/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-04-17 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Apr 17 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
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# [00:01] <gavin> hard to get people out of old habits! :)
# [00:01] <gavin> I would go with a random mix of nsnull and NULL
# [00:01] <@smaug> huh, when did we start to use NULL
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# [00:02] <jhammel> gavin: i would rather use a new #define nsNULL NULL so we can easily swap them :P
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# [00:02] <mounir> I didn't know we were using NULL
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# [00:03] <BenWa> Well it's in the style guide
# [00:03] <BenWa> I dont care for either or, I just want to pick one and be left alone :)
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# [00:04] <mounir> BenWa: pick nsnull then ;)
# [00:04] <cpeterson> or nullptr?
# [00:04] <cpeterson> ;)
# [00:04] <BenWa> Well then we should update our style guide!
# [00:04] <@smaug> I guess coding style is getting pretty random
# [00:04] <BenWa> I could start a dev.platform post (flamewar)
# [00:05] <cpeterson> or a surveymonkey poll
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# [00:06] <jhammel> or a post pointing to a surveymonkey poll that gets tallied at a password-encrypted google spreadsheet
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# [00:08] <jmaher> roc: ping
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# [00:09] <@roc> hi
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# [00:09] <jgilbert_> our style docs are...not great
# [00:09] <jmaher> roc: do you know if Jan Larres logs into irc?
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# [00:09] <@roc> on irc.mozilla.org? I don't think so
# [00:10] <bent> hm, the "more info" link on the plugin finder window points to a 404 on addons.m.o
# [00:10] <@roc> implementing nullptr and doing a mega-patch to use it everywhere would be a fine project for something
# [00:10] <bent> anyone know where that should get filed?
# [00:10] <jmaher> roc: ok, there is an email address I found
# [00:10] <jmaher> thanks roc
# [00:11] <gavin> bent: addons.mozilla.org::website, or some such?
# [00:11] <bent> gavin, or is it a frontend bug?
# [00:11] <gavin> bent: well maybe ultimately, but the immediate fix needs to be server-side..
# [00:11] <gavin> addons.mozilla.org::Public Pages is what I was htnking of
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# [00:12] <biesi> roc, nullptr?
# [00:12] <@roc> C++11
# [00:12] <@roc> but you can implement it as a template in regular C++
# [00:12] <biesi> ah
# [00:13] <@roc> it has the nice feature that it can be cast to any pointer type but not to a numeric type
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# [00:14] <biesi> roc, so basically an nsnull replacement
# [00:16] <@roc> yes
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# [00:21] <@dbaron> /home/dbaron/builds/ssd/mozilla-central/mozilla/tools/profiler/TableTicker.cpp:462:48: error: no matching function for call to ‘ProfileEntry::ProfileEntry(char, const char [7], int)’
# [00:21] <@dbaron> trying to build mozilla-inbound
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# [00:26] <@dbaron> jrmuizel, ^
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# [00:32] <jrmuizel> dbaron: how old is your inbound?
# [00:33] <jrmuizel> dbaron: hmm nevermind I'll fixit
# [00:33] <@dbaron> jrmuizel, an hour
# [00:33] <@dbaron> jrmuizel, removing the final ", 0" seemed to fix it
# [00:34] <jrmuizel> dbaron: that's the correct fix
# [00:37] <@dbaron> jrmuizel, I can push it if you want
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# [00:37] <jrmuizel> dbaron: I was about to
# [00:37] <@dbaron> jrmuizel, either way works
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# [00:40] <hub> is there a way to get clang to build in the try servers?
# [00:41] <@dbaron> jrmuizel, https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/bb484a084008
# [00:41] <hub> it seems that recently a11y has been breaking often with clang
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# [00:49] <philor> hub: if nobody else admits to knowing how, espindola does
# [00:50] <BenWa> hub: If clang is installed there I would imagine you could use a custom moz_config and start CC/CXX to clang
# [00:51] <BenWa> but that's only a guess
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# [00:58] <@khuey> mmm splitty
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# [01:04] <dholbert_> is IRC having connectivity issues? (my znc bouncer just got disconnected & can't seem to reconnect; am now on via mibbit)
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# [01:04] <rnewman> dholbert_: I think sand just went away
# [01:05] <dholbert_> rnewman: ah, thanks. I'll restart my bouncer, hopefully it'll swap to concrete
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# [01:14] <RyanVM> dumb question - what's Fennec in relation to Mobile Firefox?
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# [01:15] <gavin> RyanVM: it's the codename for the project
# [01:15] <RyanVM> what release is everyone talking about?
# [01:15] <RyanVM> native?
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# [01:15] <Mossop> Yes
# [01:15] <gavin> yes, the Native android version
# [01:16] <RyanVM> ok
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# [01:16] <RyanVM> btw, why did fx11 never ship for android?
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# [01:17] <hub> RyanVM: delays.
# [01:18] <hub> like the Fennec version wasn't good enough
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# [01:19] <RyanVM> i see
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# [01:24] <Waldo> anyone want to claim familiarity with the IEEE-754 floating point format? I could use someone to go over some code that's supposed to conform to the bit-level floating point layouts defined there, to double-check it's correct
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# [01:26] * RyanVM can't wait to clone yet another repo for doing checkins
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# [01:29] <Waldo> I think a swift, harsh birching will keep people in line, and not committing the wrong places
# [01:30] <mattwoodrow> dholbert: ping
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# [01:31] <dholbert> mattwoodrow, pong
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# [01:31] <mattwoodrow> dholbert: I'm hitting bug 707035 with my display list invalidation patches (along with a few other similar failures in the same folder)
# [01:31] <mattwoodrow> any chance you'd be able to help me with the fix you suggested there?
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# [01:32] <RyanVM> Waldo: i'm having a hard time understanding what purpose inbound serves during the birching
# [01:32] <RyanVM> Waldo: presumably, the number of a+ bugs will be low anyway, so why not just land right on m-c?
# [01:33] <dholbert> mattwoodrow, sure -- see this example, which uses shape-rendering: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/reftests/svg/smil/style/anim-css-strokewidth-1-to-pct-pct.svg?raw=1
# [01:33] <RyanVM> Waldo: At which point, why not just leave inbound alone and only do m-c-->inbound merges until the split
# [01:34] <dholbert> mattwoodrow, you should just be able to stick that in the "rect" selector there
# [01:34] <RyanVM> bonus points for switching desktop nightly users over to inbound builds for easier regression spotting
# [01:34] <mattwoodrow> dholbert: ah, ok that works
# [01:34] <dholbert> mattwoodrow, nice! that fixes it?
# [01:34] <mattwoodrow> I was thinking I'd have to edit the js file too
# [01:34] <dholbert> mattwoodrow, nope
# [01:34] <mattwoodrow> dholbert: oh, not sure yet, I mean i know what to do :)
# [01:34] <dholbert> mattwoodrow, ah, gotcha. :)
# [01:35] <dholbert> mattwoodrow, assuming it fixes it, feel free to land that with rs=me, and resolve that randomorange bug
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# [01:36] <Waldo> RyanVM: I dunno; honestly I have fairly few things that I think it's a good idea to land in the next week-ish, so I'm not going to be too bothered, although a deviation just sounds wrong on principle to me at first pale (yes, I can hear luminosity)
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# [01:36] <RyanVM> The whole birch idea just seems needlessly complex IMO
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# [01:43] <joduinn-mtg> khuey: ping?
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# [01:44] <@khuey> joduinn-mtg: hi
# [01:45] <joduinn-mtg> khuey: hey. you still awake? or out in the sun? :-)
# [01:45] <joduinn-mtg> khuey: got time for vidyo call?
# [01:45] <@khuey> joduinn-mtg: yeah, let me go grab my headset
# [01:45] <@khuey> I'll be back in a few
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# [01:49] <cjones> can anyone with the power to grant editbugs please give it to mvines@codeaurora.org?
# [01:50] <@khuey> cjones: done
# [01:50] <@khuey> joduinn-mtg: your vidyo room?
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# [01:50] <cjones> danke
# [01:50] <joduinn-mtg> khuey: sure.
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# [01:50] <glob> khuey, fyi you don't need to do canconfirm separately, editbugs will grant canconfirm too
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# [01:51] <@khuey|away> joduinn-mtg: 297 right?
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# [01:51] <@khuey> glob: ah, good to know
# [01:52] <joduinn-mtg> khuey: 294-vidyo-room
# [01:52] <@khuey> ah
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# [01:52] * @khuey redials
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# [02:01] <ferongr> Bug 745054 made Skia buildable on windows. Should improvements to non-accelerated canvas performance be expected with gfx.canvas.azure.enabled;true and gfx.canvas.azure.prefer-skia;true ? Or maybe the win32 Nightlies are not built with --enable-skia ? Or is there something I'm misunderstanding?
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# [02:02] <mattwoodrow> ferongr: The nighties aren't build with enable-skia currently
# [02:02] <ferongr> allright, thanks
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# [02:14] <ddahl> khuey: where are you?
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# [02:14] <ddahl> khuey: i've been telling people different lies each time they ask
# [02:14] <ddahl> ;)
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# [02:14] <@khuey> ddahl: australia
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# [02:15] <ddahl> khuey: nice
# [02:15] <@khuey> indeed
# [02:15] <ddahl> don't forget to look at that big red rock
# [02:15] <ddahl> or something
# [02:15] <@khuey> heh
# [02:15] <@khuey> not going to make it over there
# [02:15] <@khuey> unfortunately
# [02:15] <ddahl> thats ok, cool trip nonetheless
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# [02:16] <ddahl> so I was not lying about your whereabouts
# [02:16] <@khuey> ddahl: is anything up?
# [02:16] <@khuey> or were you just wondering?
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# [02:16] <ddahl> khuey: if you are on vacation, then no
# [02:16] <WG9s> Silly me would have thought people not being able to be found today would be in Massachusetts, where we have this holiday today not really celebrated anywhere else (except in Maine)
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# [02:17] <biesi> also DC!
# [02:17] <@khuey> ddahl: I'm not on vacation, I'm at a workweek
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# [02:17] <ddahl> khuey: oh!
# [02:18] <WG9s> biesi: well, actually the holiday in dc is not the same one, yet seems to be on the same day.
# [02:18] <biesi> WG9s, true
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# [02:18] <ddahl> if you get a few minutes you might peek at and comment on bug 745345 - which is a short-term-fix i assume
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# [02:19] <ddahl> if you feel like it - no big deal
# [02:19] <ddahl> khuey: also, still a bit stymied by bu 673432 's DOM issues - I am wondering how the new bindings wil affect it
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# [02:21] <@khuey> ddahl: what's wrong with the current patch in 673432?
# [02:21] <@khuey> ddahl: comment 85?
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# [02:26] <ddahl> khuey: i need to re-apply that patch and whatnot, i'll ping you later
# [02:26] <@khuey> ok
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# [02:27] <glob> khuey, you playing golf then?
# [02:28] <glob> (that's the only location i see roo's)
# [02:28] <@khuey> lol, I wish
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# [02:33] <@khuey> gavin: whats up with 719455?
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# [02:35] <nigelb> coding on a kangaroo - that's a whole new achivement unlocked.
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# [02:38] <gavin> khuey: looks like it has a patch that's in my review queue
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# [02:43] <@khuey> gavin: is it going to get reviewed anytime soon?
# [02:44] <gavin> khuey: since it's in my review queue, yes
# [02:44] <gavin> turns out I already reviewed a bunch of it
# [02:44] <gavin> except then it never landed
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# [02:56] <philor> jst: ping
# [02:56] <jst> philikon: just noticed
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# [02:56] <philor> jst: is that just needs-clobber?
# [02:56] <jst> doesn't look it
# [02:57] <philor> oh, yeah, misread where it was bitching
# [02:57] <jst> philikon: I have a fix, but I'm going to leave my local build get a bit further before landing here
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# [02:59] <Waldo> WG9s: woo patriot's day!
# [03:00] <Waldo> nigelb: coding on a kangaroo's not too bad, except your patches are more likely to bounce
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# [03:03] <nigelb> Waldo: just make sure you put them in pouch ;)
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# [03:05] <jst> philikon: fix landed
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# [03:08] <philikon> jst: wrong man
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# [03:08] <philikon> (the whole time :))
# [03:09] <jst> philikon: duh :)
# [03:09] <jst> philor: fix landed :)
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# [03:10] <philor> thx
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# [03:12] <nigelb> philikon: haha
# [03:13] <philor> I just stalked him for a while to patch around the problem, but people say such awful things to him, it was making me sad
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# [03:16] <jwir3> damons just wrote "(NOTE: I've developed *the* perfect shipping tactic, but it's too large to write in the margin of this email)." in an email to dev-planning re: making m-c approval required. It seems like a joke, but I don't get it. Can someone enlighten me?
# [03:16] <jwir3> ;)
# [03:16] <@khuey> jwir3: Fermat's last theorem
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# [03:16] <jwir3> khuey: ah now I get it
# [03:16] <jwir3> khuey: thx
# [03:16] <jwir3> :D
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# [03:17] * jwir3 feels like a moron - he studied number theory in his undergrad. :|
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# [03:17] <sheppy> jwir3: did you graduate? :)
# [03:17] <jwir3> haha yes
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# [03:17] * sheppy decides not to make further jokes in this area :)
# [03:17] <jwir3> apparently the bar isn't as high as other places from where I graduated
# [03:18] <sheppy> haha
# [03:18] <sheppy> well done :)
# [03:18] <@khuey> sheppy++
# [03:18] * Waldo makes jokes, modulo the cases when he doesn't have the time to make them
# [03:18] <jhammel> Waldo++
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# [03:19] * sheppy divides his time between math jokes and building B2G.
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# [03:20] <sheppy> Bad math puns seem to be multiplying.
