/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-06-26 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Jun 26 00:00:01 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
# [00:00] <sawrubh> jdm: should I add other interfaces which can be queried to that context ?
# [00:00] <jdm> sawrubh: probably, yeah. give it a shot.
# [00:00] * sawrubh prepares his shot
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# [00:04] <sawrubh> jdm: wait , I think adding extra interfaces would be wrong, coz our model aims to work with what exists and if the context isn't currently supporting the other interfaces, we shouldn't add them
# [00:04] <sawrubh> let me ask ehsan , he seems to be the author of the test
# [00:04] <ekr> I have some compiled unit tests that I enabled by adding them to CPP_UNIT_TESTS However, they seem to be running even when I just ask the try server to build, not run tests. Is this what is supposed to happen?
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# [00:05] <@khuey> yes
# [00:05] <@khuey> compiled tests run during make check
# [00:05] <@khuey> which happens on the builders
# [00:05] <ekr> Hmm....
# [00:05] <@khuey> there's no way to skip them
# [00:05] <jdm> sawrubh: this is just a test mockup; the interfaces are never supported in xpcshell tests otherwise
# [00:05] <@khuey> via the try syntax
# [00:05] <jdm> I think this is the proper way to proceed
# [00:05] <ekr> It looks like if any one of them fails, things just abort?
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# [00:05] <jdm> sawrubh: as long as the proper browser doesn't complain with your changes, at least
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# [00:06] <sawrubh> jdm: by proper browser what do you mean ? are there tests to catch that complaining or will I have to write them ?
# [00:07] <jdm> sawrubh: dunno, but a sanity check to make sure it works manually would be a good first step
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# [00:07] <sawrubh> jdm: sgtm
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# [00:08] <jdm> sawrubh: although, hum.
# [00:09] <jdm> I'm not thrilled with referring to gPrivateBrowsingUI inside toolkit/ code
# [00:09] <jdm> toolkit/ is shared among all gecko products; gPrivateBrowsingUI is Firefox-only
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# [00:09] <mbrubeck> Yeah, usually we try to obfuscate those things by wrapping them into XPCOM "services".... :)
# [00:10] <jdm> haha
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# [00:10] <mbrubeck> It might still be Firefox-only, but at least it's not as obvious. :P
# [00:10] <ekr> khuey: so, basically, I'm hosed?
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# [00:11] <jdm> sawrubh: what if you used http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/components/privatebrowsing/test/browser/head.js#37 with parent instead of aWindow?
# [00:11] <sawrubh> ehsan: ping
# [00:12] <sawrubh> jdm: let me try
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# [00:13] <sawrubh> jdm: line 37 refers to a docshell but the signature didn't show any docshells associated with parent
# [00:13] <@khuey> ekr: uh, that depends on what you want ...
# [00:13] <sawrubh> did you give the correct line
# [00:13] <@khuey> ekr: can't you just disable the test?
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# [00:13] <@khuey> by removing it from the makefile?
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# [00:14] <ekr> khuey: what I want is standalone compiled unit tests (using gtest, as it happens) that run automatically on commit. But I would like them to (a) not run in the build phase (b) to all run even if one fails, like ordinary tests do.
# [00:15] <Bas> nrc: Mac bustage :)
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# [00:15] <nrc> Who is looking after the tree right now?
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# [00:15] <philor> I'm halfway through getting a backout of your push ready, if that counts?
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# [00:16] <nrc> philor: if it's OK, I can fix it real easy, the patches are missing two ".forgets()"
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# [00:17] <nrc> if you'd rather backout, I can do it that way, obviously
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# [00:17] <philor> nah, fix it
# [00:17] <nrc> sorry about the bustage too!
# [00:17] <nrc> ok, thanks, just be a sec to make a patch... (I expect the Windows builds will bust too, same reason)
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# [00:18] <@khuey> ekr: yeah you're hosed
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# [00:19] <ekr> khuey: in that case, is there a way to stop the tests from running by default? Maybe by making them SIMPLE_PROGRAMS rather than CPP_UNIT_TESTS?
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# [00:21] <nrc> philor: what do I need in the commit message for my fix patch?
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# [00:22] <philor> nrc: nothing in particular besides one of the bug numbers, "bug whichever followup, actually compile" is nice ;)
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# [00:23] <philor> despite the way people make odd claims like "r=red" we don't actually have a hook that looks for review
# [00:24] <jhammel> firebot: r?
# [00:24] <firebot> jhammel: Was it not... er, someone, who said: R is registered trademark.
# [00:26] <nrc> philor: thanks! Fix has landed
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# [00:26] <philor> \o/
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# [00:27] <philor> heh, our advice for seeing your results on try is "keep clicking the down arrow until you get back to your push" despite the way we'll have a 24+ hour test backlog going by tomorrow?
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# [00:28] <@khuey> no, our advice for seeing your results on try is "push to inbound and get them there"
# [00:28] <philor> due to a bug which will be fixed by some future hg release and the upgrading to that future release?
# [00:28] <hub> philor: yeah I got bitten by that breakage
# [00:28] <hub> *sigh*
# [00:28] <philor> yeah, I don't think I'll be giving people crap about pushing totally broken crap for a while
# [00:29] <philor> since I'm lucky when I can load 30 pushes at a time, much less 27 hours worth of try pushes
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# [00:34] <sawrubh> jdm|f00ding: using the QI goop in that "head.js" didn't work. Again it's failing at the |.getInterface(Ci.nsIWebNavigation)|
# [00:35] <philor> nrc: still busted
# [00:37] <sawrubh> The QI goop is this
# [00:37] <sawrubh> parent.QueryInterface(Ci.nsIInterfaceRequestor).getInterface(Ci.nsIWebNavigation).QueryInterface(Ci.nsIDocShellTreeItem).treeOwner.QueryInterface(Ci.nsIInterfaceRequestor).getInterface(Ci.nsIXULWindow).docShell.QueryInterface(Ci.nsILoadContext).usePrivateBrowsing;
# [00:37] <nrc> philor: ah, sorry, the same fail?
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# [00:37] <philor> nrc: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=12980736&tree=Mozilla-Inbound - gfxMacFont
# [00:37] <sawrubh> jdm|f00ding: I've given you some food for thought ;)
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# [00:39] <hub_> still broken
# [00:39] <hub_> yeah
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# [00:40] <nrc> philor: sorry, assumptions about tiny changes not causing breakage if they compile on one platform
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# [00:42] <nrc> philor: probably better to back it out at this stage, I think the fix is small, but I should test that it compiles
# [00:42] <Mook_as> sawrubh: what's |parent| again? a DOM window?
# [00:42] <nrc> philor: shall I back it out or do you want to?
# [00:42] <philor> nrc: I'm happy to let you
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# [00:43] <nrc> philor: OK, shall do
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# [00:50] <sawrubh> Mook_as: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/toolkit/mozapps/downloads/nsHelperAppDlg.js#244
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# [00:52] <sawrubh> Mook_as: from it's signature |parent| doesn't look to be a chrome window, so I assume it's a browser window
# [00:52] <sawrubh> Mook_as: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722995#c10
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# [00:56] <Mook_as> sawrubh: looks like it ends up coming from aWindowContext in http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/uriloader/exthandler/nsExternalHelperAppService.cpp#561
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# [01:10] <sawrubh> Mook_as: thanks, but I still don't get why the getInterface is not completing
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# [01:11] <Mook_as> sawrubh: silly debugging test: getInterface everything in Ci and see what it can get you :p
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# [01:12] <sawrubh> Mook_as: I'm trying to dump the getInterfaces but they return empty, I'm using Object.keys to list out their components
# [01:12] <sawrubh> let me try some more
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# [01:13] * sawrubh wants a chrome debugger
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# [01:17] <philor> BenWa: busted
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# [01:18] <Mook_as> sawrubh:oh, I was trying to recommend for (i in Ci) try { parent.getInterface(i) } catch {}; dump(parent)
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# [01:18] * sawrubh tries
# [01:19] * Mook_as wonders how badly broken venkman is these days
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# [01:19] <sawrubh> Mook_as: what's venkman ?
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# [01:19] <devd> halp! can someone tell me what is the difference between nsDocument and nsIDocument. I figure nsIDocument is just the XPCom interface for nsDocument, but in the code for nsIDocument.h, I can't find the word 'nsDocument.h'.. how is it all connected ?
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# [01:20] <devd> imelven: ping ^^
# [01:21] <sawrubh> devd: from what I know, the IDL file is parsed by the IDL parser to generate these header files, but then I might be completely wrong :P
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# [01:22] <Mook_as> devd: I'd guess via http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/base/src/nsDocument.h#463 ?
# [01:22] <Jesse> khuey|away, mccr8: http://www.vupen.com/blog/20120625.Advanced_Exploitation_of_Mozilla_Firefox_UaF_CVE-2012-0469.php makes me wonder what we can do to (1) make these kinds of bugs less likely and (2) make these kinds of bugs less exploitable
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# [01:23] <devd> Mook_as: err thanks
# [01:23] <devd> Mook_as: don't I feel like an idiot
# [01:23] <devd> :)
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# [01:23] <devd> Jesse: I thought the bug wasn't very interesting
# [01:24] <devd> maybe I should read it again
# [01:25] <imelven> jesse: i was wondering those same exact 2 things when reading that post this morning.
# [01:25] <imelven> mostly around point (2)
# [01:25] <imelven> devd: pong
# [01:25] <imelven> did you get what you were looking for already ?
# [01:25] <devd> imelven: nvm
# [01:25] <devd> yup
# [01:26] <imelven> devd: cool :)
# [01:26] <mccr8> Jesse: I'm reading over it now
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# [01:30] <devd> Jesse: in general, some randomization can help with sprays, right?
# [01:30] <mccr8> Jesse: I'm not really sure. These C++->JS edges are a pretty nasty corner of the browser, as they can't be managed by either refcounting or the GC.
# [01:30] <devd> "The object used to perform the object spray is an HTML tag of length 0x80 bytes"
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# [01:31] <devd> can't we mitigate that ? is that a common thing?
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# [01:32] <devd> mccr8: would webidl make these edges less nasty?
# [01:32] <devd> s/would/can
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# [01:33] <mccr8> dved: probably not.
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# [01:34] <mccr8> maybe we could shift around who is responsible for removing things like that. though if you remove things too soon you get other use-after-free problems...
# [01:34] <devd> I was thinking maybe webidl allows us to move from refcounting to GC for the DOM too.. then both JS and DOM could use the same algorithm
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# [01:37] <JonathanS> http://i.imgur.com/R3i3j.jpg oh boy.
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# [01:38] <JonathanS> horrible photos.
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# [01:41] <mccr8> devd: allocating DOM objects with the GC would be a huge amount of work.
# [01:42] * NeilAway looks for someone to thwap
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# [01:44] <darktrojan> NeilAway, what have I done now?
# [01:44] <njn> can I use 100-char lines in xpconnect? I heard that xpconnect now uses JS code style guidelines...
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# [01:46] <terrence> njn: yes, if you can get an r+ on the patch :-)
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# [01:46] <njn> terrence: how Machiavellian of you
# [01:47] <mccr8> njn: yes, xpconnect uses js style
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# [01:47] <njn> mccr8: k, thx.
# [01:47] <espindola> NeilAway, yes?
# [01:47] <terrence> njn: the fewer styles I have to remember, the better
# [01:47] <njn> mccr8: actually, it's an amusing notion, because existing xpconnect code doesn't use JS style *at all*
# [01:48] <mccr8> njn: yes, there was a little bit of a cleanup of it by bholley, but a lot of old badness remains.
# [01:48] <njn> mccr8: e.g. JS style is to not brace single line statements, while Gecko and old-xpconnect style is to brace them
# [01:48] <njn> mccr8: so I never know what to do
# [01:48] <NeilAway> espindola: what exactly is the point of crashing my debug build on shutdown, without even telling me what went wrong and what I might have to look into fixing?
# [01:48] <NeilAway> espindola: bug 711076
# [01:48] <njn> mccr8: but I'll start using 100-char lines, that's easy
# [01:48] <mccr8> right. I've been using JS style non-bracing in XPConnect.
# [01:49] <espindola> NeilAway, finding the bug
# [01:49] <mccr8> njn: I don't know if I've seen anybody use long lines, but if somebody complains you can just point at the JS style guide. ;)
# [01:49] <espindola> I should be easy to find which connection is not being closed
# [01:50] <espindola> s/I/it/
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# [02:03] * njn is impressed by the Firefox Mobile Reddit AMA
# [02:04] * njn was wondering what the compelling reason to switch to Firefox Mobile would be, and wasn't expecting it to be "it's faster than the stock browser" :)
# [02:05] <devd> has anyone ever looked at ninjabuild for M-C ? http://martine.github.com/ninja/manual.html
# [02:06] <biesi> njn, mobile firefox is amazing!
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# [02:09] <njn> biesi: sounds like it :)
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# [02:10] <NeilAway> espindola: sure, but an NS_ASSERTION would have sufficed :-P
# [02:10] <njn> biesi (or anyone else): why exactly doesn't apple allow Firefox on iPhone? Because it doesn't allow JIT compilers? Why is Opera allowed?
# [02:10] <fabrice1> njn: Opera Mini is allowed, which is a proxy browser
# [02:11] <fabrice1> not Opera Mobile
# [02:11] <njn> fabrice1: ah
# [02:11] <@roc> Apple doesn't allow third-party apps to download content from the Internet and execute it (either by interpretation or not)
# [02:11] <@roc> of course, that's what a browser does
# [02:11] <@roc> they also don't allow JIT compilers
# [02:11] <njn> fabrice1: how does a proxy browser deal with JS code?
# [02:11] <@roc> no marking data pages executable
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# [02:11] <@roc> Opera Mini runs JS on Opera's servers
# [02:12] <@khuey> "poorly"
# [02:12] <njn> roc: I'm having trouble imagining that working well
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# [02:12] <@roc> yes
# [02:12] <@roc> you'll never run games that way
# [02:12] <njn> ok, thanks for the clarification
# [02:12] <@roc> a lot of other things can work quite well though
# [02:12] <njn> gmail?
# [02:12] <NeilAway> njn: imagine running the browser over x forwarding through an ssh tunnel
# [02:12] <@roc> mccr8: I think there's probably quite a few things we can do there
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# [02:13] <devd> roc: have you seen onlive.com ?
# [02:13] <njn> NeilAway: that feels entirely different
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# [02:13] <devd> they run real games in the cloud
# [02:13] <@roc> devd: I've heard of it
# [02:13] <devd> and forward just the drawn things
# [02:13] <devd> arguably, games might be faster.. since the GPU in teh cloud is better
# [02:14] <@roc> I'd like to see it running over the cell network
# [02:14] <mccr8> roc: yeah, I should think about that a bit after I get some of the current stuff I'm working on cleared off my plate...
# [02:15] <devd> roc: Firefox for iOS is not just for cell network, right? I suspect it will work well over 4g, and ipad/iphone on wifi
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# [02:15] <devd> I haven't used Opera, but saying "you can never play games that way" seems a bit harsh
# [02:15] <@khuey> Firefox for iOS doesn't exist
# [02:15] <devd> err.. I meant browsers for iOS
# [02:16] <gavin> I'm sure tic-tac-toe would work well in a proxy browser
# [02:16] <darktrojan> hangman
# [02:16] <devd> once we have hangman
# [02:16] <devd> whats stopping cut the rope
# [02:16] <capella> mugwump
# [02:16] <devd> it is just hangman++ :P
# [02:17] <devd> ohh wait .. that's not what hangman is
# [02:17] <devd> :D
# [02:17] <devd> my mistake
# [02:18] <devd> one of the great things about executing in the cloud is no security issues
# [02:18] <biesi> only for opera itself :p
# [02:20] <hub> roc: which lead to the question: how is WebRTC gonna work on iOS?
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# [02:21] <@khuey> magic
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# [02:22] <@khuey> what is the mochitest equivalent of do_execute_soon?
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# [02:22] <gavin> executeSoon
# [02:23] <gavin> or SimpleTest.executeSoon
# [02:23] <@khuey> and does that do setTimeout(0), or does it actually post to the end of the event loop?
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# [02:24] <gavin> it does threadthing.scheduleTaskOrSomething(foo, nsIThread.EXECUTE_NORMAL) or somesuch
# [02:24] <@khuey> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/testing/mochitest/tests/SimpleTest/SimpleTest.js#654 is a mess
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# [02:24] <@khuey> and it looks like it falls back to setTimeout in certain situations
# [02:24] <@khuey> which won't work for me :-/
# [02:25] <gavin> probably never in practice
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# [02:25] <gavin> but you can just call mainThread.dispatch yourself if you're that picky!
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# [02:25] <@khuey> yeah
# [02:25] <@khuey> with some fun wallpaper
# [02:25] <@khuey> writing tests that execute in xpcshell and in mochitest is lots of fun
# [02:25] <gavin> o_O
# [02:25] <gavin> why
# [02:26] <@khuey> indexedDB runs in windows and in components
# [02:26] <@khuey> so do our tests
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# [02:27] <gavin> I see
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# [02:29] <@khuey> we hate it too ;-)
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# [02:40] <@roc> devd: sure, some games will work, but there are hard limits
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# [02:40] <@roc> there's also a power issue. The network is expensive
# [02:41] <@roc> hard to make offline Web apps work in the Opera Mini model
# [02:41] <@roc> there are also security and privacy issues. You have to trust Opera and their server farm completely
# [02:41] <@khuey> and then when they get bought by facebook ...
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# [02:42] <cpearce> Why aren't I seeing BrowserElementParent debug logging since I updated my tree? Has BrowserElementParent been removed or something?
