/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-03-22 / end

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# Session Start: Thu Mar 22 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
# [00:00] <loadbang> frustrating, especially when you have to copy almost 1TB of data on a daily basis.
# [00:01] <@smaug> also, OSX tends to almost halt itself when doing heavy IO
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# [00:02] <loadbang> bug 439908?
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# [00:03] <loadbang> oh for goodness sake
# [00:03] <loadbang> wrong bugzilla
# [00:03] <jhammel> "Help comes up in the wrong language (Italian instead of English)"?
# [00:03] <jhammel> heh
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# [00:20] <mbrubeck> time to back out ehsan...
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# [00:21] <philor> but it's such a *nice* shade of red
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# [00:21] <darktrojan> #c00?
# [00:21] <philor> and red builds run no tests...
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# [00:21] <darktrojan> and no tests running = no tests failing = WOO won!
# [00:22] <mbrubeck> philor: Surprised you haven't responded to the "make XUL Fennec tier-2" thread on m.d.p.mobile yet. :)
# [00:22] * darktrojan runs up a Mission Accomplished banner
# [00:22] <gavin> hrm, is my m.d.p.m filter broken?
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# [00:23] <gavin> last message march 16th...
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# [00:29] <mbrubeck> gavin: Yeah, there are definitely new messages since then.
# [00:29] <mbrubeck> I'm reading it via news.mozilla.org
# [00:29] <gavin> I see the new messages on google groups, but I didn't get them via email
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# [00:31] <philor> oh, my daughters... what's worse, Android test failures or reading yet another newsgroup?
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# [00:31] <darktrojan> read ALL the newsgroups
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# [00:32] * Mook_as doesn't understand the dilemma between two "redirect to /dev/null" options
# [00:32] <philor> I did, however, read bugmail during lunch about adding three more platforms, which filled me with the greatest of excitement
# [00:32] <@roc> what platforms?
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# [00:33] <philor> I mean, given the way we've done absolutely, positively nothing about OS X 10.7 since October, we'll surely be hitting Win8 Win8 Metro and Win Mobile like a ton of oh hey a squirrel!
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# [00:34] <philor> and b2g, coming to a linux64 build row near you soon
# [00:35] <philor> and then we'll want to run tests on it, coming to a row of its own eventually
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# [00:35] <darktrojan> looks like you can keep those remaining trophies, dolske
# [00:36] <philor> so tell me we're dropping the platform I'm using at the time, I'll cheer you on
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# [00:36] <jgilbert> did anyone else even get a trophy?
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# [00:36] <darktrojan> 1 has been claimed
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# [00:36] <darktrojan> no winners since december
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# [00:37] <@dolske> jgilbert: nope, just you. although gavin got a suspiciously-similar looking one recently to mark his 5 years with MoCo. :)
# [00:38] <jgilbert> \o/
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# [00:40] <Kwan> dao: hey, re bug 737792, any preference for patch splitting? at the moment I've got changes split based on how simple the changes are
# [00:41] <dao> Kwan: just as you like
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# [00:42] <Kwan> cool. Also reguarding
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# [00:42] <smontagu> roc: ping
# [00:43] <@roc> hi
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# [00:43] <Kwan> dao: regarding the forEach() ones, are they likely to all be fine for changing or is that where it's going to need more considering?
# [00:43] <smontagu> hi. did you overlook my review request for the test in bug 726460
# [00:43] <smontagu> ?
# [00:43] <smontagu> other than that, your response speed was stunning :)
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# [00:44] <@roc> yes
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# [00:45] <dao> Kwan: I'd probably leave http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.js#102 alone, for instance
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# [00:46] * smontagu wants to be as responsive as roc to review requests when he grows up
# [00:46] <@roc> you probably want to do better reviews than me though
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# [00:47] <dao> Kwan: also http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.js#3838
# [00:48] <Kwan> dao: ah first one's like like http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.js#1063 definitely not touching that
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# [00:48] <Kwan> but as long as they make sense it should be fine? no chance of for of being worse performance wise then?
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# [00:49] <dao> Kwan: yes
# [00:49] <_masterofhats> how can I run a debug build from tinderbox under gdb on MacOS? Is there any better way to get a stack trace?
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# [00:50] <@smaug> jimm: could that be just ::generic_
# [00:50] <jimm> sure
# [00:50] <Kwan> dao: other question was about http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.js#4562 and #6791, worth taking the check inside so it can be changed or leaving as is?
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# [00:50] <jimm> smaug: would you prefer that?
# [00:50] <@smaug> jimm:
# [00:50] <@smaug> yes
# [00:51] <@smaug> r+ with that
# [00:51] <@smaug> jimm: hey, could you also add some comment why that is done
# [00:51] <@smaug> in the atom list
# [00:51] <jimm> sure, I'll switch it out and post another patch
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# [00:52] <jimm> smaug: thx for the quick review!
# [00:52] <dao> Kwan: I'd change them. #6791 can just return false instead of setting reallyClose
# [00:53] <@smaug> jimm: not that you asked me to review :p
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# [00:56] <jimm> smaug: I'm never sure who to ask in content, so glad you stepped in.
# [00:57] <@roc> WINDOWS SLOW
# [00:57] <@roc> PLEASE SEND HELP
# [00:57] <@bz> roc: penguins en route
# [00:58] <@roc> the spirit of Shaver compels me to reject penguin help
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# [01:00] <@roc> in detail, an hg pull is thrashing my disk and causing pretty much every other application to suck mud, despite have 2.5GB RAM free
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# [01:01] * Jesse wonders if git would be better or worse
# [01:01] <WeirdAl> ramdisk? :p
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# [01:02] * @dolske dispatches an iShackleton to rescue roc. :)
# [01:02] <WeirdAl> ssd drive?
# [01:02] <bkero> tmpfs sucka
# [01:02] <@roc> yes, unfortunately keeping my source trees in ramdisk has some drawbacks
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# [01:03] <bkero> just rsync it to disk occasionally :)
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# [01:05] <GPHemsley> gavin: ping
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# [01:05] <AryehGregor> mbrubeck, yes, sorry about that. https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/3b06cfee48cd should have fixed it.
# [01:05] <markh> sandbox/security question: We've code in an extension that creates a sandbox and does evalInSandbox() on some "untrusted" code and that code creates a function. Is it "safe" for the extension code to then do sanbox.callThatFunction()?
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# [01:05] <AryehGregor> Oh, drat.
# [01:06] <AryehGregor> It just became an unexpected pass in that build . . .
# [01:06] <AryehGregor> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&rev=3b06cfee48cd
# [01:06] <markh> alternatively, is there a better place to ask? :)
# [01:06] <AryehGregor> mbrubeck, but yes, it was definitely my change (adding waitForExplicitFinish) that caused it to become more permanent orange.
# [01:06] <mbrubeck> AryehGregor: hmm
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# [01:07] <mbrubeck> AryehGregor: Yeah, looks like it'll be an intermittent unexpected-pass now
# [01:07] <mbrubeck> which is better than a permanent unexpected-fail
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# [01:12] <Jesse> markh: i'm curious about that kind of thing too. (bholley, mrbkap?)
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# [01:16] <Sirisian> wait is Olli Pettay here? Is that roc? Online his nick says it's smaug.
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# [01:16] <AryehGregor> Olli Pettay is smaug. He's not currently around, it seems. roc is Robert O'Callahan.
# [01:17] <Sirisian> Any DOM event people here atm?
# [01:17] <Sirisian> or web-apps?
# [01:17] <AryehGregor> Maybe best to just ask your question, and someone might be able to answer it.
# [01:17] * AutomatedTester is now known as zz_AutomatedTester
# [01:17] <AryehGregor> If no one does, you can always repeat it later when more people are around.
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# [01:17] <Sirisian> I was wondering if the developers of firefox implement the DOM 3 Event specification and if so do they use the editor draft or the stable draft
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# [01:18] <Pike> njn: re l10n nightlies bustage, maybe try to get a loaner slave from releng? I wouldn't really know what to do and how to reliably test or what's failing in fact
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# [01:18] <AryehGregor> Firefox's events implementation predates DOM 3 Event by probably more than a decade. When they need to refer to a spec, hopefully they only look at editors' drafts.
# [01:18] <AryehGregor> DOM 3 Events is the latest AFAIK, except for the stuff where DOM4 competes with it.
# [01:19] <Callek> njn: the issue is that l10n repack builds *do not* use mozconfigs
# [01:19] <Sirisian> I recently got an addition to the editor draft after 2 years and was wondering if it's bad form to submit bugs asking them to update things to reflect recent changes.
# [01:19] <AryehGregor> Probably in those cases Gecko would follow DOM4 instead, but who knows.
# [01:19] <Callek> and the mozconfigs is what sets the gcc ver/binary to use
# [01:19] <bholley> Jesse: hm?
# [01:19] <AryehGregor> No, not bad form at all.
# [01:19] <njn> Callek: my understanding is that they use GCC 4.1
# [01:19] <Callek> njn: yea 4.1 should be it, iirc
# [01:19] <AryehGregor> Make sure you explain what other browsers do and why it's a good thing, though, in addition to pointing to the spec.
# [01:19] <njn> Callek: and I specified a warning option that 4.1 doesn't handle
# [01:19] <Callek> njn: exactly and because of that the repacks fail
# [01:20] <AryehGregor> It could be the response will be that the spec should change back, if the Mozilla developers disagree with the spec editor (someone from MS, right?).
# [01:20] <Sirisian> >_> yes
# [01:20] <Callek> njn: because repacks build libmar for update stuff.
# [01:20] <AryehGregor> Yeah, it's mostly Travis Leithead, I think.
# [01:20] <AryehGregor> He's been resolving a bunch of bugs lately.
# [01:20] <AryehGregor> Anyway, what bug were you thinking of?
# [01:20] <Callek> njn: an *ideal* situation would be for nightly repacks, across all branches, to be *able* to use a mozconfig, so we can specify the same gcc we use for the rest of the build
# [01:21] <Callek> but unfortunately thats not part of the codepaths right now
# [01:21] <Jesse> bholley: see markh's question
# [01:21] <Sirisian> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8406 <-- AryehGregor
# [01:21] <markh> let me re-ask :)
# [01:21] <markh> sandbox/security question: We've code in an extension that creates a sandbox and does evalInSandbox() on some "untrusted" code and that code creates a function. Is it "safe" for the extension code to then do sanbox.callThatFunction()?
# [01:21] <njn> Callek: checking if -Wno-overlength-strings is supported is easy, we already check several other options
# [01:21] <Sirisian> Removes the need for the non-standard contextmenu event. (or at least I think it's non-standard)
# [01:21] <AryehGregor> Oh, mouse events.
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# [01:22] <AryehGregor> Mouse and keyboard events are incredibly evil. Nobody agrees on anything and the standards are probably all broken.
# [01:22] <Callek> njn: yea, I have no problem if we check if "these args are supported" and don't use them if not, but I have no idea how build peers feel
# [01:22] <Sirisian> AryehGregor, I got them to add buttons. :)
# [01:22] <Sirisian> no one implements it :'(
# [01:22] <njn> Callek: the patch got r+ from khuey
# [01:22] <markh> the fact the call is made makes me think it is OK, and all my tests show the code doesn't get chrome privs when calling the function
# [01:22] <Callek> njn: my largest concern is that "we don't leave l10n repacks busted for days"
# [01:22] <AryehGregor> Well, you can try filing a bug. Feel free.
# [01:22] <Callek> njn: ooo a fix patch got r+?
# [01:22] * Callek missed that
# [01:22] * bholley thinks
# [01:22] <njn> Callek: no
# [01:22] <markh> but I'm also getting assertions about "*** Compartment mismatch 070B0788 vs. 036FD210" and trying to work out if they are related.
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# [01:22] <njn> Callek: I'll probably back it out shortly
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# [01:23] <Callek> njn: ahh ok, yea I just don't want to see them broken for days :_)
# [01:23] <Sirisian> AryehGregor, also I got them to add pointer lock as a spec. Then got chrome and firefox to implement it. You just have to keep prodding them and spam things for support. :)
# [01:23] <bholley> markh: you have to watch out - if you pass in any object at all, the sandboxed code can get access to your global
# [01:23] <Callek> s/_/-/
# [01:23] <njn> Callek: then I guess I'll fix the -Wno-overlength-strings thing, and then reland soon and cross my fingers
# [01:23] <AryehGregor> Sure.
# [01:23] <njn> Callek: and then I'll never touch the warning options again
# [01:24] <Callek> njn: hehe, hopefully in the future we'll be a *bit* more sane across stuff that warning options won't break arbitrary things
# [01:24] <markh> bholley: we are passing a json serialized string in and never using the result of the call
# [01:24] <Callek> or at least be catched as breaking them much sooner
# [01:24] <njn> Callek: modifying the build system is a nightmare
# [01:24] <bholley> markh: you pass the string to the function?
# [01:24] <Callek> njn: tell me about it :-) [I'm a comm- build system peer]
# [01:24] <markh> yeah
# [01:25] <bholley> markh: then it can get ahold of your global
# [01:25] <bholley> markh: though, it will probably be COW-wrapped
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# [01:25] * bholley checks
# [01:25] <markh> bholley: for my education, how would it get that access?
# [01:26] <bholley> markh: very cleverly
# [01:26] <bholley> markh: all roads lead to the global
# [01:26] <markh> :)
# [01:26] <bholley> markh: there's crazy stuff with call and apply and |this|
# [01:26] <bholley> markh: hold on, I need to talk to someone - I'll finish answering your question in 5 min
# [01:26] <markh> awesome, thanks
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# [01:34] <Kwan> dao: ah your comment reminded me, I meant to ask about situations like that. There's another at http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.js#6223
# [01:34] <Kwan> dao: shall I just pull in any like that?
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# [01:45] <bholley> markh: yeah, I think it should be ok
# [01:45] <markh> bholley: great, thanks very much
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# [01:46] <bholley> markh: assuming you give the sandbox a non-chrome principal
# [01:46] <bholley> markh: are you passing wantXrays=false?
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# [01:46] <markh> bholley: nope, explicitly passing true even though IIUC that is the default
# [01:47] <bholley> markh: hm, are you using .wrappedJSObject when reaching into the sandbox?
# [01:47] <markh> nope
# [01:47] <bholley> markh: and you see the function?
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# [01:47] <markh> yeah
# [01:47] <markh> and it gets called fine
# [01:47] <bholley> markh: uh, hm
# [01:48] <markh> actually, I'm doing: let sandbox = new Cu.Sandbox(workerWindow, {sandboxPrototype: workerWindow, wantXrays: true});
# [01:48] <markh> where "workerWindow" is an iframe in the hiddenDOMWindow
# [01:48] <markh> actually, iframe.contentWindow
# [01:48] <markh> and I think that construct is causing the "component mismatch" assertions I'm seeing
# [01:49] <bholley> markh: you mean compartment mismatch?
# [01:49] <markh> oops, yeah
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# [01:49] <bholley> markh: yeah, those are bad
# [01:49] <markh> my "is it safe" question was as much about that mismatch as chrome escalations
# [01:50] <bholley> markh: so, I'm confused because you really shouldn't be able to see the function that the content defines
# [01:50] <bholley> markh: what is the principal of workerWindow?
# [01:50] <markh> the full sample I'm working from is at http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1530176
# [01:51] <bholley> markh: also, if you can trigger a compartment mismatch from JS, it's a bug
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# [01:52] <markh> as that sample stands, line 57 is making the call into the function. It triggers a "###!!! ASSERTION: This is unsafe! Fix the caller!: 'Error', file o:/src/mm/mozilla-hg/mozilla-central/content/events/src/nsEventDispatcher.cpp, line 558"
# [01:52] <markh> I haven't managed to get it to trigger the compartment mismatch yet - but our real code on which the sample is based does.
# [01:52] <markh> in the FileReader onload event
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# [01:53] <bholley> markh: so, is the hidden dom window a content window?
# [01:53] <bholley> markh: because if it isn't, your sandbox has system principal
# [01:54] <markh> good question :)
# [01:54] <dholbert> mats, btw, I'm not making that nsPlaceholderFrame::IsFrameOfType(eLineParticipant) tweak after all
# [01:54] <mixedpuppy> hiddenDomWindow is a xul window, hidden of course
# [01:55] <bholley> markh: ^^
# [01:55] <bholley> markh: so there you go - your sandbox has system principal
# [01:55] <bholley> markh: it doesn't matter whether you call functions in it or not - you're 0wned
# [01:55] <bholley> ;-)
# [01:55] <@dolske> jgilbert / fryn: https://developer.mozilla.org/media/uploads/demos/b/o/boblemarin/ae113b18ab7bf8a52635831a36dbc7c8/the-box_1332239429_demo_package/index.html
# [01:55] <markh> the sandbox can't hit any attributes of Components, for example.
# [01:55] <mixedpuppy> bholley: if the iframe has type=content, is it still system principle for content loaded into it?
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# [01:56] <dholbert> mats, it failed an assertion -- https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=10256179&tree=Try -- basically, XUL assumes that it has no inline children at that spot in frame-construction (by checking "AnyItemsNeedBlockParent")
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# [01:56] * mixedpuppy reading back...
# [01:56] <bholley> mixedpuppy: hm, I'm not sure
# [01:56] <bholley> mixedpuppy: I'm pretty sure we don't support content xul anymore though
# [01:56] <dholbert> mats, so I'm just using a special-case for placeholders in the new flexbox code for now, with a note to consider making placeholders legitimately inline-level later on
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# [01:57] <bholley> mixedpuppy: ie, unprivileged xul
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# [01:57] <markh> we actually borrowed this technique from jetpack
# [01:58] <bholley> markh: well, jetpack does it with a nearby content window, right?
# [01:58] <bholley> markh: not a xul window
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# [01:58] <mats> dholbert: ok, thanks for sharing the results
# [01:59] <markh> from that same hidden DOM window - but that might only be for things in panels etc where the code is trusted.