# [03:20] <philor> Bas: ping
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# [03:21] <Waldo> sheppy is one smooth operator
# [03:21] * Waldo discretely makes another pun
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# [03:22] <biesi> Waldo, the joke quality is monotonously getting worse
# [03:22] <Waldo> biesi: monotonically, ms. malaprop
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# [03:22] <biesi> Waldo, my math education was in german :(
# [03:23] <sheppy> I suspect these jokes are a product of the times.
# [03:23] <sheppy> BOOM!
# [03:23] <philor> jrmuizel: or you'd do, too
# [03:23] <jwir3> oh god I wish I hadn't started this
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# [03:24] <Waldo> jwir3: you must be new here
# [03:24] <jwir3> heh
# [03:24] <nigelb> lol
# [03:24] <Waldo> alas, I must go now; continue the puns, all
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# [03:24] <sheppy> Waldo: jwir3 doesn't understand that we cater to the least common denominator around here.
# [03:25] <jwir3> groan
# [03:25] <biesi> did we get to a local minimum yet?
# [03:25] <biesi> coz I'm sure it's not a global one
# [03:25] <mattwoodrow> I don't know if we can continue without one of the key exponents of the punning way
# [03:25] <sheppy> I think the quality of these jokes is asymptotically approaching zero.
# [03:25] <jhammel> this is getting derivative
# [03:25] <jrmuizel> philor: pong
# [03:25] <jwir3> don't worry, I'm sure we'll hit a limit eventually
# [03:26] <nigelb> We should integrate new jokes.
# [03:26] <sheppy> jhammel: that's just an expression of your personal opinion.
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# [03:26] <philor> jrmuizel: need some adjusting of reftest expectations on beta without Azure
# [03:27] <philor> 'tis a wee bit orange
# [03:27] <jrmuizel> philor: on which platform?
# [03:27] <philor> the orange one in https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Beta&onlyunstarred=1 :)
# [03:28] <ehsan_> firebot: uuid
# [03:28] <firebot> 51fede5f-8d3f-4625-9402-e82c21110541 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
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# [03:53] <ehsan_> roc: ping
# [03:54] <@roc> hi
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# [03:55] <ehsan_> roc: hey, do you know how to get an nsIDOMWindow/nsIDocShell from an nsIWidget?
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# [03:56] <@roc> I can think of some unpleasant ways to do it
# [03:57] <ehsan_> roc: ok, tell me more :)
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# [03:57] <@roc> what is this for?
# [03:57] * sheppy pictures roc cornering the nsIWidget in a dark alley, wielding a lead pipe.
# [03:57] <ehsan_> roc: fwiw, my goal is to get an nsILoadContext inside of nsCocoaWindow
# [03:57] <ehsan_> roc: v
# [03:57] <ehsan_> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722872
# [03:58] * nattokirai using a build slave is like poking your eye out with a sharp stick
# [03:58] * nattokirai never knew vnc could suck this bad...
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# [03:59] <@roc> ehsan_: can't our code that initiates the copy or paste operation pass along the right nsILoadContext?
# [03:59] <nthomas> :-S
# [04:00] <ehsan_> roc: this is inside readSelectionFromPasteboard, which is called by os x as far as I can tell
# [04:01] <@roc> so this is like a paste operation?
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# [04:02] <@roc> why do we need to know the docshell there? can't we wait until the event is actually handled (where we'll know the docshell)?
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# [04:02] <ehsan_> roc: hmm, I guess I could pass null to init() there
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# [04:02] <ehsan_> roc: and later on set the loadContext
# [04:03] <pcwalton> is there a way to spell "#if defined(FOO) || defined(BAR)" in files that Preprocessor.py works with?
# [04:03] <ehsan_> roc: but that would require having two new methods on nsITransferable
# [04:03] <pcwalton> it doesn't seem to know that syntax
# [04:03] <ehsan_> roc: which is a bit dirtier
# [04:03] <ehsan_> pcwalton: not really
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# [04:03] <pcwalton> hmm, I'll just code duplicate then
# [04:03] <pcwalton> thanks
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# [04:06] <ehsan_> roc: do you think that's a better solution?
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# [04:06] <@roc> it's better than trying to figure out your docshell ahead of time
# [04:07] <ehsan_> ok
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# [04:11] <tchevalier> Hi, who knows what to use to delete a pref, please? I mean to completely erase it. It should be something like Services.prefs.something...
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# [04:12] <Mossop> tchevalier: You can't completely delete a pref if it has a default value, clearUserPref will clear any user set value
# [04:12] <mbrubeck> tchevalier: There's clearUserPref ...
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# [04:13] <jdm> ehsan_: have you started writing a patch for the nsClipboardPrivacyHandler bug?
# [04:13] <jdm> I'm hoping I can warn you off
# [04:13] <ehsan_> jdm: yes
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# [04:13] <ehsan_> jdm: ok, please do :)
# [04:13] * jdm makes shooing motions towards ehsan
# [04:13] <ehsan_> jdm: were you also working on a patch?
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# [04:14] <jdm> ehsan_: I previously pointed diana towards it and we've been discussing solutions
# [04:14] <ehsan_> tchevalier: resetUserPref?
# [04:14] <tchevalier> Mossop, mbrubeck : Yeah thanks, but it's to clear an old pref, and replace it by a new one. But I guess we could live with a unused pref
# [04:14] <ehsan_> jdm: oh, ok
# [04:14] <ehsan_> so, what should I do now?
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# [04:15] <mbrubeck> tchevalier: Well, if you are removing the default value *and* calling clearUserPref, then it should be completely gone.
# [04:16] <jdm> ehsan_: hum. the proposed solution doesn't sound like a lot of effort, so I'm inclined to suggest you just qdel your work :/
# [04:16] <jdm> although I guess there are a bunch of callers to update
# [04:16] <ehsan_> jdm: it's mostly boilerplate code
# [04:16] <ehsan_> there are some, yes :)
# [04:16] <mbrubeck> Oh man, were there really only 3 messages on .governance during my whole 3-day vacation? Wow!
# [04:16] <ehsan_> jdm: I'm almost done updating them all
# [04:16] <jdm> argh
# [04:17] <jdm> I should really not forget my rule about assigning bugs in the future
# [04:17] <jdm> I hate when this happens
# [04:17] <ehsan_> jdm: ok, so I can just keep the branch around just in case
# [04:17] <ehsan_> jdm: it's ok, I only spent like half an hour :)
# [04:17] <jdm> ehsan_: ok, I would appreciate it. sorry :(
# [04:17] <ehsan_> jdm: you are forgiven ;)
# [04:17] <ehsan_> jdm: oh wait, not yet!
# [04:17] <jdm> :o
# [04:17] <ehsan_> jdm: you will be when you point me to a "hard" pbngen bug which is not taken ;)
# [04:17] <ehsan_> (which I can fix tonight)
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# [04:18] <jdm> ehsan_: oh man, I bet I can find one in a jiffy
# [04:18] <ehsan_> jdm: (also it would be nice if you can somehow tag the bugs you've been talking to people about, since I'm actively looking for contributors in this area :)
# [04:19] <jdm> ehsan_: sure thing. I don't believe I have pointed out any others, so you should be good
# [04:19] <ehsan_> jdm: do you wanna look at what I have by any chance?
# [04:19] <jdm> ehsan_: sure
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# [04:19] <jdm> ehsan_: the plugin host one looks like it should be reasonably exciting for a new contributor, by the way
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# [04:20] <ehsan_> jdm: I'm not terribly familiar with that stuff myself, so I'd leave that one to you to mentor :)
# [04:20] <jdm> ehsan_: the download manager bug needs a brand new patch to implement the discussed changes from dev.platform
# [04:20] <ehsan_> jdm: yeah, but I'd like to hold off on the download manager completely until the new UI lands
# [04:20] <tchevalier> mbrubeck: "removing the default value" -> Just replace it with something else than the default value? clearUserPref will reset it to the default value, no?
# [04:20] <jdm> that's fair
# [04:21] <jdm> ehsan_: the media cache flusher will be a slightly more complicated one
# [04:21] <jdm> I really haven't looked at many JS ones
# [04:21] <ehsan_> jdm: https://github.com/ehsan/mozilla-central/commit/d8fa26b30e77c7206b45324cb8b1d0d3c5d65b8c
# [04:21] <jdm> ehsan_: the multiprocess notifications will also be more complicated than others
# [04:22] <ehsan_> jdm: ok, I'll take a look at the media cache flusher
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# [04:25] <ehsan_> jdm: I won't put that link in the bug to avoid discouraging Diane :)
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# [04:27] <philor> "pulling from http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/" ... "abort: HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
# [04:29] <philor> jrmuizel: and tick tick tick, that would be pulling to back out...
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# [04:30] <RyanVM> sweet, robocop is permaorange on inbound
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# [04:30] <RyanVM> and my push doesn't seem to be updating anymore
# [04:30] <philor> fix is being reviewed
# [04:31] <RyanVM> (even though self-serve shows builds as finished)
# [04:31] <philor> for robocop, not for beta as far as I know
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# [04:32] <philor> self-serve lies about coalescing - if you don't get foo on bar because some push above you did, it'll show that push's foo as being yours
# [04:35] <RyanVM> i see
# [04:36] <philor> you can tell where they really are by the start times
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# [04:37] <philor> and horrible though it seems, it's a feature, since if you really need one of them to run on your push, there it is in self-serve, ready to retrigger as long as the retrigger doesn't get coalesced too
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# [04:40] <gps> is this a JS "wut" or a bug in our JS engine? http://gps.pastebin.mozilla.org/1574045
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# [04:43] <Mossop> I seem to recall that being an oddity in how let work, because one of them is in a block the other isn't
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# [04:44] <gps> well, it's not documented on MDN in either the let or switch pages, so I'm going to file a bug and see what happens
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# [04:44] <Mossop> Isn't there a spec somewhere? :)
# [04:45] <gps> are you volunteering to read it? :)
# [04:45] <gps> of course var works. hmmm
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# [04:47] <mbrubeck> tchevalier: By "removing the default value" I mean removing it from all.js (or wherever else the default is set)
# [04:47] <mbrubeck> in the code
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# [04:47] <tchevalier> mbrubeck: Ho, ok :) Btw, thanks!
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# [04:54] <ehsan_> jdm: ping
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# [04:54] <jdm> ehsan_: yo
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# [04:54] <ehsan_> jdm: how do you get a docshell from an nsIChannel?
# [04:55] <jdm> ehsan_: use nsIPrivateBrowsingConsumer on top of the relevant necko patches
# [04:55] <ehsan_> jdm: oh, how close are they to landing?
# [04:55] <jdm> ehsan_: awaiting review
# [04:55] <jdm> ehsan_: I suspect the base patches could land soon
# [04:56] <ehsan_> jdm: ok, cool
# [04:56] <ehsan_> jdm: hmm
# [04:56] <ehsan_> jdm: so here's a more general question
# [04:56] <jduell> jdm: I'm reviewing them now--main issue for me is whether we want STORE_PRIVATE to be separate mode
# [04:56] <jdm> jduell: yeah, I figured that would be a discussion
# [04:56] <jduell> or whether it should be a flag that can apply in combo with the other modes
# [04:56] <jduell> yeah
# [04:56] <ehsan_> jdm: why do we want to separate the two media caches?
# [04:56] <ehsan_> jdm: I'm not entirely convinced that we do
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# [04:57] <ehsan_> jdm: jduell: can you guys give me some context please?
# [04:57] <jdm> ehsan_: jduell's not involved with the media cache stuff
# [04:57] <jduell> true
# [04:57] <ehsan_> jdm: yeah I know, I was asking about the necko patches :)
# [04:57] <jdm> oh
# [04:57] <jduell> SO
# [04:57] <ehsan_> to see if I can help answer that question
# [04:58] <jduell> we've got an enum right now for cache modes: STORE_ON_DISK, IN_RAM, APP_CACHE
# [04:58] <ehsan_> ok
# [04:58] <jduell> jdm's patch adds STORE_PRIVATE, which essentially maps to "store in RAM in PB mode"
# [04:58] <jduell> but long-term we prob want PB-mode to also work with disk cache
# [04:58] <jduell> and we still haven't figured out how PB should affect appcache
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# [04:58] <ehsan_> jduell: work as in?
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# [04:59] <billm> philor: ping
# [04:59] <jdm> jduell: caching private data on disk worries me
# [04:59] <philor> billm: pong
# [04:59] <ehsan_> jduell: fwiw, we *don't* want to cache anything to the disk for PB mode windows
# [04:59] <jduell> well, that's a valid privacy discussion to have
# [04:59] <billm> philor: do you know if it's still okay to land something on beta?
# [04:59] <ehsan_> jduell: since that involves writing URLs to disk
# [04:59] <ehsan_> and would be a regression to what we have today
# [04:59] <jduell> in that case maybe we're fine with mapping STORE_PRIVATE to a memory-only semantic.
# [05:00] <philor> billm: as long as it has approval, sure
# [05:00] <ehsan_> jduell: and the same argument applies to the app cache as well
# [05:00] <ehsan_> jdm: is that what your patches implement?
# [05:00] * ehsan_ should really read https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722845
# [05:00] <jduell> I'm not even sure the appcache has a memory-only option
# [05:01] <jdm> ehsan_: no, my patches implement the same semantics as currently are in place
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# [05:01] <ehsan_> jduell: if it doesn't, we should disable it in PB mode until it does :)
# [05:01] <billm> philor: ok. I heard the last beta was going to be built soon. I just wasn't sure when.
# [05:01] <ehsan_> jdm: what I said _are_ the existing semantics
# [05:01] <ehsan_> unless somebody has broken them without telling me :(
# [05:01] <jduell> ehsan_: your comments welcome in bug 725792 :)
# [05:02] <ehsan_> jduell: sure, will comment there
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# [05:02] <ehsan_> sorry I should really read my bugmail
# [05:02] <ehsan_> oh
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# [05:02] <ehsan_> jduell: except that nobody had cc'ed me on that bug ;)
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# [05:02] <jduell> ehsan_: so that's your excuse?
