i'm open to any suggestion that would make it overall for the users, inclucing reopening the previous bug.
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# [12:27] <avih> i'm just affraid that the prev bug will backfire if we don't let people revert it, since scrolling IS central to browsing.
# [12:28] <avih> roc: re: ux ppl, yes, asked limi to have a look too.
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# [12:32] <@roc> What I would do is, rename the previous bug to "land infrastructure for flexible scroll physics", add a patch to that bug to return "pixels" max delay to 150ms, then file a new bug about extending the delay for "pixels" scrolling, and submit a patch for that and get UX sign-off on it.
# [12:33] <@roc> this doesn't resolve the big issue, but it means you're only talking about a one-line patch, and people can experiment with the settings while the big issue remains unresolved
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# [12:36] <avih> a. Is this something i can do as a "contributor" (the bugzilla mangling) and b. this still leaves the "legacy" UI issue unresolved and c. Firefox 13 and the longer durations are is sort of a feature freeze by now. So where does that put us from a practical point of view?
# [12:36] <avih> are in*
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# [12:42] <avih> gtg now. will be back a bit later.
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# [12:49] <@roc> avih: I just gave you editbugs, so you can mangle those bugs :-)
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# [12:53] <NeilAway> glandium: oh, the "when" was a correction (sorry, it looked like line wrapping here)
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# [12:57] <dao> avih: it doesn't need to be all or nothing. I've seen people say "I changed general.smoothScroll.pixels.durationMaxMS to 400, feels much more responsive". it should be possible to find a compromise here, pleasing most people.
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# [13:14] <glandium> roc: something that seems possible is to use flash as a fallback for <video>. We'd have our own .swf player, and feed flash with the h264 stream
# [13:14] <glandium> that would work for xp
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# [13:17] <Ms2ger> *_retval = nsnull;
# [13:17] <Ms2ger> ...
# [13:17] <Ms2ger> NS_ENSURE_ARG_POINTER(_retval);
# [13:17] <@smaug> !
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# [13:20] <Ms2ger> Ah, I see
# [13:20] <glandium> Ms2ger: that seems a bit late
# [13:20] <Ms2ger> jst inlined another function, and failed to realize that that check was pointless
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# [14:13] <avih> dao: hey :)
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# [14:15] <avih> dao: could you please point me to such discussion (regarding smooths scroll duration)? and also, beyond the comments which i've already made about common grounds possibly being a lose-lose situation, the longer duration is already in firefox 13...
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# [14:18] <dao> avih: mak wrote on IRC that he changed the duration to 400, iirc
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# [14:18] <dao> there was more similar chatter in mozillazine forums
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# [14:19] <mak> ah yeah, I changed it from 800 to 400 on my desktop, and that works fine for me, though it's a subjective thing
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# [14:19] <dao> sure, it's subjective, but we went from 150 to 800. maybe we can find a middle ground.
# [14:21] <Yoric> I am investigating bug 736918.
# [14:21] <Yoric> Where is the current source code for SeaMonkey?
# [14:21] <Yoric> The code I find through mxr appears old, doesn't it?
# [14:21] <mak> Yoric: you mean http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/?
# [14:21] <Yoric> Yes.
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# [14:22] <Yoric> Or maybe the layout is just different.
# [14:22] <mak> yes, it's the old cvs code I think
# [14:22] <Ms2ger> Isn't that the source from 1998?
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# [14:22] <Yoric> Some dates are recent, but I can't find toolkit/components/search, for instance.
# [14:23] <mak> Yoric: I think you want to look at comm-central suite/ ?
# [14:23] <Yoric> I don't know, I just want to solve my bug :)
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# [14:23] <Yoric> bug 736918 mentions SeaMonkey
# [14:23] <Ms2ger> Yep, comm-central is the way to go
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# [14:23] <Yoric> ok
# [14:23] <Yoric> Thanks
# [14:24] <Yoric> I thought that comm-central was Thunderbird?
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# [14:25] <mak> both
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# [14:25] <Yoric> ok
# [14:25] <Yoric> Thanks
# [14:25] * Yoric is now trying to understand how the same test can succeed with mozilla-central and fail with comm-central.
# [14:26] <NeilAway> bah, what's the point of the slow script warning if it always crashes?
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# [14:27] <Yoric> Ah, I think I got it.
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# [14:28] <Yoric> (it must be an event sent twice)
# [14:28] <Yoric> Does nsIObserverService::RemoveObserver work with nsIObservers that have been converted from JavaScript functions by xpconnect?
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# [14:30] <avih> dao: mak: as i noted on that bug, we can use shorter duration, and surely some people will like it better. however, the previous bug was to make firefox behave like smoothwheel, and SW uses relatively long durations, which many come to love. using lower duration beats its purpose a bit. and even 400ms will also annoy all those who prefer it more snappy. I'm guessing here, but the distribution here would be woth two peeks instead the normal
# [14:30] <avih> bell distribution. which is why i said middle grounds might not work. but I don't have and data to back it up beyond the feedback from my users over the years.
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# [14:30] <avih> woth=with*
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# [14:32] <mak> avih: I initially loved the idea of being able to read while scrolling with sw. though I figured out my eyes just wait for the scroll to finish before focusing text, Thus it just ends up slowing me down :(
# [14:32] <dao> avih: "behave like smoothwheel" is not an end in itself. I understand that many love it, but again, this is about finding a middle ground
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# [14:33] <Ms2ger> Yoric, I sure hope so
# [14:33] <avih> dao: if there's a middle gound, then i'm all for it. if there's a way to collect such data, maybe via some UI experiment, i'm willing to help set it up.
# [14:34] <avih> dao: but as long as we don't have such concrete data, the feedback from my users of over 10 years suggest that some absolutely love it, and some just can't stand it.
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# [14:34] <dao> case in point: 800 annoyed mak but 400 apparently doesn't
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# [14:34] <avih> very true. for him.
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# [14:34] <dao> avih: your users explicitly install your extension. this is about stock firefox where we need to find a middle ground
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# [14:35] <avih> dao: i'm bringing my feedback as an example that some HATE it..
# [14:36] <dao> right, so maybe it shouldn't be the default
# [14:36] <Yoric> Ms2ger: thanks
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# [14:36] <Ms2ger> np
# [14:37] <avih> dao: from a practical point of view, since the 800ms default has already made it into firefox 13, what do you suggest we do next?
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# [14:38] <dao> avih: firefox 13 isn't released yet. pref values in particular can be adjusted easily.
# [14:38] <avih> and also, as much as i appreciate mak's input on this, he can't represent the common user. same as i can't, and same sa you can't.
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# [14:38] <avih> the only valid mass feedback on this subject is from my users, and from yet-another-smooth-scrolling users
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# [14:39] <dao> avih: I consider input from mak and random forum users more useful. your extension user base is very much skewed
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# [14:40] <avih> dao: also, if you look at my addon on AMO, you'll see that it's being among the top-10 highesr rated for some years now. so my defaults probably aren't too bad.
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# [14:41] <mak> fwiw, we also have http://input.mozilla.com/en-US/?q=scroll&product=firefox&version=13.0a1&date_start=&;date_end=
# [14:41] <avih> dao: correct, my users are biased indeed, but not the ones who didn't like it.
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# [14:41] <dao> avih: I can only repeat myself. those users explicitly install that extension. nobody doubts that they'll prefer 800 over 400. this is about finding a middle ground for stock firefox.
# [14:42] <avih> dao: and i absolutely agree that a middle ground would be great. but how do we find it?
# [14:42] <avih> how do we create a distribution of what durations people like
# [14:42] <avih> ?
# [14:42] <Kwan> hey does anyone know when is aurora 13 getting released?
# [14:43] <avih> and not less important, how do we move forward with firefox 13 already using longer duration? literally, what's the next step?
# [14:43] <dao> avih: ideallly we'd do a representative user study. without that, (150 + 800) / 2 would be my first approximation :)
# [14:43] <mak> avih: that's a good question, I took 400 just because 800 was feeling slow, and I tried to cut it into half. Though I have no idea whether 500 or 300 would even be better
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# [14:44] <avih> dao: with your permission, i'll ignore the guestimation ;) how do we go on with a representative user study?
# [14:44] <dao> avih: you land something on mozilla-central, then you request approval to land on mozilla-aurora
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# [14:45] <avih> dao: do we have some kind of focus group to do such an experiment?
# [14:46] <dao> avih: since this is on a release train, I don't think we have time to wait for a study. so my recommendation would be to make such a guess now, be conservative when in doubt, and potentially adjust the speed later when we have good data
# [14:47] * sheeri-afk is now known as sheeri
# [14:47] <avih> dao: and what about the fact that limi already approved the longer duration to be set as default?
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# [14:47] <froydnj> Yoric: they do work with such observers, yes
# [14:47] <Yoric> Thanks.
# [14:47] <Yoric> How does this work?
# [14:48] <dao> avih: well, ask limi whether he's willing to reconsider
# [14:48] <Yoric> Does xpconnect have some magic to ensure that one function is always converted to the (physically) same nsIObserver?
# [14:48] <avih> dao: but i don't want him to reconsider. you do :)
# [14:48] <froydnj> Yoric: um, I've seen this pattern, one second
# [14:48] <avih> i want to add a "conventional behavior" checkbox :)
# [14:49] <avih> dao: fwiw, i added him on cc to this latest bug, and asked for his opinion.
# [14:49] <dao> avih: I told you why that checkbox is a poor escape. most users won't ever go to the advanced pref pane
# [14:49] <froydnj> Yoric: so you do something like addObserver(function (...) { removeObserver(arguments.callee, ...) }
# [14:50] <dao> avih: it's going to silence advanced users but doesn't make 800 a good middle ground for the rest of our users
# [14:50] <avih> dao: we've discussed it already, and i layed my reasons nicely.
# [14:50] <avih> the bottom line was
# [14:51] <avih> : innovation might need to go a bit far, and we should let users revert to the familiar behavior.
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# [14:51] <avih> however, if a user study shows a proper normal distribution of user preference, by all means i'll say take the middle.
