/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-03-24 / end

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# Session Start: Sat Mar 24 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [00:16] <Waldo> anyone have access to a recent copy of IE10?
# [00:17] <Waldo> just need to know what the behavior is when you type |new DataView(Object.create(new ArrayBuffer(8)))| into http://www.squarefree.com/shell/shell.html
# [00:17] <gavin> aren't all copies of IE10 recent?
# [00:17] <Waldo> well, I have an IE10 platform preview circa September that's not recent
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# [00:25] <mbrubeck> September? That's like, 5 firefox versions ago!
# [00:25] <jhammel> IE's falling behind ;)
# [00:26] <jhammel> "I remember the days when IE had a higher version than Firefox..."
# [00:26] <Mossop> The real reason behind our versioning scheme is revealed!
# [00:27] <jgilbert_> #whatatwist
# [00:27] <Waldo> we should have just not hit 1.0, kept going with 0.10, 0.11, 0.12, etc. until people just ignored the 0.
# [00:27] <jhammel> so the real reason behind android's versioning scheme is that they like frozen dairy desserts? ;)
# [00:27] <Mossop> Who doesn't!
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# [00:27] <jgilbert_> desserts *are* tasty
# [00:27] <jhammel> lactose intollerent people? ;)
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# [00:28] <jgilbert_> lactose iNtollerence, you say? :)
# [00:28] <jhammel> i think we should have just used that base-1 versioning scheme
# [00:28] <Waldo> jhammel: I don't think we should tolerate intolerant people like that
# [00:28] <jhammel> Firefox 1; Firefox 11; Firefox 111...
# [00:28] <Waldo> no more intolerant people!
# [00:28] * jhammel isn't sure if he can tolerate that
# [00:29] <jgilbert_> intolerance of intolerance, oh my
# [00:29] <jgilbert_> but two wrongs make a right, so I suppose it's fine
# [00:29] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5ff4f574298e - Frank Yan - Bug 731546 - Add link to marketplace on about:home. r=mak
# [00:29] <jhammel> i thought three lefts made a right?
# [00:29] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/4173214920c3 - Tim Taubert - Bug 705911 - [Page Thumbnails] Save screenshots of redirecting sites; r=dao
# [00:29] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/8bc3c696e0a7 - Gavin Sharp - merge fx-team into m-c
# [00:29] <Waldo> my IE10 request still stands, fwiw -- also I could use the results for |Object.create(new DataView(new ArrayBuffer(8))).setUint8(2, 5)| as well
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# [00:29] * Waldo wonders if fryn and his 8 tablet of sorts are around at all
# [00:30] <jgilbert_> lefts are 2/3s of wrongs?
# [00:30] <Waldo> left is right if you're dyslexic
# [00:30] <jhammel> jgilbert_++
# [00:30] <jhammel> Waldo: or rotated across the 4th dimesional axis
# [00:30] <jgilbert_> I guess that's why UPS hates left turns
# [00:30] * jhammel is pleasantly surprised that this is the second conversation he's had today involving 4th dimensional geometry
# [00:31] <jgilbert_> it raises the question, though. Why do we have protected 2/3s-wrong turns?
# [00:31] <jhammel> jgilbert_: talk to your congressperson ;)
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# [00:32] <jgilbert_> should probably submit it to timecube
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# [00:38] <mbrubeck> I have a hard time checking https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try ... I always get the overwhelming urge to back everything out.
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# [00:39] <Waldo> </mozillameme>
# [00:44] <Kwan> Waldo: got IE 10 in a VM, give me a minute
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# [00:46] <Kwan> Waldo: "TypeError: Required argument arrayBuffer in DataView method is not specified"
# [00:47] <Waldo> Kwan: excellent, thanks!
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# [00:47] <Waldo> so IE10 is sane (on that point)
# [00:47] <Waldo> boo-urns chrome
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# [00:48] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/1699897f0c05 - Vivien Nicolas - Bug 736193 - Use the offline cache to load applications [r=fabrice] DONTBUILD because NPOTB
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# [00:54] <bholley> is there something special one has to do to run a11y mochitests?
# [00:55] <@khuey> make -C objdir mochitest-a11y?
# [00:56] <bholley> khuey: I get JavaScript error: chrome://mochikit/content/server.js, line 557: linkArray is undefined
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# [00:56] <bholley> khuey: which usually means I passed the wrong TEST_PATH
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# [00:56] <bholley> khuey: but in this case I'm not passing one
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# [00:57] <dholbert> bholley, if all else fails, you can check the command that the test boxes run
# [00:57] <dholbert> they might always manually pass TEST_PATH=foo when running mochitest-a11y, or something
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# [00:58] <NeilAway> it just goes to show how long it is since I last read a review mail (normally I just use the queue) - I see the splinter link now wastes yet more space ;-)
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# [00:59] <bholley> dholbert: they don't appear to...
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# [00:59] <bholley> dholbert: the whole mochitest on tinderbox setup is kind of wacky anyway
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# [01:05] <bholley> khuey: oh hm, do I need to do something special to build with a11y period?
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# [01:05] <dholbert> bholley, you need to build without --disable-accessibility
# [01:05] <bholley> dholbert: I don't do that
# [01:05] <bholley> dholbert:
# [01:05] <dholbert> bholley, (cool, n/m then)
# [01:05] <bholley> dholbert: er, I don't build with --disable-accessibility
# [01:06] <bholley> dholbert: but when I do make -C accessible, I get a compile error
# [01:06] <bholley> dholbert: which doesn't inspire confidence
# [01:06] <dholbert> hub, ping?
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# [01:07] <dholbert> (perhaps hub knows how to run a11y mochitests locally?)
# [01:07] <bholley> dholbert: well, I discovered that the issue was that the a11y tests hadn't been installed, because the default build never did make in /accessible
# [01:07] <dholbert> ah
# [01:08] <bholley> dholbert: and I can install them, with make -C accessible/tests
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# [01:08] <bholley> dholbert: but they fail, presumably because accessibility isn't being build
# [01:08] <bholley> dholbert: and when I make -C accessible, I get a compile error
# [01:08] <bholley> dholbert: is that what you get?
# [01:08] <dholbert> bholley, I build with --disable-accessibility, so I don't have a useful build for comparison right now
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# [01:08] <bholley> dholbert: ah
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# [01:09] <@khuey> bholley: are you on mac?