# [05:02] <jduell> :)
# [05:02] <ehsan_> :P
# [05:02] <philor> billm: far as I know, step one in building one is to tag and push the tagging, so I assume as long as that's not visible, it's not too late
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# [05:04] <Callek> philor: ooo btw, 746042 is what I think/hope will solve lots of these "tegra-XXX has been failing 30 jobs in a row" Its not up for review yet though
# [05:05] <billm> philor: cool, thanks
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# [05:05] <philor> well, literally step one is when drivers tell releng to do it, but since that happens in private, visible step one is tagging
# [05:06] <ehsan_> jduell: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725792#c2
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# [05:08] <philor> Callek: yay, because I'm terrible about spotting them
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# [05:08] <Callek> philor: actually you're much better at spotting them, than most!
# [05:08] <Callek> philor: but I'd rather not need us to spot them ;-)
# [05:08] <jduell> jdm: I assume the changes to HttpChannelChild.cpp in patch 4 belong in the HTTP patch. But these all need to land at once, right? So no biggie...
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# [05:12] <philor> jaws: how on earth did you make test_memoryReporters.xul permabusted on linux64 on aurora?
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# [05:15] <jrmuizel> philor: ?
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# [05:16] <philor> jrmuizel: which part?
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# [05:17] <jrmuizel> philor: I just realized what happened on bug 745818
# [05:17] <philor> ah
# [05:17] <jrmuizel> philor: I had no idea that had even been pushed
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# [05:31] <jdm> ehsan_: so, I assumed we would want two media caches for the same reason we have two network cache sessions
# [05:32] <jdm> oh look, you commented
# [05:33] <jdm> ehsan_: it's worth finding out what happens if a user is watching something that is cached and closes the last PB window
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# [05:34] <ehsan_> jdm: the cache will just get cleared
# [05:34] <ehsan_> jdm: which leads to bad perf
# [05:34] <ehsan_> but that is also true tosay
# [05:34] <ehsan_> *today
# [05:34] <ehsan_> and so far I have not heard anyone complain
# [05:35] <jdm> ehsan_: I guess we deal with the situation where we lose the data source?
# [05:35] <ehsan_> yeah
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# [07:05] <nigelb> ws 36
# [07:05] <nigelb> gah
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# [07:22] <jlebar|mac> Um.
# [07:23] <jlebar|mac> Suddenly all my builds are hanging in rsync -a ../../dist/bin ../../dist/Nightly.app/Contents/MacOS.
# [07:23] <jlebar|mac> rsync spins at 25% CPU, build never finishes.
# [07:23] <jlebar|mac> Even when I clobber.
# [07:26] <nthomas> hard drive/file system doesn't sound very healthy
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# [07:27] <jlebar|mac> nthomas: Hm, I may have been out of disk space. o.O
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# [07:29] <nthomas> so I was kinda right
# [07:29] <jlebar|mac> nthomas: Indeed, you helped me figure it out!
# [07:29] <KWierso> clobber the whole drive!
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# [07:35] <smontagu> is it just me, or does anybody else hate "warning: suggest parentheses around '&&' within '||'"?
# [07:35] <biesi> no, I wish people followed that suggestion
# [07:36] <jdm> ^
# [07:36] <nigelb> ;
# [07:37] <jduell> biesi: hey, do you have any recommendation for the Metalink guy?
# [07:37] <biesi> jduell, I need to read those emails
# [07:37] <biesi> I have a feeling he's the guy who I've talked to a couple years ago on this topic
# [07:38] <jduell> biesi: ok. Basically I think his code needs to live somewhere outside necko, like the download mgr
# [07:38] <jduell> It's not really necko
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# [07:38] <jduell> but I don't know who to point him at
# [07:38] <biesi> yeah
# [07:38] <biesi> sorry, now is not a good time
# [07:39] <jduell> mmK
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# [08:12] <@khuey> http://i.imgur.com/XOF8A.png
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# [08:24] <nthomas> well done norton
# [08:24] <nthomas> *cluestick*
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# [08:31] <Callek> O WTF :/
# [08:31] * Callek checks his norton
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# [08:32] <Callek> oo good that didn't happen to me
# [08:32] <Callek> --also I hate norton
# [08:32] <KWierso> wuts a norton
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# [08:35] <philor> guy who lived upstairs from Ralph
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# [08:45] <philor> whee, I'm off the beta hook
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# [08:56] <gcp> does Sync store favicons?
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# [09:40] <Ms2ger> http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2lgyg4nlL1rqvy12o1_1280.jpg
# [09:41] * nthomas is now known as nthomas|away
# [09:42] <jdm> that one made me frown
# [09:42] <Ms2ger> Oh, I thought that was an accurate photo
# [09:44] <nigelb> heh
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# [09:45] <nigelb> Ms2ger++
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# [09:48] <@smaug> masayuki: thanks. I think that .modifiers will make the code less error prone
# [09:48] <@smaug> masayuki: and less thing to do when keyboard events are done
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# [09:49] <smontagu> hmm, so I can either reboot into windows, apply patch, build, test, etc. etc. etc, or just launch another tryserver build and wait for results. it's a tossup which will be slower
# [09:49] <@khuey> this time of day?
# [09:49] <@khuey> tryserver, most likely
# [09:50] <smontagu> you mean ... will be slower or will be better?
# [09:51] <@khuey> faster
# [09:51] <@khuey> is what I meant
# [09:51] <@khuey> because I only skimmed your question ;-)
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# [09:51] <smontagu> khuey--
# [09:51] <smontagu> for inattention in class
# [09:51] <Ms2ger> I'll join that
# [09:51] <Ms2ger> khuey--
# [09:52] <@khuey> lol
# [09:52] <@khuey> you're ++ me again when I land my patch that makes addons not leak
# [09:53] <smontagu> will it make firebug not leak?
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# [09:53] <@khuey> excellent question
# [09:53] <@khuey> probably not fully
# [09:53] <@khuey> because firebug is crazy
# [09:53] <@khuey> actually, it'll probably break firebug
# [09:53] <@khuey> don't tell anyone ;-)
# [09:53] <smontagu> lol, for that you want ++?
# [09:54] <@khuey> yes!
# [09:54] * smontagu thinks that one through
# [09:54] <smontagu> khuey++
# [09:54] <jlebar|mac> It may actually make it much easier for them to find their leaks.
# [09:55] <@khuey> firebug does some crazy things that this won't help
# [09:55] <jlebar|mac> "It's a feature that your add-on is broken!"
# [09:55] <@khuey> like store all the network data in pipes
# [09:55] <Ms2ger> Firebug - no longer leaking!
# [09:55] <Ms2ger> Or debugging!
# [09:55] * @khuey doesn't see the problem
# [09:56] <@smaug> khuey's patch will probably make geolocation not leak horribly, bug 745744
# [09:56] <@smaug> khuey: the patch helps only when tab is closed?
# [09:56] <@khuey> smaug: no, it helps when the page is navigated too
# [09:56] <@khuey> smaug: we kill references to everything except the Window on navigation, and the Window on tab close
# [09:56] <@smaug> khuey: when innerwindow is deleted?
# [09:57] <@smaug> er
# [09:57] <@smaug> you mean when innerwindow is deleted
# [09:57] <@smaug> hmm
# [09:57] <@khuey> not deleted, torn down
# [09:57] <@khuey> in FreeInnerObjects
# [09:57] <@smaug> right
# [09:57] <@smaug> but it doesn't affect to bfcache'd stuff
# [09:57] <@khuey> and we kill references to the Window object in SetDocShell(null)
# [09:57] <@khuey> it shouldn't, I think
# [09:58] <@smaug> though
# [09:58] <@smaug> that doesn't matter
# [09:58] <@smaug> bfcached documents don't go to CC graph
# [09:58] <@khuey> smaug: is 745744 reproducible?
# [09:58] <@smaug> khuey:very much so
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# [09:59] <@khuey> smaug: ok, I'll test in my build
# [09:59] <@smaug> not sure what happens in that case
# [09:59] <@smaug> hmm
# [10:00] <@smaug> khuey: your patch does some xray magic?
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# [10:00] <@smaug> khuey: the problem with geolocation is actually that C++ keeps some content JS alive, and chrome JS keeps that C++ alive
# [10:01] <@smaug> so, perhaps it doesn't help here
# [10:01] <@khuey> smaug: I don't think it will
# [10:01] <@khuey> it only helps chrome JS -> content JS leaks
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# [10:09] <Ms2ger> "Missing critical functionalities and frustrating bugs are not solved yet"
# [10:09] <Ms2ger> Thank you, very helpful bug
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# [10:19] <darktrojan> I think I'll write an addon to purge the internet of "login" and "logout"
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# [10:20] <darktrojan> maybe it should be called arewegramaticallycorrectyet
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# [10:52] <gabor> are there any windows user here? I would love to know what they use instead of hg qrecord
# [10:54] <gabor> I'm trying to find a way to manage mercurial patches line by line / chunk by chunk
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# [11:47] <AryehGregor> ehsan_, but you're probably not around on weekends from 2 AM to 10 AM your time, which is around when I work . . . we should be able to chat at the end of my workday, I guess, since you're at least on the East Coast.
# [11:47] <AryehGregor> Well, maybe.
# [11:48] <AryehGregor> Since IIRC, Mozilla Toronto only starts at 10 AM, or at least that's when they started when I was there.
# [11:48] <AryehGregor> And starting next week I'm in Hebrew language training from like 3 to 6 my time, so there goes any overlap . . . I might just have to log on in the evenings sometimes.
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# [11:50] <msucan> i can no longer build firefox. can someone please look into these errors? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1574496
# [11:52] <@smaug> msucan: use gcc
# [11:52] <@smaug> I assume you're using clang
# [11:52] <msucan> smaug: yes, i use clang
# [11:52] <@smaug> I don't know what broke
# [11:52] <@smaug> but I couldn't build with clang either
# [11:53] <@smaug> (and since clang is a bit broken anyway, I did switch back to gcc )
# [11:53] <msucan> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694594
# [11:53] <msucan> i can't really build with gcc 4.4.3
# [11:54] <@smaug> isn't gcc 4.4.* old
# [11:54] <msucan> ubuntu 10.04 lts
# [11:54] <msucan> will upgrade very soon
# [11:54] <msucan> but not quite yet
# [11:54] <gcp> Android uses gcc 4.4
# [11:54] <@smaug> but someone should fix the clang build problem
# [11:54] <@smaug> surkov: do you happen to know about it
# [11:55] <@smaug> it is something about a11y
# [11:55] <@smaug> I think
# [11:55] <msucan> yep
# [11:55] <surkov> smaug: yeah, i've got a patch but didn't get a review
# [11:56] <@smaug> msucan: btw, clang seems to create buggy debug code, so gdb may crash when debugging
# [11:56] <@smaug> surkov: bug# ?
# [11:56] <surkov> smaug: bug 743680
# [11:57] <msucan> smaug: i'm working on devtools, i seldom use gdb
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# [11:59] <@smaug> surkov: so why does the clan problem happen?
# [11:59] <surkov> smaug: it sounds it's more restrictive language, dunno
# [12:00] <@smaug> surkov: I guess I could give rs
# [12:00] <surkov> smaug: ok, go ahead, I'll land it
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# [12:01] <@smaug> surkov: done
# [12:01] <surkov> thx!
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# [12:02] <@smaug> msucan: could you re-pull after surkov has landed the fix
# [12:02] <msucan> yes, i will repull
# [12:02] <msucan> thanks a lot smaug and surkov !
# [12:03] <@smaug> surkov: msucan: make sure you deal with the same tree :)
# [12:04] <surkov> msucan, smaug landed on inbound
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# [12:04] <msucan> great! :)
# [12:04] <msucan> i'm dealing with fxteam, but i think i can monkey patch my local tree with mq
# [12:05] <@smaug> ( m-i is the one tree I don't ever use. But, since I use gcc, I don't care :) )
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# [12:08] <@smaug> and now, time to understand this tricky 3 line patch
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# [12:12] <@smaug> hsivonen: so, what does StartSpan do
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# [12:14] <@smaug> ah, nm
# [12:14] <AryehGregor> Is there a way to run a single reftest?
# [12:14] <@smaug> perhaps it should have more descriptive name
# [12:14] <Ms2ger> Only if you write a .list
# [12:15] * AryehGregor grumbles at layout/reftests/bugs/ being huge
# [12:15] <smontagu> or create a .list by grep or something
# [12:16] <AryehGregor> What do you mean?
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# [12:17] <smontagu> what I typically do is |grep 123456 layout/reftests/bugs/reftest.list > layout/reftest/bugs/reftest.tmp|
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# [12:17] <AryehGregor> Hmm, interesting.
# [12:18] <AryehGregor> Seems to work. Thanks.
# [12:18] <smontagu> np
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# [12:20] <@smaug> hsivonen: so, could you explain mCurrentRun = CurrentNode();
# [12:22] <@smaug> hsivonen: would it make sense to have a helper method which does
# [12:22] <@smaug> EndCharacters();
# [12:22] <@smaug> StartSpan();
# [12:22] <@smaug> mCurrentRun = CurrentNode();
# [12:22] <@smaug> and give some descriptive name for that
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# [12:30] <AryehGregor> What should indentation style be for complicated nested conditions?
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# [12:32] <Ms2ger> A helper function? :à
# [12:32] <Ms2ger> :)
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# [12:36] <AryehGregor> When I do qpush and there's a conflict, hg generates a .rej file for all the rejected chunks. How can I get it to insert merge markers into the conflicted files instead?