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# [03:07] <hub> I did a clobber, and js does not build :-)
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# [03:10] <hub> ok, I nuked the build dir instead
# [03:10] <hub> I wonder why I bothered with clobber
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# [03:11] <dholbert> hub, that's what most people mean by clobber
# [03:11] <dholbert> (nuking objdir)
# [03:12] <hub> instead of "make clobber"
# [03:12] <dholbert> yup
# [03:12] <hub> yeah I should stop taking it literally
# [03:12] <dholbert> I'm not sure what that does :)
# [03:12] <dholbert> it sounds like it doesn't do what it should, likely because it's infrequently-used
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# [03:17] <@khuey> I really should remove make clobber
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# [03:18] <ekr> or make it do rm -rf /
# [03:18] <hub> no '/'
# [03:18] <ekr> I mean rm -rf obj...
# [03:18] <hub> yeah
# [03:19] <hub> :-)
# [03:19] <@khuey> nah, that's scary
# [03:19] <@khuey> definitely want people to be responsible for their own rm -rf ing
# [03:19] <@khuey> somebody will set MOZ_OBJDIR=/ and then try to kill me
# [03:20] <@dolske> njn: Apple's policy makes sence when you think about it in terms of protecting their business model. They don't want you downloading some kind of runtime environment that cuts them out of the app store gravytrain.
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# [03:22] <ekr> dolske: not just that, they also want to be able to make some kind of guarantee about the security of the software you buy in the app store
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# [03:22] <@dolske> it's a good line, but isn't really true
# [03:23] <ekr> dolske: why do you say that?
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# [03:24] <@dolske> they could allow safe runtimes, or require rules whereby 3rd parties would need to block unsafe apps
# [03:24] <ekr> a safe runtime is a lot harder than it sounds.
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# [03:24] <@dolske> in addition to little things like apps that slip through which steal credentials, slurp down your address book, etc etc
# [03:24] <ekr> sure, but the point is that app behavior is largely static once approved.
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# [03:25] <ekr> I'm not saying it's perfect, but compare to android.
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# [03:26] <njn> dolske: well, sure. Lots of unpleasant behaviour can be good for business.
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# [03:28] <@dolske> that's what my arms dealer always says!
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# [03:32] <JonathanS> ekr Security through obscurity
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# [03:32] <ekr> JonathanS: no, I don't agree with that.
# [03:32] <ekr> It's just a much more locked down environment
# [03:32] <JonathanS> walled gardens?
# [03:32] <ekr> sure, that's a fair description of the iphone
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# [03:33] <JonathanS> It already lead a false sense of security
# [03:33] <ekr> Why do you say "false"?
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# [03:34] <JonathanS> ekr, many Mac users believe "Mac NEVER get viruses", so they never buy any kind of antivirus programs.
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# [03:34] <ekr> (1) I'm talking about iPhone, not Mac. (2) I'm not really aware of any empirical evidence that antivirus programs do much
# [03:35] * @khuey uses Windows without antivirus software :-P
# [03:35] <ekr> And there's plenty of evidence that they have a really high false negative rate
# [03:35] <ekr> khuey: I think that may need to be a meme
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# [03:36] <jcranmer> apple has convinced its users that it is built out of gold
# [03:36] <JonathanS> ekr, iPhone does have a various kind of security flaws like how Pwn2Owns contest where Miller able to get access of the address book without jailbreak it.
# [03:36] <jcranmer> when it's really built out of pyrite
# [03:36] <ekr> I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm not claiming that the iPhone has never had any security flaws, but the state of malware on iPhone seems to be significantly better than that on android
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# [03:39] <ekr> see, for instance: http://www.scribd.com/doc/62909369/McAfee-Threats-Report-Q2-2011
# [03:40] <JonathanS> " Security researchers Charlie Miller and Dion Blazakis were able to gain access to the iPhone's address book through a vulnerability in Mobile Safari by visiting their exploit ridden webpage"
# [03:41] <tbsaunde> so, what are the reasonable values for EXPORT_LIBRARY ?
# [03:41] <ekr> yes, I'm aware of this vulnerability. As I said, it's not that there haven't been any issues with iOS. To suggest otherwise would be silly. What I said was that the situation on iOS appears to be *better* than that on android, as the citation I linked to above indicaes
# [03:41] <hub> ekr: people forget the HTML baseds jailbreaking
# [03:41] <ekr> hub: I certainly haven't.
# [03:41] <hub> which by itself just wipe the illusion of security
# [03:42] <hub> like shipping Flash in the OS and never updating it
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# [03:42] <hub> (MacOS 10.6, I'm looking at you)
# [03:42] <ekr> For what must be the 4th time, I'm referring to iOS rather than MacOS
# [03:42] <ekr> since the topic at hand is the app store.
# [03:42] <JonathanS> hub, I love how JS able to bypass security.
# [03:43] <hub> the concept that the Mac App Store require entitlements to do stuff is just mind boggling
# [03:43] <hub> because entitlement is no reviewing what is being done
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# [03:43] <JonathanS> those entilements are temporary?
# [03:44] <hub> JonathanS: I don't know exactly what the policy is
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# [03:46] <mattwoodrow> blassey: ping
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# [03:46] <JonathanS> hub, in http://lacquer.fi/pauli/blog/2011/11/why-the-mac-app-sandbox-makes-me-sad/, oh my in entitlement list
# [03:46] <hub> JonathanS: but it is my understanding that lot of the hardware access and others will require entitlements
# [03:47] <hub> JonathanS: yeah. I also had a presentation at $PREVIOUS_JOB on it
# [03:47] <ekr> why do you think this is bad?
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# [03:48] <ekr> the idea of having apps come with built-in permissions is one of the things security people have wanted for years.
# [03:48] <hub> yeah but having apps vendor request permission to an opaque review "board" isn't
# [03:48] <ekr> sure, that's fair.
# [03:48] <hub> it is just snake oil
# [03:48] <ekr> I agree that that sucks.
# [03:48] <ekr> No, I don't agree with that
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# [03:49] <hub> because it just does not review the actual usage
# [03:49] <JonathanS> in MAS, are they going to show permission list before install/upgrade?
# [03:49] <hub> JonathanS: no
# [03:49] <ekr> the problem is that if you don't do that, people just ask for a whole pile of entitlements. See Felt's work on android permissions, for instance.
# [03:49] <hub> ekr: yeah there is that
# [03:49] <devd> hub: you are making arguments based on what is theoretically nice and good, what are good security principles etc
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# [03:49] <devd> while ekr is talking about "look what is happening"
# [03:49] <devd> two different things
# [03:49] <JonathanS> hub, how users know which permissions of this X apps have?
# [03:49] <ekr> obviously, I'm not thrilled that apple is going to be like the ultimate arbiter of everything.
# [03:49] <devd> and I think ekr is right right now
# [03:49] <devd> but on the other hand
# [03:50] <devd> if you are right, then there could be a day
# [03:50] <ekr> JonathanS: I think that it's just like iPhone. Apple decides it's cool so it's cool.
# [03:50] <devd> maybe because of popularity of iphone
# [03:50] <devd> that malware does become a problem
# [03:50] <JonathanS> ekr, it is not cool for me.
# [03:50] <ekr> Sure, I can understand that. I'm just describing the model that apple has in mind.
# [03:50] <devd> but ekr's claims that 'there is not much problem right now on Apple's systems' are right
# [03:50] <devd> I don't see why folks find it so shocking
# [03:51] <ekr> I suspect that you can in fact interrogate the app, but it won't be up front like it is with android.
# [03:51] <ekr> (which, as Felt's research has shown, is a disaster)
# [03:51] <JonathanS> it is like you gave $1.00 to the lochness monster then he came back to want $3.50 (tree fiddy)
# [03:51] <hub> Entitlement.plist has the list
# [03:51] <RyanVM> lol, gerv's facebook email post got cited on cnn.com
# [03:51] <@khuey> damn you bent
# [03:51] <ekr> URL?
# [03:51] <devd> it was on pcmag a while back
# [03:52] <devd> then it went to cnn
# [03:52] <@khuey> http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/25/tech/social-media/facebook-email-switch/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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# [03:52] <@khuey> cnn is reposting mashable these days
# [03:52] <@khuey> isn't that cute
# [03:53] <ekr> awesome
# [03:53] <ekr> please email me at 12345678910@facebook.com
# [03:53] <JonathanS> khuey, oh, I noticed that earlier in http://lifehacker.com/5921095/facebook-just-changed-your-email-without-permission-heres-how-to-get-it-back
# [03:53] <hub> ekr: that's my phone number
# [03:54] <ekr> hub: oh, sorry about that.
# [03:54] <hub> :-)
# [03:54] <JonathanS> hub, your common password is 12345?
# [03:54] <ekr> you can have it back for …. one million dollars
# [03:54] <ekr> "that's the combination an idiot would have on his luggage"
# [03:54] <JonathanS> ekr, :P
# [03:55] <hub> yep :-)
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# [03:55] <hub> it is also my bank card pin
# [03:56] <JonathanS> http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/07/12107855-a-linkedin-leak-lesson-top-30-dumb-passwords-people-still-use LOLWUT? it contain 12345
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# [03:57] <ekr> Not sure what to make of the fact that job beats jesus
# [03:57] <ekr> otoh, god beats job
# [03:57] <JonathanS> No Cash. No Hope. No Job.
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# [03:58] <JonathanS> hub, if linkedin supposed to be professional business social networking site, it still have dumb users.
# [03:59] <ekr> Are you kidding, that's probably *why it has dumb users
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# [03:59] <JonathanS> ekr, a lot of times, why I am still watching Spaceballs.
# [04:00] <hub> JonathanS: I closed my account :-)
# [04:00] <hub> and yes I was joking about it being my password
# [04:00] <hub> I'm not that dumb
# [04:01] <JonathanS> hub, one business man wants me to have accounts on that site.
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# [04:02] <hub> http://www.weknowwhatyouredoing.com/ <- like that?
# [04:02] <hub> :-)
# [04:03] <JonathanS> lol @ Florida on right
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# [04:14] <JonathanS> is it weird for few Mozilla employee has reddit accounts?
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# [04:21] <@bz> most of us can get our kicks like that via irc and bugzilla
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# [04:23] <@khuey> bent is lucky he's nine time zones away
# [04:23] <@khuey> this code makes me want to strangle him
# [04:24] <jcranmer> we
# [04:24] <jcranmer> 're working on an app that lets you strangle people over the internet
# [04:24] <ewong> o_O
# [04:24] <ewong> jcranmer: The Force?
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# [04:25] <heycam> you mean, we're working on a Web API that we're bringing to the W3C for standardised strangulation device access
# [04:25] <jcranmer> no, the Schwarz, obviously
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# [04:26] <@khuey> navigator.mozStrangle(person, callbackWhenComplete, optionsDictionary);
# [04:26] <@roc> heycam!
# [04:26] <heycam> hello roc
# [04:27] <JonathanS> jcranmer, did you go over of the Darth Helmet?
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# [04:27] <ewong> khuey: you don't want a callback.. they police'll trace it to you.. .
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# [04:29] <@khuey> ewong: nah, just pass { untraceable: true } in for the options
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# [04:29] <JonathanS> khuey, they can trace it by stack?
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# [04:31] <darktrojan> { timing: "surprise!" }
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# [04:38] <njn> bz, khuey: I'm working on per-tab memory reporters
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# [04:38] <njn> following https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687724#c11
# [04:39] <njn> bz, khuey: I wrote "if it's an instance of NSPIDOMWindow then it's an nsGlobalWindow, and I can report it under the appropriate "window-objects" entry in about:memory." I'm not sure how to get from NSPIDOMWindow to nsGlobalWindow...
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# [04:39] <njn> another QI, maybe?
# [04:40] <@khuey> static_cast
# [04:40] <njn> khuey: k, thx
# [04:41] <njn> khuey: can I static_cast a |nsCOMPtr<NSPIDOMWindow>| to a |nsGlobalWindow*| ?
# [04:41] <@khuey> no
# [04:41] <@khuey> nsCOMPtr<nsPIDOMWindow> piwindow;
# [04:41] <@khuey> nsGlobalWindow* window = static_cast<nsGlobalWindow*>(piwindow.get());
# [04:41] <njn> gotcha
# [04:42] * njn will be shocked if this code actually works
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# [04:43] <@khuey> oh, hey, bent left me comments
# [04:43] <@khuey> they're wrong
# [04:43] <@khuey> but at least he tried
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# [04:45] <njn> khuey: "error: invalid static_cast from type ‘NSPIDOMWindow*’ to type ‘nsGlobalWindow*'"
# [04:45] <@bz> khuey: I get the impression you're not that happy with bent recently.. ;)
# [04:46] <@bz> njn: are both types visible?
# [04:46] * padenot is now known as padenot|away
# [04:46] <njn> bz: I've #included the header files...
# [04:46] <@bz> njn: that cast should totally work....
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# [04:46] <@khuey> bz: he's a good outlet for my frustration
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# [04:46] <@bz> njn: hrm
# [04:46] <@khuey> bz: he landed a 0.5 MB diff the other week
# [04:47] <@khuey> bz: and his code barely works ;-)
# [04:47] * @bz wonders why the compiler has "NS" there in caps... kinda weird
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# [04:47] <@bz> or maybe it's just my IRC client not handling non-ASCII well
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# [04:47] <@khuey> because njn is typing it wrong
# [04:47] <@khuey> is my guess
# [04:47] <@bz> oh
# [04:47] <@bz> nsPIDOMWindow is the type
# [04:48] <njn> ah
# [04:48] * @bz sees that it's NS everywhere above.. not sure whether it matters
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# [04:48] <njn> bz: it does matter :)
# [04:48] <@bz> ok. ;)
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# [04:49] <njn> bz: other critiques of that pastebin'd code are welcome, I'm just making this up as I go along
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# [04:50] <devd> can I compile firefox for android and run it on my desktop ?
# [04:51] <@khuey> without an emulator? no
# [04:51] <@khuey> with an emulator? maybe, I don't know
# [04:51] <devd> ok .. why not without an emulator ?
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# [04:52] <devd> is it that no one has done that because no one wants to
# [04:52] <@khuey> does your desktop have an ARM CPU?
# [04:52] <devd> or just impossible to do because <reason>
# [04:52] <devd> compile ..
# [04:52] <@khuey> because that would be reason #1
# [04:52] <devd> not copy paste and run
# [04:52] <devd> *err copy executable and run
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# [04:52] <@khuey> devd: android firefox uses a completely native UI
# [04:53] <devd> so by emulator, you mean Android emulator
# [04:53] <@khuey> yes
# [04:53] <devd> an ARM emulator isn't enough
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# [04:54] <devd> hmm ok ..
# [04:54] <devd> I have an old 1.3Ghz Intel Atom notebook, which is slower than the newer phones
# [04:54] <devd> it would be nice to run Firefox for android on it
# [04:54] <devd> :)
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# [05:00] <@khuey> huzzah
# [05:00] <@khuey> it's alive
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# [05:04] <@bz> khuey: got a sec?
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# [05:16] <njn> how do I print an nsCString again?
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# [05:17] <@dolske> dear lazy channel... can an iframe be made to scale the content it's showing? like if I want it to load cnn.com scaled to 10% of its size?
# [05:17] <@dolske> transform (scale) maybe?
# [05:18] <njn> oh, just get()
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# [05:21] <@roc> dolske: yes, CSS transforms is the only way to do this
# [05:21] <@roc> well, SVG transforms too but that amounts to the same thing
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# [05:22] <@dolske> *cackle*
# [05:22] <@dolske> it works!
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# [05:48] <@khuey> I wish we had someone whose job was to write tests for specs
# [05:49] <@khuey> or a team of someones
# [05:49] <@khuey> but I'd settle for one
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# [05:50] <Callek> khuey: just wait till you get surprised by your new set of business cards when they arrive and you see your title
# [05:51] <@khuey> heh
# [05:51] <@bz> khuey: dbaron and I and aryeh and ms2ger don't count?
# [05:51] <Callek> "Kyle Huey, test writer extraordinaire. `if the test is wrong, then the spec is wrong.`"
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# [05:52] <@khuey> bz: can I get one of you to write a comprehensive test suite for IDB?