# [01:09] <bholley> khuey: yes
# [01:09] <@khuey> bholley: --disable-accessibility is the default on mac, last I checked
# [01:09] <bholley> khuey: doh
# [01:10] <bholley> khuey: ok, thanks
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# [01:13] <mbrubeck> Oh good, we have timecube.com in hg now: https://hg.mozilla.org/build/talos/rev/e5f45d8d1ef0
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# [01:15] <dholbert> hooray
# [01:16] <dholbert> I'm always saying, the problem with timecube.com is that I can't track its revisions
# [01:16] <dholbert> Problem solved
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# [01:28] <darktrojan> firebot, uuid
# [01:28] <firebot> 60a05de9-724a-4999-8faa-650a6123f561 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
# [01:29] <darktrojan> firebot, botsnack
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# [01:29] <firebot> :)
# [01:30] <Sirisian> cpearce, Curious. Do you think mozilla and other implementors would be willing at add a suggestion for fullscreen video to allow it to run accross monitors as a per domain security setting? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=706555 <-- I was talking to someone and they linked me this bug. The person in question found having it an about:config option was unintuitive and unnecessary. I guess the explanation of: "This i
# [01:30] <Sirisian> s intentional. We exit fullscreen upon window "deactivate" (losing app focus) to ensure that a malicious web page can't pretend to be your desktop background." was a bit "silly" in his view. Has anyone else commented about this?
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# [01:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/df1f94b2bdee - Serge Gautherie - Bug 604266. (Cv1) Remove MOZ_INSTALLER support. r=ted.mielczarek.
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# [01:39] <darktrojan> Sirisian, FYI it's Saturday for cpearce
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# [01:41] <Sirisian> ah. I'm doing more research on the topic atm.
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# [01:56] <cpearce> Sirisian: If a website goes fullscreen, it can pretend to be your desktop system, popup a fake virus warning "download the fix now!" and then people will get owned. And what behaviour do you expect when the user's second/third/n'th monitor is a different size to the primary monitor?
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# [01:56] <Sirisian> That can happen with any fullscreen system.
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# [01:57] <Sirisian> I'd expect that it would stay fullscreen in that window as the user works on something else?
# [01:58] <clever> cpearce: 99% of the time i get those fake popups, they have the default windows xp theme on the window
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# [01:58] <clever> i run linux, so its clearly fake :P
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# [01:58] <cpearce> 40% of our users run XP. So not clearly fake for them.
# [01:58] <Sirisian> I mean you don't need fullscreen to do that.
# [01:59] <clever> and firefox still shows links in the status bar when you point at them
# [01:59] <cpearce> They also tend to be the easier to fool users.
# [01:59] <Sirisian> With that logic you shouldn't allow any images on a webpage :\
# [01:59] <clever> and firefox itself should still warn you after you download virus.exe
# [01:59] <clever> and windows will probly complain again that it came from an unsafe source
# [01:59] <clever> even if they can start a download, windows should properly complain when you try to run it
# [02:00] <Sirisian> That's why I suggested a per domain security warning. Non-normative text would be added to the specification saying that a warning could be displayed to allow the hidden boolean to be set per domain. Much like pointer lock defines its spec
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# [02:03] <Sirisian> I'm more thinking about all implementations though. So someone can sit down at a computer for instance as a university lab and have video in one window and other things in another window without going into about:config to find a flag. As my friend said: "It's something I have to change on each and every profile I'm on, over like a dozen machines."
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# [02:03] <Sirisian> He followed that with 'No need. The response will be "there's a setting for it / there's an addon for it / you're wrong, there's nothing wrong, lol".' :P
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# [02:40] <cpearce> We need to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Your friend can use Sync to share the same profile across multiple machines. "lol".
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# [02:51] <Sirisian> "Why would I want anything shared between my work machine and different home desktops and my road warrior box?" "Running rather different firefox versions, depending on box."
# [02:51] <Sirisian> I think it's more of a convenience thing.
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# [02:52] <Sirisian> I'm writing a change to the spec. I'm gonna see if the w3 editors will add some non-normative recommendations for security stuff.
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# [03:02] <Sirisian> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/post_bug.cgi
# [03:02] <Sirisian> er...
# [03:02] <Sirisian> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16502
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# [03:51] <ewong> is xpcom/idl-parser/xpidllex.py needed during |make -f client.mk|?
# [03:52] <darktrojan> no, it is generated
# [03:52] <darktrojan> delete it, and its mate xpidlyacc.py
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# [03:53] <ewong> darktrojan: I'm getting a build error "make[8]: *** No rule to make target `../../../xpcom/idl-parser/xpidllex.py', needed by `libs'. Stop."
# [03:54] <darktrojan> hm. that's different from other recent problems with it
# [03:54] <mattwoodrow> I think you were only supposed to delete the pyc file
# [03:55] <ewong> yeah... this xpid issue is frustrating... it's either del *.pyc, or delete the xpidllex.py/xpidlyacc.py..
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# [03:55] <ewong> mattwoodrow: there's a bug that says that those two files also need to be deleted... but now I'm getting a conflicting situation that they aren't supposed to be deleted..
# [03:56] <ewong> oh screw it.. blowing the mozilla directory and redoing this
# [03:56] <darktrojan> hmm they're still listed as garbage in the makefile
# [03:57] <darktrojan> ewong, you could try regenerating them manually https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/df1f94b2bdee/xpcom/idl-parser/Makefile.in
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# [04:02] <darktrojan> firebot, cid
# [04:03] <firebot> {0x96973b24, 0xedef, 0x476b, {0x9a, 0x58, 0x22, 0xc2, 0x06, 0x80, 0x11, 0x4a}}
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# [04:10] <darktrojan> yay, I love spending 5 minutes linking only to segfault on startup
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# [04:13] <kwierso> do it again, them!
# [04:13] <kwierso> :)
# [04:13] <darktrojan> I may already be
# [04:14] <ewong> well it's better than taking 2 1/2 hrs building only to crash on startup
# [04:14] <ewong> man I need a new machine...
# [04:14] <darktrojan> nah, I'm not in tryserver territory
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# [04:17] <darktrojan> kwierso, aw, it worked :(
# [04:17] <darktrojan> heh
# [04:17] <kwierso> damn
# [04:18] <darktrojan> at least now I know that it was caused by my shonky knowledge of c++
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# [05:07] <hub> dholbert|afk: make mochitest-a11y
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# [05:13] <reed> I can't decide if I should just wontfix bug 738880 immediately or actually let somebody from the UX team give some long explanation about why that color choice is wrong.