# [01:59] <dholbert> mats, sure
# [01:59] <gavin> GPHemsley: pong
# [01:59] <mixedpuppy> bholley: we're not loading xul into the iframe
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# [01:59] <bholley> mixedpuppy: I thought you said it was a xul window
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# [02:00] <gavin> GPHemsley: I am aware that I've been neglecting your review request, sorry about that :(
# [02:00] <mixedpuppy> we add the iframe to the hiddenDOMWindow dom, setting type=content
# [02:00] <mixedpuppy> we load remote content into the iframe, and we are injecting code into it using sandbox
# [02:01] * nthomas|away is now known as nthomas
# [02:01] <bholley> mixedpuppy: injecting in what sense?
# [02:01] <markh> and FWIW, if the code evald in the sandbox attempts to reference Components.classes, we get: Error: Permission denied for <resource://gre-resources> to get property XPCComponents.classes
# [02:01] <mixedpuppy> bholley: evalInSandbox
# [02:02] <markh> and occasionally sandbox.importFunction
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# [02:02] <bholley> mixedpuppy: ok, so you're evaluating code in the sandbox - how does it get from there to the remote content?
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# [02:03] <bholley> markh: hm
# [02:03] <mixedpuppy> the principle used in creating the sandbox is the iframe.contentWindow
# [02:03] <bholley> mixedpuppy: it still gets its own global, though
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# [02:04] <mixedpuppy> bholley: markh has a simplifed version of what we do at http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1530176
# [02:04] <markh> and we set the sandboxPrototype option to that contentWindow too
# [02:04] <bholley> mixedpuppy: so the sandbox doesn't see the stuff from the content window and vice versa unless you do something clever
# [02:04] <bholley> markh: ah, I see
# [02:04] <bholley> oh sandboxprototype
# [02:04] <bholley> how I hate you
# [02:04] <markh> :)
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# [02:04] <bholley> it's currently broken, btw
# [02:05] <bholley> in case that explains anything you're seeing
# [02:05] <markh> as we are discovering :)
# [02:05] <bholley> markh: 726949
# [02:05] <bholley> (bug)
# [02:06] <markh> interesting...
# [02:06] <bholley> though if other people are using it too, we probably need a systemic fix rather than just fixing web console...
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# [02:06] <markh> what we are actually trying to do is implement a kind of "shared worker" concept where the worker has access to things like WebSockets, FileReaders, etc
# [02:06] <markh> a dedicated worker is close, but no web sockets etc
# [02:07] <markh> and shared workers seem a while away
# [02:07] <markh> (as does WebSockets in the dedicated worker)
# [02:07] <markh> so maybe we need to step back and rethink this a little...
# [02:07] <mixedpuppy> or understand how to get the sandbox "right"
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# [02:08] <markh> sure
# [02:09] <cers> I have an example page that crashes (or at least hangs seemingly indefinitely) Firefox if firebug is open (and script tab enabled) - now, I'm assuming this is technically a firebug bug, but it shouldn't be able to crash Firefox, should it?
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# [02:09] <bholley> cers: firebug can easily crash firefox
# [02:09] <bholley> cers: it's got it's tentacles deep inside gecko ;-)
# [02:10] <mixedpuppy> bholley, markh: would the 'with (window)' suggestion work for us?
# [02:10] <mixedpuppy> oh, I should finish reading the bug
# [02:10] <mixedpuppy> :(
# [02:10] <cers> bholley: surely, unless it's using binary components (and possibly even then) - that's just highligthing a bug in firefox, isn't it?
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# [02:12] <bholley> cers: maybe, but we don't assume the consumers of our internal interfaces are adversarial
# [02:12] <bholley> cers: like, I'm sure there are a million nsIFoo methods where you could pass null pointers and get them to be dereferenced
# [02:12] <cers> bholley: right, so at least initially, I should poke firebug people about it
# [02:12] <bholley> cers: yeah
# [02:12] <bholley> cers: but really, script debugging with firebug is sort of a dead end
# [02:13] <bholley> cers: the API it uses is decrepit and will die soon
# [02:13] <cers> bholley: I don't use firebug anymore actually, (haven't for a long time) - was just helping a user who claimed a short piece of js could crash Firefox
# [02:13] <bholley> cers: the new built-in script debugger will be ready in a few months
# [02:13] <cers> bholley: turned out to be firebug causing it
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# [02:14] <bholley> cers: thanks goodness!
# [02:14] <cers> bholley: here's the test I set up http://users.skumleren.net/cers/test/mrjones.html
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# [02:14] <bholley> cers: yeah, hits the recursion limit
# [02:15] <bholley> cers: I'm sure the JSD debugging hooks kill that somehow
# [02:15] <cers> bholley: sounds plausible
# [02:15] <bholley> cers: :-)
# [02:16] <bholley> mixedpuppy, markh: you'll still need to give the code a reference to window, somehow
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# [02:16] <bholley> er, give the sandbox a reference to window
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# [02:17] <bholley> mixedpuppy, markh: we really need a story for sandboxPrototype though. It would suck to rip out something people were using...
# [02:17] * bholley wishes there were more hours in his workday
# [02:18] <markh> bholley: we don't actually need the window object, just things like WebSocket, FileReader etc.
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# [02:18] <Mossop> Uhh yeah please don't remove sandboxPrototype :s
# [02:18] <markh> so I wonder if we can "steal" then and inject via importFunction
# [02:18] <bholley> Mossop: it's broken right now!
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# [02:18] <Mossop> bholley: Just in your patch right? Not for reals
# [02:18] <bholley> Mossop: no, for reals
# [02:18] <mixedpuppy> well, we're wanting to imitate what a worker has, so we do need a window object, just not necessarily the one from content
# [02:18] <Mossop> Err really? Since when?
# [02:19] <markh> mixedpuppy: workers don't have a window object iiuc
# [02:19] <bholley> Mossop: bug 726949
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# [02:19] <bholley> markh: yeah, they've got some funny worker global
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# [02:19] <mixedpuppy> markh: mdn documents that they do, just very limited api
# [02:19] <markh> (but the spec doesn't call for them to have a FileReader either)
# [02:19] <mixedpuppy> not that mdn is right all the time
# [02:19] <markh> w3c doesn't, and the dedicated worker doesn't have one
# [02:20] <markh> it has a "navigator", but no window
# [02:20] <mixedpuppy> markh: right, it has some global functions similar to window
# [02:20] <markh> yeah
# [02:20] <markh> but a limited and specific set
# [02:20] <Mossop> Urk. I'll wait for the bug reports for my extension then
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# [02:20] <bholley> Mossop: I guess we should probably save it
# [02:20] <Jesse> dougt: i don't know why tinderbox hasn't noticed this yet, but https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738102
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# [02:21] <mixedpuppy> markh: we could actually do the same pretty easily
# [02:21] <bholley> Mossop: there's not a clear route of how to do that though
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# [02:21] <mixedpuppy> and not use window as the prototype
# [02:21] <markh> mixedpuppy: that is what we *were* doing :)
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# [02:21] <mixedpuppy> when?
# [02:21] <markh> but yeah, let's reinvestigate that
# [02:22] <bholley> Mossop: do you use the window for sandboxPrototype?
# [02:22] <markh> mixedpuppy: way back when the "let workerAPI" block was needed. It now still exists but isn't necessary (ie, we now work fine with that code removed)
# [02:22] <Mossop> bholley: A chrome window, yes
# [02:22] <markh> ie, before we added sandboxPrototype
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# [02:32] <RyanVM> philor: not sure what to call this one - https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=10259798&tree=Mozilla-Inbound
# [02:32] <jesup> Got a problem with packaging... I'm getting this when I run from an unpacked copy of FF I built (using "./firefox -profilemanager -no-remote"): Error: Platform version '10.0.1' is not compatible with minVersion >= 14.0a1 maxVersion <= 14.0a1
# [02:32] <jesup> any ideas?
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# [02:33] <Mossop> jesup: Sounds sort of like your build was running in an old obj-dir and failed halfway through. What does application.ini and platform.ini look like?
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# [02:36] <jesup> Mossop: both say 14.0a1
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# [02:36] <Mossop> Odd, sure you're running the right firefox binary?
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# [02:41] <jesup> ./firefox in the dir should do it
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# [02:44] * smontagu has a wtf moment
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# [02:46] <smontagu> in http://www.unicode.org/Public/security/beta/xidmodifications.txt, '0', '3', '6', '8', '9', 'A', 'D', and 'F' are listed as restricted limited-use
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# [02:46] <smontagu> which means "Characters whose status is uncertain, or that are used in limited environments"
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# [02:50] <@bz> bholley: ping?
# [02:50] <bholley> bz: hi
# [02:51] <Jesse> smontagu: limited to languages where those aren't homoglyphs for more common characters? seems reasonable to me.
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# [02:51] <smontagu> Jesse: ASCII characters?
# [02:53] <Jesse> smontagu: sure, in a TLD that's intended for russian names, you don't want someone tossing in a latin 'a' to spoof a cyrillic 'a'
# [02:53] <Jesse> allowing that would be just as bad as letting someone register a variant of paypal.com with a cyrillic 'a'
# [02:53] <smontagu> Jesse: so why A and not C and P and all the other latin characters that are confusable with cyrillic?
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# [02:54] <smontagu> Jesse: there are supposed to be mixed script checks for things like that
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# [02:54] <Jesse> hmm, and why only capital A
# [02:54] <Jesse> ok in that case i'm stumped too :P
# [02:54] <smontagu> characters defined as limited are not supposed to be used in identifiers at all
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# [02:56] <@bz> bholley: want to talk about sandboxPrototype?
# [02:56] <bholley> bz: yes, lets
# [02:56] <bholley> let
# [02:56] <bholley> s
# [02:56] <bholley> 's
# [02:56] <bholley> whatever
# [02:56] <@bz> bholley: so the issue is that people hand us a window
# [02:57] <RyanVM> when landing on aurora/beta, is it customary to change the target milestone accordingly?
# [02:57] <@bz> bholley: and then want its properties to appear on their global scope chain
# [02:57] <@bz> bholley: and to work when called?
# [02:57] <@bz> bholley: or is there more to this?
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# [02:58] <@bz> bholley: and we implemented this by setting the window to be the sandbox's proto and then depending on xpconnect to make that work
# [02:58] <bholley> bz: right
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# [02:59] * @bz thinks
# [02:59] <@bz> and we want the sandbox object to be a global
# [02:59] <@bz> in the sense that its parent is null
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# [02:59] <@bz> so don't want to set its parent to the window, say
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# [03:00] <bholley> bz: right
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# [03:01] <bholley> bz: also, would any sort of prototype setup work, given that we're now cross-compartment?
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# [03:03] <bholley> bz: I think this probably has to somehow work as a resolve hook on the sandbox global
# [03:03] <@bz> bholley: yes, that's what I was thinking
# [03:03] <@bz> bholley: depending on what we want to do, we have two options
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# [03:03] <@bz> bholley: if we want to allow the gsp and such to work, we need a resolve hook
# [03:04] <@bz> bholley: if we just want the xpconnect stuff to work, we just need to grab all the stuff from the window's proto chain
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# [03:04] <@bz> and stick wrappers around it on the sandbox itself
# [03:04] <@bz> I think that might work
# [03:04] <@bz> because the gsp might work with just the window being on the proto chain, maybe
# [03:04] <@bz> (worth testing)
# [03:04] * @bz would kinda like to avoid the resolve business)
# [03:04] <@bz> There is another option
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# [03:04] <@bz> which is that we make the proto of the sandbox object a proxy
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# [03:05] <@bz> which just looks up the corresponding thing on the relevant window
# [03:05] <@bz> this would have the benefit of not really needing a resolve hook and the ensuing "properties not going away when they should" business
# [03:05] <@bz> but involves writing a proxy
# [03:05] <bholley> bz: that's semantically correct, sure. But the whole problem is that dom methods don't work that way anymore
# [03:06] <@bz> don't work which way?
# [03:06] <@bz> and which approach are we talking about now?
# [03:06] <@bz> the proxy approach?
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# [03:06] <bholley> bz: yes
# [03:06] <@bz> ok
# [03:06] <@bz> so say you have a proxy
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# [03:06] <@bz> it's the proto of the sandbox
# [03:07] <@bz> say someone does a get on it
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# [03:07] <@bz> the proxy gets the id being gotten (the property name)
# [03:07] <@bz> it turns around and gets the property with that name off the window
# [03:07] <@bz> this should work so far
# [03:07] <@bz> right?
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# [03:07] <bholley> bz: indeed
# [03:07] <@bz> for property getters/setters that's all we need
# [03:08] <@bz> for methods, we end up with a method that expects to be called with the window as the "this" object
# [03:08] <@bz> right?
# [03:08] <bholley> bz: yeah
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# [03:08] * coop|afk is now known as coop
# [03:08] <bholley> bz: so we rebind?
# [03:08] <@bz> yep
# [03:08] <Jesse> josh: anything i can suggest for geoff that's more useful than "try bisecting nightlies"? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738109
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# [03:08] <@bz> imho that's the path of least resistance
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# [03:08] <bholley> bz: agreed
# [03:08] <@bz> some weirdness if you then try to .call or .apply that method
# [03:09] <@bz> but imho that's likely to be ... rare
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# [03:09] <@bz> this feels oddly like freshman year in college... ;)
# [03:09] <bholley> bz: so we basically just wrap it in a JSNative that ignores the |this| parameter an uses a closure? Or does spidermonkey have some mechanism for this
# [03:10] <@bz> spidermonkey has a mechanism for this
# [03:10] <Mossop> Extensions never do weird stuff like that...
# [03:10] <@bz> the one that Function.prototype.bind uses
# [03:10] <@bz> Mossop: getting a method off a window inside a sandbox and trying to apply it to some other window? ;)
# [03:10] <@bz> Mossop: I would argue it's a rare case
# [03:11] <@bz> bholley: dunno what the jsapi for it is, but we can add one if there isn't one
# [03:11] <bholley> bz: ok, sure
# [03:11] <bholley> bz: so next question
# [03:11] <bholley> bz: schedule
# [03:11] <Mossop> bz: Yeah. I do have an extension that gets a method and uses apply for the window it got it from, but it sounds like that should still be fine
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# [03:11] <bholley> bz: we probably can't do this on aurora
# [03:11] <@bz> Mossop: yes, that would work
# [03:11] <@bz> bholley: yeah
# [03:11] <@bz> bholley: I think we should back out the original fix on aurora
# [03:11] <bholley> bz: ok
# [03:12] <bholley> bz: then, resources - who's going to do this fix?
# [03:12] <@bz> bholley: good question
# [03:12] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
# [03:12] <@bz> bholley: I'm hearing a "bz" here...
# [03:12] <@bz> bholley: I'll take a look tomorrow
# [03:12] <bholley> bz: it's up my alley, but I'm gunning full throttle to finish cpg
# [03:12] <@bz> bholley: yeah
# [03:12] <@bz> bholley: I've been in the sandbox code before
# [03:12] <@bz> bholley: I can take a look at this, at least
# [03:12] * bholley imagines bz playing in a sandbox
# [03:13] <Mossop> A more common thing might be replacing a method on window with something from the sandbox, will that be a problem with this?
# [03:13] <bholley> Mossop: nope, shadowing is fine
# [03:13] <@bz> mossop: that should still work
# [03:13] <Mossop> Excellent
# [03:13] <bholley> Mossop: the issue is that the dom methods themselves that live on the window don't take kindly to being called on something other than what they expected
# [03:13] * Mossop nods
# [03:14] <Jesse> bholley: i'm excited about cpg :) it's going to make about:memory awesome
# [03:14] <bholley> Jesse: \o/
# [03:14] <bholley> Jesse: trying to get it done this quarter, but it will be done soon regardless
# [03:14] * nthomas|away is now known as nthomas
# [03:15] <Jesse> quarter deadlines are so pre-rapid-release
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# [03:18] <Mossop> Who maintains mxr these days?
# [03:19] <Mossop> Oh, nevermind
# [03:19] <philor> RyanVM: if you didn't already call it something, bug 681861 - pretty sure the Python error came from trying to ask the Tegra something when it wasn't actually there to ask
# [03:19] <philor> Mossop: there was someone in IT who was sort of something and something and then time passed
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# [03:21] <RyanVM> philor: it's baaaaaack! https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=10261368&tree=Mozilla-Inbound
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# [03:21] <philor> never really left
# [03:22] <nattokirai> hmm
# [03:22] <nattokirai> any hg whiz kids?
# [03:22] <nattokirai> "abort: cannot refresh immutable revision"
# [03:22] <philor> oh, it left for four days, 4th through the 9th
# [03:22] <nattokirai> what the heck does that mean?!?
# [03:23] <philor> nattokirai: aren't you glad you updated hg?
# [03:23] <nattokirai> oh fuck me...
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# [03:23] <philor> it means you pushed to try with 2.something, and the solution is on the wiki
# [03:23] <nattokirai> oh, yes, that must be it
# [03:23] <nattokirai> philor: thanks!
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# [03:24] <philor> nattokirai: https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseEngineering/TryServer#hg_phases
# [03:24] <nattokirai> yup
# [03:25] <nattokirai> life is all good
# [03:25] <RyanVM> philor: so, new bug or re-open (and change subject) of the old one?
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# [03:25] <RyanVM> hrm...to land pdf.js before bed or not...