# [05:52] * jdm|f00ding is now known as jdm
# [05:53] <@khuey> and get it through the w3c process?
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# [05:56] <@bz> khuey: mmm
# [05:57] <@khuey> ;-)
# [05:57] <@bz> khuey: how is the priority of that wrt other things on my plate?
# [05:57] * @bz wishes he had more time....
# [05:57] <@khuey> we all do
# [05:57] <@bz> yeah
# [05:57] <@khuey> bz: that's the problem, everyone has more important things to do
# [05:57] <Unfocused> i too would like to acquire more time
# [05:57] <@khuey> doesn't time go backwards down there?
# [05:58] <njn> khuey: you seen gszorc's blog post about the build system?
# [05:58] <@khuey> or is that the water in the toilet bowl?
# [05:58] <@khuey> I always get those confused
# [05:58] <Unfocused> khuey: neither
# [05:58] <@khuey> :-P
# [05:58] <@khuey> njn: yes
# [05:58] <devd> khuey: one of the things I have been thinking of
# [05:58] <Unfocused> though i'm pretty sure the govt is going backwards at the moment... does that count?
# [05:58] <@khuey> njn: I'm currently debating which day I can afford to spend reading it
# [05:58] <@khuey> njn: because it's going to take a full day
# [05:58] <devd> khuey: is making it a class project
# [05:58] <njn> khuey: ok
# [05:58] <devd> khuey: tell students, write comprehensive test suite for <spec x>
# [05:59] <devd> khuey: it seems like it is a fantastic way to test their knowledge
# [05:59] <devd> khuey: and teach them how hard these things are
# [05:59] <devd> for example, writing a test suite for CSP might be a great way to teach web application security
# [06:00] <njn> khuey: imagine how long it took him to *write* it
# [06:00] * Unfocused wonders what the chances of that going through the w3c process are
# [06:00] <devd> but it would be nice if every few weeks yo//a mozdev can review the tests
# [06:00] <@khuey> http://people.mozilla.org/~khuey/damnyoubent.png
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# [06:01] <@khuey> njn: a long time
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# [06:03] <devd> http://people.mozilla.org/~khuey/damnyoubent.png
# [06:04] <devd> err..copy/paste #fail
# [06:04] <jdm> maybe we could talk to a professor teaching a software testing class
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# [06:04] <jdm> get students to write thorough test suites for credit
# [06:05] <JonathanS> jdm, which college would do it?
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# [06:05] <jdm> JonathanS: the best one
# [06:05] <jdm> make them fight for the right
# [06:05] <@khuey> the school of hard knocks
# [06:05] <devd> Berkeley might be interested in doing it for web app sec
# [06:05] <aja> Seneca?
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# [06:15] <devd> bz: re the addition of 1 more arg to nsIContentPolicy; do you know why this JS call http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/base/content/browser.js#3125 would throw an error ?
# [06:16] <devd> bz: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=12988720&tree=Try#error65
# [06:18] <@bz> devd: looking
# [06:18] <@bz> ah
# [06:18] <@bz> that call is _calling_ content policy, not implementing it
# [06:19] <@bz> so it would throw
# [06:19] <@bz> if we want to allow those, we should make the new argument optional
# [06:19] <devd> bz: aah .. which is not something code outside of M-C can do, right?
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# [06:19] <@bz> no, code outside m-c can do it
# [06:19] <@bz> but is incredibly unlikely to
# [06:20] <devd> what do you suggest? Fixing browser.js or making arg optional ?
# [06:20] <njn> khuey: I've read about 2/3 of gszorc's post. He (a) sounds like he understands make deeply, and (b) has done a lot of work
# [06:20] <@bz> both
# [06:20] <devd> heh
# [06:20] <@bz> hmm
# [06:20] <devd> ok
# [06:20] <@bz> flashblock does in fact make such calls
# [06:20] <devd> uggh .. why does flashblock make such calls ?
# [06:20] <@bz> and noscript
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# [06:21] <@bz> just make the arg optional. ;)
# [06:21] <@bz> (and fix browser.js as desired)
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# [06:21] <devd> heh .. ok
# [06:21] <devd> why are they calling it directly though ?
# [06:21] <@bz> noscript wants to test whether a load is blocked by content policy
# [06:21] <devd> weird
# [06:21] <devd> why ?
# [06:21] <@bz> so as not to give the option of unblocking stuff that it itself is not blocking
# [06:22] <@bz> (on the assumption that something _else_ is blocking them)
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# [06:22] <@bz> afaict from a brief skim
# [06:22] <devd> ohh
# [06:22] <devd> hmm ok
# [06:22] <@khuey> njn: the parts that I read are what we've wanted to do for years
# [06:22] <@khuey> particularly the derecursifying bit
# [06:22] * @bz digs more
# [06:23] <njn> khuey: derecursifying is a no-brainer, it's just a question of the practicality of the approach
# [06:23] <devd> gaah.. I wish I had a desktop machine at the office to ssh into
# [06:23] <devd> anyhow, thanks bz
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# [06:23] <@bz> no problem
# [06:23] <@bz> sorry I didn't think of addons being willing to do this...
# [06:23] <@khuey> well, it's a ton of work
# [06:23] <@khuey> and you don't find out how the perf numbers look until you're done
# [06:23] <@bz> vertical-tabbar does this too
# [06:24] <@bz> or some such
# [06:24] <@bz> it's doing the same thing as browser.js, in fact
# [06:24] <@bz> for its version of the tabbar
# [06:24] <@bz> so yeah
# [06:24] <devd> makes sense
# [06:25] <devd> irnoically, I just mxr'ed it and contentsecuritypolicy.js also does this
# [06:25] <devd> *ironically
# [06:25] <devd> bz: what are you using to search through addon code?
# [06:25] <@bz> https://mxr.mozilla.org/addons/
# [06:26] <@bz> kinda old snapshot from AMO
# [06:26] <@bz> so doesn't have newer stuff
# [06:26] <@bz> and needs LDAP login
# [06:26] <@bz> but within those constraints....
# [06:26] * @bz wishes we could get a newer snapshot
# [06:26] <devd> this is great!
# [06:26] <devd> well .. I spoke too soon
# [06:26] <@bz> won't let you log in?
# [06:27] <devd> nvm .. a mistake in what I was searching for
# [06:27] <devd> what is your search term? Just curious ...
# [06:27] <@bz> I searched for content-policy
# [06:27] <njn> khuey: wow, the first cut at the compartment->nsGlobalWindow code is actually working
# [06:27] <@bz> which is part of the service contract...
# [06:27] <@bz> (well, searched on .shouldLoad first, but then realized the other is better)
# [06:28] <njn> khuey: 133,800 B (00.18%) -- compartment(http://valgrind.org/ ^ explicit/window-objects/top(http://valgrind.org/, id=12)
# [06:28] <njn> khuey: the "^" is obviously temporary
# [06:29] <@khuey> cool
# [06:29] <devd> I was doing getService(Ci.nsIContentPolicy) which didn't return much
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# [06:30] <jdm> njn: woo!
# [06:30] <njn> jdm, khuey: now I have to undo the gross hacks, like commenting out a key assertion
# [06:31] <@khuey> njn: is jet actually going to work on 760331?
# [06:31] <njn> khuey: I think we assigned that one to him with the idea that he'd find someone to work on it
# [06:31] <@khuey> ah
# [06:31] <@khuey> ok
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# [06:59] <philor> bz: orange
# [06:59] <philor> on inbound, since you're on several
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# [07:04] <njn> khuey|away, jdm: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1678782 -- note that "js" is beneath "window(...)"
# [07:04] <jdm> niiice
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# [07:12] * njn is guessing all the people who know about JS GC assertions have gone home
# [07:12] <darktrojan> that doesn't usually stop them
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# [07:13] <@bz_sleep> philor: looking
# [07:14] <@bz_sleep> philor: gah
# [07:14] <@bz_sleep> philor: I bet there's no webgl there....
# [07:15] <@bz_sleep> philor: looking
# [07:15] <@bz_sleep> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/canvas/test/crossorigin/test_video_crossorigin.html?force=1#155
# [07:15] <@bz_sleep> yeah, silly
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# [07:18] <@bz_sleep> philor: checking fix
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# [07:19] <@bz_sleep> fix pushed
# [07:20] <@ehsan> firebot: uuid
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# [07:53] <@roc> the dev.platform discussion on signed vs unsigned makes me super glad that integer overflow will be a fatal error in Rust
# [07:54] <@bz_sleep> yeah
# [07:54] <@bz_sleep> The C behavior for signed types is just sadfaces
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# [07:56] <Unfocused> "i'm glad javascript solved the numerical type issues in C" -no one, ever
# [07:57] <@bz_sleep> well, that's because JavaScript's numerical type story involves IEEE floats
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# [07:57] <@bz_sleep> which are, basically, Batshit Insane
# [07:57] <@bz_sleep> like most floats
# [07:57] <@roc> IEEE floats aren't that bad
# [07:57] <@bz_sleep> What, you want == to work? haha!
# [07:57] <@bz_sleep> well
# [07:57] <@bz_sleep> they are if you're not used to them
# [07:57] <@roc> at least they're reasonably well defined
# [07:57] <@bz_sleep> well, yes
# [07:58] <@bz_sleep> let's just say the last time I saw someone trying to do a taylor series with floats...
# [07:58] <@bz_sleep> they got it totally wrong
# [07:58] <@bz_sleep> made the rookie mistake of doing it the way they would on paper instead of backwards
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# [07:58] <@bz_sleep> but yes, being well-defined is a key property... ;)
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# [08:30] <markh> anyone know how to get an nsIWebProgress or nsIDocShell for an iframe?
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# [08:41] <njn> roc: how does Rust check integer overflow? ain't that expensive?
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# [08:42] <njn> looks like ehsan turned Moth orange
# [08:42] * njn wants to land
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# [09:10] <jesup> njn: cycle-counting is for wimps. :-) Seriously, the x86 instruction set has a "JO" (Jump if Overflow) instruction, so the cost would be a ton of not-taken branches. The branch predictor would certainly predict them all correctly.
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# [09:40] <Jesse> Jesse-Ruderman-MBP13:mozilla-central jruderman$ make -f client.mk
# [09:40] <Jesse> client.mk:106: *** Fix above errors before continuing.. Stop.
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# [09:42] <Jesse> oh, "someone" deleted my mozconfig
# [09:43] <Unfocused> what devious evil person would do such a thing?
# [09:44] <Jesse> i did an "hg purge --all" after hitting Ctrl+C in the middle of something
# [09:44] <Jesse> i wonder what happened to the error message
# [09:44] <Jesse> about not having a mozconfig
# [09:44] <JonathanS> Jesse, so you killed your own mozconfig
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# [10:00] <@smaug> hmm, if Mozilla had an office in Finland, it would be easy to find experienced employees
# [10:01] <stuart> but then we'd have an office in finland
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# [10:11] <Yoric> Not having reliable access to TryServer is kind of pissing me off.
# [10:11] <Yoric> That and segfaulting from JavaScript.
# [10:11] <Yoric> (but that one is my fault)
# [10:12] <glazou> bonjour
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# [10:28] <edmorley> tbpl y u so slow :-(
# [10:29] <NeilAway> devd: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/suite/browser/tabbrowser.xml#1163
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# [10:39] <NeilAway> edmorley: have you visited http://hg.mozilla.org/try/ recently?
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# [10:39] <edmorley> NeilAway: bug 767657 I presume? :-)
# [10:40] <edmorley> I'll add it to the tree status
# [10:40] <Ms2ger> Morning, edmorley
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# [10:40] <edmorley> Good morning Ms2ger :-)
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# [10:56] <Yoric> edmorley: THanks for the update on bug 767657.
# [10:56] <Yoric> s/THanks/Thanks/
# [10:57] <edmorley> np :-)
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# [11:06] <Ms2ger> khuey|away, that's what Opera is for
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# [11:10] <Ms2ger> khuey|away, but yes, we should totally hire more people to write tests... I've got my eye on someone :)
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# [11:15] <NeilAway> edmorley: yeah, it was just a silly 1-character typo :")
# [11:18] <edmorley> NeilAway: ah! typical :-)
# [11:20] <NeilAway> edmorley: I had to change a bunch of lines in the vicinity, and accidentally changed that line by mistake :s
# [11:20] <sawrubh> The size of my .hg directory is 700mb. Is that normal or do I need to do some cleaning in there periodically ?
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# [11:20] <edmorley> sawrubh: check strip-backup maybe?
# [11:20] <edmorley> sawrubh: though I think mine is not far off that
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# [11:21] <edmorley> sawrubh: newer versions of mercurial have a more efficient storage format iirc; you could update, scrap the clone and then also use http://jlebar.com/2011/5/20/Faster_and_smaller_clones_of_branches.html to save diskspace on any other related trees you might have alongside (eg inbound)
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# [11:22] <edmorley> njn: reported mq push/pop speedups on a fresher tree a while bacl
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# [11:22] <edmorley> back
# [11:23] <edmorley> s/njn:/njn/
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# [11:26] <Ms2ger> njn, so how do I pronounce your nickname? :)
# [11:27] <ewong> engine ;)
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# [11:32] <njn> Ms2ger: n - j - n :)
# [11:32] <njn> Ms2ger: it's just my initials
# [11:32] <jfkthame> Ms2ger: and how should we pronounce yours? :)
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# [11:33] <Ms2ger> Any way you like :)
# [11:33] <darktrojan> those are his initials too
# [11:33] <njn> edmorley, sawrubh: http://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2012/01/17/speeding-up-mercurial/
# [11:34] <dRdR> smaug roc ping
# [11:34] <@smaug> dRdR: pong
# [11:34] * @smaug wonders in which time zone dRdR lives
# [11:34] <dRdR> smaug: hey, want to talk with roc about your suggestions
# [11:34] <njn> jfkthame: in my head I usually say "message-two-er"
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# [11:34] <dRdR> smaug: I'm in barcelona
# [11:34] <dRdR> right now at least
# [11:34] <@roc> what suggestion?
# [11:35] <dRdR> roc: so smaug wants to write separate classes for use with off-main-thread touch event handling
# [11:35] <@smaug> I suggested using non-nsEvent related structs
# [11:35] <dRdR> right, and roc you said that you wanted to eventually port this over to desktop so I'm not sure how much doing this would impede that
# [11:35] <@smaug> because the patch ended up using 1 of the 14 member variables of the existing stuff
# [11:35] <ewong> njn not Ms. tooger?
# [11:36] <@smaug> and also because as of now nsEvent has stuff which expects it to be used in main thread only
# [11:36] <njn> ewong: sometimes that too :)
# [11:36] <ewong> ;P
# [11:37] <gwagner> njn: ping
# [11:37] <@smaug> if the new stuff ends up being useful for nsEvents too, nsEvent classes could inherit the non-main-thread-only stuff
# [11:37] <@roc> smaug: that's OK
# [11:38] <@roc> ok
# [11:38] <njn> gwagner: pong
# [11:38] <gwagner> njn: have you followed bug 765435?
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# [11:39] <gwagner> njn: I want to change the heap growth factors for the JS heap. that's a big win for heavy allocation sites
# [11:39] <dRdR> roc: so you want to do separate classes now too?
# [11:39] <njn> gwagner: yes
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# [11:39] <dRdR> :(
# [11:40] <gwagner> njn: it might also help regular users and reduce fragmentation
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# [11:40] <njn> gwagner: based on prior experience, I have great faith in your ability to tweak the GC heuristics for the better
# [11:40] <dRdR> roc: so you want to do separate classes now too?
# [11:40] <@roc> I'm OK with it
# [11:41] <gwagner> heh well I think that patch should be a win :)
# [11:41] <dRdR> roc: ok then, thanks
# [11:41] <njn> yep
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# [11:43] <@smaug> dRdR: sorry :)
# [11:43] <dRdR> smaug: it's fine, I'm not opposed to it, I just didn't know what roc's plans were for the future
# [11:43] <njn> gwagner: I gotta run
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# [11:43] <TheOne> every time I update the aurora build windows 7 creates a new icon instead of using the already pinned one. who knows about the windows 7 taskbar integration?
# [11:44] <@roc> jmathies
# [11:44] <@roc> and Brian Bondy
# [11:45] <@smaug> TheOne: please file a bug
# [11:45] <TheOne> roc: thx. do you also know in which component such bugs fit?
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# [11:45] <@smaug> cc :jimm, :bbondy and :ehsan
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# [11:46] <TheOne> smaug: could you tell me the component to file in, please?
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# [11:46] <@smaug> TheOne: try Core: Widget-Win32
# [11:47] <@smaug> if you cc the right persons, they'll change the component if needed
# [11:48] <TheOne> smaug: thank you
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# [11:54] <Ms2ger> smontagu, did you see https://twitter.com/fantasai/status/217501010791383042 ? :)
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# [11:56] * AryehGregor also cares, kind of
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# [11:58] <@roc> I love these Silicon Valley startups with badges "trusted since 2007"
# [11:59] <ebassi> "accidents free since [] days"
# [11:59] <Yoric> :)
# [12:00] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, that makes two, then :)
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# [12:01] <Callek> "trusted since July 1'st 2012" -- "Page fetched June 26'th 2012"
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# [12:02] <Callek> ..."We expect our founder will finally trust our company next week"
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# [12:04] <sawrubh> I'm getting this error when trying to build Servo, which I cloned from the git repo : http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1679029
# [12:04] <sawrubh> This comes in the |make check && make| step.
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# [12:04] <Ms2ger> Heh, git
# [12:05] <sawrubh> I have installed the dependencies mentioned there.
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# [12:06] <sawrubh> (atleast that's what I feel)
# [12:06] <@smaug> tryserver, could you please be a bit faster
# [12:06] <Yoric> smaug: Don't you mean "could you please work a bit"?
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# [12:07] <@smaug> well, I did manage to upload a patch to try
# [12:07] <@smaug> so it does work a bit
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# [12:07] <sawrubh> smaug: there are only 255 pending jobs ;), what more do you want from it :P
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# [12:08] <Callek> yea thats not much for try
# [12:08] <Callek> :-)
# [12:09] <sawrubh> Callek: how many machines normally are employed for the try ?
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# [12:12] <Callek> sawrubh: I don't have that data readily available atm, but see: http://oduinn.com/blog/2012/06/10/infrastructure-load-for-may-2012/
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# [12:13] <Callek> sawrubh: see-also http://atlee.ca/blog/2012/01/13/what-happens-when-you-push-2012-edition/
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# [12:13] <Callek> smaug: see-also http://atlee.ca/blog/2011/12/09/hg-performance/
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# [12:16] <sawrubh> Callek: who is Chris Atlee on irc ? with mozillian search down, can't find him.