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# [05:15] <ewong> "bright pink"???
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# [05:16] <ewong> then again.. who am I to argue with UX expert?
# [05:17] <reed> ewong: indeed ;)
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# [05:56] <kwierso> philor++ for being awesome :)
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# [06:31] <philor> RyanVM++ really - not having to even have inbound open for a few hours is such a gift
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# [06:57] <kwierso> philor: so I'm not really up on how things work with buildbot's repository. does that checked-in+ in bug 734223 mean the next m-c push will fix the jetpack tests on tbpl, or is that waiting for some push from the repository to the actual server?
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# [06:58] <philor> kwierso: it means that next Monday or Tuesday some releng person, probably whoever is buildduty next week, will merge that from the default branch to the production branch, and then tell every buildbot master to reconfig, and depending on who it is will then comment on the bug saying it's live or won't, and then it'll be fixed
# [06:59] <kwierso> philor: gotcha, thanks
# [07:00] <philor> the only thing that happens right away is /build/tools/, so changes to run_jetpack.py are immediate because the slaves check out the repo every time, but the buildbot repos take time
# [07:01] <kwierso> but then you're deleting run_jetpack.py in that other bug, right?
# [07:01] * kwierso really shouldn't be reading bugmail on 2 hours of sleep from a day back
# [07:01] <philor> you better hope not, since that's the active one, you better hope I deleted run_jetpack.sh :)
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# [07:02] <kwierso> oh god, they have the same filename? :|
# [07:03] <philor> .sh, a shell script that did it at first, .py, the rewrite in Python to be more fun to work on
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# [07:04] <philor> totally different, nobody could confuse them
# [07:04] <philor> oh, well, I guess I'm finally doing the rm because someone did
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# [07:05] <kwierso> still haven't managed to get an all-green run on https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Jetpack :(
# [07:05] <kwierso> stupid windows slaves, being all "lol I can't delete that"
# [07:06] <philor> that was about the, hmm, probably third reason and third time that I hid the Win64 tests on m-c
# [07:07] <philor> not necessarily a recommendation that you hide their sorry, worthless, unsupported ass, just... I wouldn't look at them
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# [07:07] <kwierso> but just once, I want to look at a push on that page and see nothing but green :(
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# [07:08] <kwierso> then I can know that it's all downhill from there :)
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# [07:12] <philor> I had a screenshot of my first all-green push on my desktop for years
# [07:12] <philor> back in the easy-to-get pre-Android days, to be sure
# [07:14] <kwierso> I'm just glad that getting sdk tests running on mobile (let alone getting actual addons to run...) is still such a pain in the ass that they don't seem to be testing that at all
# [07:15] <kwierso> s/glad/ohmygodthedaythosegetturnedonwillbehorrifying/
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# [08:14] <philor> kwierso: alas for you, your Windows problems are not actually bug 692715, they're closer to part of bug 659478 (the part where you guys find some way to bulletproof shutil.rmtree() on Windows, with MPL-licensed code, and then I copy-paste it to run_jetpack.py)
# [08:15] <philor> since the fix for 659478 is to use a native program rather than msys's rm, which isn't going to help those shutil.rmtree calls one bit
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# [08:25] <darktrojan> oh hell
# [08:26] <darktrojan> just discovered that I've been waiting 5 minutes to link every time I change this, only to discover I don't need to
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# [08:41] <philor> hmm, https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=10341754&tree=Mozilla-Inbound#error0
# [08:41] <philor> the screenshot shows a connection reset error page, for https://example.com
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# [08:42] <philor> did we break the proxy? did we break httpd.js?
# [08:42] <darktrojan> did we break networking?
# [08:45] <philor> are we trying way too hard to break my habit of sleeping sometimes?
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# [09:26] * Ms2ger pushes
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# [09:28] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/9fdfd263167b - Ms2ger - Bug 734724 - Inline nsIScriptContext::ConnectToInner into its only caller; r=jst
# [09:28] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/d78e842b5973 - Ms2ger - Bug 738771 - Outparamdel nsEditor::GetDocument(); r=ehsan
# [09:29] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/53ed280cc94b - Ms2ger - Bug 734029 - Move nsJSContext::{Set,Create}OuterObject to nsGlobalWindow; r=bholley
# [09:29] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f1c738169b20 - Ms2ger - No bug - Remove always-true comparison.
# [09:29] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/743f5158bd1a - Ms2ger - Bug 736619 - remove the unused struct ClearedGlobalObject from XPCJSRuntime; r=bholley
# [09:29] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/7f9b3c618dae - Peter Van der Beken - Bug 738593 - Rename IsProxy to IsDOMBinding; r=mrbkap
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# [09:36] <Berky> Anybody having trouble connecting to mozilla.dev.apps.firefox?
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# [11:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/ae8de2241732 - ffxbld - Automated blocklist update from host linux-ix-slave38
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# [11:30] <Mark_Capella> Here's a new one ... I built out some changes to FF for - Bug 738380 - Remove nsINode::GetScriptTypeID/SetScriptTypeID
# [11:30] <Mark_Capella> Builds ok, but crashes during startup ...
# [11:30] <Mark_Capella> If I watch WIN Task manager I see WERFAULT.EXE start and stop so I know >something bad< is happening ...
# [11:30] <Mark_Capella> Anyone know first steps for resolution?
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# [12:28] * hsivonen finds an argument named "anErrorCode"
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# [12:33] <Ms2ger`> In the old HTML parser?