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# [12:38] * NeilAway doesn't think you can get around that, due to the way qpush works
# [12:38] <gcp> merge? ahahahha
# [12:38] <gcp> you can only merge in real version control systems. hg mq is not one of them.
# [12:39] <AryehGregor> Are conflict markers really too much to ask for?
# [12:41] <gcp> they need a 3-way merge, don't they?
# [12:41] <AryehGregor> Oh, bah.
# [12:41] <@smaug> Ms2ger: so, you tested intersectsNode with other browsers too?
# [12:41] <AryehGregor> Grrrrr.
# [12:41] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor did!
# [12:41] <AryehGregor> What does this line do if it doesn't allow three-way merges? # Parent c61e7c3a232aad0d8fb1bc2455487ce61dd9e182
# [12:42] <gcp> manage tip/qtip? no idea
# [12:44] <hsivonen> smaug: mCurrentRun = CurrentNode() means "let the current run be the one that gets colored red if there are errors between now and the next time a new potentially-red run in started
# [12:44] <hsivonen> "
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# [12:44] <@smaug> Ms2ger: so, what happens if you have range with document as root, and pass document as parameter
# [12:45] <hsivonen> smaug: naming the fonction would be awkward if those three lines were a method
# [12:45] <hsivonen> EndCharactersAndStartMarkupRun?
# [12:45] <@smaug> Ms2ger: NS_ERROR_DOM_NOT_FOUND_ERR would be thrown ?
# [12:46] <Ms2ger> NotFoundError (Issue: All implementations throw in this case, but would it make more sense to simply return true?)
# [12:46] <@smaug> hsivonen: well, looks like the fact that those 3 lines aren't a method caused the bug, at least partially
# [12:47] <@smaug> Ms2ger: yeah, NotFoundError is silly
# [12:47] <@smaug> AryehGregor: why is that happening ^
# [12:47] <Ms2ger> Because that's what everyone does :)
# [12:47] <AryehGregor> smaug, http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/dom-core.html#dom-range-intersectsnode
# [12:47] <AryehGregor> See the FIXME.
# [12:47] <AryehGregor> There's a bug filed.
# [12:48] <AryehGregor> IMO it's a bug.
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# [12:48] * AryehGregor doesn't see a bug filed
# [12:49] <AryehGregor> I'm happy to change the spec/tests, I just didn't want to go against all implementations.
# [12:49] <@smaug> Ms2ger: AryehGregor: it seems like a silly bug, which should be fixed
# [12:49] <@smaug> currently Webkit and Opera support this method?
# [12:50] <AryehGregor> Yes.
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# [12:51] <mats> Ms2ger: I'm leaving bug 745453 in your hands now ;-)
# [12:53] <Ms2ger> I hate you
# [12:53] <Ms2ger> Off to next class, bbiab
# [12:55] <@smaug> hsivonen: EndCharactersAndStartMarkupRun would be ok
# [12:55] <@smaug> a bit long
# [12:55] <@smaug> but works
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# [12:55] <jfkthame> Standard8: you seem to have an awful lot of mochitest orange on inbound :(
# [12:55] <hsivonen> smaug: ok. I'll make a new patch
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# [12:57] <Standard8> jfkthame: oh weird
# [12:57] <Standard8> not convinced this is mine
# [12:58] <Standard8> oh maybe it is
# [12:58] <jfkthame> an unexpected uncaught JS exception reported through window.onerror - ReferenceError: pref is not defined at chrome://mochitests/content/browser/toolkit/mozapps/extensions/test/browser-window/browser_globalwarnings.js:30
# [12:58] <jfkthame> you touched that file.....
# [12:59] <Standard8> yeah I was looking at the osx debug one first
# [12:59] <Standard8> which is something else
# [12:59] <Standard8> hmm
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# [12:59] <Standard8> guess who only ran xpcshell tests when pushing to try :-(
# [12:59] <jfkthame> is there a prize for guessing right? :)
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# [13:00] <Standard8> ah, that's an easy fix
# [13:00] <Standard8> hmm
# [13:00] <Standard8> browser_searching as well
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# [13:03] <Ms2ger> mats, wait, so what are you saying?
# [13:03] <Ms2ger> mats, Norton crashes all builds on a cx->runtime->requestDepth || cx->runtime->gcRunning assert?
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# [13:04] <mats> Ms2ger: yes, all mozilla-beta debug builds that I tested (all the way back to Fx12b1)
# [13:04] <Ms2ger> Blocklist it
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# [13:05] <mats> Ms2ger: fine with me, you should tell akeybl that...
# [13:06] <@smaug> mats: could you clarify your comment in the bug
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# [13:06] <@smaug> since that kind of assertion sounds like, well, bad
# [13:06] <mats> Ms2ger: any idea why it works in Opt builds in revs prior to yours?
# [13:06] <Ms2ger> No
# [13:06] <Ms2ger> Sheer luck, I think
# [13:08] <@smaug> mats: do you get some useful stack trace for the assertion?
# [13:11] <mats> Ms2ger: looks like a call to JS_DefineFunction from Norton binary plugin code
# [13:11] <Ms2ger> mats, I guessed it was something like that
# [13:11] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, did you say there was a bug number for the NotFoundError
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# [13:11] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, I thought there was, but I didn't find it.
# [13:12] <Ms2ger> smaug, could you file one?
# [13:12] <@smaug> Ms2ger: AryehGregor: ok, I'll file one
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# [13:31] <AryehGregor> Drat, orange.
# [13:31] <AryehGregor> On inbound.
# [13:31] * AryehGregor looks
# [13:31] <AryehGregor> Oh, not mine.
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# [13:34] <@smaug> hmm, do I want to land Bug 740063 after all
# [13:37] <msucan> do we have clang build machines on tbpl?
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# [13:43] <Ms2ger> smaug, yes, and Element::AsDOMElement :)
# [13:45] <mounir> Ms2ger: I don't think so
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# [13:52] <Ms2ger> mounir?
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# [13:57] <mounir> msucan: ^
# [13:58] <mounir> Ms2ger: sorry
# [13:58] <msucan> mounir: thanks for the info
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# [13:59] <Ms2ger> We don't indeed
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# [14:02] <msucan> we should have...
# [14:03] <nigelb> especially for those of us with "It's complicated" relationship status with gcc.
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# [14:09] <msucan> smaug: surkov i still get /usr/bin/ld.bfd.real: libxul.so: hidden symbol `_ZN12nsAccessible4RoleEv' isn't defined
# [14:09] <msucan> with clang
# [14:09] <msucan> but the nsAccessible::Role() error is gone
# [14:10] <surkov> msucan: could you comment into bug 743680 please?
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# [14:11] <surkov> honestly I don't have idea what _ZN12nsAccessible4RoleEv could be
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# [14:12] <@roc> fun. other A/V software (Avast) is patching our code to intercept all calls to JS_EvaluateUCScriptForPrincipalsVersion and do something with them.
# [14:13] <@roc> and sometimes crashing in the patched code.
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# [14:14] <@smaug> roc: huh
# [14:15] <@roc> we should put together a Hall Of Shame for all the crazy stuff A/V software has done to us over the years (and is still doing)
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# [14:16] <mounir> roc: why do we want to limit to A/V, Skype did a great job to be in that Hall of Shame too
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# [14:17] <@roc> as a class of software, A/V seems to be the worst
# [14:17] <@smaug> Skype still probably holds the the-addon-which-slows-down-browser-the-most record
# [14:18] <@smaug> I mean the old version of Skype
# [14:18] <@roc> true
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# [14:19] <mounir> Skype already owns the worst-application-I-have-to-use-on-my-laptop price
# [14:20] <@smaug> it is strange that addon developers don't seem to ask us too often new APIs or how to implement certain things efficiently
# [14:20] <@smaug> mounir: Skype isn't too bad in general.
# [14:20] <Ms2ger> What do we think about AVG enabling DNT by default, btw?
# [14:21] <@smaug> what?
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# [14:21] <@smaug> Ms2ger: it does that?
# [14:21] <@roc> that seems wrong
# [14:21] <Ms2ger> It even shows a pop-up to tell you about it
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# [14:22] <mounir> smaug: on my laptop, it is crashing like hell
# [14:22] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: is there a bug on file? that seems serious considering that that sort of thing could undermine DNT as a whole
# [14:22] <Ms2ger> Hrm
# [14:22] <@roc> yeah
# [14:22] <mounir> smaug: I sometimes have to launch it five time in a row to have it finally run
# [14:22] <Ms2ger> Unless what it calls Do-Not-Track isn't DNT
# [14:22] <@smaug> mounir: on this laptop it used to crash all the time, but now it mysteriously stabilized :)
# [14:22] <hsivonen> roc: yes, please. (for a Hall of Shame)
# [14:22] <@smaug> I haven't updated it, since there are now updates to linux skype
# [14:22] <@smaug> s/now/no/
# [14:23] <mounir> smaug: I think Linux Skype is going to disappear
# [14:23] <@smaug> possible
# [14:23] <mounir> we will have to use Vidyo ... :D
# [14:23] <@smaug> I hope we have WebRTC working before skype dies :)
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# [14:23] <hsivonen> I wonder if Microsoft's Skype-in-browser project is going to use WebRTC
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# [14:25] <@roc> what project
# [14:25] <@roc> ?
# [14:25] <@roc> Skype is involved in WebRTC, but who can predict what MS will do
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# [14:27] <hsivonen> roc: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/04/microsoft-job-ads-reveal-html5-version-of-skype-coming-to-browsers.ars
# [14:28] <msucan> surkov: commented
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# [14:30] <msucan> i just tested building with gcc on two different machines. clang builds much faster for me, on both machines. this seems to be yet another reason why i'd like to continue building with clang
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# [14:30] <surkov> msucan: thank you
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# [14:32] <Ms2ger> Gah
# [14:32] <Ms2ger> "d. You acknowledge that the Feature is using W3C DNT protocol to inform services that you do not want to be tracked. No further information is transmitted in such communication."
# [14:32] <Ms2ger> hsivonen, where should I file?
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# [14:37] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: Plugins: AVG AV, I suppose
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# [14:38] <@roc> I don't even understand why they would want to do that
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# [14:51] <sheppy> Totally off-topic question. If I have a check for $X and need to know what the cost pre-sales-tax was, what do I do?
# [14:52] <sheppy> My math skills have atrophied. :)
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# [14:52] <nigelb> sheppy: what's the tax %?
# [14:52] <sheppy> 8.25%
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# [14:53] <dwarfcrank> divide by 1.0825
# [14:53] <nigelb> yeah, what dwarfcrank said.
# [14:54] <nigelb> I needed a pen and paper for that. damn.
# [14:54] <dwarfcrank> Haha
# [14:54] <dwarfcrank> I had a math lecture today so I still know my math, somewhat :)
# [14:54] <@smaug> javascript: urls are for doing simple math ;)
# [14:54] <nigelb> well, to be fair, I'm debugging JS.
# [14:54] <sheppy> Heh. Awesome, thanks :)
# [14:54] <nigelb> So, thinking of multiple things at the same time.
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# [14:54] <dwarfcrank> smaug: Psh, irssi has /calc :)
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# [14:56] <@smaug> chatzilla has /eval
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# [14:59] <sheppy> My Mac has Calculator.
# [14:59] <@smaug> looks like /eval executed code in some strange context
# [14:59] <@smaug> bah
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# [14:59] <@smaug> too difficult to use
# [14:59] <sheppy> What, /eval or Calculator? :)
# [15:00] <@smaug> Calculator
# [15:00] * sheppy manages to partially drown on his Diet Dr. Pepper.
# [15:00] <@smaug> it is slower to use than /eval or javascript:
# [15:00] <sheppy> Ouch.
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# [15:00] <@smaug> I do use javascript: all the time for math
# [15:00] <sheppy> smaug: not when your keyboard has a hotkey to pull Calculator to the front instantly :)
# [15:00] <sheppy> I occasionally use Google for math. :)
# [15:01] <sheppy> I love that if you feed Google an equation, it'll graph it for you, in 3D using WebGL if appropriate. :)
# [15:01] <@smaug> Google is so yesterday :p
# [15:01] <sheppy> Heh
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# [15:02] <sheppy> Tell that to our accounting department. :)
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# [15:08] <nigelb> sheppy: ZING
# [15:08] <nigelb> Good one :)
# [15:08] <sheppy> nigelb: I do what I can. :)
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# [15:09] <nigelb> heh
# [15:09] <NeilAway> smaug: what sort of context were you looking for? I guess it wouldn't be useful if you accidentally overwrote cz's variables
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# [15:18] <@smaug> NeilAway: in /eval there is some Cz variables
# [15:18] <@smaug> I was expecting some sandbox
# [15:19] <@smaug> NeilAway: well, 'this' has all sorts of Cz variables
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# [15:26] <gabor> ochameau: hey there... do you plan to do any lighting talks?
# [15:27] <Wes> There can be only one!
# [15:27] <Wes> ZZzzzzZZzzzzzjzzjnnznznznnnrrt!
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# [15:32] <NeilAway> smaug: hmm, I think "this" represents the selected chatzilla tab
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# [15:38] <hsivonen> aargh. I have more readyState stuff to fix still. the patch I landed this morning did look suspiciously simple
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# [15:40] <curtisk> can anyone tell me how to search bugzilla for a date range when a keyword is set?
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# [15:40] <curtisk> nm, just found it, thanks
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# [15:44] <mounir> am i the only person that needs to wait quite a few long seconds with nothing happening when running a mochitest?
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# [15:49] <mounir> smaug: ping
# [15:50] <@smaug> mounir: pong
# [15:51] <mounir> smaug: hmm, I think I find the answer... but I can still ask ;)
# [15:51] <mounir> I was wondering what was the difference between |target| and |originalTarget| in nsEvent
# [15:51] <mounir> given that in nsIDOMEvent |target| is the original target
# [15:51] <mounir> but I guess the platform might redirect some events without showing that to the content
# [15:51] <@smaug> originalTarget may point to anonymous content
# [15:52] <@smaug> target may be re-set when event propagates through anonymous boundary
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# [15:53] <mounir> smaug: so an event that goes to <input> which have anonymous content will have originalTarget being the anonymous content and target being the input element itself?
# [15:54] <@smaug> yes, in many cases
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# [15:55] <@smaug> ofc you can dispatch the event to input element, in which case it is the originalTarget
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# [16:03] <mounir> smaug: do you feel like reviewing a patch regarding focus handling and touching nsEventStateManager.cpp?