# [14:52] * wlach|afk is now known as wlach
# [14:52] <avih> it just that currently i guess it'll have two peeks, and you guess it'll have one. that's what it comes down to, really.
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# [14:52] <dao> avih: why exactly does it need to go far in this case? labeling this innovation seems to ignore the "doesn't feel responsive" complaint
# [14:53] <avih> because it shouldn't feel responsive, it should allow reading while scrolling.
# [14:53] <dao> avih: a user study should be considered a long term option
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# [14:54] <avih> i don't mind the short term, except for a case whete this backfires.
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# [14:54] <avih> let's start the long term option. who should i approach for a user study?
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# [14:57] <dao> avih: by your "reading while scrolling" measure, 400 should still be an improvement over what we used to ship. I don't see how this would backfire
# [14:58] <dao> the long term solution doesn't replace the short term solution
# [14:58] <avih> it can backfire from those who prefer 150 and not a ms more
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# [14:58] <dao> there's no such user
# [14:59] <avih> dao: true. i don't mind if it stays 150 for now till we decide what's the best common grounds.
# [14:59] <Yoric> froydnj: Mmmhh...
# [14:59] <Yoric> I thought that |arguments.callee| was deprecated?
# [14:59] <froydnj> Yoric: I plead ignorance
# [15:00] <Yoric> Thanks
# [15:00] <froydnj> but that pattern is used all over the codebase already, so...
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# [15:00] <avih> dao: for example: http://input.mozilla.com/en-US/?q=scroll&product=firefox&version=13.0a1&date_start=&;date_end= either love it or hate it....
# [15:01] <avih> (though it would see more hate than love to me..)
# [15:01] <froydnj> Yoric: ah, disallowed in ES5 strict
# [15:02] <avih> also, there's some psychosomatic effect, as some report it takes them more scrolls to cover a specific distance, while the change doesn't touch distance at all, only duration.
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# [15:03] <dao> avih: "either love it or hate it" is overly simplistic. it's a continuum.
# [15:03] <avih> dao: i can't see many in the middle..
# [15:03] <avih> on that short list of comments
# [15:04] <Yoric> froydnj: It seems to work without that magic.
# [15:04] <dao> avih: when people are telling you it's too slow, it doesn't mean 150 is the only value that will satisfy them
# [15:04] <Yoric> (which just means that there is some other magic hidden elsewhere :) )
# [15:04] <avih> dao: true
# [15:05] <froydnj> Yoric: how does it work without the magic (what magic)?
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# [15:05] <dao> avih: and surely something like 400 will feel faster to them, make them complain less, etc.
# [15:05] <avih> dao: i don't want to continue this argument without concrete data. the data we have that currently some user love it, and some can't stand it, and MAYBE a middle ground would be better overall. but we don't know that.
# [15:05] <Yoric> froydnj: By magic, I meant |arguments.callee|. Just providing the function seems to work.
# [15:05] <mak> my feeling from the comments is also that some user associates slow scrolling with performance problems with the page, that's not a good feeling snappy-wise
# [15:05] <froydnj> Yoric: function X(...) { removeObserver(X...) } ?
# [15:05] <Yoric> froydnj: which probably means that, somewhere behind the scenes, XPConnect is caching the conversion of my function to a nsIObserver, to ensure physical equality.
# [15:05] <Yoric> yes.
# [15:06] <avih> as i said, i can live with reverting completely to 150, or to 400, or anything else. but what's i'd like best is to do a user study.
# [15:06] <froydnj> Yoric: much magic in XPConnect, yes
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# [15:07] <Yoric> Thanks for the help, froydnj, Ms2ger and mak.
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# [15:07] <dao> avih: right, just like the long term solution doesn't replace the short term solution, the short term solution doesn't replace the long term solution either
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# [15:07] <Yoric> One more question: how do I request a try run on comm-central?
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# [15:08] <avih> dao: as for short term, your guess is as good as mind, so if you and limi think 400 is better for now, sure, just change it. but the long term interests me more.
# [15:08] <dao> avih: i.e. minimizing damage short-term, looking for the ideal default setting long-term
# [15:08] <Yoric> Ah, found it.
# [15:08] <mak> Yoric: my guess https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Infrastructure/TryServer
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# [15:08] <avih> dao: for my money, best solution might be to leave it at 150. and conduct a proper user study and come out with this with concrete data.
# [15:09] <avih> i'm not anxious to get it out, i'm anxious to get it good.
# [15:09] <timeless> Oops, dismiss and disconnect are too close together on irccloud in portrait mode on my PlayBook
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# [15:10] <avih> if such study shows a normal distribution, then middle grounds it is, but if it shows two peaks, then we might need to allow both groups to have what they like.
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# [15:11] <dao> avih: I think we have data showing that most users won't change prefs
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# [15:12] <avih> dao: i would have guessed that even without concrete data :)
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# [15:12] <dao> prefs are good to prevent shitstorms in bugzilla or on tech sites
# [15:13] <dao> they are not ideal for serving our users as a whole
# [15:13] <avih> dao: agreed.
# [15:15] <avih> dao: so, let's wait to hear what limi has to say about it, and take it from there.
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# [15:15] <avih> and regardless, if you could point me to how to initiate a user study, i'd appreciate it.
# [15:16] <avih> dao: also, u should remember that firefox 13 turns smooth scrolling on by default, which isn't a minor change even if you ignore the longer durations.
# [15:17] <dao> avih: I realize that
# [15:17] <avih> which is why i'm afraid it might bring a shitstorm.
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# [15:18] <avih> which is the reason for the checkbox ;)
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# [15:19] <bwinton> avih: As someone going through a shitstorm right now, I advise you to be bold, and not add a checkbox!
# [15:19] <avih> bwinton: :)
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# [15:19] <bwinton> (Unless limi says different, of course. ;)
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# [15:20] <avih> the checkbox is not out of fear, but from understanding that this feature probably splits our users to those who love it and those who hate. i honestly understand not everyone likes it, which is why i don't want to firce them to use it.
# [15:21] <avih> bwinton: also, re shitstorm, i've got my ass covered already with my many warnings, so no fear there :P
# [15:22] <avih> i genuinely want the users to be happy more than i care of my ass
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# [15:22] <dao> I wouldn't advise you to be overly bold. the smooth scrolling change was part of the snappy project, and right now people are telling you it doesn't feel snappy. this seems questionable...
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# [15:24] <avih> dao: this shouldn't really be part of snappy, but taras happened to like it on his laptop, so he pushed it.
# [15:24] <dao> surely being bold can help you get away with it, but again this doesn't mean the current settings are the best we can do for our user base
# [15:24] <avih> (imo)
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# [15:25] <avih> dao: i absolutely agree. we know what it comes down to, and none of us can prove his case.
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# [15:25] <avih> but i do share your concern of UI inflation as a cheap replacement for thinking.
# [15:25] <avih> brb
# [15:25] <smya> Hi all, So far I have experience in fixing a small bug in Firefox. I wish to take part in Gsoc. I am familiar with C, C++ and Python. How should I proceed further
# [15:26] <Yoric> hi
# [15:26] <Yoric> smya: Do you already have a GSoC topic?
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# [15:27] <smya> I went through the ideas page page. But did not fanalize
# [15:27] <Yoric> If you like one of the ideas of that page, the best thing to do is to get in touch with the contact whose information is given on the page.
# [15:27] <Yoric> They are often on irc.
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# [15:28] <Yoric> If you have other ideas... I'm not sure, actually.
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# [15:28] <smya> ok. But I am in different time zone. So how do I contact?
# [15:29] <Yoric> Which time zone is that?
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# [15:30] <smya> I live in India. It's already night here. And am a student. So don't have much facilities to stay till late night.
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# [15:32] <smya> Anyways, thanks for the info.
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# [15:35] <Cwiiis> Is there any way to detect when document size has changed? (not window size) Could you use DOMAttrModified for that?
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# [15:36] <@bz_sleep> define "document size"?
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# [15:38] <hsivonen> interesting how bundling VC-1 with an OS is more expensive than bundling H.264 with an OS
# [15:38] <timeless> Smya : sometimes Mozilla developers are on outside of business hours
# [15:38] <hsivonen> Microsoft must be pretty unhappy that they tried the Windows Media play and lost it
# [15:38] <timeless> It depends on the individual
# [15:39] <hsivonen> I wonder how happy Blu-Ray player vendors are about the requirement to support VC-1, too
# [15:39] <smya> timeless: ok!
# [15:39] <hsivonen> does anyone actually want VC-1 anymore for anything except compat with old files?
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# [15:39] <timeless> If the ones you need to reach have incompatible schedules, then you'll want to use email
# [15:40] <timeless> But first you should figure out what topic you'd like to work on
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# [15:40] <smya> Ok. Fine.
# [15:40] <timeless> Or review whichever prerequisites Mozilla imposes for GSoC
# [15:41] <timeless> Hsivonen: economy of scale?
# [15:41] <timeless> (and hello from China )
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# [15:43] <avih> dao: summarizing current feedback for 13a regarding new scrolling: 2 very negative, 4 negative, 3 very positive, 2 indicate bug 728738 which isn't gonna land for firefox 13. fyi.
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# [15:47] <bhearsum|buildduty> are tab groups supposed to get synced?
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# [15:49] <Cwiiis> bz_sleep, the largest size out of the scroll size of the body element or the html element is how we calculate it in fennec/browser.js
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# [15:51] <Cwiiis> bz_sleep, or the compositor in fennec calculates it by looking at the FrameMetrics of the top-most scrollable layer
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# [15:54] <@bz_sleep> Cwiiis: so what you really want to get is the size of the root element's overflow area?
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# [15:54] <Cwiiis> bz_sleep, yes, that sounds right
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# [15:55] <@bz_sleep> Cwiiis: and why is max(body.scrollHeight, root.scrollHeight) not good enough?