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# [12:16] <Callek> sawrubh: cat-lee (minus the dash)
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# [12:17] <jlebar> sfink: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687724#c15
# [12:17] <Callek> sawrubh: (he is very very busy with things lately, and a manager, so I wouldn't bother him unless you need to, fwiw)
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# [12:18] <sawrubh> Callek: I won't I promise :)
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# [12:24] <gaston> gps: insane blog post about build-system, thanks!
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# [12:36] <edmorley> yeah gps++
# [12:36] <edmorley> :-)
# [12:36] <_AtilA_> Where?
# [12:36] <gaston> http://gregoryszorc.com/blog/2012/06/25/improving-mozilla's-build-system/
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# [12:53] <sawrubh> I'll start with this blog post now and maybe finish up my tomorrow :P . It's a tad small
# [12:53] <sawrubh> s/my/by
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# [13:01] <Ms2ger> "My response is going to be "why do you hate developers?" Seriously, that will be my question."
# [13:01] <Ms2ger> gps, I believe you ;)
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# [13:04] <AryehGregor> So who do we need to petition to get a team of developers assigned to do gps' bidding and fix the build system?
# [13:04] * AryehGregor cries at 45-second no-op builds
# [13:05] <@roc> that is a large blog post
# [13:05] <Callek> AryehGregor: we used to have 30 minute no-op builds on windows
# [13:05] <Callek> :-)
# [13:05] <@roc> why would you ever do a no-op build?
# [13:05] <Callek> so don't cry as long
# [13:05] <AryehGregor> Yes, it is, but a worthwhile one.
# [13:05] <AryehGregor> You wouldn't, but it implies that even the most trivial change to anything takes at least that long.
# [13:06] <@roc> it doesn't, because you know to run "pymake -C objdir/layout && pymake -C objdir/toolkit/library"
# [13:06] <@roc> don't mind me, I'm trolling. I'm all for a better build system.
# [13:06] <Unfocused> "you" being the developers in the know
# [13:06] <Callek> roc: "you" are a unique breed of person to know the magic incantations to do those magic shortcuts ;-)
# [13:07] <AryehGregor> Does that actually work reliably for any old file that gets modified, or will it cause things to mysteriously break if you haven't memorized all the build dependencies?
# [13:07] <Callek> and I am even a comm-* build system Peer, and I still get boggled when I try to do that magic, since I never remember the right combinations
# [13:07] <@roc> it only works for layout and if you haven't modified any header files that are included by other modules
# [13:07] <AryehGregor> So would "pymake -C editor/" work if I make an editor change, do you think?
# [13:08] <@roc> yes I think it would
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# [13:08] <@roc> you have to remake in toolkit/library though
# [13:08] <@roc> to rebuild xul.dll
# [13:08] <Callek> AryehGregor: thats just it, it varies based on *exactly* what you are touching, and where it is linked
# [13:08] <Callek> and all bets are off if you touch a header
# [13:08] <AryehGregor> Well, lots of editor headers aren't used outside of editor. I think.
# [13:08] <Callek> and *some* source files are linked in multiple places even
# [13:09] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, (also, you'd use make instead of pymake if you're not on windows)
# [13:09] <Callek> (or at least used to be)
# [13:09] <AryehGregor> Oh, good to know.
# [13:09] <AryehGregor> (re Ms2ger)
# [13:09] <@roc> if gps is that much into this problem, he should just work on it full time
# [13:09] <Ms2ger> roc, are you his manager? ;)
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# [13:09] <@roc> I'm sure his manager wouldn't mind
# [13:10] <AryehGregor> If his manager objects, I expect we can get together a decent-sized mob of developers with torches and pitchforks to persuade him otherwise.
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# [13:14] <darktrojan> he should just file it and mark it [good first bug]
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# [13:14] <@roc> oh yes
# [13:15] <edmorley> darktrojan++
# [13:15] <darktrojan> :)
# [13:15] <Ms2ger> [mentor=khuey]
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# [13:17] * sawrubh will now suspect every good first bugs
# [13:17] <sawrubh> edmorley: what is the version of hg being used by hg.m.o ?
# [13:18] <darktrojan> actually some bits could be chipped off by people of the right mindset (aspergers, mainly)
# [13:18] <darktrojan> such as http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=_tests%2Ftesting%2Fmochitest%2F&find=&findi=&;filter=^[^\0]*%24&hitlimit=&tree=mozilla-central
# [13:18] <edmorley> sawrubh: 2.0.x iirc according to bug 741353
# [13:19] <edmorley> s/iirc//
# [13:20] <darktrojan> woah, that mxr page actually sorted the top level directories
# [13:20] * darktrojan is suspicious
# [13:20] <sawrubh> Ms2ger: did you check out Clue(1985) ? How is it ? It was being highly praised yesterday
# [13:21] <Ms2ger> I didn't
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# [13:23] * sawrubh is fed up of Mid-air collisions and having to throw away his changes
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# [13:24] <sawrubh> edmorley: did you also get a mid-air collision alert or is it just one way :P
# [13:24] <edmorley> sawrubh: only the second (and later) people get it
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# [13:24] <edmorley> my changes were already made
# [13:24] <sawrubh> heh
# [13:25] <edmorley> :-)
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# [13:31] <AryehGregor> So it seems like no one agrees on whether we should use signed or unsigned for things like Range offsets etc.
# [13:31] <AryehGregor> Sigh.
# [13:32] <AryehGregor> I guess the path of least resistance is probably unsigned, since everything but range offsets uses that.
# [13:32] <Ms2ger> sgtm :)
# [13:32] * AryehGregor likes the idea of unsigned better, but oh well
# [13:32] * AryehGregor likes the idea of *signed* better, but oh well
# [13:33] * AryehGregor notes that some code accepts "-1" as a magical offset meaning "the last", which won't work without casts if we use strict compiler options
# [13:33] <AryehGregor> smaug, would you take a patch to change range offsets to be unsigned?
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# [13:34] <AryehGregor> Hmm -- is underflow of an unsigned integer well-defined in C++?
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# [13:36] <Ms2ger> As in uint32(-1)?
# [13:37] <AryehGregor> Ugh, why does dxr do string search instead of identifier match by default?
# [13:37] <AryehGregor> Ah, okay.
# [13:37] <AryehGregor> Well, sure.
# [13:38] <AryehGregor> Or PRUint32 x = 0; x--; or whatever.
# [13:38] <jcranmer> AryehGregor: yes
# [13:38] <AryehGregor> Ah, that's interesting.
# [13:38] <jlebar> jfkthame++
# [13:38] <jcranmer> unsigned integers are guaranteed to be basically arithmetic modulo 2^N for an appropriate value of N
# [13:38] <jlebar> jfkthame: That was awesome.
# [13:39] <jfkthame> jlebar: ?
# [13:39] <jlebar> jfkthame: The two incorrect loop bodies.
# [13:39] <jfkthame> ah :)
# [13:40] <jcranmer> AryehGregor: so -1 is congruent to 2^32 -1 mod 2^32, so (unsigned)-1 is equal to to UINT_MAX if unsigned is a 32-bit integer
# [13:41] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, surely UINT_MAX is always unsigned(-1)?
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# [13:41] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b4d033913a03 - Michael Wu - Bug 768377 - Back out Bug 762153 due to regression on akami, r=cjones
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# [13:42] <AryehGregor> So, question: is there any reason we prefer macros to inline functions for things like MOZ_ASSERT or NS_SUCCEEDED?
# [13:42] <AryehGregor> Hmm, I guess MOZ_ASSERT needs to print its argument as a string.
# [13:42] <AryehGregor> So it can't be an inline function.
# [13:42] <AryehGregor> So ignore that example.
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# [13:44] <Ms2ger> Also, MOZ_ASSERT needs to not expand its argument in non-debug
# [13:44] <AryehGregor> Right.
# [13:44] <Ms2ger> But changing NS_SUCCEEDED sounds good to me :)
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# [13:49] <@roc> I think the "undefined behavior" argument is weak
# [13:50] <@roc> overflowing and wrapping around is quite likely to be just as catastrophic as undefined behavior, even though it's defined
# [13:50] <AryehGregor> Well, at least you can reliably check for it.
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# [13:51] <AryehGregor> You can't reliably check for undefined behavior, right? Because the compiler is allowed to eat the check.
# [13:51] <@roc> with MOZ_ASSERT_NONNEGATIVE you mean?
# [13:51] <@roc> it depends on how you check for overflow I guess
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# [13:51] <@roc> if you're conservative it's OK
# [13:52] <AryehGregor> I mean, basically I agree with you in that I prefer signed types.
# [13:52] <AryehGregor> I think their behavior will make more sense to people who think like normal programmers and not language lawyers.
# [13:52] * rail_away is now known as rail
# [13:53] <derf> What is the difference between normal programmers and language lawyers?
# [13:54] <AryehGregor> The methods I'd want to convert to signed are all in content/base/, I think, so if an owner or peer is willing to r+ the change, I'm happy to write a patch.
# [13:55] <AryehGregor> bz_sleep, what do you think? (About having things like nsINode::Length, GetChildCount, etc. return PRInt32 instead of PRUint32.)
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# [13:56] <@roc> derf: normal programmers are happy when their code passes tryserver; language lawyers aren't happy until they know it would run on a Cray-1
# [13:56] <derf> So in this context "normal programmers" == "bad programmers". Got it.
# [13:56] <Ms2ger> I'd object to that
# [13:57] <Callek> perfectionists vs realists is more like it
# [13:57] <Callek> the enemy of the good, is the perfect
# [13:57] <Callek> (especially in programming)
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# [13:57] <AryehGregor> derf, normal programmers think of "int" as "something that behaves like an integer in pretty much all the cases I care about". Language lawyers think of "int" as "an integer type defined to be at least 16 bits long, at least as long as 'short', no longer than 'long', . . ."
# [13:57] <mwu> ehsan: hm, shouldn't the git m-c mirror have updated by now?
# [13:57] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
# [13:59] <heycam> where are mouse events on links handled? I'm wondering why any mousedown on a link these days marks the link as visited, even if you don't open the link, and was going to dig around.
# [13:59] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, why would you object to it?
# [14:00] <Ms2ger> Because using signed integers for things that can never be negative is silly
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# [14:00] <heycam> inconsistency between PRUint32s and PRInt32s have annoyed me, end up having to do a bunch of casting to satisfy compilers with warnings-as-errors turned on
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# [14:01] <derf> Right. It's the same reason that not using const for things that can never be written to isn't silly.
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# [14:01] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, but that way we can easily detect underflow with MOZ_ASSERT(foo >= 0), whereas if it happens with unsigned values it's not nearly as obvious.
# [14:01] <Ms2ger> Don't overflow
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# [14:02] <derf> Like anything else, sometimes it's a good idea, sometimes it isn't.
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# [14:02] <AryehGregor> Um, good advice, but it's nice to be able to actually check for bugs . . .
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# [14:02] <@roc> derf: yes
# [14:02] <@roc> unfortunately
# [14:02] <Ms2ger> Do tell how you're going to underflow in Length(), btw
# [14:03] <heycam> it's not necessarily in Length(), but what you do with the return value
# [14:03] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, you're not. You might underflow when you do things like PRUint32 = range->StartOffset(); /* lots of processing goes here */
# [14:03] <AryehGregor> And I want StartOffset() and Length() to be the same type so we don't have to cast to compare them.
# [14:04] <AryehGregor> There are tons of editor functions that accept node/offset pairs as arguments. They could come from anywhere.
# [14:04] <AryehGregor> If offsets were unsigned, you'd have to check for underflow in a significantly less intuitive manner.
# [14:04] <@roc> if you make content offsets unsigned, then nsTextFrame will get very unhappy
# [14:04] <AryehGregor> E.g., MOZ_ASSERT(aOffset & 0x80000000 == 0) or some wrapper for that.
# [14:05] <AryehGregor> Also, some functions accept -1 as a special value for an offset input.
# [14:05] <AryehGregor> Which is impossible if it's signed.
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# [14:06] <AryehGregor> roc, why?
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# [14:07] <@roc> right now we use signed integers to represent offsets into text nodes and unsigned integers to represent offsets into text runs (which contain text possibly from multiple nodes with whitespace collapsed and certain other processing applied)
# [14:07] <@roc> warnings on signed/unsigned mismatches help debug problems
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# [14:07] <Ms2ger> Whoa, "Web IDL (Second Edition)"
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# [14:08] <heycam> Ms2ger, I just branched it off so I could add new feature requests while the first edition does its W3C thing
# [14:08] <AryehGregor> roc, that seems excessively magical. You couldn't define some trivial wrapper class that will get compiled to the same code but will make comparisons fail?
# [14:08] <Ms2ger> heycam, sounds silly, the first edition isn't going to do that thing for a number of years
# [14:08] <@roc> historically I haven't had much luck with trying to get compilers to boil away wrapper classes around simple integer types
# [14:09] <AryehGregor> Sad.
# [14:09] <@roc> we tried to do it for nscoord and it totally failed
# [14:09] <heycam> Ms2ger, maybe
# [14:09] <@roc> that was years ago, maybe things have improved
# [14:09] * kmoir-afk is now known as kmoir
# [14:09] <AryehGregor> Would be nice if they had.
# [14:09] <Ms2ger> heycam, oh, and there's no link to the CR in the ED
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# [14:10] <AryehGregor> roc, maybe you could be sneaky and make them enums, then use them like regular integer types?
# [14:10] <heycam> Ms2ger, will add (once I've finished some other edits)
# [14:10] <Ms2ger> Ta
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# [14:12] <derf> AryehGregor: That's a really bad idea.
# [14:12] <AryehGregor> It sure sounds like one, but I couldn't think way.
# [14:12] <AryehGregor> Enlighten me, please. :)
# [14:12] <derf> Well, for one thing, the signedness of enums is not guaranteed.
# [14:12] <derf> Compilers get to pick.
# [14:12] <AryehGregor> You could use C++0x enums with an explicit base type.
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# [14:13] <AryehGregor> (falling back to the base type itself if that's not supported)
# [14:13] <derf> For a second thing, compilers make all kinds of crazy assumptions about enums and warn you when they aren't met.
# [14:13] <AryehGregor> True.
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# [14:14] * Ms2ger does something useful instead
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# [14:17] <@smaug> oh, WebIDL is the real spec
# [14:17] <@smaug> (2nd ed)
# [14:17] <@smaug> and the 1st ed is effectively deprecated, or obsolete
# [14:17] <heycam> pretty much
# [14:17] <heycam> "for the people who don't care about versions" or some such I said in my mail
# [14:18] <AryehGregor> smaug, do you have an opinion on the use of PRInt32 vs. PRUint32 for range offsets, nsINode::GetChildCount, etc.?
# [14:18] <AryehGregor> Everyone seems to disagree on which is preferable. I mostly just want them to match.
# [14:18] <AryehGregor> (although I'd prefer PRInt32)
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# [14:19] <@smaug> I think I'd prefer unsigned...but the problem is things like IndexOf
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# [14:20] <AryehGregor> Ah, right, that has to return signed.
# [14:20] <@smaug> yeah
# [14:20] <AryehGregor> Also, some editor methods take a signed offset and use -1 to mean "the end".
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# [14:20] <AryehGregor> Maybe that's bad, I don't know.
# [14:20] <Ms2ger> Editor does a lot of silly things :)
# [14:20] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, what do you think IndexOf should return if the node isn't found?
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# [14:21] <Ms2ger> Signed -1
# [14:21] <AryehGregor> So it should return PRInt32 even though offsets everywhere else are PRUint32?
# [14:21] <Ms2ger> Right
# [14:21] <AryehGregor> So we have to cast the result?
# [14:21] <@smaug> hmm
# [14:21] <@smaug> that would be unfortunate
# [14:21] <Ms2ger> Yes, because you need to think about how you want to handle the -1 case
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# [14:22] <@roc> if (result < 0) ...
# [14:22] <jfkthame> couldn't it return NOT_FOUND, where NOT_FOUND is defined as PRUint32(-1) ?
# [14:22] <Ms2ger> Indeed
# [14:22] <jfkthame> if (result == NOT_FOUND) ....
# [14:23] <@smaug> IndexOf returns quite commonly -1 if something isn't found
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# [14:23] <gaston> anyone knows what's up with fx 13.0.2 ? so far 767612 only deals with its preparation but it doesnt look planned for actual release
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# [14:24] <@smaug> AryehGregor: which all methods would you change to take or return PRUint32?
# [14:24] <Callek> gaston: its in limbo for now
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# [14:24] <Callek> gaston: which is relatedly why we don't announce a release until its all said and done
# [14:24] <AryehGregor> smaug, what? I didn't understand that. I'd want to change everything that deals with offsets, as much as possible.
# [14:25] <AryehGregor> To avoid casts and/or compiler warnings.
# [14:25] <@smaug> AryehGregor: well, obviously *if* IndexOf would return PRInt32, there would be at least one method returning PRInt32
# [14:25] <AryehGregor> Yes, so I'd have to keep that, and anything similar.
# [14:25] <AryehGregor> But everything else I'd make unsigned.
# [14:25] <gaston> Callek: ghost release :)
# [14:26] <@smaug> AryehGregor: could you make everything to use signed ?
# [14:26] <AryehGregor> Yes, I could do that too.
# [14:26] <AryehGregor> I guess Ms2ger would argue that IndexOf *should* return a different type, though.
# [14:26] <AryehGregor> Because it means something different.
# [14:26] <AryehGregor> I'm somewhat on the fence.
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# [14:27] <AryehGregor> Likewise for the editor/ methods -- I could define separate variants that took PRInt32, and make those wrappers around the PRUint32 variants.