# [12:35] <hsivonen> Ms2ger`: of course
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# [12:36] <Ms2ger> I was looking at that just yesterday
# [12:38] <Mark_Capella> ms2ger: not sure how busy you are ... I feedback+'d you earlier on Bug 738380 - Remove nsINode::GetScriptTypeID/SetScriptTypeID
# [12:38] <Mark_Capella> was about to drop off ... I can wait ... or come back later
# [12:38] <Ms2ger> Mark_Capella, I'm building your patch
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# [12:38] <Mark_Capella> oh :)
# [12:39] <Mark_Capella> just saw you ... was getting ready to catnap ... I'd rather hang for a bit
# [12:42] <Mark_Capella> WIN7's WERFAULT points to something called "application experience" ... maybe related ... maybe not ... still looking
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# [12:45] <Ms2ger> Hmm, doesn't crash here :(
# [12:46] <Mark_Capella> get out ! ok ... lemme do a clobber I guess
# [12:46] <Mark_Capella> (and dont doing a crash is a :)
# [12:47] <Ms2ger> As long as you don't crash either :)
# [12:48] <hsivonen> hg keeps telling me my push would create a new remove head even though I've run hg strip --no-backup 'roots(outgoing())'
# [12:48] <hsivonen> what to do?
# [12:48] <hsivonen> s/remove/remote/
# [12:48] <Ms2ger> Pastebin?
# [12:48] <Mark_Capella> ah hell - ill even start from a WIN7 shutdown first ...
# [12:48] <Mark_Capella> back later .... maybe itll clear on its own
# [12:48] <Ms2ger> See you
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# [12:49] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1532901
# [12:49] <hsivonen> oh. dao just pushed
# [12:50] <hsivonen> but outgoing didn't warn me
# [12:50] <Ms2ger> Ah, no, outgoing wouldn't tell you that
# [12:50] <jfkthame> outgoing wouldn't, but incoming ought to
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# [12:50] <hsivonen> ok. that makes outgoing not so useful
# [12:51] <jfkthame> outgoing is crucial to confirm what patches you're going to push
# [12:51] <hsivonen> would be nice it if said something about new remote heads, too
# [12:51] * jfkthame routinely does "hg incoming" right before "hg qfin -a; hg push ...."
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# [12:52] <Ms2ger> Morning Ed
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# [12:56] <edmorley> good morning Ms2ger :-)
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# [13:07] <mak> hm Thread 0 (crashed)
# [13:07] <mak> 0 xul.dll!nsHttpPipeline::IsDone() [nsHttpPipeline.cpp:9094735bcb46 : 634 + 0xd]
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# [13:17] <Ms2ger> RyanVM++
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# [13:20] <Ms2ger> Hmm, foreignObject-display-01.svg
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# [13:27] <mak> bah, oranges growth is depressing
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# [13:27] <Ms2ger> "They're entitled to the compensation they're entitled to"
# [13:28] <Ms2ger> This guy should join the tautology club
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# [13:43] <Jesse> The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club.
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# [13:49] <Ms2ger> Correct
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# [14:32] <Tobbi> Can anyone remind me: Why do we return "function" here: typeof(document.createElement("object")) ?
# [14:32] <Tobbi> Shouldn't it be "object" ?
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# [14:33] <Tobbi> (typeof(document.createElement("div")) returns object.
# [14:33] <Ms2ger> Plugins
# [14:33] <Tobbi> huh?
# [14:34] <Ms2ger> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-iframe-element.html#dom-object-caller
# [14:34] <Tobbi> Ah ok.
# [14:35] <Tobbi> OK, makes sense then.
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# [14:37] <Ms2ger> As much sense as something on the web can make, I guess
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# [14:45] <sheppy> Which is very, very little.
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# [15:44] <edmorley> mbrubeck: was going to do a merge, anything you've seen so far that would cause problems?
# [15:45] <Ms2ger> The fact that every other Moth leaks? :)
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# [15:45] <edmorley> yeah but m-c's doing that too... :-(
# [15:46] <mak> maybe Ms2ger was volunteering to close the trees, fix the leak, and reopen :)
# [15:46] <Ms2ger> I can do the first
# [15:46] <Ms2ger> Well, I can ask edmorley to do the first
# [15:46] <philor> the fact that the PSM timeouts in Win M5 look like we broke something big and hard, like httpd.js or networking
# [15:46] <mak> not really useful without the rest
# [15:47] <mbrubeck> edmorley: Looks okay; we should know for sure in a few minutes whether the new Win PGO orange on 4c2c3a714ebe is intermittent...
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# [15:47] <Ms2ger> mcmanus touched a lot of networking lately, but that's on m-c already
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# [15:48] <mak> for sure there's a new crash in pipelining, filed a bug today
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# [15:50] <mbrubeck> TBPL feature request: Pressing control+enter in the comment form should submit the form.
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# [15:50] <mbrubeck> I can probably implement that myself... *goes to find the tbpl source*
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# [15:50] <philor> yeah, we take feature requests via hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/users/mstange_themasta.com/tinderboxpushlog/
# [15:51] <mbrubeck> thanks
# [15:51] <mak> is there a keyboard shortcut to retrigger the selected test?
# [15:51] <mak> without having to click the nice + icon?
# [15:52] <mak> I accept even a ctrl+alt+shift+win+R :)
# [15:52] <Ms2ger> mak, hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/users/mstange_themasta.com/tinderboxpushlog/
# [15:52] <philor> nope, tbsaunde made retrigger tabbable, but a shortcut didn't look like fun, I forget why
# [15:52] <Ms2ger> accesskey?
# [15:53] <mak> well, actually the real annoying thing is when you have to retrigger multiple things, and have to click each one
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# [16:15] <philor> yeah, accesskey would be easy, just add it to http://hg.mozilla.org/users/mstange_themasta.com/tinderboxpushlog/file/962932eba448/js/UserInterface.js#l1477, but a single key operating on multiple selected jobs would be more tbpllike
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# [16:21] <philor> huh, how did bug 724309 get rebroken on inbound, only on 10.6 opt?
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# [16:22] <philor> it's fine on 9094735bcb46, bustage lands and gets backed out, on the backout and the next time we managed to get a Mac slave it's busted
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# [16:36] <sourabh912> jaws:hi
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# [16:52] <mbrubeck> filed my TBPL keyboard shortcut patches at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738925
# [16:53] <mbrubeck> My other (harder) feature request is to have TBPL mark bugs that it didn't originally suggest
# [16:53] <mbrubeck> Perhaps it could even have a search form that used https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/query.cgi?format=instant
# [16:55] <philor> the hardest part of that is that it lets any arbitrary person or bot in the world comment on any bug in bmo as tbplbot
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# [16:57] <mbrubeck> Maybe I should just write a Firefox extension to do it client-side.