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# [15:55] <@bz> (I mean, I can think of edge cases where it's not quite the same, but those are edge cases in which chances are whatever code you're writing is broken anyway)
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# [15:56] <Cwiiis> bz, that's pretty much what browser.js does I think? http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/mobile/android/chrome/content/browser.js#1644
# [15:56] <Cwiiis> bz, the problem isn't getting the size though, it's being informed when it changes
# [15:57] <@bz> ah
# [15:57] <@bz> yeah, we don't have a notification for that....
# [15:57] <@bz> there are bugs....
# [15:57] <Cwiiis> bz, when it changes, we need to set a new displayport, but we currently have no way of knowing that until we've drawn (when it's too late to save on redundant drawing)
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# [15:57] <Cwiiis> bz, ah, know any numbers off the top of your head? I'll search...
# [15:59] <@bz> Cwiiis: not off the top of my head
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# [16:00] <hsivonen> timeless: do you mean patents have economies of scale in the sense that the rentiers want a centain amount of money, so it's cheaper to have more payers?
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# [16:02] <jlebar> mrbkap, ping?
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# [16:03] <mrbkap> jlebar: pong
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# [16:04] <jlebar> mrbkap, Suppose I do Object.defineProperty on a DOM object (a window, or an iframe) from chrome JS. Should that defined property be visible from content?
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# [16:05] <mrbkap> jlebar: by default: no.
# [16:05] <mrbkap> jlebar: because you'll define the property on the Xray wrapper.
# [16:05] <@bz> As a separate question....
# [16:05] <jlebar> mrbkap, Aha. Is there a way to make it work?
# [16:05] <mrbkap> jlebar: if you want the property to be visible to content, you need to do the defineProperty on the .wrappedJSObject.
# [16:05] <jlebar> Yay.
# [16:05] <@bz> Should Object.defineProperty on the outer window work?
# [16:06] <mrbkap> jlebar: but it's a bit cleaner to do so on XPCNativeWrapper.unwrap(window)
# [16:06] <@bz> Or does it already?
# [16:06] <mrbkap> bz: Yes.
# [16:06] <mrbkap> bz: to both questions, hopefully.
# [16:06] <jlebar> bz, I think I was blaming inner/outer window split, but in fact the problem was these wrappers.
# [16:06] <@bz> ah, ok
# [16:06] <@bz> yeah, that would do it
# [16:06] <@bz> separation of content and chrome and all
# [16:06] <@bz> up there with content and presentation and church and state
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# [16:07] <jlebar> bz, Well, what was confusing was, the toString() methods didn't distinguish between the two objects. So I couldn't tell that there was a wrapper in the way!
# [16:07] <jlebar> mrbkap, Hooray, that works. Thanks a ton.
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# [16:08] <mrbkap> jlebar: hmm, what object did you have?
# [16:08] <AryehGregor> bz, ehsan said I should ask for L3 commit access. Will you vouch with him?
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# [16:08] <@bz> AryehGregor: yes
# [16:08] <AryehGregor> bz, okay, thanks.
# [16:08] <@bz> AryehGregor: on the contrary, thank _you_
# [16:08] <jlebar> mrbkap, A window object, which I got from the content-document-global-created observer.
# [16:08] <@bz> AryehGregor: you're the one writing patches!
# [16:08] <AryehGregor> :)
# [16:08] <AryehGregor> Well, I'm being paid, so . . .
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# [16:08] <mrbkap> jlebar: IIRC Xray wrappers add "[object XrayWrapper ...]" around the toString.
# [16:09] <mrbkap> AryehGregor: I'll make sure not to thank you, then... that'd be overcompensation :)
# [16:09] <AryehGregor> :P
# [16:09] <jlebar> mrbkap, I get, from chrome, "[object Window @ 0x2a03cc0 (native @ 0x2b4469777a68)]"
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# [16:10] <@bz> so...
# [16:10] <@bz> this may be a content-principal sandbox
# [16:10] <@bz> which would have a cross-compartment wrapper, but not an Xray
# [16:10] <@bz> maybe
# [16:10] <@bz> does that make a difference?
# [16:10] <mrbkap> bz: if .wrappedJSObject made it work, then no.
# [16:11] <mrbkap> bz: cross-compartment wrappers should be invisible.
# [16:11] <jlebar> mrbkap, XPCNativeWrapper.unwrap ?
# [16:11] <@bz> mrbkap: ok
# [16:11] <mrbkap> jlebar: that too.
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# [16:11] <mrbkap> jlebar: .wrappedJSObject on an XrayWrapper and .unwrap are equivalent.
# [16:11] <mrbkap> jlebar: I prefer .unwrap since it works even if you mistakenly pass a non-XrayWrapper.
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# [16:12] <mrbkap> gal had a fancy word for it: stratification.
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# [16:12] <mrbkap> Meta-operations on security wrappers shouldn't be mixed with operations on the self-same wrappers.
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# [16:16] <dao> avih: aurora updates aren't live yet
# [16:19] <jlebar> mrbkap, The objects I return from chrome are automatically unwrapped? So when I define the getter on the unwrapped object, I don't have to worry about unwrapping my return value?
# [16:20] <mrbkap> jlebar: correct.
# [16:20] <mrbkap> jlebar: though, what are you doing exactly?
# [16:20] <jlebar> mrbkap, I'm overriding window.{top,parent,frameElement}, for mozbrowser.
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# [16:22] <mrbkap> jlebar: Yeah, so if you're returning DOM objects, you don't have to worry about anything.
# [16:22] <mrbkap> jlebar|afk: returning non-DOM chrome objects is ... trickier.
# [16:23] <avih> dao: you mean aurora users don't have the new smooth scroll?
# [16:23] <avih> yet?
# [16:23] <dao> aurora users are on version 12 until they're updated
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# [16:24] <avih> i thought they moved to 13 at the branch las week...
# [16:24] <avih> last*
# [16:25] <avih> so it means the users feedback for now is still perliminary?
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# [16:29] <dao> avih: take a look at what http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/aurora/ offers for download
# [16:29] <dao> avih: the feedback you saw is from nightly
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# [16:34] * @khuey grumbles
# [16:34] <@khuey> who builds in the damn srcdir?
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# [16:35] <froydnj> adventurous people
# [16:35] <froydnj> it's like russian roulette building
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# [16:36] <@khuey> well it doesn't even work right now!
# [16:36] <@khuey> bsmedberg: can I resolve that bug as a feature? ;-)
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# [16:37] <@bsmedberg> khuey: not unless you actively prevent srcdir builds
# [16:37] <@bsmedberg> there's a patch somewhere
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# [16:37] <@khuey> they seem actively prevented right now :-P
# [16:37] <@khuey> but point taken
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# [16:38] <jlebar> khuey, fwiw, b2g builds in srcdir. (annoys the heck out of me)
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# [16:38] <jlebar> khuey, Oh, you mean, without objdir entirely?
# [16:39] <@khuey> yes
# [16:39] <@khuey> and b2g is just silly
# [16:39] <@khuey> somebody should fix that
# [16:39] <@khuey> somebody who won't melt when they touch git
# [16:39] <jlebar> khuey, b2g builds with an objdir, but the objdir lives inside the srcdir.
# [16:39] <@khuey> oh
# [16:39] <@khuey> that's how firefox builds by default
# [16:40] * jlebar still doesn't like it. :)
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# [16:47] <Ms2ger> khuey, thanks :)
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# [16:50] <mounir> jlebar: ping
# [16:50] <jlebar> mounir, ack
# [16:50] <mounir> jlebar: actually, I will reply in the bug (might be easier for the context)
# [16:51] <jlebar> mounir, Okay, I'll have a look once my gmail refreshes. :)
# [16:51] <mounir> jlebar: but, not related: how do you manage to reply in some many threads *and* write code? :)
# [16:51] <jlebar> mounir, Who said I write code? :)
# [16:52] <mounir> I was assuming that actually...
# [16:52] <mounir> I might be wrong :)
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# [16:52] <mounir> jlebar: commented
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# [16:57] <AryehGregor> Okay, does anyone know what the issue here is? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734953#c4
# [16:58] * AryehGregor will resubmit and see if it works
# [16:59] <@bz> AryehGregor: looks like applying the patch failed?
# [16:59] * @bz has no idea why
# [16:59] <AryehGregor> Well, yes, quite dramatically . . .
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# [17:01] <jfkthame> what's the proper way to account for nsStrings in a memory reporter?
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# [17:03] <@bz> jfkthame: for now, SizeOfIncludingThisIfUnshared or SizeOfExcludingThisIfUnshared depending on whether you already counted the this size
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# [17:03] <mcpherrin> Is there a channel around for discussion of web video stuff? On the tails of the recent h.264 discussion, I'm interested in trying to get WebM video working for some stuff I run...
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# [17:03] <jfkthame> bz: thanks - are those available for all ns*String types?
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# [17:04] * jfkthame goes to look in headers...
# [17:04] <@bz> jfkthame: yep, they're on nsTSubstring
# [17:04] <Ms2ger> jfkthame, headers? Hah
# [17:05] <Ms2ger> The only way to figure out strings is dxr :)
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# [17:07] <@smaug> Ms2ger: you have a use case for dxr o_O
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# [17:07] <Ms2ger> Yep
# [17:07] <@smaug> amazing
# [17:07] <@khuey> haha
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# [17:08] <jbuck> mcpherrin: come to #popcorn
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# [17:09] <@khuey> firebot: uuid
# [17:09] <firebot> dc126d90-0ee0-4683-b942-2fa66e443abc (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
# [17:09] * Ms2ger steals khuey's uiid
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# [17:11] * @khuey will never announce a dom bindings meeting again
# [17:11] <Ms2ger> Noooooo
# [17:11] <@khuey> and I'll start randomly changing the dialin info too
# [17:11] <Ms2ger> Always the nice guy
# [17:12] <@khuey> never claimed to be one
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# [17:14] <mrbkap> khuey: why not?
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# [17:14] <jhammel> khuey steals people's magic
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# [17:14] <@smaug> hmm, that uuid reminds me...