# [14:27] <AryehGregor> That sounds attractive to me now.
# [14:28] <@smaug> is this unsigned vs. signed causing any real problems?
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# [14:29] <heycam> it causes me a problem when things compile nicely with warnings locally and fail when I push to try because of warnings-as-errors :)
# [14:29] <AryehGregor> smaug, right now it requires casts occasionally because of -Wsigned-comparison. I want to try enabling -Wsigned-conversion in editor dir-by-dir, and that would require a *lot* of casts if the types don't match.
# [14:29] <AryehGregor> So, yes, I'd say that's a real problem, although not a huge one.
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# [14:30] <decoder> espindola: thanks for taking care of that bug. is it ok that I flagged you for review on the other bug? that config file is solely used by me and I thought you can review best :)
# [14:30] <espindola> decoder, I am assuming "that bug" == 768406
# [14:30] <espindola> which one is the "other bug"? :-)
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# [14:31] <espindola> 768405 I guess
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# [14:32] <decoder> espindola: right :D
# [14:32] <decoder> thanks!
# [14:32] <@smaug> AryehGregor: I don't have strong feelings about this. Do whatever makes the code least error prone and easiest to read :)
# [14:33] <@smaug> and IndexOf should return -1
# [14:33] <AryehGregor> Yay.
# [14:33] <@smaug> (if the object isn't found)
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# [14:33] <Callek> smaug: awww we could have made our code sooo much faster if we could strip IndexOf implementation down to *just* return -1
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# [14:40] <@khuey> Ms2ger: yourself?
# [14:41] <Ms2ger> Besides me
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# [14:43] <Ms2ger> khuey, and you should find some time to read gps's post
# [14:43] <@smaug> how is khuey awake. probably he wanted to review my patches
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# [14:44] <NeilAway> jfkthame: actually I noticed my error when I saw Benoit's reply (since he CCd me)
# [14:45] <@khuey> it's only 5:30 am
# [14:45] <@khuey> :-P
# [14:45] <gaston> Ms2ger: that post got my mind totally blown
# [14:45] <derf> khuey: Exactly.
# [14:45] <Ms2ger> gaston, interested in a build system job? :)
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# [14:46] <NeilAway> we have a kNotFound which iirc is something like ~0U
# [14:46] <gaston> Ms2ger: errr... when days will be 48h, i'd enjoy that :)
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# [14:48] <NeilAway> gaston: hmm, not sure whether earth's rotation will decay fast enough for that to happen before the Sun "explodes"
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# [14:52] <@roc> the Sun won't explode
# [14:53] <@roc> I believe with current projections the Earth's rotation stops before it get swallowed by the Sun's red giant stage
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# [14:55] <gaston> by then we'll be at firefox -1, since version number would have overflown
# [14:55] <Callek> gaston: no
# [14:56] <Callek> we'll be using PRUint128 by then
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# [14:56] <gaston> uint128_t please
# [14:56] <Ms2ger> ^
# [14:56] <Callek> nope, we'll be carrying NSPR naming conventions along to the death of earth
# [14:57] <gaston> or maybe it'll have migrated to NewPRUint128_t
# [14:57] <Ms2ger> Missing ns
# [14:57] <@roc> actually, that's wrong. we won't get tidally locked to the Sun,.
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# [15:10] <Yoric> dougt: ping
# [15:10] <NeilAway> roc: well, its size "explodes" at least, just not violently (as if you can call being engulfed by a fusion reaction nonviolent)
# [15:11] <dougt> Yoric: hey
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# [15:11] <Yoric> dougt: Hi, how are you?
# [15:12] <dougt> good. you?
# [15:12] <Yoric> Fine, thanks.
# [15:12] <Yoric> Having fun segfaulting everything from JavaScript :)
# [15:12] <dougt> looked at my review queue.
# [15:12] <dougt> nothing for you.
# [15:12] <Yoric> Nope.
# [15:12] <Yoric> Not yet :)
# [15:12] <dougt> i am not segfaulting right now.
# [15:12] <dougt> are you?
# [15:13] <Yoric> Well, with judicious application of js-ctypes and improperly defined data structure, I certainly do :)
# [15:13] <Yoric> Do you mind if I ask you to review the patches of bug 764436?
# [15:13] <Yoric> (once I have updated them)
# [15:13] <jcranmer> NeilAway: I don't think we'd be absorbed by the core, but the heat currents would disintegrate our bodies
# [15:13] <Yoric> taras cannot review them for the time being
# [15:14] <dougt> i can tonight.
# [15:14] <dougt> in spain at the b2g shindig.
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# [15:14] <Yoric> dougt: If you are too busy, I can find someone else, just give me the word.
# [15:15] <dougt> thanks.
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# [15:16] <Yoric> Actually, bug 707696 is more urgent.
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# [15:17] <Yoric> dougt: So if you have time to review bug 707696, that's great.
# [15:17] <Yoric> Otherwise, it will just have to wait.
# [15:17] <dougt> put in my queue.
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# [15:17] <Yoric> Thanks.
# [15:17] <dougt> i can redirect if I don't get to it tonigth
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# [15:20] <Yoric> perfect
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# [15:23] <smontagu> Ms2ger: I didn't see the tweet, but I saw the update on public-i18n-bidi
# [15:23] <AryehGregor> Is gcc 4.2 supported in practice, or can we ignore it?
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# [15:24] <AryehGregor> Blech, it's used for Mac.
# [15:25] <gaston> (and openbsd)
# [15:25] <Yoric> dougt: And of course, if you have enough time for bug 764436 (or if you can redirect it), it's even better.
# [15:26] <Callek> AryehGregor: its necessary to deal with it, at least in some minor fashions
# [15:26] <Callek> since you need to deal with it for l10n-repacks (its used for the mar binary)
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# [15:27] * AryehGregor is trying to figure out how to allow "-Wconversion -Wsigned-conversion" to be added on a per-dir basis
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# [15:28] <ekr> AryehGregor: when you do, let me know, since I have some directories which need -Wno-parentheses
# [15:28] <AryehGregor> Hmm, so maybe a more general mechanism would be nice.
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# [15:29] <AryehGregor> Hmm, why would you want to disable that warning?
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# [15:30] <ekr> because I'm importing a big chunk of code which does if (rv = foo()) {}
# [15:30] <ekr> so we can either have a -Wno-parenthes or we can have -Werror, but not both
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# [15:38] <AryehGregor> "CXXFLAGS += -Wconversion -Wsigned-conversion" doesn't seem to work.
# [15:38] <AryehGregor> (in editor/Makefile.in)
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# [15:46] <Callek> edmorley: does anything stand out that could cause SeaMonkey (debug) win jobs to hang in [seemingly] shutdown landing recently
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# [15:46] <Callek> edmorley: e.g. your inbound merge
# [15:46] <Callek> s/hang/take much longer/
# [15:46] <Callek> edmorley: http://tbpl.drapostles.org/?rev=08dcb285b375
# [15:46] <Callek> edmorley: the blame for that is your merge and a single calendar push
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# [15:46] <Callek> (normally mochi 1-5 are green now)
# [15:47] <jcranmer> AryehGregor: you have to position them correctly
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# [15:47] <jcranmer> since $(DEPTH)/config/autoconf.mk does a CXXFLAGS = foo
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# [15:49] <edmorley> Callek: sorry, just had to show more people into the community area; is getting quite busy here now (presume due to the mobile release)
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# [15:50] <edmorley> Callek: I'm sorry I don't really know; I presume you don't have anything tracking inbound?
# [15:50] <Callek> edmorley: ooo you mean the office
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# [15:50] <edmorley> yeah
# [15:50] <Callek> edmorley: yea tracking inbound would overwhelm our infra
# [15:50] <Callek> so no
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# [15:54] <@smaug> AryehGregor: you didn't make DF to not inherit nsGenericElement yet, right?
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# [15:58] <momo> i have a question:
# [15:58] <momo> iv we would develop a web plattform for mozilla
# [15:58] <momo> would you support opa?
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# [16:04] <@smaug> momo: don't understand the question
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# [16:22] <Ms2ger> smaug, no, not yet
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# [16:37] <AryehGregor> smaug, I tried writing a patch and posted it to the bug, but I gave up on making it work. It's bitrotted pretty badly already, of course.
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# [16:38] <AryehGregor> I think I was taking the wrong approach.
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# [16:39] <AryehGregor> Probably the first thing to do is just rename nsGenericElement to ElementOrFragment, and add a dummy nsGenericElement class in between that just matches ElementOrFragment exactly.
# [16:39] <AryehGregor> Then write a separate patch that splits off bunches of the functionality.
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# [16:42] <jcranmer> in case anyone believes that cmake is a better buildsystem then autoconf+make
# [16:42] <jcranmer> I have come to the conclusion that it is not
# [16:43] <Ms2ger> Congratulations
# [16:44] <jcranmer> I'm installing a program because I want to get the equivalent of ./configure --help
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# [16:44] <gcp> That is really quite frightening if you think about how good (gargle) autoconf is
# [16:44] <ebassi> \o\ |o| /o/
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# [16:44] <Ms2ger> gcp, did you read scrollback?
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# [16:45] <Ms2ger> Wait, no
# [16:45] <gcp> </sarcasm>
# [16:45] <Ms2ger> Nvm, too many gxx nicks
# [16:45] <Ms2ger> Can't you use another name? :)
# [16:45] <gcp> I'll tell my parents you complained.
# [16:46] <gaston> autoconf, kindly nicknamed autohell
# [16:46] <AryehGregor> jcranmer, I have them after "include $(DEPTH)/config/autoconf.mk". I tried putting them both before and after "include $(topsrcdir)/config/rules.mk", neither seemed to work. (I'm guessing it has to be before.)
# [16:46] <Ms2ger> I'll come over and do it myself :)
# [16:46] <jcranmer> too bad I can't /nick g++
# [16:46] <AryehGregor> objdir/editor/Makefile reflected the change.
# [16:46] <gcp> Ms2ger: I know it can't be far for you :P
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# [16:46] <ekr> maybe you can /nick clang instead
# [16:47] <Ms2ger> Zing
# [16:47] <jcranmer> AryehGregor: between $(topsrcdir)/config/config.mk and config/rules.make should be the right place
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# [16:59] <Cwiiis> paul, ping?
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# [17:00] <Ms2ger> Morning, bz_sleep
# [17:00] <paul> Cwiiis: pong
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# [17:01] <@bz> Ms2ger: what made you think I was awake? ;)
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# [17:01] <Ms2ger> Bugzilla
# [17:01] <@bz> "Oh, no! Important Google Play features may not work in your browser."
# [17:01] * @bz laughs
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# [17:01] <@bz> That's part of the 3 lines of text a Google search shows for Google Play... ;)
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# [17:01] <@bz> Sounds like their UA sniffing didn't like the spider
# [17:01] <Ms2ger> Hah
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# [17:02] <Cwiiis> paul, with the responsive design mode thingy, would it also be a good idea to have a touch-event simulator mode too? (for developing mobile sites on desktop)
# [17:02] <Ms2ger> Ah, spacer gifs :)
# [17:02] <paul> Cwiiis: yes
# [17:03] <paul> Cwiiis: there are a lot of things we could do for mobile
# [17:03] <paul> Cwiiis: but step after step :)
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# [17:04] <Cwiiis> paul, is there a bug for that? Is it worth filing?
# [17:04] <@ehsan> BenWa: http://gregoryszorc.com/blog/2012/06/25/improving-mozilla%27s-build-system/
# [17:04] <@ehsan> BenWa: (I silently shed some tears this morning when I read it ;)
# [17:04] <BenWa> ehsan: Yea :)
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# [17:04] <BenWa> I hope it happens soon
# [17:04] <Ms2ger> ehsan, #developers assigned gps to implementing it full-time this morning, fwiw ;)
# [17:05] <@ehsan> oh cool
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# [17:05] <@ehsan> gps: I'll send you a bottle of scotch myself :)
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# [17:05] * BenWa adds +1 to the unanimous consensus of #developers!
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# [17:06] <@bz> Ms2ger: fwiw, nothing says I can't post to Bugzilla in my sleep (e.g. via cron job)
# [17:06] * @bz should set one up, with bzapi, just to mess with people
# [17:07] <Ms2ger> Joke's on you, people will ask you for quick reviews because you're online anyway :)
# [17:07] <jwir3> well, plus that, and bz|sleep doesn't actually mean you're sleeping. (Or else you can code in your sleep... impressive.)
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# [17:07] <wsmwk> question - does -safemode bypass startup caches?
# [17:07] * jwir3 is starting to think it's probably the latter.
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# [17:07] <froydnj> auto-deny reviews requested while you're sleeping saying "because you woke me up"
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# [17:09] <@dolske> Ms2ger: nothing says he can't do reviews via cron job too... ;-)
# [17:10] <paul> Cwiiis: I don't think we have a bug for that
# [17:11] <Cwiiis> paul, will file one in that case
# [17:11] <paul> Cwiiis: thanks :)
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# [17:12] <jcranmer> we really need to use := much more often than =
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# [17:12] <Wes> you're talking about make, it can be a huge perf boost when used appropriately
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# [17:13] <Wes> s/^/if /
# [17:13] <Ms2ger> Correct
# [17:13] <Wes> lazy expansion is awesome, but comes at a price
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# [17:13] <Ms2ger> Wes, context is http://gregoryszorc.com/blog/2012/06/25/improving-mozilla%27s-build-system/
# [17:13] <jcranmer> no, I need it because it helps me to do things like override variables in a particular makefile
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# [17:14] <sawrubh> ehsan: not to rush you, could you maybe review 722988 today maybe.
# [17:14] <Wes> Ms2ger: thanks, reading (BTW I have a huge interest in better build systems, but no time budget ATM)
# [17:14] <sawrubh> ehsan: it'll give me peace :P
# [17:15] * ewong is now known as ewong|sleep
# [17:15] <Ms2ger> Wes, if you don't have a time budget, you may want to punt on reading, it's huge ;)
# [17:15] <@ehsan> sawrubh: yep, I'll get to all of my reviews today :)
# [17:15] <Ms2ger> Ooh
# [17:15] <Ms2ger> Sounds like I need to r? some editor patches
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# [17:15] <sawrubh> ehsan: Thank you sir ;)
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# [17:16] <jcranmer> gps: fixing our configure mess at some point would also be wonderful
# [17:17] <sawrubh> Ms2ger: at the risk of sounding stupid, what is this editor I keep hearing about. Is it something related to some devtool ?
# [17:17] <Ms2ger> jcranmer, file bugs, cc him, it might work out :)
# [17:17] <Ms2ger> sawrubh, <textarea></textarea> <-- you can type in here
# [17:17] <Ms2ger> That's what editor is for :)
# [17:17] <jcranmer> of course, being able to use a newer autoconf than 2.13 would be splendid
# [17:18] <gaston> hmm is it normal for bundled pdf.js to show up as 'incompatible with nightly 16.0a1' ?
# [17:18] <froydnj> there is a bug on file for autoconf2.13
# [17:18] <Wes> Ms2ger: Yeah. I am now up to "Transitioning to a Single DAG" in betwen 658 other tasks... I have actually taken that approach with my current project, eliminating many $(MAKE)s in favour of better include directives. Another big win for me recently was building "makedepend" for CommonJS/2.0 modules. We have a rather large project and NFSd hg repos, so eliminating work helps a lot.
# [17:18] <sawrubh> Ms2ger: can you give some bug # so that I can know where the source for the editor is ?
# [17:18] <jcranmer> I know
# [17:18] <jcranmer> I'm cc'd
# [17:18] <Ms2ger> gaston, I think the extension is obsolete
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# [17:18] <@ehsan> Ms2ger: that's not the only thing it's used for, unfortunately ;)
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# [17:18] <Ms2ger> Indeed
# [17:18] <@khuey> are there linux distros that don't have a package for 2.13?
# [17:19] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/22e58ac501b5 - Kyle Huey - Bug 755510: db.transaction should work inside a versionchange transaction's oncomplete handler. r=bent
# [17:19] <Ms2ger> sawrubh, mozilla-central/editor
# [17:19] <@ehsan> sawrubh: editor lives in editor/ :)
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# [17:19] <sawrubh> :P
# [17:19] <jcranmer> let me modify my statement
# [17:19] <gaston> Ms2ger: obsolete wrt what ? i though it was meant to be shipped with firefox..
# [17:19] <jcranmer> of course, being able to not need autoconf at all would be splendid
# [17:19] <Ms2ger> gaston, built into Firefox rather than an extension
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# [17:20] <gaston> ah
# [17:20] <gaston> so if it shows as an extension that's because it was this way at some point
# [17:20] <froydnj> khuey: I think many of them do simply for firefox
# [17:20] <@khuey> froydnj: so then what's the problem? ;-)
# [17:20] <Ms2ger> gaston, it was when it first landed
# [17:21] <gaston> okay
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# [17:22] <sawrubh> Ms2ger: still bug # please :P
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# [17:23] <@ehsan> firebot: uuid
# [17:23] <firebot> 983cb266-535b-4ca5-8ef2-2cee08d061e6 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
# [17:23] <Ms2ger> Everything in Core::Editor :)
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# [17:23] <froydnj> khuey: why did they ever let you maintain the build system...
