/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-05-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat May 12 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #developers
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  14. # [00:07] <rillian> damons: derf said you were seeing bug 752661 even after setting media.opus.enabled to true?
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  16. # [00:08] <damons> rillian: yeah, but I didn't restart the browser.
  17. # [00:08] <damons> Dunno if that's required.
  18. # [00:08] <rillian> you shouldn't need to restart
  19. # [00:08] <damons> Lemme check again.
  20. # [00:08] <rillian> but you have to reload the tab after changing the pref
  21. # [00:08] <damons> Got a link?
  22. # [00:08] <damons> Yeah, I reloaded before.
  23. # [00:08] <rillian> https://people.xiph.org/~giles/2012/opus/
  24. # [00:09] <rillian> which file is it hitting?
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  27. # [00:11] <rillian> damons, also, please see if it also occurs with https://people.xiph.org/~giles/2012/opus/swap.html
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  32. # [00:13] <damons> the swap.html page only has one audio element, right?
  33. # [00:13] <damons> Damn. This is the first time I actually played the longer audio. Seek is FAST!!
  34. # [00:13] <damons> Love it.
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  44. # [00:18] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/22a58090fa70 - Olli Pettay - Bug 749589 - Less-leaky classinfo for XTF, r=jst
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  46. # [00:19] <gregglind> so, nothing like AboutClose on notificationboxes or notification messages, except on mobile?
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  49. # [00:21] <mfinkle> gregglind, right
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  51. # [00:21] <mfinkle> gregglind, although, Mossop would take a patch
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  54. # [00:23] <rillian> damons, yes. I was trying to determine if your issue was with longer files, or with the second <audio> element in dom order
  55. # [00:23] <rillian> glad you like the seeking!
  56. # [00:24] <rillian> Do you still see the multiple-requests behaviour?
  57. # [00:24] <rillian> it should do a couple to identify the file and determine the length, but that's all
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  60. # [00:26] <gregglind> mfinkle no general "I am a xul thing that closed"?
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  62. # [00:27] <gregglind> mfinkle, I am planning to use those notificaiton boxes heavily again for ui (in tp2). Panels are even mroe fragile / difficult.
  63. # [00:27] <damons> rillian: seems to be working fine. Don't see the issue anymore.
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  86. # [00:44] * NeilAway idly wonders why Ms2ger is patching mailnews
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  90. # [00:45] <philor> it's a trap!
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  115. # [01:09] <kbrosnan> NeilAway: sounds like he is gunning for module owner
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  139. # [01:23] <jviereck> dholbert: hi. do you know of your head how fonts getting handled/copied when creating the static document? Seems like the necessary fonts for the mozPrintCallback don't make it to the printer surface
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  142. # [01:24] <dholbert> jviereck, not sure. I know we had issues with race conditions between downloadable fonts & printed documents at some point; not sure if thats fixed
  143. # [01:24] <dholbert> jviereck, is this w/ downloadable fonts, or just normal fonts?
  144. # [01:25] <dholbert> (normal = already-installed)
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  152. # [01:28] <jviereck> dholbert: I haven't made too much investigation yet :/ The fonts are added to the page using font-face on css and then a data-url. The fonts are loaded before the printing happen, there is no visible element in the document, that uses the font
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  155. # [01:29] <jviereck> dholbert: my feeling is then, that it's realized there is no dependency for that font, therefore it's not copied to the static document
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  159. # [01:29] <jviereck> dholbert: any idea where I should start looking for the code that does the font handling for the static-document thing?
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  166. # [01:30] <jviereck> dholbert: or, who might know about this?
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  169. # [01:31] <dholbert> jviereck, (was afk, back now)
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  173. # [01:31] <dholbert> jviereck, nattokirai or jkew would know, or maybe smaug
  174. # [01:31] <dholbert> jkew = jfkthame
  175. # [01:32] <dholbert> jviereck, @font-face + data URL counts as a downloadable font, IIUC
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  178. # [01:32] <dholbert> jviereck, actually this sounds like https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=468568 exactly
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  181. # [01:33] <dholbert> jviereck, (just re-found that bug -- I'd thought it was fixed, but I guess not)
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  186. # [01:33] <dholbert> jviereck, john daggett (that bug's reporter/assignee) is nattokirai on IRC. he's in Japan timezone, though I believe he's in Hamburg this week for csswg meeting. (probably returning to japan over the weekend)
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  207. # [01:38] <jviereck> dholbert: okay, thanks. I look into it later today then
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  210. # [01:38] <dholbert> jviereck, np
  211. # [01:38] <jviereck> dholbert: thanks and have a nice weekend!
  212. # [01:38] <dholbert> jviereck, thanks, you too!
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  216. # [01:39] <kbrosnan> anyone sop mind doing that gobally
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  219. # [01:39] <@khuey> bah
  220. # [01:40] <@khuey> gavin: can you get rid of reuben
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  223. # [01:40] <jhammel> what's the problem? he gets rid of himself? :P
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  235. # [01:42] <mfinkle> gregglind, DOM mutation events
  236. # [01:42] <mfinkle> they were always a performance issue though
  237. # [01:42] <gavin> khuey: he's actually a legit user, so not sure I should gline him...
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  240. # [01:42] <mfinkle> i read that they might be better now
  241. # [01:42] <gavin> client's gone funky or something
  242. # [01:42] <@khuey> gavin: his client was doing this yesterday too
  243. # [01:42] <gavin> mfinkle: there's an alternative that's better
  244. # [01:42] <gavin> mutation events themsleves still suck
  245. # [01:42] <mfinkle> gregglind, ^
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  322. # [02:28] <jhford> are there weekend inbound -> central merges?