# [03:25] <philor> RyanVM: I already starred it with the new bug I cloned on the 9th
# [03:26] <RyanVM> ok
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# [03:26] <philor> 734554, but it's there at the bottom of the old one if autocomplete gives you the old one
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# [03:29] <Kwan> question about bzexport: when it requests review does it do it in some magical e-mail-only way that doesn't set the flag on the patch,
# [03:29] <Kwan> or it is supposed to set the flag and it's just broken for me
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# [03:55] <GPHemsley> gavin: K, just checking in. :)
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# [03:59] <Jesse> yury: what happens to users (like me) who installed the pdf.js extension before https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714712 landed?
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# [03:59] <yury> they continue using old add-on
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# [04:06] <jesup> Mossop: ping
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# [04:06] <Mossop> jesup: pong
# [04:07] <jesup> I'm back; had to deal with kids
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# [04:07] <jesup> So, it's definitely loading my build (ran it under strace)
# [04:07] <jesup> and both .ini's say 14.0a1
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# [04:08] <jesup> (though I noted the strace didn't show it opening either one)
# [04:08] <jesup> any suggestions?
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# [04:09] <jesup> Whoa. Why is it opening /usr/lib64/xulrunner-2/libxul.so?
# [04:10] <Mossop> ooh
# [04:10] <jesup> ANd long after it opened the correct libxul
# [04:10] <jesup> that *can't* be right
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# [04:11] <Mossop> No. I do recall something odd about library loading like this. Do you have an LD_LIBRARY_PATH set in your environment?
# [04:11] <jesup> nope
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# [04:12] <jesup> Aha..... I build with --enable-jprof. And it's failing to load jprof (probably not in the package lists)
# [04:12] <jesup> I starts loading the wrong libxul after failing to open libjprof.so
# [04:12] <jesup> s /I/It/
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# [04:13] <jesup> That's got to be it. System loader probably says "can't load this libxul, keep looking for one that loads"
# [04:13] * jesup is guessing, but it seems plausible
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# [04:17] <Mossop> That does sound plausible
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# [04:18] <jesup> Yup. Dropped libjprof.so into the dir and no problem
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# [04:18] <Mossop> The perils of system xulrunners
# [04:19] * jesup goes to file a bug on himself to include libjprof.so in packages if it's enabled
# [04:19] <jesup> or maybe just let it fold into libxul
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# [04:28] <@bz> what's the optimal way to get from SFO to around the SF office?
# [04:28] <@bz> BART to Embarcadero is about a 30-minute trip, right?
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# [04:30] <dholbert> That sounds about right. Yeah, BART takes you closest (and IIRC the work week hotel is very close to that BART)
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# [04:31] <@bz> yeah
# [04:31] <@bz> I'm actually interested in getting to the hotel, not the office. ;)
# [04:31] * @bz guesses that taxi might actually take longer to get to a downtown location like that...
# [04:31] <cjones> optimal along which axes?
# [04:31] <@khuey> bart to embarcardero is correct
# [04:32] <@khuey> the hotel is right next to the station
# [04:32] <cjones> and what time of day
# [04:32] <cjones> and what day
# [04:32] <@bz> optimal along the minimal time axis, on a Sunday, probably starting at the airport around 8:45pm
# [04:32] <cjones> cab, for sure
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# [04:33] <@khuey> hmm, the trains don't run that often that late
# [04:33] <@bz> every 20 mins
# [04:33] <@bz> My plane is scheduled at 8:20
# [04:33] <@bz> so I can probably catch the 9:07
# [04:34] <@bz> Probably not the 8:47, given past experience with SFO
# [04:34] <@bz> fwiw, on a Sunday the trains never run more than every 20 mins through airport
# [04:34] <@khuey> ah
# [04:34] <Mossop> I wouldn't expect a cab to be any faster than BART, you just might be waiting longer for BART than a cab. And really given my experiences with cabs I'd prefer BART anytime
# [04:34] <@bz> s/more/more often than/
# [04:35] <@khuey> I don't usually ride bart, so I don't know things like that
# [04:35] * coop is now known as coop|away
# [04:35] <@bz> I don't either, but the web provideth timetables
# [04:35] <@bz> ;)
# [04:35] <@khuey> oh, bart has timetables?
# [04:35] <@bz> bart does have the benefit that I can just read on the train
# [04:35] <biesi> cabs are faster
# [04:35] <@khuey> i don't think muni even pretends to have timetables
# [04:35] <@bz> which is always a pain in a cab
# [04:35] <@bz> khuey: bart is pretty good about hitting the timetable, in my experience
# [04:35] <@khuey> if muni does have a timetable they certainly don't follow it
# [04:35] <biesi> probably by ~10 minutes, not counting waiting for bart
# [04:36] <@bz> khuey: means they wait for it sometimes, which is annoying for those on the train. ;)
# [04:36] <@bz> alright
# [04:36] <@bz> the other question is what food availability is like in that area at say 10pm
# [04:36] <@bz> on a Sunday
# [04:36] <biesi> well, there's a denny's around mission & 1st ;)
# [04:37] <@khuey> not great
# [04:37] <@bz> biesi: I said food!
# [04:37] <@bz> khuey: :(
# [04:37] <@bz> alright, thanks
# [04:38] <@khuey> bz: though, some of the stuff in embarcadero center might be open weekends
# [04:38] * @bz wonders about this Ozumo place
# [04:38] <@bz> and how expensive it really is
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# [04:39] <@bz> expensive-ish
# [04:39] <@khuey> the identity people ate there tonight
# [04:39] <@khuey> so they could tell you
# [04:39] <@khuey> I know the thai place in embarcadero center is open on sunday nights
# [04:40] <@khuey> some of the other stuff probably is too
# [04:40] <@bz> ooh
# [04:40] * @bz loves thai
# [04:40] <@khuey> bz: http://www.oshathai.com/4/index.html
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# [04:42] <@bz> oh, that's right next to the hotel
# [04:42] <@khuey> yep
# [04:42] <@khuey> the hotel is 5 embarcadero center
# [04:43] <@khuey> and there's lots of restaurants in the other 4 buildings of embarcadero center
# [04:43] <@bz> yeah
# [04:43] <@bz> ok, great
# [04:43] <@khuey> a lot of them are closed on weekends though
# [04:43] <@bz> right
# [04:43] <@bz> but this one is not
# [04:43] <@bz> so that's good enough
# [04:43] <@bz> assuming I'm hungry then
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# [04:44] <@bz> thanks, all!
# [04:45] * @bz goes back to pushing some stuff
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# [05:56] <@khuey> woah
# [05:56] <@khuey> pdf.js landed?
# [05:57] <njn> I want to backout my patch from bug 711895 but it's a bit tricky
# [05:57] <njn> I need to do a merge and resolve a conflict and I don't want to screw it up...
# [05:57] * edransch is now known as edransch-zzz
# [05:58] <kwierso> khuey: do you know if we have to disable/remove the extension version?
# [05:58] <kwierso> or does the landed version just override that?
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# [06:01] <njn> is "merge" an acceptable log message? i.e. will the auto-checker reject it?
# [06:02] <philor> it's acceptable if it really is a merge
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# [06:02] <@khuey> kwierso: I have no idea
# [06:02] * philor has been rejected for lying about merges
# [06:02] <njn> philor: I'm pretty sure it's a real merge, but I'm also afraid of screwing up the tree
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# [06:03] <njn> philor: what happens if someone lands a patch in the meantime? Do I merge again?
# [06:03] <Jesse> if it has two parents, it's a merge
# [06:04] <philor> and if you lose the push race, yeah, you merge again
# [06:04] <njn> awesome
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# [06:04] * njn is going to totally screw this up, he can feel it in his bones
# [06:04] <@dolske> a little fear is healthy
# [06:04] <@khuey> oh man
# [06:04] <philor> eh, the last screwed up tricky backout I did, I only got yelled at for about six weeks
# [06:05] <@khuey> there's a thread about sexism in the tech industry on hacker news
# [06:05] <@khuey> this should be good
# [06:05] * @khuey gets some popcorn
# [06:05] <philor> what could go wrong there?
# [06:05] <philor> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686084#c967
# [06:05] <@khuey> itym "what won't go wrong there?"
# [06:05] * philor feels less alone
# [06:05] <njn> philor: does http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1530726 look reasonable?
# [06:06] <philor> khuey: njn asked you a question
# [06:06] <@khuey> lol
# [06:06] <@dolske> hmm. I think I should send philor one of these little trophies every time he breaks the 1000 comment mark in a bug
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# [06:07] <njn> khuey: apparently I asked you a question. Or maybe Jesse
# [06:07] <@khuey> njn: I think it's fine
# [06:07] <njn> khuey: k, thanks
# [06:07] * philor puts up a new shelf
# [06:07] <kwierso> time to start up the "buy philor some more walls" fund?
# [06:07] * njn pulls the trigger
# [06:08] <philor> that one's already going, for all the holes I've punched in the ones I've got
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# [06:11] <philor> nice, after three solid days the rain quieted down - turns out it's because now it's snowing instead
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# [06:25] <@bz> pdf.js what?
# [06:26] <@bz> wow
# [06:26] <@bz> indeed
# [06:26] * @bz shuld try this out!
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# [06:26] <@bz> er, should
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# [06:30] <jdm> pdf.js makes me so happy
# [06:30] <jdm> on a regular basis
# [06:31] <@bz> no hourlies with that change yet?
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# [06:31] <philor> njn: you should actually be able to repro that l10n bustage on try by just picking the right ancient GCC in the mozconfig, no?
# [06:31] <@bz> at least on Mac
# [06:32] <philor> the debug Mac build is finished
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# [06:33] <vivek1729> GSOC 2012 need help!
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# [06:33] * vivek1729 was kicked by khuey (quit spamming)
# [06:35] * @bz is not sure about testing perf in a debug build....
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# [06:35] <@bz> khuey: er?
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# [06:35] <@khuey> probably won't end very well
# [06:35] * kwierso_ is now known as kwierso
# [06:35] <@khuey> bz: he's in multiple channels
# [06:35] <@bz> khuey: was that not his first time saying that?
# [06:35] <@khuey> no
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# [06:36] <@bz> khuey: ah, ok
# [06:36] <@khuey> bz: so, btw
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# [06:36] * @bz hears bindings
# [06:36] <@khuey> jonas has issues with your overloading code
# [06:36] <@bz> ok
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# [06:36] <@khuey> mostly because he has issues with the spec
# [06:36] <@bz> _I_ have issues with my overloading code
# [06:36] <@bz> heh
# [06:36] <@khuey> ha
# [06:36] <@bz> what would he prefer?
# [06:36] <@khuey> jonas claims that certain things about the spec are not web-compatible
# [06:36] <@bz> hmmm
# [06:36] <@bz> That's possible
# [06:36] <@bz> though I'd like to know what
# [06:37] * @bz didn't read the algorithm all that carefully in terms of _which_ overload is picked
# [06:37] <@khuey> he had a list, but the one I remember is that for xhr.send passing in objects needs to .toString them if they're not one of { Blob, Document, FormData, ArrayBuffer }
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# [06:37] <@bz> ok
# [06:37] * kwierso_ is now known as kwierso
# [06:37] <@bz> the spec does that
# [06:37] <@bz> no?
# [06:37] <@khuey> there was also stuff about undefined/null
# [06:38] <@khuey> well he seemed to think the code didn't ...
# [06:38] <@khuey> he could be wrong of course, I haven't actually read the code
# [06:38] <@bz> one sec
# [06:38] <@bz> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1530769
# [06:38] <@bz> so
# [06:38] <@bz> you pass in some random object
# [06:39] <@bz> isNullOrUndefined tests false
# [06:39] <@bz> IsPlatformObject() tests false
# [06:39] <@bz> and we land in....
# [06:39] <@bz> xpc_qsDOMString arg0(cx, argv[0], &argv[0],
# [06:39] <@bz> xpc_qsDOMString::eNull,
# [06:39] <@bz> xpc_qsDOMString::eNull);
# [06:39] <@bz> lgtm
# [06:39] <@khuey> ok
# [06:39] <@khuey> I'll get jonas to write mail about this then
# [06:39] <@bz> please
# [06:39] <@khuey> so we can check off all the boxes
# [06:39] <@bz> yeah
# [06:40] <@bz> I can totally buy that there may be issues with the spec or with my impl or with Jonas' brain or any subset thereof
# [06:40] <@khuey> well, I know there are issues with his brain :-P
# [06:40] * @bz knows for a fact that the impl and the brain have some issues
# [06:40] <@bz> indeed
# [06:40] <@bz> ;)
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# [06:41] <heycam> DOMString should be chosen if it's one of the possible argument types and the JS value didn't match one of the interface types
# [06:41] <@bz> right
# [06:42] <@khuey> ok
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# [06:46] <@bz> ah, pdf.js is off by default
# [06:46] <@bz> wow
# [06:47] <@bz> pdf.js is suprisingly good!
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# [06:47] * @bz was expecting worse perf
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# [06:47] <jdm> I've been using it for a few months now
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# [06:48] <fabrice> is it in nightlies?
# [06:48] <jdm> I find it eminently usable in most cases
# [06:48] <@bz> fabrice: it will be tomorrow morning
# [06:48] <@bz> jdm: does it have search?
# [06:48] <fabrice> nice
# [06:48] <jdm> bz: you can actually use the regular page find with it
# [06:48] * @bz also mutters about three-finger swipe
# [06:48] <jdm> there are some quirks with highlighting
# [06:48] <jdm> but it's usable
# [06:48] <@bz> jdm: doesn't work for me
# [06:49] <jdm> odd
# [06:49] <@bz> jdm: at least on the first pdf I tried....
# [06:49] <@bz> http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/Ecma-262.pdf
# [06:49] <@bz> search for [[Class]]
# [06:49] <@bz> obvious testcase, right? ;)
# [06:50] <jdm> bz: it might generate text content for pages lazily/slowly right now
# [06:50] <@bz> ah
# [06:50] <jdm> bz: for example, I can search for ECMA and get the title on the first page
# [06:50] <@bz> yes, could be
# [06:50] <@bz> makes search hard. :(
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# [06:51] <jdm> yes, I agree
# [06:51] <Mossop> It's off by default?
# [06:51] <@bz> Mossop: it was in the hourly I just grabbed
# [06:51] * jdm files an issue about searching
# [06:51] <Mossop> Hmm
# [06:52] <Mossop> I bet it's falling foul of our third-party add-on blocking
# [06:52] <@bz> jdm: where do bugs on this go?
# [06:52] <@bz> Mossop: could be ....
# [06:52] <jdm> https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/new
# [06:52] * @bz files bugs too
# [06:53] <philor> is our fullscreen impl as good as our fullscreen tests?
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# [06:53] <@bz> philor: is that a loaded question?
# [06:54] <philor> I think the per-push average failure rate is above two
# [06:54] <Mossop> bz: Did it not show a tab asking you to enable it on startup?
# [06:56] <philor> dougt: hello, how are you this evening?
# [06:56] <@bz> Mossop: lemme check
# [06:56] <jdm> burn burn burn
# [06:56] <@bz> Mossop: keep in mind I started up with a url on the command line....
# [06:56] <Mossop> I would hope it still would, but possible it doesn't in that case
# [06:57] * @bz is checking
# [06:57] <cjones> d'oh, sorry, landed over a dougt backout
# [06:57] <@bz> no
# [06:57] <@bz> all I see is the url I passed on the command-line
# [06:57] <cjones> jdm, are you on backout duty?
# [06:57] <jdm> nope
# [06:58] <@bz> and if I don't pass a url, I just get the firstrun page and the nightly start page
# [06:58] <Mossop> Once you've run once that is it, after that it doesn't matter. I guess I'll test it out tomorrow
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# [07:02] <cjones> omg, the commit message hook ate my backout
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# [07:08] <@bz> anyone know who's taking over for blizzard, btw?
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# [07:10] <philor> dougt: be sure to clobber that slave where you killed the build, since it's now broken
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# [07:13] <dougt> philor: still loading...
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# [07:14] <pallanikumaran> hello people
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# [07:14] <pallanikumaran> how do i split a bug into 2 blocking bugs?
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# [07:15] <dholbert> bz, so an image that fails to load produces a non-replaced inline?
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# [07:25] <@bz> dholbert: in Gecko it does, yes
# [07:25] <@bz> dholbert: specifically, a textframe with the alt text
# [07:25] <dholbert> bz, gotcha... is it specced anywhere whether that textframe is considered replaced or not?
# [07:25] <@bz> dholbert: in the future it will produce a replaced inline (some sort of "failed to load" icon) and then a non-replaced inline (the alt text)
# [07:26] <@bz> dholbert: it's not specced, but you have two options
# [07:26] <@bz> dholbert: either it can line-wrap and such and then it's non-replaced
# [07:26] <@bz> dholbert: or you can't read it (the WebKit approach)
# [07:26] <kwierso> pallanikumaran: just file another one and set them to blocking the same bug? if you want to pre-seed the CC list (and don't feel that it would annoy the recipients), you can use the "clone this bug" link to copy the original bug's metadata
# [07:26] <@bz> dholbert: the specs don't actually require the alt text to be in any way usable for people not using a screen reader....
# [07:27] <@bz> dholbert: e.g. no spec requires that it be shown at all
# [07:28] <@bz> dholbert: I'd sort of like to understand the intent of the flexbox rule as written....
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# [07:28] <dholbert> bz, so, for images at least (ignoring floats for the moment)
# [07:29] <dholbert> bz, I think the idea is to make it easy to do a toolbar by just sticking a bunch of images in a flexbox
# [07:29] <dholbert> bz, so, each image needs to get its own flexbox item
# [07:29] <@bz> dholbert: without having to style them display:block ?
# [07:29] <dholbert> bz, correct. That's how it's specced, at least
# [07:30] <@bz> dholbert: So I think this makes sense for cases when there's no text between the images
# [07:30] <dholbert> bz, right
# [07:30] <@bz> dholbert: but once you start intermixing text and images the behavior becomes pretty odd....
# [07:31] <@bz> Another question
# [07:31] <dholbert> bz, well, not _too_ odd, if you ignore the image failing to load issue.. I think if you're used to "images are flexbox items, just like divs are", then it makes sense
# [07:31] <@bz> whitespace
# [07:31] <@bz> I don't think it makes sense that adding a decorative image in the middle of my text causes it to suddenly break into two separate blocks....