# [17:14] <jhammel> that particular one? ;)
# [17:14] <@smaug> http://mozilla.pettay.fi/cgi-bin/mozuuid.pl is loaded ~10000 per day. Which is kind of surprising
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# [17:15] <jdm> o.O
# [17:15] <Ms2ger> mounir, so, is your stuff on inbound going to build?
# [17:15] <Ms2ger> Oh
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# [17:16] <@smaug> Ms2ger: ahaa, you must be living in Russia or Brazil ;)
# [17:16] <mounir> Ms2ger: so, last time I tried to push it was bulding fine
# [17:16] <mounir> but I had a android ts regression
# [17:16] <mounir> so now I'm pushing likely innocent patches
# [17:16] <Ms2ger> smaug, oh, dammit!
# [17:16] <@khuey> mrbkap: as punishment for Ms2ger stealing my uuid
# [17:17] <mounir> it's quite amazing to see that the only way to find which patch was guilty is to push all of them separatly and see when the regression comes back :(
# [17:17] <mrbkap> khuey: ah, I see.
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# [17:18] <KaiRo> lol @ http://xkcd.com/1031/
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# [17:22] <Ms2ger> Oh, look at tree-mgmt
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# [17:24] <jdm> Ms2ger: that is something I don't do on principal!
# [17:24] * jdm shoves his fingers in his ears
# [17:25] <Ms2ger> principle
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# [17:25] <jdm> er, yes
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# [17:25] <jhammel> Ms2ger: you're pedantry is maddenniing
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# [17:25] <Ms2ger> ARGH
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# [17:39] <sheppy> Mozilla IRC is like watching 2nd graders performing as the Three Stooges.
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# [17:45] <sheppy> Hrm. Browsers starting to get picky about certificates is causing problems for family members using my mail server and webmail.
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# [17:45] <sheppy> Lots of ZOMG this isn't a real certificate errors.
# [17:45] <@khuey> well, that's because it's not a real certificate, no?
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# [17:46] <sheppy> Well, it's self-signed.
# [17:46] <@khuey> sounds like it's not real to me!
# [17:46] <sheppy> Chrome outright refuses to let you into sites that are self-signed.
# [17:46] <sheppy> khuey: :P
# [17:46] <@khuey> startssl used to have free SSL certs for simple use cases like that
# [17:46] <@khuey> idk if they still do that
# [17:46] <sheppy> They do… I haven't gotten around to switching over yet.
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# [17:47] <froydnj> also a problem with old wifi routers
# [17:48] <tom> sheppy: now that i am on linux, firefox crashes when editing mdn ...
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# [17:48] <sheppy> tom: well, that sucks… which version of Firefox, and doing what?
# [17:48] <tom> nightly
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# [17:48] <evilpie> ups hehe
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# [17:49] <sheppy> evilpie: I get occasional crashes in Nightly while editing too, on Mac.
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# [17:49] <evilpie> actually i thing i should look at this, looks like we do something stupid in jit code
# [17:49] <@smaug> sheppy: evilpie: bug filed?
# [17:49] <@smaug> crash id?
# [17:49] <evilpie> yeah
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# [17:49] <gcp> ehm, Chrome most certainly allows you into self-signed sites, and does so way easier than Firefox
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# [17:50] <gcp> our UX is far worse there, and completely uninformative as to what's actually happening
# [17:50] <evilpie> Bug 736830
# [17:50] <evilpie> gcp: there is a bug on it
# [17:51] <evilpie> not helping i know
# [17:51] <gcp> I know about the bug. I'm reacting to the lies that were told here.
# [17:51] <evilpie> smaug: Bug 736830
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# [17:53] * sheppy goes back to trying to figure out why this window is null.
# [17:53] <@ehsan> BenWa: ping about https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734302
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# [17:54] <evilpie> and there comes the crash
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# [18:02] <Waldo> jdm: http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/post/19508068848/maciej-on-git needs stealing
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# [18:02] <jdm> heh
# [18:02] <Waldo> jdm: not sure who the cantankerer should be, offhand
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# [18:06] <Waldo> bz: doesn't chrome sometimes sever the link as a way of getting a new page into a separate process? http://blog.chromium.org/2009/12/links-that-open-in-new-processes.html
# [18:06] <Waldo> which might not be spec'd, to be sure
# [18:06] <@bz> Waldo: it's not specced
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# [18:06] <jprmc> device copulation
# [18:06] <@bz> Waldo: and note the rel="noreferrer" opt-in
# [18:07] <Waldo> also, they misspelled noreferrer
# [18:07] <Waldo> er, noreferer
# [18:07] <jprmc> i'm filing that one away for later use
# [18:07] <@khuey> jprmc: yeah I enjoyed that
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# [18:07] <@bz> waldo: but yes, we could do something like that
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# [18:08] <Waldo> bz: unless I'm misunderstanding your comment, you were saying there wasn't a way to opt in, in browsers; I'm simply saying there is one, in at least one browser
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# [18:21] <rafaelw> smaug: ping.
# [18:22] <jprmc> KaiRo: do we have enough info in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722044 now?
# [18:22] <jprmc> (ie Scoobi's recommendation of prefix skiplist)
# [18:22] <jprmc> blassey: ^^
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# [18:24] <@smaug> rafaelw: pong
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# [18:25] <rafaelw> +
# [18:26] <rafaelw> hey. so the tree fuzzer is still failing against the nightly you sent me.
# [18:26] <nigelb> /ws 30
# [18:26] <rafaelw> unfortunately, it's doing a ton of random work so it's hard to debug exactly the case that fails.
# [18:26] <@smaug> rafaelw: I don't know what fuzzer you're talking about
# [18:26] <rafaelw> it's definately attribute related.
# [18:26] <@smaug> or, is it about the one in github test?
# [18:26] <@smaug> there was some strange google closure error too
# [18:27] <rafaelw> this is olli p, right?
# [18:27] <@smaug> yup
# [18:27] <rafaelw> swee.t
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# [18:27] <@smaug> rafaelw: I'm writing also some tests now
# [18:27] * bear-afk is now known as bear
# [18:27] <@smaug> fixing few bugs in my implementation
# [18:27] <rafaelw> http://code.google.com/p/mutation-summary/source/browse/testTreeMirror.html
# [18:27] <@smaug> so far noticed also that this handling is wrong in your implementation
# [18:28] <rafaelw> This basic creates a few random trees, only one of which is rooted at the document.
# [18:28] <@smaug> oh, I didn't try those at all
# [18:28] <@smaug> only test.html
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# [18:28] <blassey> jprmc, KaiRo: TouchBadMemory() should be treated like abort()
# [18:28] <@smaug> I'll look at testTreeMirror
# [18:28] <rafaelw> Then it makes N passes with M random mutations per pass.
# [18:28] <blassey> I really don't know enough about socorro's internals to comment beyond that
# [18:28] <rafaelw> It uses the MutationSummary to apply the changes to a copy of the tree
# [18:28] <rafaelw> And then asserts the result is equal to the mutated tree.
# [18:28] <jprmc> blassey: if you could add that into the bug, that would be good
# [18:29] <@smaug> rafaelw: yeah, I'll check that
# [18:29] <@smaug> could be some bug in my implementaion
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# [18:29] <rafaelw> It appears to be failing to remove an attribute.
# [18:29] <@smaug> or some webkit-ish
# [18:29] <@smaug> er, webkit-ism
# [18:29] <rafaelw> The interesting this is that if you stop it from making any element moves, it stops failing.
# [18:30] <rafaelw> Which makes me wonder if there's something going on with transient observation.
# [18:30] * NeilAway thwaps aaronlev (again), mano and surkov
# [18:30] <rafaelw> Also, if you stop it from removing attributes (only setting), it also stops failing.
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# [18:31] <@smaug> hmm, webkit and gecko do handle, IIRC, attribute removal differently in certain cases
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# [18:31] <rafaelw> So it's definately related to removing attributes, but it requires the tree to have also changed shape in order to fail.
# [18:31] <rafaelw> Which makes me suspect transient observation
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# [18:31] <rafaelw> Not really sure.
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# [18:32] <rafaelw> The fuzzer was really useful finding a number of bugs in our implementation. It just sucks trying to track down the bug =-(
# [18:32] <@smaug> rafaelw: I'll do that
# [18:33] <@smaug> rafaelw: thanks for telling about the problem
# [18:33] <rafaelw> Anyhow. I think about it more. I'm sure there's some way to narrow it down more. Check it out.
# [18:33] <rafaelw> Also, I sent you a note about case insensitivity.
# [18:33] <rafaelw> I can't remember whether we talked about that previously.
# [18:33] <@smaug> rafaelw: hey, btw, do you have tests for moving nodes from one document to another
# [18:33] <rafaelw> That's a good point.
# [18:33] <rafaelw> The fuzzer doesn't.
# [18:34] <rafaelw> Now that I think of it, i don't think test.html does either.
# [18:34] <@smaug> it doesn't
# [18:34] <rafaelw> Let me look and see if we have webkit layout tests for that.
# [18:34] * @bz wonders what about this profile leaks the world...
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# [18:36] <@smaug> rafaelw: so, IMO, it doesn't make sense to do case-insensitive checks
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# [18:37] <@smaug> rafaelw: since that doesn't happen with attribute names anyway in DOM. CSS is different creature
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# [18:38] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/04428a669679 - Mike Hommey - Bug 736220 - Remove previously unused and broken assert definition from logging.h. r=cjones
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# [18:42] <rafaelw> smaug: div.setAttribute('FOO', 'bar'); div.getAttribute('foo"); returns 'bar';
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# [18:42] <rafaelw> is that case insensitive?
# [18:43] <rafaelw> (in an html document)
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# [18:43] <rafaelw> s/is/isn't
# [18:43] <@smaug> rafaelw: no. When you set attribute in HTML document, the name is lowercased before setting
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# [18:43] <@smaug> per spec
# [18:43] * Waldo wonders how much http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/19498471564/i-would-do-it-if-i-had-the-time-that-means-that is his fault :-)
# [18:43] <@smaug> there is no case-insensitive comparison there
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# [18:44] <@bz> waldo: you're hardly the only one! ;)
# [18:44] <rafaelw> what are some other attribute name comparisons that are done for DOM APIs?
# [18:44] * NeilAway wonders why the string memory reporters are on nsTSubstring when you probably don't own one of those
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# [18:45] <Waldo> I feel like at least I'm trying to keep them small and grasp-able when I do that, but I could be misjudging :-)
# [18:45] <@smaug> rafaelw: attr.localName == attr.localName
# [18:45] <@smaug> attr.name == attr.name
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# [18:45] <@smaug> rafaelw: per spec MutationObserver compares names
# [18:45] <rafaelw> hmm.. i'm not married to this behavior. It was pain to implement both in webkit and in mutationsummary.