# [16:04] <@smaug> mounir: sound like a patch I or Enn should review
# [16:05] <AryehGregor> smaug, could I have your opinion on <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=702948#c5>?
# [16:07] <@smaug> AryehGregor: could we add Telemetry probes
# [16:07] <AryehGregor> smaug, I have no idea how telemetry works.
# [16:08] <@smaug> AryehGregor: let me find some example
# [16:08] <froydnj> AryehGregor: not that hard to figure out. what's the bug #?
# [16:08] <AryehGregor> froydnj, for what?
# [16:08] <@smaug> it is like http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/base/src/nsXMLHttpRequest.cpp#1801
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# [16:09] <@smaug> AryehGregor: I think you'd need to add a boolean member variable to nsRange
# [16:09] <@smaug> and in the dtor have something like Telemetry::Accumulate(Telemetry::RANGE_DETACH, mDetachCalled ? 1 : 0);
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# [16:10] <@smaug> that would count all the range objects
# [16:10] <AryehGregor> smaug, isn't mIsDetached sufficient?
# [16:11] <@smaug> er, if there is such, then yes :)
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# [16:11] <AryehGregor> Also, how do we interpret the results? We know in advance the percentage of ranges that are detached will be vanishingly small. At what point is it small enough that we don't care?
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# [16:12] <@smaug> AryehGregor: well, that is something we don't know
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# [16:12] <@smaug> because we don't knkow how often detach is used
# [16:12] <AryehGregor> Most ranges are probably generated behind the scenes for some purpose or other . . . like, do we create a range when the selection is accessed automatically, or things like that?
# [16:12] <AryehGregor> I did a Google Code search and didn't find anything.
# [16:12] <@smaug> Google Code doesn't find all
# [16:12] <AryehGregor> Could we just make it a no-op? What negative effect could that have? Someone calls detach() and tries to access the range and their page breaks because an exception is no longer thrown?
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# [16:13] <AryehGregor> I really think it's safe to just try making detach() a no-op on m-c and see what happens.
# [16:13] <AryehGregor> There's no reason any normal author would ever learn about detach(), since it's useless . . .
# [16:13] <@smaug> it is useless, tru
# [16:13] <@smaug> e
# [16:13] <@smaug> but people do use useless stuff
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# [16:14] <AryehGregor> Okay, but is this really so high-risk? How likely is *preventing* an exception to break a page, for something that probably almost no one ever uses anyway?
# [16:14] <@smaug> given that removing taintEnabled() - which is no-op, caused major regressions, I would be quite careful
# [16:14] <AryehGregor> I'm suggesting we make detach() a no-op, not that we remove it.
# [16:14] <AryehGregor> At least for now.
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# [16:14] <AryehGregor> So it won't cause exceptions to be thrown.
# [16:15] <AryehGregor> It will only cause exceptions *not* to be thrown.
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# [16:15] <AryehGregor> Since currently all detach() does is make every subsequent Range operation throw.
# [16:15] <@smaug> adding a telemetry probe should be like... 3 lines code
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# [16:15] <@smaug> we could just have that for some time and see if something unexpected happens
# [16:16] <@smaug> s/happens/gets revealed/
# [16:16] <AryehGregor> Can telemetry tell us what percentage of users have nonzero values for the probe? I.e., what percentage of users visited at least one page that called detach()?
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# [16:17] <@smaug> it would tell what percentage of range objects have detach called
# [16:17] <lmandel> AryehGregor: No. In general Telemetry should not be used to ask broad questions about the Firefox population as Telemetry has a low opt-in rate.
# [16:17] <@smaug> at least the simplest form of telemetry probe
# [16:17] <AryehGregor> lmandel, even for our sample size, I'm saying. Can we answer the question "what percentage of users in our sample visited a page that called detach() at least once"?
# [16:18] <lmandel> AryehGregor: Yes. If you scope it to the sample.
# [16:18] <AryehGregor> E.g., add a probe to the detach() code, and figure out what percentile have that probe == 0?
# [16:18] <lmandel> Again, just keep in mind that the Telemetry population may not be indicative of the general Firefox population.
# [16:18] <AryehGregor> That's fine.
# [16:18] <@smaug> AryehGregor: in that case you'd have to add something to document
# [16:18] <AryehGregor> I don't think we need to use telemetry here at all. :)
# [16:18] <AryehGregor> smaug, what do you mean?
# [16:19] <@smaug> AryehGregor: if you want to know "what percentage of users in our sample visited a page that called detach() at least once"
# [16:19] <@smaug> there can be several range objects per page
# [16:19] <AryehGregor> Put another way: "what percentage of users in our sample had detach() called on some range, ever, in their entire sampled browsing history".
# [16:20] <@smaug> yeah, in that case adding the probe to range dtor would work
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# [16:23] <@smaug> mounir: very much something for Enn
# [16:24] <mounir> smaug: feel free to redirect ;)
# [16:24] <AryehGregor> I'll add it to nsRange::Detach, so it doesn't have to be called on every single range destruction.
# [16:24] <mounir> smaug: so, it's for Enn but you did r+?
# [16:24] <AryehGregor> We don't need to know how many un-detached ranges were destroyed.
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# [16:25] <@smaug> mounir: yes
# [16:25] <@smaug> AryehGregor: the whole point is to know how may ranges there have been
# [16:25] <mounir> smaug: awesome, thanks :)
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# [16:25] <@smaug> AryehGregor: and how many of those have detach called
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# [16:26] <AryehGregor> Why? If a page calls detach() once and will now break because it throws, it doesn't matter if it creates zero additional ranges or a million.
# [16:26] <@smaug> AryehGregor: that way we can know that x% of all the range objects had detach called
# [16:26] <AryehGregor> Why does that help us? Ranges that didn't have detach called aren't relevant to whether we can safely remove detach.
# [16:26] <AryehGregor> Only ranges that had it called will be affected.
# [16:27] <AryehGregor> What would be useful is if we knew "99.6% of users never visited a page that called detach() over the course of the study".
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# [16:28] <@smaug> I don't understand what you're trying to collect
# [16:29] <AryehGregor> (unrelated: how did this slip through without "r=" in the commit message? I thought that was enforced pre-commit. https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/fcf55cbcd2fb )
# [16:29] <@smaug> it would be useful to know that 99.99% of ranges didn't have detach called
# [16:29] <AryehGregor> Why?
# [16:29] <@smaug> it would indicate that detach is used very rarely
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# [16:30] <AryehGregor> If every page on the web created 1,000,000 ranges and detached one of them, you would find that 99.9999% of ranges weren't detached. But removing detach() would break every page on the web.
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# [16:30] <AryehGregor> What we care about is how many pages call detach() at all. I bet that most users never visit a page that calls detach().
# [16:30] <AryehGregor> So that's what I'm trying to gather.
# [16:31] <@smaug> AryehGregor: ok, if you want to know about pages, then you need to count something else
# [16:31] <AryehGregor> I want to know about users.
# [16:31] <@smaug> you need to add something to document object
# [16:31] <AryehGregor> I bet 99% of users never have detach() called at all in any page.
# [16:31] <AryehGregor> If it turns out 30% of users have detach() called somewhere at least once, then you're right, more detailed analysis will be needed (number of pages, etc.).
# [16:31] <@smaug> I'd like be more sure that that 99% is actually true
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# [16:32] <AryehGregor> What?
# [16:33] <@smaug> AryehGregor: if you add the probe to dtor, you get the same information as what you'd get if it was in detach(), but you get also information about how often detach() is called
# [16:33] <@smaug> basically, what is the harm to add probe to dtor
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# [16:34] <AryehGregor> It doesn't matter much either way, it's just noise. What's the harm to only put it in Detach()?
# [16:34] <@smaug> you get less data
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# [16:35] <AryehGregor> What do we need the data for? I mean, if you really want it in the dtor, I'll add it, but I think it will just make the results more confusing.
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# [16:35] <AryehGregor> Do most nsRanges even have a reference taken to them from JS such that .detach() could possibly be called on them?
# [16:35] <AryehGregor> Or are they mostly created and destroyed by C++ without JS ever touching them?
# [16:36] <@smaug> we don't know
# [16:36] <mak> so, what's Tp5 Row Major measuring?
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# [16:36] <mak> the name doesn't help much
# [16:36] <AryehGregor> So then how will we interpret the number?
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# [16:37] <mimcpher> What does "System Principal" mean in about:memory?
# [16:37] <@smaug> AryehGregor: interpreting is hard. But just to get some data that detach() isn't used too often
# [16:37] <@smaug> right now we don't have much evidence
# [16:38] <@smaug> other than google code doesn't seem to find usage, and we think the method is useless
# [16:38] <AryehGregor> Where is telemetry data posted?
# [16:38] <@smaug> https://metrics.mozilla.com/data/
# [16:38] <@smaug> which seems to be down now :/
# [16:38] <AryehGregor> We don't need to know how often it's *not* used, only how often it's used . . . but okay, fine, I can put it in the destructor if you want.
# [16:38] <AryehGregor> Error 102 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED): The server refused the connection.
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# [16:41] <lmandel> smaug, AryehGregor: metrics is down today as the machines are moving to the new datacenter. All should be back up tomorrow.
# [16:41] <AryehGregor> Okay, thanks.
# [16:42] <AryehGregor> Hmm, two questions: does Telemetry::Accumulate have noticeable overhead? And do I have to worry about overflow?
# [16:42] <AryehGregor> For all I know, some pages might create millions of nsRanges somehow -- is the accumulation stored in a 32-bit value, 64-bit, or what?
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# [16:44] <@smaug> AryehGregor: 32bit IIRC
# [16:45] <AryehGregor> Are we sure that won't overflow if we increment it on every nsRange destruction?
# [16:45] <hsivonen> I wish we hadn't allowed the landing of readyState without assertions that the transitions are sane
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# [16:46] <@smaug> AryehGregor: why would any page create millions of ranges?
# [16:47] <AryehGregor> smaug, I have no idea, but I'm not going to count on them not doing so. Especially since I don't know what creates and destroys ranges.
# [16:47] <AryehGregor> But okay.
# [16:48] <@smaug> AryehGregor: if we're lucky, we get the result that in practice detach() is never used
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# [16:48] <AryehGregor> smaug, okay, patch submitted.
# [16:49] <mconnor> johnath: you meant "flag" instead of "bug" in that email, I assume?
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# [16:50] <johnath> mconnor: totes.
# [16:51] <mconnor> johnath: if alex needs quick turnaround, you know where to find me
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# [16:53] <philor> what are the odds that we have Birch doing PGO?
# [16:53] <AryehGregor> testing/marionette/atoms/atoms.js uses detach(), interestingly.
# [16:53] <AryehGregor> (but wouldn't be harmed by making it a no-op)
# [16:55] <philor> ah, zero, that should provide some added fun
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# [17:00] <froydnj> ehsan: what is this birch repo normally used for anyway?
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# [17:02] <mak> mfinkle: ping
# [17:02] <mfinkle> makpong
# [17:02] <mfinkle> mak
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# [17:03] <mak> mfinkle: ehr wait, I thought I had a security fix to mark from you but I must have done something wrong...
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# [17:03] <mak> mfinkle: heh, nevermind, was the push before yours, sorry.
# [17:04] <mfinkle> k
# [17:04] <jfkthame> froydnj: it's one of the "disposable" project branches - https://wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseEngineering/DisposableProjectBranches
# [17:04] <mak> though smaug can mark that
# [17:04] <mak> smaug: could you please mark https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f59dff115daa?
# [17:04] <catlee-buildduty> we cna turn on PGO there if required
# [17:05] <froydnj> jfkthame: thanks!
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# [17:06] <@smaug> mak: mark?
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# [17:07] <mak> smaug: yes, annotate the merge and resolve the bug, I can't access that bug
# [17:07] <mak> please
# [17:07] <@smaug> uh, what, I can't access the bug
# [17:07] <@smaug> does it have wrong bug#
# [17:07] <mak> ...
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# [17:08] * mak looking
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# [17:08] <@smaug> mak: bug 745266 is the right onw
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# [17:08] <@smaug> one
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# [17:08] <@smaug> why I can't access bug 745255
# [17:08] <mak> yeah, found it too
# [17:09] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: hello
# [17:09] <AryehGregor> ehsan, if you review the new version of <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205485> real quick, I can push a whole bunch of patches to inbound before I'm off for the day. :)
# [17:09] <mak> smaug: thanks, sorry for the ping, thought it was an actual security bug :)
# [17:09] <AryehGregor> (it's a small patch, too)
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# [17:09] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: ok looking
# [17:09] <AryehGregor> (I mean, rather, you've already reviewed it . . .)
# [17:11] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: so, I think we should fix the comm-central caller, but that can be a follow-up bug
# [17:11] <AryehGregor> ehsan, okay.
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# [17:11] <AryehGregor> What should we fix it to do?
# [17:11] <joe> the moment ehsan signs in his computer starts beeping with irc pings
# [17:11] <AryehGregor> I mean, there will be no editor functionality to set the page background color if we remove cmd_backgroundColor.
# [17:12] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: investigate why it is calling that command directly, and see if we can change it so that it does not do that
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# [17:12] <@ehsan> joe: I'm popular :P
# [17:12] <AryehGregor> What do we want it to do instead, just directly set the page background color or such?
# [17:12] * joe sits in his corner
# [17:12] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: maybe
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# [17:12] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: we should probably CC kaze and see what he thinks
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# [17:13] <kaze> AryehGregor: please do :)
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# [17:13] <kaze> actually I'm still in CC of all editor bugs (cool to see AryehGregor working on this!)
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# [17:16] <@ehsan> kaze: this one is about comm-central's editor code
# [17:16] <@ehsan> (which I don't know at all)
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# [17:27] <AryehGregor> ehsan, are we still sure we want to land <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742240>? There might be lots of pages using execCommand() with IE-specific commands that previously did nothing and will now throw for us . . .