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# [07:32] <dholbert> bz, in that case, you can wrap your text in a <div> manually, and everything works...
# [07:32] <@bz> Nor that it matters whether I have a <span> around the image......
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# [07:33] <@bz> yeah, so....
# [07:33] <dholbert> Yeah, that is a bit odd
# [07:33] <@bz> Let's consider your example:
# [07:33] <@bz> <div style="display: flexbox">
# [07:33] <@bz> <img>
# [07:33] <@bz> <img>
# [07:33] <@bz> </div>
# [07:34] <dholbert> sure
# [07:35] <@bz> Per the spec as written right now, that would be 5 flex items
# [07:35] <@bz> which seems obviously undesirable
# [07:35] <dholbert> I was assuming whitespace would be collapsed... but yeah, I'm not sure that's explicit anywhere
# [07:35] <@bz> unless empty flex items don't ever affect the layout of other items?
# [07:35] <@bz> not only is it not explicit, but it's not obvious
# [07:36] <@bz> since for a display:block on that div the whitespace between the two images would render
# [07:36] <@bz> and the whitespace before/after the images would not be collapsed until after line layout starts
# [07:36] <@bz> and would certainly generate boxes
# [07:36] <@bz> Per http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/text.html#white-space-model
# [07:36] <dholbert> empty flex items definitely do affect layout of other items. the question is whether we'd bother making an empty _anonymous_ flexbox item (where "empty" = contains just whitespace)
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# [07:37] <@bz> Sure
# [07:37] <@bz> you could take the table approach
# [07:37] <@bz> where whitespace that's not styled appropriately does not lead to generation of anonymous cells
# [07:37] <@bz> but then that has to be spelled out explicitly....
# [07:37] <@bz> as in, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox/#flex-items needs an actual processing model
# [07:38] <dholbert> Yeah, agreed
# [07:38] <dholbert> I'll send an email to the list w/ the example above
# [07:38] <@bz> thanks
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# [07:39] <dholbert> sure! thanks for the feedback / thoughts
# [07:39] <dholbert> so for floats
# [07:39] <dholbert> I agree that the behavior kind of sucks
# [07:39] <dholbert> but I also don't see an obvious better way, that still prevents flexbox items themselves from floating
# [07:39] <@bz> well, you could suppress floats altogether
# [07:40] <@bz> unless explicitly inside a block
# [07:40] <dholbert> that's true -- was just thinking that
# [07:40] <@bz> as in, the behavior your patch implements right now. ;)
# [07:40] <dholbert> heh :)
# [07:40] <dholbert> so anonymous blocks don't form a container-block for floats
# [07:40] <@bz> well
# [07:40] <dholbert> s/don't/wouldn't/
# [07:40] <@bz> they wouldn't if we did that
# [07:40] <@bz> right
# [07:41] <dholbert> That might be more sane than the current spec
# [07:41] <dholbert> I worry that I'm biased from implementation constraints :)
# [07:41] <@bz> indeed
# [07:41] <@bz> me too
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# [07:42] <@bz> Another issue
# [07:42] <dholbert> (but do I think the fact that an "<i>" wrapper around a floated span will dramatically change its behavior seems a bit broken)
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# [07:42] <@bz> Consider this testcase:
# [07:42] <@bz> <div style="display: inline">
# [07:43] <@bz> <div></div>
# [07:43] <@bz> <div></div>
# [07:43] <@bz> </div>
# [07:43] <dholbert> yup. So that all ends up in a single anonymous flexbox item
# [07:43] <dholbert> (assuming there's a flexbox around everything)
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# [07:43] <@bz> well
# [07:43] <@bz> in your impl it does
# [07:43] <@bz> per spec.... unclear
# [07:44] <@bz> I believe per CSS2.1 this markup leads to 3 inline boxes and two block boxes
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# [07:44] <dholbert> ohh right
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# [07:44] <dholbert> hm
# [07:44] <@bz> one sec
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# [07:44] <@bz> yes
# [07:44] <@bz> fwiw, that is actually what we generate
# [07:45] <@bz> the inline box in the middle only contains whitespace
# [07:45] <@bz> and there is no way to tell that it's present normally
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# [07:45] <@bz> but it's certainly there in our frame tree
# [07:45] <@bz> note that it's not just text; there's an actual nsInlineFrame there
# [07:45] * @bz can pastebin a frame dump
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# [07:46] <dholbert> thanks
# [07:46] <dholbert> (I think I roughly see what you mean)
# [07:46] <@bz> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1530963
# [07:47] <@bz> We suppress that frame taking up vertical space at reflow time..
# [07:47] <@bz> but you have to do your thing at frame construction time
# [07:47] <@bz> one option would be to suppress that inline frame
# [07:47] <@bz> maybe we should do that
# [07:47] <dholbert> the one in the middle?
# [07:47] <@bz> yes
# [07:48] <@bz> so instead of generating 3 inlines and two blocks, generate two inlines and one block
# [07:48] <@bz> but preserving that invariant is actually hard
# [07:48] <@bz> right now we depend on the fact that we don't have to do that
# [07:48] <dholbert> gotcha
# [07:49] <@bz> Specifically, it starts to suck when we get an incremental layout after we get the first child block but before we get the second one
# [07:49] <@bz> we could make that work if we had to....
# [07:50] <@bz> but it'd take a bit of surgery
# [07:50] <@bz> worth bringing this up, I guess
# [07:50] <dholbert> OK
# [07:50] <@bz> just to make sure the spec behavior is what I think it is
# [07:50] <@bz> and that this is desirable
# [07:50] <@bz> (e.g. note that position:relative on the inline would affect all of the flexbox items, presumably)
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# [07:51] <@bz> anyway
# [07:51] <@bz> I should sleep
# [07:51] <@bz> and stop worrying about edge cases
# [07:51] <dholbert> likewise. heh
# [07:51] <@bz> we should just implement what's easy
# [07:51] <@bz> ;)
# [07:51] <dholbert> yeah :)
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# [07:52] <dholbert> that's why I've been ignoring this inline-wrapping stuff for a little while :)
# [07:52] <dholbert> it's a lot more straightforward if I pretend that doesn't exist
# [07:52] <dholbert> anyway -- thanks for the feedback & help, & sleep well!
# [07:53] * bz is now known as bz_sleep
# [07:53] <@bz_sleep> you too
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# [08:01] <hsivonen> Thunderbird doesn't use anything from /suite/ right?
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# [08:06] <hsivonen> whoa. scary. mailnews actually uses nsIRDFXMLParser for parsing feeds
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# [08:16] <glob> happy bmo update day: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=656537,737401,737709,732440
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# [08:18] <hsivonen> glob: I guess that's the reason Bugzilla's databasa is failing?
# [08:18] <glob> hsivonen, it is?
# [08:19] <glob> hsivonen, no, it should be healthy; tell me more
# [08:19] <hsivonen> glob: fixed by reload
# [08:19] <glob> hsivonen, what was the error?
# [08:20] <hsivonen> glob: sorry, didn't copy it. the bug url was https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650784
# [08:20] <glob> hsivonen, ok, glitch in the matrix then :)
# [08:20] <dholbert> bz_sleep, ah -- I think your latter example (span wrapping some divs) is mentioned in the spec -- it says the markup should lead to an anonymous block around everything (around the span)
# [08:21] <dholbert> (er s/span/div with display:inline/)
# [08:22] <dholbert> bz_sleep, There's an similar example, at least -- <span id="item7.1"> which wraps "<div id="not-an-item7.3">block</div>
# [08:22] <@bz_sleep> dholbert: in that case the spec _really_ needs a processing model
# [08:22] <dholbert> (and some prose at the bottom clarifying that the div there is _not_ a flexbox item since it's contained inside an inline element)
# [08:22] <@bz_sleep> dholbert: because in CSS2.1 it clearly says that the block box for that div is not inside the inline box
# [08:22] <dholbert> bz_sleep, darn :-/
# [08:22] <@bz_sleep> dholbert: because the inline box is broken in two, etc
# [08:23] <@bz_sleep> dholbert: which is fine by me
# [08:23] <@bz_sleep> dholbert: the flexbox spec can define whatever processing model it wants
# [08:23] <@bz_sleep> dholbert: but it needs to define one
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# [08:23] <dholbert> yeah
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# [08:23] <@bz_sleep> dholbert: and whoever defines one needs to know what they want out and what they're doing
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# [08:24] <@bz_sleep> I saw we make Tab do it
# [08:24] <@bz_sleep> and point out his mistakes until he gets it right... ;)
# [08:24] <dholbert> WFM
# [08:24] <pallanikumaran> i am not sure on how to file a new blocking bug. could someone guide me on this?
# [08:24] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, define "blocking bug"
# [08:24] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, we use blocking to mean multiple things
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# [08:25] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, blocking another bug? (that bug can't proceed until this one is fixed?) or a bug that you think is super-crazy-important?
# [08:25] <dholbert> bz_sleep, now go to sleep
# [08:25] <hsivonen> today's agenda: wrestling with Editor-generated <br> nodes some more
# [08:26] <hsivonen> I wonder how long-lived the <br> hack was expected to be when it was put in place
# [08:26] * hsivonen is definitely not a fan of Editor-generated <br> nodes
# [08:27] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, I'm assuming you mean the former (one bug that blocks another one) based on your question before?
# [08:27] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, you might need editbugs privileges to modify the "blocking" field -- that might be why this is non-obvious. If you tell me the bug numbers and which one blocks which other one, I can link them up for you.
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# [08:28] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, (but be quick about it, because I'm heading to bed soon. :) someone else can help I'm gone by the time you respond)
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# [08:30] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: ok
# [08:31] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: sorry for the delay
# [08:31] <dholbert> no prob
# [08:31] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: these are the bugs 735124 and 735127
# [08:31] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, cool -- and what bug should they block?
# [08:32] <hendry> when I override the about.xhtml and I use a unescaped ampersand, the processing just bombs out.
# [08:32] <dholbert> ah, I see
# [08:32] <hendry> how when I escape it and a user clicks the link, the & is not converted by the firefox extension. any hints?
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# [08:32] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: no, i have to create new bugs which block those two i mentioned
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# [08:33] <dholbert> er whoops, yeah
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# [08:33] <hsivonen> hendry: that's really strange. it should be standard XML behavior. above-DOM stuff shouldn't even be able to see what the entities were
# [08:33] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, so you don't see editable "Blocks" textfields at the top of those bug pages?
# [08:34] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: no. there is no edit option
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# [08:34] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, OK -- and you don't see a "blocks" field towards the bottom of this page, if you click the "Show Advanced Fields" button? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Core&component=General
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# [08:37] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: i don't see the blocks there too
# [08:37] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, OK -- yeah, that must require editbugs -- go ahead and file the new bugs, and then post the numbers here, and I'll mark them
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# [08:39] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: ok
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# [08:40] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, eventually (soon, if you're planning on doing more mozilla hacking after these bugs), you'll want to get editbugs privileges
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# [08:41] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: alright. So i just use the same title and decriptions as in the original bugs?
# [08:41] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, (we hand editbugs out pretty easily. See 3rd item ("I'd like my permissions upgraded...") here: http://www.gerv.net/hacking/before-you-mail-gerv.html (gerv is one of the people who can grant editbugs))
# [08:41] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, not sure, looking
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# [08:42] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, name them { Fix "beause" spelling in /ipc/chromium } etc
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# [08:43] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, actually it's probably simpler if you just post a comment on the existing bug (responding to sgautherie), saying "say "OK I filed bugs XXX, YYY, ZZZ -- can you flag those as marking these? I can't because I don't have editbugs"
# [08:43] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, I'm heading to bed. :)
# [08:44] <dholbert> pallanikumaran, I'm sure sgautherie will be happy to mark the bugs as blocking for you though
# [08:44] <pallanikumaran> dholbert: thanks for your help
# [08:44] <dholbert> sure
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# [09:02] <glazou> bonjour
# [09:03] <nigelb> Morning!
# [09:03] <nigelb> Well, actually, afternoon! :)
# [09:03] <darktrojan> howdy
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# [09:43] <glandium> can someone backout bug 732480 for me? My triple boot is fucked up and i can't boot to linux, where my hg push key is, at the moment
# [09:43] <glandium> on inbound
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# [09:46] <darktrojan> wow you make pretty colours
# [09:46] <Unfocused> i can... direct darktrojan to
# [09:46] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5c13fce74f83 - Neil Rashbrook - Bug 737022 Re-enable strict warnings when parsing XUL r=jst
# [09:46] <darktrojan> oi
# [09:47] <glandium> darktrojan: i'm a raibow man
# [09:47] <glandium> +n
# [09:47] <Unfocused> no? :P
# [09:47] <darktrojan> you don't pay me enough for backouts... but I'm updating my inbound atm anyway
# [09:47] <Unfocused> heh
# [09:48] <darktrojan> added 1517 changesets with 7966 changes to 3453 files
# [09:48] <darktrojan> it's been a while
# [09:48] <Unfocused> yea, mine is a bit behind.. forgot i had it
# [09:48] <Unfocused> <3 fx-team repo, much less churn than inbound
# [09:49] <darktrojan> just the one patch, glandium ?
# [09:49] <glandium> darktrojan: yes. the android rainbow is because of a lack of clobber
# [09:49] <glandium> which i'm triggering right now
# [09:49] <darktrojan> k
# [09:49] <glandium> thanks
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# [09:55] <darktrojan> one day, someone will fix tbpl so the line of failing tests doesn't overlap the tree status
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# [09:59] <darktrojan> and also it will star itself
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# [11:34] <rohan> can anyone help me about how to create a diff file? i tried learning from https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Creating_a_patch#Including_new_files_in_a_patch
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# [11:36] <NeilAway> darktrojan bugmail ping day today ;-)
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# [11:37] <darktrojan> so now you ping me in #developers to tell me I'm getting bugmail
# [11:37] <darktrojan> thanks, er, I think
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# [11:44] <hsivonen> did someone manually request builds on my DONTBUILD landing on inbound?
# [11:45] <NeilAway> hsivonen: in rare cases it might have been picked up by the builder because the previous landing got skipped
# [11:46] <hsivonen> NeilAway: ok
# [11:46] <Unfocused> darktrojan: we're gonna start calling you every time you get bugmail starting from next weerk
# [11:47] <darktrojan> thanks
# [11:47] * darktrojan turns his phone off
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# [11:47] <Unfocused> rohan: hi! what are you having trouble with?
# [11:48] <Unfocused> er..
# [11:48] <darktrojan> well timed
# [11:49] <hsivonen> Unfocused: do you know if Samba is available for Lion?
# [11:49] <darktrojan> simba, maybe
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# [11:50] <Unfocused> i swear, the amount of people that get help from me would double if they just didn't quit after a few minutes
# [11:50] <Unfocused> hsivonen: no idea, sorry. homebrew *might* have it
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# [11:52] <darktrojan> hsivonen, also those are PGO builds, they'll build anything at the appropriate time
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# [11:53] <sewardj> kinetik: you around?
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# [11:53] <hsivonen> Unfocused: thanks
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# [11:57] <hsivonen> uh oh. my work queue looks like I should start working on about:blank again...
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# [11:58] <Unfocused> hsivonen: if that page is giving you so much trouble, maybe you should just rewrite it....
# [11:58] <Unfocused> ;)
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# [12:04] <c0smikdebris> building alder is giving me "Undefined symbols:", all related to XmlParser. Am I missing something here?
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# [12:12] <glandium> is there anywhere in the ui that displays the buildid these days?
# [12:12] <Unfocused> glandium: about:buildconfig
# [12:13] <glandium> Unfocused: nope, not on local builds
# [12:14] <darktrojan> as in 2012-03-22?
# [12:14] <Unfocused> c0smikdebris: what is that branch used for these days, WebRTC? doesn't seem like that would touch xmlparser... done a clobber build?
# [12:14] <Unfocused> glandium: it does for me
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# [12:15] <glandium> darktrojan: as in yymmddhhmmss
# [12:16] <Unfocused> oh.. that sort of build id. thought you meant the revision
# [12:17] <c0smikdebris> Unfocused: yup.. webrtc. no luck with a clobber build. i think its something to do with the internal expat library
# [12:18] <glandium> c0smikdebris: check with jesup, he's been doing a lot to get alder to build
# [12:18] <sewardj> !seen kinetik
# [12:18] <firebot> kinetik was last seen 32 hours and 47 seconds ago, saying 'i guess i owe you a cigar' in #developers.
# [12:20] <Unfocused> sewardj: firebot is lying, kinetik was around today
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# [12:25] <c0smikdebris> whats the right place to find email-ids of mozilla folk?