# [16:57] <mbrubeck> Use awesomebar search to look up bug numbers, then automatically submit the comments to TBPL and Bugzilla
# [16:58] <mbrubeck> Or maybe we should have fewer hard-to-star orange bugs. ;-)
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# [17:00] <mbrubeck> edmorley: Still thinking of doing a merge? If not, I could do one.
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# [17:03] <edmorley> mbrubeck: sure, 4c2c3a714ebe perhaps?
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# [17:04] <mbrubeck> yeah, that's the one I was eyeing
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# [17:15] <mbrubeck> edmorley: Want any help marking bugs? I can work from the tip down...
# [17:15] <edmorley> mbrubeck: nah it's ok, enjoy your weekend :-) (thanks for the offer though)
# [17:16] <mbrubeck> heh
# [17:16] <mbrubeck> I woke up before my family, so I'm just sitting around writing TBPL patches. :)
# [17:16] <Callek> mbrubeck: TBPL patches !!! YAY
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# [17:16] <edmorley> \o/
# [17:16] <edmorley> I should file a few other improvement ideas I've jotted down
# [17:18] <Callek> mbrubeck: out of curiosity, how hard would it be conceptually to do either of the following (a) allow "trees" to not be a 1:1 matchup of repo's [so we can, for example have a xulrunner tree] and/or (b) *allow* different data sources (for things like buildAPI/etc, such that in theory SeaMonkey and Firefox could both have that data available without needing to share the buildapi server
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# [17:21] <mbrubeck> Callek: I have no idea. I just submitted my first-ever patches to TBPL about 20 minutes ago.
# [17:22] <mbrubeck> and they only touched the jQuery front-end code, which is well inside my comfort zone. :)
# [17:23] <mak> edmorley++++++
# [17:23] <edmorley> :-)
# [17:23] <mak> it's all the day I want to merge, but in the end passed most of it writing history tests
# [17:24] <mak> though, I don't regret that since should slightly improve autocomplete results
# [17:24] <Ms2ger> As long as they aren't flaky... ;)
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# [17:25] <mak> luckily there aren't many random failing places tests... part the famouse test_IHistory.cpp :(
# [17:26] <mak> these tests are used to mixed sync/async stuff
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# [17:27] * mak goes baking some pizza
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# [17:31] <edmorley> mmm pizza
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# [17:35] <Ms2ger> Late lunch?
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# [17:40] <sheppy> What a coincidence; we're having pizza at our hack day.
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# [17:43] <Ms2ger> Wasn't MOZ_UPDATER removed?
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# [17:46] <sfink> mbrubeck: did you have a particular reason for picking philor as the reviewer? The usual reviewers are arpad and mstange. (I see 8 r=philor vs 147 r=mstange)
# [17:47] <skbohra123> hello everyone
# [17:47] <Ms2ger> Is that 147 patches authored by philor? :)
# [17:47] <skbohra123> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=417952
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# [17:48] <skbohra123> this bug still exists and is very annoying
# [17:48] <skbohra123> but needs just 1 line of code to fix it
# [17:48] <sfink> Ms2ger: if you want to be exact, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1533087 :)
# [17:48] <skbohra123> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/599846/comments/11 this is solution
# [17:49] <skbohra123> any developer around, who can look into it or point me to right direction
# [17:50] <sfink> though to be complete, here are the authors: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1533092
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# [17:50] <mbrubeck> skbohra123: looking...
# [17:51] <skbohra123> mbrubeck: the bug in nautilus has been removed https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632427 so all we need to do now is to pass the full file path with file name when user clicks "open containing folder"
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# [17:53] <mbrubeck> skbohra123: I think the code there is https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpcom/io/nsLocalFileUnix.cpp#1819
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# [17:54] <mbrubeck> skbohra123: But we might also need to make sure it still works in older versions of Nautilus...
# [17:54] <mak|afk> Ms2ger: no, it's for tomorrow
# [17:54] <mbrubeck> skbohra123: I'll comment in the bug.
# [17:54] <skbohra123> mbrubeck: cool
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# [17:55] <skbohra123> hope to get rid of it soon
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# [18:19] <kaareal> hey there trying to figure out how debug my webapp, its leaking a lot of memory and i was there wondering what options i got ... about:memory i dont understand doesnt seems to be target at webdev
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# [18:20] <ankitgoel> hey everyone...
# [18:20] <ankitgoel> i am new to irc... am i connected???
# [18:22] <mbrubeck> ankitgoel: Yes!
# [18:22] <mbrubeck> welcome
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# [18:22] <mbrubeck> kaareal: Chrome has some memory-debugging tools: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/05/chrome-developer-tools-put-javascript.html
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# [18:23] <kaareal> yeah the problem its kind of ok in chrome, its very more visible in ff
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# [18:25] <kaareal> mbrubeck do you know if i can assume that chrome and ff will leak the same way
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# [18:27] <ankitgoel> thanx..
# [18:27] <ankitgoel> mbrubeck thanx
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# [18:28] <ankitgoel> is there any mailing list too???
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# [18:31] <sourabh912> jaws|away:hi
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# [18:44] <mbrubeck> kaareal: I'm think that in most cases, a leaky script will leak the same in all browsers. But I don't know if there are any particular differences to be aware of.
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# [18:48] <mbrubeck> kaareal: There are some tools and techniques for memory profiling in Firefox at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Performance%3aLeak_Tools but none of them are really user-friendly...
# [18:48] <mbrubeck> I don't know enough about them, but if you hang it in #memshrink -- especially when folks like njn are around -- they might have better advice.
# [18:49] <kaareal> mbrubeck: kk thanks
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# [18:56] <Mark_Capella> anyone seen spell checker failures on mochitests today?
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# [18:58] <avih> smaug: hey :) ping
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# [19:00] <avih> re use enum for aOrigin, i have used enum initially, but roc really insisted that I use atoms instead. if you wish to follow this discussion, bug 206438 comment 52 onwards
# [19:00] <avih> smaug: ^
# [19:01] <avih> smaug: main reason (as far as i could understand) was that later on a preference name is composited on the fly from this string.