# [17:27] <AryehGregor> I'm no longer sure it's a good idea.
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# [17:28] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: yeah, I'm having second thoughts too
# [17:28] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: from a puristic point of view, I think throwing is the Right Thing To Do
# [17:29] * joduinn-coffee is now known as joduinn-commute
# [17:29] <@ehsan> but especially if webkit is not willing to change their behavior, then we may not have enough weight for pushing it through :(
# [17:29] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: previously rniwa had supported throwing in webkit
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# [17:29] <@ehsan> but seems like everybody is having second thoughts now...
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# [17:35] <AryehGregor> ehsan, maybe I'll work on redoing the spec/patch tomorrow.
# [17:35] <AryehGregor> For compat, perhaps it's best not to throw from execCommand() or queryCommandEnabled().
# [17:35] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: alright, sounds good to me
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# [17:36] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: the thing which annoys me is that we're only basing our decisions on feelings, and not data
# [17:36] <AryehGregor> Sure.
# [17:36] <@ehsan> i.e., we don't really know the extent of the web compat risk
# [17:36] <@ehsan> but unless gecko and webkit are both willing to change their behavrior, we'll never know :(
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# [17:36] <AryehGregor> From memory, I strongly suspect there are lots of pages that call certain IE-specific commands unconditionally.
# [17:37] <AryehGregor> I'm quite sure I've seen some while researching.
# [17:37] <AryehGregor> IE has some weird execCommand()s that aren't editing-related at all that random pages call.
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# [17:37] <@ehsan> yeah
# [17:38] <@ehsan> but that wouldn't tell us what will happen if those calls throw
# [17:38] <@ehsan> anyways I think we've beaten this to death
# [17:38] <AryehGregor> Yeah.
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# [17:38] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: time to move on to more important stuff :)
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# [17:39] <AryehGregor> What component is right for comm-central? MailNews Core?
# [17:40] <AryehGregor> Product/Component.
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# [17:40] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: SeaMonkey: Composer iirc
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# [17:42] <WeirdAl> Hey, guys - XULRunner question. I'm running XR from Mac command-line, and the window it opens can't take focus... typing goes to the terminal, for example. Is this because I'm not using --install-app to create an app? (I ask because --install-app seems quite busted right now.)
# [17:42] <NeilAway> mounir: past tense of hit is hit
# [17:42] <NeilAway> WeirdAl: yes
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# [17:43] <WeirdAl> hm, so I really do need to port install-app to python, as bug 741462 suggests
# [17:43] <@smaug> WeirdAl: I thought that happens if you run the binary in a wrong way
# [17:43] <mounir> NeilAway: i wrote "hitted"? :)
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# [17:44] <WeirdAl> smaug: I'm just calling xulrunner --app path/to/application.ini - I get an unfocusable window
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# [17:46] <WeirdAl> and I'm seeing strong evidence that --install-app crashes (but because I can't build debug XR right now, thanks to bug 741456, I can't quite prove it
# [17:46] <WeirdAl> )
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# [17:48] <@smaug> WeirdAl: but which xulrunner are you running
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# [17:48] <WeirdAl> the one from the Aurora SDK
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# [17:48] <@smaug> dist/bin/xulrunner ?
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# [17:49] <@smaug> ah, no idea about that
# [17:49] <WeirdAl> I downloaded the SDK, extracted it, ran bin/xulrunner
# [17:49] <@smaug> not that I've used OSX for ages
# [17:49] <@smaug> oh
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# [17:49] <@smaug> shouldn't you run the one under MacOS/Content/something
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# [17:49] <@smaug> or whatever it is
# [17:50] <gaston> xpidl.IDLError: error: invalid syntax, /var/buildslave-mozilla/comm-central-amd64/build/mozilla/dom/interfaces/core/nsIDOMMutationObserver.idl line 47:0
# [17:50] * @smaug can't remember
# [17:50] <gaston> dictionary MutationObserverInit
# [17:50] <gaston> who should i talk to for that python vomit ?
# [17:50] <@smaug> hmm
# [17:50] <@smaug> gaston: khuey|away
# [17:50] <gaston> ok, thanks :)
# [17:50] <@smaug> gaston: you may need to delete some .pyc files
# [17:50] <gaston> aah, will try a clobber first then
# [17:51] <WeirdAl> smaug: no such beast
# [17:51] <@smaug> gaston: .pyc files can be also in src dir
# [17:51] <gaston> m-c builds fine here but c-c not, that might be a lack of cleanup
# [17:51] <WeirdAl> --install-app is supposed to create one, ironically
# [17:51] <@smaug> ah
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# [17:51] <@smaug> gaston: clobber doesn't remove stuff from src dir
# [17:52] <@smaug> so you may need to do that
# [17:52] <gaston> find . -name *.pyc | xargs rm -f to the rescue!
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# [17:53] <WeirdAl> gaston: that sounds like something that should be part of rules.mk :)
# [17:53] <@smaug> IIRC rm xpcom/idl-parser/*.pyc might be enough
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# [17:53] <gaston> WeirdAl: life would be too boring then :)
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# [17:55] <WeirdAl> NeilAway: thanks for confirmation... nuts
# [17:56] <wesj> mbrubeck: uhmm... so i just pushed an empty patch. how do i cancel builds?
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# [17:58] <mbrubeck> wesj: Don't cancel builds (except on Try) -- it can leave the objdir in a broken/needs-clobber state
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# [17:58] <mbrubeck> Just let 'em run.
# [17:59] <wesj> mbrubeck: ok. thanks.
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# [18:18] <graememcc> mak|afk: test_IE_bookmarks.js is unhappy on inbound since your migrator push
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# [18:22] <mounir> NeilAway: still around?
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# [18:32] <jorendorff> Is there some canonical way for a scrap of chrome JS code to ask whether it's running in the main thread or a worker thread?
# [18:33] <NeilAway> mounir: vageuly
# [18:33] <NeilAway> *vaguely
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# [18:37] <mounir> NeilAway: ok, comments in bug will be fine ;)
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# [18:37] <jorendorff> I'll just tell Yoric to check whether Components is defined. If that's unacceptably hacky, feel free to speak up. :)
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# [18:44] * mak looks into the orange
# [18:44] <mak> stupid sync tests
# [18:45] <sheppy> mak: solution: stop testing sync!
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# [18:45] <mak> no, I mean synchronous, not Sync!
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# [18:45] <sheppy> Oh. :)
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# [19:06] <mak> disalbed test for now, will fix it after dinner.
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# [19:07] <@smaug> hmm, should I fix one firefox bug
# [19:07] <@smaug> sounds scary
# [19:07] <gregglind> how can I tell a switchtab action (in the url bar) apart from others?
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# [19:08] <zpao> gregglind: we put "switch to tab" in there if that's what you mean
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# [19:12] <bhearsum> bwinton: pdiff actually does metadiffing properly?
# [19:13] <bwinton> bhearsum: Well, let me start by saying that it's unmaintained and obsolete, but in answer to your question, yeah, it would end up being basically the same as Mossop's suggestion.
# [19:13] <bhearsum> ah
# [19:13] <bhearsum> i use git, anyways
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# [19:14] <bhearsum> i wish bugzilla would let me raw diff two things so i didn't have to download patches to do it....
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# [19:14] <bwinton> Can't you get the diffs between two heads in git really easily?
# [19:15] <@smaug> oh, this is a toolkit bug after all. well gavin can still kick me
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# [19:15] <bhearsum> bwinton: sure
# [19:15] <bhearsum> but my use case here is reviewing a new version of a large patch
# [19:15] <akeybl> bz: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734019#c33 - could you backout the backout? We'll move forward with beta 6 once that's landed.
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# [19:16] <bhearsum> and when interdiff doesn't work, i have to download the last version i reviewed plus the one, and diff them locally
# [19:16] <bwinton> bhearsum: Also, I bet you could write a cool git script to automatically do the downloads and diffs and stuff…
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# [19:16] <bhearsum> what do i look like, a guy who writes tools for a living?!
# [19:16] <bwinton> (And if you do, you should totally release them.)
# [19:16] <bhearsum> oh wait...
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# [19:17] <glob> bhearsum, i hate interdiff
# [19:17] <bhearsum> me too
# [19:19] <@bz> akeybl: let me look
# [19:20] <@bz> akeybl: so I think we have a problem
# [19:20] <@bz> akeybl: this is a guaranteed hang+crash on a very popular site
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# [19:21] <akeybl> bz: it was present in FF11 though
# [19:21] <akeybl> and we have very little input
# [19:21] <akeybl> suggesting that this was particularly painful for our users
# [19:21] <@bz> akeybl: we don't really have a way to collect such input
# [19:21] <akeybl> http://input.mozilla.com/
# [19:21] <akeybl> major web compatibility issues really do percolate up there
# [19:22] <akeybl> include repeated hangs on somebody's favorite site
# [19:22] <@bz> akeybl: mmm
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# [19:22] <akeybl> case in point - the tinymce stuff w/ FF11 was on input
# [19:22] <@bz> akeybl: maybe everyone who matters is just using chrome. :(
# [19:22] <@bz> akeybl: in the relevant demographics
# [19:22] * @bz thinks this is a prime example of rapid release completely failing
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# [19:23] <@bz> we should have done the backout on beta on March 16
# [19:23] <@bz> once we knew this was an issue
# [19:23] <@bz> The problem was no one owned the bug. :(
# [19:23] <akeybl> we didn't know this bug carried such significant risk
# [19:23] <akeybl> and we were actively trying to get it to land
# [19:23] <@bz> um
# [19:24] <@bz> sure we did
# [19:24] <Pike> bkero: the hg 500 bug is more secret than the one that you duped, is that on purpose?
# [19:24] <@bz> we knew that the backout involved interface changes
# [19:24] <@bz> so it needed to happen before we actually got far enough in beta
# [19:24] <akeybl> by we I mean release management
# [19:24] <@bz> yeah
# [19:24] <akeybl> "Risk to taking this patch (and alternatives if risky): Reverts to the previous state"
# [19:25] * @bz is really not sure how we can do better here
# [19:25] <akeybl> that probably could have been hashed out more
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# [19:25] <Bas> bz: Isn't fixing the bug still an option, although risky?
# [19:25] <@bz> fixing what bug?
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# [19:25] <@bz> You mean figuring out what's actually triggering the hang?
# [19:26] <@smaug> Bas: if someone knew what is happening there, fixing the bug would be perhaps possible
# [19:26] <@smaug> figuring out that ...
# [19:26] <Bas> Yes, that's what I mean :)
# [19:26] <@bz> bas: I don't think it's doable before release
# [19:26] * @smaug should probably look at it
# [19:26] <Bas> bz: Ok :)
# [19:26] <@bz> bas: as far as I can tell, the site should have been hanging with both new and old code
# [19:26] <@smaug> tomorrow, so that we can fix the real issue for 13
# [19:26] <akeybl> bz: for now though, we need to get a beta 6 out the door so that we can gather feedback
# [19:27] <akeybl> so first thing is to get rid of the startup crasher
# [19:27] <@bz> bas: all we did was move methods from one interface to another...
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# [19:27] <@bz> bas: which should have been transparent to web content
# [19:27] <@bz> smaug: if you have time, that would rock
# [19:27] <@bz> smaug: ms2ger is not giving this enough priority.
# [19:27] <@bz> akyebl: yeah, <sigh>
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# [19:27] <@bz> akeybl: is this the last beta?
# [19:27] <akeybl> we'll probably get QA around the big picture bug
# [19:28] <@bz> akeybl: as in, even if we figure out the "right" fix we can't take it at this point?
# [19:28] <akeybl> to see how prevalent it is
# [19:28] <@bz> akeybl: what will that affect?
# [19:28] <akeybl> and if we have to roll another beta, we'd consider trying to fix it still
# [19:28] <akeybl> (if possible)
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# [19:28] <@bz> akeybl: (working on backing out the backout, btw)
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# [19:28] <akeybl> but this wouldn't drive a beta 7
# [19:28] <akeybl> (alone)
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# [19:28] <@bz> so do we have confirmation that backing out the backout solves bug 745453?
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# [19:29] <@bz> Or will we get such confirmation before beta6?
# [19:29] <Bas> bz: Maybe this is a completely redundant question, but if all we did was move methods, does any of the methods work based on certain offsets for members or member functions? That's the only difference I could see if we're moving methods.
# [19:29] <@bz> Bas: nope
# [19:29] <@bz> Bas: they're all perfectly sane methods
# [19:29] * Bas nods.
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# [19:29] <@bz> Bas: clearly something went wrong somewhere; the question is where
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# [19:29] <@bz> akeybl: ^
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# [19:33] <gregglind> zpao, how do I see that? I don't see any observer events except the onese that indicate tab completion.
# [19:33] <gregglind> what can I listen for to know that it was switch to tab mozilla-action ?
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# [19:34] <zpao> gregglind: oh you mean after enter is pressed?
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# [19:34] <gregglind> anywhere along the process, but yes.
# [19:34] <gregglind> so keypress 13 happens, then....
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# [19:35] <gregglind> keyCode 13 rather.
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# [19:35] <zpao> gregglind: https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/urlbarBindings.xml#280
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# [19:36] <gregglind> zpao, i found that as well, but I don't quite know what to do with it.