  323. # [02:29] <mbrubeck> jhford: There have been most weekends recently, though we don't guarantee anything.
  324. # [02:29] <jhford-work> yup
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  335. # [02:44] <padenot> !b &é
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  509. # [07:31] <@bz> man
  510. # [07:31] <@bz> people are just so confused
  511. # [07:31] <@bz> e.g. they seem to think they can expect significant perf differences (in either direction!) between our betas and our releases
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  519. # [07:45] <Matti> our developers fix all the important bugs only in the beta cycle. I expect the same :-)
  520. # [07:46] <Havvy> Matti: Mozilla fixes all it's important bugs in the nightly channel.
  521. # [07:47] <Matti> Havvy: that was sarcasm
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  523. # [07:54] <nigelb> http://i.imgur.com/9D5H2.gif
  524. # [07:54] <nigelb> Drat. Havy left.
  525. # [07:58] <Matti> lol, great image
  526. # [07:58] <@bz> our developers fix bugs?
  527. # [07:59] * @bz blocks a fix from going in with r-, goes to bed
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  530. # [08:00] <Matti> good night
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  595. # [10:30] <Ms2ger> heycam|away, ping?
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  600. # [10:36] <glob|away> is there an easy way to see which tab is causing firefox to consume large cpu (without closing the tabs one-by-one) ? i don't see any obvious candidates
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  618. # [10:53] <Unfocused> glob|away: no :\
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  620. # [10:53] <glob|away> Unfocused, nuts. my macbook is kindly telling me via the fan that something's amiss
  621. # [10:54] <glob|away> ah well
  622. # [10:55] <Unfocused> oh, i thought macbooks just always did that ;)
  623. # [10:55] <glob|away> Unfocused, heh, only when firefox goes mad, and minecraft
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  626. # [11:00] <Ms2ger> "Couldn't load XPCOM."
  627. # [11:00] <Ms2ger> Eh.
  628. # [11:01] <Ms2ger> (https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=11689302&tree=Firefox)
  629. # [11:01] * Quits: ferongr (ferongr@9461F8D8.3BB4FAB7.F5160715.IP) (Quit: ferongr)
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  633. # [11:05] <Ms2ger> mccr8++
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  636. # [11:09] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: so, why are you patching mailnews?
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  639. # [11:10] <Ms2ger> The usual reason, to avoid people shouting at me because I turned your tree red :)
  640. # [11:11] <Ms2ger> (Not in bugzilla yet, there's a dozen bugs I need to file first)
  641. # [11:11] <Ms2ger> (editor really is horrible)
  642. # [11:14] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: what are you changing this time?
  643. # [11:14] * Quits: twi (Adium@moz-1AE3B3E2.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) (Quit: Leaving.)
  644. # [11:14] <Ms2ger> nsIHTMLEditor.CcreateElementWithDefaults
  645. # [11:14] <Ms2ger> With one c
  646. # [11:17] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: what's that got to do with atoms?
  647. # [11:18] <Ms2ger> That's I'm passing one to it
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  655. # [11:25] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: just one?
  656. # [11:26] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: do we have automatic string->atom conversion for JS yet, or is the code going to get really ugly?
  657. # [11:27] <Ms2ger> We do, afaict
  658. # [11:27] <Ms2ger> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/js/xpconnect/src/XPCConvert.cpp#808
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  660. # [11:28] * ewong|sleep is now known as ewong
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  662. # [11:30] <NeilAway> well that's a relief
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  666. # [11:36] <Ms2ger> Yeah, it wouldn't really be worth it otherwise
  667. # [11:37] <NeilAway> huj
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  669. # [11:37] <NeilAway> huh, my browser just decided to drop 1.8GB of commit
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  677. # [11:48] <mkohler> hi guy, is it possible to search for all bugs that have a patch I did attached?
  678. # [11:50] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  679. # [11:52] <Ms2ger> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?list_id=3073162;field0-0-0=attachments.submitter;query_format=advanced;type0-0-0=equals;value0-0-0=<email address>
  680. # [11:53] <Ms2ger> That gives you all attachments you uploaded
  681. # [11:53] <Ms2ger> Dunno if you can easily limit it to patches
  682. # [11:54] <Fallen> there is a field attachment is patch, but I don't know if that also gives you bugs where you uploaded a file, and another attachment is a patch
  683. # [11:54] <Ms2ger> Right
  684. # [11:55] <Ms2ger> mattwoodrow, are you planning to land bug 707035?
  685. # [11:55] <mkohler> I'll try that, thanks a lot!
  686. # [11:56] <Ms2ger> Np
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  699. # [12:17] <Fallen> what is the planned replacement for e4x?
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  703. # [12:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/2b6a0f8e9201 - ffxbld - Automated blocklist update from host linux-ix-slave26
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  732. # Session Close: Sat May 12 13:19:49 2012
  733. #
  734. # Session Start: Sat May 12 13:19:49 2012
  735. # Session Ident: #developers
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  739. # [13:28] * Topic is 'PGO failure resolved for now, but be gentle, we're still close to the PGO limit || Next uplift for Fx15: 2012-06-05 || New/want to help? See irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction || http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ || mozilla::TimeStamp errors: update your tree and clobber'
  740. # [13:28] * Set by smaug on Fri May 11 01:45:30
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  745. # [13:34] <ttaubert> so is anyone going to back out bug 736501?