# [12:26] <Unfocused> c0smikdebris: https://mozillians.org/ ?
# [12:26] <Unfocused> doesn't have everyone yet though :\
# [12:27] <c0smikdebris> oh. but can I sign in if i'm not an employee?
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# [12:27] <Unfocused> yep, its for everyone in the mozilla community
# [12:27] <c0smikdebris> "Your profile is waiting for approval. Send this link to someone who is familiar with your contributions and ask them to vouch for you: "
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# [12:28] <Unfocused> point me to something to familiarize me with your contributions :)
# [12:29] <glandium> we don't have automated testing on osx 10.5 anymore, do we?
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# [12:30] <c0smikdebris> Unfocused: this was my gsoc project last year. https://wiki.mozilla.org/HTML5_Speech_API
# [12:30] <c0smikdebris> havent commited anything yet though :/
# [12:30] <Unfocused> glandium: tbpl says we do (10.5.8)
# [12:30] <sewardj> Unfocused: hmm, it's probably not still day in Auckland now, tho
# [12:30] <c0smikdebris> or i can wait for smaug to help me out (he was my mentor)
# [12:31] <glandium> Unfocused: oh, 32 bits osx is 10.5.8, i hadn't realized that
# [12:31] <glandium> so we don't test 32 bits 10.6 then
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# [12:43] <qheaden> gerv: ping
# [12:43] <gerv> pong.
# [12:43] <Yoric> Do we have a downtime on wiki.mozilla.org?
# [12:44] <qheaden> gerv: Hi there. I'm still working on my proposal and peer reviewing with Frederic, but I was wondering when I should send it off to you for review?
# [12:44] <Metapioca> Yoric: works here
# [12:44] <gerv> qheaden: No, no need.
# [12:44] <Yoric> Metapioca: yes, but I can't edit a page I have just created.
# [12:44] <gerv> I believe it's still possible to change it after it's been sent anyway,
# [12:44] <gerv> and I certainly don't have bandwidth to pre-review lots of proposals :-)
# [12:45] <gerv> If you are working with the mentor on it already,
# [12:45] <gerv> then that's a big step forward.
# [12:45] <qheaden> gerv: Bandwitdh is no object! :P
# [12:45] * bhearsum|afk is now known as bhearsum
# [12:46] <qheaden> gerv: OK, great. So I'll just submit it on the 26th. I think that's the starting date for applications.
# [12:46] <gerv> If you say so :-)
# [12:46] <qheaden> :)
# [12:47] <qheaden> gerv: Also, would you recommend sending in two or more proposals for different projects, for just working on a proposal for a single project?
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# [12:47] <gerv> qheaden: There's no point sending in two proposals for projects with the same mentor.
# [12:47] <gerv> Just ask the mentor which one he'd prefer.
# [12:47] <gerv> There is value
# [12:47] <gerv> in sending in proposals for two projects in different areas of the code.
# [12:47] <qheaden> gerv: No, I mean different projects with different mentors.
# [12:47] <gerv> Yes, there's certainly value in that.
# [12:48] <gerv> If we decide not to take a MathML project for some reason,
# [12:48] <gerv> then you have a backup.
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# [12:48] <hsivonen> where do core files go when Firefox on Ubuntu claims "(core dumped)"?
# [12:48] <gerv> Or, if there's someone else better suited than you for project A,
# [12:48] <gerv> you might still have a chance for project B.
# [12:48] <qheaden> Ok.
# [12:48] <qheaden> gerv: So what happens if I am acceted for both? I just pick which one I want?
# [12:49] <gerv> hsivonen: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ubuntu%20core%20dump%20folder
# [12:49] <gerv> ;-)
# [12:49] <gerv> qheaden: You won't be accepted for both,
# [12:49] <gerv> at least not if you apply to the same org!
# [12:49] <gerv> If you get accepted by two different orgs,
# [12:49] <gerv> the org admins are supposed to duke it out, and then there's a deduplicating meeting on IRC.
# [12:49] <qheaden> ok
# [12:50] <hsivonen> gerv: thanks. so the message is a lie. ok.
# [12:50] <gerv> hsivonen: You need to turn them on with ulimit.
# [12:50] <gerv> AFAIK.
# [12:50] <gerv> Never done it, though.
# [12:50] <gerv> Message could well be a lie.
# [12:50] <jfkthame_afk> so.... if i create a mozillians.org profile, how can i tell who's entitled to vouch for me?
# [12:50] <qheaden> gerv: So basically, if I apply for two Mozilla tasks, you guys determine which one I will work on, if I am accepted.
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# [12:50] <hsivonen> I wish we had pretty stack traces for self-made builds on Ubuntu as on Mac
# [12:50] <gerv> qheaden: we accept the task-student combo, not the student.
# [12:50] <gerv> So it's not like
# [12:51] <gerv> "We accept you; which task do you want to do"
# [12:51] <gerv> it's like
# [12:51] <gerv> "we accept you to do this task"
# [12:51] <hsivonen> jfkthame: if you use the invitation link you got to your @mozilla.com address, you have been pre-vouched
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# [12:51] <qheaden> gerv: Gotcha.
# [12:51] <gerv> hsivonen: which is a very sad thing :-|
# [12:51] <jfkthame> hsivonen: ohh.... well, i didn't do that
# [12:51] * gerv 's vision for Mozillians was not to have any "special privileges" for employees
# [12:51] <jfkthame> as i've long since forgotten that mail
# [12:51] <gerv> jfkthame: I'm happy to vouch for you.
# [12:51] <gerv> Point me at your profile.
# [12:51] <jfkthame> gerv: ok, thx
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# [13:02] <qheaden> florian: ping
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# [13:05] <qheaden> gerv: Does Florian Quèze have an @mozilla.org email, or just a @instantbird.org email?
# [13:05] <gerv> qheaden: Not sure;
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# [13:05] <gerv> what's wrong with the instantbird email?
# [13:05] <qheaden> ok
# [13:05] <qheaden> Nothing. I was just wondering if he had one.
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# [13:06] <gabor> khuey: hey there, just a reminder: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733035
# [13:07] * qheaden loves Instantbird over Pidgin
# [13:10] <bhearsum> still 12 weeks until it makes it to beta :(
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# [13:15] <c0smikdebris> gerv: i'm curious. will a gsoc proposal by a previous gsoc student be treated differently?
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# [13:16] <@khuey> gabor: if that's the postMessage one, I know
# [13:16] <@khuey> expect to get to it this weekend
# [13:17] <gabor> khuey: ok, just wanted to be sure that you have it in mind...
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# [13:18] <@khuey> I do ... just in the middle of lots of stuff :-(
# [13:18] <@khuey> silly end of quarter deadlines
# [13:21] <gerv> c0smikdebris: No, I don't think so.
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# [13:21] <gerv> Except that they could get credit for putting it under "previous experience".
# [13:21] <gerv> We have no issues at all about taking someone a second time,
# [13:22] <gerv> although we might have concerns if they'd vanished from the community in the intervening time.
# [13:22] <c0smikdebris> ahh..cool. thanks!
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# [13:26] <@khuey> http://epicpullrequests.tumblr.com/
# [13:27] <qheaden> lol
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# [13:29] <NeilAway> bah, which dump does a component use?
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# [13:30] <@khuey> the one in JSComponentLoader I think
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# [13:38] <KaiRo> gerv: I heard you might want to fight a war against writable cvs - apart from live code being in there, I wonder why that's necessary, given we deactivate unused accounts anyhow
# [13:38] <gerv> KaiRo: I have no particular desire to "fight a war",
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# [13:39] <gerv> but my understanding is that Mozilla IT wants to stop supporting the CVS server (by making it read-only) and associated infra, because it's a significant drain on resources.
# [13:39] <gerv> Given that desire, I am investigating who is currently still using it.
# [13:40] <Standard8> well I know releng still is
# [13:40] <KaiRo> there's quite some bits of live code in there, AFAIK - at least NSPR, NSS, mozbot, AUS, patcher, possibly some other releng stuff, seamonkey-project.org that I know of
# [13:41] <Kwan> Hey http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/test/browser_bug329212.js#28 should be a isnot() right?
# [13:41] <Unfocused> i thought releng moved all their stuff recently?
# [13:41] <Standard8> Unfocused: nope, as KaiRo said, bits of aus, patcher & update generation are still in cvs
# [13:41] <gerv> KaiRo: indeed.
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# [13:41] <gerv> I know about NSPR and NSS.
# [13:42] <NeilAway> khuey|away: ah, it's just called xul!Dump
# [13:42] <gerv> Do the people maintaining seamonkey-project.org have any plans to move?
# [13:42] <Unfocused> Kwan: yep
# [13:42] <KaiRo> most releng tools are in hg, but a few of those old things are still in cvs
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# [13:42] <Kwan> Unfocused: okay, thanks
# [13:42] <NeilAway> Kwan: probably
# [13:43] <Standard8> gerv: I bet tinderbox is still in cvs, not sure if it ever needs updates though...
# [13:43] <KaiRo> gerv: I think it would be quite some work that wouldn't have much benefit to just move the version control there, the framework used for the website should change as well, and there are no resources for constructive website work in SeaMonkey right now
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# [13:43] <KaiRo> Standard8: well, IT wants to turn off tinderbox anyhow
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# [13:44] <Standard8> KaiRo: first I've heard of it
# [13:44] <gerv> Standard8: tbpl is the new hotness.
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# [13:44] <gerv> They've been slowly working to get tinderbox itself out of that path,
# [13:44] <gerv> by having BuildBot report directly.
# [13:44] <gerv> (AIUI)
# [13:44] <Standard8> sure, but that ain't working for Thunderbird or SeaMonkey yet
# [13:45] <KaiRo> Standard8: interesting, Firefox already completely moved away from it, and a few months ago that plans was to mothball the tinderbox server on Jan 1, 2012, but apparently that didn't hold
# [13:45] <Standard8> and I suspect the multiple repo issue with tbpl isn't going to resolve itself quickly
# [13:45] <florian> qheaden: hello :) I do have an @mozilla.com address, but that's not important to contact me for projects related to instantbird. To discuss summer of code project ideas for Instantbird, I would suggest doing it publicly in #instantbird rather than in private email.
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# [13:46] <qheaden> florian: Hi there. I just sent you an email. :P
# [13:46] <qheaden> florian: But we can discuss it in #instantbird.
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# [13:47] <KaiRo> Standard8: not unless somebody actively works on it
# [13:47] <Standard8> KaiRo: exactly
# [13:48] <froydnj> can try do aurora builds?
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# [13:49] * KaiRo is still not a fan of tbpl but needs to watch trees so rarely that he doesn't care much what the tools of choice are
# [13:50] <NeilAway> smaug: why can a range be created for a PI but not a doctype node?
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# [13:55] <jfkthame> froydnj: yes
# [13:56] <@smaug> NeilAway: ?
# [13:57] <@smaug> NeilAway: AryehGregor ^^
# [13:57] <@smaug> NeilAway: the patch I reviewed was about extractContents
# [13:57] <froydnj> jfkthame: just pushing from an aurora tree, or something else?
# [13:57] <@smaug> NeilAway: dtd node can't be moved to a documentfragment
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# [13:58] <jfkthame> froydnj: it should work to push your aurora tree to try
# [13:58] <froydnj> oh, I guess it's just one big tree on try that builds whatever heads you hand it
# [13:59] <jfkthame> something like that
# [13:59] <NeilAway> smaug: ok
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# [14:09] <AryehGregor> NeilAway, ranges per spec cannot have PIs as endpoints, IIRC. GTG, though.
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# [14:18] <gakiwate> rillian, Hi
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# [14:36] <sourabh912> jaws:hi
# [14:39] <Unfocused> sourabh912: he may not be awake yet
# [14:41] <sourabh912> unfocussed:At what appropriate time I can talk to him.
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# [14:42] <sourabh912> Sorry I misspelled Unfocused
# [14:42] <Unfocused> sourabh912: hmm, maybe 3 hours from now?
# [14:43] <Unfocused> maybe 2
# [14:43] <@smaug> khuey|away: ping
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# [14:44] <Unfocused> sourabh912: he's in california, its pretty early there still - http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_US-CA.aspx
# [14:45] <sourabh912> ok thanks ......
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# [14:47] <Kwan> If I file a bug on a test should I mark it blocking the bug that created said test?
# [14:47] <Unfocused> Kwan: yep
# [14:48] <Kwan> Unfocused: done, thanks
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# [14:52] <sourabh912> Can I submit more than one proposal to same organisation under two different mentors with two different projects.
# [14:53] <Unfocused> sourabh912: yes
# [14:53] <Unfocused> (i only know that because it was asked earlier)
# [14:54] <sourabh912> Unfocused:ok
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# [14:55] * KaiRo is pretty confused by this new "chrome hang" reporting system - awfully sounds like most of it is uselessly reinventing the wheel, as we have stack gathering, unwinding, and connecting with symbols all done in the crash reporting systems already
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# [14:58] <hsivonen> mak: did the m-c to m-i merge that you did bring in the changesets that I should rebase the bookmark importer to in order to land?
# [14:58] <mak> yes
# [14:58] <mak> in any of the 2 trees
# [14:59] <hsivonen> mak: ok. So I just remove my changes to the profile importer altogether for now?
# [14:59] <bhearsum> if anyone sees any burning due to packaging failures, please ping me
# [14:59] <mak> hsivonen: just remove the import, all the rest may stay in place
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# [15:00] <hsivonen> mak: ok. thanks
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# [15:05] <mak> hsivonen: now that I think about that, we need SR from someone... may ping gavin later
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# [15:05] <mak> it's a removal, should not steal too much time
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# [15:07] <hsivonen> mak: we still do super-reviews???
# [15:08] <hsivonen> :-(
# [15:08] <mak> yep
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# [15:09] <hsivonen> mak: is this a Firefox module thing? I don't recall many Core super-reviews after they stopped being mandatory for every patch.
# [15:09] <mak> afaik, it's still mandatory for any interface change (or large change)
# [15:09] <mak> surely in toolkit and firefox, dunno Core
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# [15:09] <@bz_sleep> core too
# [15:10] <@bz_sleep> generally
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# [15:10] <hsivonen> well, as long as we don't treat nsIParser as a real interface... :-)
# [15:10] <drice> Is it normal for bz to be contributing in his sleep? :)
# [15:10] <hsivonen> drice: yes
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# [15:11] <@bz> heh
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# [15:12] <mak> bhearsum: are there known network issues? can't retrigger tests (network error)
# [15:12] <mak> ok, as soon as I told you it started working again :p
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# [15:13] <bhearsum> :P
# [15:13] <bhearsum> not that i know of
# [15:13] <mak> there was also a purple mochitest on inbound due to some network problem... maybe just overloaded
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# [15:14] <mounir> do we have any rule regarding cross-posting in newsgroups/mailing-lists?
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# [15:15] <hsivonen> mounir: avoid
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# [15:15] <KaiRo> wow, gcc is 25 years old
# [15:15] <mounir> that's what I'm about to send to a few mailing-lists but I wonder if there is any written rule
# [15:15] <mounir> cause people are just going to tell me "yes, but it's convenient"
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# [15:16] <hsivonen> mak: hooray, xpcshell tests still pass. at least locally
# [15:17] <mak> hsivonen: are you on windows?
# [15:17] <hsivonen> mak: Linux 64
# [15:17] <mak> ah ok, I have to check a win only test, but may pass still
# [15:17] <mak> will do as soon as you attach
# [15:18] <hsivonen> mak: attached
# [15:19] <mak> bhearsum: there is also one of these I had never seen
# [15:19] <mak> Connecting to ftp.mozilla.org|63.245.209.137|:80... connected.
# [15:19] <mak> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 503 Server Too Busy
# [15:19] <bhearsum> ah, we've had a few of those the past week or so
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# [15:27] <@bz> mounir: "when cross-posting, make sure to set both Reply-To and Followup-To"
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# [15:27] <@bz> mounir: and hope the people replying don't screw it up somehow after that
# [15:27] <mounir> bz: oh, i didn't knew about followup-to
# [15:28] <hsivonen> mounir: for nnpt users
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# [15:29] <mounir> right now, we have a discussion happening in 4 different places at the same time
# [15:29] <mounir> it's so awesome :-/
# [15:30] <mounir> three, actually
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# [15:30] <mounir> I was being negative :)
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# [15:42] <jlebar> I presume there's no equivalent of WeakMap for C++?
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# [15:43] <@smaug> jlebar: store nsWeakPtrs in hashtable ?
# [15:43] <jlebar> smaug, Yeah, but you have to occasionally clean them up.
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# [15:43] <@smaug> ah, sure
# [15:45] <nemo> Anyone notice FF11 is significantly slower at Kraken than FF10 was?
# [15:45] <@smaug> really?
# [15:46] <nemo> FF10 was within 10-12% of Chrome's speed on my machine
# [15:46] <nemo> FF11 is slower than FF9
# [15:46] <nemo> more like 16-17%
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# [15:46] <nemo> http://m8y.org/tmp/kraken.xhtml - Just ran FF11 on same machine
# [15:46] <froydnj> ok, why am I getting errors about nsCRT::free
# [15:46] <nemo> got 3587
# [15:46] * nemo looks over the individual tests
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# [15:46] <philor> mak: learn to live with 503 too busy, we have a double handful of them every single day
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# [15:47] <mak> philor: I'll print it on my pillow
# [15:47] <nemo> huh. just seems overall slower. odd.
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# [16:02] <jprmc> jesup: almost Alder green :-)
# [16:02] <jprmc> jesup: what's hanging us up on Win now?
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# [16:06] <@khuey> smaug: hi
# [16:06] <jesup> jprmc: a) gyp->makefile makes makefiles that don't work with gmake on windows (only pymake, and builders use gmake). b) a horrible circular dependency on stuff in libxul needed by the signaling code (logging code, thread support, others(?)), that kyle looked at and said "oh. That's a problem." We'll sit down with him, ted, a few others to figure it out after his DOM work week
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# [16:06] <@smaug> khuey: nm
# [16:06] <@smaug> khuey: someone was asking about IDB in #whatwg
# [16:07] <@smaug> but it was a bug in his test
# [16:07] <@khuey> ah
# [16:07] <@khuey> ok
# [16:07] * @bz thinks we should try to have a spec abbreviated IDK
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# [16:09] <@smaug> yeah, we should always first come up with a good acronym, then write a spec around that
# [16:09] * @smaug has done that once
# [16:10] <@khuey> ha
# [16:10] <@smaug> MUMMO (== grandmother) was a spec I wrote
# [16:10] <@smaug> I and my colleague just decided to write a spec called mummo
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# [16:11] <@smaug> for some reason some managers didn't like that, and I eventually had to change it to boring ICML
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# [16:24] <mak> hsivonen: nice nice
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# [16:29] <BenWa> Are crash report uptime in ms or seconds?