# [18:46] <rafaelw> i'm just worried it'll be surprising to developers.
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# [18:46] <@smaug> how would it surprise ?
# [18:46] <@smaug> MutationObserver is about DOM
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# [18:46] <@smaug> not about CSS
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# [18:47] <rafaelw> the behavior that setAttribute converts the attribute to lower case has the effect that html attributes *seem* case insensitive
# [18:48] <rafaelw> there's lots of HTML markup that contains mixed-case attribute names.
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# [18:49] <rafaelw> it's secondary to what the best behavior, but FWIW, in webkit we don't do a slow case-insensitive-compare during record creation.
# [18:50] <KaiRo> blassey, jprmc: thanks, I'll try to get that handled properly - without the info of which skiplist it was not really actionable for the team
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# [18:50] <@smaug> rafaelw: you filter afterwards ?
# [18:50] <rafaelw> when the filter is created, we examine each of the attributes. if any have a upper-case character, we put it into a seperate case-insensitive-filter map.
# [18:51] <rafaelw> then we check the filter during dispatch, we
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# [18:51] <rafaelw> first check the regular fiter. if it matches, continue
# [18:51] <rafaelw> if not then:
# [18:51] <@smaug> rafaelw: during dispatch?
# [18:51] <rafaelw> if the element is ht
# [18:51] <rafaelw> sorry. not dispatch
# [18:51] <@smaug> you mean when calling callback?
# [18:51] <rafaelw> mutation record enqueue.
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# [18:51] <rafaelw> (when the attribute change happens and we figure out if any observer should receive it)
# [18:52] <rafaelw> (if not then:)
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# [18:52] <rafaelw> if the element is HTML and its owner document is HTML, then check against the case-insensitive-filter map
# [18:52] <Infinity> Hi!
# [18:52] <rafaelw> so, worst case its a couple addition bit checks and then another hash lookup.
# [18:52] <Infinity> I am interested in taking part in gsoc 2012 under mozilla!
# [18:53] <rafaelw> and it assumes that the common case of attributes specified as lower-case won't take any perf hit.
# [18:53] <@smaug> rafaelw: IMO the behavior is still just wrong
# [18:53] <rafaelw> yeah. that may be.
# [18:53] <Infinity> Could you tell me whom I should contact regrding queries related to gsoc?
# [18:53] <rafaelw> adam isn't in yet.
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# [18:53] <rafaelw> i'll ask him what he thinks.
# [18:53] <rafaelw> i doesn't matter that much to me.
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# [18:54] <fabrice> Infinity: see https://wiki.mozilla.org/SummerOfCode
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# [18:54] <@smaug> rafaelw: not a huge issue to me either
# [18:54] <jdm> Infinity: regarding a particular project, the mentor or the reporter.
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# [18:54] <jdm> Infinity: regarding the process in general, potentially gerv
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# [18:55] <@smaug> rafaelw: but when designing new APIs, we have the opportunity to force web devs to do the right thing
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# [18:56] <Infinity> jdm: Could I post doubts and questions regarding the ideas in the irc or is it to be posted to only the mentors?
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# [18:56] <Infinity> Btw thanks a lot
# [18:57] <jdm> Infinity: you can try; the mentors certainly should be able to answer your questions, but people here might be able to as well
# [18:57] <Infinity> I have been to the link you mentioned....that's where I had got info about the irc channel
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# [18:58] <Infinity> I know people here can.....but my doubts might be quite trivial because this is the first time I am doing something of this sort!
# [18:58] <jdm> that's ok!
# [18:58] <Infinity> I had talked to someone named gcp here once....he helped me get a clear picture about the Networking dashboard idea for firefox....
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# [18:58] <NeilAway> who reviews changes to nsJSEnvironment.cpp ?
# [18:58] <jdm> Infinity: there's also #introduction if you want to be sure you're in an environment when "easy" questions are expected
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# [18:59] <@bz> NeilAway: any DOM peer, basically
# [18:59] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/fc8534cfca3d - Luke Wagner - Bug 736807 - InitExnPrivate needs to root values since they can now be wrapped (r=bholley)
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# [18:59] <Infinity> Oh!....that's cool....but will people there be those who know about the gsoc ideas page and all?
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# [19:00] <jdm> Infinity: there are lots of experienced mozillians who hang out in there to answer questions
# [19:00] <NeilAway> bz: does jst still do reviews?
# [19:00] <@bz> yes
# [19:01] <Infinity> That's great then....
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# [19:01] <Infinity> jdm: thanks for the help :)
# [19:01] <jdm> you're welcome!
# [19:01] <@bz> my god, pushing to try takes forever
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# [19:01] * @bz should have timed it
# [19:01] <NeilAway> bz: ok, I'll try him first, as he reviewed the buggy code in the first place
# [19:01] <@bz> NeilAway: who wrote it?
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# [19:01] <NeilAway> bz: mano
# [19:01] <Infinity> Do you know at which times this irc is most active?.....because I'm from India and there's this time difference problem most of the times...
# [19:02] <jlebar> Whoa, I got one bugmail e-mail with two comments in it.
# [19:02] <@bz> Infinity: usually most active during daytime hours Pacific time
# [19:02] <gcp> right about now it should be pretty good :)
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# [19:04] <Infinity> Nice timing I guess
# [19:04] <Infinity> Nice to hear from you gcp :)
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# [19:04] <Infinity> I have been waiting to talk to you......Wish the time difference was smaller though...its almost 12pm here
# [19:05] <mbrubeck> Yeah, the largest numbers of active people on IRC here are in North America and Europe.
# [19:05] <Infinity> Thanks for the tip bz
# [19:05] <jdm> jlebar: never seen that before?
# [19:05] <jlebar> jdm, Nope. Is bugzilla coalescing on purpose? That's far too clever.
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# [19:06] <jdm> I have no idea whether it's intentional
# [19:06] <jdm> but I see it a couple times a month
# [19:06] <mbrubeck> I've seen that before, very rarely.
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# [19:06] <Infinity> European time difference is ok.....it'll be around five to six hours I guess...
# [19:06] <jdm> I'm pretty sure I see a higher proportion of bugmail than many people, however
# [19:06] <glob> jdm, jlebar, it happens when a notification fails, so it'll coalesce multiple events into a single email
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# [19:07] <jdm> aha, that makes sense
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# [19:07] <glob> it can also happen if two events happen at the same time (during the same second)
# [19:07] <@bz> 3.641u 0.619s 5:55.23 1.1% 0+0k 3+59io 0pf+0w
# [19:07] <@bz> That's a try push
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# [19:12] <jdm> bsmedberg++
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# [19:12] <@bsmedberg> jdm: which thing?
# [19:12] <jdm> your meme that I'm approving
# [19:13] <@bsmedberg> hehe
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# [19:18] <jmaher> jlebar: ping
# [19:18] <jlebar> jmaher, ack
# [19:19] * jmaher was expecting a ping-ack before the ack
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# [19:19] <jmaher> jlebar: I could have the wrong goal for the bug about talos numbers
# [19:20] <jlebar> jmaher, okay...
# [19:20] <jmaher> jlebar: I was looking at it to solve turning the talos jobs on tbpl orange if they are outside the norm
# [19:20] <jmaher> is that the goal?
# [19:20] <jlebar> jmaher, Close...
# [19:20] <mbrubeck> hopefully "worse than the norm" (rather than "outside the norm")! :)
# [19:21] <jlebar> jmaher, The meaning of "outside the norm" needs to be able to take into account multiple runs of the test.
# [19:21] <jmaher> jlebar: and you want to compare it to the previous run?
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# [19:21] <jlebar> jmaher, I want to compare to the qparent run.
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# [19:22] <jlebar> jmaher, The way it works for dev.tree-management is, it builds two windows. One window is the test runs for the X changesets before the cset we're interested in. Another window is the test runs for the Y csets after the cset we're interested in.
# [19:23] <jlebar> jmaher, It then compares the distributions over those two sets.
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# [19:23] <jmaher> ok
# [19:23] * mak is now known as mak|afk
# [19:23] <jmaher> and you want the before range ?
# [19:24] <jlebar> jmaher, I kind of want something which looks like a dev.tree-management e-mail, which includes info about the two distributions, yes.
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# [19:26] <jlebar> jmaher, Maybe the solution is, input [cset, platform, test], output [parent distribution, cset distribution, (better, same, worse)].
# [19:26] <jmaher> jlebar: so I don't think we would be able to get that from talos as we don't have a hg tree
# [19:26] <jlebar> jmaher, Determining the qparent is tricky, though.
# [19:26] <mbrubeck> jmaher: We're seeing a frequent new robocop failure since your change landed on inbound...
# [19:27] <jmaher> mbrubeck: yeah, not perma, but close to it
# [19:27] <jmaher> mbrubeck: must be because the tests run so fast ;)
# [19:27] <jlebar> jmaher, That's why I think maybe we should input [cset, parent, platform, test].
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# [19:29] <@khuey> is hg.m.o broken?