  746. # [13:35] <ttaubert> uh
  747. # [13:35] <ttaubert> has been backed out already, nice
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  785. # [14:06] * jwatt wonders who to contact about mozillians.org bustage
  786. # [14:09] <Ms2ger> David Boswell <david@mozillafoundation.org>, maybe
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  791. #
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  798. # [14:22] * Set by smaug on Fri May 11 01:45:30
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  801. # [14:26] <jwatt> nigelb, Unfocused: bug 754562
  802. # [14:27] <jwatt> thanks for the help
  803. # [14:27] <Unfocused> :)
  804. # [14:28] * mattwoodrow|away is now known as mattwoodrow
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  806. # [14:28] * nigelb looks
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  808. # [14:29] <cers> as a general rule, when people review patches, do they just look at the patch, or do they try to apply it and see if it works?
  809. # [14:31] * Joins: Stan (Stan@moz-7F51583D.dip.t-dialin.net)
  810. # [14:31] <Unfocused> as a general rule, it depends on the reviewer
  811. # [14:31] * Joins: Dagger (Dagger@moz-C46A7175.cable.virginmedia.com)
  812. # [14:32] <Unfocused> and, for that matter, the patch
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  815. #
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  821. # [14:42] * Topic is 'PGO failure resolved for now, but be gentle, we're still close to the PGO limit || Next uplift for Fx15: 2012-06-05 || New/want to help? See irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction || http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ || mozilla::TimeStamp errors: update your tree and clobber'
  822. # [14:42] * Set by smaug on Fri May 11 01:45:30
  823. # [14:42] <Unfocused> hm, mozillians has a skills field now
  824. # [14:42] <Unfocused> that doesn't appear to be linkable or searchable
  825. # [14:42] * Unfocused adds beard growing as a skill
  826. # [14:42] <cers> Unfocused: ok - so I can't conslude that a review+'ed patch that makes my mc segfault at startup is something I did wrong applying/compiling it :-)
  827. # [14:42] <cers> *conclude
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  829. # [14:43] <Unfocused> cers: it's a possibility, but not the only one :)
  830. # [14:43] <Unfocused> clobber build is a good sanity check
  831. # [14:44] <Unfocused> albeit, a time consuming one :\
  832. # [14:44] <cers> especially because it basically makes my laptop (and only pc) fairly unsuable for like 5-8 hours
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  837. # Session Close: Sat May 12 14:51:19 2012
  838. #
  839. # Session Start: Sat May 12 14:51:19 2012
  840. # Session Ident: #developers
  841. # [14:51] * Disconnected
  842. # [14:57] * Attempting to rejoin channel #developers
  843. # [14:57] * Rejoined channel #developers
  844. # [14:57] * Topic is 'PGO failure resolved for now, but be gentle, we're still close to the PGO limit || Next uplift for Fx15: 2012-06-05 || New/want to help? See irc://irc.mozilla.org/#introduction || http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ || mozilla::TimeStamp errors: update your tree and clobber'
  845. # [14:57] * Set by smaug on Fri May 11 01:45:30
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  904. # [17:07] * mbrubeck tries to spot the actual error in https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=11704321&full=1&branch=mozilla-inbound#error0
  905. # [17:08] <mbrubeck> !seen jrmuizel
  906. # [17:08] <firebot> jrmuizel was last seen 17 hours, 26 minutes and 15 seconds ago, saying 'I don't know about anything big though' in #gfx.
  907. # [17:08] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
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  909. # [17:11] <mbrubeck> GeckoActivity.java:70: warning: [cast] redundant cast to org.mozilla.gecko.GeckoApplication seems to be the only error
  910. # [17:11] <mbrubeck> but why would a warning break the build?
  911. # [17:11] <gcp> -Werror?
  912. # [17:11] * Quits: jrmuizel (jrmuizel@moz-20EF8EAA.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Input/output error)
  913. # [17:11] <mbrubeck> and why would that change (which only touches C files in libpixman) cause that warning in our Java code?
  914. # [17:12] * Joins: jet (junglecode@E9758364.9EC0A5AF.CFE928A7.IP)
  915. # [17:13] <gcp> mbrubeck: which tree?
  916. # [17:13] <mbrubeck> inbound
  917. # [17:13] * Joins: Stan (Stan@moz-7F51583D.dip.t-dialin.net)
  918. # [17:15] <gcp> different config on the builder?
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  920. # [17:16] * Parts: sawrubh (Mibbit@4F882FCC.4850A4DD.1957C0DA.IP)
  921. # [17:20] <gcp> mbrubeck: you did some backout that failed
  922. # [17:20] <gcp> mbrubeck: philor left a start saying "clobbered"
  923. # [17:20] <gcp> mbrubeck: error starts there
  924. # [17:21] * ewong is now known as ewong|sleep
  925. # [17:21] <gcp> https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/1021fb3a0474
  926. # [17:21] <gcp> left a star
  927. # [17:22] <gcp> this is likely the souce of needing to clobber: https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/c115c58ef2b1
  928. # [17:23] * Quits: jet (junglecode@E9758364.9EC0A5AF.CFE928A7.IP) (Quit: jet)
  929. # [17:23] <decoder> if I want to have an NS_ASSERTION to be always fatal (in debug builds), what should I use instead? NS_ABORT_IF_FALSE ?