# [19:36] <gregglind> is it just "if evt['actionType'] == 'switchtab' ?
# [19:36] <zpao> gregglind: doesn't look like we fire anything
# [19:37] <zpao> gregglind: so we parse the url, which we have stored there as moz-action:switchtab:url (or something like that)
# [19:37] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f1f9579b3eea - Michael Ratcliffe - Bug 740603 - "Copy Rule" in the rule view includes expanded shorthand properties; r=dcamp
# [19:37] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/3a9629092a5f - Rob Campbell - merge fx-team to m-c
# [19:37] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/1e7f193ff1a7 - Tim Taubert - Bug 745712 - FillInHTMLTooltip should not use title attributes from XUL ascendants; r=dao
# [19:37] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0e71d6eec4d3 - Heather Arthur - Backing out f95f46afce27:01a50802f2d7 for TypeError on inspector open
# [19:37] <zpao> gregglind: it's not on the event at all
# [19:37] <gkw> lsblakk: ping
# [19:37] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0319eb7b084a - Panos Astithas - Bug 740805 - Treat JSM files as JS scripts in the debugger; r=rcampbell
# [19:38] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/01a50802f2d7 - Paul Rouget - Bug 735214 - [inspector] Give the focus to the toolbar and make the buttons tabbable. (Part B - tabbable); r=rcampbell
# [19:38] <lsblakk> gkw: pong
# [19:38] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f95f46afce27 - Paul Rouget - Bug 735214 - [inspector] Give the focus to the toolbar and make the buttons tabbable. (Part A - shortcut); r=dao
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# [19:38] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b8b2b94ae5e5 - Mark Capella - Bug 745119 - Clean up TEST_URIs in webconsole tests; r=rcampbell
# [19:38] <@smaug> when will the pdfjs installation be fixed
# [19:38] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0ba7e290a08f - Heather Arthur - Bug 733612 - Add a pseudo-class lock menu to the infobar node menu. r=paul
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# [19:38] <gkw> lsblakk: could you pls take a look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668452 ?
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# [19:38] <gregglind> zpao, so I am listening to the mousdown event, and have evt.originalTarget.value for example. is there somewhere where the newtarget is?
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# [19:38] <gkw> lsblakk: it will really help regression testing ( and getting a window ) for js shells
# [19:39] <gkw> and hopefully it's a simple fix
# [19:39] <gkw> lsblakk: see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668452#c3
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# [19:40] <gregglind> zpao, i am looking at: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/event/Comparison_of_Event_Targets
# [19:40] <gkw> as a comparison, we already have opt shells in: https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/2012-04-17-03-06-41-mozilla-central/
# [19:40] <gkw> so the -debug folders should have similar files as well
# [19:41] <zpao> gregglind: so what does evt.originalTarget.value give you?
# [19:41] <@bz> is there a tbpl for comm-beta?
# [19:42] <AryehGregor> ehsan, could you reply to <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480647#c9> so I know how to fix the patch?
# [19:42] <mbrubeck> bz: Not yet - I think you're stuck with http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=Thunderbird-Beta
# [19:42] <gregglind> zpao: the old url
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# [19:42] <@bz> mbrubec: ugh
# [19:43] * @bz just pushes blind
# [19:43] <mbrubeck> bz: The Thunderbird trees will be added to TBPL soon - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745952
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# [19:43] <AryehGregor> Wow, people are actually awake now. Bleh.
# [19:43] <zpao> gregglind: if you process a normal navigate does it give you the new url in that case?
# [19:43] <gregglind> no.
# [19:43] <gregglind> it's too early.
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# [19:44] <gregglind> zpao, I think it needs to listen for the change to the url bar
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# [19:45] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: sure
# [19:45] <AryehGregor> ehsan, thanks.
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# [19:46] <zpao> gregglind: yea, that shuold work too. are the click events in the urlbar or in the autocomplete results? (i've only poked at this code a little bit, urlbarBindings is complicated)
# [19:46] <akeybl> mozilla-central has just been marked approval only
# [19:46] <akeybl> mozilla-inbound is upcoming
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# [19:46] <gregglind> it is super complicated :)
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# [19:46] <gregglind> I don't think it's worth it for my app :)
# [19:46] <dholbert> akeybl, will that break the next inbound --> central merge?
# [19:47] <@ehsan> AryehGregor: done
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# [19:47] <@bz> ugh
# [19:47] <AryehGregor> ehsan, thanks.
# [19:47] <dholbert> akeybl, (and vice versa?)
# [19:47] * @bz still thinks we should be leaving inbound alone
# [19:47] <@bz> and just closing central
# [19:47] <@bz> but whatever
# [19:47] <akeybl> dholbert: ehsan offered to handle the merges
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# [19:47] * @bz just gives up on getting any work done in the next week or so
# [19:47] <akeybl> since both are approval only, I think the last commit message on the merge will have approval
# [19:47] <akeybl> so it shouldn't break
# [19:48] <mbrubeck> ugh, why can't we just use a branch for fennec1.0, instead of locking down trunk?
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# [19:48] <akeybl> mbrubeck: see dev-planning thread
# [19:48] <dholbert> akeybl, ok, cool -- I'd forgotten if the hook was per-commit vs. per-push
# [19:48] <@ehsan> akeybl: that's actually not true!
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# [19:48] <@ehsan> seems like this has confused everyone
# [19:48] <@ehsan> here's what happens:
# [19:48] <@ehsan> inbound == central
# [19:48] <@ehsan> both approval required
# [19:48] <@ehsan> if you land on central you need to watch the tree
# [19:48] <@ehsan> if you land on inbound you don't
# [19:48] <@ehsan> as usual
# [19:49] <@ehsan> for non-approved patches, land on birch
# [19:49] <mbrubeck> this is what I get for being PTO yesterday. :P
# [19:49] <@ehsan> and forget about the patch
# [19:49] <@ehsan> akeybl: someone really needs to communicate this clearly
# [19:49] <@bz> ehsan: what will happen in practice is that people won't land on birch
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# [19:49] <@bz> ehsan: and will just wait
# [19:49] <dholbert> [what about the stuff that currently exists on m-c and inbound that doesn't have a= and hasn't yet been merged to the other?]
# [19:49] <@bz> ehsan: and then I won't be able to land my patches that depend on their patches
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# [19:50] <dholbert> ehsan, (i.e. what I asked akeybl above, which it sounded like you were contradicting him on)
# [19:50] <@ehsan> bz: you need to get them to land on birch, or push their patches yourself
# [19:50] <@bz> ehsan: it's just not worth the effort
# [19:50] <@bz> ehsan: easier to crash-land it all on inbound in a week...
# [19:50] <@ehsan> bz: that's fine by me
# [19:50] <gkw> lsblakk: still around?
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# [19:51] <lsblakk> gkw: yes, i have a tiny patch, looking for review
# [19:51] <@bz> ehsan: I still don't understand why we think we'll have enough approval-granted patches that it's worth making it not require tree-watching to land them
# [19:51] <@ehsan> dholbert: those stuff will get merged to central
# [19:51] <@bz> ehsan: but whatever
# [19:51] <lsblakk> gkw: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1575060
# [19:51] <gkw> lsblakk: \o/
# [19:51] <cpeterson> we could just give non-fennec developers some free vacation days until next week's uplift. :)
# [19:51] <lsblakk> should get us the jsshell
# [19:51] <@ehsan> bz: fwiw, I am personally not convinced that we need the approval required status
# [19:51] * @bz is really past caring about this stuff; it's just one more meta-discussion getting in the way of work
# [19:51] <dholbert> ehsan, (and the if the merge itself has "a=whatever" then it'll pass the hook? that's what akeybl said, but I thought your "not true" was in response to that)
# [19:51] <@bz> ehsan: I'm not either, but that's a separate story
# [19:51] <@ehsan> bz: and I don't have any guesses on the number of a+/a- patches
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# [19:52] <@ehsan> dholbert: oh, no, that's right
# [19:52] <dholbert> ehsan, ah, good
# [19:52] <@ehsan> bz: agreed
# [19:52] * @ehsan goes back to working on real stuff
# [19:52] <@smaug> gavin: ping
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# [19:54] <cpeterson> bugzilla question: what is the appropriate Product/Component for evangelism bugs related to Core product?
# [19:54] <@smaug> or margaret: do you happen to know where we have tests for popupnotifications ?
# [19:55] <dholbert> cpeterson, all tech evang bugs go in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Tech%20Evangelism
# [19:55] <dholbert> cpeterson, and then component is just the language of the site, IIUC
# [19:55] <dholbert> cpeterson, (in case we e.g. need someone who speaks icelandic to communicate with the site developers)
# [19:55] <cpeterson> thanks, dholbert
# [19:55] <dholbert> np
# [19:56] <@smaug> margaret: nm, found
# [19:59] <AryehGregor> Is m-i closed? I'm getting an "approval required" error when pushing.
# [19:59] <mounir> -moz-user-focus is expected to work on content stylesheet?
# [19:59] <dholbert> AryehGregor, yeah, it's approval required now. see akeybl's notes above
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# [19:59] <gavin> smaug: pong
# [19:59] <dholbert> AryehGregor, and dev.planning thread on "Proposal: mark mozilla-central APPROVAL_REQUIRED for the next week"
# [20:00] <dholbert> AryehGregor, (where mozilla-central implicitly includes m-i as well)
# [20:00] <@smaug> gavin: I was just going to ask where we have some tests for popupnotifications
# [20:00] <@smaug> gavin: but I found some
# [20:00] <@smaug> gavin: looks like if I remove the elements at the end of _onPopupHidden, the leak is gone
# [20:00] <gavin> smaug: makes sense
# [20:01] <gavin> IIRC leaving them there was just a poor attempt at optimization, I didn't realize they also held references to the JS objects
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# [20:02] <@smaug> gavin: I can't figure out any way to actually test this, since we don't have anything like about:cc running during tests
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# [20:05] <AryehGregor> Okay, I'm confused -- what am I supposed to do with my patches here? Sit on them for a week? That seems pretty annoying.
# [20:05] <AryehGregor> What are the standards for requesting approval?
# [20:05] <@smaug> AryehGregor: ?
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# [20:05] <mak> AryehGregor: see the tree rules at the top of tbpl for admitted landings
# [20:05] <AryehGregor> smaug, patches submitting to m-c and m-i apparently need approval right now.
# [20:05] <@smaug> requesting approval for what?
# [20:06] <mak> please, no panic :)
# [20:06] <@smaug> what?
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# [20:06] <mbrubeck> AryehGregor: Patches with no risk of breaking fennec can definitely be approved
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# [20:06] <@smaug> oh, there is something like that
# [20:06] <AryehGregor> Does Fennec even support editor/?
# [20:07] <mbrubeck> AryehGregor: For other patches, I think there has to be some reason that it is important to land now instead of sometime next week.
# [20:07] <@smaug> mbrubeck: if there is such new rule, why it isn't mentioned in the topic of this channel
# [20:07] <@smaug> or in tbpl
# [20:07] <AryehGregor> What are patches with no risk of breaking Fennec?
# [20:07] <mbrubeck> AryehGregor: That's used for text inputs (and contenteditable?), right? If so, then yes.
# [20:07] <mbrubeck> AryehGregor: Patches in /browser, for example.
# [20:07] <AryehGregor> I see.
# [20:08] <mbrubeck> Or Windows/Mac/B2G platform patches
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# [20:09] <philor> akeybl / johnath : unanswerable, but, how many patches are you going to a-? do we need 3-hour periodic PGO builds on Birch like inbound, or 6-hour like central?
# [20:10] <AryehGregor> So I'm supposed to leave all my patches in mq for a week? Or push them to Birch (what's Birch)?
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# [20:10] <mak> AryehGregor: patience is a virtue, info will come.
# [20:10] <@smaug> AryehGregor: upload them to bugs ;)
# [20:11] <AryehGregor> smaug, even better way to bitrot them.
# [20:11] <AryehGregor> Well, okay.
# [20:11] <AryehGregor> I'm off for the night.
# [20:11] <mbrubeck> AryehGregor: http://hg.mozilla.org/projects/birch/ will be used temporarily; it'll remain open during the approval-required period, and all patches pushed there will land when m-c opens.
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# [20:12] <@smaug> mbrubeck: so, since I've missed all the information about requirement for approval, is there some more information about it?
# [20:12] <@smaug> gah, horrible English
# [20:12] <mbrubeck> smaug: There's no good summary, but https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.planning/tWR6imIDKnM/discussion
# [20:14] <@smaug> ah, I apparently just totally missed that thread in dev.planning
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# [20:16] * @smaug doesn't understand why m-c needs to be used for beta work...but whatever
# [20:18] <taras> Enn: ping
# [20:18] <Enn> hi
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# [20:19] <taras> Enn: have you had time to look at 743877?
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# [20:20] <Enn> no
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# [20:20] <akeybl> can an op change the topic ("Trees are OPEN") and include a link to the dev-planning thread?
# [20:20] <taras> Enn: do you have an eta for looking at that?
# [20:21] <Enn> I don't
# [20:21] <taras> Enn: week, 2, month?
# [20:21] <taras> Enn: or a suggestion of who else can look at this?
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# [20:22] * gavin changes topic to 'm-c is APPROVAL-REQUIRED, see http://goo.gl/rUYkY for details || Next uplift: 24th April || New/want to help? See irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction || http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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# [20:25] <philor> mbrubeck: woo, just submitted my first comment with ctrl+enter :)
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# [20:26] <romaxa> bsmedberg: hey, could you check 713681, latest patch with ajusted process types checks?
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# [20:26] <@bsmedberg> I'll get to it
# [20:26] <@bsmedberg> it requires some thinking, and I've been super-busy
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# [20:27] <lduros> does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox freezes the UI more than usual for you in Firefox
# [20:27] <lduros> I tried both on windows and gnu/linux
# [20:27] <lduros> and it seems like it's significantly slower than many pages in wikipedia
# [20:27] <lduros> or anywhere else
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# [20:28] <romaxa> bsmedberg: ok, I'm building not OMTC embedding proto now, but that part should be the same it is only IPC embedding related
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# [20:30] <qheaden> Unfocused: ping
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# [20:35] <gkw> lsblakk: it'll be nice to have the patch attached to that bug, too. just as a sign of progress and upcoming resolution :)
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# [20:35] <lsblakk> gkw: there will be a patch attached to that bug when it's ready
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# [20:39] <mounir> NeilAway: are you more available?
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# [20:42] <mounir> smaug: maybe you are?