# [19:01] <avih> so this allows us to not use a big case statement.
# [19:02] <avih> he really insisted on not using enums for this...
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# [19:07] <@smaug> avih: pong
# [19:07] <avih> hey :)
# [19:07] <avih> smaug: ^
# [19:07] <@smaug> avih: atoms for what?
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# [19:07] <avih> your review for my patch for bug 737758
# [19:08] <@smaug> sure
# [19:08] <@smaug> but trying to figure out what roc means
# [19:09] <@smaug> avih: does the current ScrollTo take nsIAtom* ?
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# [19:09] <avih> as i said, as far as i understand, to avoid a big switch statement for each origin, since we need different preferences for each, so this way we can compose the pref name on the fly from the string.
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# [19:10] <@smaug> oh
# [19:10] <@smaug> ahaa
# [19:10] * @smaug hasn't reviewed the original patch
# [19:11] <@smaug> ok, I understand
# [19:11] <avih> yes. i really had a long discussion that i prefer enums too, but did atoms eventually to his request.
# [19:11] <@smaug> a bit ugly
# [19:11] <avih> agreed.
# [19:12] * @smaug wonders where is EU->US adapter might be
# [19:12] <avih> u need this to re-review the patch?? :P
# [19:12] <@smaug> avih: of course :)
# [19:12] <avih> :)
# [19:12] <@smaug> (I'm actually flying to SF tomorrow )
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# [19:13] <avih> where are you at now?
# [19:13] <@smaug> In Finland, Helsinki
# [19:13] <avih> oh, good luck then ;)
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# [19:14] <@smaug> and I need to remember that daylight saving starts here this night
# [19:14] <avih> yes, i'm 1 hours forward of u..
# [19:14] <avih> hour*
# [19:15] <avih> here too this week i think..
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# [19:17] <avih> smaug: thx :)
# [19:19] <@smaug> np
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# [19:31] <@khuey> http://blogs-images.forbes.com/andygreenberg/files/2012/03/exploitpricechart.jpg
# [19:31] <@khuey> I am disappoint
# [19:31] <@khuey> we should be more expensive
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# [19:45] <biesi> khuey, I'd have expected that chrome's sandbox should lead to a greater price difference
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# [19:46] <@smaug> well, it is not bulletproof, as seen lately
# [19:46] <@khuey> biesi: I think the price reflects some combination of difficulty and the value of the target likely to be running that software
# [19:47] <biesi> oh that makes sense
# [19:47] <@khuey> that's the only way I can think of IE's price being so high ;-)
# [19:47] <biesi> heh true
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# [19:49] <edmorley> bah trust my push to get the new intermittent orange
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# [19:55] <Archaeopteryx> does anybody use XRE_CONSOLE_LOG for dumping the error console's content to a file? is it possible to access the file while the application is still open or has it be shut down to get the file created?
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# [20:26] <ejjy> Hi, I am a novice in mozilla, and I am just trying to solve some bugs for thunderbird, currently I am installing all the software requirements. Now here is my question, Do I really need to install Directx , 'coz am curious to know why it is important
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# [20:31] <Callek> ejjy: its for the graphics code relating to hardware accel... I don't think we support disabling it anymore
# [20:31] <Callek> ejjy: you don't need all the samples/etc, but you do need it now
# [20:31] <@smaug> interesting, pdf.js loaded 109% of a pdf file
# [20:32] <kwierso> It's so good, it gives you extra pdfs!
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# [20:33] <ejjy> Callek: So you recommend installing that too. Am I right?
# [20:33] <Callek> I do recommend it, as I said there *may* be a way to disable the requirement, but I don't think there is
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# [20:34] <Artem> hello, everyone!
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# [20:35] <Artem> I'm interested in Mozilla gsoc project with Emscripten. I'd want to port Supertux to js. Who can I ask about it? Who can tell about this task details?
# [20:36] <@smaug> Artem: azakai|2
# [20:36] <azakai|2> Artem: i am happy to talk about this, let's move to #emscripten though
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# [20:36] <Artem> smaug: thanks
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# [21:29] <PraZuBeR> Hello, can anyone help me with my problem? I'm trying to build firefox with vs10, following http://benoitgirard.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/using-visual-studio-2010-ide/ but after build seems to be finishing, I get error MSB3073: The command "C:\mozilla-build\start-msvc10-build.bat" exited with code -1. What am i doing wrong?
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# [21:30] <sourabh912> jaws|away:hi
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# [21:38] <Callek> PraZuBeR: do you have "mozilla build" installed at C:\mozilla-build ?
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# [21:39] <Callek> PraZuBeR: that said, the only supported way to build Firefox is not done via the MSVC IDE and is command line as documented at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Build_Documentation
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# [21:41] <PraZuBeR> Callek: i already built firefox via command line. now i want to change/debug the code, and i'm trying to be able to do it via MSVS IDE
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# [21:42] <Callek> PraZuBeR: well you can change the code via MSVC, once you save you just go back to command line to build (its what I do when doing non-trivial Cpp changes since MSVC is one of the best IDE's for Cpp on windows)
# [21:42] <Callek> PraZuBeR: for debugging you can attach to process or start process, etc. from inside the IDE
# [21:42] <Callek> PraZuBeR: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Debugging_Mozilla_on_Windows_FAQ
# [21:43] <sourabh912> Can anyone tell me when can I talk to jaws?
# [21:43] <Callek> oooo I see that does link to benoits page
# [21:43] <Callek> :/
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# [21:44] <PraZuBeR> Callek: but how can i make msvs behave a bit more friendly to me? now it's just a notepad, nothing more
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# [21:45] <BenB> can I tell netwerk to pin certain objects in the cache? I don't want them to ever be dropped from the cache
# [21:45] <BenB> (I'm chrome)
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# [21:46] <Callek> PraZuBeR: I suggest you try to catch BenWa at some point, he wrote that blog post so can probably help you better than me
# [21:46] <PraZuBeR> Callek: thanks
# [21:47] <Callek> np
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# [21:48] <BenWa> PraZuBeR: Are you trying to get debugging, autocomplete or building from msvc?