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  937. # [17:38] * philor|away is now known as philor
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  943. # [17:46] <mbrubeck> gcp: Ah, thanks
  944. # [17:46] * Joins: JeroenDeDauw (j@moz-CC4D7CE8.hotsplots.net)
  945. # [17:46] * mbrubeck clobbers all inbound android builders
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  947. # [17:46] * jhopkins|afk is now known as jhopkins
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  958. # [17:58] * philor is now known as philor|away
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  1003. # [18:17] * cdiehl_ is now known as cdiehl
  1004. # [18:17] <mbrubeck> That leak that evilpie_ was seeing on Try is showing up on inbound now
  1005. # [18:17] <evilpie_> ..., not me at least :)
  1006. # [18:17] <mbrubeck> ah, maybe bug 753452
  1007. # [18:19] * Joins: msucan1 (mihai@E66E4956.B30402B1.699550A1.IP)
  1008. # [18:20] <mbrubeck> except that one is mochitest-chrome
  1009. # [18:20] <mbrubeck> great, and evilpie_'s Try push was based on a changeset that *I* just landed on m-c. :P
  1010. # [18:20] * Quits: msucan (mihai@E66E4956.B30402B1.699550A1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  1011. # [18:21] * Joins: biesi (cbiesinger@moz-5EE692A7.ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  1012. # [18:21] * mbrubeck suspects IGC
  1013. # [18:22] * Joins: Hixie (ianh@C6D27F7B.5EFFBB68.81BC061B.IP)
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  1016. # [18:22] * Joins: tchevalier (Instantbir@moz-67A6DCF6.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  1017. # [18:23] <evilpie_> yes
  1018. # [18:23] <evilpie_> not soo good
  1019. # [18:24] * Quits: Ally (textual@moz-26DFFD6.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  1020. # [18:25] * mbrubeck retriggers lots of debug M5s
  1021. # [18:25] * Quits: jacek (jacek@moz-5D707D3B.psi.wroc.pl) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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  1029. # [18:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dveditz
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  1031. # [18:38] <mbrubeck> my retriggers never produce any of the possible answers I expect...
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  1095. # [20:07] <NeilAway> bah, why is the test even using ===
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  1097. # [20:08] * NeilAway sighs
  1098. # [20:09] <NeilAway> and the test uses the same setup each time, so you don't know which one has failed without reading the full log
  1099. # [20:10] <JonathanS> strict comparsions.
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  1102. # [20:15] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/53d47b23009b - Mihai Sucan - Bug 673148 - (async-webconsole) Part 1 - Make console API async; r=rcampbell,felipc
  1103. # [20:15] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/6d1fa0441830 - Mihai Sucan - Bug 673148 - (async-webconsole) Part 2 - Make script and style errors async; r=rcampbell,felipc
  1104. # [20:15] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/c758cc9b60e5 - Tim Taubert - merge m-c to fx-team
  1105. # [20:16] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5df471539342 - Mihai Sucan - Bug 673148 - (async-webconsole) Fix nsFrameMessageManager crasher; r=smaug
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  1128. # [20:48] <NeilAway> bah, why don't infos appear in the test harness?
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  1157. # [21:30] <atuljangra> hey, any help with Thunderbird build,..
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  1159. # [21:33] <WG9s> perhaps, but have really not done a thundrbird build in about 3 years so I bet I will not be of much help.
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  1161. # [21:36] <atuljangra> WG9s: I did a TB build, one month ago, with reference form this https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Simple_Thunderbird_build, but now when I am trying to execute python client.py -checkout, I am getting errors,
  1162. # [21:36] <atuljangra> errors are mainly due to hg PULL -r ./.
  1163. # [21:36] <atuljangra> errors are mainly due to *hg PULL -R ./.
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  1165. # [21:37] * NeilAway needs someone who knows about flushing pending notification
  1166. # [21:37] <NeilAway> s
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  1170. # [21:42] <WG9s> atuljangra: I wonder if you for some reason need to start over with a clone and there is some reason why a pull to update to latest is not working. I am just guessing here. I generally only do firefox builds and periodically do start over type things from the hg bundles. I do not try to do hg pulls on really old repositories.
  1171. # [21:43] <atuljangra> WG9s: Okay thanks :)
  1172. # [21:43] <atuljangra> I'll try that :)
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  1176. # [21:51] <WG9s> atuljangra: also if you are using Microsoft VS9, like I am, you might run into bug 753790a and bug 754209.
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  1179. # [21:51] <atuljangra> WG9s: I am a linux user :)
  1180. # [21:51] <WG9s> ah well then no issue ther
  1181. # [21:51] <WG9s> there
  1182. # [21:52] <atuljangra> WG9s: Thanks :)
  1183. # [21:52] <WG9s> my linux builds worked fine despite those 2 issues.
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  1185. # [21:52] <atuljangra> which two issues?
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  1188. # [21:54] <WG9s> the 2 bugs affecting windows builds using vc9.
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  1190. # [21:54] <WG9s> were not issues at all under linux
  1191. # [21:55] <WG9s> linux is my normal platform i just also do windowsw builds that i use at work becuase they insist i use a windows desktop system.
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  1193. # [21:56] <atuljangra> WG9s: Yes :) By the way, where are you from?
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  1196. # [21:56] <WG9s> Boston Massachusetts area
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  1198. # [21:57] <atuljangra> WG9s: Great :) Where do you work?
  1199. # [21:58] <WG9s> Work in Tewksbury Mss fo a defense contractor who prefers I don't way who they are.
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  1201. # [21:58] <atuljangra> WG9s: Nice :)
  1202. # [21:59] <WG9s> but then, how many defense contractors have a presence in Tewksbury Mass?
  1203. # [21:59] <WG9s> I am guessing 1.
  1204. # [22:00] <atuljangra> ah, :)
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  1224. # [22:29] <WG9s> atuljangra: What I build I document at http://www.wg9s.com/mozilla/firefox/
  1225. # [22:29] <vikash> atuljangra, hey
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  1231. # [22:37] <atuljangra> vikash: hey :)
  1232. # [22:37] * Joins: bjacob (bjacob@moz-ADCA75DC.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  1233. # [22:37] <vikash> wats up :-)
  1234. # [22:38] <atuljangra> WG9s: Thanks :) I am referring to that :)
  1235. # [22:38] <atuljangra> vikash: nothing much, was going through the documentations and stuff, and finally exams over.