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# [16:31] <glandium> jlebar: want something fun? fixing bug 738176 made jemalloc2 stop crashing locally on 10.6
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# [16:31] <hsivonen> mak: thank you. I hope gavin's sr queue isn't too full for Q1
# [16:32] <jlebar> glandium, ? What changes did you make there that had any effect on 10.6?
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# [16:32] <@ehsan> joe: would you mind reviewing https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=608065&action=edit ?
# [16:32] <@ehsan> I need to build :/
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# [16:32] <glandium> jlebar: https://hg.mozilla.org/try/rev/47c9cb7f9736 (mainly jemalloc.h and mozalloc.cpp)
# [16:33] <glandium> jlebar: the HAVE_JEMALLOC_* stuff is for other reasons
# [16:33] <joe> espindola: 8-line patches!!! :)
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# [16:34] <jlebar> glandium, bizarre...
# [16:35] <joe> ehsan: done
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# [16:35] <@ehsan> thanks
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# [16:36] <mak> hm, for whatever reason a pdf.js test seems to be permaorange on linux debug
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# [16:37] <jbuck> yury: ^
# [16:37] <mak> the strange thing is it looks fine in inbound, timing out in central
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# [16:38] <espindola> joe, ?
# [16:38] <espindola> ah, -u 8
# [16:38] <joe> yeh
# [16:38] <espindola> sorry about that
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# [16:38] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5203c29c114a - Rafael Ávila de Espíndola - Bug 737909 - Fix opt -Werror build with clang; r=joe
# [16:38] <mak> ehsan: I forgive you just because you have to build :)
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# [16:40] <@ehsan> joe: I pushed another patch and forgot to add the patch file :((
# [16:40] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/da235c17d8a8 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 737909 - Address Joe's review comment; r=joe
# [16:40] <joe> three pushes!!
# [16:40] <joe> :D :D :D
# [16:40] <@ehsan> man I suck at this
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# [16:41] <@ehsan> joe: do I just need to add the patch file to gfx/cairo?
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# [16:41] <joe> ehsan: you can add it to Readme too
# [16:41] <@ehsan> ok
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# [16:42] <@ehsan> joe: fix-build-with-Werror=return-type.patch a good name?
# [16:42] <joe> sure
# [16:43] <@ehsan> joe: do you wanna review?
# [16:43] <joe> nah
# [16:43] <joe> r=me
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# [16:45] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/11ffc371ff2e - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 737909 - Add a patch file to gfx/cairo; r=joe
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# [16:46] <@ehsan> mak: I'd back out the pdf.js stuff
# [16:46] <mak> ehsan: why?
# [16:46] <@ehsan> mak: do you want me to?
# [16:46] <@ehsan> cause the test is orange?
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# [16:47] <mak> ehsan: I can fix it, I think. and actually it's random, ust that on linux debug happens quite often (only in central)
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# [16:47] <mak> doesn't look a strong enough reason for now
# [16:47] <@ehsan> mak: ok, your call :)
# [16:47] <mak> I'll make a patch and get review from... someone
# [16:48] <@ehsan> mak: if it's simple enough I can review :)
# [16:48] <mak> it is
# [16:48] <espindola> ehsan, thanks for checking it in!
# [16:48] <@ehsan> np
# [16:48] <@ehsan> needed to build ;)
# [16:48] <Rumal> Hi I am new here. I want to get involved in a project. any help?
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# [16:57] <AryehGregor> Rumal, what background do you have? Do you know how to write C++, JS? Are you familiar with web standards? Etc.
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# [16:59] <Rumal> AryehGregor: I have a good knowledge in js, css, and xul. I have developed several addons as well
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# [16:59] <Rumal> AryehGregor : I am good at java and have some knowledge in C++ as well
# [16:59] <AryehGregor> Rumal, one thing you can do is just look around for an interesting-looking bug and try writing a patch. This might be helpful: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Participating_in_the_Mozilla_project
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# [17:00] <AryehGregor> If you want to code, there are lots of bugs you can look at.
# [17:00] <AryehGregor> If you have one you're interested in, you might want to ask in here for pointers on how to fix it, if you can't figure it out yourself.
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# [17:00] <AryehGregor> If you'd prefer non-coding stuff, there's also documentation, QA, etc.
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# [17:01] <AryehGregor> (I'm not the most experienced Mozilla contributor, so maybe I'm not the best to ask, but I figured I'd answer since I'm around)
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# [17:01] <Rumal> I have not fixed any bugs upto now. So I am looking to start for an easy bug to start with
# [17:01] <Rumal> any suggestion to find them
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# [17:03] <@roc> how do I dial into a meeting at Mozilla's "The Bridge" room?
# [17:04] <Kwan> Rumal: there are bugs on bugzilla tagged with good first bug in the white board, try looking at those
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# [17:05] <jfkthame> Rumal: or look at mentored bugs. see https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Introduction for advice
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# [17:06] <Rumal> thanks folks I will bug you all again if I have any problems
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# [17:11] <glandium> ehsan: fwiw, in the end, i may consider landing jemalloc2 even without support for all platforms, because it might be dealable
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# [17:38] <rhelmer> philor: ping?
# [17:38] <AryehGregor> Callek, since you asked me to sign up for mozillians.org . . . https://mozillians.org/en-US/gLphVU57hnVGt6QVID7aIsIfQjk
# [17:38] <AryehGregor> It should let you vouch for yourself using your public key if you have commit access. :)
# [17:39] <Callek> AryehGregor: vouched ;-)
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# [17:39] <Callek> AryehGregor: that is a good idea [imo] (re: vouch for yourself)
# [17:39] <AryehGregor> Boo, no SVGs accepted for profile picture.
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# [17:43] <smontagu> ld: duplicate symbol smsGetCalibration(sms_calibration*) in ../../hal/smslib.o and ../../dom/system/cocoa/smslib.o
# [17:43] <smontagu> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
# [17:43] <froydnj> hm, what to do about android permaorange on my test push
# [17:44] <jfkthame> froydnj: wow, that looks even more orange than m-i and m-c usually are
# [17:44] <@ehsan> glandium: that is good news!
# [17:45] <philor> rhelmer: pong
# [17:45] <jfkthame> froydnj: which makes me suspect a real issue in your patches - any clues in the logs?
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# [17:45] <froydnj> jfkthame: yeah. it *looks* like infra problems: lots of complaints about java exceptions and android app permissions
# [17:45] <rhelmer> philor: hey, I have been talking to harsh and rohandalvi - they are interested in contributing to webdev, I suggested TBPL since they are looking for something PHP (that is not imminently switching :))
# [17:46] <jfkthame> froydnj: you could try re-triggering a few of them and see if they persist
# [17:46] <rhelmer> philor: can you suggest any good starter bugs (annoying but not hard to fix, not blockers, etc)
# [17:46] <froydnj> jfkthame: I've retriggered almost all of android opt ones at least once
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# [17:47] <jfkthame> hmm, so you have...
# [17:47] <@ehsan> BenWa: could you please review https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=608366&action=edit ?
# [17:47] <jfkthame> however, the pushes before and after yours are running tests successfully
# [17:47] <@ehsan> the profiling branch is busted :(
# [17:47] <froydnj> also true. this set of patches did just fine on m-c, though
# [17:48] <BenWa> ehsan: On it, must keep review queue empty!
# [17:48] <@ehsan> thanks
# [17:48] <froydnj> wonder if it's the particular slave
# [17:48] <philor> rhelmer: in the php parts? um, bug 596041, or writing a log parser for jetpack test failures since they don't use TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL
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# [17:49] <philor> froydnj: https://build.mozilla.org/buildapi/recent/tegra-264 with your slave-to-blame will tell you how it has been doing lately
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# [17:49] <Sirisian|Work> smaug, Curious. It looks like you read all the bugs as they come in (sorry about one of my duplicate ones for the MouseEvent buttons attribute). Did you have a chance to read the one about default actions that was just placed into the DOM 3 spec? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738105 Trying to see if browsers could fast track that through their implementations so I've been trying to get in touch with the main brow
# [17:49] <Sirisian|Work> ser people.
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# [17:50] <rhelmer> philor: HTML/JS/PHP is what they mentioned, so I don't think it needs to be only PHP
# [17:51] <froydnj> philor: ooo, thanks
# [17:51] <philor> rhelmer: there's that one armenzg filed about linking the slavename to buildapi/recent/, that'll be annoying but not hard to fix :)
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# [17:52] <@smaug> gerv: writing comments to your blog is strange
# [17:52] <gerv> smaug: Why so?
# [17:52] <rhelmer> philor: 736085?
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# [17:52] <philor> well, kind of hard, that being what will be annoying, that we know the slave name in our left hand, but it's our right hand just spitting out tinderboxprints
# [17:52] <philor> yep, that one
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# [17:52] <@smaug> I clicked the website field without looking what was reading there, and then I had no idea whether I should write something..
# [17:53] * armenzg_lunch is now known as armenzg
# [17:53] * gerv shrugs at Wordpress
# [17:53] <@smaug> gerv: and since the "website" is in gray, I wouldn't have thought that it would be hidden when I focus the field
# [17:54] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5c733c42bc44 - Ehsan Akhgari - Bug 734302 - Part 4: Fix the profiling builds on Mac and Windows; r=BenWa
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# [17:54] <jfkthame> froydnj: this was an aurora-based push, wasn't it? i wonder if there's some kind of config change between aurora and m-c that breaks the android tests for you
# [17:54] <@smaug> Sirisian|Work: I don't read all
# [17:54] <AryehGregor> Does anyone know if ted is around? It's been several days and he didn't respond to my request for review of https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735805 yet. jmaher, maybe you could review instead?
# [17:54] <@smaug> I read most of the related to event handling
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# [17:54] <philor> rhelmer: bug 687143 might be fun, get to write some fresh new UI (and, to somehow imagine where to stick it)
# [17:54] <jmaher> AryehGregor: I can review; ted is on limited internet this week and playing catchup
# [17:55] <AryehGregor> jmaher, okay, thanks.
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# [17:55] <@smaug> Sirisian|Work: FYI, masayuki is implementing many parts of D3E now, so you could contact him
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# [17:57] <froydnj> jfkthame: it was aurora-based. it doesn't touch anything other than the xpcshell tests, though
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# [17:58] <Sirisian|Work> ah okay. I'll try that. Just trying to get everything finalized so that mouse stuff is as standardized as possible across browsers. Especially with pointer lock coming getting full implementations now is a good time to get all the changes into MouseEvent and stuff. :)
# [17:58] <jfkthame> froydnj: i suspect the android tests may be broken for aurora on tryserver; that kind of thing can happen because try will use an mc-based setup
# [17:59] <jfkthame> froydnj: one thing you could do to check would be to push the (aurora) parent of your changes to try and see if it fails in the same way
# [17:59] <froydnj> jfkthame: ew, so no visibility on potential android aurora bustage on try?
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# [18:00] <jfkthame> i guess it's not guaranteed - pushing other repos to try will often work, depending how similar they are to m-c, but at times it does fail
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# [18:01] <jfkthame> pushing aurora tip to try would confirm whether it's currently ok or not
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# [18:02] <@smaug> gerv: have you run any bugzilla queries about who reviews and what. It would be great if we could somehow spread the reviews to reviewers more evenly
# [18:03] <bent> hm, do we not have the ability to download .sym files for a nightly build?
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# [18:03] <AryehGregor> If I find an old bug with steps to reproduce and it seems to be fixed, what should I do? WORKSFORME and "in-testsuite?"?
# [18:03] <@bz> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/opinion/please-stop-apologizing.html is oddly apropos...
# [18:03] <@smaug> WFM, and add in-testsuite? if you think it is something we should test
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# [18:04] <AryehGregor> Okay.
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# [18:05] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/4c7b843406a2 - Marco Bonardo - Bug 738287 - Make browser_pdfjs_main.js correctly wait for the add-ons manager API callback.
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# [18:05] <PraZuBeR> hi, i have a problem. i've downloaded and built firefox, but how can i make it friendly with my ide (vs10)? i hope there is a better solution than coding in notepad :)
# [18:06] <dwarfcrank> PraZuBeR: http://benoitgirard.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/using-visual-studio-2010-ide/
# [18:06] <dwarfcrank> That should help, /though/ I haven't managed to get IntelliSense working myself
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# [18:06] <dwarfcrank> (which is rather annoying as it's the reason I'd want to use VS)
# [18:06] <PraZuBeR> thanks!
# [18:07] <dwarfcrank> But do try it
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# [18:07] <glandium> jlebar: sadly, while bug 738176 does fix something with jemalloc2 on my machine under 10.6, it doesn't on the buildbots :(
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# [18:07] <dwarfcrank> And do tell me if you get Intellisense working with that :)
# [18:07] <gcp> MSVC is still nice for debugging
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# [18:08] <froydnj> jfkthame: will try that, thanks
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# [18:08] <jmaher> AryehGregor: is this review for mozilla-central or another branch?
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# [18:09] <AryehGregor> jmaher, what do you mean? The patch is written against mozilla-central, yes . . . what other branches are there?
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# [18:10] <jmaher> AryehGregor: we already have a check for no tests on mozilla-central: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/testing/mochitest/tests/SimpleTest/SimpleTest.js#318
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# [18:11] <AryehGregor> jmaher, yes, and my patch replaces that. The old check 1) was in report() instead of finish(), so it didn't get hit consistently; 2) was todo() instead of ok(), so it didn't cause test failure when it was hit. My patch identified a bunch of tests which were buggy and accidentally not running any tests, which no one noticed before because nothing raised a red flag.
# [18:12] <jmaher> AryehGregor: ok, thanks!
# [18:13] <mak> hg.mozilla.org Service disruption
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# [18:13] <mak> fyi
# [18:13] <JonathanS> http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.7/changes.html :)
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# [18:13] <@ehsan> is hg down?
# [18:13] <mak> yes
# [18:14] <armenzg> who is the owner of Jaegermonkey tree?
# [18:14] <armenzg> is that still active?
# [18:14] <armenzg> I can't check with hg being down
# [18:14] <@smaug> what is this "about:newaddon?id=uriloader@pdf.js"
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# [18:14] <@ehsan> armenzg: we killed it a while ago
# [18:14] <mak> smaug: confirm on third party add-on, unfortunately it thinks pdf.js that we bundled is one of those
# [18:14] <@smaug> why do I get this strange pdf js thingie ?
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# [18:14] <JonathanS> I noticed that GCC 4.7 changes contain "Improved scalability and reduced memory usage." and mention Firefox
# [18:14] <@smaug> huh
# [18:15] <armenzg> ehsan: is there a bug we could file to remove it?
# [18:15] <@smaug> mak: we bundle pdf.js ?
# [18:15] <armenzg> could I post a patch and ask you for review?
# [18:15] <@ehsan> armenzg: it has been removed afaik
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# [18:15] <mak> smaug: from last hourly or so
# [18:15] <@ehsan> armenzg: are you talking about tbpl?
# [18:16] <armenzg> ehsan: I am talking about that we have nightly builds, unit tests and talos running for it
# [18:16] <armenzg> well, if there were checkins
# [18:16] <@ehsan> armenzg: hmm wait
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# [18:17] <@ehsan> armenzg: sorry, I got it confused with TraceMonkey
# [18:17] <armenzg> ah
# [18:17] <@ehsan> armenzg: you should ask dmandelin
# [18:17] <armenzg> thanks ehsan
# [18:17] <@ehsan> sure thing
# [18:18] <gerv> smaug: I just put a URL to a CSV dump of all current requests into the post.
# [18:18] <gerv> Feel free to do your own analysis :-))
# [18:18] <@smaug> gerv: thanks
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# [18:21] <@bz> ld: duplicate symbol __Z10smsStartupP11objc_objectP13objc_selector in ../../hal/smslib.o and ../../dom/system/cocoa/smslib.o
# [18:21] <@bz> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
# [18:21] <@bz> Is this known?
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# [18:22] <@smaug> mak: ok, I really like pdf.js :) Thanks to gal and whoever has managed to get it to usable state
# [18:22] <@bz> also, why is trying to pull m-c totally hanging
# [18:22] <@bz> ?
# [18:23] <jhammel> because hg is being slow as a snail pulling a turtle
# [18:23] <catlee-buildduty> they're rebooting some of the backend servers
# [18:23] <@bz> ah
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# [18:23] <@bz> ok
# [18:23] <bwalker> smaug: props go to artur adid, brendan dahl, yury, jviereck and other contribs
# [18:23] <bwalker> s/adid/adib
# [18:23] <gerv> jhammel: snails don't like pulling turtles; they play hard to get too much
# [18:24] <gerv> One attempted kiss and it's straight back in the shell
# [18:24] * @smaug starts reading only pdf pages, since they don't contain annoying blinking ads and are usually in very readable form :)
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# [18:24] * jhammel sends smaug some pdf pages with annoying blinking ads
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# [18:25] <@bz> smaug: "readable"?