# [17:23] <sawrubh> Ms2ger: thanks
# [17:23] <Ms2ger> froydnj, he volunteered
# [17:23] <Callek> froydnj: because he is/was good at it
# [17:23] <@khuey> froydnj: it's all shaver's fault
# [17:23] <@khuey> Ms2ger: no, I most certainly did not
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# [17:24] <Callek> khuey: you can no longer blame shaver
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# [17:24] <@khuey> yes I can
# [17:24] <jwir3> hahaha
# [17:24] <jwir3> the bugzilla quote I got just now, "Does a beaver have a flat dick?"
# [17:24] <derf> shaver is now the perfect person to blame, since he can't defend himself.
# [17:24] * Matti likes the dutch name for network and misses libpr0n
# [17:25] <Ms2ger> Matti, blame shaver
# [17:25] <froydnj> "backed out by khuey? blame it on shaver"
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# [17:26] <Matti> and we had a real domain for libpr0n -> http://libpr0n.com/
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# [17:28] <gaston> such a beautiful web 0.1 design
# [17:28] <Matti> blame pavlov
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# [17:29] * sawrubh is elated tbpl is working again
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# [17:29] <edmorley> s/tbpl/hgweb/ :-)
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# [17:30] <sawrubh> edmorley: what changed in the meantime which caused this better performance ?
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# [17:35] <edmorley> sawrubh: given bug 767657 comment 17, I presume enough later commits have been landed that the slow one if gone
# [17:35] <edmorley> s/if gone/has been pushed out the way/
# [17:35] <edmorley> but that's just a guess
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# [17:38] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, when using make -C objdir/foo syntax, how do I use multiple threads?
# [17:38] <AryehGregor> It seems to be running single-threaded, since it's not using config.mk.
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# [17:38] <@bsmedberg> AryehGregor: make -j6 -C objdir/foo
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# [17:38] <AryehGregor> Ah, right, I can pass that directly to make.
# [17:38] <@bsmedberg> where "6" is about twice the number of cores you have
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# [17:42] <@khuey> nice
# [17:42] <@khuey> the message from mozilla about firefox for android was marked as spam by gmail
# [17:43] <derf> Thunderbird and SeaMonkey apparently flagged it as a scam.
# [17:43] <gcp> yes
# [17:45] <AryehGregor> It wasn't spam?
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# [17:45] <Matti> My SM trunk marked it also as SCAM
# [17:45] <gcp> good point, imho
# [17:45] <gcp> I dont remember signing up for mailings when getting my mozillians account.
# [17:46] <jcranmer> espindola: ping
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# [17:47] <Matti> spamassasin think "T_DKIM_INVALID"
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# [17:49] <gcp> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
# [17:49] <gcp> DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK,
# [17:49] <gcp> SPF_PASS,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=no version=3.3.1
# [17:49] <gcp> "not here"
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# [17:52] <Matti> hmm, i have the same version (3.3.1)
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# [18:00] <espindola> jcranmer, pong
# [18:00] <jcranmer> espindola: how are you building clang with lto?
# [18:00] <jcranmer> er, using clang and lto to build mozilla?
# [18:01] <jcranmer> I'm getting failure in elfhack
# [18:01] <espindola> jcranmer, it was some time ago
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# [18:01] <Ms2ger> "Firefox for Android is here!"
# [18:01] <Ms2ger> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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# [18:01] <espindola> jcranmer, http://blog.mozilla.org/respindola/2011/02/23/lto-with-elfhack/
# [18:02] <espindola> maybe we regressed
# [18:02] <Callek> Ms2ger: ERROR: Buffer Overflow
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# [18:02] <Callek> (expected length 4: "NO!\0" :-) )
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# [18:03] <Matti> Ms2ger: really ?
# [18:03] <Callek> though I suppose that string I just pasted is technically length 5 is done in C++ since double-quotes yeild a \0 automatically
# [18:03] * Callek is not up on his C++ these days
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# [18:07] <kbrosnan> if you are in mtv will trade a tasty breakfast sandwich for a google play review of Firefox
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# [18:12] <Optimizer> how to get the tabs from the visible tab group ?
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# [18:13] <@smaug> ttaubert might know ^
# [18:13] <Optimizer> ttaubert: above ^
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# [18:17] <ttaubert> Optimizer: gBrowser.visibleTabs
# [18:17] <Optimizer> cool
# [18:18] <Optimizer> but _tPos is a global index, right ?
# [18:18] <Optimizer> like _tPos 0 can be in an hidden tab group
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# [18:18] <ttaubert> yeah
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# [18:22] <mwu> edmorley: any idea when the next m-i->m-c merge will be?
# [18:22] <gaston> !seen glandium
# [18:22] <firebot> glandium was last seen 9 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying 'neither /proc/diskstats nor /sys/block/*/stat contain I/O stats on mtd devices :(' in #perf.
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# [18:22] <gaston> glandium: reping #767403 :(
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# [18:24] <edmorley> mwu: one was done this morning, there are only 35 outstanding changesets, of which only 20 are pgo green
# [18:25] <edmorley> mwu: was there something specific you needed merging? :-)
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# [18:25] <mwu> edmorley: there may be - I'm looking a bit more closely
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# [18:28] <glandium> gaston: done
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# [18:29] <glandium> gaston: sorry for the delay
# [18:29] <mwu> edmorley: yeah - people want bug 768238 which was landed in https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Mozilla-Inbound&rev=8a0a36ccc830
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# [18:29] <gaston> glandium: thx :)
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# [18:31] <edmorley> mwu: that's in the pgo green subset, I'll merge now
# [18:32] <mwu> edmorley: oh, thanks!
# [18:32] <mwu> was trying to figure out if it was valid
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# [18:32] <edmorley> the android failure tea leaves take a bit of getting used to... :-)
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# [18:33] <sawrubh> jdm: yo
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# [18:34] <Optimizer> ttaubert: any idea on how to move the second tab to fourth position ? (visible tabs, 0 is the left most tab)
# [18:34] <Ms2ger> bz, (cc: AryehGregor) I thought I'd got nsGenericElement.h exported?
# [18:34] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, ?
# [18:34] * AryehGregor has to go
# [18:34] * AryehGregor has new hope for fixing bug 563659 \o/
# [18:34] <Ms2ger> You didn't read your bugmail in the last 8 minutes? :)
# [18:34] <edmorley> mwu: do you need nightlies?
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# [18:36] <mwu> edmorley: nah, just a merge will be sufficient
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# [18:36] <edmorley> mwu: cool; done :-)
# [18:36] <mwu> \o?
# [18:36] <mwu> \o/
# [18:37] <mwu> mangled arm
# [18:37] <Ms2ger> \o_
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# [18:39] <@bz> Ms2ger: oh, hmm
# [18:39] <@bz> Ms2ger: maybe!
# [18:39] <jdm> sawrubh: hey
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# [18:42] * gps catches up on scrollback. hopes he didn't sign himself up for a death march
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# [18:44] <gps> jcranmer: I view configure as a separate and distinct step from building. highly related, definitely
# [18:44] <gps> there are many ways to fix configure. most of them involve something not m4
# [18:44] <jcranmer|away> yeah
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# [18:45] <jcranmer|away> I think moving our configure off of shell would be next to impossible in any small amount of time
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# [18:46] <edmorley> ehsan: have you clobbered?
# [18:46] <gps> the benefits of optimizing the build phase of the build system dwarf those of optimizing configure. even on Windows, where configure sucks (mainly because of new process overhead)
# [18:46] <@ehsan> edmorley: no
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# [18:47] <Ms2ger> gps, you didn't sign yourself up for a death march
# [18:47] <Ms2ger> gps, roc did sign you up for that :)
# [18:47] <gps> :)
# [18:48] <jcranmer|away> sigh
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# [18:48] <Waldo> mwu: captain hook, rather
# [18:48] <Ms2ger> So, you can start implementing :)
# [18:48] <mwu> oh I see.
# [18:48] <edmorley> ehsan: are you about to, or do you need me to? (boo to bug 756532 making it sure a pain)
# [18:49] <edmorley> s/sure/such/
# [18:49] * jcranmer|away has been increasingly despising our build system
# [18:49] <derf> Of course, part of the problem is we do an awful lot of things at build time that normal people would do during configure.
# [18:49] <Ms2ger> Normal people don't use either make or configure
# [18:49] <Waldo> derf: like what?
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# [18:50] <derf> Waldo: Stuff like:
# [18:50] <derf> ifneq ($(filter $(OS_ARCH),Linux Darwin),) DEFINES += -DHAVE_LRINTF
# [18:50] <derf> endif
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# [18:50] <gps> jcranmer: see bug 751795 for a patch that at least makes it prettier
# [18:51] <Waldo> hmm
# [18:51] <derf> (that's from media/libopus/Makefile.in)
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# [18:51] <sawrubh> jdm: about the GFX project that you were talking, I checked the bug linked there and that already seems to be nearly complete, only 2 are left on which Bas Schouten is working
# [18:51] <gps> I'm guessing that line wasn't reviewed by a build system peer
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# [18:51] <jdm> sawrubh: you could check with the #gfx people if there will be others
# [18:51] <gps> or someone opened up configure.in and just gve up
# [18:51] <jcranmer|away> derf: half the problem is we have a half trillion different subprojects that we import wholesale into the code
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# [18:52] * sawrubh wanders away
# [18:52] <Ms2ger> gps, r=ted
# [18:52] <derf> gps: r=ted
# [18:52] <sawrubh> jdm: Btw is Ba-s(without the dash) the guy who's working on that ?
# [18:52] * Ms2ger high-fives derf
# [18:52] <jdm> sawrubh: yep
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# [18:53] <derf> jcranmer: That's certainly a fun problem.
# [18:53] <derf> I mean, I know _I_ enjoy rewriting the libvpx build system everytime we import a new version of their library, but...
# [18:54] <jcranmer> gps: mozilla-central essentially consists of gecko, JS, libffi, nspr, nss, jemalloc, libjpeg, libpng, libbz2, etc., all in a single almost-build-sytsem
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# [18:55] <gps> jcranmer: we manage it today. we can figure it out in the future
# [18:55] <derf> jcranmer: libogg, libvorbis, Tremor, libtheora, libvpx, webrtc, libyuv...
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# [18:55] <derf> And that's just the ones I work on.
# [18:56] <gps> I hear you that it is a dark put
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# [18:56] <gps> pit
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# [18:58] <Ms2ger> Half of those are maintained by Mozilla employees, so we have some power to fix them, at least :)
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# [18:59] <Ms2ger> gps, (so, is "mach" the final name?)
# [19:00] <gps> Ms2ger: unless someone comes up with something better
# [19:00] <Ms2ger> How about "pony"?
# [19:00] <derf> cakepony
# [19:00] <derf> (not to be confused with pony cake)
# [19:00] <Ms2ger> The cake is a lie
# [19:00] <@khuey> is pony cake made from ponies?
# [19:00] <gps> hmmm. I like ponies
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# [19:01] <derf> khuey: Yes.
# [19:01] <Ms2ger> MONSTER
# [19:01] <@khuey> I see
# [19:01] <Ms2ger> Like khuey
# [19:01] * @khuey r-s all of Ms2ger's future DOM patches
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# [19:03] * Ms2ger rm -rf's IDB
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# [19:04] <@khuey> your commit access is now disabled
# [19:04] <Ms2ger> Finally!
# [19:04] * Ms2ger dumps a nuke on Fla
# [19:04] <@khuey> you know I don't live there anymore ...
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# [19:05] <Ms2ger> :)
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# [19:05] <peterv> khuey: we don't have any nukes that aren't US property, so he's bluffing
# [19:05] <vlad> sewardj: ping
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# [19:05] <sewardj> vlad: pong
# [19:05] <Ms2ger> peterv, otoh, you know how easy those are to get at :)
# [19:06] <vlad> sewardj: heya.. question for ya, I'm looking at the SPS profiler, and it's pretty awesome
# [19:06] <vlad> but it really desperately needs better stack unwinding, especially on ARM
# [19:06] <@khuey> peterv: :-D
# [19:06] <vlad> how hard do you think that would be to add?
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# [19:06] <vlad> and how hard would it be to convince you to add it? :D
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# [19:06] <peterv> Ms2ger: well, I wouldn't recommend trying to get one
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# [19:06] <@bz> peterv: er... I'm pretty sure France has some of their own if it comes to that!
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# [19:06] <sewardj> vlad: the SPS profiler is the built-in one?
# [19:06] <vlad> yeah
# [19:06] <peterv> bz: France, yes, Belgium not so much :-)
# [19:07] <@bz> peterv: sure
# [19:07] <@bz> peterv: (though I bet you could get France to lend you some!)
# [19:07] <sewardj> vlad: does it work on x86-64 linux?
# [19:07] <Ms2ger> I could get France's and blame peterv
# [19:07] <@khuey> lol
# [19:07] <vlad> I believe so
# [19:07] <vlad> the profiler does for sure
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# [19:07] <vlad> I'm not sure if stackwalking does, though.. BenWa?
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# [19:07] <peterv> if they're to be used against the US France might be persuaded, yes
# [19:07] <sewardj> vlad: then (with zero knowledge about this ..) it should be doable on arm-linux, since they both use CFI based stack unwinding
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# [19:07] <vlad> sewardj: I know they experimented with stackwalking through backtrace() and libunwind, but were getting either bogus results or too slow
# [19:08] <sewardj> vlad: basically i'm saying x86_64-linux and arm-linux use the same mechanism
# [19:08] <vlad> sewardj: nod
# [19:08] <vlad> hmm
# [19:08] <BenWa> vlad: sewardj: We have stack walking on all desktop platform but the linux once uses glibc backtrace and is buggy so I disabled it
# [19:08] <vlad> ah, there
# [19:08] <peterv> bz: though it seems unwise to threaten a country that has nukes stationed in your own country
# [19:08] <BenWa> I want to move it to using framepointer like mac
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# [19:09] <peterv> bz: you don't even have to launch them :-)
# [19:09] <@khuey> heh
# [19:09] <Ms2ger> peterv, who said anything about threatening? :)
# [19:09] <sewardj> BenWa: where is the profiler, in the tree?
# [19:09] <BenWa> sewardj: tools/profiler/*
# [19:09] <sewardj> BenWa: so on exactly which platforms does it work?
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# [19:09] <BenWa> sewardj: It works on win, mac, linux, android fennec, b2g
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# [19:10] <vlad> (the profiler, mind you; not stack unwinding, I think that's basically disabled everywhere?)
# [19:10] <BenWa> It doesn't work the exact same way everywhere
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# [19:10] <BenWa> No, we stackwalk on mac and linux
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# [19:10] * sewardj doesn't understand how the profiler can do anything sane without stack unwinding
# [19:10] <BenWa> sorry we stackwalk on mac and windows on nightly builds
# [19:10] <@smaug> (no stackwalking on 64bit linux)
# [19:11] <vlad> sewardj: oh; it supports manual annotation of code and basically walks that chain
# [19:11] <vlad> so you get pc + the manually annotated chain
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# [19:11] <sewardj> vlad: does that also work on arm linux, then?
# [19:11] <BenWa> Yes, we do that if we can't stackwalk because we don't have framepointers built (release builds)
# [19:11] <@khuey> so which version of Gecko is android firefox based on?
# [19:11] <@bz> 14
# [19:11] <vlad> sewardj: yep
# [19:11] <@khuey> really?
# [19:11] <@bz> yes
# [19:11] <@khuey> that's ... unfortunate
# [19:11] <@bz> heh
# [19:11] <@smaug> how so?
# [19:12] <vlad> khuey: well, the next one will be 15!
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# [19:12] <BenWa> sewardj: vlad: Try it on desktop mac or windows if you have that around. Install nightly and the extension
# [19:12] <vlad> and then 16 after that..
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# [19:12] <Ms2ger> vlad, :o
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# [19:12] <BenWa> But yea, on arm we really need stackwalking to get parity
# [19:12] <@khuey> smaug: because nobody bothered to tell people that stuff they wanted in 14 needed to land already
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# [19:12] <vlad> BenWa: yeah, you just confused me when you said mac and linux first :)
# [19:12] <BenWa> Yea sorry
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# [19:12] <BenWa> linux just needs the bug fixed
# [19:13] <sewardj> BenWa, vlad: am happy to poke at this if that would help
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# [19:13] <vlad> khuey: there will be a point release soon
# [19:13] <gavin> khuey: why do you care about a number?
# [19:13] <vlad> sewardj: it would be a huge help :)
# [19:13] <@khuey> gavin: I don't care about the number
# [19:13] <vlad> sewardj: being able to use the profiler on fennec and b2g has been a huge help
# [19:13] <@khuey> gavin: I care about the fact that the Gecko that's in the 'beta' channel for desktop is shipping on mobile
# [19:13] <sewardj> BenWa, vlad: can we discuss later (in about 3 1/2 hours) ? it's early evening here
# [19:13] <vlad> since it just works, without having to fiddle with any platform pieces
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# [19:13] <BenWa> Yes sure
# [19:13] <vlad> absolutely, or via email; whatever's easier for you
# [19:13] <@khuey> gavin: and that if we wanted to backport things we've already lost
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# [19:13] <gavin> khuey: but why does that matter? desktop will still ship on schedule
# [19:14] <Ms2ger> khuey, Fx on android sucks so bad, they won't notice any sg:crits you haven't landed yet
# [19:14] <sewardj> BenWa, vlad: talk later then
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# [19:14] <vlad> great, thanks
# [19:15] <jprmc> ehsan: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768503
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# [19:18] <@ehsan> jprmc: thanks
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# [19:20] <edmorley> ehsan: have you clobbered those slaves yet?