  1236. # [22:39] <vikash> Congrats mine starting from Tuesday :'(
  1237. # [22:39] <atuljangra> vikash: Yo :P
  1238. # [22:39] <vikash> atuljangra, No more Yo Yo :'(
  1239. # [22:40] <atuljangra> vikash: Suggest me a new laptop, should I go for ultrabook, or Macbook air?
  1240. # [22:40] <vikash> atuljangra, hmmm I see where this GSoC money is going :P
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  1242. # [22:40] <vikash> I have a confusion b/w Air and Pro :-)
  1243. # [22:41] <atuljangra> vikash: No my budget is 70K so no pro for now,
  1244. # [22:41] <vikash> Why? rest money going for any startup? or savings?
  1245. # [22:42] <atuljangra> No, I am buying it within a week, and my present laptop is a disaster, so I need it for doing gsoc work also, so present budget 70k .
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  1248. # [22:44] <vikash> I will say go with Air then but I think its around 90K.
  1249. # [22:44] <vikash> Also people using it can have better suggestion :-)
  1250. # [22:45] <atuljangra> which laptop are you using?
  1251. # [22:45] <vikash> I got this one from college, Lenovo SL 400c [c as in customized by college and this 'c' made it too sucky ]
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  1253. # [22:46] <atuljangra> haha okay :)
  1254. # [22:46] <vikash> Its a think pad but because of college customizing it, they ruined the beauty
  1255. # [22:46] <atuljangra> I have not used mac OS, but why is it so much appreciated but developers?
  1256. # [22:47] <vikash> hmm, ask it here
  1257. # [22:47] <vikash> Actually i also wish to see replies for this :P
  1258. # [22:47] <atuljangra> Any Mac user here??
  1259. # [22:47] <atuljangra> yes :P
  1260. # [22:48] <vikash> I guess you must ask, how many not mac users here :P i believe most of them use Mac :-)
  1261. # [22:48] <JonathanS> atuljangra, is that more like given?
  1262. # [22:49] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  1263. # [22:49] <atuljangra> JonathanS: are you a mac user?:)
  1264. # [22:49] <JonathanS> Yes and Windows
  1265. # [22:50] <atuljangra> Windows on mac, with dual boot?
  1266. # [22:50] <JonathanS> atuljangra, seperate machine
  1267. # [22:51] <atuljangra> JonathanS: Okay. :) Why is mac so popular among developers? I am a Linux user, and find it really good for Development purposes.
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  1269. # [22:52] <JonathanS> atuljangra, tools
  1270. # [22:53] <atuljangra> JonathanS: Like?
  1271. # [22:54] <JonathanS> shark, debugging, clang/llvm
  1272. # [22:54] <atuljangra> Okay :)
  1273. # [22:54] <vikash> cers, You can drop in with some suggestion her on OS wars :-)
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  1275. # [22:55] <cers> atuljangra, vikash: I 100% of the time prefer linux over any other OS for development :-)
  1276. # [22:56] <vikash> cers, then why do you use Mac :P
  1277. # [22:56] <cers> whenever I have to do anything on Windows or Mac, I spend half a day to months getting a working environment - and sometimes it just isn't possible
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  1279. # [22:56] <atuljangra> JonathanS: Have you used Linux. ?
  1280. # [22:56] <JonathanS> atuljangra, some times
  1281. # [22:56] <cers> vikash: because I have a mac - and my pc broke :-)
  1282. # [22:57] <vikash> pc?? You mean it got broken up by virus, trojans, Malware or got shattered?
  1283. # [22:57] <atuljangra> cers: same is the case with me, I use windows only when I am playing Counter Strike or Battlefield.
  1284. # [22:57] <cers> vikash: I'm not entirely sure, but I think the motherboard died
  1285. # [22:57] <cers> atuljangra: ahh yes - for playing games, windows is often the best choice
  1286. # [22:58] <cers> and mac is better than linux there too
  1287. # [22:58] <vikash> Dual Boot :-)
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  1289. # [22:58] <atuljangra> JonathanS: So how would you compare development in linux, and Mac.
  1290. # [22:58] <atuljangra> vikash: Yes Dual boot :)
  1291. # [22:59] <atuljangra> cers: Yes,I wish linux had support for gaming and other multimedia activities also...
  1292. # [22:59] <JonathanS> atuljangra, Linux development is a like jungle over many environments and toolkit.
  1293. # [22:59] <cers> plus, in general, I detest Apple for their restrictive nature - so even if it was just as good as linux for development, I'd choose linux
  1294. # [23:00] <cers> JonathanS: true - but you can always choose a more mainstream one and be pretty confident you can get a working environment
  1295. # [23:00] <vikash> atuljangra, cers Gaming is improving day by day for linux.
  1296. # [23:00] <atuljangra> JonathanS: agreed with cers .
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  1298. # [23:01] <cers> vikash: it has been since I started using linux - like... 10+ years ago - still isn't there though
  1299. # [23:01] <JonathanS> cers, a lot of people have different opinion for "mainsteam"
  1300. # [23:01] <vikash> For me Linux is flexibility, Mac is lots of apps availability
  1301. # [23:01] <cers> JonathanS: indeed - hence "one of" :-)
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  1305. # [23:01] <JonathanS> my way would be like Qt.
  1306. # [23:01] <jtcranmer> huh
  1307. # [23:02] <cers> JonathanS: I see I actually forgot "one of" in my comment - I meant it to be there :-P
  1308. # [23:02] <jtcranmer> why do we still have the *String{Ref,Ptr} typedefs in IDL?