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# [18:25] <@bz> smaug: you clearly never tried reading ecma-262! ;)
# [18:25] <@smaug> bz: well, like just text
# [18:25] <@bz> smaug: formatted text
# [18:25] <philor> armenzg: I'll give you seven builders for fixing bug 737661, if seven will help ;)
# [18:25] <@bz> smaug: often with terrible formatting
# [18:26] <biesi> hah, I thought your ecma-262 remark was about the content, not the formatting
# [18:26] <armenzg> man! you are even bargaining!
# [18:26] <armenzg> :)
# [18:26] <@smaug> oh, ecma-foo has probably always aimed for totally unreadable text
# [18:26] <armenzg> trading? what is the right English term?
# [18:26] * jhammel goes with 'bargaining'
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# [18:27] <armenzg> philor: that is a nice try but I need to recuperate Linux testers
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# [18:27] <armenzg> I am doing a full refactoring
# [18:27] <philor> bhackett was the last owner of jaegermonkey
# [18:27] <armenzg> and make things a little smarter
# [18:27] <armenzg> hopefully
# [18:27] <armenzg> I should have a patch before EOD
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# [18:28] <mbrubeck> "bargaining" is good because it's one of the five stages of grief. :)
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# [18:30] <dholbert> m-i TBPL is feeling blue
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# [18:33] <armenzg> mbrubeck: :)
# [18:33] <armenzg> dholbert: hg has been down
# [18:33] <armenzg> or still is
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# [18:33] <armenzg> still is
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# [18:34] <dholbert> armenzg, gotcha. (WFM locally, but this must be build-cluster-specific I take it)
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# [18:36] <jaws> yeah ux tbpl feeling blue too...
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# [18:37] <catlee-buildduty> blue blue blue
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# [18:37] <catlee-buildduty> hg should be back up now
# [18:37] <catlee-buildduty> blues will be retried
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# [18:40] <NeilAway> JonathanS: I didn't even know that gcc supported Netware
# [18:40] <JonathanS> NeilAway, me either
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# [18:47] <dholbert> bz, [emailing www-style]
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# [18:50] <mcsmurf> hrm
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# [18:50] <mcsmurf> I get a timeout on http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/pushloghtml?&enddate=now&path=browser/installer&startdate=1+month+ago
# [18:50] <mcsmurf> guess that query is too "difficult" for the server
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# [18:51] <Callek> didn't know the path part worked
# [18:51] <mcsmurf> maybe it doesn't :D
# [18:51] <mcsmurf> that link is from mxr
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# [18:52] <Callek> mcsmurf: it don't http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/pushloghtml?enddate=now&path=browser/installer&startdate=1+day+ago
# [18:53] <Callek> so yea you were trying to load every cset for the past month from m-c, which is a lot
# [18:53] <mcsmurf> in bonsai this worked fine
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# [18:53] <mcsmurf> back to CVS!
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# [18:54] <mfinkle> rhelmer, ping
# [18:54] <rhelmer> mfinkle: pong
# [18:56] <mfinkle> rhelmer, data question on graph server
# [18:56] <mfinkle> Ts for android
# [18:57] <mfinkle> XUL -> http://graphs.mozilla.org/graph.html#tests=[[16,63,23]]&sel=none&displayrange=7&datatype=running
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# [18:57] <mfinkle> looks OK (well except for the recent bump)
# [18:57] <mfinkle> Natve -> http://graphs.mozilla.org/graph.html#tests=[[16,63,20]]&sel=none&displayrange=7&datatype=running
# [18:57] <mfinkle> something is causing a wild ass y axis
# [18:57] <mfinkle> scale
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# [18:58] <mfinkle> rhelmer, any chance you could take a peek and see what's happening?
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# [18:59] <rhelmer> mfinkle: yeah it's because it loads the whole series and then just zooms into it, so the scale is set to that - you can see if you look at 365 day view http://graphs.mozilla.org/graph.html#tests=[[16,63,20]]&sel=none&displayrange=365&datatype=running
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# [18:59] <rhelmer> mfinkle: still it's a bug, I think it's filed, shouldn't be hard to fix
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# [18:59] <rhelmer> mfinkle: I'll cc you and bump the priority on it
# [19:00] <mfinkle> rhelmer, thanks!
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# [19:11] <AryehGregor> http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/committer/committers-agreement.pdf links to http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/licensepolicy.html, which is broken.
# [19:12] <AryehGregor> I should probably file a bug somewhere?
# [19:12] <AryehGregor> Actually, other links are broken too.
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# [19:12] <@smaug> argh, pdf.js leaks
# [19:12] <hub> yes, it is build clobber day
# [19:12] <@smaug> who is the dev for pdf.js ?
# [19:12] <hub> *sigh*
# [19:12] <NeilAway> smaug: heh
# [19:12] <hub> another 2 hours build
# [19:13] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, Websites :: www.mozilla.org, I reckon
# [19:13] <NeilAway> smaug: event listeners?
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# [19:13] <@smaug> NeilAway: mccr8: pdf.js keeps the documents alive, it seems
# [19:13] <Ms2ger> !seen jviereck
# [19:13] <firebot> jviereck was last seen 7 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes and 49 seconds ago, saying 'Callek: thanks a lot. I finally got it working :) Missed to build in one of the subdirs' in #developers.
# [19:13] * Callek grumbles at false-pings
# [19:13] <mccr8> smaug: interesting
# [19:13] <@smaug> oh, wait
# [19:13] <Callek> :-)
# [19:13] <@smaug> maybe this is printing after all
# [19:13] <@smaug> since I did try printing
# [19:14] <@smaug> but only once, and I see also other pdf stuff...
# [19:14] <Ms2ger> Sorry Callek :)
# [19:14] <bwalker1> smaug: developers for PDF.js include bdahl, artur, and yury
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# [19:14] <bwalker1> smaug: jviereck has also been contributing to PDF.js
# [19:15] * @smaug re-tests
# [19:15] <AryehGregor> Oh, wait.
# [19:15] <AryehGregor> It was the Chrome PDF viewer breaking the links.
# [19:15] <AryehGregor> They links work.
# [19:15] <Ms2ger> Chrome--
# [19:15] * AryehGregor bets its PDF viewer has fewer bugs than pdf.js ;)
# [19:16] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, so much Chrome hatin'.
# [19:17] <jhammel> that's right ;)
# [19:17] <Ms2ger> A little ;)
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# [19:17] <@smaug> bwalker1: mccr8 ok, wrong alarm, it was the printing thing, which is known
# [19:17] <mccr8> ah okay.
# [19:17] <bwalker1> smaug: ok. we are really interested in a better printing story for PDF.js, that's what jviereck has been thinking about lately
# [19:18] <Ms2ger> I saw that in mdt.layout
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# [19:20] <philor> Ms2ger: what ever happened with your jetpack bustage?
# [19:21] * philor needs to beat the fix for that with his fix for it being red instead of orange
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# [19:21] <Waldo> where's philor when you need him to snark at the newcomer
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# [19:22] <Ms2ger> philor, patch... reviewed, I think
# [19:22] <Ms2ger> I'll look in a minute
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# [19:24] <Waldo> there's no deficiency to using the component-watching functionality over using the QA contact any more, is there? (assuming email prefs for component watching when relation-is-component are set appropriately, that is)
# [19:26] <@khuey> Waldo: dbaron has a list of things that are different
# [19:26] <@khuey> and there are some outstanding, I believe
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# [19:26] <Waldo> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=comp%3Awatching;list_id=2657855 doesn't list anything meaningful, for whatever that's worth
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# [19:29] <fabrice> !seen mayhemer
# [19:29] <firebot> mayhemer was last seen 6 days, 18 hours, 2 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying 'NeilAway: s/handing/hanging/' in #developers.
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# [19:30] <@khuey> hsivonen: ping?
# [19:31] * Waldo stalks dbaron to acquire that list of differences
# [19:31] <Ms2ger> Waldo, it's in the newsgroups somewhere, I think
# [19:32] <Ms2ger> Does it handle telling you about bugs that are moved into your component already?
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# [19:38] <sourabh912> jaws:hi
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# [19:39] <lmandel> jst: Do you have any updates on Snappy work?
# [19:39] <jaws> sourabh912: hi
# [19:39] <AryehGregor> ehsan, why do we have editor.use_css as a pref? Shouldn't the author have control over that, not the user?
# [19:39] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, 'return nsIProgrammingLanguage" rid="5115" class="ref">nsIProgrammingLanguage::JAVASCRIPT;' in DXR :(
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# [19:39] <jaws> sourabh912: kinda busy right now, can you send me an email with any questions you have? jwein+gsoc@mozilla.com
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# [19:40] <@smaug> lmandel: hey, you have Snappy meeting today? could I remind of Bug 728407. It would be great if someone from FF or QA team could test all sorts of scenarios and check whether there are runtime leaks
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# [19:41] <@smaug> (and then we should find people to fix the possible leaks)
# [19:42] <sourabh912> jaws:ok thats fine.
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# [19:43] <lmandel> smaug: I'll look into it.
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# [19:45] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: there's also a command for that
# [19:45] <@ehsan> the pref determines what happens if the author doesn't use the command to request a specific mode
# [19:45] <AryehGregor> Right, I know.
# [19:45] <AryehGregor> Guess it doesn't matter.
# [19:46] <lmandel> smaug: You can add the qa-wanted whiteboard status to get qa help. Can you provide some further details on what specifically you want them to test? A few example scenarios would be great. QA can then work to create a test plan for this issue.
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# [19:47] <@smaug> lmandel: ok, I'll update that bug
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# [19:48] <lmandel> smaug: thx. I added the keyword when I cced myself just now.
# [19:48] <@smaug> lmandel: actually, the first comment says already what to do :)
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# [19:51] <Waldo> Ms2ger: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=731069 seems to suggest it's because moves into/out of a component fall into the "other" bucket
# [19:51] <Waldo> Ms2ger: which I have checked, so I think I'm good
# [19:51] <Waldo> on that point, at least
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# [19:52] <lmandel> smaug: I read the first comment. Doesn't qa have the use the browser to execute code paths in order to find the leaks?
# [19:53] <lmandel> i.e. Is there anything that QA has to be after installing the add-on and running the cycle collector?
# [19:53] <@smaug> lmandel: yes, you run FF, and check occasionally if about:cc shows possibly leaked documents
# [19:53] <@smaug> about:cc has button "Find documents"
# [19:53] <@smaug> in normal cases it shouldn't find any documents
# [19:54] <lmandel> smaug: above you asked qa to "could test all sorts of scenarios and check whether there are runtime leaks". what are the scenarios that you're referring to?
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# [19:55] <@smaug> lmandel: anything. Create a bookmark
# [19:55] <@smaug> open some devtool, and close it
# [19:56] <lmandel> smaug: that's what I mean. Just some guidance for what they should do. Do you expect that there are memory leaks in any specific areas that qa should target?
# [19:56] <@smaug> open sidebar and close it (this one is known to "leak")
# [19:56] <@smaug> lmandel: I don't even know what all functionality Firefox UI has :)
# [19:57] <lmandel> fair enough ;)
# [19:57] <@smaug> especially all the new devtools are strange to me
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# [19:59] <lmandel> smaug: I added a comment to the bug with the examples.
# [19:59] * froydnj watches khuey spam indexeddb bugs
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# [20:01] <@khuey> SPAM ALL THE BUGZ
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# [20:04] <Mark_Capella> NUKE ALL THE WHALES
# [20:04] <Mark_Capella> ooops wrong room
# [20:04] <Mossop> khuey: Why are you clearing the target milestones?
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# [20:05] <sourabh912> jaws:I have sent you mail.Please check whenever you are free.
# [20:05] <@khuey> Mossop: that was bugzilla being dumb
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# [20:09] <pasindur> kdangoor: I would like to get more information on how to participate gsoc on "Browser Compatibility Warnings " under "developer section"
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# [20:10] <pasindur> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode12#Developer_Tools
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# [20:11] <pasindur> does any one know Ian Barlow handle?
# [20:12] <mbrubeck> pasindur: ibarlow
# [20:12] <mbrubeck> pasindur: You can find him in #mobile or #ux
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# [20:15] <pasindur> mbrubeck: thanx
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# [20:16] <jwir3> Is there a way to determine whether a given frame represents the body or html elements without accessing the content tree (i.e. directly from the nsBlockFrame itself)?
# [20:17] <Ms2ger> No
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# [20:18] <jwir3> Ms2ger: k thanks
# [20:18] <Ms2ger> Np
# [20:18] <Ms2ger> Always happy to crush your hopes
# [20:18] <jwir3> heh
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# [20:20] <@smaug> jwir3: well, GetContent() does access content tree, but is that bad?
# [20:20] <Cwiiis> I'm trying to use nsTArray::ReplaceElementAt... Using the same parameters as InsertElementAt, I get a build error saying there's no matching function call to ReplaceElementsAt...
# [20:20] <@smaug> something like GetContent()->IsHTML(nsGkAtoms::body);
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# [20:20] <@khuey> Cwiiis: perhaps because of the extra s?
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# [20:21] <jwir3> smaug: Ok, yeah, I think that will probably work ok.
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# [20:21] <jwir3> smaug: Thanks
# [20:21] <Cwiiis> khuey, that's in the error message, I'm just using ReplaceElementAt
# [20:21] <Cwiiis> khuey, looking at nsTArray.h, it ends up calling ReplaceElementsAt
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# [20:22] <Cwiiis> khuey, I'm confused, as InsertElementAt also seems to end up using ReplaceElementsAt, and that works fine, with the exact same parameters...
# [20:22] <@khuey> Cwiiis: the code might just be broken, it doesn't look like there are any uses in the tree
# [20:22] <Cwiiis> ah.
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# [20:23] <AryehGregor> Argh, editing code is incomprehensible.
# [20:23] <Ms2ger> Truth
# [20:23] <@khuey> Cwiiis: judging by InsertElementAt, I think the third arg to ReplaceElementsAt needs an & in front of it
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# [20:23] <@khuey> in ReplaceElementAt
# [20:23] <AryehGregor> :(
# [20:23] <Ms2ger> ehsan, see, it's not just me
# [20:23] <Cwiiis> khuey, weird, looking at the tree, it looks like the index/item parameters are swapped when it actually gets used...
# [20:24] <AryehGregor> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738385
# [20:24] <AryehGregor> How hard should that be?
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# [20:25] <AryehGregor> But I have to follow a call stack like eight deep from nsHTMLDocument::QueryCommandIndeterm to get anywhere, and then it turns out some of the key part is scattered across a zillion subclasses.
# [20:25] <Cwiiis> though that fails faster, so not sure what's going on there...
# [20:25] <AryehGregor> And of course a million things along the way throw NS_ERROR_FAILURE and I'm not sure which one is the culprit.
# [20:26] <Cwiiis> khuey, oh, of course, you're right about the &, missed that...
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# [20:27] <Ms2ger> If all this stuff used NS_ENSURE_* macros, you'd get a backtrace ;)
# [20:27] <@ehsan> Cwiiis: do you have a question I can answer?
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# [20:28] <Cwiiis> ehsan, I think I'm alright now
# [20:28] <@khuey> Ms2ger++
# [20:28] <@ehsan> ok
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# [20:29] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, is this the NS_ERROR_NOT_IMPLEMENTED or the NS_ERROR_FAILURE you want to fix?
# [20:29] <AryehGregor> NS_ERROR_FAILURE, but I think I found it.
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# [20:30] * AryehGregor just ignores the return value from GetBooleanValue()
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# [20:33] * AryehGregor votes that when adding new mochitests to a Makefile.in, everyone should be encouraged to stick the test randomly somewhere in the middle so we don't get merge conflicts constantly from different people appending to the same list of test files
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# [20:40] <@roc> alphabetical order
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# [20:45] <Ms2ger> numeric order
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# [20:46] <jhammel|lunch> md5 hash order
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# [20:47] <Ms2ger> r-
# [20:47] * jhammel|lunch guesses Ms2ger would prefer SHA1
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# [20:50] <Ms2ger> philor, want to land bug 736752?
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# [20:54] <AryehGregor> Note: screen is not happy if you paste too much.
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# [20:55] <AryehGregor> Then my paste wound up going to the terminal when I killed screen, instead of vim. Hope there was nothing in there that looked like a command. :/
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# [20:59] <Ms2ger> edmorley, he's broken all the target milestone fields :/
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# [21:00] <firebot> Check-in:
# [21:00] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/06a8c2979321 - Mark Banner - Unit test bustage fix for apps that don't have private browsing following bug 728143. Fix incorrect brackets in if statement and a bad function name in the tests. r=bustage
# [21:00] <edmorley> Ms2ger: yeah was just coming to the same conclusion :-(
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# [21:00] <firebot> fix,test-only fix
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# [21:06] <kaie> I'm learning the river on the eastern border of poland is named "bug".
# [21:07] <Ms2ger> humbug
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# [21:10] <jrmuizel> ehsan: https://gist.github.com/2163010
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# [21:26] <sicking> how do I coerce a arbitrary value to a string in JS?
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# [21:26] <sicking> oooh, + ""
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# [21:26] <Ms2ger> String(foo)
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# [21:27] <sicking> even better!
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# [21:33] <Jesse> String(foo) is evil, it creates an object rather than a primitive string
# [21:34] <Jesse> i use ""+s
# [21:34] <Jesse> sicking: ^
# [21:34] <AryehGregor> What's the practical difference to authors?
# [21:35] <Jesse> vladan: what's the relationship between https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=705888 and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712109 ?
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# [21:35] <Jesse> vladan: is this something i can point users (who complain about encountering hangs) at?
# [21:35] <gavin> AryehGregor: when code breaks because you have an object instead of a string, authors might not like it
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# [21:36] <AryehGregor> gavin, what do you mean by "an object instead of a string"?