# [21:48] <@khuey> BenB: when you say "ever", do you mean across restarts?
# [21:49] <BenB> khuey: yes. I mean never ever, unless the user deletes the profile
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# [21:50] <PraZuBeR> BenWa: i'm trying to make MSVS friendly with mozilla project, although i was told that intellisense won't work anyway. I want to code and debug via MSVS
# [21:50] <@khuey> BenB: that capability does not exist
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# [21:50] <BenWa> PraZuBeR: The intellisense will work to some degree
# [21:50] <@khuey> BenB: in particular, the cache is versioned and may be thrown out entirely when the browser is upgraded
# [21:50] <BenWa> PraZuBeR: The intellisense needs to know where to find the headers and what #define we build with
# [21:51] <BenB> khuey: ok... if Mozilla changes the cache on-disk format, it may be deleted. I can accept that.
# [21:51] <BenB> khuey: what I mean is that other http downloads must not push my objects out of cache due to cache size.
# [21:52] <BenB> likewise, I don't want mozilla to make random expiry date calculations and expire the entires after a certain time.
# [21:52] <PraZuBeR> BenWa: but one header relies on another... it's nearly impossible to match them all
# [21:53] <BenWa> PraZuBeR: The build process dumps them all to '<objdir>\dist\include' so you just need to tell msvc to search there
# [21:53] <BenWa> that's why you need to build first
# [21:53] <BenB> khuey: however, if Mozilla upgrades from 9 to 10, and the cache on-disk format didn't change, the cache must not be emptied.
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# [21:54] <@khuey> BenB: I *think* you can achieve those goals by creating your own separate nsICacheSession (from the relevant method on the nsICacheService)
# [21:55] <PraZuBeR> BenWa: thanks! should i also tick all project files to "included in project"?
# [21:55] <@khuey> BenB: and then disabling time based expiration on that session
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# [21:55] <@khuey> BenB: but you may want to confirm with someone who knows the cache better than I do (e.g. mayhemer)
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# [21:55] <BenWa> PraZuBeR: I don't remember seeing that
# [21:55] <BenWa> I've done the setup once half a year ago so it's very vague
# [21:56] <BenB> khuey: thanks
# [21:56] <PraZuBeR> BenWa: cause now they all are unincluded
# [21:57] <BenWa> PraZuBeR: Have you followed the steps exactly? Which step number are you on?
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# [21:57] <PraZuBeR> BenWa: ah, i included the files i wanted to work on and intellisense began to work
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# [21:58] <BenWa> Excellent
# [21:58] <BenWa> You may want to put all the relevant Preprocessor Definition
# [21:58] <BenWa> otherwise intellisense wont work for #ifdef code
# [21:59] <PraZuBeR> BenWa: thanks. now, if only i could to debug it...
# [21:59] <Callek> BenWa: of course our issue is the divergence of DEFINE stuff
# [21:59] <Callek> such as MOZ_INTERNAL_API etc
# [22:00] <BenWa> Callek: Generally you can jump reformat and paste mozilla-config.h and be pretty close to what you want
# [22:00] <BenWa> just*
# [22:00] <BenWa> Sadly some modules have some local DEFINEs
# [22:00] <Callek> well I'm talking the GNUMake specified DEFINES rather than the autoconf ones
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# [22:00] <BenWa> Ohh right
# [22:01] <BenWa> I wonder if I could get a windows developers to redo my guide with better instructions and screenshot
# [22:01] <Callek> especially because they *can* vary depending on specific target even in the same directory
# [22:01] <BenWa> A lot of people are using it. I just wrote it quickly so I would remember what to do next time
# [22:01] <BenWa> Right
# [22:02] <PraZuBeR> it seems that <objdir>/dist/include doesn't have all includes after all
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# [22:03] <BenWa> You could find all .h and copy them there
# [22:03] <BenWa> Ideally we've had a proper msvc project file
# [22:03] <PraZuBeR> that would be nice :)
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# [22:04] <BenWa> I only touch windows a few times a year luckily :)
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# [22:07] <PraZuBeR> how to debug via MSVS? anytime i press debug, it starts to build...
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# [22:07] <BenWa> PraZuBeR: Use 'attach to a process' rather
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# [22:15] <PraZuBeR> BenWa: it finally worked! thank you very much!
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# [22:30] <Ms2ger> edmorley, well, you're best placed to file intermittent oranges ;)
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# [22:40] <edmorley> now that the bot's bugmail is filtered straight to trash, filing them is less of a long term nuisance :-)
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# [22:40] <Ms2ger> :)
# [22:40] <Ms2ger> There's one on 2342271b2be1 too
# [22:40] <Ms2ger> The Linux PGO Moth
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# [23:10] <RyanVM> any a11y people around?
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# [23:14] <Callek> bholley: ping (are you here)?
# [23:14] <bholley> Callek: sort of
# [23:15] <Callek> bholley: does --enable-jsd=no make it so js debugging with Firebug/Chromebug/Venkman won't work?
# [23:15] <bholley> Callek: correct
# [23:15] <Callek> bholley: great thanks
# [23:15] <bholley> Callek: are you passing it?
# [23:16] <Callek> bholley: reviewing Bug 738879 -- and since SeaMonkey ships venkman by default, I want to not even build/package venkman if the flag is disabled
# [23:16] <bholley> Callek: got it
# [23:16] <Callek> bholley: just wanted to be sure I understood ramifications of even trying to support the flag for SM :-)
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# [23:16] <bholley> Callek: FWIW - jsd is going away soon
# [23:17] <bholley> Callek: once the new script debugger gets up to snuff
# [23:17] <bholley> Callek: the jsd backend is really terrible
# [23:17] <Ms2ger> C, dammit
# [23:17] <Callek> bholley: huh, I thought jsd was planned to be kept around for at least 6 months after jsd2 was "ready" to give transition support
# [23:17] <Callek> at least everything I had read/asked about suggested it wasn't going away.
# [23:17] <RyanVM> ahhh, Zarro c-n Boogs found. :)
# [23:18] <Ms2ger> Shall I fix that?
# [23:18] <bholley> Callek: sure
# [23:18] <bholley> Callek: that's what I meant by 'soon'
# [23:18] <Callek> bholley: soon as in "within the next 6 months" or soon as in "6 months after jsd2 is considered `ready`:
# [23:19] <Callek> imo big difference, since I last heard jsd2 would be ready around Q1 2013
# [23:19] <Ms2ger> bholley, so, cpg still on track for Q1? :)
# [23:19] <bholley> Callek: wait, really? I'm not all that in the loop on that stuff, but I thought jsdbg2 was in pretty good shape
# [23:19] <bholley> Callek: like, there's an experimental script debugger already using it
# [23:19] <bholley> Callek: but anyway, sounds like you know more than I do
# [23:20] <Callek> bholley: I haven't asked/looked in a while, so I could be wrong, and someone may have dumped more time into it than I expected