  1309. # [23:03] <atuljangra> vikash, cers Yes, I guess EA has announced few games for Ubuntu.
  1310. # [23:03] <atuljangra> http://omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/05/ea-games-arrive-in-the-ubuntu-software-center/
  1311. # [23:03] <cers> atuljangra: as far as I remember - they are all broser based games
  1312. # [23:03] <cers> browser*
  1313. # [23:03] <vikash> Whatever be the reason for Windows, I respect it for one reason. that was the first OS I used and taught me how to use a computer :-)
  1314. # [23:03] <vikash> No offence please
  1315. # [23:04] <JonathanS> point taken
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  1317. # [23:04] <atuljangra> cers: Yes.
  1318. # [23:05] <cers> atuljangra: so they're not really for any OS - but it's a start - it might let them see that there are lots of people wanting to game on linux
  1319. # [23:05] <jtcranmer> JonathanS: "mainstream" Linux generally means "use the defaults in one of the major distributions = RHEL-ish, Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Mint"
  1320. # [23:05] <atuljangra> vikash: Good point, but now we are judging from developers point of view.
  1321. # [23:05] <jtcranmer> or, more simply, "does it work in either GNOME, KDE, or both?"
  1322. # [23:06] <vikash> atuljangra, :-)
  1323. # [23:06] <jtcranmer> [there are some shared standards, particularly in file configuration placement, but most other desktops are not so fully-integrated]
  1324. # [23:07] <JonathanS> jtcranmer, many distros have different type of OS
  1325. # [23:07] <vikash> Linux is kernel :-)
  1326. # [23:07] <jtcranmer> they all share the same kernel, and the development stack is largely the same
  1327. # [23:07] <vikash> jtcranmer, +1
  1328. # [23:07] * Quits: @smaug (chatzilla@moz-23D9E1D9.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout)
  1329. # [23:07] <JonathanS> just software API is all different
  1330. # [23:08] <jtcranmer> although we probably will see use of clang's stack more in the next 5 years
  1331. # [23:08] * Quits: harth (harth@88F51059.F3BBB17D.144F44FA.IP) (Input/output error)
  1332. # [23:08] <jtcranmer> but Linux is largely homogeneous in terms of the core OS, especially compared to other Unix-based systems
  1333. # [23:08] <vikash> One benefit with Mac is all major s/w, API are first released for Mac or PC and then for Linux
  1334. # [23:09] <vikash> even with GDrive it happend the same
  1335. # [23:09] <jtcranmer> the main differences are the windowing toolkit (GTK+ or QT), which translates into GNOME v kDE
  1336. # [23:09] <atuljangra> vikash: agreed.
  1337. # [23:09] <jtcranmer> even then, all major desktop environments have more or less agreed to a set of common standards
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  1339. # [23:10] <vikash> jtcranmer, Again X-Window env remains the same
  1340. # [23:10] <jtcranmer> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications
  1341. # [23:11] <jtcranmer> so it's no less heterogeneous than, say, Windows XP v Windows 7
  1342. # [23:13] <vikash> Also the real power of Linux is being openSource and according to me ) It teaches a lot to students like me and atuljangra 2) It increases the flexibility eg, Android, ChromeOS 3) Compatible on different flavours of Linux [if needed with minor tweaks]
  1343. # [23:13] <JonathanS> Ubuntu = Unity, it is quite awkward.
  1344. # [23:13] <vikash> +1
  1345. # [23:13] <vikash> I didn't like Unity as much as I like GNOME3
  1346. # [23:13] <atuljangra> vikash: +1.
  1347. # [23:14] <JonathanS> vikash, I am concern of API would be copyrigtable like from Google-Oracle cases.
  1348. # [23:15] <jtcranmer> that is a scary case in the making
  1349. # [23:15] <cers> I actually haven't tried unity - I'm a KDE fan
  1350. # [23:15] <jtcranmer> I think if Oracle does win the API-copyrightable argument
  1351. # [23:16] <jtcranmer> there would be a strong push on Congress to declare an exception in copyright law
  1352. # [23:16] * dwarfcrank prefers Xfce
  1353. # [23:16] <JonathanS> jtcranmer, if that does, it would set bad precedent for API in the software industry
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  1356. # [23:17] <atuljangra> jtcranmer: yes that can be the case if Oracle wins.
  1357. # [23:17] * Joins: Mardak (Mardak@moz-BFBF7623.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  1358. # [23:18] <JonathanS> atuljangra, IBM would sue Oracle for SQL
  1359. # [23:19] * Joins: vikash (vikash@4C387D7C.9B552DFD.5D9ABA9F.IP)
  1360. # [23:19] <vikash> JonathanS, I think [I may be wrong in this case] but that depends on various reasons. say Google wrote libc for Android. it shouldn't have any issues of that sort
  1361. # [23:19] <vikash> [Ignore if already received]
  1362. # [23:19] <JonathanS> vikash, libc is from BSD.
  1363. # [23:20] <vikash> Did Google licence it under BSD?
  1364. # [23:20] <atuljangra> JonathanS: Yes, I think it will push congress to change or declare an exception.
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  1367. # [23:20] <JonathanS> vikash, Android Java code is under Apache
  1368. # [23:21] <vikash> Java was the issue for Orcale?
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  1370. # [23:21] * Standard8 is now known as Standard8Away
  1371. # [23:21] <JonathanS> vikash, yes 37 Java API
  1372. # [23:21] <vikash> I guess it wasn't in any way related to Linux
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  1375. # [23:22] <vikash> So...