# [20:42] <NeilAway> mounir: no, less
# [20:42] <mounir> NeilAway: damn :)
# [20:42] <mounir> NeilAway: when you are, I would like to speak about IsFocusable() and aWithMouse
# [20:43] <@smaug> mounir: you really want Enn ;)
# [20:43] <NeilAway> mounir: you sure you don't want Enn?
# [20:43] <mounir> damn
# [20:43] <gkw> lsblakk: sounds fantastic. thanks in advance!
# [20:43] <gkw> lsblakk++ for the quick patch
# [20:43] <mounir> NeilAway: I know you guys are the same person :)
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# [20:43] <mounir> Enn: so, it looks like I was trying to bother the wrong one :)
# [20:44] <mounir> Enn: do you have a few minutes
# [20:44] <NeilAway> hmm, I feel the need for a reason to decrement ms2ger
# [20:44] <@smaug> so, how do I ask approval for m-c ?
# [20:44] <Enn> mounir: not right now
# [20:45] <mounir> Enn: let me know when you can
# [20:45] <Enn> last week would be better
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# [20:45] <mak> smaug: bug 746210
# [20:46] <Enn> mounir: thursday would be better
# [20:46] <mounir> Enn: will see then
# [20:48] <@smaug> mak: thanks
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# [20:52] <NeilAway> whoa, that was quick, someone already submitted that to qbo
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# [20:54] <mounir> smaug: do you happen to know why we do focus the HTMLElement when tabbing and the BodyElement when clicking?
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# [20:55] <@smaug> what HTMLElement?
# [20:56] <@smaug> mounir: that HTMLElement is next in the tab focus ?
# [20:56] <mounir> smaug: yes
# [20:56] <mounir> when entering the page
# [20:56] <@smaug> and you click somewhere else
# [20:56] <mounir> if i click it's body
# [20:56] <@smaug> unless you click that focusable element
# [20:57] <mounir> anyway, I wonder how they happen to be focused given that IsFocusable() should return false for them (i should triple-check that)
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# [20:58] <mounir> on an unrelated note, I think the only fan I have on my laptop just gave up with life :(
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# [20:58] <@smaug> mounir: a new one won't be expensive, I think
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# [20:59] <mounir> smaug: a fan, yes but opening the laptop to put it will be expensive (or dangerous)
# [20:59] <@smaug> I just changed a fan to my friend's laptop, and it was like 20€, and changing it took like 5mins
# [21:00] <@smaug> mounir: I happened to find service manual for that laptop model
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# [21:03] <mounir> smaug: I will have to think about it, it might be hard to work if my laptop stays at 75 degrees while mostly idle :-/
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# [21:05] <@smaug> mounir: get one of these http://www.targus.com/uk/accessories_cooling.asp :)
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# [21:12] <mounir> smaug: I will have to think about it, it might be hard to work if my laptop stays at 75 degrees while mostly idle :-/
# [21:12] <mounir> oups
# [21:12] <rniwa> fantasai: ping
# [21:12] <mounir> wrong window
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# [21:14] <Waldo> whattrainisitnow.com++
# [21:15] <dholbert> whaaaaat
# [21:15] <dholbert> that's awesome
# [21:16] <dholbert> ted++
# [21:16] <dholbert> though he's not here
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# [21:18] <dholbert> heh
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# [21:21] <luke> i am surprised by the lack of rageface meme re: currently closed tree
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# [21:32] <cpeterson> luke, maybe mozillameme requires a+
# [21:33] <luke> cpeterson: oh snap
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# [21:33] <cpeterson> rageface? r-
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# [21:51] <hub> so all I need is to set "approval-mozilla-central" to ? to get it approved for landing on inbound?
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# [21:56] <dholbert> hub, that sounds correct
# [21:56] <dholbert> hub, (and then you wait for it to be approved)
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# [21:57] <hub> ok, just making sure. I also added a note about the impact of the patch :-)\
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# [22:00] <smontagu> how can I write a CSS selector that needs both an attribute and a pseudo class to match?
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# [22:01] <paul> smontagu: foo[att1]:pseudoclass ?
# [22:01] <smontagu> paul: doesn't seem to work
# [22:02] <paul> smontagu: it should
# [22:02] <paul> smontagu: what's your selector?
# [22:03] <smontagu> [dir="auto"]:-moz-dir(ltr)
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# [22:04] <paul> smontagu: isn't it -moz-locale-dir(ltr) ?
# [22:05] <Mossop> bsmedberg: Do you think there is any benefit to combining all the manifests into a single file (rather than localized.manifest, nonlocalized.manifest, components.manifest and interfaces.manifest that we have now)?
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# [22:05] <smontagu> paul: I am in the middle of implementing -moz-dir (bug 562169)
# [22:05] <paul> smontagu: ok
# [22:05] <paul> smontagu: so
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# [22:05] <paul> smontagu: did you add something before the selector?
# [22:05] <paul> smontagu: *[dir="auto"]:-moz-dir(ltr) ?
# [22:05] <smontagu> no
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# [22:06] <paul> smontagu: I think you need to. Add the star.
# [22:06] <smontagu> there are current [dir="rtl"] and [dir="ltr"] selectors without stars in html.css
# [22:06] <smontagu> but i'll just try adding the star
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# [22:07] <smaug> smontagu: and you have the attribute value exactly "auto" ;)
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# [22:08] <@bsmedberg> Mossop: in omnijar I think there's no benefit
# [22:08] <@bsmedberg> Mossop: out of omnijar there could be a small benefit but I don't think it's worth the l10n repackaging pain
# [22:08] <smontagu> no, that makes no different
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# [22:08] <smontagu> it seems to match elements with no dir attribute at all
# [22:08] <Mossop> bsmedberg: Ok, I won't bother to try it then :)
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# [22:10] <smontagu> at least accordning to "Inspect Element"
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# [22:14] <jtcranmer> o_O
# [22:15] <jtcranmer> js shell can neither write a file nor use atob
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# [22:16] <smaug> atob is a method of window object
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# [22:17] <jtcranmer> yeah, but it's such a useful method
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# [22:19] <fantasai> rniwa: pong
# [22:19] <rniwa> fantasai: hi, did you see my email?
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# [22:22] <NeilAway> Waldo: I just load http://people.mozilla.com/~tmielczarek/branch_versions.json directly ;-)
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# [22:24] <fantasai> rniwa: got it
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# [22:24] <rniwa> fantasai: great.
# [22:24] <rniwa> fantasai: so do you think you can wait 'til thu morning for the schedule?
# [22:24] <fantasai> rniwa: No, you can't tell me Thurs morning that you need me there Thursday afternoon
# [22:24] <rniwa> fantasai: ok.
# [22:24] <rniwa> fantasai: i'll get back to you :)
# [22:25] <fantasai> rniwa: If I show up, I'm there the whole day.
# [22:25] <rniwa> fantasai: sorry about all the scheduling mess.
# [22:25] <rniwa> fantasai: ah, ok.
# [22:25] <fantasai> rniwa: I don't have a car.
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# [22:25] <rniwa> fantasai: ah, I see.
# [22:25] <rniwa> fantasai: same here
# [22:25] <fantasai> rniwa: so pick a day, and I can be there that day
# [22:25] <fantasai> rniwa: and then it doesn't matter what the time is
# [22:25] <fantasai> rniwa: does that work for you?
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# [22:26] <rniwa> fantasai: i think so.
# [22:26] <rniwa> fantasai: let me agree on the date though
# [22:26] <fantasai> rniwa: ok
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# [22:28] <rniwa> fantasai: do you have a preference?
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# [22:32] <fantasai> rniwa: ... can't come up with a reason for one
# [22:32] <stuart> why does my browser pause for a very long time when i click on the facebook apptab?
# [22:32] <stuart> images?
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# [22:33] <rniwa> fantasai: okay. i think we were inclined towards 19th
# [22:34] <rniwa> fantasai: i've emailed relevant folks so i'll try to get back to you by EOD.
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# [22:34] <rniwa> fantasai: sorry about all the scheduling mess :(
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# [22:36] <aja> fantasai: may i PM you briefly? ( re: flex property name bikeshedding)
# [22:37] <NeilAway> Mossop: got time for a toolkit question?
# [22:37] <Mossop> NeilAway: Not right now, in a meeting sorry
# [22:37] <fantasai> aja: sure
# [22:37] <NeilAway> Mossop: np
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# [22:37] * fantasai never thought that required permission, but ok :)
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# [22:58] <Callek> anyone know how to work hg rebase so that a rev chain of |a -> b -> c| can rebase c onto a, so that I can change b in my queue and then rebase c back onto b without weird merge conflicts?
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# [22:59] * Callek is getting "abort source is descendant of destination"
# [23:00] <Mossop> Why not just qimport c, qpop, make your changes then qpush c again?
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# [23:01] <Callek> Mossop: because I would have conflicts with c
# [23:01] <Callek> that are 10x harder to resolve
# [23:01] <Callek> this are simple changes, but in very similar parts of the code
# [23:01] <Callek> c is more complex
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# [23:02] <Callek> so a conflict that breaks c is kinda a pain (3-way-merge from rebase makes it sane)
# [23:02] <Mossop> Callek: Why do you think rebasing c onto a and then back onto b is going to be any better?
# [23:02] <Callek> because 3-way merge programs help
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# [23:03] <Callek> but I suppose I'll just create a d ontop of b, then rebase c to d, and then use MQ to collapse b and d
# [23:03] <gavin> change b, commit on top of it, rebase c onto b'
# [23:03] <Callek> gavin: yea, basically that -- thanks
# [23:03] <Mossop> Huh, don't think I've ever seen a case where three way merges help. Guess I'm lucky
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# [23:05] <qheaden> gavin: ping
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# [23:07] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/719a2fb28324 - Olli Pettay - Bug 743178, CORS may keep XHR alive too long, r=bz, a=tracking-firefox14+
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# [23:07] <glandium> does sync do localstorage/indexeddb, too?
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# [23:09] <gavin> no
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# [23:15] <bhearsum> when i click a youtube video to make it play in Nightly, does that enable just that flash object on the page, or all of them?
# [23:15] <@khuey> jaws: ^
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# [23:21] <jaws> bhearsum: do you have plugins.click_to_play enabled?
# [23:21] <edmorley> khuey: popped by your desk earlier to see if you were there to say hi, presume you are out of the office, judging by the whiteboard?
# [23:21] <bhearsum> jaws: yeah
# [23:21] <jaws> bhearsum: currently it enables all plugins on the page. we are planning on switching it to enabling just that visible plugin and all invisible plugins
# [23:21] <bhearsum> ah, okay
# [23:21] <@khuey> edmorley: yeah :-(
# [23:21] <bhearsum> hrm.
# [23:22] <nthomas> edmorley: he's is ausssstraaaaaalia
# [23:22] <nthomas> *in
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# [23:22] <@khuey> edmorley: do you leave SF before I get back?
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# [23:22] <jaws> bhearsum: we have to enable invisible plugins due to the situation of helper objects on the net
# [23:22] <bhearsum> bah :(
# [23:22] <edmorley> I'm here until Friday (a-team work week for my first week :-))
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# [23:22] <Waldo> bmoss: ping whenever you get out of the meeting it sounded like you were going into, no rush whatsoever :-)
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# [23:22] <@khuey> edmorley: darn
# [23:22] <bhearsum> we couldn't have click-to-play enable just the one you clicked, and the doorhanger fol others?
# [23:22] <Waldo> edmorley: you're in SF this week?
# [23:22] <@khuey> I'm not bad till monday
# [23:23] <@khuey> edmorley: glad we finally got you onboard though
# [23:23] <bmoss> Waldo: will do
# [23:23] * Waldo should consider heading up to SF this week to say hi, although who knows when that might be possible
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# [23:23] <edmorley> Waldo: yeah, well at the Hyatt at the moment since there wasn't enough room for us with what else was going on
# [23:24] <edmorley> khuey: :-)
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# [23:24] <jaws> bhearsum: that would break a lot of websites that depend on the helper plugins being enabled within a very short amount of time from the visible plugin
# [23:24] <bhearsum> ah, okay
# [23:24] <qheaden> Are jsm files automatically recognized and handled by the build system? Or do they need to be specified in a build file?
# [23:24] <bhearsum> that sucks.
# [23:25] <bhearsum> one last question: is there going to be a different graphic for unenabled plugins? the lego brick looks a lot like the "plugin crashed" one
# [23:25] <jaws> bhearsum: although, we also will only start to enable plugins if they are of the same plugin type (flash, silverlight, java) instead of all like we do now
# [23:25] <@khuey> qheaden: you need to say "EXTRA_JS_MODULES = Foo.jsm" in your makefile
# [23:25] <bhearsum> cool
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# [23:25] <jaws> bhearsum: we will probably use a different graphic. shorlander has it on his backlog to make new notification icons iirc.
# [23:25] <bhearsum> cool
# [23:26] <bhearsum> thanks for your time!
# [23:26] <qheaden> khuey: Thanks.
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# [23:27] <shorlander> jaws, bhearsum: the little brick?
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# [23:29] <jaws> shorlander: that's what i think bhearsum is talking about
# [23:29] <shorlander> Ah, yeah. We only had the generic brick. Probably need a specific one.
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# [23:30] <jaws> although i'm not sure if bhearsum is talking about the overlay graphic or the notification icon in the location bar
# [23:30] <bhearsum> i'm talking about the overlay
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# [23:31] <jaws> oh ok, yeah that would be easier to have a different graphic for given that it is a much larger surface :)
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# [23:55] <TabAtkins> bz: For attr(foo url), we'd like to define a *specific* invalid URL to return when the attr is missing. Any suggestions?
# [23:55] <TabAtkins> bz: kennyluck recommends about:blank, but we have no idea.
# [23:57] <TabAtkins> bz: Look in http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/#attr in the <dl> for the current spec text, which is apparently inadequate.
# [23:57] <kennyluck> I recommends any non-implementation-specified URL in this case.
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# Session Close: Wed Apr 18 00:00:01 2012

The end :)