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# [19:30] <jmaher> mbrubeck: I didn't see that failure on my try runs (4 runs) or a few runs locally
# [19:30] <jmaher> mbrubeck: but it does seem to be related to my push
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# [19:31] <mbrubeck> jmaher: I retriggered some runs to try to make sure
# [19:32] <jmaher> mbrubeck: thanks
# [19:32] <jmaher> mbrubeck: my runs were friday and saturday, then I pushed this morning- stuff could have changed since then
# [19:33] <@bz> so yeah
# [19:33] <@bz> what needs to happen for try pushes to take < 5 mins? :(
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# [19:33] <@smaug> how surprising. testing actually reveals some bugs
# [19:34] <mbrubeck> jmaher: I see the failure once in https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=d79deea9eb2c
# [19:34] <mbrubeck> (the second orange run)
# [19:34] <mbrubeck> jmaher: Can we back out the patch on inbound?
# [19:34] <jmaher> mbrubeck: oh yeah- short term memory; yeah, we can back it out
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# [19:35] <mbrubeck> jmaher: Okay, I got it.
# [19:35] <jmaher> mbrubeck: just the bug 736105 patch
# [19:35] <mbrubeck> right
# [19:35] <jmaher> the others fix another orange
# [19:35] <jmaher> thanks mbrubeck
# [19:36] <mbrubeck> np
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# [19:38] <@roc> inline autocomplete works well
# [19:38] <@roc> well done!
# [19:38] <@khuey> NeilAway: ping
# [19:38] <@bz> roc: welcome back!
# [19:38] <@bz> roc: and apologies for welcoming you with review requests. ;)
# [19:39] <@roc> :-)
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# [19:40] <@dolske> roc: enjoy it while it lasts ;) http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/19375631066
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# [19:41] <pallanikumaran> zpao: hey
# [19:41] <pallanikumaran> i am starting on bug 586067
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# [19:41] <@roc> dude, it's been on trunk for, like, days
# [19:41] <zpao> pallanikumaran: excellent :)
# [19:42] <pallanikumaran> zpao: should i read the entire nsSessionStore.js file to start with?
# [19:42] <Jesse> bz: btw should that assertion be "undisplayed content" rather than "undisplayed context"?
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# [19:43] <zpao> pallanikumaran: no need to read the whole thing unless you want to. in the bug I gave you a place to start looking - the TabSelect event
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# [19:45] <zpao> pallanikumaran: search the file for that to see what we do when we get that event. this._windows is a data structure we use to store information about windows (and within, tabs, etc.)
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# [19:46] <@bz> Jesse: er...
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# [19:46] <@bz> Jesse: perhaps
# [19:47] <@bz> Jesse: though perhaps not
# [19:47] <@bz> Jesse: since the point is that we have an undisplayed style context....
# [19:48] <saebekassebil> Guys, I'm experimenting with the new fullscreen API to implement a feature in pdf.js but I've a big problem. We use elem.scrollIntoView but it seems that this is not supported in fullscreen-mode. Nothing is scrolled even though the function is called.
# [19:48] <mbrubeck> luke: orange on m-c.
# [19:48] <saebekassebil> Help would be greatly appreciated :)
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# [19:48] <Jesse> bz: ok
# [19:48] <zpao> pallanikumaran: _collectTabData would also be good to read through to start to get an idea of how the bigger picture starts to fit together
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# [19:48] <@khuey> is there a way to see all instances of a certain flag set by a certain person?
# [19:49] <@khuey> gavin: ^?
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# [19:50] <luke> mbrubeck: blah, it is just 'gczeal' not being defined in opt builds in the test i added
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# [19:50] <@bz> saebekassebil: not supported in what sense?
# [19:50] <@bz> saebekassebil: are you scrolling something inside the fullscreen element?
# [19:51] <pallanikumaran> zpao: will do that
# [19:51] <@bz> saebekassebil: and is your fullscreen element scrollable?
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# [19:51] <luke> mbrubeck: just needs a 'if (typeof gczeal === "function")', can i rambo that in
# [19:51] <luke> ?
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# [19:52] <saebekassebil> bz: I've a div which holds a lot of "pages". These pages is scrolled into view with the scrollIntoView function. Problem is, that the "pages" *doesn't* get scrolled into view.
# [19:52] <mbrubeck> luke: Go for it; you're on the hook either way. :P
# [19:52] <luke> mbrubeck: weeee
# [19:52] * smaug is now known as smaugAway
# [19:52] <mbrubeck> This isn't inbound; this is the game!
# [19:52] <saebekassebil> bz: Yea, scrolling something inside the fullscreen element.
# [19:53] <Kwan> khuey: the custom search at the bottom of bugzillas advanced search page
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# [19:54] <jhammel> === "function" ? does js guarantee they will be the same instance?
# [19:54] <@bz> saebekassebil: ok, is your fullscreen element scrollable?
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# [19:54] <@bz> saebekassebil: or put another way... got a testcase?
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# [19:55] <saebekassebil> bz: scrollable in what sense. overflow:hidden attribute is set to hide the scrollbar
# [19:56] <@khuey> Kwan: ty
# [19:56] <nemo> huh. several IP addresses have been hitting the URL I put in that bug on image background colour all day
# [19:56] <nemo> I wonder what's going on
# [19:57] <@bz> saebekassebil: overflow:hidden counts as scrollable for this purpose
# [19:57] <nemo> the funny thing is someone is hitting it in MSIE8 :) good luck with that
# [19:57] <@bz> saebekassebil: one sec
# [19:57] <jlebar> mrbkap, Should I worry about weakmap warnings "Failed to preserve wrapper of wrapped native weak map key"?
# [19:57] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/8414a5a38e56 - Luke Wagner - Bug 736807 - Fix test added by fc8534cfca3d to test for gczeal (r=orange)
# [19:58] <luke> jhammel: that's just strict-equality, it doesn't do the wacky automatic conversions that == does
# [19:58] <mrbkap> jlebar: worry how?
# [19:58] <jlebar> mrbkap, Worry that I might get a false negative in weakmap.has() next time I look the object up?
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# [19:59] <nemo> oh. maybe it is just nosy GSoC students, not Moz people. shouldn't get my hopes up about that bug being fixed
# [19:59] <jlebar> mrbkap, Or should I unwrap the DOM objects before inserting into the weakmap?
# [19:59] <saebekassebil> bz: We don't support IE8, only reasonable HTML5 supporting browsers :)
# [19:59] <@bz> saebekassebil: hold on
# [19:59] <mrbkap> jlebar: As I understand it, you shouldn't be seeing that warning for DOM objects.
# [19:59] <mrbkap> jlebar: bholley would know more than me about this, actually.
# [20:00] <Pike> stupid mxr search :-(
# [20:00] <bholley> jlebar: talk to mccr8
# [20:00] <jlebar> lol
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# [20:00] <davidb> i think i want to use that in-browser profiler… where do i grab the latest and greatest?
# [20:01] <davidb> BenWa: ^
# [20:01] <@bz> hrm
# [20:01] <@bz> when I go fullscreen, I just get black
# [20:01] <@bz> expected?
# [20:01] * kwierso thinks jlebar needs to maintain a mapping of developers to features they are willing to talk about...
# [20:01] <BenWa> davidb: I'll show you quickly, I hate typing
# [20:01] <@bz> ah, that's the overflow:hidden
# [20:01] <evilpie> hey you need to help me figuring out some very strange problem
# [20:02] <evilpie> after some time i can't move tabs anymore, don't use context menus, awesomebar doesn't work etc.
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# [20:02] <@bz> saebekassebil: so I'd start by looking into why this testcase is not doing what it probably should: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1526610
# [20:02] <@bz> saebekassebil: in particular, not showing the text, unless I remove the overflow style
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# [20:03] <@bz> saebekassebil: since that's really what you want, right?
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# [20:04] <saebekassebil> bz: Yea, let me just try that :)
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# [20:05] <saebekassebil> bz: Nope, doesn't work here. Let me just make a test case
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# [20:06] <@bz> saebekassebil: my point is that if that rendered the text it should do what you want. But for me it doesn't render the text
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# [20:09] * kwierso wishes the <textarea>s in the feature page creation wizard weren't hard-coded to 80-columns wide...
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# [20:11] <vlad> anyone see start-msvc10.bat or similar start to crash cmd.exe since recent windows updates?
# [20:12] <vlad> does that sound like a familiar thing?
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# [20:12] <@khuey> haven't seen it here
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# [20:14] <saebekassebil> bz: I understand this is a "great" test-case, but if you've got the time, it'd be great if you'd try it out:
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# [20:14] <saebekassebil> bz: Clone https://github.com/saebekassebil/pdf.js/fullscreen and visit web/viewer.html viewing any pdf file
# [20:15] <saebekassebil> and try to click the fullscreen button, navigating with the keys.
# [20:15] <saebekassebil> bz: sorry https://github.com/saebekassebil/pdf.js/tree/fullscreen
# [20:15] <mccr8> jlebar: if you see that message, the binding you inserted will disappear.
# [20:15] <mccr8> I don't recall if it will go away immediately or only after a GC or CC or something.
# [20:15] <@bz> hmm
# [20:15] <jlebar> mccr8, :(
# [20:16] <@bz> are we in the web audio working group?
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# [20:16] <mccr8> jlebar: what kind of thing are you trying to insert? it has to support wrapper preservation.
# [20:16] <sheppy> bz: I think so… I seem to recall reading something about that.
# [20:16] <jlebar> mccr8, I think I'm getting that warning inserting a docshell from chrome JS
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# [20:16] <@khuey> uh, yeah, you definitely can't stick a docshell in a weakmap
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# [20:17] <@bz> ah, yes, good
# [20:17] <@bz> we are
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# [20:17] <jlebar> khuey, That's a bummer...
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# [20:17] <@bz> saebekassebil: the point is, the testcase I posted should do what you want
# [20:17] <@bz> saebekassebil: if it rendered the text
# [20:18] <@bz> saebekassebil: the question is why it doesn't render the text
# [20:18] <mccr8> I should probably have made the warning a little clearer.
# [20:18] <jlebar> mccr8, :)
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# [20:18] <@khuey> jlebar: if you just want weakrefs you should land the patch in 722671
# [20:18] <@khuey> jlebar: and then use Cu.getWeakReference
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# [20:19] <jlebar> khuey, Although then I have to occasionally to through and clear out the weakref objects.
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# [20:20] <@khuey> does it really matter?