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  1377. # [23:23] <JonathanS> vikash, If I did extending one of java API, Oracle would ask me for license.
  1378. # [23:24] <vikash> I remember reading once a quote on licensing, "We are programmers and not lawyers" I think in the real world this goes with a phase shift of pi/2
  1379. # [23:26] <vikash> JonathanS, I think Oracle guys would have a better answer to that. They might say yes, but I dont think this is the right thing to do IMHO
  1380. # [23:26] <atuljangra> atuljangra: yes, i read that too, but in real world, this is generally not the case.
  1381. # [23:26] <JonathanS> vikash, it is like "Damn it Jim, I am doctor but not mechanic"
  1382. # [23:26] <vikash> atuljangra, you can talk to us :P
  1383. # [23:26] <vikash> :-)
  1384. # [23:26] <vikash> JonathanS, o.O
  1385. # [23:27] <vikash> And why does there are no law suits saying say XYZ language is using JVM?
  1386. # [23:27] <atuljangra> vikash: )
  1387. # [23:27] <JonathanS> Star Trek quotes.
  1388. # [23:27] <atuljangra> :)
  1389. # [23:27] * Joins: JeroenDeDauw (j@3D8B249.714666EF.52AB9A83.IP)
  1390. # [23:27] <vikash> Ah! Haven't watch star trek yet :'(
  1391. # [23:28] <cers> vikash: depending on what you want to watch - it can take a while... I spent some months wathcing every episode of every season..
  1392. # [23:28] <cers> vikash: tried doing it with the movies too - had to give up - some of them are just too bad
  1393. # [23:29] <vikash> cers, like
  1394. # [23:29] * Quits: msucan (mihai@E66E4956.B30402B1.699550A1.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1395. # [23:29] <jtcranmer> cers: skip the odd-numbered star trek movies
  1396. # [23:29] <cers> vikash: I think I gave up on the 3rd or 4th movie
  1397. # [23:29] <jtcranmer> that makes it easier
  1398. # [23:29] <vikash> JonathanS, http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/License_Groups Look the disclaimer
  1399. # [23:29] <cers> either it was the one with the whale, or the one after
  1400. # [23:29] <cers> (I hope that wasn't a spoiler)
  1401. # [23:30] * vikash has no idea what whale cers is talking about
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  1403. # [23:30] <vikash> cers, Ok, done next sem I will watch some:-)
  1404. # [23:30] <cers> the whale one is #4
  1405. # [23:31] <atuljangra> vikash, cers where is our OS war?:P
  1406. # [23:31] <JonathanS> cers, There Be Whale Here!
  1407. # [23:31] <cers> vikash: but really - the tv series is better than the movies I think
  1408. # [23:31] <vikash> Ok, I will watch both
  1409. # [23:31] <vikash> :D
  1410. # [23:32] <cers> JonathanS: on a side note, I very recently made a scale 2:1 inflatable sperm whale for an unrelaed event (hitchhiker's guide to the universe related)
  1411. # [23:32] <JonathanS> I have deeply hatred on Nemesis.
  1412. # [23:32] * vikash hides
  1413. # [23:32] <cers> whales are big - 2:1 is just ridiculous
  1414. # [23:33] * vikash has certain spiritual powers to change the topic of discussion :P
  1415. # [23:33] <atuljangra> vikash: :P ;)
  1416. # [23:33] <cers> http://imgur.com/a/JGc27#3
  1417. # [23:33] <cers> that's me touching it :-P
  1418. # [23:33] <JonathanS> cers, on that whale movie, I really like McCoy act like doctor and gave woman a pill for kidney.
  1419. # [23:34] <atuljangra> cers: nice:)
  1420. # [23:34] <vikash> cers, You are an actor?
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  1422. # [23:34] <vikash> cers, The pic is nice
  1423. # [23:34] <vikash> plastic bags have space for fins :P
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  1426. # [23:35] <cers> vikash: nope - previously math/physics student, now it-student + builder of weird things people need for weird events :-P
  1427. # [23:36] <atuljangra> cers: now that's an interesting job to do :P
  1428. # [23:36] * Quits: JeroenDeDauw (j@3D8B249.714666EF.52AB9A83.IP) (Ping timeout)
  1429. # [23:36] <cers> atuljangra: that's the idea(l) :-)
  1430. # [23:36] <vikash> cers, I already went through your LinkedIn, twitter and G+ profiles :D
  1431. # [23:36] <cers> vikash: hahahaha
  1432. # [23:37] <cers> vikash: my linkedin isn't very updated at all
  1433. # [23:37] <vikash> I know it all .*he he ha ha*
  1434. # [23:37] <vikash> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=5158878&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=1_DX&locale=en_US&srchid=bedbb711-dcc0-445e-93f1-81a37f907fc2-0&srchindex=5&srchtotal=11&goback=.fps_PBCK_*1_Christian_Sonne_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_*1_*51_*1_*51_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link
  1435. # [23:37] <JonathanS> I don't have one.
  1436. # [23:38] <bjacob> someone help me -- insanity wolf spirit is taking me over: i'm about to land 6 patches to mozilla-aurora without a tryserver run on a saturday night
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  1438. # [23:39] <vikash> bjacob, I am not an aurora dev but 6 patches sounds great. but on a serious note can you please tell me the generic of wolf it will help me while doing the exorcism [Apologies for trolling :D]
  1439. # [23:40] <jdm> bjacob: well, at least you recognize it!
  1440. # [23:40] <bjacob> jdm: isn't that an aggravating circumstance?
  1441. # [23:41] * Joins: teoli (teoli@71F9A83C.EA130E53.75A3463D.IP)
  1442. # [23:43] <vikash> atuljangra, JonathanS cers so now final ending on OS wars?