# [21:36] <AryehGregor> typeof still returns "string", right?
# [21:36] <Jesse> and String is slower
# [21:36] <gavin> AryehGregor: String(1).toSource()
# [21:36] <vladan> Jesse: bug 712109 superceded 705888
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# [21:38] <vladan> Jesse: i don't think that feature is quite ready for end-user support use. The users who encounter *transient* hangs can run our profiling Nightly builds and those will submit their hangs to Telemetry. However, the hang would have to last longer than 10 seconds and the browser would have to run long enough to submit telemetry
# [21:38] <Jesse> vladan: are there instructions somewhere? grab a build from https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/2012/03/2012-03-22-04-02-04-profiling/ and then... ?
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# [21:39] <Jesse> the user i'm thinking of is hitting >10 second hangs
# [21:39] <vladan> Jesse: there'sa bit more info here http://blog.mozilla.com/vdjeric/2012/03/21/introducing-chrome-hang-reporting-and-the-symbolication-server/
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# [21:39] <AryehGregor> gavin, String(1).toSource() and "1".toSource() both return '(new String("1"))' for me in Gecko.
# [21:39] <Jesse> but it's through telemetry rather than crash-stats?
# [21:39] <vladan> Jesse: users wouldn't need to do anything other than run the profiling nightly & opt into Telemetry performance reporting
# [21:40] <Jesse> AryehGregor: weird, uneval() gives different results
# [21:40] <vladan> yes it's submitted through telemetry.. it's a bit tricky to gather Breakpad hang information without crashing the browser. The Breakpad info also has privacy implications and would require user approval
# [21:40] <Jesse> vladan: oh, this only works for transient hangs? i think this one is indefinite
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# [21:41] <vladan> Jesse: that's right, it's mean to help identify causes of browser stalls (snappiness issues)
# [21:42] <vladan> Jesse: however, i just remember that users can already modify their "hangmonitor.timeout" config value to some non-zero interval and that will cause their browser to submit a crash report when it encounters a hang of that duration.. it will also intentionally crash their browser :/
# [21:42] <Jesse> vladan: that works in normal nightlies?
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# [21:43] <vladan> Jesse: it work on current release builds too. I wasn't involved in that functionality
# [21:45] <gavin> AryehGregor: mm, you're right
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# [21:45] <gavin> it appears that there is no object overhead to String() coercion
# [21:45] <gavin> ((new String(1))==="1" is false, String(1)==="1" is true
# [21:46] <gavin> I wonder whether that changed
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# [21:46] <Ms2ger> Doubt it
# [21:47] <AryehGregor> toSource() is nonstandard anyway, right?
# [21:47] <Ms2ger> Yep
# [21:47] <Ms2ger> Also, supported everywhere, IIRC
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# [21:48] <Ms2ger> "When String is called as a function rather than as a constructor, it performs a type conversion."
# [21:48] <evilpie> Ms2ger wrong way around :)
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# [21:48] <Ms2ger> "When String is called as part of a new expression, it is a constructor: it initialises the newly created object."
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# [21:48] <Ms2ger> evilpie, supported nowhere and specced?
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# [21:48] <evilpie> oh didn't read
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# [21:49] <evilpie> not standard and we only have it
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# [21:49] <Ms2ger> Oh?
# [21:49] <Ms2ger> Kill it, then
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# [21:50] <Ms2ger> Also, e4x
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# [21:51] <evilpie> yes
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# [21:51] <evilpie> i think i should ping the newsgroup again if anything changed
# [21:51] <AryehGregor> e4x?
# [21:51] <Ms2ger> XML in JS
# [21:51] <sewardj> bz: who would be a good person to look at 726590 ?
# [21:52] <Ms2ger> sewardj, bent
# [21:52] <evilpie> "ECMAScript for XML" (E4X)
# [21:52] <sewardj> Ms2ger: thx
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# [21:52] <evilpie> basically crackpot
# [21:53] <sicking> Ms2ger: did we ever start getting telemetry data for E4X usage?
# [21:54] <Ms2ger> No idea
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# [21:54] <sicking> luke: you might know. Did we start collecting telemetry data for E4X usage?
# [21:54] <@smaug> sicking: you could look at telemetry data
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# [21:54] <@smaug> oh, interesting telemetry evolution got mad again
# [21:55] <luke> sicking: yes
# [21:55] <luke> its in the simpleMeasurements category
# [21:55] <luke> sicking: # of e4x objects created in content code
# [21:55] <Ms2ger> sewardj, looks like I ccd him earlier :)
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# [21:55] <luke> (which, unfortunately, does not include addons)
# [21:56] <Jesse> Waldo: http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/19721622462/no-matter-how-many-unstoppable-forces-appear-e4x :(
# [21:56] <sicking> luke: hey, if we can disable it in content code that's a huge first step
# [21:57] <luke> sicking: indeed
# [21:57] <@smaug> Jesse: we need similar for sync XHR, and mutation events
# [21:57] <sicking> smaug: where do i go to look at telemetry data? Is it all public?
# [21:57] <@smaug> sicking: I use https://metrics.mozilla.com/pentaho/content/pentaho-cdf-dd/Render?solution=metrics2&path=%2Ftelemetry&file=telemetryEvolution.wcdf
# [21:57] <@smaug> there is also the public thing...
# [21:57] <@smaug> but I can't remember the url
# [21:58] <@smaug> sicking: ask #metrics
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# [22:00] <sourabh912> jaws:hi
# [22:01] <sicking> luke: hmm.. i can't find it
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# [22:02] <luke> sicking: yeah, me neither. i just checked telemetryPing.js and it should be .js.e4x
# [22:02] <sicking> luke: i don't understand the words you just said
# [22:02] <luke> sicking: err, simpleMeasurements.js.e4x
# [22:02] <luke> sicking: of the ping blob
# [22:02] <jaws> sourabh912: hi
# [22:02] <luke> sicking: that turns into the json blob they store
# [22:03] <luke> sicking: this simpleMeasurements data is different than the histograms, though. its just a simple number on each ping packet
# [22:04] <sicking> luke: still equally lost. All i see is things like SIMPLE_MEASURES_FIRSTPAINT
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# [22:04] <luke> sicking: let's ask on #metrics
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# [22:04] <sourabh912> jaws:Thanks for your reply to the email.Can you elaborate a bit about how to implement wifi signal indicator.
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# [22:05] <Jesse> mccr8: last night i "ASSERTION: must be purple", is this bad? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1531758
# [22:06] <Ms2ger> smaug, too ^
# [22:06] <mccr8> Jesse: hmm, let me see. I've never seen that before so I'm not sure what triggers it. ;)
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# [22:08] <jaws> sourabh912: if it needs to be implemented then it won't be part of the GSoC project
# [22:08] <mccr8> Jesse: yes that is bad.
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# [22:08] <Ms2ger> "The dog has been destroyed"
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# [22:08] <Ms2ger> That's not a use of the word "destroyed" I'd heard before
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# [22:09] <@khuey> jaws: I don't need to review your braces
# [22:09] <jaws> Ms2ger: can you rubberstamp this patch? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=608463&action=edit
# [22:09] <jaws> khuey: haha ok thanks
# [22:09] <jaws> Ms2ger: nvm
# [22:09] <Ms2ger> rs=me
# [22:09] <jaws> i just didn't know what to put down for the reviewer
# [22:09] <jaws> hehe thanks
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# [22:09] <Ms2ger> You could use r=sparky
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# [22:10] <sourabh912> jaws:ok but I think you mentioned something about wifi signal indicator in the first conversation.
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# [22:11] <jaws> sourabh912: i thought about it more and it would add too much to the scope of the project
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# [22:13] <sourabh912> jaws:ok
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# [22:13] <AryehGregor> Can someone explain the point of #defines like this to me? http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/editor/composer/src/nsComposerDocumentCommands.cpp#64
# [22:13] <AryehGregor> #define STATE_ENABLED "state_enabled"
# [22:13] <AryehGregor> Why not just use "state_enabled" directly?
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# [22:14] <Ms2ger> Blame Netscape
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# [22:15] <AryehGregor> Especially since some code uses the literal strings . . .
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# [22:15] <@smaug> AryehGregor: using #define makes it less error-prone. No need to copy-paste the string-literal everywhere
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# [22:15] <sourabh912> jaws:Is the knowledge of flexbox model sufficient or I must know some other css layout models.
# [22:15] <AryehGregor> smaug, because there will be a compiler error if you typo, you mean?
# [22:15] <@smaug> oh, some code does use string literal...
# [22:15] <AryehGregor> That makes some sense.
# [22:15] <AryehGregor> And yeah, some code does . . .
# [22:15] <jaws> sourabh912: other CSS layout models are important too
# [22:15] * philor|away is now known as philor
# [22:15] <Mark_Capella> ms2ger: re: "Ship it" bug734023 .... should I ask for checkin-needed? Or can I do this myself now that I have L1 access ... directions please?
# [22:15] <AryehGregor> This is all notwithstanding that the naming here makes no sense.
# [22:15] * jaws is now known as jaws|afk
# [22:16] <Ms2ger> Mark_Capella, checkin-needed
# [22:16] <Mark_Capella> cool
# [22:16] <sicking> luke: did you get a response?
# [22:16] <Ms2ger> Mark_Capella, you need Level 3 to actually land changes to code that will be shipped to half a billion users :)
# [22:17] <Mark_Capella> Ok... I have one sponser lined up for that .... I'll get there later :)
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# [22:19] <sourabh912> jaws|afk:Can you please tell the other required models so that I can gain insight into them.
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# [22:33] <WeirdAl> Hey, guys - there's an undocumented -a option for xpcshell... is that supported?
# [22:34] <WeirdAl> or should I expect it will go away?
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# [22:35] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b9655f07e284 - David Flanagan - Bug 738439 - typo in Webapps.jsm [r=fabrice]
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# [22:41] <Ms2ger> joe, good, because we need to kill off the old canvas2d implementation in 2-3 weeks ;)
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# [22:42] <jwatt> did we recently change something about how we build mac?
# [22:43] <jwatt> I'm seeing a slowdown between two nightlies that don't seem to have changesets that should have cause any slowdown
# [22:43] <jwatt> this is 1-2 days ago
# [22:44] <jwatt> hmm, I guess the mozilla-central/mozilla-inbound merges could be hiding changesets from |hg log|
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# [22:46] <@khuey> Mossop: is pdf.js in Firefox completely unprivileged?
# [22:47] <Mossop> I doubt it
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# [22:47] <Waldo> Jesse: String(foo) returns a string primitive; new String(foo) returns a string object
# [22:47] <@khuey> Mossop: ok, just curious
# [22:47] <Jesse> ok
# [22:47] <@dolske> hmm, I would have guess it was!
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# [22:48] <Mossop> I guess it depends what you mean. I mean it runs bootstrap.js with full privileges
# [22:48] <@dolske> it at least _can_ be... some of the demos were entirely web hosted.
# [22:48] <Mossop> I have no idea what the in-content stuff runs with
# [22:49] <@khuey> ok
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# [22:50] <@dolske> Mossop: didn't you review it? :)
# [22:50] <Ms2ger> So?
# [22:50] <Mossop> Bits of it
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# [22:51] <Waldo> pdf.js runs privileged
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# [22:51] <NeilAway> Jesse: not true, new String(foo) creates an object, but String(foo) does not
# [22:51] <Ms2ger> What I said
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# [22:51] <@khuey> Waldo: that seems less than desirable
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# [22:52] <josh> Waldo: maybe I'm missing some context, but why would we run pdf.js privileged?
# [22:52] <NeilAway> oh, Ms2ger got there
# [22:52] * NeilAway is only an hour late
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# [22:52] <jhammel> yeah, but no one listens to Ms2ger
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# [22:52] <Waldo> khuey, josh: yeah; I tink you can also see bugzilla
# [22:53] <kwierso> Pepsi moving to versionless releases: http://www.ajc.com/business/pepsi-to-roll-out-1383321.html
# [22:53] <Waldo> jhammel: who?
# [22:53] <Mossop> Can't wait for Pepsi Next Next Next
# [22:53] <jhammel> Mossop: ah, so its a linked list now ;)
# [22:53] <jhammel> Waldo: sorry, typo ;)
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# [22:57] <jgilbert> would switching from msvc 9 to 10 have any appreciable effect on compile times?
# [22:57] <@khuey> I doubt it
# [22:57] <@khuey> wouldn't surprise me if it made opt builds slower
# [22:58] <NeilAway> jhammel: yeah, I see Waldo repeated it too
# [22:58] <jgilbert> alright, oh well
# [22:58] * NeilAway wonders which bits Mossop reviewed
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# [23:00] <NeilAway> Mossop: for instance I didn't like they way they use fuelIApplication.prefs instead of extIApplication.prefs or Services.prefs :s
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# [23:02] <Mossop> khuey: I think aside from the streamconverter bits it'll be running with content privileges
# [23:02] <@khuey> ok
# [23:02] <@khuey> that's what I would like :-)
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# [23:04] <NeilAway> bah, no mak
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# [23:09] <jdm> where do I file a bug about a newsgroup not showing any content versus the google group?
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# [23:10] <mcsmurf> isn't there a newsgroup category in mozilla.org product?
# [23:11] <jdm> I don't see it
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# [23:11] <mcsmurf> I would file in Server Operations then
# [23:11] <fabrice> jdm: no propagation nntp -> groups ?
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# [23:12] <fabrice> there is bug 716007
# [23:12] <mcsmurf> well, there's "Discussion Groups"
# [23:12] <jdm> fabrice: the opposite.
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# [23:12] <fabrice> jdm: so bug 716007 I think
# [23:12] <jdm> mcsmurf: where do you see that?
# [23:12] <mcsmurf> the category?
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# [23:13] <mcsmurf> well, I tried to file a bug ;)
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# [23:13] <jdm> fabrice: but google groups shows all the messages, and the nntp shows none
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# [23:13] <jdm> mcsmurf: I don't see a Discussion Groups anywhere
# [23:13] <mcsmurf> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=mozilla.org
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# [23:13] <jdm> ...
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# [23:13] <jdm> oh
# [23:13] <mcsmurf> whoa
# [23:13] <fabrice> jdm: I heard that google was rewriting their nntp <-> groups bridge
# [23:13] <mcsmurf> it's Discussions Forums
# [23:13] <jdm> I swear I scanned that list 5 times at least
# [23:13] <mcsmurf> you're right :)
# [23:13] <mcsmurf> -s
# [23:14] <jdm> yeah, found it
# [23:14] <mcsmurf> but Discussion part was right ;)
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# [23:20] <bwalker> josh Waldo: i thought as part of the AMO review process we made almost all the pdf.js code run without priviledges, it shouldn't need them
# [23:20] <@khuey> bwalker: my five second check indicated that it is running without privileges
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# [23:23] * Waldo looks
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# [23:24] <AryehGregor> ehsan, why is nsICommandParams a map whose keys are arbitrary strings? Are there really arbitrary things that get stuck in it, or only a fixed set of keys?
# [23:24] <AryehGregor> I see state_enabled, _all, _any, _mixed, _begin, _end, _attribute, _data . . . are there any others?
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# [23:25] <mcot_> anyone know what would cause flash to run like crap on a new ff build... I'm getting the entire browser hanging for 20-30s on pages with flash vs no hanging with the same flash player on a clean install
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# [23:26] <Waldo> oh, oops, misread things, the actual issue I was thinking of was only an XSS, not a chrome exploit, sorry for the mistake
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# [23:27] <mcsmurf> mcot_: which OS?
# [23:28] <mcsmurf> (not that I know anything about recent perf problems ;)
# [23:28] <mcot_> win 7 64 bit os but my build is 32 bit
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# [23:28] <mcot_> im building esr 10 by the way
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# [23:29] <@khuey> esr?
# [23:29] <@khuey> we don't support that
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# [23:31] <dholbert> khuey, what does the "s" in ESR stand for again? :)
# [23:31] <mcot_> extended support release right?
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# [23:31] * dholbert suspects khuey was kidding
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# [23:31] <@khuey> dholbert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk
# [23:32] <dholbert> :D
# [23:32] <jgilbert> Welp, guessed that video right. :p
# [23:32] <@khuey> haha
# [23:32] <mcot_> I'm building it so I doubt thats the kind of support they are talking about :)
# [23:32] <mcsmurf> could also be Firefox expired support release
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# [23:33] <mcsmurf> so anyway, which build did you update from?
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# [23:34] <mcsmurf> and does your problem also happen with an official build from ftp.mozilla.org?
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# [23:36] <mcot_> is there a good way to profile on windows?
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# [23:36] <mcot_> just want to see where its spending time as it hangs
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# [23:37] <mcsmurf> poor man's profiler: Attach Visual Studio, use the break button every second :-]
# [23:37] <mwu> mcot_: https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Profiling_with_Xperf
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# [23:38] <mcot_> excellent thanks
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# [23:38] <@khuey> yeah, good luck
# [23:38] <@khuey> xperf is hard
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# [23:39] <jhammel> *and* annoying
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# [23:39] <mwu> it's ok if you're doing IO stuff - sdwilsh already figured out what magic you should do there
# [23:39] <mwu> for everything else, good luck!
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# [23:41] <mcot_> yah something is very screwy here
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# [23:41] <mcot_> in process monitor i see it creating the plugin-container process multiple times
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# [23:43] <mcot_> Only thing I see changing on each process create is the channel: -channel=5868.bd5e2f8.1260637281 "C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macrome ...
# [23:44] <mcot_> I'm not really familiar with how plugins load
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# [23:45] <mcsmurf> as said, if you want to find out when/why this happens I'd rather check
# [23:45] <mcsmurf> in which timeframe this broke
# [23:45] <mcsmurf> as then we can look up what code changed in that timeframe
# [23:45] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: well you could register your own command manager and use arbitrary param values, right?
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# Session Close: Fri Mar 23 00:00:01 2012

The end :)