# [23:20] <Callek> (I didn't even know --enabled-jsd=no was possible until today, for example)
# [23:21] <RyanVM> Ms2ger: be my guest!
# [23:22] <bholley> Callek: I didn't until the patch came through my review queue
# [23:22] <bholley> Ms2ger: it's a stretch
# [23:22] <RyanVM> hmm...I can't seem to load any messages off news.mozilla.org
# [23:23] <Ms2ger> RyanVM, me neither, looks like
# [23:24] <RyanVM> bholley: could be worst, you could be working on XBL2
# [23:24] <bholley> RyanVM: ;-)
# [23:25] <BenB> RyanVM: you had pinged me several times on #maildev ? was that about pdx.edu?
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# [23:25] <RyanVM> yes, I started emailing you when IRC pings weren't working :P
# [23:25] <RyanVM> thanks for taking care of it
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# [23:25] <BenB> RyanVM: yes, that's preferred anyways. I do see the pings, but possibly with hours delay, and then I wonder what you wanted.
# [23:25] * RyanVM likes having Zarro Boogs found :)
# [23:26] * BenB DELETE * FROM bugs;
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# [23:26] <BenB> RyanVM: there's nobody working on XBL2, is there?
# [23:27] <RyanVM> wasn't jst?
# [23:27] <BenB> "was" when? 5 years ago?
# [23:27] <Ms2ger> itym sicking
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# [23:28] <BenB> I haven't heard form XBL2 in the last 3-5 years, I wonder whether there's activity again
# [23:28] <Ms2ger> Google is slowly realizing that XBL2 is what they want for their Components stuff
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# [23:29] <BenB> I think XBL (code in XML) was misguided and should be replaced with something purely in JS, with OO hierarchy.
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# [23:43] <THOR> hello
# [23:44] <THOR> I have be directed by the nightly web browser to come here and discuss any possible issues or fixes I would like to see...
# [23:45] <THOR> forgive me it has been a while since I've IRC'd
# [23:46] * THOR hears an echo in the room
# [23:46] <RyanVM> hi THOR
# [23:46] <kwierso> THOR: it's afternoon/evening/night on a saturday for most of the people here, might not get a timely response today :)
# [23:46] <kwierso> or RyanVM will respond... :)
# [23:46] <THOR> oh ok
# [23:47] <kwierso> what was your issue?
# [23:47] <RyanVM> but yeah, now's not exactly prime time for people being around :P
# [23:47] <THOR> well the issue I see is kinda plugin related
# [23:48] <THOR> from what I have researched the best pc security software can only detect 28% of all keyloggers
# [23:48] <THOR> which is why I feel it is of the utmost important that this plugin is worked with
# [23:49] <THOR> I would prefer it if my credit cards or passwords were not logged ID theft sucks been down that road already
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# [23:49] <THOR> I love the nightly build being 64bity
# [23:49] <RyanVM> what plugin are you talking about?
# [23:49] <THOR> bit
# [23:50] <THOR> keyscrambler personal
# [23:50] <RyanVM> also, win64 nightlies aren't recommended for use right now as they get less testing than 32bit builds, FWIW
# [23:50] <THOR> I have tested it against key loggers and RDP sessions or remote connections
# [23:50] <THOR> correct
# [23:50] <THOR> I gathered that much
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# [23:50] <RyanVM> so what are you looking for mozilla to do with keyscrambler?
# [23:51] <THOR> to work with it I dunno what it is that keeps breaking it
# [23:51] <THOR> or possibly release something that will accomplish the same task
# [23:51] <THOR> built into the browser that will help thwart ID thieve
# [23:51] <RyanVM> does it use binary components by chance?
# [23:51] <THOR> thiefs
# [23:51] <THOR> surely it does
# [23:52] <THOR> but the XPI is seperate
# [23:52] <RyanVM> that would be the reason it breaks between releases then
# [23:52] <THOR> really?
# [23:52] <RyanVM> if they're compiling binaries against mozilla code, it has to be compiled against every new release
# [23:52] <RyanVM> which is why mozilla recommends people not do it that way
# [23:52] <RyanVM> in favor of using built-in js-ctypes support instead
# [23:53] <THOR> hrmmm ok but just like the big push for SSL everywhere I think this is equally important if not more important
# [23:54] <THOR> what would it take to integrate such a code into the browser or develop a mozilla supported plugin to preform a similar task
# [23:54] <RyanVM> no clue
# [23:54] <RyanVM> knowing nothing of how it works
# [23:54] <RyanVM> but given that it appears that the firefox plugin is just workign with the installed app, probably not good
# [23:55] <THOR> well basically what it does is encrypt keystrokes as you type them as a secondary protection against keyloggers
# [23:55] <RyanVM> reading the about page, it's doing things at the kernel level
# [23:55] <THOR> it is a superb concept
# [23:55] <RyanVM> I don't think Firefox can even get access at that level on modern OSes (?)
# [23:56] <RyanVM> and IMO, I'm not sure I'd *want* Firefox to have that kind of access on my system
# [23:56] <THOR> ahhh well I see a reasoning for this
# [23:56] <THOR> correct
# [23:57] <THOR> there would have to be a way for firefox to do it at its level as well just to work inside of firefox alone
# [23:58] <THOR> do the research though this is really a bigger problem then anyone is aware of
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# [23:58] <RyanVM> seems to me that it would be very difficult to obfuscate things at a higher level, since a keylogger presumably runs at a lower level
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# [23:58] <THOR> errr I suppose so
# [23:58] <RyanVM> to me, this seems like protection better suited for OS integration, not the web browser
# [23:59] <THOR> yes and no
# [23:59] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@moz-F55A93D0.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
# [23:59] <THOR> this is a huge issue
# [23:59] <THOR> that people are not being made aware of
# [23:59] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
# [23:59] <THOR> you think many antivirus companies want to admit to such a lack of security really
# Session Close: Sun Mar 25 00:00:00 2012

The end :)