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# [19:21] <@ehsan> edmorley: no, should I?
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# [19:21] <edmorley> or would you like me to?
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# [19:21] <@ehsan> edmorley: please!
# [19:21] <edmorley> ehsan: killing builds means a clobber is necessary; we just added a warning to TBPL, I presume you used self serve directly/
# [19:21] <edmorley> s_/_?_
# [19:22] <jcranmer> sigh
# [19:22] <@ehsan> yeah that's what I did
# [19:22] <jcranmer> LTO seems to be broken for me
# [19:24] <@smaug> so do we know why try tbpl is so broken?
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# [19:24] <@smaug> and is someone fixing it?
# [19:24] <edmorley> see tbpl try status
# [19:24] <@smaug> edmorley: that doesn't say much
# [19:24] <@smaug> nor the bug
# [19:25] <edmorley> the bug says all I know
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# [19:26] <@smaug> edmorley: and whoever maintains try knows how badly tryserver problems affect to all the devs?
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# [19:27] <taras> bent: what's the filename obfuscation logic in indexeddb?
# [19:27] <derf> smaug: I think the fact that you don't know who that is says all that needs to be said.
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# [19:30] <bent> taras, it's, um, awesome
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# [19:31] <bent> taras, do you need to know for something you're doing? or are you just curious?
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# [19:33] <jcranmer> sigh
# [19:33] <jcranmer> why is our logic for making shared libraries so complicated?
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# [19:34] <chewey> What has changed in the handling of "transform: rotate()" recently? One of my uses of it has stopped working in recent Geckos (not yet sure when exaclty).
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# [19:35] <chewey> Sort-of-reduced test: http://home.chewey.org/test/rotate.html
# [19:35] <chewey> not that the "hover" still works.
# [19:35] <chewey> *note
# [19:35] <chewey> To see how it is intended, look at it in Opera…
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# [19:36] <@bz> chewey: we updated to follow the spec
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# [19:36] <@bz> chewey: transform is ignored on inlines
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# [19:36] <@bz> chewey: (see also your comment about webkit behavior in the CSS: that's what the spec decided to call for and what we updated to)
# [19:36] <chewey> bz: Oooooh, ok.
# [19:36] <@bz> chewey: your hover applies transform to a block, not an inline
# [19:36] <chewey> Weird an unexpected :-}
# [19:36] <chewey> Thanks!
# [19:37] <chewey> *and
# [19:37] <@bz> chewey: not as weird as what should happen when applying a rotate transform to the span in this:
# [19:37] <@bz> Some <span>text<br>and more</span>
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# [19:37] <Ms2ger> mike5w3c, you around?
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# [19:38] <chewey> bz: Well, nobodoy would ever do that! *hides*
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# [19:38] <Waldo> laugh it up, fuzzball :-P
# [19:39] <Ms2ger> bjacob, didn't we already have a bug for undefined behaviour in CheckedInt?
# [19:39] <edmorley> smaug: I don't believe anyone maintains Try per se
# [19:39] <@bz> chewey: until the text wrapped because he user made the font-size larger.... ;)
# [19:39] <chewey> *pfffp* ;)
# [19:39] <Ms2ger> bz: Well, nobodoy would ever do that!
# [19:39] <chewey> Anyway, thanks again. Fixing CSS now.
# [19:40] <@smaug> edmorley: uh
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# [19:47] <chewey> Ah, I remember now why I applied the rotation to elements at different tree depths: I want the hover rotation to add to the existing, not be absolute. Am I missing an easy solution?
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# [19:47] <bjacob> Ms2ger: i wasn't aware of it?
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# [19:58] <jcranmer> okay, I think I have a HOST_SHARED_LIBRARY target that actually works
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# [19:58] <@khuey> r-
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# [19:59] <Ms2ger> That wasn't even my patch!
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# [19:59] <@khuey> yeah, but new host code is no fun
# [19:59] <froydnj> he's just keeping in practice
# [19:59] <jcranmer> khuey: what, you don't want clang static analysis running on your builds
# [19:59] <jcranmer> ?
# [19:59] <Ms2ger> NO
# [19:59] <@khuey> static analysis is a tool of the devil
# [19:59] <jcranmer> (bug 733873 for the interested)
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# [20:00] <jcranmer> er, waitk not that one
# [20:00] <derf> The devil is known for being tempting.
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# [20:01] <jcranmer> bug 767563
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# [20:01] <froydnj> firebot: bug 767563
# [20:01] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767563 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Build a clang static checker
# [20:01] <@khuey> firebot: insult Ms2ger
# [20:01] <firebot> khuey: Sorry, I've no idea what 'insult Ms2ger' might be.
# [20:01] <Ms2ger> Hah
# [20:01] <@khuey> aw did we turn that off?
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# [20:02] <gps> khuey: Clang's static analysis has identified real bugs. nearly every one of its reports on OS X SDK usage has been valid
# [20:02] <jcranmer> khuey: this one makes NS_MUST_OVERRIDE do something useful
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# [20:02] <gps> I will admit there are plenty of false positives
# [20:02] <@khuey> you people really need to take the things I say less seriously
# [20:03] <Ms2ger> gps, yes, but it will add recipes to Makefile.ins :)
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# [20:03] <jcranmer> gps: this is for things with 0 false positives ;-)
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# [20:03] <Waldo> khuey: so you're always serious, then!
# [20:03] <@khuey> :-P
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# [20:03] <@khuey> touche
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# [20:04] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b7bb7c789131 - Joe Walker - Back out 551ad0863475 and a5a50d13cc85 for test failures
# [20:04] <gps> wait - are you talking about style analysis or actual static code analysis?
# [20:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/38eb0ceba74f - Tim Taubert - merge m-c to fx-team
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# [20:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/551ad0863475 - Joe Walker - Bug 761481 - GCLI help output does not display the first time; r=dcamp
# [20:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b8956522f66c - Paul Rouget - Bug 766999 - In the developer toolbar, the debugger should be named "debugger", not "Script"; r=past,dao,rcampbell
# [20:04] <gps> by the latter I mean clang's built-in static code analyzer
# [20:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/85d44a26763c - Andres Hernandez [:andreshm] - Bug 765729 - New Tab page thumbnails can't be tabbed to r=ttaubert
# [20:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/d9e78d7def12 - Paul Rouget - Bug 763932 - [devtb] Add the right buttons to the Developer Toolbar; r=dao,jwalker,cedricv
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# [20:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/a5a50d13cc85 - Joe Walker - Bug 768150 - The developer toolbar should be preffed on by default for testing on nightly only; r=dcamp
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# [20:04] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/05bd5e010835 - Mihai Sucan - Bug 766812 - Exception in HUDService-content.js when the Web Console is closed during network requests; r=rcampbell
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# [20:05] <gps> either way - more automated checks so reviewers don't have to do menial tasks \o/
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# [20:05] <@khuey> but we all know that checking style is the most important part of code review
# [20:05] * taras wonders where bent went
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# [20:06] <@khuey> taras: he's in barcelona
# [20:06] <@khuey> it's 8 pm
# [20:06] <froydnj> to an event
# [20:06] <jcranmer> gps: I'm building a clang plugin that (automatically, hopefully eventually) gets built and then does static checking on our tree in lieu of the old --enable-static-checking
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# [20:08] <taras> khuey: thanks
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# [20:10] <ketas> anyone have any idea what kind of irc channel and where is suitable for "webdev" talk?
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# [20:12] <Ms2ger> #webdev
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# [20:12] <jcranmer> who "owns" mfbt?
# [20:12] <@khuey> Waldo
# [20:12] <jcranmer> Waldo: ping
# [20:12] <Ms2ger> Why?
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# [20:12] <Waldo> jcranmer: pong
# [20:12] <Waldo> u rang?
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# [20:12] <jcranmer> Waldo: do you have any opinion on moving the NS_STATIC_CHECKING from nscore.h to a mfbt file?
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# [20:13] <padenot> who should I ask to review xpcom registration + a tiny bit of build system ?
# [20:13] <Waldo> jcranmer: sounds reasonable
# [20:13] <edmorley> ehsan: about bug 754804 comment 75 (b-c leaks), dao is your best bet, since he added those checks
# [20:13] <Ms2ger> padenot, khuey
# [20:13] <Waldo> jcranmer: modulo renaming to be consistent with mfbt
# [20:13] <padenot> Ms2ger: he didn't want to help me on the xpcom thingy last time.
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# [20:13] <padenot> and I don't have my french cheese yet.
# [20:13] <jcranmer> Waldo: okay, I need to decide if the stack class checking is worth keeping
# [20:13] <jcranmer> (since I have no #@$!ing clue what NS_OKONHEAP means)
# [20:14] <@khuey> presumably it means heap allocating that class is ok
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# [20:14] <froydnj> it's a trap!
# [20:14] <Ms2ger> 75 struct nsCSSToken {
# [20:14] <Ms2ger> 76 nsAutoString mIdent NS_OKONHEAP;
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# [20:15] <cviecco> Can I use a nsCString to a binary data? is there another recomended class?
# [20:15] <cviecco> store binary data.
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# [20:16] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: I'll assume you'll issue an appropriate smackdown?
# [20:16] * Ms2ger smacks NeilAway down
# [20:16] <NeilAway> mounir++
# [20:17] <@ehsan> edmorley: ok I think he's CCed on the bug, so I'll go back to ignoring that bug ;)
# [20:17] <edmorley> ok ;-)
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# [20:19] <givanica> can anyone help me to find the code (from XHR) that implements the Bookmark Toolbar
# [20:20] <@smaug> XHR?
# [20:20] <@smaug> you mean MXR?
# [20:20] <givanica> sry
# [20:20] <givanica> yep
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# [20:20] <givanica> i need to understand better how to use nsINavBookmarksService
# [20:22] <givanica> i can't find a way to list all the bookmarks from a folder ... or the number of them
# [20:22] <@smaug> based on http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/annotate/b4d033913a03/toolkit/components/places/nsINavBookmarksService.idl dietrich or mak might be able to help you
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# [20:31] <givanica> getItemIndex() , indexOfFolder, IndexOfItem(), and many other functions to access by index a single element ... , just a removeFolderChildren() for multiple intems but no way of finding out the number of items within a folder, or to iterate through them, or there's a solution and I'm not able to see it ...
# [20:32] <givanica> I'm looking here
# [20:32] <givanica> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XPCOM_Interface_Reference/nsINavBookmarksService#getItemIndex%28%29
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# [20:38] <anant> mayhemer: ping
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# [20:38] <mayhemer> anant: pong
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# [20:38] <sawrubh> firebot: seen sid0
# [20:38] <firebot> sid0 was last seen 23 hours, 39 minutes and 59 seconds ago, saying 'bienvenu: heh' in #maildev.
# [20:39] <anant> mayhemer: hi, I was just looking at the implementation of window.applicationcache.mozAdd, and seems like it prevents a https site from adding a http URL to the appcache
# [20:39] <anant> mayhemer: looking for more info on that and to see if there are any ways we can work around it
# [20:39] <mayhemer> anant: yes, that is by spec
# [20:39] <mayhemer> I don't know how to go over this
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# [20:39] <mayhemer> actually, I would like to eventually remove support for mozAdd
# [20:39] <anant> oh, the spec enforces protocol matching?
# [20:39] <mayhemer> dynamic entries are not speced any more
# [20:40] <mayhemer> yes
# [20:40] <anant> mayhemer: it's really useful! there's no other way to dynamically update the appcache
# [20:40] <Ms2ger> anant, why are you enabling mitm attacks again? :)
# [20:40] <anant> Ms2ger: how does that enable it? it's the https site that has to call mozAdd...
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# [20:41] <anant> mayhemer: ok, so looks like there isn't much we can do here… anyway our use case was to be able to cache some images served off a different domain but served over http in our https app
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# [20:41] <anant> I suspect gaia will also run into this at some point, so i'll just try and see what they have planned
# [20:41] <anant> mayhemer: thanks!
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# [20:42] <mayhemer> anant: resources in an offline cache has more or less same-origin policy
# [20:42] <mayhemer> anant: relative to manifest url\
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# [20:43] <anant> mayhemer: oh! but I was able to cache an external resource (different origin)… is it a bug that it was allowed?
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# [20:44] <mayhemer> anant: I said more or less ;)
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# [20:45] <anant> mayhemer: well, good for me, because these images I want to cache are from a different domain :)
# [20:45] <anant> okay, so different domain is allowed, but not different protocol.. that seems odd
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# [20:46] <anant> but since mozAdd is our own method can't we just do whatever we want? since it's not in the spec, how can we be in violation of it if we just allow https sites to cache http resources?
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# [20:46] <mayhemer> anant: I would have to go though the spec again
# [20:47] <mayhemer> anant: just put results of this conversion to the bug and I can later take a look
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# [20:47] <anant> mayhemer: sweet, thanks!
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# [20:57] <nemo> bz: hey. got a minor weirdness
# [20:57] <nemo> bz: http://m8y.org/images/sandy_1280_1024_stripped.svg - I made this years ago. is a desktop background where the photo is an image rotator
# [20:57] <nemo> bz: has always rendered great in firefox
# [20:57] <nemo> I mostly used it to test a webkit rendering bug w/ the stripes
# [20:58] <nemo> bz: the weird thing is now in nightlies rendering that tab is REALLY REALLY slow
# [20:58] <nemo> like, switching to the tab takes 3 or 4 seconds
# [20:58] <nemo> hm. more like 5 seconds
# [20:58] <nemo> you getting same? This is in nightly on my windows XP machine
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# [20:58] <nemo> file bug etc? :)
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# [21:07] <@khuey> what's the thing to tell an nsTArray up front "I want you to be N elements long"?
# [21:07] <Ms2ger> SetCapacity?
# [21:07] <@khuey> EnsureCapacity isn't it
# [21:07] <@khuey> oh, SetCapacity?
# [21:07] * @khuey tries
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# [21:07] <@khuey> sweet
# [21:07] <@khuey> that compiles at least
# [21:08] <Ms2ger> Or an argument to the constructor
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# [21:33] <jdm> nemo: goodness, that is a noticeable lag when switching to the tab
# [21:33] <jdm> not quite 5 seconds
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# [21:33] <jdm> probably worth profiling
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# [21:45] <jdm> oh look, the metrics team has a different bug tracker they use
# [21:45] <Ms2ger> Silly people
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# [21:47] <JonathanS> different bug tracker is for kids
# [21:47] <froydnj> ah, UnblockOnload is firing off all sorts of stuff with useful events still in the queue...
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# [21:53] <edmorley|away> jdm: you're the second person to say that today; presume there is something more visibly linked that both of you have seen? :-)
# [21:53] <jdm> edmorley|away: yeah, a bunch of bugs were updated with links to where the corresponding issue is being tracked
# [21:53] <froydnj> edmorley|away: bunch of telemetry toolkit bugs closed in favor of other bug tracker
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# [21:55] <edmorley|away> jdm, froydnj: ah thank you
# [21:56] <froydnj> jdm: fwiw, some of the metrics folks are talking to lmandel and myself tomorrow about this
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# [21:57] <lmandel> edmorley|away, jdm, froydnj: I would be happy to pass on your specific comments to the metrics team about this shift if you want to fire me something.
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# [21:57] <froydnj> maybe this will help move bugzilla shininess forward </optimism>
# [21:58] <lmandel> I've already heard from jlebar|away about this.
# [21:58] * @bz tries to actually reproduce our most common randomorange
# [21:58] <jdm> bz++
# [21:58] <@khuey> bz: which one would that be
# [21:58] <Ms2ger> lmandel, tell them that if they have issues with bugzilla, that they complain about it rather than running off to a silo of their own?
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# [21:59] * froydnj guesses many people *have* complained, and nothing has happened...
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# [21:59] <Ms2ger> froydnj, well, sure, but were bugs filed?
# [22:00] <lmandel> Ms2ger: thanks. Got it.
# [22:00] <froydnj> Ms2ger: no idea. have seen at least one epic comment thread on yammer
# [22:00] <Ms2ger> Yammer is for jerks
# [22:00] <derf> No, no, they got bought by MS.
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# [22:00] <derf> Now Yammer is for tools.
# [22:01] <mcsmurf> what bug tracker do they use?
# [22:01] <mcsmurf> (link wanted)
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# [22:02] <Ms2ger> mcsmurf, "jira"
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# [22:02] <lmandel> mcsmurf: https://metrics.mozilla.com/projects/secure/Dashboard.jspa
# [22:02] <@khuey> yeah, there was a comment on yammer about how if your project wasn't on bugzilla it wasn't worth doing
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# [22:02] * @khuey enjoyed that
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# [22:03] <Ms2ger> "To request an account, please contact your JIRA administrators."
# [22:03] <@smaug> froydnj: what? telemetry stuff moved to some other bug tracker ?
# [22:03] <Ms2ger> Lovely open culture there
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# [22:03] <Ms2ger> Fire them all
# [22:03] <sawrubh> jdm: see this is what I was talking about :P
# [22:03] <jdm> ha
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# [22:04] <froydnj> smaug: all the data analysis bugs for telemetry, yes
# [22:04] <lmandel> smaug: To be fair, only the server site (metrics) bugs move to Jira. Telemetry toolkit bugs are still in bugzilla.