  1443. # [23:43] * Quits: Yoric (Yoric@moz-920DB13B.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout)
  1444. # [23:44] * Joins: ericjung (Mibbit@moz-C6B344D.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  1445. # [23:44] <atuljangra> I guess yes :) JonathanS , cers , any final note on OS wars?
  1446. # [23:45] * Joins: fryn (fyan@moz-59682A1.dmz.scl3.mozilla.com)
  1447. # [23:45] <cers> hehe, I will say one thing - my Firefox has been much more stable in OS X than it was when I ran linux - but I don't know whose fault that is
  1448. # [23:45] * Quits: fryn (fyan@moz-59682A1.dmz.scl3.mozilla.com) (Quit: leaving)
  1449. # [23:45] <JonathanS> cers, also, Apple software is more stable in OS X than in Windows. :)
  1450. # [23:45] <vikash> hmm, nice escape :)
  1451. # [23:45] * Joins: fryn (fyan@moz-59682A1.dmz.scl3.mozilla.com)
  1452. # [23:46] <cers> JonathanS: I wouldn't use apple software if I could help it anyway :-P
  1453. # [23:46] <JonathanS> heh
  1454. # [23:46] <vikash> I *might* the OSX league in some time
  1455. # [23:47] <JonathanS> Y U BROKE GCC?
  1456. # [23:47] <JonathanS> bye
  1457. # [23:47] <vikash> lolz
  1458. # [23:47] <vikash> bye
  1459. # [23:47] <vikash> gn
  1460. # [23:48] <atuljangra> I guess I'll stick to Linux for now.
  1461. # [23:48] <atuljangra> hehe :P
  1462. # [23:48] <vikash> :P
  1463. # [23:49] <jdm> bjacob: I suggest you channel your insanity wolf spirit into fixing the topcrasher I have provided two testcases for
  1464. # [23:49] <jdm> because it is killing me
  1465. # [23:49] <bjacob> jdm: which one?
  1466. # [23:49] <jdm> bjacob: bug 753350
  1467. # [23:49] <cers> vikash: see what you made me do now? - I've updated my linkedin - now I'll have to respond to a billion connection requests
  1468. # [23:49] <atuljangra> cers: hehe :P
  1469. # [23:49] <vikash> :p
  1470. # [23:50] <bjacob> jdm: i had not seen it, but it's the kind of shit i usually deal with so i'll try :-)
  1471. # [23:50] * Joins: jfkthame (jfkthame@moz-13ADB32A.cable.virginmedia.com)
  1472. # [23:50] * jdm rubs his hands gleefully
  1473. # [23:51] <atuljangra> vikash: you have got one new request :P
  1474. # [23:51] <bjacob> jdm: is it flash specific? or can be reproduced without flash?
  1475. # [23:51] <vikash> atuljangra, no
  1476. # [23:51] <jdm> bjacob: I haven't a clue.
  1477. # [23:52] <bjacob> jdm: do all of your known testcases use flash?
  1478. # [23:52] <jdm> bjacob: I'm not sure about the most recent one; let me check the source in chrome
  1479. # [23:52] * Quits: teoli (teoli@71F9A83C.EA130E53.75A3463D.IP) (Quit: L'ordinateur  est en sommeil)
  1480. # [23:52] <atuljangra> vikash: in linkedIn
  1481. # [23:52] <vikash> one min
  1482. # [23:52] * Joins: teoli (teoli@71F9A83C.EA130E53.75A3463D.IP)
  1483. # [23:52] <bjacob> jdm: alternatively, disable flash and see if you still crash
  1484. # [23:52] * Quits: jfkthame (jfkthame@moz-13ADB32A.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: jfkthame)
  1485. # [23:52] <jdm> bjacob: ah, it's got flash on it
  1486. # [23:52] <jdm> fair point
  1487. # [23:53] <vikash> atuljangra, now, yup :-)
  1488. # [23:53] <bjacob> jdm: ok
  1489. # [23:53] <jdm> bjacob: with click-to-play turned on the page doesn't crash
  1490. # [23:53] <bjacob> jdm: interesting. do you have a debug build handy?
  1491. # [23:54] <jdm> bjacob: not recent at all
  1492. # [23:54] <jdm> and I don't think I can realistically update on hostel wifi
  1493. # [23:54] <bjacob> ok. if you had a very recent one, i'd ask you to run from terminal and give me the output
  1494. # [23:54] <bjacob> ok
  1495. # [23:54] * Quits: teoli (teoli@71F9A83C.EA130E53.75A3463D.IP) (Ping timeout)
  1496. # [23:55] <vikash> bjacob, was just kiddin, I hope you didn't mind
  1497. # [23:55] <bjacob> vikash: ? no worries at all
  1498. # [23:55] <vikash> bjacob, thanks :-)
  1499. # [23:58] <bjacob> BenWa: ping. do you know if Mac plugins (flash) could break the assumption that a GLContext is only ever used by the owning thread?
  1500. # [23:58] <BenWa> Umm
  1501. # [23:58] <BenWa> They wont use our GLContext wrapper thing
  1502. # [23:58] <BenWa> The plugin container code or the plugin itself will use the native GLContext directly
  1503. # [23:58] <bjacob> BenWa: what about the part of gecko that composites the plugin's output?
  1504. # [23:59] <BenWa> That would be within the layer
  1505. # [23:59] <BenWa> all that should happen on the main thread
  1506. # [23:59] <bjacob> ok. btw, what kind of layer is that?
  1507. # Session Close: Sun May 13 00:00:00 2012

The end :)