# [20:20] <@khuey> those are pretty tiny
# [20:20] <@khuey> and don't entrain anything
# [20:20] <saebekassebil> bz: Well actually on my fox I'm scrolled to the "I should..." element when clicking the "scroll" span
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# [20:22] <@bz> saebekassebil: hmm, this is weird
# [20:22] <@bz> saebekassebil: I can reproduce the lack of scrolling in fullscreen if the overflow:hidden is on the fullscreen element itself
# [20:22] <@bz> saebekassebil: if I put the overflow on some child it scrolls fine...
# [20:22] <@bz> saebekassebil: which is pretty odd
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# [20:24] <@bz> Hrm
# [20:24] <saebekassebil> Hmm I've just tried applying overflow:hidden to #x, but it still works (though the screen is black and so is the text)
# [20:24] <@bz> saebekassebil: ok, so this worksforme now...
# [20:24] * @bz tries to figure out why this is different
# [20:25] <@bz> yeah, totally worksforme
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# [20:25] <@bz> one sec
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# [20:25] <saebekassebil> bz: the initial problem (pdf.js fullscreen) works in Chrome, but not in FF
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# [20:26] <@bz> saebekassebil: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1526642
# [20:26] <@bz> saebekassebil: that works for me in Firefox
# [20:26] <@bz> saebekassebil: so how does your testcase differ from that?
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# [20:30] <Standard8> anyone happen to know if we've got any tests for testing if we can connect to idn based domain names?
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# [20:31] <mrbkap> If I push a bunch of changesets and only the top one has DONTBUILD, will that successfully skip builds for all of my changesets?
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# [20:31] <saebekassebil> bz: I'm using requestFullScreen on documentElement
# [20:32] <saebekassebil> which now automatically hides overflow and scrollbar (not in Chrome but in FF)
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# [20:33] <@bz> saebekassebil: ah, so...
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# [20:33] <@bz> saebekassebil: the behavior for documentElement is probably correct
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# [20:34] <@bz> saebekassebil: what happens if you normally send the document element to be fixed pos?
# [20:34] <@bz> saebekassebil: can you scroll inside it then?
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# [20:35] * mak|afk is now known as mak
# [20:35] <firebot> Check-in:
# [20:35] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/ca1b5de7c0eb - Blake Kaplan - Bug 736196 - Fix a small bug in internal dhcp notifications (clear dhcpInfo when we don't have any). Don't write out fake passwords in our configs. Make sure that we enable networks
# [20:35] <firebot> upon creation so they're enabled in the config file. r=cjones
# [20:35] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/c22568c8cf0e - Blake Kaplan - Bug 736087 - Remove the ns prefix from the WifiWorker component. r=philikon DONTBUILD
# [20:35] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/350ed35543d2 - Blake Kaplan - Bug 736087 - Rename nsDOMWifiManager to DOMWifiManager. r=philikon
# [20:36] <saebekassebil> bz: nope?
# [20:36] <@bz> saebekassebil: that's all fullscreen does
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# [20:36] <@bz> saebekassebil: makes the fullscreen element position:fixed and sized to the screen
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# [20:37] <saebekassebil> Ah, so scrollIntoView doesn't work inside a fixed positioned element?
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# [20:44] <dholbert> bz, ping?
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# [20:44] <Amnesia> hi
# [20:45] <Amnesia> I'm getting a compilation error when I'm trying to compile ff 11.0 using gcc 4.4.5
# [20:45] <Amnesia> ../../../dist/include/nsCOMPtr.h:316: internal compiler error: in tree_nrv, at tree-nrv.c:143
# [20:45] <Amnesia> ( it's ff 11.0 )
# [20:45] <dholbert> Amnesia, "internal compiler error" sounds like a GCC bug
# [20:45] <Amnesia> should I try another gcc version
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# [20:45] <Amnesia> yep, was thinking to change compiler yes..
# [20:45] <Amnesia> ff 11 < worked fine though
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# [20:47] <@bz> sure
# [20:47] <dholbert> Amnesia, might be worth filing a bug, but that sounds like a GCC bug (which apparently is fixed in newer GCC releases since other people aren't hitting it), so I wouldn't count on it being a priority
# [20:47] <Amnesia> hm well yep, I indeed think it's a gcc bug
# [20:47] <Amnesia> ugh, I've got a love/hate relationship with debian:P
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# [20:49] <saebekassebil> bz: What would you suggest if I can't use scrollIntoView()?
# [20:50] <@bz> saebekassebil: not fullscreening the root element?
# [20:50] <@bz> saebekassebil: if you're looking for a fix on your end
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# [20:52] <dholbert> bz, when you get a chance, css3-flexbox question for you:
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# [20:53] <@bz> dholbert: now is good
# [20:53] * @bz is waiting on try push
# [20:53] <dholbert> bz, so I haven't spent much time on _inline_ flexbox (display: -moz-inline-flexbox) up until now, but I'm now checking to be sure it works -- it looks like things work out if I just put the flexbox inline & non-inline NS_STYLE_DISPLAY enums in IsDisplayTypeInlineOutside() vs. IsBlockOutside(), and otherwise treat them the same. Does that make sense? (Is there anywhere else I should be distinguishing between them?)
# [20:53] * @bz has no idea
# [20:53] <@bz> how are they supposed to differ in behavior?
# [20:53] <dholbert> bz, ok :)
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# [20:54] <dholbert> bz, just block-level vs. inline-level
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# [20:54] <dholbert> bz, like inline-table vs table, inline-box vs box, inline-block vs block, etc
# [20:54] <@bz> yeah, just IsBlockOutside and IsDisplayTypeInlineOutside
# [20:54] <@bz> are the things that should need changing
# [20:54] <dholbert> awesome
# [20:55] <dholbert> local testing seems to agree; thanks for the sanity-chekc
# [20:55] <dholbert> *chekc
# [20:55] <dholbert> *check
# [20:55] <dholbert> [left hand, slow down with your typing]
# [20:55] <@bz> Actually, one more thing
# [20:56] <dholbert> yup?
# [20:56] * @bz is thinking
# [20:56] <@bz> ah, no
# [20:56] <@bz> this is an atomic inline
# [20:56] <@bz> so doesn't need to have the lineparticipant bit
# [20:56] <@bz> good
# [20:56] <dholbert> cool
# [20:56] <dholbert> yup
# [20:56] <saebekassebil> bz: Right, but the same thing is happening when i request fullscreen at the container div
# [20:56] <@bz> saebekassebil: does my testcase work for you?
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# [20:57] <saebekassebil> bz: yes.
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# [20:57] <@bz> saebekassebil: ok, so why doesn't yours?
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# [20:58] <@bz> saebekassebil: figuring that out seems like the next order of business
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# [21:02] <NeilAway> khuey: pong, if it's really really quick
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# [21:04] <saebekassebil> bz: Well yes, but my setup is quite like yours. divs inside a root div which is requested to get fullscreen
# [21:04] <NeilAway> khuey: pong timed out :-(
# [21:04] <@bz> saebekassebil: my testcase does NOT request fullscreen on the root element
# [21:05] <@bz> saebekassebil: again, if yours does you probably want to request on some other element instead
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# [21:07] <saebekassebil> bz: You example requests fullscreen on the parent element, which is what I meant with "root div", sorry for being incorrect.
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# [21:12] <mbrubeck> glandium, luke: Don't forget to star your oranges on m-c...
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# [21:12] <hub> I see a meme here :-)
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# [21:14] <@bz> saebekassebil: ok, so how do the two testcases differ?
# [21:14] <@bz> saebekassebil: sounds like you need to figure that out
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# [21:18] <@khuey> NeilAway: I figured it out
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# [21:25] <jduell> zpao: ping
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# [21:25] <zpao> jduell: hey
# [21:25] <jduell> zpao: quick question about new session restore behavior
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# [21:25] <jduell> we used to restore with a flag that forced whatever was in cache to be displayed, right?
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# [21:26] <jduell> zpao: but now it looks like when you click on a tab and we restore it, we do a regular load--intentional?
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# [21:26] <jduell> It's slower, but also more up-to-date.
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# [21:26] <zpao> we haven't changed anything there afaik. i thinkwe'll still load from cache if available
# [21:27] <zpao> could be your pages aren't in the cache anymore (or force no-cache)
# [21:28] <jduell> zpao: ok, just wanted to make sure. My other session restore bug seems to have been a mirage--just closed it.
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# [21:28] <zpao> yea, i saw. thanks for following up
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# [21:31] <@bsmedberg> dbaron: do you want to review infallible strings, or is there somebody else we should ask to help peer the string code?
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# [21:32] <@dbaron> bsmedberg, hmmm. In a meeting right now. Getting someone else to review may be a good idea, though I might want to glance at what's happening...
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# [21:34] <bent> blegh, anyone remember the syntax to make a reference to a const char* []?
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# [21:36] <@bsmedberg> bent: a reference?
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# [21:36] * @bsmedberg feels like a pointer would be better
# [21:36] <mwu> bent: http://www.cdecl.org/ ?
# [21:37] * @bsmedberg nominates jlebar|away to do the infallible string reviews
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# [21:52] <nattofriends> that reminds me, I wonder if anyone here would appreciate something I made yesterday
# [21:52] <nattofriends> http://slush.warosu.org/c++filtjs/
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# [21:59] <bent> aha, for those curious,
# [21:59] <bent> const char* array[10];
# [21:59] <bent> const char* (&array_ref)[10] = array;
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# [22:01] <@khuey> god just killed a kitten
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# [22:01] <qDot> D:
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# [22:09] <jdm> nattofriends: ooh, that's pleasant
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# [22:27] <jduell> anyone know how to grab the build for an inbound push from ftp.mozilla.org? I see only timestamps(?) at https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/tinderbox-builds/mozilla-inbound-linux-debug/, not revision #s
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# [22:29] <philor> jduell: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&;rev=, open the full log, that has a "download raw log" or some such phrase link in it, copy that, edit out the log filename, you've got the path to the build
# [22:29] <philor> it ain't pretty, but it works
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# [22:32] <NeilAway> khuey: oh, anything interesting?