# [22:04] * @smaug gives up with telemetry
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# [22:05] <Ms2ger> Good I never cared about telemetry
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# [22:05] <lmandel> Ms2ger, smaug: hate to hear that.
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# [22:06] <Ms2ger> lmandel, I hate to hear about people hiding away in hostile silos too
# [22:06] <lmandel> Ms2ger: I hate that too. But metrics != Telemetry.
# [22:07] <lmandel> That's why froydnj and I are talking to the metrics team about this tomorrow.
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# [22:07] <Ms2ger> Thanks :)
# [22:07] <lmandel> Ms2ger: I think this is a fight worth fighting.
# [22:07] <@smaug> certainly
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# [22:09] <@dolske> never give up! never surrender!
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# [22:10] <@khuey> the line must be drawn here!
# [22:10] <@khuey> this far, no farther!
# [22:10] <@khuey> </picard>
# [22:10] <dria> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4pg6Jh94Lo
# [22:11] <WorkerThread> is a nsComPtr<nsiChannel> the same thing as a nsiChannel * ?
# [22:11] <@dolske> we just need to hug our friendly metrics team back into our existing toolset. :)
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# [22:12] <biesi> WorkerThread, mostly, except that it is automatically reference countd
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# [22:13] <jdm> WorkerThread: nsCOMPtr is a smart pointer, like the STL's shared_ptr
# [22:13] <nemo> jdm: so. whats the profile say?
# [22:14] <WorkerThread> my mind = blown that it can be used as a regular pointer without type casting
# [22:14] <nemo> jdm: 'cause it didn't do this before
# [22:14] <jdm> nemo: didn't profile, sorry
# [22:14] <jdm> WorkerThread: there is some deep template magic to make that work
# [22:14] <WorkerThread> Ah yes, that explains it
# [22:14] <WorkerThread> It must take forever to get aquainted with all this code
# [22:15] <@khuey> operator T* ftw
# [22:15] <biesi> jdm, it's mostly an "operator T*"...
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# [22:15] <jdm> biesi: yep, I hyperbolize on occasion
# [22:15] <@bz> define "aquainted"?
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# [22:15] <WorkerThread> Having intimate knowledge of the workings
# [22:15] <@bz> yeah ,that would take forever
# [22:15] <@bz> since the code changes faster than you can learn it. )
# [22:16] <biesi> bz, you seem to manage to keep up :p
# [22:16] <froydnj> for the most part, you just use nsCOMPtr and similar and ignore the workings
# [22:16] <@bz> hell, no
# [22:16] <@bz> I gave up on all the painting/layers/etc stuff
# [22:16] <@bz> and most of networking
# [22:16] * @bz retrenched to dom and layout
# [22:16] <@bz> and even then, font inflation, wut?
# [22:16] <biesi> hmm, I suppose that's fair
# [22:16] * biesi has no idea what font inflatoin is
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# [22:18] <@bz> it's something for mobile
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# [22:18] <@bz> where we increase font sizes automagically for something
# [22:18] <@bz> somewhere
# [22:18] <@bz> you can tell how much I know about it. ;)
# [22:18] <biesi> hm interesting
# [22:18] <biesi> heh
# [22:18] <@khuey> didn't you review it?
# [22:18] <@khuey> or was that roc
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# [22:21] <jdm> // XXX: This cast will be removed by the next patch
# [22:21] <jdm> nice
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# [22:22] <@bz> khuey: that was roc
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# [22:25] * @bz has test failures, yay!
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# [22:25] <philor> woo!
# [22:25] <edmorley|away> khuey++
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# [22:25] <froydnj> pffft, I have those too
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# [22:26] <@khuey> edmorley|away: hmm?
# [22:26] <wsmwk> how to force a changed omni.jar / browser.jar to load on linux? (without recompiling)
# [22:26] <edmorley|away> khuey: quote above :-)
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# [22:27] <@khuey> ah, yes
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# [22:28] <@bz> philor: well, I added logging
# [22:28] <@bz> philor: then tried to reproduce a randomorange
# [22:28] <@bz> philor: and it reproduced!
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# [22:29] * @bz now hopes the log is useful
# [22:29] <@bsmedberg> what exactly does "74D3887E test byte ptr [ebp-24h],0F0h" mean in disassembly
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# [22:29] <froydnj> do [ebp-24] & 0xf0 and set flags
# [22:29] <edmorley|away> bz: bug # ?
# [22:30] <@bz> edmorley|away: 558220
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# [22:30] <froydnj> bsmedberg: usually to branch on whether ^ is 0 or not
# [22:31] <@bsmedberg> froydnj: what about "byte"?
# [22:32] <derf> bsmedberg: That's telling you how much data it is loading from [ebp-24h]
# [22:32] <@bz> bsmedberg: that just reads a single byte from the memory address
# [22:32] <@bsmedberg> ok
# [22:32] <edmorley|away> bz: thank you :-)
# [22:32] <@bz> edmorley|away: it was at the top of the list
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# [22:33] <@bz> edmorley|away: now I just need to figure out what the hell is going on...
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# [22:34] * sawrubh is getting scared of bz's comment
# [22:34] <sawrubh> bz: do you mean painting/layer/* is scary ?
# [22:35] <@bz> sawrubh: no, just that I don't know that code
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# [22:36] <coop> we're planning to reset the try repo later tonight: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768622
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# [22:38] <froydnj> aha, SimpleTest.executeSoon is my undoing
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# [22:38] <philor> and lest you've forgotten, that means anything you've pushed to Try will disappear at 8pm, and you want to look at it before then
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# [22:39] <@khuey> except that you can't look at it now
# [22:39] <@khuey> ironic, eh?
# [22:39] <philor> (unless you like digging through the logs on ftp.m.o)
# [22:39] <@bz> yeah
# [22:39] <@bz> 8pm tonight
# [22:39] * @bz pushes to try again and hopes
# [22:39] <@bz> 8pm is a long ways off
# [22:39] <philor> only 666 pending jobs
# [22:40] <mcsmurf> :O
# [22:40] <Wes> that's the first time I've seen 666 and jobs used in a sentence not-on-slashdot
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# [22:42] <jdm> huh, I could have sworn thatI pushed to try last night
# [22:42] <@bz> philor: I only care about Android jobs here. ;)
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# [23:09] <devd> bz: What will happen here: <script>...some code</script>...browser replaces principal with null... <script>.. new code..</script>. Can new code call the previous code ? I just talked to jst and he suggested pinging you
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# [23:11] <jdm> dolske: ping for a reply to the last comment in bug 723004?
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# [23:12] <jdm> sawrubh: do you mind if I work on bug 723002?
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# [23:12] <@bz> devd: browser replaces the principal of what?
# [23:12] <@bz> devd: are the scripts on the same page?
# [23:12] <sawrubh> jdm: np, go ahead
# [23:13] <jdm> cool
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# [23:13] <devd> bz: yup
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# [23:13] <@bz> devd: ok. why is the browser changing the principal of a page that's partially loaded?
# [23:13] <devd> so browser replaces principal of the page (or is it channel) ... basically what a <iframe sandbox does
# [23:14] <devd> bz: if we decide to support CSP via a meta tag
# [23:14] <@bz> devd: You can't do this
# [23:14] <@bz> devd: basically
# [23:14] <devd> (I can test this, but my understanding is this code is under a lot of flux right now)
# [23:14] <@bz> devd: replace the principal of a document with stuff already in it
# [23:14] <@bz> devd: so the deal is...
# [23:15] <devd> bz: why ?
# [23:15] <@bz> devd: JSScripts have a principal baked in
# [23:15] <@bz> devd: "because it violates invariants things depend on"?
# [23:15] <@bz> devd: because that principal has already been used for things?
# [23:15] <devd> yup .. what are the invariants
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# [23:15] <@bz> devd: the main invariant involved is that there is a single principal per compartment
# [23:15] <tanvi> do mochitests create a new firefox profile for each run?
# [23:15] <devd> my understanding was that compartments have principals baked in
# [23:16] * bhearsum is now known as bhearsum|afk
# [23:16] <@bz> devd: compartments do too, but that's mutable
# [23:16] <@bz> devd: but each JS function has it baked in too
# [23:16] <@bz> devd: and each toplevel script
# [23:16] <@bz> devd: and also, stylesheets, images
# [23:16] <devd> ok .. so then the first script block will have the principal, the second script block will have the new null principal ?
# [23:16] <@bz> devd: subframes
# [23:17] <@bz> devd: what are you actually trying to do?
# [23:17] <devd> bz: I suspect you already know what CSP is
# [23:17] <@bz> devd: basically, changing what the nsIPrincipal* of a document points to without blowing away everything in the document first is likely to be broken in all sorts of ways
# [23:17] * @bz has a general idea, yes
# [23:17] <devd> bz: the new spec calls for supporting CSP via a meta tag
# [23:17] <@bz> which means what, in practice?
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# [23:17] <@bz> what happens if there is content before the <meta> tag?
# [23:18] <jdm> firebot: uuid
# [23:18] <firebot> e3f772f3-023f-4b32-b074-36cf0fd5d414 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
# [23:18] <jdm> firebot: uuid
# [23:18] <firebot> f7d27721-205b-4186-aef5-221e668dd278 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
# [23:18] <devd> bz: a CSP policy can have a sandbox flag
# [23:18] <devd> saying document should run in a null principal
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# [23:18] <@bz> that doesn't answer my question
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# [23:19] <@bz> let me make it concrete
# [23:19] <devd> and I want to support that
# [23:19] <@bz> <html><iframe/><meta></html>
# [23:19] <@bz> What should the principal of the iframe be?
# [23:19] <@bz> (note that the iframe comes _before_ the meta)
# [23:20] <devd> I am more interested in the <html><script><meta>..
# [23:20] <@bz> sure
# [23:20] <devd> we can leave principal for iframe undefined
# [23:20] <@bz> it's the same issue
# [23:20] <@bz> no, we can't
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# [23:20] <@bz> because you can throw a <script> into the frme
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# [23:20] <@bz> which will then run with the principal of the frame
# [23:20] <@bz> so ....
# [23:20] <devd> doesn't the iframe run in a separate thing of its own
# [23:20] <devd> its principal is defined by its src value
# [23:20] <@bz> not if it's about:blank
# [23:20] <devd> <iframe src="foo.com" has a foo.com principal ?
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# [23:21] <@bz> then it aliases the main-page principal
# [23:21] <@bz> as in, has the same nsIPrincipal*
# [23:21] <@bz> as the main page
# [23:21] <@bz> but you want to change that for the main page...
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# [23:21] <@bz> does the frame keep the old one, or get the new one?
# [23:21] <@bz> it's just like the <script> thing
# [23:21] <devd> keep the old one
# [23:21] <@bz> why?
# [23:21] <@bz> does the spec say that?
# [23:22] <@bz> And if so, how is that not a vulnerability?
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# [23:22] <devd> I think the model is .."CSP is too hard to implement. So first, we do all the sorts of bad behavior to get the app ready, and then lock things down"
# [23:22] <@dolske> jdm: done
# [23:22] <devd> (with a meta tag)
# [23:22] <jdm> thanks!
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# [23:22] <devd> the spec, afaik, doesn't say anything right now
# [23:22] <@bz> devd: well, that should clearly get fixed. ;)
# [23:23] <devd> it pushes things of to other specs
# [23:23] <devd> for example, what does the html5 spec say for about:blank frames
# [23:23] <@bz> devd: so to answer your original question, the scripts will be able to call each other
# [23:23] <@bz> devd: since they're same-compartment
# [23:23] <@bz> devd: and they will have different principals
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# [23:23] <@bz> devd: for about:blank frames it says they alias the parent
# [23:23] <@bz> devd: let me get you a link
# [23:23] <devd> bz: aliases the parent at creation time or always
# [23:24] <@bz> devd: the html5 spec assumes the origin of a document is immutable
# [23:24] <@bz> devd: so the issue does not arise
# [23:24] * philor|away is now known as philor
# [23:24] <devd> bz: ok .. so the code before meta can do document.cookie, the after meta can't do document.cookie, but if code before meta defines a function foo that calls document.cookie, then it might work ?
# [23:25] <devd> devd: hmm .. I guess the CSP spec needs to be fixed then ?
# [23:25] <@bz> Actually...
# [23:25] <@bz> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/browsers.html#about-blank-origin
# [23:25] * @bz thinks the spec needs work
# [23:25] <@bz> but whatever
# [23:25] <devd> Actually ?
# [23:25] <devd> yup .. it says at creation time, right
# [23:25] <@bz> seel ink
# [23:25] * @bz sends spec comments
# [23:25] <devd> so it will be depend on whether about:blank comes before or after the meta
# [23:26] <@bz> devd: that's broken
# [23:26] <@bz> devd: this whole thing sounds broken to me
# [23:26] <devd> what is ?
# [23:26] <@bz> devd: the CSP meta thing
# [23:26] <devd> well.. without the sandbox directive, it is pretty clean
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# [23:26] <@bz> devd: well, sure
# [23:27] <@bz> devd: I meant the sandbox thing
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# [23:27] <@bz> devd: So we _could_ make it work in our impl
# [23:27] <@bz> devd: but not with the behavior you just described
# [23:27] <devd> what would be the behavior ?
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# [23:28] <@bz> we would just have a way to tell an existing nsIPrincipal* to "be null"
# [23:28] <@bz> without changing what object it points to
# [23:28] <@bz> so that all the places that have that pointer backed in get updated automatically
# [23:28] <devd> yeah .. that is another disaster though
# [23:28] <@bz> This would correspond to changing the origin in spec terms
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# [23:29] <@bz> because all aliases would follow such a change
# [23:29] <@bz> and for things like scripts...
# [23:29] <devd> I was talking to jst, and he talked about how e.g., XHR (according to his recollection) cached the origin at object construction
# [23:29] <@bz> "
# [23:29] <@bz> The origin and effective script origin of a script are determined from another resource, called the owner:"
# [23:29] <@bz> it caches the nsIPrincipal*
# [23:29] <@bz> right?
# [23:29] <@bz> if it caches a string origin, it would need to get fixed
# [23:30] <@bz> "If a script is in a script element
# [23:30] <@bz> The owner is the Document to which the script element belongs."
# [23:30] <devd> hmm .... ok
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# [23:30] <@bz> So per spec if the origin of the document were to get changed, the origin of all scripts hanging off the document would change too
# [23:30] <devd> so that would be the right way, following the spec
# [23:30] <devd> to just add a "setToNull" to nsIPrincipal ?
# [23:30] <@bz> well, you'd need to implement it somehow
# [23:31] <devd> why would it be hard?
# [23:31] * @bz shrugs
# [23:31] <gavin> philor: bug 758990 looks like it needs some beta/aurora love - want me to pick that up?
# [23:31] <@bz> because people are idiots and do all sorts of weird with principals?
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# [23:31] <@bz> I guess you can basically create an nsNullPrincipal inside and forward everything to it
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# [23:31] <@bz> that might work
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# [23:32] <devd> yeah
# [23:33] <devd> basically, as long as people aren't using pointer comparisons to compare principals
# [23:33] * @bz still think this thing is just security Theater
# [23:33] <devd> which I suspect is a bug in itself
# [23:33] <@bz> oh, that's used too
# [23:33] <devd> the behavior of null principals is very well defined right
# [23:33] <@bz> e.g. a principal is always same-origin with itself
# [23:33] <@bz> pointer-identity
# [23:33] <devd> ohh yeah that is fine
# [23:33] <@bz> even if the URI is not equal to itself for security purposes
# [23:33] <devd> well hmm
# [23:33] <devd> if they cache things
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# [23:34] <@bz> here's a better question for you
# [23:34] <sewardj> vlad: ping
# [23:34] <@bz> What's supposed to happen when I document.write such a <meta> tag?
# [23:34] <@bz> into a document that I'm clearly same-origin with to start with....
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# [23:34] <@bz> does my next write() call fail?
# [23:34] <devd> what about access to things ? The initial code gets window.top.secretobject (which was allowed since it was same origin).. who will invalidate that pointer
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# [23:35] <@bz> nothing invalidates it
# [23:35] <devd> bz: yes ?
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# [23:35] <@bz> devd: that's %$^%^$% broken
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# [23:35] <devd> jst told me that every access across globals is checked
# [23:35] <devd> after teh CPG change
# [23:35] <@bz> devd: jst is wrong
# [23:35] <jst> bz: I am?
# [23:35] <@bz> devd: both in our impl and per spec
# [23:35] <@bz> yes
# [23:36] <@bz> how about we get on vidyo?
# [23:36] <@bz> and talk about this?
# [23:36] <philor> gavin: oh, oops, forgot it was mine, thought it was just a bunch of bounty noise in something I'd backed out at some point
# [23:36] <@bz> both because there are security bugs involved and because my fingers are getting tired? ;)
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# [23:36] <philor> thanks, secureemail!
# [23:36] <gavin> philor: happy to pick it up, I can bug someone for approval; I have another beta bug I need to check in anyways
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# [23:37] <philor> gavin: thanks, awkward part of the week for me to push where I have to watch
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# [23:49] <jorendorff> bsmedberg: bug 761723 would cause us to save function source, replacing the decompiler for func.toString()
# [23:50] <jorendorff> bsmedberg: but, it doesn't work with XDR, so XDR'd functions wouldn't have a working .toString(). Do we care?
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# Session Close: Wed Jun 27 00:00:00 2012

The end :)