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# [22:32] <@khuey> NeilAway: turns out do_QueryObject doesn't work on nsImageLoadingContent
# [22:32] <@khuey> NeilAway: because nsImageLoadingContent doesn't actually implement QI :-P
# [22:33] <NeilAway> khuey: ah, yes, the workaround is to redeclare QI as virtual = 0, to fool the compiler
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# [22:33] <@khuey> ah
# [22:33] <@khuey> nice
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# [22:33] <jduell> philor: aha--thanks!
# [22:34] <NeilAway> khuey: because, after all, if your class inherits 10 identical pure virtual methods, it has no idea which one you want to call...
# [22:34] <@khuey> yep
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# [22:35] <jduell> philor: to run xpcshell tests on build node, do I need both firefox-14.0a1.en-US.linux-i686.tar.bz2 and the tests.zip file?
# [22:35] * NeilAway thinks that's a lame limitation of C++, especially when they are all pure, but even when one isn't you still have to put a using statement in even though there is only one that you can be using...)
# [22:35] <NeilAway> s/)//
# [22:35] <philor> jduell: yes, and then a log of an xpcshell run, to see what commandline to roughly imitate
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# [22:36] <jduell> philor: mmmK
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# [22:48] <kwierso> last official day of winter; we get a thunderstorm.
# [22:48] <kwierso> well played, iowa...
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# [22:51] <@smaug> kwierso: last official day of winter? you have such thing?
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# [22:51] <jwir3> smaug: Yeah, in the U.S. March 20th is the first official day of spring
# [22:51] * @smaug checks the map to see where Iowa is
# [22:52] <@khuey> heh
# [22:52] <jwir3> hah
# [22:52] <Waldo> smack in the middle
# [22:52] <jwir3> we're getting thunderstorms here in Minnesota, too
# [22:52] * Waldo thought seasonal boundaries were a well-established international thingamabob
# [22:52] <jwir3> that's really bizarre
# [22:52] <jwir3> climate change for the win
# [22:53] * jwir3 will soon have oceanfront property in the twin cities. All is according to plan.
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# [22:53] <Ms2ger> bz, ~10 minutes, last time I timed pushing to try
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# [22:55] <hub> we got snow in Vancouver this morning
# [22:55] <hub> while Toronto and Montreal have +20C temps
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# [23:00] * Ms2ger saw mike5w3c commit "9eb77c782c91 Added "referrer" meta name. b=915" and was confused why he was working on <col align>
# [23:01] <mcsmurf> the famous bug!
# [23:01] <Ms2ger> No kidding
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# [23:04] <jwir3> is tbpl down, or is something wrong with my connection?
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# [23:07] <nthomas> wfm
# [23:08] <hub> I did a hg pull on both inbound and central, and I can't figure out which head it is and how to hg update to one of the two
# [23:08] <hub> :-/
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# [23:08] <jwir3> nthomas: oh, now it's working. must have been a local hiccup
# [23:09] * NeilAway notices Ratty fall into sicking's "trap" ;-)
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# [23:11] <Ms2ger> NeilAway, which one now?
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# [23:13] <@bz> hub: are you trying to merge the two?
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# [23:14] <hub> bz: no I am not
# [23:14] <hub> I usually work on inbound and I mistakenly pulled central
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# [23:14] <hub> then now hg out m-i show stuff that shouldn't be
# [23:14] <hub> :-/
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# [23:15] <philor> sounds like you just became an inbound sheriff!
# [23:15] <@bz> hub: so hg strip it?
# [23:15] <philor> hg strip --no-backup 'roots(outgoing())'
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# [23:16] <Ms2ger> Note that that will also strip your own work
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# [23:16] <@bz> well
# [23:16] <@khuey> good thing strip makes backups!
# [23:16] <@khuey> oh wait :-P
# [23:16] <@bz> depends on what the goal is
# [23:16] <@bz> if you were working on inbound
# [23:16] <philor> your own work ought to be in your own mq
# [23:16] <hub> good call
# [23:16] <@bz> and just pulled central
# [23:16] <@bz> and all your work is on the inbound side
# [23:16] <hub> bz: seems to do it
# [23:16] <@bz> then stripping the central changesets will lose nothing of value
# [23:17] <hub> I strip to most recent changeset listed by hg out
# [23:17] <hub> and they are all gone
# [23:17] <hub> (which is good)
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# [23:19] <Ms2ger> sicking, I don't remember the details... I think it was something like ctx.{ draw(foo); stroke(bar); }, and it came from tc39
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# [23:20] <sicking> Ms2ger: hmm.. ok. You should put that in the bug
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# [23:20] <sicking> Ms2ger: This is the only thing that Visual Basic got right and Brendan got wrong that I know of
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# [23:21] <Ms2ger> Ugh, VB
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# [23:21] <sicking> Ms2ger: in VB you'd do |with (ctx) { .draw(foo); .stroke(bar); }|
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# [23:21] <@khuey> haha
# [23:22] <Mook_as> sadly, that's kinda incompatible with automatic semicolon insertion
# [23:22] <sicking> that simple dot solves all problems that JS-with has
# [23:22] <sicking> Mook_as: oh?
# [23:22] <mcsmurf> VB is cool ;)
# [23:22] <mcsmurf> at least the .net versions are ok
# [23:22] <Mook_as> with (x) { Components.classes["foo"] \n .createInstance(Ci.bar) }
# [23:22] <@khuey> Mook_as: automatic semicolon insertion is another thing VB got right ;-)
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# [23:23] <Mook_as> khuey: I agree, sort of - VB got the whole line continuation thing wrong, IMHO, I like semicolons :D
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# [23:26] <Ms2ger> NeilAway, btw, I would remove nsIMutationObserver2 instead :)
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# [23:27] <Ms2ger> (And that patch is in sicking's review queue)
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# [23:28] <@khuey> jesup: next week!
# [23:28] <@khuey> fml
# [23:28] <@smaug> Ms2ger: naming will be fun... nsIMutationObserver, nsIDOMMutationObserver, nsDOMMutationObserver...
# [23:28] <Ms2ger> mozilla::dom::MutationObserver ;)
# [23:28] <@bz> yeah
# [23:28] <@smaug> bah
# [23:28] <@smaug> well, perhaps
# [23:28] <@smaug> I don't really care
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# [23:31] <jesup> khuey: Yeah. No pressure on us. :-)
# [23:31] <@khuey> srsly
# [23:31] * jesup turns into a pumpkin - see people around 10pm EDT-ish I hope
# [23:31] * Ms2ger carves a Halloween pumpkin hea... Eek
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# [23:36] <JonathanS> Mozilla has bend over to MPEG-LA for H.264?
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# [23:39] <sstangl> JonathanS: Is there a better way to phrase that?
# [23:39] <jhammel> srsly
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# [23:40] <@bz> sstangl: not given that he's a troll in general, no
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# [23:41] <JonathanS> sstangl, if MoFo has to paid licensing fee to MPEG-LA for H.264 or just use system codec. Either way, XP will be left out
# [23:41] <@bz> uh
# [23:41] <@bz> if we pay a license fee
# [23:41] <@bz> that will be precisely so XP is not left out
# [23:41] <@bz> no?
# [23:41] * @bz lets self be trolled
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# [23:41] * jhammel also hasn't heard a good solution to the problem
# [23:41] <jhammel> nor can i think of one :(
# [23:42] <JonathanS> bz, how you can find h.264 codec that work in XP?
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# [23:42] <@bz> JonathanS: well, if we license it we would just ship one
# [23:42] <sstangl> JonathanS: there is a very long thread in dev.platform about this, addressing XP issues specifically. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/mozilla.dev.platform/h264/mozilla.dev.platform/-xTei5rYThU/Kw12wnrIDsUJ
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# [23:42] <@bz> JonathanS: but yes, go read the existing discussion, please
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# [23:43] <sstangl> jhammel: the thread was originally for video decoding on phones, on which h.264 decoding hardware exists, and it would be extremely silly to not utilize it
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# [23:43] <JonathanS> bz, okay, let me read first before I get more highlight.
# [23:43] <@bz> JonathanS: good plan
# [23:43] <jhammel> sstangl: i've read the thread and see both sides of the issue
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# [23:44] <jhammel> i just object to the "bent over to MPEG-LA", since i think that's an unfair characterization of Mozilla's position
# [23:44] <bent> s/bent/bend/
# [23:44] <bent> thx
# [23:44] <bent> :)
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# [23:45] <jhammel> bent: sorry ;)
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# [23:47] <@khuey> I like how running reftest tells me to make mochitest-plain-rerun-failures to try again
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# [23:51] <Boriss> ddahl: is what enigmail's doing in thunderbird relevant to your stuff?
# [23:52] <jhammel> khuey: its our way of fucking with you ;)
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# [23:52] <ddahl> Boriss: it is an example of a use case that DOMCrypt could provide
# [23:52] <Boriss> sweet, thanks
# [23:53] <avih> tn: hey :) could you please respond to comment 22 on the 400m scroll bug? (here is ok too)
# [23:54] <avih> tn: also, yes, only mouse wheel change was the original plan, and i still stays the plan.
# [23:54] <avih> it*
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# [23:55] <tn> avih, i think we should only reopen 206438 if we back it out, otherwise we should file new bugs to fix remaining isseus
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# [23:55] <tn> avih, if there isn't currently a way to tell mouse wheel events apart, we could add one
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# [23:56] <avih> tn: like by adding another arg: origin, and move it along from the event handler onward?
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# [23:57] <avih> (that's the reasonable way i can see now, unless u know of a better one with less modifications)
# [23:58] <@smaug> tn: what wheel events?
# [23:58] <avih> smaug: yes
# [23:58] <@smaug> tn: note, masayuki is implementing DOM 3 wheel events
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# [23:59] <avih> smaug: and while we're identifying wheel events, i think we might s well identify the rest too (page up/dows, different scrollbars triggers, etc)
# [23:59] <tn> smaug, avih's sooth scrolling algorithm wants to be able to tell scroll commands caused by wheel events apart when they get to the scroll frame
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# Session Close: Tue Mar 20 00:00:00 2012

The end :)